Spurs Use NFL Practice Drills To Toughen Up Rasho

[timvp]

Big help: Don Newman, the Spurs' new assistant coach, will spend some of his time this season working with the team's centers and power forwards.

That seems an appropriate task considering Newman played seven seasons in the Canadian Football League and also went to training camp with the New York Jets and Seattle Seahawks.

Newman sometimes uses a blocking pad in drills to get physical with the Spurs' big men.

"A lot of people call it the football mentality, but it just gives you an opportunity to make contact," said Newman, who also played three seasons in the CBA under George Karl.

"You're not trying to hurt or maim anyone or do anything like that. But it does give the guys an opportunity to feel more of a live situation, and the contact and the force that's going to be behind a play."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA101404.11D.BKNSpursBrown.1187ba39a.html

[Marcus Bryant]

'It's easier to tame a lion than to pump up a pussycat.'

30 vBookie dollars for the first non-forum creator to name the former Spur who famously made that remark and 30 more vBookie dollars for the Spur player he was referring to.

[timvp]

:hat

[T Park]

Dennis Rodman and David Robinson.

[ShoogarBear]

AJ said it.

I think he said it about Rodman.

[MI21]

AJ and Rodman. Probably said it about D-Rob too, but other way around.

[Rick Von Braun]

AJ said it... too late for my 30 vBucks I guess http://209.120.238.120/%7Espursco/forums/images/smilies/smidepressed.gif















http://209.120.238.120/%7Espursco/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[blackbucket]

AJ to David Robinson

[Marcus Bryant]

30 vBookie dollars to SB.

[timvp]

Yeah, AJ said it and was referring to himself as the lion.

[timvp]

Newman sometimes uses a blocking pad in drills to get physical with the Spurs' big men.

Damn, this sounds like it might work. The Spurs must have gone out and searched for someone to help them get more physical on the inside. Good idea.

If you can get Rasho to be more aggressive, the Spurs will be a lot better off. He shouldn't be afraid to use up his fouls on defense. He rarely finishes games anyways, so being in foul trouble isn't a factor.

On offense, maybe this will help him get to the foul line more often. As it is, you can really gauge how soft Rasho is by his FTA per game. It is off the charts low. If he can be more powerful with the ball on offense, that will go a long ways toward reaching the goal of 10, 10 and 2.

[Nikos]

Does he really even need 10ppg? With the pace the Spurs play, him increasing his scoring average and reebounds he would have to get more minutes. I'm OK with him getting the same amount of points as last season or even a little less as long as more of his points come from the FT line, or he just GREATLY increases his shooting %'s (as a result of dunking more and finishing around the hoop).

But I'm just not sure if the team even needs Rasho to get 10ppg, considering Duncan, TP, Gino, Barry, Rose being the best scorers on the team who will be receiving significant minutes (hopefully Rose will).

Basically Rasho just needs to improve a bit on the boards and his aggresiveness offensively and a bit defensively as well.

[timvp]

There is no reason Rasho shouldn't shoot 55% from the floor. Every shot he takes should be wide open. If he can shoot 55% from the floor, get to the line more, hit 70% from the line and get more offensive rebounds ... then 10 points per game would be possible without running any plays for him.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.costumeholidayhouse.com/chh/images/D577-D579-1.jpg

uhhh...coach...you aren't gonna let the media in to this practice are you?

[Solid D]

If you can get Rasho to be more aggressive

I like what Rasho brings on his defensive assignments, but LJ...being MORE aggressive will be tough for Rasho. That "If" is a big


"IF"

[timvp]

Exactly. :)

That is why running him through NFL drills may be the Spurs' only hope.




P.S.

If he really is 270 as he's listed now, maybe my BALCO idea from earlier in the summer wasn't as far-fetched as first thought.

:smokin

[boutons]

I agree, Rasho hustling the off. boards more, and getting putbacks (in traffic, he tends to kick out off. RBs out rather than power into the basket) should get 10 ppg. Hit a couple jump shots from the key as 2nd or 3rd option when drivers kick it out, and he's got his 10. Both Rasho and, yes, Tim need to watch how Pau power slides into the basket from witin a few feet. If Pau can do it so well, Tim and Rasho can, too.

If Rasho's not needed to score, he should get 10+ RB/g, and keep up his 2 BLK/game, and generally muck up the Spurs paint, altering shots, dissuading drivers. eg. EXACTLY what he was hired to do.

And fuck all you Rasho haters. Rasho's gonna be around for a long time, and your repetitive anti-Rasho shit was already old last season. Give it, and the rest of us, a rest.

Tim, Tony, Manu, AND RASHO are the core starters for years to come, and the Spurs will be no less than an NBA top 3 for all those years. Go fucking root for the other 27 also-rans if you don't like it.

[Solid D]

:rollin @ CosmicCowboy

[ducks]

I think they should do the same thing with all the bigs including duncan
he needs to dunk it more to not just rasho

[Nikos]

There is no reason Rasho shouldn't shoot 55% from the floor. Every shot he takes should be wide open. If he can shoot 55% from the floor, get to the line more, hit 70% from the line and get more offensive rebounds ... then 10 points per game would be possible without running any plays for him.

True, but can he get to the line and hit at 70%? Thats the problem. Also if the Spurs offense generally improves as a whole, I can see him maybe getting 9-10ppg, but thats ONLY if he improves his open shots, finishes around the rim better, and gets to the line and converts better.

But in general I don't think hes needed for 10ppg, he can get 8-9ppg, as long as they come more efficiently than last season.

[samikeyp]

I would like to see just once get pissed off and knock the hell out of someone.

[T Park]

samikeyp

how many times was that said about David Robinson??

"Oh well, thats not who he is!!"

"Well, that means Rasho is soft."

Not much of a double standard there is there.

Was David Robinson soft for not knocking someone on there ass??

Does Tim Duncan get mad and knock someone on there ass??


PS, Why does a team need a guy like that. Thats what Massenburg is for. You want a tough big man, thats his job.



PSS,

Rasho shooting 70% from the free throw line isnt likely. 1 Reason, his shooting the ball is unorthodox, moreso than the Admiral, that I dont know if its possible.

Now shooting 55% is likely because I think he shot 52% from the field with the Timberwolves.

Maybe Rasho had an off year shooting the ball.

All I know, is there are alot worse guys, and thank god it wasnt up to Marcus Bryant or anyone else because if it was up to them wed be stuck with Michael Olowakandi.

[Marcus Bryant]

I never wanted Olowokandi, Stay Puff. Just because Radosoft is a Spur that does not make him immune from criticism.

[BronxCowboy]

Was David Robinson soft for not knocking someone on there ass??

I agree with your basic premise that Rasho is criticized too much for being soft (I think that's what you were saying), but the Admiral certainly did knock people on their ass way more than Rasho does. Not in malice, just business. But there aren't too many people that played against him and didn't get knocked on their ass at least once.

[samikeyp]

Hey, I said that about DRob also, TPark. I would have love to see him put someone on their ass now and then.

I have never bought the "soft" label. To me, if you have put in the work needed to get to the NBA level...you are not soft.

[T Park]

Ok, we agree 100% too then lol.


Cryant, whats classic, is , if Malik had put the numbers Rasho put up last year, youd be hailing Malik as the next coming.

But of course, Malik Rose does no wrong, even though he DIDNT want to play last year as evidenced as doing shit to Pop keeping him in the doghouse.

[Marcus Bryant]

Stay Puff, Malik Rose was treated like shit last season because of his contract. Coming off of yet another strong performance in a championship season that was a slap in the face. The Spurs were giving him the same treatment they gave David Robinson when Pop told him to his face he was "done" and lowballing him with the assumption that they could do what they wanted with him.

[ChumpDumper]

If Rasho should shoot 55% from the floor, how come DRob never shot over 51% playing with Duncan?

[Nikos]

Drob made up for it by going to the FT line a lot. He was much more efficient on offense than Rasho was.

Rasho actually shot better in Minnesotta.

Bottom line, Rasho needs to just get a bit more efficient on offense, either by getting to the line more and converting, or shooting at a higher %.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes we should treat guys coming off a championship season like gods no matter what they do later.

Sincerely,

Jaren Jackson

[ChumpDumper]

Drob made up for it by going to the FT line a lot.That wasn't the question.

[Nikos]

Rasho did shoot 53% in Minnesotta, but they were a more offensively potent team, and Rasho didn't rebound nearly as well or play as good defense as he did this season.

If he can shoot above 50% in Minnesotta, he can do it in SA by finishing the ball better/dunking or just hitting that open jumper more.

Bottom line is Rasho doesn't need to score a lot, but for the 8-9ppg he gets, it would be nice if they came from the FT line more (provided his % gets better).

[manustarting2gd]

They need to put a spine in Rasho is what they need to do! Maybe some metal piping that attaches to his neck to keep it upright

[Useruser666]

Doc Oc Style? Cool!

[Marcus Bryant]

Rose showed no reason to believe he wasn't the same player as before, unlike JJ.

Try again.

[timvp]

If Rasho should shoot 55% from the floor, how come DRob never shot over 51% playing with Duncan?

Because Robinson was a scoring threat. The Spurs ran plays for him. He was one of the go to options (until late in his career).

Rasho should be a garbage man. He should play D, rebound and block shots first, and then take shots if he's wide open second. If he's taking anything other than a dunk (or a layup in his language) or a uncontested 10 footer, he's doing something wrong.

[Karl Mundt]

On offense, maybe this will help him get to the foul line more often. As it is, you can really gauge how soft Rasho is by his FTA per game. It is off the charts low. If he can be more powerful with the ball on offense, that will go a long ways toward reaching the goal of 10, 10 and 2.

First off i have to agree Rasho does get disturbingly low number of FTA per game. I think his last year in Minnesota he was lowest in the league at FTA per FGA. I'm not so sure this is due to his softness though. There is another interesting offensive stat that is overlooked here, and that he was 10th in the league in offensive rebounds a game, averaging nearly as many as Tim does. So i don't think he could do that if he was THAT soft. Maybe the problem with his low FTA is due to fears of getting blocked, or fears of having to shoot actual free throws since he doesn't do too well in that category. Going through his game log it's interesting to note he shot a lot more of them in the first half of the season than he did in the half. 1.5 in november, 1.9 in december and 2.7 in january, then he got 0.4 and 0.8 in february and march, and didnt even shoot one in the 7 games in april. In fact, he closed the regular season with an 11 game streak without shooting a three throw, and didn't go to the line at all during the entire Grizzlies series, extending that streak to 15 games.

As for the expectation of him going 10, 10, 2. I think 10 points should be a very realistic target for him. Even if his minutes stay the same as last season, he should be a little bit more comfortable on the offense, get a couple of more shots with a realistic goal of going over .50% from the field. I don't think his FT% will ever be 70%, but he gets to 60% (he shot 64% last year at Minnesota), i think for a Spur that will be ok.

I also expect him to get those 2 blocks a game next season. He managed this last season while adapting to a fairly complex Spur's defensive scheme so i don't see a reason why he shouldn't at least match that. If he plays 32, 33 minutes a game maybe he can even get to 2.5bp. Last year he was closer to 2.2 until the late season slump.

Rebounds though is another story. I have argued that, the same as with points scored, individual rebounds depend a lot on the overall team rebounding capabilities. If you put Kobe, McGrady, Tim, KG and Shaq on one team, they are not going to get 25ppg, even if you play them for 40 minutes a night. There are just so many shots a team can make during a game, and if you have one guy (or a couple of guys) shooting more, the other's are gonna get less. I think it applies to rebounds too. There are just so many there for a team to get (even if they outrebound the opposing team badly), so when you put Tim Duncan on a team, the other players numbers will get dwarfed. If you don't believe that, go check the stats for last year's rebounding leaders.

In the top 25 in rpg, there are 25 players from 22 different teams. The only teams who have more than one player in the top 25 are the Cavs, Hornets and .. the Spurs. I think a stat that says a lot is the one which puts Tim and Rasho 2nd (or was it 1st, not sure) in the league in rebounding tandems. Now i'm not trying to suggest Rasho is in the same league as Tim when it comes to rebounding, i'm just saying he pulls his own weight quite adequately and is often done injustice in that category.

So with Tim on the Spur's team i don't think Rasho is ever going to get 10 rebounds, unless you start playing 38-40 minutes a game. I think if he does something like last season (the Spur's WERE 3rd in the league in RPG) the team will be ok. His numbers depend on playing time though. If he gets 34 mpg, which i doubt he will, he might go for 9 rebounds a game. But that's as good as he'll do on this team. Put him on a team with a poor rebounding power forward and he gets 10 rebounds a game easily. I think he got over 12 last year for the games Tim was out.

:drunk

[Karl Mundt]

Excuse my dyslexia

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho had a pretty average year.

Malik and Horry, the guys who are supposed to be the closers etc., had worse years comparatively. What should they do to not suck?

[ChumpDumper]

Rose showed no reason to believe he wasn't the same player as beforeI agree he was the same player who got beat out by Willis.

[timvp]

First off i have to agree Rasho does get disturbingly low number of FTA per game. I think his last year in Minnesota he was lowest in the league at FTA per FGA. I'm not so sure this is due to his softness though. There is another interesting offensive stat that is overlooked here, and that he was 10th in the league in offensive rebounds a game, averaging nearly as many as Tim does. So i don't think he could do that if he was THAT soft. Maybe the problem with his low FTA is due to fears of getting blocked, or fears of having to shoot actual free throws since he doesn't do too well in that category. Going through his game log it's interesting to note he shot a lot more of them in the first half of the season than he did in the half. 1.5 in november, 1.9 in december and 2.7 in january, then he got 0.4 and 0.8 in february and march, and didnt even shoot one in the 7 games in april. In fact, he closed the regular season with an 11 game streak without shooting a three throw, and didn't go to the line at all during the entire Grizzlies series, extending that streak to 15 games.

As for the expectation of him going 10, 10, 2. I think 10 points should be a very realistic target for him. Even if his minutes stay the same as last season, he should be a little bit more comfortable on the offense, get a couple of more shots with a realistic goal of going over .50% from the field. I don't think his FT% will ever be 70%, but he gets to 60% (he shot 64% last year at Minnesota), i think for a Spur that will be ok.

I also expect him to get those 2 blocks a game next season. He managed this last season while adapting to a fairly complex Spur's defensive scheme so i don't see a reason why he shouldn't at least match that. If he plays 32, 33 minutes a game maybe he can even get to 2.5bp. Last year he was closer to 2.2 until the late season slump.

Rebounds though is another story. I have argued that, the same as with points scored, individual rebounds depend a lot on the overall team rebounding capabilities. If you put Kobe, McGrady, Tim, KG and Shaq on one team, they are not going to get 25ppg, even if you play them for 40 minutes a night. There are just so many shots a team can make during a game, and if you have one guy (or a couple of guys) shooting more, the other's are gonna get less. I think it applies to rebounds too. There are just so many there for a team to get (even if they outrebound the opposing team badly), so when you put Tim Duncan on a team, the other players numbers will get dwarfed. If you don't believe that, go check the stats for last year's rebounding leaders.

In the top 25 in rpg, there are 25 players from 22 different teams. The only teams who have more than one player in the top 25 are the Cavs, Hornets and .. the Spurs. I think a stat that says a lot is the one which puts Tim and Rasho 2nd (or was it 1st, not sure) in the league in rebounding tandems. Now i'm not trying to suggest Rasho is in the same league as Tim when it comes to rebounding, i'm just saying he pulls his own weight quite adequately and is often done injustice in that category.

So with Tim on the Spur's team i don't think Rasho is ever going to get 10 rebounds, unless you start playing 38-40 minutes a game. I think if he does something like last season (the Spur's WERE 3rd in the league in RPG) the team will be ok. His numbers depend on playing time though. If he gets 34 mpg, which i doubt he will, he might go for 9 rebounds a game. But that's as good as he'll do on this team. Put him on a team with a poor rebounding power forward and he gets 10 rebounds a game easily. I think he got over 12 last year for the games Tim was out.

:drunk

Very nice post, Karl.

I would just like to point out that the Spurs lost Hedo Turkoglu. Though that doesn't effect much, it makes the team smaller and not as good rebounding-wise. That alone should allow Rasho to pick up a couple boards a game. Duncan and Manu are good rebounds, while Bowen and Parker are below average. The difference needs to be made up by Nesterovic.

Also, a good majority of his offensive rebounds were off his own misses. It wasn't uncommon for him to miss 2 or 3 layups in a row while trying to score down low. That inflated his offensive rebound stats.

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho isn't going to get much better folks.

[timvp]

Rasho isn't going to get much better folks.

Why not? The Spurs are planning on him getting better. That is why they sent over trainers to get him in shape. That is why they are beating him up to make him stronger in the post. If he's not going to be as good as a borderline crippled no-feeling-in-his-right-leg David Robinson, how are the Spurs supposed to win anything?

And aren't you the one saying Rose HAS TO get better to earn his contract?

[ChumpDumper]

I think the degree to which folks think he can improve is a bit lofty, therefore I say not much better.
And aren't you the one saying Rose HAS TO get better to earn his contract?Rose HAS BEEN better.

[timvp]

I think the degree to which folks think he can improve is a bit lofty, therefore I say not much better.

So 10, 10 and 2 isn't possible?






P.S.

Rose WILL BE better.

:hat

[ChumpDumper]

So 10, 10 and 2 isn't possible?I don't know if he'll ever be a double digit rebounder, especially if he plays 30mpg or less. Only 11 guys in the entire league got to that point last year.
Rose WILL BE better.Fine by me. If he is, then Rasho isn't a problem at all.

Play him or trade him.

[ducks]

rose was worse last year because he quit trying
HE IS A QUITTER AND DESERVERS TO GO TO CLIPPERS

rose even admitted he quit trying
he better be glad I am not the coach or the owner

rasho atleast does not quite

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh yes, Rose was "beaten out" by Willis and went on, again, to be a vital part of a championship season.

You place a tad bit too much emphasis on this "beaten out" nonsense as well as apparently no recognition of the obvious fact that the Spurs wanted him gone because of the contract, regardless if he missed a few early season shots or not.

[ChumpDumper]

To average 10 rebounds in the 28.7 minutes he played last year, Rasho would had to have to boarded at a rate between that of Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett and ended up #3 in the league in rebounds per 48.

So yes, I believe that is a bit unrealistic.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh yes, Rose was "beaten out" by Willis and went on, again, to be a vital part of a championship season.And didn't last year.
You place a tad bit too much emphasis on this "beaten out" nonsenseAnd you completely ignore that it actually happened.
as well as apparently no recognition of the obvious fact that the Spurs wanted him gone because of the contractAnd they showcased him by benching him. Brilliant! That's the Marcus way of moving merchandise!

[ChumpDumper]

More numbers -- If Shaq played Rasho's minutes, he'd average 8.96 rebounds per game.

Food for thought.

[timvp]

The difference is Rasho's number one job has to be rebounding. Shaq, Garnett and Duncan have to carry there teams ... Rasho just has to pick up the ball after it hits the rim.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, they benched him and then he went on to give them what they needed in the 2002-03 season. The benching is rather insignificant.

Yes, the Spurs wanted to move Rose because of the contract, before any consideration of his play. The fact that they didn't want anything but ending contracts in return says enough. It was always about long term payroll, not a cold shooting streak in a few games.

Again you place too much emphasis on the fact that Rose was benched in regards to the Spurs trying to trade him. Teams knew what he could do. No need to showcase him. That's a point for people who think that a cold shooting streak is why you trade a player, not something significant such as long term payroll considerations. The Spurs took him out of the rotation precisely because they had decided to move him because of the contract. At that point it made no sense to keep him in the rotation. And of course why risk injury to a player that you are trying to move, after all?

Duh.

[ChumpDumper]

The difference is Rasho's number one job has to be rebounding. Shaq, Garnett and Duncan have to carry there teams ... Rasho just has to pick up the ball after it hits the rim.Same with Jeff Foster, Reggie Evans and Ben Wallace.

He's supposed to board at a better rate than all those as well?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, the Spurs wanted to move Rose because of the contract, before any consideration of his play.Bullshit. Got beat out. End of line.
At that point it made no sense to keep him in the rotation. And of course why risk injury to a player that you are trying to move, after all?And yet, he played. If your dumbass theory was true, they wouldn't have played him at all. Good show!

[timvp]

Rasho is going to play 30-32 minutes per game this year. He's playing next to Tim Duncan in the front court. He shouldn't have anything better to do than grab rebounds. The other teams will be concentrating on keeping Duncan off the boards.

I'm just asking him to average 2 more rebounds per game. That's not something outlandish like asking him to say ..... dunk the ball.

[ducks]

one rebound every 3 minutes is what you want

unfortantly not many nba players do that

people playing with shaq,kg and duncan do not do that

dave might have but dave was taller and a better player then rasho

[BronxCowboy]

I agree Rasho is never going to average 10rpg for a whole season (unless Tim misses a lot of games . . . which can't be good). Myself, I thought that he did pretty damn well last year for the minutes he played. Much better than I expected him to or he ever had before. He could get a lot more consistent on the boards, but double digits?? If Malik gets his pt back, and I think he will, 10rpg for Rasho is out of the question since Malik will get a lot more boards playing next to Rasho than Horry did.
But shooting 50-52% is not unrealistic. With his offensive rebounds he should have had a lot more easy buckets on putbacks, and more trips to the line. He'll never be even a mediocre FT shooter, but with slightly better FG% and a more reasonable number of FT attempts, he should have had 10-11 ppg last season, and there's no reason to believe he won't this year, especially if the Spurs run a more dynamic offense, as they should with Hedo our and Barry in.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bullshit. Got beat out. End of line.

Just like in 2002-03? Bullshit indeed.



And yet, he played. If your dumbass theory was true, they wouldn't have played him at all. Good show!

Why didn't the Spurs try to trade him in 2002 when they benched him?

I was being facetious when I made that comment. Unlike you I can actually understand that the Spurs wanted to move Rose because his contract did not fit in their long term plans, plans which certainly considered what Ginobili and Parker would cost to re-sign. That decision was made after the end of the 2002-03 season, not before, since a not so small part of the rationale for giving Rose that contract in 2002 was to keep TD happy, which of course was rather significant because he was a free agent in the following summer. Also, it did not become apparent how much Ginobili was going to cost to retain until his performance in the 2002-03 season, especially in the championship run. The fact that you believe everything the Spurs say and do says enough about your ability to ascertain just what is a "dumbass theory."

If your view had any semblance of being correct, the Spurs would not have sought to move Rose for nothing but just expiring contracts. They would have sought out the deal that brought them in the best talent. If they were willing to carry Rose's contract long term as you assume (so long as he wasn't "beaten out") then why not be open to taking back a long term contract? If they were willing to do so, then the trading possibilities would have been much more attractive.

You've yet to explain that because you have no response for it.

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho is going to play 30-32 minutes per game this year. He's playing next to Tim Duncan in the front court. He shouldn't have anything better to do than grab rebounds. The other teams will be concentrating on keeping Duncan off the boards.

I'm just asking him to average 2 more rebounds per game. That's not something outlandishThat's still exactly a Shaq O'Neal rebounding clip.

For that floor time, 9 would be fantastic. More a Jermaine O'Neal rebounding rate.

[ChumpDumper]

Just like in 2002-03?He played well enough to beat out Willis, not Horry. Too bad for him.
Why didn't the Spurs try to trade him in 2002 when they benched him? They did.
I was being facetious when I made that comment.Sure. Right. You can back off if you want. No shame in being wrong.
If your view had any semblance of being correct, the Spurs would not have sought to move Rose for nothing but just expiring contracts.If you can convince me those guys traded for wouldn't have played last year, I'd agree. You can't.

[timvp]

That's still exactly a Shaq O'Neal rebounding clip.

For that floor time, 9 would be fantastic. More a Jermaine O'Neal rebounding rate.

Look at it this way. All he has to do is get one rebound per game that Hedo would have gotten. Then improve enough to pull down 1 extra board a game.

I'm not asking for the world.

[Marcus Bryant]

He played well enough to beat out Willis, not Horry. Too bad for him.

He was benched in 2002. He certainly played horribly in that season, no doubt.



They did.


Wrong.



Sure. Right. You can back off if you want. No shame in being wrong.

Oh, I'm backing off from a facetious comment. You really got me there.



If you can convince me those guys wouldn't have played last year, I'd agree. You can't.

That doesn't matter. Why limit yourself to only taking back expiring contracts? If you are willing to carry that level of payroll why not seek out the best talent you can acquire? You can always try to address another part of the team.

That right there is where your bullshit theory breaks down.

[ChumpDumper]

Look at it this way. All he has to do is get one rebound per game that Hedo would have gotten. Then improve enough to pull down 1 extra board a game.

I'm not asking for the world.I'm simply putting it in perspective. If you think he can rebound at a Shaq rate, fine.

I don't.

[ChumpDumper]

That doesn't matter.Of course it does.
That right there is where your bullshit theory breaks down.Not at all. You can't convince me they wouldn't have played. In Thomas' case, even more than Malik. You failed.

[Marcus Bryant]

Not at all. You can't convince me they wouldn't have played. In Thomas' case, even more than Malik. You failed.

It does not matter if Thomas played the same position. It was clear the overriding concern of the Spurs is that they got back an expiring contract. After the season we saw that they were so determined to get rid of Malik's contract that they left him unprotected in the expansion draft with the distinct possibility of getting nothing in return.

What position does "nothing" play?

[ChumpDumper]

It does not matter if Thomas played the same position.Sure it does. Otherwise there would've been more trade possibilities. And of course, Scola would've been signed with any money gotten from Malik's leaving in the expansion draft. Guess which position he plays.

Why keep around a guy at that contract if he gets beat out every year by whatever old fart that comes along?

You never answered that and never will.

Malik has his chance again, but if he's beat out again by the old farts, he's gone -- and they'll take anything this time.

[Marcus Bryant]

Once the Spurs found out how much Ginobili would cost long term as well as what Cardinal and Foyle cost then all of a sudden Pop loved Malik again.

Rather clear for those who were paying attention as to why the Spurs loved Malik again. 5 years and $32 million didn't seem so bad when Brian Cardinal was getting $40 million.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure it does. Otherwise there would've been more trade possibilities.

What was limiting the trade possibilities? It was that the Spurs were only seeking out expiring contracts in return.

[ducks]

if he quits trying it does not matter if he got paid $1
he needs to go

[ChumpDumper]

And of course, Scola would've been signed with any money gotten from Malik's leaving in the expansion draft. Guess which position he plays.

Why keep around a guy at that contract if he gets beat out every year by whatever old fart that comes along?

You never answered that and never will.

Malik has his chance again, but if he's beat out again by the old farts, he's gone -- and they'll take anything this time.
It was that the Spurs were only seeking out expiring contracts in return.Nope, look at the packages. Even you aren't this stupid.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why keep around a guy at that contract if he gets beat out every year by whatever old fart that comes along?

You never answered that and never will.


Just like in 2002? That shows you how insignificant that being "beat out" was. Given that, why move Rose just because he was "beaten out" early on by an old player again?

So I answered your point. Again.




Malik has his chance again, but if he's beat out again by the old farts, he's gone -- and they'll take anything this time.

Oh yes, they will want to move him so much that they will go to the extreme of only wanting expriring contracts back.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nope, look at the packages. Even you aren't this stupid.

Which one? Name it 'stupidhead.'

[ChumpDumper]

Given that, why move Rose just because he was "beaten out" early on by an old player again? Because he costs to much to play 15mpg after getting beaten out by old farts two years in a row.

End of story.
Oh yes, they will want to move him so much that they will go to the extreme of only wanting expriring contracts back.Yep, and they won't have to play PF. You ARE that stupid, eh?

[Marcus Bryant]

And of course, Scola would've been signed with any money gotten from Malik's leaving in the expansion draft. Guess which position he plays.

Oh great, an unproven player versus a proven player which we know what he can do at that position.

Scola is nothing but a prospect. If he's as good as advertised then perhaps he's as good as Malik, and then you will find yourself having to pay him an arm and a leg in a couple of seasons.

If's he's not as good as Malik, then you just fucked up and are stuck having to find a decent backup bigman with salaries escalating considerably at that position and you are capped out. Come on, even an uptight know it all bitch like you couldn't possibly have advanced such a dumb fucking argument.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Spade/9674/works/showtime.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Because he costs to much to play 15mpg after getting beaten out by old farts two years in a row.

End of story.

If Rose was beaten out in the 2002-03 season, how come he was the primary backup bigman for most of that season? Come on, stop being so "stupid."




Yep, and they won't have to play PF. You ARE that stupid, eh?

What would have mattered most was that they got Rose's contract off the books, ChumpHumper. If you want to make a big deal out of the position, perhaps they wanted insurance at that spot until the end of the season. Still, there was no indication that they wanted solely a big back.

[ChumpDumper]

If Rose was beaten out in the 2002-03 season, how come he was the primary backup bigman? He won his position back over the 2000 year old man. He didn't do the same against Horry even after there was no chance of trading him.
What mattered most was that they got Rose's contract off the booksWhich is a pretty stupid contract if the guy gets beat out every year by old farts and couldn't win it back even after February when he couldn't be traded anymore. Sad.

[Marcus Bryant]

He won his position back over the 2000 year old man. He didn't do the same against Horry even after there was no chance of trading him.

By that time it had become personal between Pop and Rose. We saw how smart that decision was come playoff time. Pop is stubborn to a fault sometimes, no doubt about that.




Which is a pretty stupid contract if the guy gets beat out every year by old farts and couldn't win it back even after February when he couldn't be traded anymore. Sad.

By that time it was personal between Pop and Rose. Hard to say I blame Rose considering that his greatest fault according to the Spurs was apparently accepting the contract offer the Spurs gave him and giving the Spurs precisely what they needed in yet another championship run in 2003.

But..but...he missed some shots in November.

[ChumpDumper]

By that time it had become personal between Pop and Rose.It's not like Rose was stellar when he did play, homer.

But, he just needed more time....

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh yes, the cold shooting streak again. Nevermind when he stepped up during those first 17 games. Of course you don't mention his other stats.

Dumping 29 year old Rose who had proven he was a postseason warrior for the past 5 years over a little early season cold shooting, and especially after he had proven himself to come on strong during a season in favor of stopgap or unproven solutions at that position and with yourself willing to carry his salary longterm makes little sense.

Unless your desire to move him was based upon a desire to pare down payroll in anticipation of Ginobili and Parker getting paid.

As for being a "homer", call me that all you want. (Actually the fact that you think that is some kind of major insult says enough about you. I am laughing at you for thinking that means anything, 'stupidhead').

Also, it's quite humorous given that you already have Scola pencilled in to be 6th man of the year or whatever.

[ChumpDumper]

Dumping 29 year old Rose who had proven he was a postseason warrior for the past 5 years over a little early season cold shooting, and especially after he had proven himself to come on strong during a season in favor of stopgap or unproven solutions at that position and with yourself willing to carry his salary longterm makes little sense.He got beat out twice by old farts and costs to much to play 15mpg
Also, it's quite humorous given that you already have Scola pencilled in to be 6th man of the year or whatever.I don't. I know he would've been signed had there been room this summer. Deny that.

[Marcus Bryant]

He got beat out twice by old farts and costs to much to play 15mpg

He'd proven before he could get the job done when called on before. We saw how little getting benched in 2002 really meant.

Horry and Willis were not long term solutions. Malik certainly was and is. Unless, again, you have decided you cannot carry that level of payroll.




I don't. I know he would've been signed had there been room this summer. Deny that.

Maybe, maybe not. That still doesn't make him a preferred option to Malik Rose, a proven backup bigman and key component of two title runs. Unless, again, you want to move Rose because you want to reduce your long term payroll. Given that the Spurs were seeking out expiring contracts for Rose at the trade deadline last season and exposed him in the expansion draft it is clear that their first motivation in trying to deal him was his contract.

Funny how after Manu agreed to his new deal and as soon as the Spurs saw what other bigs were going for in free agency that they decided Rose was staying and they started turning down trades.

Go figure.

[ChumpDumper]

Unless, again, you have decided you cannot carry that level of payroll.
Again, not for a guy who gets beat out by old farts and plays 15mpg.
Funny how after Manu agreed to his new deal and as soon as the Spurs saw what other bigs were going for in free agency that they decided Rose was staying and they started turning down trades.It was too late to trade him for nothing. Period. Nothing funny about that.

If he gets beat out by old farts again it's back up on the block.

Play him or trade him.

[ChumpDumper]

Need I remind you the lovefest with our starting point guard, Antonio Daniels, before he got beat out and traded?

Yes, I do.

[Marcus Bryant]

Too late? The Spurs are turning down offers now.

[ChumpDumper]

Too late?To sign Scola, dumbass.

[Marcus Bryant]

As for AD, the Spurs moved him for cap purposes.

Was he benched?

[ChumpDumper]

Was he benched?Was he starting at the point?

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not "too late". If they really think Rose is no longer up to the job, then why are they not taking offers now? Especially if they aren't committed to clearing cap room. Surely they would be listening to what is available since he is so horrid.

They can sign Scola with the MLE next summer anyways. That's not an issue.

[Marcus Bryant]

AD wasn't moved out of the rotation. If you want to split hairs then your prior claims that Rose was "benched" were incorrect. How could he have been "benched" if he was already "benched"?

[ChumpDumper]

It's not "too late".God you are a fucking idiot. Do you need Scola's line from Tau to show he's not available?
If they really think Rose is no longer up to the job, then why are they not taking offers now?For whom? What trades happen at this time of year?

None.

[ChumpDumper]

AD wasn't moved out of the rotation. If you want to split hairs then your prior claims that Rose was "benched" were incorrect.Both had their minutes and role sharply reduced. Deny it. Go ahead.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bitch, read the entire paragraph:


It's not "too late". If they really think Rose is no longer up to the job, then why are they not taking offers now? Especially if they aren't committed to clearing cap room. Surely they would be listening to what is available since he is so horrid.[/qutoe]


[quote]For whom? What trades happen at this time of year?

None.

Trades have occurred at this time of year before. And it wasn't now when the Spurs decided they weren't going to deal him.

[ChumpDumper]

Bitch, read the entire paragraphI read the entire paragraph and it still has no point if you can't say for whom.
Trades have occurred at this time of year before.There hasn't been a trade in a month, cupcake.
And it wasn't now when the Spurs decided they weren't going to deal him.Of course not -- it was when Scola was no longer available.

[Marcus Bryant]

Both had their minutes and role sharply reduced. Deny it. Go ahead.

AD still had a significant role with the team. Going into the season it was already planned that Parker would take over when ready. That was a bit earlier than assumed.

In that case AD was replaced by a younger point. Now did the Spurs try to trade him immediately?

NO.

Figure it out, you "fucking idiot." Come on.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think it is rather clear:


It's not "too late". If they really think Rose is no longer up to the job, then why are they not taking offers now?

Oh well, bitch, this is all the time I am going to waste on you today. Now go home honey and cook your man his dinner.

Provided you haven't already nagged him out of your life.

[ChumpDumper]

In that case AD was replaced by a younger point.Beat out.

Then traded.

Cuban trades in training camp, not the Spurs.

Name the players offerred for Malik, Marcus.

Name them.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not "too late". If they really think Rose is no longer up to the job, then why are they not taking offers now?Name the names.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh well, bitch, this is all the time I am going to waste on you today. Now go home honey and cook your man his dinner.

Provided you haven't already nagged him out of your life.Sequ will be laughing his ass off at you.

[T Park]

Because Robinson was a scoring threat. The Spurs ran plays for him. He was one of the go to options (until late in his career).

Rasho should be a garbage man. He should play D, rebound and block shots first, and then take shots if he's wide open second. If he's taking anything other than a dunk (or a layup in his language) or a uncontested 10 footer, he's doing something wrong.


Uh, isnt that what Rasho is doing now? Focusing on defense and rebounding and getting block shots, and taking only open jumpers and open layups near the rim??


Id also like to ask the Hypocrits when they rip Rasho for NOT dunking, were they there to rip David Robinson for not dunking too??

JC.

[T Park]

Still waiting for the answer on Malik admitting he did stuff so that he DIDNT have to play and could stay in the doghouse.

Hes yet to answer that. But, it, it was the DAMN CONTRACT!!!!

Riiiiigggghhhtt...

(xfiles them begins to play)

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, I was the one who yelled at Rasho to dunk it at the scrimmage.

I'm all for his being aggro but I'm not holding my breath. It's more likely Rose and/or Horry might play worth a shit this year.

[T Park]

I still am wondering what is so bad about 8 and 10 and 2 a game.

Once again, we bitch about Rasho, but who was better at the time and whos available thats better now?

Olowakandi??

Dude makes Grant Hill look like Lou Gherig for christ sakes.

[SequSpur]

This equation is easy.

Malik Rose has a history of being shitty.

Rasho has a history of being a wuss.

Now, what's wrong with that?

They aren't going to change.

Late.

[T Park]

and you have the history of having the brain size of a knat.


Once again Sequ, who was available that summer, that is BETTER, that the Spurs shouldve gotten?!?!?!?


QUESTION!

Waiting for answer oompy.