What happened?

[himat]

I'm so damn confused right now. What happened to the Pistons? Thsi team looked unstoppable and out of nowhere it all just ended. This was supposed to be a year where the Pistons proved wrong again. I'm going to be confused for the next 5 months till next season. Spurs lost too but I know they'l be great next year as for the Pistons I have no damn clue anymore.

[Brutalis]

It's simple bro.

Detroit and San Antonio Finals makes the NBA and Stern zero money.

While a hot tempered Mavericks team, a Shaq led Heat team will make the NBA and Stern tons of money.

I never thought the bullshit of the NBA would carry over into the playoffs.

And BTW, I think Miami got BS'd last year against DET in the ECF's. And DET getting fucked in this years ECF's was just right. Payback, karma call it whatever.

[ALVAREZ6]

I have no idea what happened to the Pistons, but what I do know is the Spurs got jobbed.

[Mavs_man_41]

I have no idea what happened to the Pistons, but what I do know is the Spurs got jobbed.

go kill yourself

[Shank]

Brutalis is the epitome of why everyone thinks Spurs fans are a bunch of whining bitches.

(Awaiting his comeback as to what everyone thinks Mavs fans are.)

[Marklar MM]

The Pistons forgot how to put the ball into the basket is basically all that needs to be said.

[JamStone]

Get a grip, himat.

The Pistons played poorly, and the Heat were the better team. It's not always about destiny or being on a mission to prove everyone wrong. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

The Heat played better. And, when your team gets beat, suck it up and roll with it.

You can cry about conspiracies or officiating or bad coaching all you want. It won't change the outcome. Pistons were just not good enough this year.

[texlawman]

What happened was the better teams advanced. Catch some fish and try again next year. :fro

[SPARKY]

Maybe the Heat won't be the cakewalk everyone seems to expect in the Finals.

[Burn531]

go kill yourself

:lol Mavs fans don't wanna hear anything about the Spurs being jobbed.

[himat]

Get a grip, himat.

The Pistons played poorly, and the Heat were the better team. It's not always about destiny or being on a mission to prove everyone wrong. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

The Heat played better. And, when your team gets beat, suck it up and roll with it.

You can cry about conspiracies or officiating or bad coaching all you want. It won't change the outcome. Pistons were just not good enough this year.

Sure the heat played better, but all this came out of nowhere and it leaves you confused. We don't know how this team lost it at the end. When the Pistons lost to the Spurs I knew that we'd be good the next year, but don't tell me the Pistons future isn't foggy looking right now. I have no clue what we'll see next season.

[Darrin]

Flip Saunders can't coach. He doesn't establish a rotation, he doesn't play his bench (even when capable) and he can't make adjustments. People seem to be baffled by this, but Larry Brown did an exceptional job with these Pistons, and the inmates started running the asylum.

He doesn't want the Pistons to go for blocked shots because they gamble out of position. But without the threat of a shot being blocked, including gametape for tendencies, less shots are altered, and that leads to higher field goal percentages. He's been junking up the offense, he obviously took some pride in regular season accomplishments, and he's played as much in the NBA, studied as much under the best in this business as I have.

This is important because there's some criteria for being a Pistons coach:

- Play in the NBA/ABA (George Irvine, Doug Collins, Don Chaney, Rick Carlisle)
and/or:
- Study under Chuck Daly (Ron Rothstein, Rick Carlisle)
- Study under Larry Brown (Alvin Gentry)
- Be either Chuck Daly (1983-1992) or Larry Brown (2003-2005).

In that time, the Pistons have won over 1,000 games, had 17 winning seasons, made 8 Conference Finals, 5 NBA Finals, and won 3 NBA Championships.

Flip Saunders is not included in any of that because he's the first coach to not have played in this league or coached under Brown or Daly since Scotty Robertson.

What's so baffling is that Flip Saunders' has people believing that Ben Wallace is washed up. He allowed the Pistons to remove all the "useless" parts of Brown's system. The parts that kept them sharp for the postseason.

This was a bad coaching job all the way around. And I don't want to hear that we didn't see this kind of complaining before - the Pistons didn't have a stretch of bad games until the playoffs. Seasons are judged around here by what goes on in the playoffs. So if he doesn't have them prepared to play well into June, I'm not going to shut up about the things I saw in the regular season that he just let slide.

[JamStone]

Sure the heat played better, but all this came out of nowhere and it leaves you confused. We don't know how this team lost it at the end. When the Pistons lost to the Spurs I knew that we'd be good the next year, but don't tell me the Pistons future isn't foggy looking right now. I have no clue what we'll see next season.


Came out of nowhere?

It came out in the Cleveland series. It was essentially a 12 game pattern. The offense struggled.

What do you mean we didn't know how this team lost it at the end? Shots were not falling down. Rasheed was not 100% and him not being 100% took away a lot of counters away from the offense and effectiveness on defense. While it's not an excuse, it is certainly a reason. Sheed made defenses spread the floor and created easier opportunities for Rip, Tayshaun and Chauncey. Sheed on defense allowed Ben to roam without having to help out too much. When Sheed got hurt, his effectiveness at both ends went down dramatically. Again, not an excuse. But, there's your reason.It's why Rasheed is the most important key to the success of this team. It's what won the 2004 NBA title. For as much as Pistons fans want to blame Rasheed for a lot of things, he is the main reason why this team has been as good as it has for the last two and a half seasons. There's your reason. That's why this team lost it.

Now, you compound that with other factors like Chauncey hitting a slump and Flip being outcoached, and Ben being upset with his involvement in the offense, and then you get a better idea of WHAT HAPPENED.

It wasn't expected. It was still surprising. But, that's what happened.

And, no, next year the Pistons probably won't be as good as it was the last 2-3 years. Much of its success was due in part to its confidence and its intimidation of other teams. Much of that luster is gone. Teams are not as afraid of the Pistons. And, teams are getting better.

But, there should not be a huge drop-off. Next year, the Miami Heat should be the only team that will be arguably better than the Pistons. While Cleveland and New Jersey and maybe Washington will be closer to the Pistons in terms of talent and quality, the Pistons should still be better than those teams. And, if there are some good moves/changes to the personnel for Detroit, perhaps the Pistons will still be where they need to be in terms of contending.

The Pistons won't be the favorites for the title, and probably not the favorites even in the Eastern Conference, but they shouldn't be bad.

[1Parker1]

Pistons were just not good enough this year.

:wtf No good enough this year? They won 64 regular season games, they had 4 All Stars, they could have beat the Heat had they played Pistons ball (or at least kept it closer). Problem for the Pistons was a bad combination of Billups/Rasheed disapearing, an already thin bench looking thinner, a coach incapable of rallying his team and making appropriate substitutions and adjustments, and most importantly I think all those minutes Flip played on your starters finally caught up with them...especially since he decided not to use anyone not named Hunter or McDyess from your bench.

[MadDog73]

Game 6 was awful. I mean, I thought the Spurs shot bad at times, but weren't the Pistons shooting less than 30%?

There was one stretch where nothing was going in, no free throws, no three pointers, no slams, nothing. Pistons would get 3-4 rebounds at a time, and still not score.

You just can't win if that happens. I don't think any other explanation is necessary.

[Vizzini]

Get a grip, himat.

The Pistons played poorly, and the Heat were the better team. It's not always about destiny or being on a mission to prove everyone wrong. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

The Heat played better. And, when your team gets beat, suck it up and roll with it.

You can cry about conspiracies or officiating or bad coaching all you want. It won't change the outcome. Pistons were just not good enough this year.

Amen! The Heat had the hustle, the passion, the desire. The Pistons got beat by a better team this year. Simple enough. They (Pistons) are not over and done with, there will be no balls out to get the 8th seed in the playoffs next year. There will be no moral victories for having the first round series go to six games and getting the extra revenue from that. If you would've told me three years ago from this date that the Pistons would have one title, another Finals appearence, and another ECF apperance, I would've taken it in a heartbeat. They have to get their swagger back, their mojo if you will. This defeat will do more than last year's ever could. Their will be no "they just came up short" or "if game 7 would've been at the Palace" to lull them into a false sense of security. There are no excuses. They couldn't make a jump shot to save themselves, they couldn't force play away from the paint, and they couldn't adjust when the game dictated that they should. These are things that they must work on, and they will, with judgement coming in a year from now.

[JamStone]

:wtf No good enough this year? They won 64 regular season games, they had 4 All Stars, they could have beat the Heat had they played Pistons ball (or at least kept it closer). Problem for the Pistons was a bad combination of Billups/Rasheed disapearing, an already thin bench looking thinner, a coach incapable of rallying his team and making appropriate substitutions and adjustments, and most importantly I think all those minutes Flip played on your starters finally caught up with them...especially since he decided not to use anyone not named Hunter or McDyess from your bench.


Not good enough this year.

If your team doesn't win it all, they were not good enough this year.

And, how many times do both Pistons fans and Spurs fans talk about how the regular season means nothing compared to the playoffs. While it's important in order to get prepared for the playoffs and also for playoff seeding, championship caliber teams know that the playoffs is where a team proves it's mettle and worth. In 2004, the Minnesota Timberwolves were not good enough even though they had the league's best record. Same thing this year with the Pistons. When it counted, the Pistons were simply not good enough.

There is plenty of blame to go around. And, Flip shares in it. Chauncey shares it. Ben shares it. But, I will still contend that the main and overriding reason the Pistons failed to make it back to the NBA Finals is Rasheed's ankle. Some reports have said Rasheed's ankle was as bad as a twist as Tim Duncan's last year in Detroit. Timmy sat out several weeks. Rasheed did not miss a game. Heck, he returned in the game in which he twisted it. Pistons insiders said Rasheed was never better than 70% after spraining his ankle in the Cleveland series.

And, it showed.

He didn't have a standout game after that incident. He had a couple of good games. But, he was never dominating. He lost so much lateral movement that Antoine Walker was blowing by him off the dribble and when Ben collapsed to help, Shaq would get another dunk. His footing was not strong enough in the post so he could not get the strength of his base to get great post position even against the smaller Udonis Haslem. His lift on his jumper was nowhere near what it usually was and his jumpshot was off the rest of the playoffs.

There is a lot of blame to go around. There was some dissension in the lockerroom. Chauncey had a very poor playoff performance. Ben's free throw shooting made spinning on your head look easy.

But, make Rasheed 100%, and I think the Pistons make the Miami series much more competitive. Give the Pistons a 100% Rasheed, and the Pistons finish the Cavaliers off in five games. I'm pretty sure both games 4 and 5 were two points games.

Maybe the Pistons don't beat the Miami Heat anyway. The Heat played very well and were extremely hungry. But, a completely healthy Rasheed would have made a difference. Maybe they win game 1. Or, maybe he helps them steal game 4 in Miami.

But, just like Wade's rib last year, injuries are a part of the game. It's not an excuse. It's just an explanation.

[Vizzini]

Not good enough this year.

If your team doesn't win it all, they were not good enough this year.

And, how many times do both Pistons fans and Spurs fans talk about how the regular season means nothing compared to the playoffs. While it's important in order to get prepared for the playoffs and also for playoff seeding, championship caliber teams know that the playoffs is where a team proves it's mettle and worth. In 2004, the Minnesota Timberwolves were not good enough even though they had the league's best record. Same thing this year with the Pistons. When it counted, the Pistons were simply not good enough.

There is plenty of blame to go around. And, Flip shares in it. Chauncey shares it. Ben shares it. But, I will still contend that the main and overriding reason the Pistons failed to make it back to the NBA Finals is Rasheed's ankle. Some reports have said Rasheed's ankle was as bad as a twist as Tim Duncan's last year in Detroit. Timmy sat out several weeks. Rasheed did not miss a game. Heck, he returned in the game in which he twisted it. Pistons insiders said Rasheed was never better than 70% after spraining his ankle in the Cleveland series.

And, it showed.

He didn't have a standout game after that incident. He had a couple of good games. But, he was never dominating. He lost so much lateral movement that Antoine Walker was blowing by him off the dribble and when Ben collapsed to help, Shaq would get another dunk. His footing was not strong enough in the post so he could not get the strength of his base to get great post position even against the smaller Udonis Haslem. His lift on his jumper was nowhere near what it usually was and his jumpshot was off the rest of the playoffs.

There is a lot of blame to go around. There was some dissension in the lockerroom. Chauncey had a very poor playoff performance. Ben's free throw shooting made spinning on your head look easy.

But, make Rasheed 100%, and I think the Pistons make the Miami series much more competitive. Give the Pistons a 100% Rasheed, and the Pistons finish the Cavaliers off in five games. I'm pretty sure both games 4 and 5 were two points games.

Maybe the Pistons don't beat the Miami Heat anyway. The Heat played very well and were extremely hungry. But, a completely healthy Rasheed would have made a difference. Maybe they win game 1. Or, maybe he helps them steal game 4 in Miami.

But, just like Wade's rib last year, injuries are a part of the game. It's not an excuse. It's just an explanation.


The Pistons had a legit chance to win every game in this series. Miami took it from them and were the better team when it mattered most.

[tlongII]

Basically I thought the Pistons embarrassed themselves in the Miami series. They didn't even show up. It was sickening to see them rush over to hug all of the Miami players after each of their losses as well.

[1Parker1]

^Agreed, Pistons definitely didn't show up and didn't even look like they thought they had a chance in Game 6.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol..it was a gift they decided to let shaq get another ring

[MadDog73]

^Agreed, Pistons definitely didn't show up and didn't even look like they thought they had a chance in Game 6.


The sad thing is, they actually looked like they started playing with about 2 minutes left... too late.

The sad thing is, they were obviously hustling on the boards, but just couldn't buy a bucket.

[Odogg]

The only reason they lost that will matter in the future. Forget all that jump shooting, FT%,injury nonsense.

Pistons - Larry Brown. Dumars needs to fire Flip and get Brown back to Detroit where he belongs by any means necessary. Otherwise, in 2 more years, the Pistons transformation to the dysfunctional, underachieving Timberwolves will be complete.

[mike detroit]

The only reason they lost that will matter in the future. Forget all that jump shooting, FT%,injury nonsense.

Pistons - Larry Brown. Dumars needs to fire Flip and get Brown back to Detroit where he belongs by any means necessary. Otherwise, in 2 more years, the Pistons transformation to the dysfunctional, underachieving Timberwolves will be complete.


imho, that ship has sailed. Brown's not coming back.

[Odogg]

Well then Detroit is done, period.

[mike detroit]

Well then Detroit is done, period.

in fairness, this is the first really dissapointing season they've had in 4 years. If it's all the same to you, I think I'll wait to see how they respond to it before turning in my season tickets.
:smokin

[JamStone]

They said Detroit was done even after the year they won the title in 2004.

They said they were done after last year.

They might not be as good as the last couple years. But, they are not going to just go away. They'll still be a contender in the East. And, if things go their way, they could find themselves in the NBA Finals again with a chance to win it again.

Nothing is guaranteed. But, I wouldn't say the Pistons are done just yet.

[mabber]

Get a grip, himat.

The Pistons played poorly, and the Heat were the better team. It's not always about destiny or being on a mission to prove everyone wrong. Sometimes, things just don't work out.

The Heat played better. And, when your team gets beat, suck it up and roll with it.

You can cry about conspiracies or officiating or bad coaching all you want. It won't change the outcome. Pistons were just not good enough this year.

I'm glad you post on this board, cuz I always seem to agree with most everything you say.

[Odogg]

Well, I understand how Piston's homers would like to believe that this team is not done and will be back next year clicking on all cylinders under the mighty "Flip" Saunders, but without Larry Brown, you guys are not championship level anymore. Without the coach that will sit in a huddle of a timeout during a pressure packed NBA finals game and say "I just want you to know, I Love you guys!" and bark at Chauncy for running and gunning 3's or sub one of the "All Stars" because of a missed Defensive assignment or get in Sheed's face for acting like an A-hole, you guys are not the same. Hell Ben Wallace even said so. This year more than any year has to show that you need a STRONG coach that will motivate, teach and discipline their team and knows how to push each player's buttons. Flip looks like he is happy to be drawing a check. And I doubt he has ever even looked Rasheed wallace in his eyes during a timeout. Give me a break, Flip Saunders is going to take the Pistons to the promised land, yeah right!

[mike detroit]

Well, I understand how Piston's homers would like to believe that this team is not done and will be back next year clicking on all cylinders under the mighty "Flip" Saunders, but without Larry Brown, you guys are not championship level anymore. Without the coach that will sit in a huddle of a timeout during a pressure packed NBA finals game and say "I just want you to know, I Love you guys!" and bark at Chauncy for running and gunning 3's or sub one of the "All Stars" because of a missed Defensive assignment or get in Sheed's face for acting like an A-hole, you guys are not the same. Hell Ben Wallace even said so. This year more than any year has to show that you need a STRONG coach that will motivate, teach and discipline their team and knows how to push each player's buttons. Flip looks like he is happy to be drawing a check. And I doubt he has ever even looked Rasheed wallace in his eyes during a timeout. Give me a break, Flip Saunders is going to take the Pistons to the promised land, yeah right!


I'm not sure who you think you're arguing with, but I'm not seeing anyone actually saying the things you're refuting.

[1Parker1]

^:lol Agreed. I don't think there's anyone on the forum who thinks that Flip is a good coach/fit for the Pistons.

[JET_31]

They said Detroit was done even after the year they won the title in 2004.

They said they were done after last year.

They might not be as good as the last couple years. But, they are not going to just go away. They'll still be a contender in the East. And, if things go their way, they could find themselves in the NBA Finals again with a chance to win it again.

Nothing is guaranteed. But, I wouldn't say the Pistons are done just yet.

By no means are they done, even if they had a disappointment they were still only a series away from the finals. I'd say the pistons will be a dominant team for the next 5 years.

[pussyface]

flip might not be much of a coach, but he doesnt shoot jumpshots