A baseball forum today without talk of Jason Grimsley?

[FromWayDowntown]

We've known it was going on. We've had suspicions about particular players. Now we have the smoking gun that might bring baseball to its knees. As Jayson Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2474247) explains, this is much bigger than most would think, because it's Grimsley, who's played on too many teams to count and with hundreds and hundreds of players. It's not just that he's named the names; he has given the feds leads to pursue in expanding their investigation -- players, trainers, dealers. It gives the feds a huge amount of leverage to make deals with the bit players who will cooperate to save their own rear ends. They've already been successful in identifying one shipment to Grimsley; who else is on their radar screen already, and who is going to get there as a result of this case?

The affidavit for the warrant in Grimsley's case is significant for at least 2 other reasons: (1) he clearly brings to light the on-going and widespread use of amphetamines in baseball, and the cooperation of the clubs in allowing that use to continue; and (2) he admits that he changed to HGH to overcome the MLB testing policy (since HGH isn't among the substances that the tests would discover). I'd think that both revelations will expand the investigation and certainly in ways that are not good for the sport.

Here's the affidavit associated with the warrant executed on Grimsley's house: Grimsley affidavit (http://www.azcentral.com/pdfs/060706grimsley.pdf). Grimsley, not surprisingly, was released today by the Diamondbacks (at his request).

[SA Gunslinger]

Is HGH a legal or is it considered a controlled substance?

[Murphy]

I swear, once those names are released to the public, a second and possible final blow will be dealt to the integrity of professional baseball. Its a shame, to think that the sport I grew up watching with my dad is full of cheaters, its a sad day to be an american sports fan. By the way, tonight "Outside the Lines" with Bob Ley on ESPN will be discussing this at 11:40 CENTRAL time. It should be interesting.

[Das Texan]

This has the potential to be really huge.


Its not going to destroy the game, if things before havent destroyed it, this surely wont.


Couple that with baseball finally getting serious about this stuff and its going to be ok. This is the last thing really needed to really make their drug policy full of teeth.

Big.

[JMarkJohns]

I doubt he ever pitches in the bigs again. He's a rat in the clubhouse and a cheater on the mound. That's a lose/lose proposition and he's old to boot.

This is two years in the making and there was a lot of names listed that hasn't been released to the public. Not just of known users, but suspected users as listed by Grimsley.

Depending on your point of view, this is one of the worst things to come up in this story or one of the best. Personally, I think it's HUGE and will do more good than harm, though the harm will come immediately and the good might not be felt for decades.

[tsb2000]

I think those who turn their backs and rat on their fellow players disgrace the game. Even if they play for my favorite team.

[FromWayDowntown]

I doubt he ever pitches in the bigs again. He's a rat in the clubhouse and a cheater on the mound. That's a lose/lose proposition and he's old to boot.

I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Grimsley is done in baseball; the question for him is what his future in the federal criminal justice system is.


This is two years in the making and there was a lot of names listed that hasn't been released to the public. Not just of known users, but suspected users as listed by Grimsley.

I think it's more than suspected users -- I think Grimsley has the goods and the goods are going to bring some players down. And quickly. I'd be surprised if the players named in the affidavit haven't already been "invited" to speak to the officers conducting this investigation.


Depending on your point of view, this is one of the worst things to come up in this story or one of the best. Personally, I think it's HUGE and will do more good than harm, though the harm will come immediately and the good might not be felt for decades.

Agreed that the long term effects of this will be beneficial, but there are going to be some pretty dramatic and negative things to come before the good is realized. The HGH angle makes this even more significant, I think -- and the fact that Grimsley, who isn't ripped and huge, was among the HGH users opens the field pretty significantly to players who might not have been suspected of misbehavior before. That, and the amphetamines part of this, and most of baseball is gonna have some 'splainin' to do to the feds.

[SPARKY]

Yawn. More of the same.

[timvp]

It's actually quite sad how baseball has gone from the best sport in the world to a laughing stock. I used to be a huge baseball fan but then with the strike and then the steroids ... not to mention the huge gap between big and small markets, I don't watch anymore. The MLB is horrid.

The NFL is probably the best run right now. The NBA is still trying to recover from the loss of MJ, but with the world following, it'll probably pass the NFL one day. The NHL sucks but not as much as baseball.

[leemajors]

I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Grimsley is done in baseball; the question for him is what his future in the federal criminal justice system is.



I think it's more than suspected users -- I think Grimsley has the goods and the goods are going to bring some players down. And quickly. I'd be surprised if the players named in the affidavit haven't already been "invited" to speak to the officers conducting this investigation.



Agreed that the long term effects of this will be beneficial, but there are going to be some pretty dramatic and negative things to come before the good is realized. The HGH angle makes this even more significant, I think -- and the fact that Grimsley, who isn't ripped and huge, was among the HGH users opens the field pretty significantly to players who might not have been suspected of misbehavior before. That, and the amphetamines part of this, and most of baseball is gonna have some 'splainin' to do to the feds.

they kept showing pictures of ritalin on sportscenter. that drug is out of control as it is with psychiatrists. ADD? add ritalin, you gotta be ok. it does make you incredibly focused for a few hours, being a mild amphetamine - controlled speed as it were. more than a few of my friends use it to study for class, and kept taking it in law school so they could stay focused. the benefits are pretty obvious i guess, and you could hide behind ADD if you felt like it. hopefully this will blow it wide open though. better a big mess now than trying to cover up and have it be a bigger mess later. athletes will take whatever to gain an advantage.

[JMarkJohns]

For what it's worth... (http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php)

Names Sosa, Tejada and Pujols career-long trainer, Chris Mihlfeld.

Some big names... Sucks about Pujols being linked to this.

My question is this:

Is it unreasonable to as whether this entire generation should have an asterisk?

No one will ever be proven clean.

[tlongII]

For what it's worth... (http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php)

Names Sosa, Tejada and Pujols career-long trainer, Chris Mihlfeld.

Some big names... Sucks about Pujols being linked to this.

My question is this:

Is it unreasonable to as whether this entire generation should have an asterisk?

No one will ever be proven clean.


T Park!!!

[Extra Stout]

Does anybody question how it is that a barrel-chested 43-year-old can keep on pitching at the highest level in the major leagues? (*runs for cover*)

[747]

Does anybody question how it is that a barrel-chested 43-year-old can keep on pitching at the highest level in the major leagues? (*runs for cover*)

I dont think any player is above suspicion.

[FromWayDowntown]

I dont think any player is above suspicion.

I do. I don't believe that Junior Griffey is roided up, and I think that makes his career accomplishments look that much better. There are others who don't raise my suspicions one bit: Ichiro, Alfonso Soriano, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Vlad Guerrero. I'll be shocked to find out that any of those guys are dirty.

[leemajors]

manny's definitely on tobacco juice. i don' think there are any advantages to that though. the man can chaw.

[Extra Stout]

I do. I don't believe that Junior Griffey is roided up, and I think that makes his career accomplishments look that much better. There are others who don't raise my suspicions one bit: Ichiro, Alfonso Soriano, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Vlad Guerrero. I'll be shocked to find out that any of those guys are dirty.

I believe what we're going to find out is that almost everyone is dirty.

[timvp]

i'm going to go buy the cards of the players who are clean

The sad thing is you could end up with a one card collection.

http://www.1980olympichockey.com/images/14066.jpg

[T Park]

wha?

The best shortstop in the national league? :)


His trainer is linked, so now Pujols is dirty? :lol


reeeeaaaccchhhhhing

[Murphy]

man, I sure wish that those names will get released soon. That way we can clearly distinguish fact from rumor (hopefully).