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ducks
06-06-2006, 02:58 PM
Mavs know all too well what they're up against with O'Neal
By JAIME ARON, AP Sports Writer

DALLAS (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal has always given himself colorful, timely nicknames. With his Miami Heat about to open the NBA finals against the Dallas Mavericks, here's a new one he could consider: The Mavs Masher.

He certainly has the numbers to back it up.

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Over 36 career games against Dallas, O'Neal has averaged 29.3 points. That's his most against any team and it's tops of any player who has ever faced the Mavericks more than six times.

O'Neal also has been good for 12.2 rebounds per game against them, which ranks near the top of all Dallas foes while being only a half-board per game above his leaguewide average.

Dooming as it all may sound, the stats come with a disclaimer: Most were rung up against the likes of Shawn Bradley and other helpless defenders. Those guys may have had O'Neal's height or bulk, but none had both -- and many had neither.

The Mavericks are better equipped this time around, with a pure center tandem of DeSagana Diop and Erick Dampier. They won't stop O'Neal, but Dallas coach Avery Johnson is hoping that together they might be able to slow the Diesel.

"You need bodies," Johnson said Monday. "We've got two big bodies now."

The O'Neal-Dampier matchup comes with an interesting back story.

Two summers ago, when O'Neal was being shopped by the Los Angeles Lakers, the Mavericks dreamed of finally plugging their gaping hole in the middle by adding the ultimate big man. He liked the idea of going to Dallas, too, but the Lakers weren't about to send him to a conference rival, so he wound up on the other coast. Dallas ended up lavishing a huge contract on Dampier.

Around that time, Dampier proclaimed himself the second-best center in the NBA, presumably behind the Big You-Know-Who.

Whether those things were factors or not, Shaq began a war of words with Dampier the next time they met in Dallas. The Mavs won a tight game, with Dampier forcing O'Neal into two late misses. Afterward, O'Neal said: "Damp is soft. Quote it, write it, tape it and send it to him. I tell you, there's nothing there."

Then, when Dampier struggled in the playoffs last year, O'Neal used him as a punch line, saying that a leg injury was causing him to play "like Erick Dampier."

O'Neal is taking the high road now, saying he was just messing around back then.

"He's a good center, been playing well, him and Mr. Diop, they've been playing very well," O'Neal said. "We ain't going to make this series about words. It's two organizations that have never been there, two classy organizations. We're going to do this the right way and just duke it out on the basketball court."

Dampier also would rather settle things under the basket instead of in print.

"I think that's behind us now," he said. "We're both trying to win a world championship. I don't need any motivation. Just go out and play."

Dampier stressed the importance of beating O'Neal down the court, then preventing him from getting to his favorite spots on the floor. That basically means pushing him as far from the basket as possible. He also noted that it won't be easy since O'Neal gets the ball so often.

However Dallas defends O'Neal, it won't be a gut decision. The Mavs often base their lineups on statistical analysis of their opponent's various lineup combinations, so they know which type of player is best suited to be on the court at a specific time.

In the Western Conference finals, Dallas used the more athletic Diop and other smaller, quicker players because the Phoenix Suns didn't use a true center. Dampier was limited to 24 minutes over six games; the fact Shaq didn't crack wise about that shows he's on his best behavior.

"Even though I had lot of games of rest, I should be ready for this series," Dampier said. "I kept a good attitude. I tried to still work at practice, keep myself in game shape."

Veteran Jerry Stackhouse said the Mavericks can't worry too much about O'Neal. He even supported that contrarian view with a strong reference point: Tim Duncan.

The Big Fundamental, as O'Neal dubbed him, averaged 32.3 points and 11.7 rebounds per game against Dallas in the second round, but the Mavericks won the series.

"Shaq's going to get points, he's going to get some easy opportunities, just don't get discouraged about that," Stackhouse said. "We didn't get discouraged by Tim Duncan. Those are just things that can happen. True dominant players are going to find a way to get their numbers. We have to find a way to control the other guys."

One thing Duncan and Diop must especially avoid is foul trouble. Third-string center D.J. Mbenga is suspended from the first four games, leaving spindly Keith Van Horn or Dirk Nowitzki as the next option.

Of course, fouling O'Neal isn't such a bad thing considering how poorly he shoots free throws. It's worth noting that the Hack-a-Shaq strategy was started by Dallas, when Johnson's predecessor Don Nelson was at his wit's end trying to stop O'Neal from, well, mashing the Mavs.

Extra Stout
06-06-2006, 04:48 PM
The Mavs probably will let Shaq go nuts a little while focusing on containing Wade and the role players.

Lebowski Brickowski
06-06-2006, 05:11 PM
I loved it when Shaq called Damp...



"... the 2nd best center in the WNBA"
:lmao :lmao :lmao

mavsfan1000
06-06-2006, 05:26 PM
Dampier=Shaq stopper. It is getting annoying how much hype Shaq gets. At this point in his career Shaq is about at the level of Josh Howard. Wade has been incredible though. He is the guy Dallas should be worrying about.

ChumpDumper
06-06-2006, 05:28 PM
Dampier=Shaq stopper.
:lmao :lmao :lmao

MissAllThat
06-06-2006, 06:06 PM
One thing Duncan and Diop must especially avoid is foul trouble. Third-string center D.J. Mbenga is suspended from the first four games, leaving spindly Keith Van Horn or Dirk Nowitzki as the next option.

Am I the only one that noticed this? Biggest compliment Dampier will ever get.


The Big Fundamental, as O'Neal dubbed him, averaged 32.3 points and 11.7 rebounds per game against Dallas in the second round, but the Mavericks won the series.

"Shaq's going to get points, he's going to get some easy opportunities, just don't get discouraged about that," Stackhouse said. "We didn't get discouraged by Tim Duncan. Those are just things that can happen. True dominant players are going to find a way to get their numbers. We have to find a way to control the other guys."

As for this, one more point the other way in games 3 or 4 or no stupid foul by Manu in game 7 and San Antonio wins the series. This is not really a safe strategy to go on.

NBA Junkie
06-06-2006, 10:30 PM
The reason Shaq wasn't traded to Dallas wasn't because of the Lakers not wanting to trade him to a division rival, but, because the Lakers wanted Dirk Nowitzki in the potential trade. Dallas wisely said no, and the rest as they say is history.

NBA Junkie
06-07-2006, 08:00 AM
If a small center like Boris Diaw can average 24 points a game versus Dallas in the WCF, imagine what kind of damage Shaq could do to the Mavs if he stays out of foul trouble, even if he is double-teamed.

bulletedge
06-07-2006, 08:34 AM
Diaw got a lot of his points off of midrange jumpers- a weapon that Shaq doesn't have in his arsenal. Boris can shoot free throws, too.

NBA Junkie
06-07-2006, 08:44 AM
True, I'll concede that. But, what about Duncan and his 32 ppg against Dallas? Many of those buckets were inside shots, and Duncan was at center due to the small ball line-up the Spurs were forced to play.

Shaq may not hit FT's, but could score a ton if Wade and their three-point shooters (Walker, Posey,Williams) can spread the floor to ward off the constant double-teaming he's sure to see!

windboy226
06-07-2006, 09:05 AM
True, I'll concede that. But, what about Duncan and his 32 ppg against Dallas? Many of those buckets were inside shots, and Duncan was at center due to the small ball line-up the Spurs were forced to play.

Shaq may not hit FT's, but could score a ton if Wade and their three-point shooters (Walker, Posey,Williams) can spread the floor to ward off the constant double-teaming he's sure to see!

I think there's no way that Shaq goes off on the Mavs like Duncan did. Duncan hit a lot of his shots but also got a ton of free throws in the series(and actually shot decently from the line). Shaq makes Duncan look like Nowitzki from the line. I think on his best days now he'll have 25/15. I'd be pretty surprised if he averages 25 for the series. At this point in their careers, Duncan is a much better player than Shaq. Damp and Diop should be able to do a servicable job on him(something like 22ppg 11 rebounds).

leemajors
06-07-2006, 09:10 AM
shaq is very scary when he's actually motivated, and he knows his next ring is within reach. dampier cannot stop a motivated shaq- maybe an early or midseason shaq, but not at this time of the year. i predict a huge series from him, and wade. hopefully for them the supporting cast can do enough to help them win the series.

Shank
06-07-2006, 09:26 AM
Playoff Shaq has lower numbers than Regular Season Shaq.

mabber
06-07-2006, 09:35 AM
The reason Shaq wasn't traded to Dallas wasn't because of the Lakers not wanting to trade him to a division rival, but, because the Lakers wanted Dirk Nowitzki in the potential trade. Dallas wisely said no, and the rest as they say is history.

Dirk's name never even came up in the 2 minute discussion Cuban had with the Lakers front office. It really was about (according to Cuban) the Lakers not wanting to deal Shaq to a western conference team. Even if you choose to not believe Cuban, I don't see why he wouldn't let everyone know (especially now) that they didn't get Shaq cuz he wouldn't trade Dirk for him. Cuban just recently talked about this on local radio and said he didn't even think the Lakers were listening to him during his offer which lasted about 2 minutes.

Mavschick
06-07-2006, 09:56 AM
I think there's no way that Shaq goes off on the Mavs like Duncan did. Duncan hit a lot of his shots but also got a ton of free throws in the series(and actually shot decently from the line). Shaq makes Duncan look like Nowitzki from the line. I think on his best days now he'll have 25/15. I'd be pretty surprised if he averages 25 for the series. At this point in their careers, Duncan is a much better player than Shaq. Damp and Diop should be able to do a servicable job on him(something like 22ppg 11 rebounds).

Don't you think there's a good chance that at least in some games Shaq will get Diop and Dampier in foul trouble? Then we might be in trouble because M'Benga will be gone until he finishes his suspension and we'll have no one who can take Shaq on size-wise.

bulletedge
06-07-2006, 09:56 AM
True, I'll concede that. But, what about Duncan and his 32 ppg against Dallas? Many of those buckets were inside shots, and Duncan was at center due to the small ball line-up the Spurs were forced to play.

Shaq may not hit FT's, but could score a ton if Wade and their three-point shooters (Walker, Posey,Williams) can spread the floor to ward off the constant double-teaming he's sure to see!

I agree that if the Heat are hitting from the three point line Dallas is in big trouble. I imagine thay will have at least one or two games where they WILL be hot from outside.

I still think the key to Dallas winning is to run the ball hard and beat Shaq down the court.

Of course, the refs and foul trouble are always a wild card. They will (unfortunately) impact the outcome of at least a couple of games.

mabber
06-07-2006, 10:02 AM
Don't you think there's a good chance that at least in some games Shaq will get Diop and Dampier in foul trouble? Then we might be in trouble because M'Benga will be gone until he finishes his suspension and we'll have no one who can take Shaq on size-wise.

I think the Mavs are gonna use up some of Van Horns 6 fouls on Shaq for what it's worth. He can hack Shaq just as easily as M'Benga can. M'Benga would be used the same way if he was available cuz the refs are gonna call a foul on him for just touching Shaq since he's so young. That's just the way it is.

resistanze
06-07-2006, 10:04 AM
NBA Finals Shaq is a different story, at least historically.

I don't know why anyone would think of underestimating Shaq in this stage of the season. Thank god some of you guys aren't running the Mavs. :lol

bulletedge
06-07-2006, 10:11 AM
I don't know why anyone would think of underestimating Shaq in this stage of the season. Thank god some of you guys aren't running the Mavs. :lol

I don't think many are underestimating Shaq. But Shaq is not unbeatable at this point in his career. Shaq will have some great games but that is why they play seven.

I think it could go either way but I don't think it will be an easy series win for either team.

Islymore
06-07-2006, 10:29 AM
ive seen shaq turn it on and off... and he's had it on so far this playoff run.
but i dont think shaq can keep up like he's convinced he can and i dont think the heat can slow dallas down. they might get hot from the outside shot, but im waitin on a game where JET gets hot. im waitin on a night were even KVH decides to show up and get hot. any game is on any team.... if waitin on the team to "get hot".

shaq will get plenty of points... i would let him have his fun... and i would worry about containin the other shooters on the heat team, like wade, jwill, walker, and whoever else. keep the others from scoring, shaq cant beat the mavs by himself. get shaq in foul trouble on our offensive end and dont go crazy foulin him on the defensive end.

Shank
06-07-2006, 10:46 AM
Shaq regular season - 20 pts/9 boards in 30 minutes. Post-season - 20 pts/10 boards in 32 minutes. His Roland Rating (per 82 games) has actually declined from 11.6 during the regular season to 10.2 in the playoffs.

Sure, Shaq will get his. But let's not act like we're seeing him "turn it on".

Drive Like Jehu
06-07-2006, 11:10 AM
Only two teams have eliminated Shaq from the playoffs, the Spurs and a Larry Brown coached Pistons team.

I recall the Pistons defeating Shaq's Lakers after Pop and Larry had some "olympic" strategy talks before the Lakers-Pistons final.

If I were AJ, I'd call Pop and then review some of the tape from the past several playoffs.

I believe fronting Shaq in the post is one of the adjustments both Pop and Larry have made against Shaq in the playoffs. Both David Robinson and Ben Wallace had the size and mobility to effectively front Shaq.

Of course, AJ may not have the choice to front Shaq with either of them. Diop and Dampier may not have the mobility to stay in front of Shaq and deny him the ball. If they can't front Shaq, I would have serious concerns if I were a Mavs fans. We all know what Shaq can do once he has the ball, regardless of who is seperating him from the basket.

NBA Junkie
06-07-2006, 11:17 AM
Dirk's name never even came up in the 2 minute discussion Cuban had with the Lakers front office. It really was about (according to Cuban) the Lakers not wanting to deal Shaq to a western conference team. Even if you choose to not believe Cuban, I don't see why he wouldn't let everyone know (especially now) that they didn't get Shaq cuz he wouldn't trade Dirk for him. Cuban just recently talked about this on local radio and said he didn't even think the Lakers were listening to him during his offer which lasted about 2 minutes.

I'm just going by what the media outlets were reporting during that time, most notably, ESPN who maintained that Shaq would not be traded to the Mavs unless Dirk was included in the deal. How shocking it would be if ESPN were just fabricating rumors for the sake of selling insider subscriptions. :lol

I think all Cuban was offering was Antawn Jamison and a sign-and-trade for the rights to UFA Steve Nash. He probably made it clear before swapping proposals that Dirk was off-limits, hence the two minute call.

strangeweather
06-07-2006, 11:42 AM
I think the Mavs are gonna use up some of Van Horns 6 fouls on Shaq for what it's worth. He can hack Shaq just as easily as M'Benga can. M'Benga would be used the same way if he was available cuz the refs are gonna call a foul on him for just touching Shaq since he's so young. That's just the way it is.
Van Horn fouling Shaq is an automatic and-1.

mabber
06-07-2006, 01:25 PM
Van Horn fouling Shaq is an automatic and-1.

Sadly...that is probably true. :depressed

mavsfan1000
06-09-2006, 03:42 PM
Dampier=Shaq Stopper theory is correct after 1 game. Shaq had 17 points and 7 rebounds and most came with Diop on the court.