Question for Pop Haters

[conqueso]

We all know that many of you guys hate Pop. The most frequently cited reason is the change of the game plan against Dallas, playing small ball, walking right into A.J.'s trap. I used to hate Pop too, back before he won three rings. But I don't really care about anyone's reasons for disparaging Pop; that debate is for another thread. I have a different question:

Who do you think would do the best job coaching the Spurs?

This isn't some rhetorical question raised to disprove anyone's argument or whatever. I know there are lots of people who want Pop out, which forces one to ask who would replace him. Forget about restricting this shit to coaches who the Spurs would have a realistic shot at hiring; I'm talking wet dream scenarios here. Only qualification is that the coach must still be alive.

I love Pop. I think he's the best coach for this team. I even think small ball was a good idea, and I think I could defend it. But forget all of that. I think if Pop got canned, the best coach for the Spurs would be A.J. I think that's obvious. But some of you Pop haters might have different ideas, and I'd like to hear them. Maybe Riles or LB? What about Phil Jackson, how do you think he would handle the Spurs? Do you think someone like Carlisle or Bird would be a good coach in San Antonio? How about JVG? What do you guys think?

[Solid D]

I like a good can of Pop every now and then.

[exstatic]

AHF mentions canning Pop now and then.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Obviously only Pop would do the best job--he knows his teams strengths and weaknesses the best. If we get a repeat of this postseason next year, then ask me again and I'll say Avery Johnson

[Fabbs]

aj
Bird
LBrown
Phil J with Tex Winters on O

All 4 of these would have rocked the title to San Antone this year.

By the way very fair worded thread, conqueso

[whottt]

AJ's impressive as hell as a coach. Yeeeech. *goes to wash mouth out with soap*


Phew..got that out of the way. I still say Phil Jackson is the best coach of the lot though, and anyone that wants to knock him off his pedestal has a looooooooong way to go...his record is insane, and his superstars never won squat without him.

[ShoogarBear]

AJ's impressive as hell as a coach. Got my post-playoffs sig.

AJ
PJax
Be intersting to see what Musselman does
Also, I like the job Stan Van Gundy did
And I want to see what Mike Brown does over the next couple of years

[whottt]

Got my post-playoffs sig.

I called AJ being a great coach years ago...in the midst of hating him.

Guys with big mouths and no game always make great coaches ;).

[strangeweather]

I still say Phil Jackson is the best coach of the lot though, and anyone that wants to knock him off his pedestal has a looooooooong way to go...his record is insane, and his superstars never won squat without him.
Dead on.

BTW, If I had to actually hire a new coach this year, Elie would definitely get a long look.

[snowboarder]

im good with pop

[Spurologist]

AHF forum. Please post this there.

[Dre_7]

Its funny how people (mainly AHF) talk about Pop changing the lineup, not going with the regular season lineup. But AJ did the same thing. He changed his lineup after one loss to the Spurs (inserted Devin Harris). Then he changed his lineup after one loss to the Suns (insertes KVH). Then he changed his lineup before game 1 of the Finals (went verry big). AJ has changed his lineup and no one says anything.

Fact is, San Antonio was very close to winning an impressive series in 7 games against the Mavs. If Manu doesnt foul Dirk, or Manu or Tim hits the potential game winner, we are all talking about the Spurs comming back from 3-1 to win a very tight seires against a very even team.

Its funny to me how people are so quick to blame Pop everytime SA loses.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I love Pop. But I disagree with his strategy in the Mavs series.

As for who would couch the Spurs...I think a Flip Saunders, or a Byron Scott, or an Avery Johnson would do a decent job with this squad. I can't see a Larry Brown or a Pat Riley coaching this team though.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Its funny how people (mainly AHF) talk about Pop changing the lineup, not going with the regular season lineup. But AJ did the same thing. He changed his lineup after one loss to the Spurs (inserted Devin Harris). Then he changed his lineup after one loss to the Suns (insertes KVH). Then he changed his lineup before game 1 of the Finals (went verry big). AJ has changed his lineup and no one says anything.

Fact is, San Antonio was very close to winning an impressive series in 7 games against the Mavs. If Manu doesnt foul Dirk, or Manu or Tim hits the potential game winner, we are all talking about the Spurs comming back from 3-1 to win a very tight seires against a very even team.

Its funny to me how people are so quick to blame Pop everytime SA loses.

That's not the same.

By inserting Harris they didn't fundamentally change the way they play. The Spurs on the other hand totally altered our image, we went from twin towers to ... well, insert a 9/11 joke here... which I'll refrain from, seeing as I'm brown/muslim.

[Dre_7]

That's not the same.

By inserting Harris they didn't fundamentally change the way they play. The Spurs on the other hand totally altered our image, we went from twin towers to ... well, insert a 9/11 joke here... which I'll refrain from, seeing as I'm brown/muslim.

Spurs havent had twin towers since DRob retired. Nazr and Rasho are not that good. I think if SA had stayed big, they would have lost in 5 games rather than 7.

The Spurs need an ATHLETIC center to be able to stay big and match up with this years Mavs.

[GrandeDavid]

Its funny how people (mainly AHF) talk about Pop changing the lineup, not going with the regular season lineup. But AJ did the same thing. He changed his lineup after one loss to the Spurs (inserted Devin Harris). Then he changed his lineup after one loss to the Suns (insertes KVH). Then he changed his lineup before game 1 of the Finals (went verry big). AJ has changed his lineup and no one says anything.

Fact is, San Antonio was very close to winning an impressive series in 7 games against the Mavs. If Manu doesnt foul Dirk, or Manu or Tim hits the potential game winner, we are all talking about the Spurs comming back from 3-1 to win a very tight seires against a very even team.

Its funny to me how people are so quick to blame Pop everytime SA loses.

Do you mind if I save this quote? Seriously, you summed up the cold facts of the series perfectly. I'm more apt to blame player execution down the stretch in big games - thrown away passes, stupid fouls and missed shots - than throw this on the coach.

[travis2]

More idiots...:rolleyes

The season is OVER. Get a fucking clue.

[SPARKY]

Why are we moving Pop for Flip Saunders or Byron Scott? Goodness.

[mcornelio]

Question For Pop Haters

Are You All Fucking Idiots?

Pop Haters (In Unison): Yes

[strangeweather]

Its funny how people (mainly AHF) talk about Pop changing the lineup, not going with the regular season lineup. But AJ did the same thing. He changed his lineup after one loss to the Spurs (inserted Devin Harris). Then he changed his lineup after one loss to the Suns (insertes KVH). Then he changed his lineup before game 1 of the Finals (went verry big). AJ has changed his lineup and no one says anything.
It's really simple: it's okay to make changes if you win. If you don't win, it must be the changes.

[fyatuk]

We all know that many of you guys hate Pop. The most frequently cited reason is the change of the game plan against Dallas, playing small ball, walking right into A.J.'s trap. I used to hate Pop too, back before he won three rings. But I don't really care about anyone's reasons for disparaging Pop; that debate is for another thread. I have a different question:

Who do you think would do the best job coaching the Spurs?


I've wanted Pop gone as HC for years. I was really hoping he'd keep the GM job and hire a new HC a couple years ago, but he resigned from GM instead. I love Pop as GM and assistant coach. I hate him as head coach (poor in-game decisions).

But I have absolutely no idea who would be best.

[TwoHandJam]

Phil Jackson. No one else even comes close.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Spurs havent had twin towers since DRob retired. Nazr and Rasho are not that good. I think if SA had stayed big, they would have lost in 5 games rather than 7.

The Spurs need an ATHLETIC center to be able to stay big and match up with this years Mavs.

You can speculate all you want.

But what's fact is with small ball we still lost in 7. Also, while Nazr/Rasho aren't as good as DRob, you can't say it's not "twin towers". It's still two 7 footers in your starting lineup.

[pjjrfan]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. On the Spurs organization there is no one who wants to win more than Pop. Yes, I was very surprised with some of his moves, and the fact that he gave up on his bread and butter, defense. But he probably knows this team better than any of us, and he saw something that made him rely on his offense. I can only hope Pop isn't losing that fire, and next year he will come back with a vengeance. I don't alway like him going off on guys, but this year I was really shocked he let Nick slide with so many bad games, mistakes, and lack of concentration and it seemed to rub off on the rest of the team. Give me that hardnosed MF'er I'm so used to screaming at.

[SequSpur]

Terry Schiavo > Popovich.

[Obstructed_View]

I for one don't understand why someone can't point out the stupidity of smallball without being labeled a hater. When Pop won't even insert Nazr or Rasho into the game when Timmy and Horry are in foul trouble, I can't figure why everyone wouldn't question the motivation behind it.

And no, you can't defend small ball any more than the Spurs can defend when they play it.

[conqueso]

I for one don't understand why someone can't point out the stupidity of smallball without being labeled a hater. When Pop won't even insert Nazr or Rasho into the game when Timmy and Horry are in foul trouble, I can't figure why everyone wouldn't question the motivation behind it.

And no, you can't defend small ball any more than the Spurs can defend when they play it.

Here's how a defense of small ball might go:

One of Dallas' four-headed centers is always on the court: Diop, Dampier, Mbenga, or Van Horn. Now let's say you eschew small ball and play Rasho a 20-30 minutes per game. Who's he going to guard? Putting him on Dirk would be a laughing stock. You can't stick him on Diop either, because that leaves Duncan to guard Dirk. If you want to put Bowen on Dirk, that forces Duncan to guard Howard or Griffin if Rasho's on DeSagana. Duncan on Dirk still allows Dirk to score in the 25-30 range (since Duncan really can't take away Dirk's drive to the hoop from the elbow and can't jump high enough to block that driving layup), wears out Timmy, and likely gets him into foul trouble. We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6. Duncan on Howard is even worse, since Howard can blow right by him and step out for long range jumpers, pulling Tim out of the paint and forcing Rasho to get all the defensive boards. So playing Rasho means he has to guard either Diop or Dirk, and neither of those scenarios is any better than starting Bruce at PF and putting him on Nowitzki.
The only other option is to give Nazr the lion's share of the minutes at 5. Nazr is a better (offensive) rebounder than Rasho and he's more athletic. Nazr is more inept on offense than Rasho, and he is (arguably) a worse defender. Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect. The problem with Nazr isn't as much in the x's and o's as it is in the head. Nazr played well (by his standards) in the two regular season victories against the Mavs, averaging 10 ppg, but had not been playing very well during the playoffs (excepting Game 1 against Sacramento, a game in which even I would have played 20 minutes and shot 8-8 from three if I had been wearing a Spurs uniform). The one game where he got any significant time (Game 2), he had 4 fouls and 1 point in 12 minutes. With Nazr, you still have problems matching him up against Dirk or Howard, and he had that deer-in-headlights look when he did get in the game. Maybe being in Pop's doghouse wrecked his confidence, or not getting consistent minutes hurt his rhythm or whatever, but regardless of the reason, he wasn't mentally prepared to play against the Mavs in the playoffs, whereas Finley was. Add that to the matchup problems, and I think it makes a lot of sense to nail him to the bench.
Both Nazr and Rasho would have helped the Spurs rebounding, which by all accounts was atrocious against Dallas. They might have even denied Devin Harris a lay-up or two with their long arms. But I think it's ironic that those who criticize small ball point to the lack of defense, when sticking with the big lineup would have actually resulted in worse individual defense on Howard, Griffin, and/or Dirk.
Now I know it sucks that the Spurs had to conform to another team because the matchups just didn't work out in their favor. It's tough to swallow a complete change of mentality in the playoffs, especially when it fails to ensure victory. But you loved it last year when the Spurs annihilated the Suns by refusing to defend Amare and letting him average something ridiculous like 37 ppg while shooting a bunch of one-pass threes in transition. And if you honestly look at the Spurs' roster and compare it to the Mavs' rotation, you can see why the characteristic defense-first approach of the Spurs was inappropriate to use against this Dallas team. Maybe one different piece, like an athletic big who could play D or a long 3 who could shoot, would have changed everything and allowed the Spurs to force the Mavericks to alter their game plan. But with Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen, Duncan, Barry, Horry, Van Exel, Mohammed and Nesterovic, you have to go small.

[travis2]

Here's how a defense of small ball might go:

One of Dallas' four-headed centers is always on the court: Diop, Dampier, Mbenga, or Van Horn. Now let's say you eschew small ball and play Rasho a 20-30 minutes per game. Who's he going to guard? Putting him on Dirk would be a laughing stock. You can't stick him on Diop either, because that leaves Duncan to guard Dirk. If you want to put Bowen on Dirk, that forces Duncan to guard Howard or Griffin if Rasho's on DeSagana. Duncan on Dirk still allows Dirk to score in the 25-30 range (since Duncan really can't take away Dirk's drive to the hoop from the elbow and can't jump high enough to block that driving layup), wears out Timmy, and likely gets him into foul trouble. We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6. Duncan on Howard is even worse, since Howard can blow right by him and step out for long range jumpers, pulling Tim out of the paint and forcing Rasho to get all the defensive boards. So playing Rasho means he has to guard either Diop or Dirk, and neither of those scenarios is any better than starting Bruce at PF and putting him on Nowitzki.
The only other option is to give Nazr the lion's share of the minutes at 5. Nazr is a better (offensive) rebounder than Rasho and he's more athletic. Nazr is more inept on offense than Rasho, and he is (arguably) a worse defender. Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect. The problem with Nazr isn't as much in the x's and o's as it is in the head. Nazr played well (by his standards) in the two regular season victories against the Mavs, averaging 10 ppg, but had not been playing very well during the playoffs (excepting Game 1 against Sacramento, a game in which even I would have played 20 minutes and shot 8-8 from three if I had been wearing a Spurs uniform). The one game where he got any significant time (Game 2), he had 4 fouls and 1 point in 12 minutes. With Nazr, you still have problems matching him up against Dirk or Howard, and he had that deer-in-headlights look when he did get in the game. Maybe being in Pop's doghouse wrecked his confidence, or not getting consistent minutes hurt his rhythm or whatever, but regardless of the reason, he wasn't mentally prepared to play against the Mavs in the playoffs, whereas Finley was. Add that to the matchup problems, and I think it makes a lot of sense to nail him to the bench.
Both Nazr and Rasho would have helped the Spurs rebounding, which by all accounts was atrocious against Dallas. They might have even denied Devin Harris a lay-up or two with their long arms. But I think it's ironic that those who criticize small ball point to the lack of defense, when sticking with the big lineup would have actually resulted in worse individual defense on Howard, Griffin, and/or Dirk.
Now I know it sucks that the Spurs had to conform to another team because the matchups just didn't work out in their favor. It's tough to swallow a complete change of mentality in the playoffs, especially when it fails to ensure victory. But you loved it last year when the Spurs annihilated the Suns by refusing to defend Amare and letting him average something ridiculous like 37 ppg while shooting a bunch of one-pass threes in transition. And if you honestly look at the Spurs' roster and compare it to the Mavs' rotation, you can see why the characteristic defense-first approach of the Spurs was inappropriate to use against this Dallas team. Maybe one different piece, like an athletic big who could play D or a long 3 who could shoot, would have changed everything and allowed the Spurs to force the Mavericks to alter their game plan. But with Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen, Duncan, Barry, Horry, Van Exel, Mohammed and Nesterovic, you have to go small.

Someone else who gets it...

[Fabbs]

We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6.

Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect.

Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. :rolleyes No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.

[AdmiralMVP]

Pop was the best thing to happen to the Spurs since ... well, getting David Robinson and Tim Duncan with the #1 pick in their respective draft classes. Let's face it, as much as I like Robinson and Duncan, they aren't (weren't) vocal leaders who fire up their teammates. The Spurs needed someone to crack the whip, and Pop did. He brings an intensity that the Spurs need.

[rwb]

I think Pop leaving is as likely as Timmy leaving, and I'd prefer not to see either scenario any time soon.

[travis2]

Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. :rolleyes No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.

But that's how the games are called, idiot. That would have happened EVERY FUCKING GAME had you put Duncan on Nowitzki regularly.

:rolleyes

[conqueso]

Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. :rolleyes No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.

1. Regardless of whether the refs sucked (which they did), it's pretty clear that Timmy can't guard Dirk 35 minutes/game as well as Bowen. Dirk pump fakes at the elbow and drives on Duncan every time Duncan steps out to contest his money mid-range jumper. Duncan is not very effective defensively against Dirk, and that is the root of all the Spurs' (as well as the rest of the league's) matchup problems.

2. I don't think Rasho making 4 or 5 mid-range jumpers a game would have saved the Spurs. Dirk would also be D-ing up Rasho, and I'm not going to say that Dirk can actually play D or anything, but Rasho would be the perfect defensive assignment for him: slow, plodding, same height, can't really post up...Dirk would have had a hand in Rasho's face every time he tried to shoot that short-corner or straight-on middie. With Rasho, Spurs' rebounding would have been better, but their transition defense (and half-court defense against Dirk et al) would have been much much MUCH worse.

Can someone direct me to the small ball vs. big ball thread? I want to read what some other people have had to say about this, and I haven't found the thread devoted to it.