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Nbadan
06-07-2006, 02:25 PM
FILM REVIEW; Tumult in Venezuela's Presidential Palace, Seen Up Close
By STEPHEN HOLDEN
Published: November 5, 2003, Wednesday


''The Revolution Not Be Televised,'' a riveting documentary, is not the movie that the Irish filmmakers Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Briain envisioned when they traveled to Venezuela to film a portrait of Hugo Chávez, that country's left-wing president. A volatile force in Latin American politics, Mr. Chávez, who was elected president by a landslide in 1998, was shaking up the status quo, having vowed to take control of Venezuela's oil industry and redirect its wealth to benefit the poor.

But on April 11, 2002, the filmmakers were firsthand witnesses to one of the shortest presidential overthrows in Latin American history. On that day a coalition of military officials and business leaders engineered Mr. Chávez's removal from power. He was arrested and held prisoner, and the national assembly was dissolved. An interim government was installed.

Two days later a popular uprising brought more than a million protesters to the streets of Caracas and forced the new government out of office. Mr. Chávez returned in triumph. The filmmakers were lucky enough to be in the presidential palace when he was removed, and they were there when he returned.

More than a scary close-up look at the raw mechanics of a power grab, the film is also a cautionary examination of the use of television to deceive and manipulate the public. The attempt to seize control never would have gotten off the ground without the fervent support of Venezuela's five private television stations, all politically aligned with oil interests that had hounded Mr. Chávez from the moment he took office. The only television station sympathetic to Mr. Chávez was the state-run channel, whose signal was immediately cut by the new government.

When I saw this part, I felt stunned, sickened, and shocked. Could NOT believe what I was seeing:

From the outset the opposition to Mr. Chávez was intense. His friendship with Fidel Castro was offered as proof that he was a communist, and one television commentator sneered that Mr. Chávez had a ''sexual fixation'' on Mr. Castro. Another declared him mentally ill.

NY Times Movie Review (http://movies2.nytimes.com/mem/movies/review.html?_r=1&res=9A05E3D7153BF936A35752C1A9659C8B63&oref=slogin)

Must see film you won't ever see on TV: Irish documentary covering the first attempted military coup of Hugo Chavez:

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144)

(1hour15min well spent, so grab some popcorn)

MaNuMaNiAc
06-07-2006, 04:24 PM
more than a million?? :lmao! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! it was a couple of thousand at the most! I know, I was living in Caracas at the time! The only reason Chavez was put back in power was because of international pressure and its unwillingness to negotiate with a government that was not democratic at the time. Chavez's rule is an insult to democracy, and if you extreme liberal dumbasses would quit trying to make him your poster boy for your "La Revolucion" you'd see it plain as day.

Just wait 10 more years, and when you look back at Venezuela and Chavez is still "President" and the country has gone down the toilet... who's going to be your poster boy then jackasses. This guy is Castro version 2.0, except with enough oil to fool people into thinking he's actually doing a decent job http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif, but what am I complaining to you for... you probably have the image of Che Guevara tattooed on your ass, the ultimate poster boy for the extreme left... ridiculous!

Nbadan
06-08-2006, 08:52 AM
Yes, because any country that does not fully cooperate with the U.S. is destined for ruin.

:rolleyes

GROW UP DUMBASS. This is the age of oil revenue driven wealthy states and last time I checked, Chavez had control of the 4th largest oil reserves in the world.

My question to you is, why would two independent Irish documentary-makers, with nothing to lose in the fight over who is President in Venezuela, embellish numbers or make claims that you say are 'unsubstantiated'? Exactly how much did you lose when Chavez announced his Boliverian government?

MaNuMaNiAc
06-08-2006, 12:18 PM
My question to you is, why would two independent Irish documentary-makers, with nothing to lose in the fight over who is President in Venezuela, embellish numbers or make claims that you say are 'unsubstantiated'?

The same reason your sorry ass seeks to glorify Chavez to support your leftist stand jackass! or is it that you think populism exists only in Venezuela and Ireland is excempt from its reach? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif


Exactly how much did you lose when Chavez announced his Boliverian government?
I didn't lose anything. Typical populist response by the way, one needs not to have lost in order to realize Chavez is a sociopath with nothing else in mind other than to further his own wealth at the cost of the Venezuelan people. Venezuela was in bad shape before Chavez, but its ten times worst now.

Nbadan
06-08-2006, 12:27 PM
Yes, because Chavez cracked down on his political critics and all the opposition members who tried to topple him, an offense that would have led to life in prison in the U.S. if not death, right? Where is Cordova? Where are the opposition members?

xrayzebra
06-08-2006, 02:50 PM
MaNuMaNiA I have much more respect for you now. Well said. And
you speak the truth. Once again to dan's consternation.

Nbadan
06-09-2006, 02:12 AM
Let's have some facts...


Prior to President Chavez' administration, there were hosts of political prisoners in Venezuela. Yet since Chavez has been in office, there have been no political prisoners. This is a fact documented by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, and even the US State Department's Country Report on Venezuela

CounterPunch (http://www.counterpunch.org/golinger03242004.html)

Nbadan
06-09-2006, 02:22 AM
Business is booming in Venezuela

Venezuela car sales rise 74 pct in May


CARACAS, Venezuela, May 6 (Reuters) - New car sales in Venezuela in May rose 74 percent compared with the same month in 2005, as strong oil revenues lifted Venezuela's economy, Venezuela's automotive chamber (CAVENEZ) said on Tuesday.

A total of 25,592 vehicles were sold in May compared with 14,716 in the same month in 2005. Car sales in May were 29.9 percent higher than April 2006 sales of 19,695 units.

Venezuela's economy grew 9.4 percent in first-quarter 2006 on soaring global crude prices and high government spending by leftist President Hugo Chavez, who has promised to fight poverty in the world's No. 5 oil exporter.

Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompanyNewsArticle.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-06-06T172247Z_01_N06412011_RTRIDST_0_VENEZUELA-AUTOS.XML&rpc=66)

Nbadan
06-09-2006, 02:25 AM
Human rights abuse in Venezuela?


The two major areas where the U.S. really digs in to human rights violations in Venezuela were (irony alert!) detainee abuses and wiretapping without a warrant. As Lily Tomlin once said, “No matter how cynical I get, it’s impossible to keep up.” Yes, the Venezuelan prisons are a brutal mess, and police corruption remains a huge problem throughout the country. But these systemic problems go back generations. It’s responsible and fair for the State Department to point them out, but in a context-challenged media environment, the implication that this is somehow unique to the Chavez administration is one even the most fervent opposition member would not make with a straight face.

Venezuelanalysis (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1691)

Nbadan
06-09-2006, 02:33 AM
Human rights abuse charges against Chavez refuted -


One of the principal get-out-the-vote leaders for the opposition, a Bush Administration ally named Maria Corina Machado, was present in Miraflores (the Venezuelan version of the White House) in the middle of the unsuccessful 2002 coup d’etat against President Chavez.<3> Her reasoning? She was invited to have tea with the wife of dictator-for-a-day Pedro Carmona, apparently without a thought given to the violence going on around her nor how her friend came to reside in the President’s home. And yet federal charges against Machado and her organization, Sumate, are singled out in the 2005 report as an example of political intimidation.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/images/20050531_p44959-105jasjpg-2-515h.jpg
Machado having tea with Dubya in the WH

whottt
06-09-2006, 02:45 AM
Holy shit...Manumania nuked Nbadan. Well done MM. Can you take out boutons next? I might return to the forum full time if you do.

Nbadan
06-09-2006, 03:37 AM
I might return to the forum full time if you do.

No thanks!

:lol

xrayzebra
06-09-2006, 09:39 AM
let's see 14 post, mine will be 15, 8 dan posted and 6 by all others.

Well done dan, you may have sit a new record for posting to yourself.

leemajors
06-09-2006, 09:57 AM
more than a million?? :lmao! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! it was a couple of thousand at the most! I know, I was living in Caracas at the time! The only reason Chavez was put back in power was because of international pressure and its unwillingness to negotiate with a government that was not democratic at the time. Chavez's rule is an insult to democracy, and if you extreme liberal dumbasses would quit trying to make him your poster boy for your "La Revolucion" you'd see it plain as day.

Just wait 10 more years, and when you look back at Venezuela and Chavez is still "President" and the country has gone down the toilet... who's going to be your poster boy then jackasses. This guy is Castro version 2.0, except with enough oil to fool people into thinking he's actually doing a decent job http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif, but what am I complaining to you for... you probably have the image of Che Guevara tattooed on your ass, the ultimate poster boy for the extreme left... ridiculous!

i saw this movie a few years ago in austin, it seemed pretty shocking. then again, a documentary can put whatever slant it wants to on an issue. they made it into a whole rich vs. the common man thing, and really made it seem like chavez was trying to protect the common man from the wealthy. it's nice to get the opinion of someone who actually lived there. i also saw bus 174 a few weeks after that, that was much more disturbing.

smeagol
06-09-2006, 03:05 PM
How the fuck can any intelligent person support Chavez is beyond understanding. Believe it or not, I consider Dan to be intelligent.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 02:21 AM
How the fuck can any intelligent person support Chavez is beyond understanding. Believe it or not, I consider Dan to be intelligent.

I never said I completely supported Chavez's form of politics, nor do I believe that everything is as black and white in Venezula as the documentary makers portray it to be. Nationalizing of oil supplies is never good for the world markets. However, I haven't seen anyone dispute that, good or bad, Chavez enjoys popular support in Venezuela. Something which we can only envy here in the U.S..

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 02:35 AM
Business is booming in Venezuela

Venezuela car sales rise 74 pct in May



Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompanyNewsArticle.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-06-06T172247Z_01_N06412011_RTRIDST_0_VENEZUELA-AUTOS.XML&rpc=66)

Well, I guess that means Iraq has turned out to be a total success and you'll be admitting the US has won the war. You know, now that increased car sales equal a booming economy and well run Government.



Car crazy in Iraq
By Beth Potter
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

Baghdad, Iraq, Mar. 30 (UPI) -- Traffic jams in the Iraqi capital are caused by new police checkpoints, old, broken-down cars, lines of customers waiting to fill up at the pumps, and, of course, the more than 426,000 new cars registered in the last two years.

That doesn't stop Iraqis with newly increased salaries from coming in to ogle cars and buy them, said Ahmed Mohammed 37, manager of the Salman Fak Car Trading lot near Baghdad's National Theater.

More than 900,000 cars have been registered across the country in the past two years, according to data from the Baghdad traffic department -- 426,000 of them from Baghdad. Before the war, about 347,000 cars were registered across the country, said Nejim Abid Jabir, a spokesman for the traffic department under the Interior Ministry.

"I want to buy a BMW, but my dad thinks I should get something more practical," said Annas al-Jabouri, 25, who walked with his father around the small cement lot with a fancy metal and stucco fence. He examined each of the 20 cars carefully. "It's a matter of price, but also a matter of style."

Cars just fly off the lot, probably 60 to 70 per month, said Mohammed, adding that he buys his inventory from Iraqis, fixes them mechanically and re-paints them before putting them up for sale. Late-model white or light-gray sedans -- from Toyotas and Chevys to Mercedes and BMWs -- are parked at a diagonal and backed up to the lot's edges.

"All models of Mercedes sell well, BMWs, cars from Korea," Mohammed said. "We sell so many, but it depends on the political situation. Right now, Kurds are coming in looking for four-wheel-drives for the mountains."

Iraq's Kurdish minority lives mostly in three northern provinces of Iraq. Kurdish political leaders took almost 30 percent of the vote in a Jan. 30 parliamentary election, giving them more power over central government issues than they had before, meaning more of them are in the capital in recent weeks. Politicians continued to wrangle behind the scenes Wednesday to choose the leaders that will head the new government, and that too will no doubt affect car sales.

On the street, drivers are more likely to favor a Hyundai over a high-end Mercedes, however. Sport-utility vehicles and sports cars are few and far between in the capital. Former president Saddam Hussein heavily taxed cars, making them unaffordable for all but a favored few. In addition, a program in which residents could pay money in for 10 years or so and then receive their car just now is starting to deliver the vehicles.

The interim government recently decreed that all pre-2000 car models would not be allowed in the country, panicking sellers in places like Jordan and Syria and driving prices up, Mohammed said. But most families keep about $20,000 cash in their houses, which means they can afford to buy a new car.

Since banks aren't working and most people already own their houses or live with their families, under Iraq's former socialist system, there's plenty of money to be spent on cars, al-Jabouri said.

"My friends know I can afford a car now, so they want me to buy one," said al-Jabouri, replying that he worked as a translator for a company when asked how he was able to save up the money.

Some Baghdad residents say cars are stolen from the Middle East and Europe, brought to a free-trade zone in the United Arab Emirates and given new papers. Many of the cars for sale seem suspiciously inexpensive -- mainly because there is no tax in Iraq at the moment, said Mohammed. Jabir denied the stolen car rumors were true.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 03:02 AM
Well, I guess that means Iraq has turned out to be a total success and you'll be admitting the US has won the war. You know, now that increased car sales equal a booming economy and well run Government.

You could look at it that way I suppose, however, if it wasn't for the U.S., the Maliki Government would not even exist in Iraq, much less be able to pay its bills. Wereas Chavez is enjoying record growth in Venezuela thanks to record gas prices and spending by the government (and he's not running deficits to do so).

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 03:04 AM
Let's have some facts...



CounterPunch (http://www.counterpunch.org/golinger03242004.html)

Yeah, the Police just kill them outright or try to threaten them into silence... much better.


http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/ven-summary-eng


There were reports of unlawful killings of criminal suspects by police. Most cases were not investigated and the perpetrators remained unpunished. The lack of independence of the judiciary remained a concern. Persistent social and economic inequalities continued to limit access to the economic and social rights of Afro-descendants and indigenous peoples.

Political polarization continued to be a destabilizing factor. There were continued concerns that critics of the government were being harassed, including through the criminal justice system. Some confrontations between supporters of President Chávez and the opposition took place before August municipal elections, which were won by President Chávez’ party, Movimiento V República.

There were continuing reports of human rights violations by the police, including unlawful killings of criminal suspects. In most cases an investigation was not opened and the alleged perpetrators were not brought to justice. According to statistics published by the Public Prosecutor’s Office in July, between 2000 and mid-2005, more than 6,100 people were killed by police in 5,500 incidents. Of the nearly 6,000 police officers implicated, only 517 were charged and fewer than 250 were under arrest.

The Commission of Internal Affairs of the National Assembly, the Human Rights Ombudsman and the Public Prosecutor’s Office received reports of killings by the police in Guárico, Aragua, Falcón and Carabobo states. The National Assembly expressed its commitment to investigate these allegations. In a report published in July, local human rights organizations warned of a pattern of killings, possible “disappearances” and kidnappings in six states (Anzoategui, Capital District, Falcón, Miranda, Portuguesa and Yaracay).

Victims of human rights violations, and their relatives, were reportedly threatened and intimidated by police.

The failure of the judiciary and the Public Prosecutor’s Office to guarantee impartial and effective redress mechanisms for victims of human rights violations undermined their credibility. According to reports, 98 per cent of human rights violations remained unpunished. Only a small proportion of judges and prosecutors were reportedly in permanent employment.

Human rights defenders continued to face harassment and intimidation.


http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530042006?open&of=ENG-VEN

Human rights defender Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci and her husband, Adolfo Martínez Barrios, were victims of an assassination attempt by unknown assailants in the State of Guárico on 21 April. They currently have no official protection or security and Amnesty International is concerned for their safety and that of their family. The attack appears to be linked to Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci’s accusations of human rights violations by the police in the State of Guárico.

The attackers shot at Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci and then, as her
husband attempted to drive her to hospital, they were followed and shot at with a sub-machine gun. Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci was first shot in the face. She received three other shots in the thorax, in the right arm and in the stomach. Her husband was also shot in three places, in the thorax, the left leg and the left arm. Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci's wounds were apparently so serious that she was transported to a hospital in the capital Caracas.

Having recovered from her wounds she first reported the attack to the Cuerpo de Investigaciones Científicas Penales y Criminalísticas (Criminal Investigations Unit) on 3 May and she then later also informed the Attorney General. To Amnesty International's knowledge no investigation into the attack is being carried out.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530082004?open&of=ENG-VEN

Venezuela: Human rights under threat
All parties involved in the political conflict in Venezuela must show real commitment to respecting the rule of law if they are to break the violence cycle. In a new report launched today, Amnesty International highlights cases of excessive use of force, torture and ill-treatment committed by security forces in the context of demonstrations that took place between February and March 2004 and raises serious questions about the commitment of key institutions to prevent and punish such abuses impartially.

At least 14 people died in these demonstrations in circumstances that have yet to be clarified. As many as 200 were wounded. Several of those detained were severely ill-treated or tortured by members of the security forces.

And plenty more where that came from, sure a nice guy like Hugo Chavez has nothing to do with any of that though... http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-ven/index

Guru of Nothing
06-10-2006, 03:06 AM
more than a million?? :lmao! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! it was a couple of thousand at the most! I know, I was living in Caracas at the time! The only reason Chavez was put back in power was because of international pressure and its unwillingness to negotiate with a government that was not democratic at the time. Chavez's rule is an insult to democracy, and if you extreme liberal dumbasses would quit trying to make him your poster boy for your "La Revolucion" you'd see it plain as day.

Just wait 10 more years, and when you look back at Venezuela and Chavez is still "President" and the country has gone down the toilet... who's going to be your poster boy then jackasses. This guy is Castro version 2.0, except with enough oil to fool people into thinking he's actually doing a decent job http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif, but what am I complaining to you for... you probably have the image of Che Guevara tattooed on your ass, the ultimate poster boy for the extreme left... ridiculous!


Sometimes it is better to STFU and listen.

For me, this is one of those times.

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 03:09 AM
However, I haven't seen anyone dispute that, good or bad, Chavez enjoys popular support in Venezuela. Something which we can only envy here in the U.S..

I was going to say that Saddam Hussein enjoyed 99% "popular support", but you would probably say that shows how great a guy he was and Iraq would be the perfect model of peace and prosperity if he was still in power.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 03:33 AM
I was going to say that Saddam Hussein enjoyed 99% "popular support", but you would probably say that shows how great a guy he was and Iraq would be the perfect model of peace and prosperity if he was still in power.

Now your comparing Chavez to Saddam Hussein?

:rolleyes

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 03:41 AM
Amnesty International (web.amnesty.org) courtesy of Wikipedia


Some contend that there are a disproportionate number of AI reports on relatively more democratic and open countries. This is the major source of the charge of "selection bias", with critics pointing to a disproportionate focus on allegations of human rights violations in for example Israel, when compared with North Korea or Cambodia.

Supporters claim that AI's intention is not to produce a range of reports which statistically represents the world's human rights abuses. Instead, its aim is (a) to document what it can, in order to (b) produce pressure for improvement. These two factors skew the number of reports towards more open and democratic countries, because information is more easily obtainable, these countries have usually made strong claims and commitments to uphold human rights, and because their governments are more susceptible to public pressure. AI also focuses more heavily on states than other groups. This is due in part to the responsibility states have to the citizens they claim to represent.

A tendency to over-report allegations of human rights abuse in nations that are comparatively lesser violators of human rights has been called "Moynihan's Law," after the late U.S. Senator and former Ambassador to the United Nations Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who is said to have stated that at the United Nations, the number of complaints about a nation's violation of human rights is inversely proportional to their actual violation of human rights.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International)

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 04:01 AM
So you're using Wikipedia to disprove reports that you yourself indicated as fact in an article from a left-wing newsletter that you posted the day before? Well, that makes perfect sense, I wouldn't expect anything less from Mr. Nbadan.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 04:12 AM
Would a point-by-point deconstruction of each of your quotes make you feel better?

From your post above:


Victims of human rights violations, and their relatives, were reportedly threatened and intimidated by police.

Point me to a Central or South American country that doesn't have corrupt police. So now we must hold Chavez to a standard we don't even hold Mexico?

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 04:22 AM
Point me to a Central or South American country that doesn't have corrupt police. So now we must hold Chavez to a standard we don't even hold Mexico?

So it doesn't matter what acts a National Leader are responsible for, as long as other leaders in neighbouring countries commit more or less equivalent acts? Then why do you spam the forum with dozens of heavily edited articles from newspapers and websites of dubious (at best) quality about the Bush Administration? Last I checked the United States of America was part of the Americas... But apparently you want to hold Bush to standard we don't even hold Mexico.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 04:23 AM
Human rights defender Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci and her husband, Adolfo Martínez Barrios, were victims of an assassination attempt by unknown assailants in the State of Guárico on 21 April. They currently have no official protection or security and Amnesty International is concerned for their safety and that of their family. The attack appears to be linked to Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci’s accusations of human rights violations by the police in the State of Guárico.

The only google hits on either of the names - Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci and her husband, Adolfo Martínez Barrios - were from the Amnesty International site. Not saying the attacks didn't happen, but if the international media hasn't bothered to run with the story, then why should the Attorney General investigate? Would Ashcroft have investigated if a political opponent of Dubya made these charges against the police? I doubt it.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 04:28 AM
So it doesn't matter what acts a National Leader are responsible for, as long as other leaders in neighbouring countries commit more or less equivalent acts? Then why do you spam the forum with dozens of heavily edited articles from newspapers and websites of dubious (at best) quality about the Bush Administration? Last I checked the United States of America was part of the Americas... But apparently you want to hold Bush to standard we don't even hold Mexico.

We should hold ourselves, and our police to the highest standard, not try and match the Mexican or Venezuelian police. All I was saying was that, it doesn't matter who heads Venezuela, there will always be corrupt police. Chavez is the President, not the police chief.

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 04:59 AM
The only google hits on either of the names - Maria del Rosario Guerrero Galluci and her husband, Adolfo Martínez Barrios - were from the Amnesty International site. Not saying the attacks didn't happen, but if the international media hasn't bothered to run with the story, then why should the Attorney General investigate? Would Ashcroft have investigated if a political opponent of Dubya made these charges against the police? I doubt it.

Yeah, because if it isn't on Venezuelanalysis it must not be true. So since Amnesty International is no longer trustworthy, are you going to retract all the times you've sourced Amnesty International? Like you did twenty posts earlier in this thread?

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 05:13 AM
are you going to retract all the times you've sourced Amnesty International? Like you did twenty posts earlier in this thread?

Why should I? I have nothing against Amnesty International. I just think that its a little difficult to make the jump from crooked police force to Chavez. I'm sure even the folks at Amnesty International can see that.

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 05:23 AM
Why should I? I have nothing against Amnesty International. I just think that its a little difficult to make the jump from crooked police force to Chavez. I'm sure even the folks at Amnesty International can see that.

Yeah, I guess it's too much to think that the leader of a country should involve himself with the massive corruption of his nation's police forces. I'm sure he has a hard time sleeping when the police crack open the heads of demonstrators who oppose him. But besides the fact that you could be killed with little or no justification, Venezuela is still the model of a peaceful and prosperous democracy.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 05:35 AM
Yeah, I guess it's too much to think that the leader of a country should involve himself with the massive corruption of his nation's police forces. I'm sure he has a hard time sleeping when the police crack open the heads of demonstrators who oppose him. But besides the fact that you could be killed with little or no justification, Venezuela is still the model of a peaceful and prosperous democracy.

If it was a widespread problem, like in some US-supported South and Central American countries, you can bet that Venezuela's private news media would use it to their advantage to attack Chavez. Just like they attempted to in the previous coup. Some of the masterminds of the previous coupt still lead the opposition in Venezuela, they aren't in jail.

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 06:03 AM
If it was a widespread problem, like in some US-supported South and Central American countries, you can bet that Venezuela's private news media would use it to their advantage to attack Chavez. Just like they attempted to in the previous coup. Some of the masterminds of the previous coupt still lead the opposition in Venezuela, they aren't in jail.

http://www.wan-press.org/article11198.html

The Americas

With more than 20 journalists behind bars in Cuba, media under threat in Colombia, and a photojournalist killed in Venezuela, the Americas have suffered a number of setbacks in press freedom in the past six months.

Cuba, with 24 journalists remaining in prison, is the hemisphere’s - and indeed one of the world’s - most notorious jailors of journalists. Twenty-three of them were victims of the March 2003 crackdown on the press. Many have developed serious health problems, creating increased concern over their general well being.

Legal attacks against freedom of expression continue in Venezuela, with a new law on social responsibility in radio and television, additional reforms of the penal code, and a spate of other new laws, decrees, rules and regulations to further restrict the independent media in the country.

In the United States, major internet companies continue to place profit ahead of principle, with Google being the most recent example of companies that have bowed to China’s rigid censorship laws in order to gain access to its market. In February, the search engine launched a Chinese web browser which has been censored to satisfy Beijing’s hard-line rulers.

http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/74397/

Relations between the authorities and the privately-owned press continue to be tense in Venezuela, where judicial proceedings have been initiated since the start of 2006 against 10 journalists under the December 2004 Law of Social Responsibility of the Broadcast Media and the March 2005 criminal code reform. By making it punishable to "insult" a public official, the criminal code reform undermines the ability of the press to play the role it should have in a democracy, which is to question and challenge the government. Nonetheless, no final sentence has yet been passed, and the context still favours a dialogue between government and media.

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 06:24 AM
Legal attacks against freedom of expression continue in Venezuela, with a new law on social responsibility in radio and television, additional reforms of the penal code, and a spate of other new laws, decrees, rules and regulations to further restrict the independent media in the country.

you mean like the patriot act?

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 06:26 AM
you mean like the patriot act?

What does the Patriot Act have to do with the press? What part of the Patriot Act addresses the media at all?

Nbadan
06-10-2006, 06:33 AM
What does the Patriot Act have to do with the press? What part of the Patriot Act addresses the media at all?

It is still unclear how or when the FBI's expanded wiretapping and warrantless search powers will affect journalists, but the Justice Department has shown that it intends to use its powers aggressively, even making clear that a law barring newsroom searches is trumped by the USA PATRIOT Act when it comes to 'alleged' terrorism investigations. Investigations that can be shielded under the guise of national security.

whottt
06-10-2006, 06:42 AM
You guys get all your posting in on this one...soon as ya'll get done this badboy is going into classics just on the basis of MM's all time smackdown of Nbadan. Never have I seen someone just flatout nailed as badly as Dan was in that post...well, at least not very often.

Gerryatrics
06-10-2006, 06:57 AM
It is still unclear how or when the FBI's expanded wiretapping and warrantless search powers will affect journalists, but the Justice Department has shown that it intends to use its powers aggressively, even making clear that a law barring newsroom searches is trumped by the USA PATRIOT Act when it comes to 'alleged' terrorism investigations. Investigations that can be shielded under the guise of national security.

I fail to see how "making clear that a law barring newsroom searches is trumped by the USA PATRIOT Act when it comes to 'alleged' terrorism investigations" equals "a new law on social responsibility in radio and television, additional reforms of the penal code, and a spate of other new laws, decrees, rules and regulations to further restrict the independent media in the country" and "making it punishable to "insult" a public official". Especially since the government hasn't started searching newsrooms, the wording you quoted isn't actually in the Patriot Act and the Privacy Protection Act already lays out when newsroom searches are forbidden and the limited exceptions thereof, which the Patriot Act neither supercedes or even addresses. I guess "Patriot Act!" is the standard response when someone mentions restrictions of civil liberties, instead of actually addressing facts which don't add up to your tinfoil hat wearing, koolaid drinking, black helicopter avoiding, the government invented AIDS to kill off all the liberals so far left of left wing it's almost doubled back on itself viewpoint. I think I'm starting to see a trend. OK, I'm done. :fro