NBA has changed

[Supergirl]

And not for the better.

When in NBA history have the two teams in the NBA Finals both returned with virtually the same rosters and both been ousted before the Finals the next year? I can't think of a time.

But we all know the NBA Finals last year were a disaster financially for the NBA, and so the rules have shifted just enough to make the game harder for the Spurs and the Pistons. The refs called the game to make it harder for teams to play good D, and the Mavs shot the ball better and grabbed more rebounds. Same with the Pistons/Heat series. The game has changed to produce more offense, and that benefits teams like the Mavs and the Suns and the Heat more.

Apparently this is what sells more tickets, so maybe I'm in the minority for feeling disappointed by this. What I LIKE in basketball is good, hardnosed defense. But, as a Spurs fan, I want the Spurs to change, so they can win back their title.

[clambake]

Spurs scored alot of points. Are you saying change the way they score?

[MissAllThat]

Apparently this is what sells more tickets, so maybe I'm in the minority for feeling disappointed by this. What I LIKE in basketball is good, hardnosed defense. But, as a Spurs fan, I want the Spurs to change, so they can win back their title.

I'm not gonna lie, when the Suns are shooting at a high percentage and making all those crazy shots they take, its fun to watch. Those high scoring games are exciting. The only problem is none of the high scoring teams can keep up that insane field goal percentage consistently for a whole game. When I watch them play and they get into a shooting drought its the most awful thing I've ever seen. Its not like the reason they're missing is because of good defense by the other team; its just that they can't hit their shots.

[mavsfan1000]

Excuses once again. The spurs were unstoppable on offense. How does that not help their chances as well? You can't touch Duncan without a foul called.

[J.T.]

You can't touch Duncan without a foul called.

But you can't LOOK at Dirk without a foul called. And in contrast, Dirk could hack someone over the back with a pickaxe and not get called for a foul. It's fucking pathetic.

[clambake]

Maybe the nba will change the way they call games. Refs can't make everyone happy.

Touch duncan, no foul. Look at dirk, no foul. Do you like these changes?

[ChumpDumper]

And once again, Mavfan meets the whine of the Spurfan with a whine of his own. The circle completes and continues....

[MissAllThat]

Excuses once again. The spurs were unstoppable on offense. How does that not help their chances as well? You can't touch Duncan without a foul called.

Yeah, you're right. Dirk stepped on Duncan at the end of Game 4 and the foul was called. ON DUNCAN. I guess those really are the NBA rules.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

its so satisfying that Spurs fans finally get to feel what the rest of the NBA feels when they play the Spurs :lol

it got downright annoying when playing the Spurs coz Duncan would get all the calls and now the tide has changed and look at the Spurs fans whine :smokin

[clambake]

Spurs don't need to change anything, really. Luck runs in cycles. so does coaching.

[CubanMustGo]

Geez, guys, enough already. All this whining is making us look even worse.

[clambake]

I am a fan of another team and I, too, am ignorant. Me likey to watch baseketball go in round hooplike object. It go in many more time than spursy ball go in. Me also likey man in zebra shirt with good eyesight. What else I need know?

[himat]

I don't get why Tim Duncan gets screwed by the refs when he play Dirk though? Tim Duncan has accomplished much more and I'd take Duncan over Dirk to start a franchise. Tim Duncan is a better defender too so shouldn't he get less fouls called on him on defense at least?

[miss paxton]

Touch duncan, no foul. Look at dirk, no foul. Do you like these changes?

Yes, actually. I prefer games that are not over-officiated. I didn't pay to see the referees, and I particularly hate parades to the free throw line in the fourth quarter.

I checked nba.com for the free throws attempted through the semis. Duncan was #1 with 90 FTA, Nowitzki #2 with 80. Unless I'm misreading the stats--possible, because this certainly isn't an area of expertise for me--that's not a big difference, particularly given the style of their games. Of course, Duncan doesn't benefit from going to the FT line because he's not very good at them. I do have a problem with just comparing raw numbers, i.e., number of fouls, because to me there are always other issues: (1) when were the fouls called--was one team allowed to play catch-up from the line, for example; (2) which players were in foul trouble, i.e. somebody important, or a scrub; (3) how much did intentional fouling skew the numbers; and (4) did the officiating in some way alter the flow of the game?

It would be nice not to have to discuss officiating at all. Failing that, I'd like to be able to discuss it without drawing the following accusation: any discussion of officiating means you're a weak, blind homer and can't accept that your team lost. I think the officiating was bad in the semis, but the Spurs had a chance to win every game at the end except Game 2. That's all I can ask for. They didn't execute properly at the end of games and it cost them.

[clambake]

Good post. Miss paxton....if you are who you say you are. I'm a mav fan so you should bite my head off. I'm going to be watching you.

Honesty says duncan was only foul about 12 times.
Dirk was fouled at least 110 times. Having said that, I don't trust the officials.

[JealousOnesNV]

There have been some subtle changes in the rules. Watch how moving screens arent called around the top of the key during the finals. The star players have always benefited from the refs whistle though, so thats nothing new. But the subtle changes have opened up the lane for more drives to the basket which opens up the offense. Its good for the game and defensive minded teams will adjust. With that said though the rule changes have nothing to do with the Spurs and Pistons not returning to the finals. Spurs got beat by a good team that was equal to them and the Pistons didnt bring it for some reason. They looked like shit since game 5 vs the Bucks IMO.

[TheSanityAnnex]

And once again, Mavfan meets the whine of the Spurfan with a whine of his own. The circle completes and continues....
So true.

The whining from both sides is awful. Sack up and accept the changes or find a different sport to watch.

[TDMVPDPOY]

nba is only lookin at big market teams, but most of there marketing stats is from america, they dont take stats from outside of america. And plus coverage of nba is limited in other countries, not many ppl will pay for cable tv etc....

im pretty sure the spurs/pistons series attracted alot of views from outside of america.

[Brutalis]

Dirk gets away with anything. That's why he didn't get MVP. Fucking crybaby bitch.

[Darrin]

Excuses once again. The spurs were unstoppable on offense. How does that not help their chances as well? You can't touch Duncan without a foul called.

Do you know of any other player that has shot 69% in a playoff series? 81 points in a game? 3 players over 30 PPG for the season? A point guard shooting over 50% from the field?

The game has changed. Consider it a falsehood and an excuse all you want, but even David Stern will admit that he tinkered with the rules to get the football out of basketball. The rules on the perimeter are different than two years ago, plain and simple. This leads to higher percentage baskets for fear that the defensive player will foul out of the game.

No one plays defense anymore. Teams that do it longer than 5 minute stretches find themselves on the chopping block. Period.

As a fan, you have to choose if this is what you want to watch in basketball. Each individual team will have to adapt or die. I'm much more impressed by John Starks getting 40 points in 1994 than Kobe getting 80 in 2006 because of the rules.

If every night was a defensive slugfest, setting records in low field goal percentage and combined points per game, then this is the opposite. No one's record is safe in the NBA now, with the exception of Wilt Chamberlain.

[Darrin]

There have been some subtle changes in the rules. Watch how moving screens arent called around the top of the key during the finals. The star players have always benefited from the refs whistle though, so thats nothing new. But the subtle changes have opened up the lane for more drives to the basket which opens up the offense. Its good for the game and defensive minded teams will adjust. With that said though the rule changes have nothing to do with the Spurs and Pistons not returning to the finals. Spurs got beat by a good team that was equal to them and the Pistons didnt bring it for some reason. They looked like shit since game 5 vs the Bucks IMO.

Actually, the rules changes affected the Pistons. I'm convinced it's why Larry Brown is in New York right now - he emphasized defense too much and our GM isn't stupid. That transition from a defensive team to the open offense left the Pistons with an identity crisis the first time they faced adversity in the playoffs.

To say the rules didn't affect who the Pistons signed, who the Pistons hired as coach, and the system they settled on, before this season - it's not true. No matter how indirectly or not, the rules changes led to the Pistons considering an offensive-minded coach.

[Darrin]

Geez, guys, enough already. All this whining is making us look even worse.

I'm not whining, but there's a noticable change in the game. People who watch the rim and the ball might think it's just a better offensive flow. I see missed defensive assignments that used to cause me to turn off the Dallas-Sacramento series after a game or so.

I'm a traditionalist - I want deep, capable teams with players filling traditional roles within the offensive and defensive scheme. And this generation's versitility would be used to compliment those traditional roles, thereby making them the best generation of players we have seen up to this point.

I want to see an actual center, whether he's scoring 20 points or not. I want to see a power forward who bangs on the block, even if he can hit the 18-20 footer (Tim Duncan, not Rasheed Wallace). I want to see a point guard that sets everyone up in thier spots, but doesn't get burned at the opposing end (Jason Kidd, not Steve Nash).

Otherwise, why send 5 guys down their to guard them anyway, if all they can do is give these players with amazing first steps, three steps to get by their defender?

I've come to the conclusion after being an active and almost obsessive participant in this league, that the NBA doesn't want me. Before, it was isolation plays and one-star teams that I couldn't take. I wasn't a fan of grind-it-out basketball every single night, but having teams of differing philosophies towards basketball made it interesting to see how teams won the games, who imposed their will, and what players could the best defense not stop. It was something I gained from the game I couldn't see from the highlights.

I could watch 72-70 with as much enthusiasm as 123-121. Learning to watch the action away from the basketball, the spacing between players, stopping plays and seeing who's choice or lapse caused an open shot, these things made the game more fun. Now, it's an endless series of drive and kick, no defensive player stopping the first drive until it hits the paint. Moving without the basketball is back, but ball denial is gone. The layup line has been re-installed at the expense of shot-blocking. I've never seen so many goaltending calls in my life.

I'm all for more run-and-gun. I like to watch the ball in transition. Nothing is prettier in sports. The Princeton offense is a close second. It's an agressive form of offense, and I like agressive basketball - on both ends of the floor. Passing is the most efficent way of getting an open shot. If a defense is allowed to know and have time to adjust to where the ball always is, they are playing into the defense.

The nature of the rules will give an advantage to either A) the defensive player or B) the offensive player. All the NBA has done is emphasize the offensive end. It not only takes away defensive options in terms of not committing a foul, but it also limits that player's agressiveness because they are always thinking about what they can or cannot do to Dwyane Wade or Lebron James. That split second of indecisiveness is all the quick, powerful player needs.

The refs have been crazy this season, and last year, too. Any touching isn't allowed. Basketball has always been a contact sport. Anyone who says differently has never played basketball. And what the NBA has essentially done is take away the contact. It can be entertaining to 6 Billion people around this world, but this basketball fan, someone who's watched the NBA religiously for 70% of his life, finds this mess exactly that - a mess - and something I don't plan on watching.

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

MJ won games on the with a jumpshot certain teams now are winning it at the line

[JealousOnesNV]

Actually, the rules changes affected the Pistons. I'm convinced it's why Larry Brown is in New York right now - he emphasized defense too much and our GM isn't stupid. That transition from a defensive team to the open offense left the Pistons with an identity crisis the first time they faced adversity in the playoffs.

To say the rules didn't affect who the Pistons signed, who the Pistons hired as coach, and the system they settled on, before this season - it's not true. No matter how indirectly or not, the rules changes led to the Pistons considering an offensive-minded coach.Didnt say anything about the rule changes affecting with happened off the court for the Pistons. But that has nothing to do with why the Heat beat them. The Heat were the more aggressive team. The Pistons had about a 2 to maybe 3 week stretch of bad basketball. Flip didnt develop his bench. Mainly they missed open shot after open shot. Could have used a post game and a guard who can drive to the basket. Hopefully they will address those needs in the off season.

[Darrin]

Didnt say anything about the rule changes affecting with happened off the court for the Pistons. But that has nothing to do with why the Heat beat them. The Heat were the more aggressive team. The Pistons had about a 2 to maybe 3 week stretch of bad basketball. Flip didnt develop his bench. Mainly they missed open shot after open shot. Could have used a post game and a guard who can drive to the basket. Hopefully they will address those needs in the off season.

The Pistons hit the wall and had an identity crisis because they got away from something successful in the league because of how the league is officiating. I say again, however indirectly, the rules helped knock the Pistons off this year.

[TheSanityAnnex]

MJ won games on the with a jumpshot certain teams now are winning it at the line
Your sig line shows what an ignorant piece of shit you really are.

[RonMexico]

Do you know of any other player that has shot 69% in a playoff series?

Yes, Kareem did it twice - once for Milwaukee and once with the Lakers during championship runs. I think there were two others in the 50s as well, but I don't have time to look it up.



81 points in a game?

Yes, Wilt Chamberlain had 100 in a game and shot 32 free throws in that game (making 28)



3 players over 30 PPG for the season?

The most recent year I remember such a thing happening is 1988 where it was:

Jordan - 35 ppg
Wilkins - 30.7 ppg
Bird - 30.0 ppg



A point guard shooting over 50% from the field?

Bob Cousy would shoot over 50% consistently and I think Oscar Robertson did it once as well. The most recent one to do it was Mark Price in the 90s (he shot 50% from the field, 40% from 3, and 90% at the line).



This isn't the first time the league office has "tinkered with the rules" to change the game - in the late 70s, Larry O'Brien (the one the Championship trophy is named after) wanted to clean up the game and make it more marketable to the population again after a string of fights, brawls, too much physical play, and overall bad basketball. The merger with the ABA was an important step, while increasing the terms of suspensions and fines for cheap fouls and fights was another, and changing the rules to create a more open game. Combine this shift with the emergence of legendary players (Bird, Jordan, Magic, Wilkins, etc.) and suddenly "showtime" basketball was born in the 1980s and its popularity skyrocketed (and I'm sure you know that your Detroit Pistons were involved in the highest scoring NBA game of all time in 1984 against the Denver Nuggets). Some of the rules this year I'm sure are to force people to play defense the way it was meant to be played - by moving your feet, jumping in passing lanes, and using your hands to distract the offensive player... still, you see so many players using the patented Karl Malone style slap down at the ball, which is a lazy way out of it - as is pushing the player with your hands or holding them as they drive... these are all things that have been addressed.

In essence, one could argue that the game has changed back to the way it should be played, just as soon as they could argue that its a departure from the Pat Riley/Larry Brown/Jeff Van Gundy defensive borefests of the 1990s. You try to come off as impartial, but your Detroit bias and sting of losing in the Eastern Conference Finals is clouding your argument a little. I'll be the first to admit that the NBA motto has changed from "I love this game" to "Can't Look at Dirk" because the superstars are getting some incredible treatment these days and making it very hard for the defensive-minded teams in the league, but you can't say that is the sole reason why the Pistons lost this spring - they had countless other issues regarding chemistry and inability to hit big shots, not just problems guarding Dwayne Wade because of rule changes... I mean, when Wade hit that huge 3 pointer from the sideline, Tayshaun whacked his elbow and there was no call... then Wade drained the bucket... when a guy is that in the zone, sometimes there really is no chance of stopping him and the Pistons got out of their offensive rhythm developed over the course of the year and just couldn't answer at the other end all the time...

[Extra Stout]

Bob Cousy would shoot over 50% consistently...

What?

Bob Cousy was probably the worst shooter among elite players ever.

He never shot 40% for a season, let alone 50%.

[RonMexico]

What?

Bob Cousy was probably the worst shooter among elite players ever.

He never shot 40% for a season, let alone 50%.

Maybe I'm wrong - I had to go somewhere so I couldn't look it up, but it was something I'd heard

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Your sig line shows what an ignorant piece of shit you really are.


He's a blonde guy from Germany, there's no question.

[Shank]

Your sig = ban.

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Your sig = ban.


For what, stating a fact? HE'S A BLONDE FROM GERMANY. He has to have a great uncle/distand third cousin that fought in WW2.

[Shank]

Hmmm...where'd your sig go? Shocking that it's not there anymore.

[kalikot_boy_kr]

hahhahaha! mavs are just idiot to say again!

[Shank]

I hope we learned a little history lesson, I h8 Mavs Fans.

I H8 Mavs Fans wants you to see this (http://ih8mavsfans.justgotowned.com/)

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

I hope we learned a little history lesson, I h8 Mavs Fans.

I H8 Mavs Fans wants you to see this (http://ih8mavsfans.justgotowned.com/)


So you pulled a Cuban and bitched about me to the powers that be, I wouldn't expect less from a Mavs fan.

[Shank]

Do you really want to bring this shit out in the open? You'd do much better to keep it confined to the PMs.

Or do you want everyone to see how fucking stupid you really are? To say that any blonde German is automatically related to a member of the WW2-serving Nazi party is just asinine and baseless. It's a shame that the tax dollars of so many are paying for your poor education.

[SPARKY]

It's not exactly a conspiracy theory to postulate that the league has tried to change the rules in order to encourage additional perimeter scoring. Every offseason it seems as though there's a new rule change announced to do precisely that.

[SPARKY]

Do you really want to bring this shit out in the open? You'd do much better to keep it confined to the PMs.

Or do you want everyone to see how fucking stupid you really are? To say that any blonde German is automatically related to a member of the WW2-serving Nazi party is just asinine and baseless. It's a shame that the tax dollars of so many are paying for your poor education.

What is it with Mavs fans and PMing SpursTalk.com posters? Are you guys that lonely?

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Do you really want to bring this shit out in the open? You'd do much better to keep it confined to the PMs.

Or do you want everyone to see how fucking stupid you really are? To say that any blonde German is automatically related to a member of the WW2-serving Nazi party is just asinine and baseless. It's a shame that the tax dollars of so many are paying for your poor education.


So now you're going to use private messages as evidense, you must be a Mavs fan and Republican, that's two strikes right there.

[angryllama]

So now you're going to use private messages as evidense, you must be a Mavs fan and Republican, that's two strikes right there.

Did someone say...........SCOREBOARD?

Mavs 4
Spurs 3

Dirk put away Ginobili in Game 7 just like Shank put you away many times on this thread.

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

Dirk put away Ginobili in Game 7 just like Shank put you away many times on this thread.
Dicky B and Steve Jave were here?

[Darrin]

Yes, Kareem did it twice - once for Milwaukee and once with the Lakers during championship runs. I think there were two others in the 50s as well, but I don't have time to look it up.

We are talking about 7-1 center standing 3-15 feet from the basket, not a 6-3 guard.


Yes, Wilt Chamberlain had 100 in a game and shot 32 free throws in that game (making 28)

Yes, and it's happened once in 59 years of the NBA. And once again, we are talking about a player who is allowed to set up on the block 5-feet from the basket versus a 6-3 to 6-8 guard.

And the reason for the sudden an unprecedented impact of perimeter
players is how they are officiated. If you can offer some explanation, I'm open to it.

Player - 2005-06 FG% / 2003-04 FG% (PPG)
Kobe Bryant - .450 / .438 (+5.4 over career high in PPG).
Allen Iverson - .447 / .387 (+1.6 over career high in PPG).
Lebron James - .480 / .417 (+4.2 over career high in PPG).
Gilbert Arenas - .447 / .392 (+3.8 over career high in PPG).
Dwyane Wade - .495 / .465 (+3.1 over career high in PPG).
Paul Pierce - .471 / .402 (+.5 over career high in PPG).
Carmelo Anthony - .481 / .426 (+ 5.5 over career high in PPG).
Michael Redd - .450 / .440 (+2.4 over career high in PPG).
Ray Allen - .454 / .440 (+.6 over career high in PPG).
Vince Carter - .430 / .411 (Best scoring season since 2001-02).
Jason Richardson - .446 / .439 (+1.5 over career high in PPG).
Mike Bibby - .432 / .450 (+1.5 over career high in PPG).
Mike James - .469 / .446 (+7.9 over career high in PPG).
Joe Johnson - .453 / .430 (+2.9 over career high in PPG).
Rip Hamilton - .491 / .455 (+.1 over career high in PPG).
Richard Jefferson - .493 / .498 (lowest scoring season since 2003-04).
Ricky Davis - .448 / .459 (highest scoring season since 2002-03).
Wally Szczerbiak - .487 / .506 (+.3 over career high in PPG).
Tony Parker - .548 / .447 (+3.3 over career high in PPG).
Steve Nash - .512 / .470 (+1.0 over career high in PPG).
Chauncey Billups - .418 / .394 (+2.0 over career high in PPG).
Caron Butler - .455 / .380 (+2.1 over career high in PPG).
Sam Cassell - .443 / .488 (best scoring season since 2003-04).
Jason Terry - .470 / .417 (best scoring season since 2002-03).
Morris Peterson - .436 / .406 (+4.2 over career high in PPG).
Stephen Jackson - .411 / .425 (worst season since 2002-03).

I didn't just choose players at random - those are the perimeter players in the top 40 of NBA scoring for the 2005-06 season. All of the underlined players are the ones that DID NOT have CAREER HIGH IN PPG AND SHOOT A HIGHER PERCENTAGE IN 2005-06 VERSUS 2003-04. You'll start to notice a pattern with those players, too. They are either A) on deep teams with at least 3 top-tier scoring options or B) old or C) damaged goods.

The NBA used to favor the best offensive players in this league; they got a different whistle than everyone else. Well, Michael Jordan took that a step further in terms of what he was able to get away with. The NBA is handing out the Jordan treatment to any, any star with talent and a fanbase.

I was watching this Orlando-Detroit game in January of '05. Steve Francis didn't take 2 steps on a breakaway dunk, he didn't take 3 steps, he didn't take 4 steps, he took 5...AND IT COUNTED! I watched ESPN that night to see what they would do with it - they nominated it for a Top 10 Best Play.


The most recent year I remember such a thing happening is 1988 where it was:

Jordan - 35 ppg
Wilkins - 30.7 ppg
Bird - 30.0 ppg

We can admit that it's been 20 years, and that the trio of 2005-06 out-scored those three players?



Bob Cousy would shoot over 50% consistently and I think Oscar Robertson did it once as well. The most recent one to do it was Mark Price in the 90s (he shot 50% from the field, 40% from 3, and 90% at the line).

Can we admit that it's been 15 years and that it doesn't happen that often, but the NBA had TWO IN ONE SEASON, AND ALMOST A THIRD!


This isn't the first time the league office has "tinkered with the rules" to change the game - in the late 70s, Larry O'Brien (the one the Championship trophy is named after) wanted to clean up the game and make it more marketable to the population again after a string of fights, brawls, too much physical play, and overall bad basketball.

Simply because it's been done before - namely because of Rudy T almost dying from a basketball fight - doesn't mean that it needed to be done again. And it was actually less about the violence and more about drugs.

But fans started saying the same things I am saying - that all players cared about were their numbers AND the drugs. So it may have made for some exciting nerds some 15 years later, but it didn't work. All it did was make the cynics, cynical about something else.


The merger with the ABA was an important step, while increasing the terms of suspensions and fines for cheap fouls and fights was another, and changing the rules to create a more open game.

Hold on, Mexico. The NBA didn't start suspending players for fights until the 1990s. Document one player suspended for a fight - longer than 1 game - before 1990.


Combine this shift with the emergence of legendary players (Bird, Jordan, Magic, Wilkins, etc.) and suddenly "showtime" basketball was born in the 1980s and its popularity skyrocketed (and I'm sure you know that your Detroit Pistons were involved in the highest scoring NBA game of all time in 1984 against the Denver Nuggets).

It was actually 1983, but let's not confuse the facts in this story. The NBA's popularity sky-rocketed in an era where star players saw some very hard fouls. Big men were enforcers who would throw elbows into the chest of an opponent that was running all over them. Today, that would be considered a flagrant foul, and an immediate ejection.

The Bad Boys and the 1990s Knicks, Heat, and Bulls didn't invent the wheel, they just made it a larger part of their defensive attack, their mentality than teams had previously. There were no-calls in that era that would suspend players for 5 games in today's NBA.

And basketball grew because Boston and LA, two hugely popular and storied teams in large-markets inherited two superstars that would duel in 3 NBA Finals, and would make the television schedule as the Game of the Week as often as they could. Still, would you name the year the NBA Finals were taken off of tape-delay?



Some of the rules this year I'm sure are to force people to play defense the way it was meant to be played - by moving your feet, jumping in passing lanes, and using your hands to distract the offensive player... still, you see so many players using the patented Karl Malone style slap down at the ball, which is a lazy way out of it - as is pushing the player with your hands or holding them as they drive... these are all things that have been addressed.

Are you honestly telling me that there's more clutching and grabbing in a 2003-04 game than in 1996-97, 1992-93, 1988-89, 1985-86? What you're asking for is exactly what the NBA has given you - defense against the ball only, nothing to do with the opponent.


In essence, one could argue that the game has changed back to the way it should be played, just as soon as they could argue that its a departure from the Pat Riley/Larry Brown/Jeff Van Gundy defensive borefests of the 1990s. You try to come off as impartial, but your Detroit bias and sting of losing in the Eastern Conference Finals is clouding your argument a little.

And since that's purely an opinion since there is no right way to play, except to try to get the ball in their basket more than the opponent scores in yours, I find that an opinion more than a statement of fact. What you're essentially saying is that the NBA has to keep adjusting its rules to benefit the offensive players because the defense becomes too good at doing what is allowed on the court. I like the fact that you call me biased at the end of this speech.


I'll be the first to admit that the NBA motto has changed from "I love this game" to "Can't Look at Dirk" because the superstars are getting some incredible treatment these days and making it very hard for the defensive-minded teams in the league,

Why is that okay? Let's take money, for instance (since this what this is about anyway). We should give tax breaks to the wealthiest (if talent is money) simply because they are the wealthiest? What kind of screwed up system is that?

Unless you look at the NBA as an Entertainment business, it doesn't make sense. The better Dirk is the longer he is into the season, the more jersies he sells, the more popular he becomes, and the more people who didn't watch the NBA before may leave a Dallas Mavericks game on.


you can't say that is the sole reason why the Pistons lost this spring

I didn't.


they had countless other issues regarding chemistry and inability to hit big shots, not just problems guarding Dwayne Wade because of rule changes...

Chemistry issues from their coach having little-to-no idea of how to coach this veteran group in the playoffs. Chemistry issues because Saunders' never asserted his authority or he certaininly didn't keep it - because the Pistons' players are more qualified (Two trips to the Finals, an NBA Championship) than their coach is. Why did they change to Flip Saunders, and not a more experienced coach? Because the more experienced options had defensive mindsets, and Saunders' doesn't.

That's all I said - the rules affected who was at the helm when things went wrong, and the guy at the helm wasn't capable. I never said anything about "oh, the rules are the only reason the Pistons lost." I said it was a contributing factor. I said that trying to open up the offense left the Pistons with an identity crisis in the middle of the playoffs.


I mean, when Wade hit that huge 3 pointer from the sideline, Tayshaun whacked his elbow and there was no call... then Wade drained the bucket... [b]when a guy is that in the zone, sometimes there really is no chance of stopping him and the Pistons got out of their offensive rhythm developed over the course of the year and just couldn't answer at the other end all the time...

I'm not denying the greatness of Dwyane Wade. But I know the less defense that I play on a person, the more accurate their shots become. If I let them get in a rhythm, that gets them near "the zone," and if he gets there, the best defense in the world cannot stop his shots. That's my experience, what's yours? If Dwyane Wade is allowed to go wherever he wants to on the basketball court, then the defense is already at a disadvantage.

Believe me, I didn't start complaining about this in the 2006 Eastern Conference Finals. It's been a constant topic of discussion since the 2004-05 season started.

[RonMexico]

Darrin, sorry about typing 1984 instead of 83 - the numbers are right next to each other and I didn't proofread

also, I don't say that it's right for Dirk to get 24 FTs and foul out Tim Duncan when he runs into his ankle, so don't act like I did

lastly, if you're saying the rule changes were the catalyst for hiring Flip Saunders, whose presence was the main reason your team failed in the playoffs, then it's difficult not to assume that you think the rules were the primary ingredient to the downfall of the Pistons

Finals were off tape delay in 1980 I think, though I was only negative 3 years old at that time, so I'm not positive...

There is more grabbing and hand checking in today's game than in the mid-1980s because Larry O'Brien specficially cracked down on it in 1978 to clean up the game and make it a better overall show... back then, players stopped doing it and more teams had open offenses - kind of like what the Pistons tried to do this year... nowadays, players still grab and then just throw up their hands when they get called for it...

Yes, hard fouls were the norm, especially from Rick Mahorn and crew, but just because Stu Jackson is a tightwad now and is trying to "help the overall image of the game" by suspending players for way too long and for "intent" dosen't mean that the rules have changed - just the enforcement of them by the league office

A flagrant has almost always been a flagrant - just whether it's a level 2 or 1 is what may change depending on which refs are on the court...

It was about the violence AND the drugs - Kareem got suspended for 15 games the season that Kermit Washington punched Rudy T for smacking Kent Benson of the Bucks in the face - that sure seems like a fight to me... the difference now is the suspensions for players that come off the bench and that didn't go into effect until 1990, but you can't say that gets D-Wade 10 extra free throws and wide open jumpshots because of that...

You talk about your experience (I guess from your NBA career) being that a person gets more "in the zone" the more open his jumpshots are... my personal opinion (from my high school career where we won the state title as a senior) is that I actually shoot better with a hand in my face because it helps me focus on the rim faster... but don't take my word for it, ask Reggie Miller because he says the exact same thing... actually, don't ask Reggie cause he's an idiot and the worst thing to happen to TNT since Cheryl...

Dude the Suns had to deal with Kobe and Dirk in this playoffs and the way the officials treat them, so I have more than enough to complain about - especially when Dirk shoots more at the line than the Suns do as a team... and they were actually trying to attack the basket in the playoffs... when Nash is held by defenders on the perimeter all the time, it's hard for me to think that the rule changes alone are the reason for the shift in the game... I think it's the enforcement of those rules and who is on the officiating crew that dictates it... and which teams owner has $1.2 million in fines paid for complaining about the officiating...

[strangeweather]

Simply because it's been done before - namely because of Rudy T almost dying from a basketball fight - doesn't mean that it needed to be done again. And it was actually less about the violence and more about drugs.

But fans started saying the same things I am saying - that all players cared about were their numbers AND the drugs. So it may have made for some exciting nerds some 15 years later, but it didn't work. All it did was make the cynics, cynical about something else.
The NBA has monkeyed with the rules a number of other times as well. Think about what a drastic change the shot clock was. Thank about the addition of the 3-point line. Now nobody too young to remember the way it was before can imagine the NBA without these things.

I think some of the changes are good and some are bad. I think replacing the illegal defense call with the defensive 3-second violation was brilliant. The shot clock changes they've made have helped move the game along without taking anything significant away.

On the other hand, I think the way they're calling contact on perimeter players now is lame. Physical defense is part of basketball, and there's a big difference between things like hand checking that are a part of basketball and things like clotheslining a guy that can cause injuries.

[Darrin]

On the other hand, I think the way they're calling contact on perimeter players now is lame. Physical defense is part of basketball, and there's a big difference between things like hand checking that are a part of basketball and things like clotheslining a guy that can cause injuries.

Exactly. As rabid as I may get trying to drive it home, that is all I am saying about the rules. The change is so startling that I hardly recognize an NBA game anymore.

Sometimes that line gets crossed when there's physical defense, but that's still happened with today's rules. And, for whatever reason, the hard fouls have been a lot harder in these playoffs than in year's past.

[Darrin]

The NBA has monkeyed with the rules a number of other times as well. Think about what a drastic change the shot clock was. Thank about the addition of the 3-point line. Now nobody too young to remember the way it was before can imagine the NBA without these things.

I think some of the changes are good and some are bad. I think replacing the illegal defense call with the defensive 3-second violation was brilliant. The shot clock changes they've made have helped move the game along without taking anything significant away.

I'm not immune to the fact that the league has evolved. The arc on a blocked shot, the paint, the three-point line, the shot-clock - these were all invented with the intention of making the games better and more entertaining by stopping one individual player from dominating a game. How I think this is different, is that it actually creates more seperation between the more talented members of the league and the less talented. That's contrary to the way this system of changing the game has worked in the past.

Forcing the game to use the entire floor by creating a 3-point arc is controversial even to this day, but it served its purpose. This is yet another attempt to create more room for shots, to create an equalizer between big men and the little guys. But this did more than create a level playing field, the pendulum is now in the other direction. Quickness - more than talent, strength, and skill - is the ultimate weapon. The only skills needed involve passing - layups, moving without the ball, catch-and-shoot.

The game, for me, is boring now. There's no in-game adjustments, except to block the outlet pass in the backcourt. If basketball was a game of chess, it just became checkers. Somehow, they learned that they liked the Queen the best because she can move in all directions and created a board where only the Queen mattered. "They" can represent the fans, former players, the media, or the brass of the NBA because all of them played a role.

I liked the abolishment of the illegal defensive rules in 2001 because it effectively ended the full-court isolation play. As in - late in games - Pippen passes the ball into Jordan, he dribbles up the court, whatever side he comes up, the Bulls players stand on the other side to draw their defenders away from the ball so all Jordan has to do is break his man down.

Thanks to the new rules, that play is now back in. Steve Nash can drive from baseline to baseline, take a screen maybe, and lay it up into the basket.

Shortly before this change, it wasn't all about talent - it was about the right kind of talent. That's gone. If a player's not fast, don't let them on my team. This league used to be dominated by the 12 Wilts. Now, it's all about finding the 12 Michael Jordan's and that's not where my interest in this game lies. My interest is in balance between the two. And for awhile there, from about 2001-02 through 2003-04, it looked like I was going to get my wish. I could have meat and potatoes one night, choclate cake the next, even green beans and strawberries. The NBA was so diverse from team to team. That's the most frustrating part of this rules change. Because I think the product was the best I had seen it in...forever. I raved about the NBA like it's become chique to do right now.

So when these Finals are done, so am I. If I wanted to watch track-and-field, I would. No one, and I mean no one, who can't run the floor will have a future in this league. Yao Ming is never going to dominate the league the way people think. He's going to have to learn to run in transition or he's about 10 years too late to the party.

[strangeweather]

Shortly before this change, it wasn't all about talent - it was about the right kind of talent. That's gone. If a player's not fast, don't let them on my team. This league used to be dominated by the 12 Wilts. Now, it's all about finding the 12 Michael Jordan's and that's not where my interest in this game lies. My interest is in balance between the two. And for awhile there, from about 2001-02 through 2003-04, it looked like I was going to get my wish. I could have meat and potatoes one night, choclate cake the next, even green beans and strawberries. The NBA was so diverse from team to team. That's the most frustrating part of this rules change. Because I think the product was the best I had seen it in...forever. I raved about the NBA like it's become chique to do right now.

So when these Finals are done, so am I. If I wanted to watch track-and-field, I would. No one, and I mean no one, who can't run the floor will have a future in this league. Yao Ming is never going to dominate the league the way people think. He's going to have to learn to run in transition or he's about 10 years too late to the party.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think it's nearly that bad.

First of all, I have no problem with transition basketball. The transition game virtually vanished in the 90s, and I think basketball was poorer for it. Yes, it places a premium on mobility, but a well-built team can defend a good transition game -- look at the Dallas-Phoenix series, or last year's Spurs-Suns. Sure, there may be a lot of scoring, but it comes down to making key stops. There was a lot of running in the 80s, and most people had no problem with it then.

Yes, it means that the classic low-mobility center is at a significant disadvantage, but it works both ways. If you have a slower center like Shaq that can drop a bunch of points on you, he balances things out on the other end. If you have a guy like Rasho that isn't a big factor offensively, then he's going to be a liability against a team that runs. Duncan creates mismatches on offense and can stay with a good running team on defense. Ming isn't all that immobile either, and if the Rockets get smarter about how they get the ball in his hands, he's going to be able to school his man on the other end. Kareem, Wilt, Robinson, Olajuwon -- those guys could definitely have played this game and thrived under it.

Aside from the transition game, I think Stern has gone a little too far in outlawing defensive moves, but you can still defend your man. It puts a premium on guile, intelligence, and quickness, and discounts strength, especially on the perimeter. That's not great, especially for teams that were already built. But with some adaptation, you can still build a sound defensive team, even if the pace ramps up so much that in a couple of years, good defense means holding your opponent below 105.

The NFL is still really diverse. You have the Phoenix Suns, the crazy running team. You have classic halfcourt teams, who will fare fine as long as they can still get back in transition. You have teams like the Mavs that can play it either way, depending on the matchups. Along with that, you have classic post players like Duncan, Shaq, and Dwight Howard, who are still very effective. You have exciting Jordanesque slashers. You have a new Renaissance in outside shooting. The midrange jumper came back from the dead a few years ago, and it's here to stay. You have guys moving without the ball, penetrating and kicking, inside-out post passing, and plenty more.

That's massive diversity in the game. And even if the rules aren't perfect, it's still good basketball.

[JET_31]

Yea i dont like the way the nba is going with all the new rules designed to make it easier to score. You have guys like kobe scoring 81 because no one is allowed to breath on him while he drives, i was much more impressed with jordans 63 because back then the rules were different and it was much harder to score 50+ points in a game.

[747]

Yea i dont like the way the nba is going with all the new rules designed to make it easier to score. You have guys like kobe scoring 81 because no one is allowed to breath on him while he drives, i was much more impressed with jordans 63 because back then the rules were different and it was much harder to score 50+ points in a game.

Wrong. We dont have "guys" like Kobe scoring 81. We just have Kobe. Nobody else has even come close.

In regards to Kobe, and nobody being allowed to breath on him. Michael Jordan got his share of the calls as well, he is 3rd all time in free throws made in a season with 833.

[leemajors]

So you pulled a Cuban and bitched about me to the powers that be, I wouldn't expect less from a Mavs fan.


your sig was totally inappropriate, i was going to complain about it but when i got around to it it had already been removed. he may look like a prototypical aryan, but that is no reason to call him a nazi.

[JealousOnesNV]

2 mins into the game and guess what....A moving screen at the top of the key..No call.