Adleman as Spurs O Coordinator

[Fabbs]

I don't know what PJ is/is not allowed by Pop to do, so not dissing PJ.
That said, Adlemans ball movement offense for Spurs I like.

[TDMVPDPOY]

adlemans? the prince? gtfoh

[DirkAB]

After 16 seasons as a head coach and making it to the Finals twice, I'm sure Adelman would really take an assistant position. Retarded.

[RON ARTEST]

are you that stupid? adleman already said hes taking at LEAST a year off and then he will consider coming back to the nba. why the hell would he wanna be an assistant?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It would be a great idea, but Pop's ego would never let it happen.

[ducks]

rick wants a year off
head assistant coach hundreds of thousands of dollars
head coach millions


I think ahf got it right ego would be the problem but not pop's
pj was a head coach

[Fabbs]

It would be a great idea, but Pop's ego would never let it happen.
I'd love to know what PJ is and is not allowed to implement.

[TheSanityAnnex]

It would be a great idea, but Pop's ego would never let it happen.
It would be a horrible idea.

What a stupid fucking idea.


Please tell me which of your bigs would run the offense from the high post?

[strangeweather]

It would be a horrible idea.

What a stupid fucking idea.


Please tell me which of your bigs would run the offense from the high post?
Nazr and Rasho are passing geniuses. You've never seen anyone hit the backdoor cutter like Rasho.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Nazr and Rasho are passing geniuses. You've never seen anyone hit the backdoor cutter like Rasho.
So Nazr and Rasho start? And Duncan sits?
Which guards are going to be playing in the low post? Manu? Bowen?


Sorry, but you don't have the personnel to run the Princeton.


Swap out Duncan with KG and you are on your way.

[strangeweather]

So Nazr and Rasho start? And Duncan sits?
Which guards are going to be playing in the low post? Manu? Bowen?


Sorry, but you don't have the personnel to run the Princeton.


Swap out Duncan with KG and you are on your way.
Sorry. Guess I needed a smiley for that one.

Our personnel doesn't remotely resemble what you need to run the Princeton offense. I'm actually more than a little familiar with it -- I went to school there when Carril was still head coach.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Sorry. Guess I needed a smiley for that one.

Our personnel doesn't remotely resemble what you need to run the Princeton offense. I'm actually more than a little familiar with it -- I went to school there when Carril was still head coach.
I figured you were joking, but I don't know that much about Rasho and Nazr, so I had to take your post seriously.

I don't think the Kings personnel resembles what is needed to run the Princeton. The only princeton guy is Miller. And his ass needs to go.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Please tell me which of your bigs would run the offense from the high post?

Tim.

I don't know if you noticed, but at times we ran the flex this year with Duncan in the high post. Adelman just knows more nuances of that set than Pop, IMO.

[strangeweather]

Tim.

I don't know if you noticed, but at times we ran the flex this year with Duncan in the high post. Adelman just knows more nuances of that set than Pop, IMO.
Your plan is to change the Spurs offense by predicating it on Tim passing out of the high post to create space to post up our guards?

Umm, why?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol

Where did I say change the Spurs offense? Teams run different sets in games, you know.

You really are stupid...

[strangeweather]

Where did I say change the Spurs offense? Teams run different sets in games, you know.
You want to hire Adelman to run our offense, and you said you wanted to move Tim to the high post to do it.

Throw in all the gratuitous insults you want, but to me that sounds an awful lot like you wanted to change our offense to move the best low-post player in basketball to the high post, then backtracked when you realized what you had stepped in. Nice try.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You want to hire Adelman to run our offense, and you said you wanted to move Tim to the high post to do it.

Throw in all the gratuitous insults you want, but to me that sounds an awful lot like you wanted to change our offense to move the best low-post player in basketball to the high post, then backtracked when you realized what you had stepped in. Nice try. :lol

[boutons_]

There's an old guy who has been on Sac's bench for several years, who invented the Princeton offense when we was coach at .... Princeton:

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/pete_carril/index.html?nav=page

I wonder if Pete will stick around with Geoff Petrie now that Adelman is gone. I think Pete was brought in as Geoff's choice for asst coach more than Rick's.

[strangeweather]

There's an old guy who has been on Sac's bench for several years, who invented the Princeton offense when we was coach at .... Princeton:

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/pete_carril/index.html?nav=page

I wonder if Pete will stick around with Geoff Petrie now that Adelman is gone. I think Pete was brought in as Geoff's choice for asst coach more than Rick's.
It probably depends on whether Musselman gets to pick his own staff or not.

Actually, Carril mostly distilled the Princeton offense out of the kind of complex motion sets they used to run back in the 50s -- he just hung onto it and adapted it after everyone else in basketball went to new styles of play. When he was at Princeton, it was rare for even a gifted freshman to win a starting job, because it took kids a year or two to learn all the wrinkles of the offense.

The funniest thing was when he got hired by Sacto and the Princeton offense became part of a running, high-scoring extravaganza. At Princeton, Carril was the kind of coach that would bench guys for shooting when there were more than 8 seconds on the shot clock, and his defenses sometimes had the lowest points allowed in the NCAA.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The Princeton is very strange in and of itself because of the types of players it thrives on. The Princeton offense was basically started to help unathletic or not as talented players compete with more talented teams. It helped by creating a system that relied heavily on basketball IQ, instead of raw talent.


A few years back, when the Kings had the perfect personnel for that system, watching them play was a thing of beauty.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You want to hire Adelman to run our offense, and you said you wanted to move Tim to the high post to do it.

No, I want Adelman to come in and add to our offense. We've already got some good play sets in place, but more diversity wouldn't hurt anything.

I never said I wanted to permanently move Duncan to the high post, just responded to the question of which big man would pass the ball in those types of sets.

THe Spurs already run some flex cut sets where Duncan in the high post, and if you were paying attention this season you would know that. I guess Pop is a dumbfuck too for running some of those play sets already :rolleyes

[TheSanityAnnex]

Aggie-


Are you missing the entire point? Adelman will only run these sets. That is his offense. All ball movement comes from the high post. That means Duncan will be camping out at the top of the key basically making him useless.




Besides, why the fuck would Adelman go from being one of the longest tenured head coaches to be someone's assistant?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Are you missing the entire point? Adelman will only run these sets. That is his offense.

And you're missing the point that we would not be running exclusively Adelman sets. All the assistants have their areas of expertise, his would obviously be offense. I'm talking about taking some of his knowledge of the game, especially some principles of the Princeton offense, and adding them to our playbook.

I'm not saying move Tim Duncan to the high post for the entire game, just in stretches where we want to take advantage of matchups and get Parker and Manu going.

Let's face it - if Pop's serious about changing to small ball, his Tim Duncan-centric low post sets are going to be fewer and farther in between anyway, may as well go out and get a great offensive small ball guy to help the cause.

The other thing is if you move Tim out to the high post a little more in games, that means he's fresher at the end of games when we need him at his strongest. The lasting image of the Spurs season was against Dallas in OT with Diop easily pushing Duncan out of his comfort zone down low because Duncan was so gassed.


Besides, why the fuck would Adelman go from being one of the longest tenured head coaches to be someone's assistant?

Now that, on the other hand, is a valid argument. I agree with you there, I see a team willing to bring him in as their head man, making this whole discussion moot.

But if there's a chance he'd come here as an assistant to help us diversify our offense, that'd be something I hope Pop would consider.

[strangeweather]

And you're missing the point that we would not be running exclusively Adelman sets. All the assistants have their areas of expertise, his would obviously be offense. I'm talking about taking some of his knowledge of the game, especially some principles of the Princeton offense, and adding them to our playbook.
The Princeton offense is kind of like the triangle -- it's complicated, and it takes a ton of time to learn. If we're only going to use it occasionally, that's a tough sell.


Let's face it - if Pop's serious about changing to small ball, his Tim Duncan-centric low post sets are going to be fewer and farther in between anyway, may as well go out and get a great offensive small ball guy to help the cause.
On offense, the main point of small ball was that it sent everyone but Tim out to the perimeter, and left Tim single covered inside most of the time. Tim was amazing out there against Dallas -- he put on a clinic.

We'll continue to have sets where Tim play up in the high post, but I don't think they'll be small ball sets.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I just feel the Princeton is not just something you can incorporate here and there as you are envisioning.

And if you truly wanted to try this, you would have to get Pete Carill (the master of the offense) and Geoff Petrie (the master of finding players for the offense). Adelman is just their Princeton Puppet.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Princeton offense is kind of like the triangle -- it's complicated, and it takes a ton of time to learn. If we're only going to use it occasionally, that's a tough sell.

The Argentinian flex has its roots in the princeton offense, we've run it before.


On offense, the main point of small ball was that it sent everyone but Tim out to the perimeter, and left Tim single covered inside most of the time. Tim was amazing out there against Dallas -- he put on a clinic.

Yeah, and we lost. You can lift Duncan to the top to draw his defender away from the paint and then let Manu, Parker, and Finley score all day.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yeah, and we lost. You can lift Duncan to the top to draw his defender away from the paint and then let Manu, Parker, and Finley score all day.They are not exactly low post players. An example of a guard who excelled in that system would be Bonzi Wells.

You need certain mismatches to make the Princeton work. The reason Duncan wouldn't work is because no one is afraid of his outside shot, so no big would have to follow him out to the top of the key. This makes the Princeton fail if Duncan were to run it.

The reason it works with Brad Miller is a) he is an excellent passer and b) he has an outside shot the opposing big must respect.



This is getting tiring and I'm over it. As long as you have Duncan, there will be no Princeton.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You need certain mismatches to make the Princeton work. The reason Duncan wouldn't work is because no one is afraid of his outside shot, so no big would have to follow him out to the top of the key.

It doesn't have to be a true Princeton. Again, the Spurs have run the flex as part of their offense for the last two years, and I didn't see Duncan raining down three pointers.

Even before Adelman hired Pete Carroll, he always had great offenses. That's just what he's good at. He is to offense what Pop usually is (outside of small ball) to defense.

[strangeweather]

The Argentinian flex has its roots in the princeton offense, we've run it before.
And the Flex works pretty well for us, though it would work better for us if Duncan's jumper from the high post was more consistent. I just have trouble seeing the advantage of bringing in something a lot more complicated like the Princeton, and having a guy like Adelman try to spin off simpler variants of it.


Yeah, and we lost. You can lift Duncan to the top to draw his defender away from the paint and then let Manu, Parker, and Finley score all day.
Yes, we lost. But if you're arguing that one of the keys to the loss was our inability to get points off the drive, you're going to need to explain further, because I'm not following you.

[TheSanityAnnex]

My brain is all princetoned out.

Adelman will not come to Spurs as an assistant.
Duncan is the last guy in the league you'd want running the Princeton with how well he performs in the low post.

End of story.


Please send any more comments to my secretary MelMart1.

[picnroll]

They are not exactly low post players. An example of a guard who excelled in that system would be Bonzi Wells.

You need certain mismatches to make the Princeton work. The reason Duncan wouldn't work is because no one is afraid of his outside shot, so no big would have to follow him out to the top of the key. This makes the Princeton fail if Duncan were to run it.

The reason it works with Brad Miller is a) he is an excellent passer and b) he has an outside shot the opposing big must respect.



This is getting tiring and I'm over it. As long as you have Duncan, there will be no Princeton.
Not than I'm fan of the Princeton offense orwould want the Spurs to run it but didpeople fear Vlade's outside shot?

[DirkAB]

Using Duncan in the Princeton would be absolutely retarded, you would be taking away the biggest stregnth of his game, his post moves. The dude has the best footwork in the game, it makes him as tough as anybody in the game to guard when his back is to the basket. To put him in a system that would have him facing up 95% of the game is beyond stupidity.

[DirkAB]

Not than I'm fan of the Princeton offense orwould want the Spurs to run it but didpeople fear Vlade's outside shot?

Are you kidding? For a center Vlade had a great shot from 15 ft. on out.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Not than I'm fan of the Princeton offense orwould want the Spurs to run it but didpeople fear Vlade's outside shot?Yes. That is why he gave Shaq problems.

[picnroll]

Didn't know that. Tome he seemed a streaky outside shooter. Never liked the Princeton because it inverted you getting back on D.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Didn't know that. Tome he seemed a streaky outside shooter. Never liked the Princeton because it inverted you getting back on D.
That probably helped the Kings because Vlade was slow as hell.

[Fabbs]

No, I want Adelman to come in and add to our offense. We've already got some good play sets in place, but more diversity wouldn't hurt anything.

I never said I wanted to permanently move Duncan to the high post, just responded to the question of which big man would pass the ball in those types of sets.

THe Spurs already run some flex cut sets where Duncan in the high post, and if you were paying attention this season you would know that. I guess Pop is a dumbfuck too for running some of those play sets already :rolleyes

Exactly. As if by bringing in Adleman he would have to run the exact same offense as in Sactown. The point is to add ball movement and divercity. Blockheads who are stuck in "4 Down forever" just don't get it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

To put him in a system that would have him facing up 95% of the game is beyond stupidity.

Beyond stupidity is sucking so bad at reading comprehension you can't figure out that no one is saying run the Princeton offense 100% of the time.

I really don't know how many more ways there is to say it. Bringing in Adelman would be a move to add to and enhance our offensive playbook, not scrap what we have and go to the Sacto offense 100% of the time.

[SPARKY]

Spurs need to put Duncan where AHF believes he can best be utilized:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040227/040227_timDuncan_vmed_2p.widec.jpg

[SPARKY]

Anyways, the reason the Spurs are out of the playoffs was their defense, not their offense. I'm still not sure why AHF is on a jihad to stop the Spurs from putting the league's best post player in the post. Pretty stupid. But it's AHF so what can you do?

[Mavschick]

Bobcats GM/coach Bernie Bickerstaff is under contract through '08-'09 but I bet he gives up the coaching job after this season because CHA will eventually want to find a coach who could take them beyond the expansion-team stage of development. Adelman might be intrigued because the Bobcats have a young-Mike Bibby-like highly intelligent PG in Felton, a young-Chris Webber-like good rebounding and shot-blocking big man in Emeka (although he has a ways to go if he wants to acquire Webbers' shooting range and variety of post moves), a young-Divac-like C with good shooting range in Brezec, a young-Doug-Christie-like athletic swingman in G. Wallace, and a nice assortment of young and hungry role players. Adelman might be able to successfully install his Princeton offence in CHA because the majority of the players on the roster are intelligent and athletic. Another consistent long-range shooter acquired via the draft or FA to fill a swingman spot and CHA could have all the ingredients with which Adelman could whip into an offensive juggernaut.

[Trainwreck2100]

Adleman as Spurs O Coordinator

Right after they hire a passing coach, you fuckers really can't wait till football season can you.

[RON ARTEST]

Bobcats GM/coach Bernie Bickerstaff is under contract through '08-'09 but I bet he gives up the coaching job after this season because CHA will eventually want to find a coach who could take them beyond the expansion-team stage of development. Adelman might be intrigued because the Bobcats have a young-Mike Bibby-like highly intelligent PG in Felton, a young-Chris Webber-like good rebounding and shot-blocking big man in Emeka (although he has a ways to go if he wants to acquire Webbers' shooting range and variety of post moves), a young-Divac-like C with good shooting range in Brezec, a young-Doug-Christie-like athletic swingman in G. Wallace, and a nice assortment of young and hungry role players. Adelman might be able to successfully install his Princeton offence in CHA because the majority of the players on the roster are intelligent and athletic. Another consistent long-range shooter acquired via the draft or FA to fill a swingman spot and CHA could have all the ingredients with which Adelman could whip into an offensive juggernaut.
i doubt he would go to a team that young and bad.

[RON ARTEST]

There's an old guy who has been on Sac's bench for several years, who invented the Princeton offense when we was coach at .... Princeton:

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/pete_carril/index.html?nav=page

I wonder if Pete will stick around with Geoff Petrie now that Adelman is gone. I think Pete was brought in as Geoff's choice for asst coach more than Rick's.
no pete said hes going back to new jersey with his family. if he coaches somewhere he said it would be in the east coast.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm still not sure why AHF is on a jihad to stop the Spurs from putting the league's best post player in the post. Pretty stupid. But it's AHF so what can you do?

Hey, Pop's the one who said we need to embrace small ball, I'm just going with the flow.

[SPARKY]

"Small ball" doesn't preclude going to TD in the post. The Spurs problems this offseason were due to the lack of a big alongside TD who could play out on the floor.

Self-inflicted.

[DirkAB]

Beyond stupidity is sucking so bad at reading comprehension you can't figure out that no one is saying run the Princeton offense 100% of the time.

I really don't know how many more ways there is to say it. Bringing in Adelman would be a move to add to and enhance our offensive playbook, not scrap what we have and go to the Sacto offense 100% of the time.

Well, as somebody else already pointed out earlier in this thread, specifically to you, the Princeton offense isn't just an offense that you add to your playbook. It is the offense you base your whole system around, if you run it, you run it virtually all the time. You can't just add it as an offensive set that you run when it is convenient. It is a very complicated system that takes a long time for players to adapt to, and that is when they play it full-time. It would be more than counterproductive to try and bring it in on a part-time system, it would never work.

So you should go back and read the thread again before you point fingers at anybody for a lack of comprehension. Stupid fuck.