Would you trade Tim Duncan for Lebron James

[Lakerfan]

Yes or no?

[themvp]

No

Never

Ever

[ChumpDumper]

ask ducks.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I would in a heartbeat. Duncan is on the decline, while James is on the rise. That one seems simple.

[Lakerfan]

I would in a heartbeat. Duncan is on the decline, while James is on the rise. That one seems simple.

Agree.

[exstatic]

I would in a heartbeat. Duncan is on the decline, while James is on the rise. That one seems simple.
That's why you're a Kings fan.

[himat]

Definantly. Lebron is going to be something great. Not saying Duncan isn't but Lebron has a lot of potential.

[Dre_7]

Duncan for Lebron? No.

Anyone else on the Spurs for Lebron? Hell yeah. In a heartbeat.

[TheSanityAnnex]

That's why you're a Kings fan.
How many years left of dominance do you honestly think Duncan has left? 2.......maybe 3?


I'm just being a realist.

Duncan for LeBron in a heartbeat.

[AMOS7]

It's not just about talent, you can't trade the piece of your franchise that helped win you three championships for anybody.

Even if Duncan is "declining" (watch the playoff series vs the Mavs and tell me if that was declining), you can't just do that because Duncan is the franchise guy. LeBron is still young and will be the NBA's biggest star in about 3 years, but the Spurs can win the title now, so you keep pieces there that can consistantly win you a title.

The Spurs are only title contenders for about another three years, after that, IMO, Duncan will be out of his prime.

Spurs can win another championship or two with Duncan around. Could they with LeBron? LeBron isn't the problem the Spurs need to fix, they need rebounding mostly. Duncan is a top 10 player in NBA history by the time his career is up, you can't trade that away.

[ChumpDumper]

How many years left of dominance do you honestly think he has?If this playoff run was any indication, several.

[exstatic]

How many years left of dominance do you honestly think Duncan has left? 2.......maybe 3?


I'm just being a realist.

Duncan for LeBron in a heartbeat.
I think the point is that he has had years of dominance, and will have more. Lebron has won what, one playoff series?

[Lakerfan]

I think the point is that he has had years of dominance, and will have more. Lebron has won what, one playoff series?

This was his 1st playoff appearance moron.

[clubalien]

It is not a matter of if tim or leberon it is tim and lebron. Lebrons contract is examerly cheap for his performace I could see holt paying lebron that kind of money without complaining

[TheSanityAnnex]

I think the point is that he has had years of dominance, and will have more. Lebron has won what, one playoff series?
My point exactly. Duncan only has a few more years of dominance. LeBron has x amount of years left and will be the best player in the league for years to come. Especially with the way the rules have been changing. They are changing to benefit players like LeBron, not Duncan.


To each his own.

[AMOS7]

BTW, Duncan is the reason the Spurs are contenders every year. Without him, the Spurs are a good 4-5th seed in the west. Not much else.

[clubalien]

but shaq has wade
dirk has nash
WHo does Tim have?

I think a
tim lebron combo would be deadly

[ChumpDumper]

It is not a matter of if tim or leberon it is tim and lebron. Lebrons contract is examerly cheap for his performace I could see holt paying lebron that kind of money without complainingDuncan was a bargain on his rookie contract too.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Lebron has won what, one playoff series?Look who LeBron played with.

[AMOS7]

Just imagine if they did bring in LeBron... who would be the starting PF or Center?

[TheSanityAnnex]

BTW, Duncan is the reason the Spurs are contenders every year. Without him, the Spurs are a good 4-5th seed in the west. Not much else.
True. But I'm looking into the future. LeBron actually has one. Duncan is nearing his decline. And for big men like himself, it is usually a quick one.


Please don't think I'm knocking on Duncan, the guy is a beast and would make anyone's team a contender.

[ChumpDumper]

And for big men like himself, it is usually a quick one.:wtf

Big men's careers are the longest-lived in the league.

[exstatic]

This was his 1st playoff appearance moron.
...and it took him 3 seasons...IN THE EAST. Yeah, he's dominant, all right.

[smdanss]

I would in a heartbeat. Duncan is on the decline, while James is on the rise. That one seems simple.
Your Kings never had a best player in NBA, the Spurs do. Duncan will stay with Spurs.
Your whole Kings team may probably be sold somewhere else soon. :elephant

[AMOS7]

I'm a big fan of LeBron, but I see Wade being almost as good. Wade plays with more heart and desire, and it'd be great if somehow he were ever a Spur (but he won't).

[clubalien]

I think we will treat duncan like we treated david

when ian comes over he will learn under timmy. and will become a more important part fo the spurs. Just like tim started to take over for david.

Now it makes since you will have to dominate players in lebron and ian. However you give up opportunity to have ian learn under tim. I think in the end basketball wise it is best to have both ian and lebron. However, as a fan I think you have to respect tim by not trading him for staying a spur his whole career just like david. More of a respect thing than a basketball matter. Because when ians and lebrons contract ends you want them to know you will be loyal to them so they don;t go sign with another team

[mabber]

A better question would be "how fast do you think the Spur's owner & Pop would say YES to that deal if the Cav's actually proposed it" 10 seconds? 1 minute?

I realize that Duncan has helped y'all win 3 titles and he is a great player but the NBA is a business and that trade would be considered a STEAL by the Spurs. I know this will be like talking to a wall cuz of your love for Duncan but I guarantee you that the Spurs would make this deal just cuz of Duncan's age and how awesome LeBron already is at age 20-21. Hell, I'd trade Dirk for LeBron and Dirk is only 27. LeBron is extremely special and will dominate this league for the next 10 years. His team will win multiple championships guaranteed.

[JasonsGirl]

NEVER EVER

Duncan is the reason we're world champions.

k thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

Dude, the Ian-pimping here is out of control.

[picnroll]

If I was a Laker fan I'd be hoping for a Kobe for LeBron trade for sure.

[exstatic]

And for big men like himself, it is usually a quick one.

You don't know fucking anything. Big men WAY outlast guards in terms of longevity. Kareem played unitl he was 42. David Robinson, with his horrible back, until he was 37. Tim will hit 30 on his next birthday. When Shaq retires in a year or two, Tim could easily be the dominant skilled big man in the NBA for the next 5 AFTER THAT.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Your Kings never had a best player in NBA, the Spurs do. Duncan will stay with Spurs.
Your whole Kings team may probably be sold somewhere else soon. :elephant
Not to derail the topic, but I must point out a stupid post when I see one.
Had Webber not fucked up his knee, he was well on his way to being one of the best players of his time.

Care to expand smdanss?



Back to the topic. Sorry.

[SPARKY]

Actually, for bigmen like Duncan, the "decline" is a long, successful one. His game is one of the least reliant on simple athleticism or speed I've seen.

[exstatic]

Not to derail the topic, but I must point out a stupid post when I see one.
Had Webber not fucked up his knee, he was well on his way to being one of the best players of his time.

Care to expand smdanss?



Back to the topic. Sorry.
Only in his own mind, and obviously yours. He was in that level just below the elite, the elite-wannabees.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You don't know fucking anything. Big men WAY outlast guards in terms of longevity. Kareem played unitl he was 42. David Robinson, with his horrible back, until he was 37. Tim will hit 30 on his next birthday. When Shaq retires in a year or two, Tim could easily be the dominant skilled big man in the NBA for the next 5 AFTER THAT.You don't know much about Plantar Fasciitis do you?

Read up on it a bit. It may or may not be the reason of his decline.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/doc/prognosis_060313.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

Only in his own mind, and obviously yours. He was in that level just below the elite, the elite-wannabees.And you don't think he would have reached elite without that injury?

[SPARKY]

Yeah, he was really on the decline in the postseason.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yeah, he was really on the decline in the postseason.
Dude, I never said he was on the decline now. I said he will only be dominant for a couple of years, where LeBron has probably ten years of dominance.

You also fail to see who the rules are being changed to favor *cough* LeBron *cough*

[Amarelooms]

I'm a big fan of LeBron, but I see Wade being almost as good. Wade plays with more heart and desire, and it'd be great if somehow he were ever a Spur (but he won't).

Umm Wade is only 6'4"...Lebron is a beast and can actually hit the 3. Please don't ever compare the two again............

[JamStone]

Spurs don't make that trade out of loyalty and what Tim Duncan has done for the franchise and city.

Based purely on from a basketball point of view, the Spurs would be crazy not to make that trade.

LeBron will be the best NBA player for the next 10 years at least.

But, again, it's not just about basketball. Spurs fans would trip if Duncan were ever traded unless he asked to get out. And, while LeBron will soon become the best player in the game, Tim is still one of the best and will remain at or near the top for several more years.

When taking everything into consideration, no, the Spurs don't make that trade. But, if I were making decisions for the Spurs, I would.

[angel_luv]

No

Never

Ever


Word! :fro

Now if Bron wanted to come over when Timmy retires, I could support that.

[clubalien]

This isn't my rule, but isn;t there a rule that says you NEVER ever trade big for small? I think I heard it here.

[JamStone]

This isn't my rule, but isn;t there a rule that says you NEVER ever trade big for small? I think I heard it here.


So I guess you wouldn't trade Rasho for LeBron either, right?

[ALVAREZ6]

Imagine how pissed Cleveland fans would be if that trade actually happened...

[clubalien]

Maybe we can do a trade like danny ferry. Where we trade the person but he actual retires.

[clubalien]

So I guess you wouldn't trade Rasho for LeBron either, right?
Actual I would do that trade. Are the cavs under cap. Because the salries have to match and I think rasho gets paid more. So if they aren't under the cap they woudl have to throw more players in to get rasho. But I would personally do that trade in a heartbeat.

Because with having ben wallace and javkots here we have no need for rasho.

[mike detroit]

you would be a complete moron not to do this. duncan's stock is only falling from here. the sky's the limit for lebron.

[clubalien]

MIke, why should we trade tim when we could just as easily trade rasho for lebron.



So I guess you wouldn't trade Rasho for LeBron either, right?

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Actually, for bigmen like Duncan, the "decline" is a long, successful one. His game is one of the least reliant on simple athleticism or speed I've seen.
Exactly! Duncan's game is going to age like a fine wine. :drunk

As for the proposed trade, yeah the Spurs might benefit from that in some ways, but that's not how you treat one of the best players of all time, who's already won you THREE rings. The message it would send to other potential free agents would be brutal, hell maybe even after that LBJ would leave, thinking "if they can trade TD, why not me?"

[Cant_Be_Faded]

lebron took 3 seasons of MJ-like ref treatment IN THE EAST to win one playoff series

lol

say that out loud if you don't think its insane as i do

[spurschick]

Let's say we made this trade straight up... who is our new power forward? I've said I would trade Manu for Dwight Howard, but then who is our starting 2? It's easy to talk about these straight-up trades, but you have to round out the team. We'd have LeBron, but now we'd be left with no reliable big man. And don't tell me we wouldn't need one because we'd have LeBron and that's enough.

[clubalien]

then again I wouldn't have drafted darko over carmelo

what is darkp up to? wrost draft pick ever

[Taking it to the Hole]

Dude, I never said he was on the decline now. I said he will only be dominant for a couple of years, where LeBron has probably ten years of dominance.

You also fail to see who the rules are being changed to favor *cough* LeBron *cough*

You think that LeBron is going to be the best player in the NBA for the next ten years? That is a bold statement. Everybody who has been given that mantra, has had to wait numerous years before they even compete for a championship. And you think that LeBron will dominate completely. Your assuming alot. The guy could easily get injured at any time during those seasons and that could slow down his "dominance" as you so claim to speak it. That is just a dumb thing to say that he is going to dominate everyone for the next ten years. You don't know if another player comes into the league two years, or three years down the line and basically is a better player and better peformer. People said the same thing about Shaq, KG, Amare, and look at what has happened at their careers. Shaq is on his last legs, KG is a perrrenial Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing(great players, but could never win the big one), and Amare was going to be the wave of the future until he got hurt(who knows if he ever will regain the way he played before the injury). You can't just say that LeBron will dominate for the next ten years because neither you or I are psychic. There are just too many variables involved to say something like that.

[clubalien]

Let's say we made this trade straight up... who is our new power forward? I've said I would trade Manu for Dwight Howard, but then who is our starting 2? It's easy to talk about these straight-up trades, but you have to round out the team. We'd have LeBron, but now we'd be left with no reliable big man. And don't tell me we wouldn't need one because we'd have LeBron and that's enough.

lebron and ian=dominate for YEARS :elephant
random journeymen, draft picks, vet mins, scrubs

[spurschick]

lebron and ian=dominate for YEARS :elephant
random journeymen, draft picks, vet mins, scrubs


I said reliable big man. Ian has yet to prove himself.

If someone can create a scenario for getting Lebron here that still leaves us with a strong, championship contending team, I'd like to see it.

[clubalien]

Lebron = home town kid turned superstar. I doubt they would want to trade him even though tim is better. Imagine Devin brown if he was a superstar.
Now would lebron want to come to the spurs and play with tim. Likely but with pop who knows. SO I am not going to prupose a team until I am sure cavs woudl actual trade away all that cash they getting from selling out tickets

[mabber]

Spurs don't make that trade out of loyalty and what Tim Duncan has done for the franchise and city.

Based purely on from a basketball point of view, the Spurs would be crazy not to make that trade.

LeBron will be the best NBA player for the next 10 years at least.

But, again, it's not just about basketball. Spurs fans would trip if Duncan were ever traded unless he asked to get out. And, while LeBron will soon become the best player in the game, Tim is still one of the best and will remain at or near the top for several more years.

When taking everything into consideration, no, the Spurs don't make that trade. But, if I were making decisions for the Spurs, I would.

I agree for the most part, but I think the Spurs would seriously consider the trade. No worries for the Spur's fans though, as the Cavs would NEVER make that deal.

[Bob Lanier]

That would not be a good trade for the Spurs from a basketball standpoint.

From an NBA standpoint, acquiring "The Chosen One" might have its benefits (does the NBA test for steroids?).

[SPARKY]

If LeBron leaves Cleveland he's going to NYC.

[mabber]

Umm Wade is only 6'4"...Lebron is a beast and can actually hit the 3. Please don't ever compare the two again............

Exactly! Wade is my favorite player to watch play in the NBA but LeBron is a "beast" like you said and I'd take LeBron over Wade everyday of the week if I was given the opportunity. The only that will keep LeBron from winning multiple titles and dominating the league over the next decade is a serious injury.

[clubalien]

lebron is too muscliar to early for that to be strediods. It has to be all natrual. He is probaly just has great genes. Unlike me.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You think that LeBron is going to be the best player in the NBA for the next ten years? That is a bold statement. Everybody who has been given that mantra, has had to wait numerous years before they even compete for a championship. And you think that LeBron will dominate completely. Your assuming alot. The guy could easily get injured at any time during those seasons and that could slow down his "dominance" as you so claim to speak it. That is just a dumb thing to say that he is going to dominate everyone for the next ten years. You don't know if another player comes into the league two years, or three years down the line and basically is a better player and better peformer. People said the same thing about Shaq, KG, Amare, and look at what has happened at their careers. Shaq is on his last legs, KG is a perrrenial Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing(great players, but could never win the big one), and Amare was going to be the wave of the future until he got hurt(who knows if he ever will regain the way he played before the injury). You can't just say that LeBron will dominate for the next ten years because neither you or I are psychic. There are just too many variables involved to say something like that.You missed a very important word I used when talking about LeBron's dominance. "Probably"


Bottomline, San Antonio gains nothing with this trade until they replace Duncan with a formidable PF. Their future would look bright though. Cleveland loses its future and probably only makes it to the ECF of semis, and then loses the advantages of Duncan in a couple years.


What about a Ginobli/Parker for LeBron/filler swap? That would make more sense.

[clubalien]

Also remember all the effort the NBA went to having the lottery fixed so that the cavs ended up with lebron. Rarely does the player leave after events like that happen Witness the Tim duncan draft and david robinson draft. Even with lesser stars like yao to rockets

[ALVAREZ6]

lebron is too muscliar to early for that to be strediods. It has to be all natrual. He is probaly just has great genes. Unlike me.
?

Well there's no way he takes steroids, if that's what you were trying to spell.

Lebron isn't that big, he's just really cut. Lot of definition.



D-Wade is probably bigger than Lebron muscular-wise.

[clubalien]

I was responding to
That would not be a good trade for the Spurs from a basketball standpoint.

From an NBA standpoint, acquiring "The Chosen One" might have its benefits (does the NBA test for steroids?).
My argument is that he wasn't using them and he just was blessed. I mean shaq isn;t using them. He just happens to be an alien though

[baseline bum]

Never. I don't care if Duncan tore his ACL and lost an arm. Tim Duncan is the greatest player in the history of the franchise, and if the Spurs traded him for LeBron I'd become a Cavs fan.

[ducks]

ask ducks.
NO
NO
HELL NO
NOT EVEN WHEN DUNCAN IS 35

[THE SIXTH MAN]

5.)Javtokas
4.)Ian
3.)Lebron
2.)Manu
1.)Tony
:fro

[ducks]

5.)Javtokas
4.)Ian
3.)Lebron
2.)Manu
1.)Tony
:fro
:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[clubalien]

dixth man makes a good point with ian at the 4 you don;t really need tim duncan anymore.

I think it is a pretty good lineup

plus with jav being so athletic the whole line up can run and gun.

the weakest and oldest point will be manu at the 2 gaurd spot, bt 2 gaurds are the easiest to find.

tony young lebron young seeems to put the spurs on a long solid foundation

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah since the draft was fixed so we could pick Ian, after all.

[clubalien]

chump we picked HIM LATE in the draft

It woudl be insane to think that.

But look at all the number one PICKS just the pciks needed to sve the franchise of spursd TWICE

cas get a HOMETOWN KID that is great


houston gets yao

seems to be fixed several years

I mean boston had the worse record but spurs end up with tim

just when needed after david getting old

[clubalien]

Spurs picked manu in secound round. Just because a PLayer is good doesn;t mean the draft is rigged.

how could you rig something like the 27th pick

that is just stupid and insane.

But giving the team a first round pick insted of another team possible I mean they don;t even air the balls being bounced anymore


why?

[ChumpDumper]

Look at all the #1 picks that went to teams with shitty records?

Alright...

[ChumpDumper]

they don;t even air the balls being bounced anymoreDid they ever?

[ducks]

how come then if the lottery is fixed bulls never got the number one pick

[ChumpDumper]

Anyway the joke is you are treating Ian like a #1.

[clubalien]

Did they ever?
Yes they used to have video of it. It was a seperate event. They had little tables or chairs where each team sat with a GM or something. a ball machine that the took balls out of with a team logo on it.

Now why woudl NBA and the networks decide to take an event away that got raitings and advertisors. we have that stupid thing on tv callad nba nation before a finals. and you think the NBA would want to throw away money they made by airing another event.

Just because one event is rigged doens't mean they all are. Keep in mind there are only some many good draft years.

Not everyone can be a superstar. ALso some times people don't know who is a good player and go later in a draft. Just because they turn out later to be good or devlop later.

But Certain ref units are chossen certain nights And they don;t annouce that until right before the game

I mean if it is no big deal why not annouce it before the series starts

[ChumpDumper]

Now why woudl NBA and the networks decide to take an event away that got raitings and advertisors.Did it?
Just because one event is rigged doens't mean they all are.Only when it is convenient for conspiracists.
But Certain ref units are chossen certain nights And they don;t annouce that until right before the game

I mean if it is no big deal why not annouce it before the series startsWhy do you follow a so obviously fixed sport?

[clubalien]

Because I am a san antonio spur and dallas cow fan
Grew up one always will be one
people switch parnters people can switch poltical parties

but a true fan never switches teams


WHat about the scandal were suns? got caught and their draft picks were taken away

Remember where boozer team said they had an "agreement" he woudl sign with them

Well Either the team LIVED or they had an ILLEGAL agreement

oh that wouldn;t be fixing now would it.

Tim wouldn;t be talking to Kidd during the allstar game gauaging if he woudl want to be a spur

[ChumpDumper]

My understanding of the current 14-team lottery process makes it pretty confusing for the average TV viewer. Fans have to remember all the possible four-number combinations that correspond to their team?

Riveting television.

[clubalien]

They give certian teams so many balls. all Balls are thrown into one of the Texas lotto type machines.

A ball is pulled out Whatever logo it is wins lottery.

that teams balls can no longer be drawn again.

If say mavs ball is drawn but the team actual holding that pick is Cavs.. than cavs will ofcourse latter be awared that pick.

That was how the system worked. Sure there was probaly more procduers to it But then again I am no expert on what they did.

[spurs=bling]

Hell No!!!

[ChumpDumper]

Your understanding of today's lotto process is sorely lacking.

I suggest you google.

[clubalien]

The point was they changed the process. Now why woudl they change the process

to make it easier to fix maybe?

I mean stick to what works right


Are you saying that using the same process that state lotteries use was to "unfair" if fairly operated them some back room 4 number combination method

[ChumpDumper]

to make it easier to fix maybe?To make it more weighted towards teams with worse records.
I mean stick to what works rightYeah, like the first lotto when the worst team got the worst pick, or when Orlando got two #1s in a row, the second time being when they had the best record in the lottery.
Are you saying that using the same process that state lotteries use was to "unfair" if fairly operated them some back room 4 number combination methodI couldn't say that if I tried. Get back to me in English next time.

[DuncanInYourFace]

To make it more weighted towards teams with worse records.Yeah, like the first lotto when the worst team got the worst pick, or when Orlando got two #1s in a row, the second time being when they had the best record in the lottery.

That's why it's a LOTTERY.

So you are saying it wasn't actually random?

[ChumpDumper]

That's why it's a LOTTERY.

So you are saying it wasn't actually random?I'm saying you're a dumbass if you can't understand what I said right above that.

[clubalien]

Chump You said
"The NBA didn't liek the results", :It was too random teams were actual getting picks they didn;t want them to have. SO the nba decided lets change it so we have a system where the teams we want to get picks actual get them!

its fair because the NBA says it is the teams that are "suposed" to get them. Insted of the team that won the lottery.

If we just gave the picks to the teams that had worst record we have teams tanking to get picks.

[ChumpDumper]

SO the nba decided lets change it so we have a system where the teams we want to get picks actual get them!Nah. They just weighted it more to the worse teams, which also made it TV unfriendly. It's too bad writers have sat in on the lotto, or your little foil-hat crap might have legs.
If we just gave the picks to the teams that had worst record we have teams tanking to get picks.No shit, that's why there is a lottery. They've just been tweaking it since.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

what is darkp up to? wrost draft pick ever

Darko will dominate the NBA. The Pistons blew it.

[fyatuk]

Yes or no?

Not a chance. Don't get me wrong, LeBron is a GREAT player to build a franchise around. He can do it all.

But considering the Spurs makeup, it'd be insane to do that. You'd lose several years before you could build a team that could be a championship contender around LeBron, and by then he'll be in just about the same place Duncan is in his carreer. Much better idea to just ride out Duncan for another 3-5 years of dominance and then worry about rebuilding the team.

[DuncanInYourFace]

I'm saying you're a dumbass if you can't understand what I said right above that.

It seems as though you are suggesting that they switched from drawing balls w/ team logo to drawing combination in order to better align picks with team crappiness.

[ChumpDumper]

It seems as though you are suggesting that they switched from drawing balls w/ team logo to drawing combination in order to better align picks with team crappiness.Well there you go. Still random, but weighted.

[strangeweather]

Well there you go. Still random, but weighted.
But that's not nearly as interesting as a conspiracy, so there must be something wrong with that explanation.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Hell fucking no.

Tim has a good 5-8 more years in him. Unlike Shaq, he CAN play into old age.

[clubalien]

I guess we can agree on that the new motto for the NBA shoudl change from I love this game to "its random, but weighted"

Ofcourse since teams with worse records had more balls in the lotto machine it was weighted too.

[ChumpDumper]

Not as much. That's the whole point.

Have a tinfoil hat party with Flash Gordon.

You're an even bigger idiot than you've shown when you stick to the NBA if you think it's fixed.

[clubalien]

Just for the benfit of other people reading this thread thought I woudl share this info from wikipedia

NBA Draft Lottery
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The NBA Draft Lottery is an annual event selecting the top three picks of the following NBA Draft. First established in 1985, it was at first a chance drawing for all first-round picks, with all non-playoff teams (in 1985 there were seven non-playoff teams in the National Basketball Association) having equal chance of landing the number one pick. The New York Knicks won the lottery in 1985 and made Patrick Ewing the number one pick.

Some in the NBA were concerned about results when the worst team, the Golden State Warriors, drew the seventh and final lottery draft position. Also, controversy over the envelope of the New York Knicks also developed.

In 1986, many lottery teams had traded their first-round draft picks, and as a result, the top two teams in the Draft Lottery were playoff teams, with the eventual NBA champion Boston Celtics picking second, a pick (the late Len Bias) which would eventually haunt the franchise. The Philadelphia 76ers, who won the lottery on the draw from a trade with the then-San Diego Clippers in the late 1970s where the Clippers picked up Joe Bryant in return for the 1986 first-round pick, traded it to Cleveland afterwards.

Thus began a rule change beginning in 1987 when only the top three picks would be selected by the traditional lottery, again with the same policy.

In 1990, however, the NBA changed the format of the lottery to give the worst team the most chances of landing the top pick. For the 11 non-playoff teams that season, the team with the worst record would have 11 chances, the second worse would have 10, etc. However, the Orlando Magic defied the odds by gaining two number one picks consecutively, despite the fact that they were the best non-playoff team the second year.

Thus, beginning with the 1995 lottery the chances were weighed even more, so that the best non-playoff team would only have a slim (0.5%) chance of receiving the top pick.

Thus, the term "lottery pick" in the NBA usually denotes a pick in the first fourteen and developed the reference of "lottery" to non-playoff teams in any sport.
Contents
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* 1 Process
* 2 Lottery ceremony
* 3 See also
* 4 External links

[edit]

Process

Fourteen ping pong balls numbered 1-14 are placed in a standard lottery machine and four balls are drawn at random to determine the winner. Just as in most traditional lotteries, the order of the numbers are not important, so although there are 24 different orders of the same four numbers being drawn, all are treated as the same combination. That is, 1-2-3-4 is considered to be the same as 3-4-2-1. By eliminating the importance of the order of the numbers, the 24,024 (14x13x12x11) sequences are reduced to 1,001 sets. Of these 1,000 are divided among all the non-playoff NBA teams. The one combination not assigned is 11-12-13-14, which has never been drawn.

In the event a lottery pick is traded to another team, the record of the original team (whose pick it was before the trade) matters.

As of 2005, with 30 NBA teams, 16 qualify for the playoffs and the remaining 14 teams are entered in the draft lottery. These 14 teams are ranked in reverse order of their regular season record and are assigned the following number of chances:

1. 250 combinations, 25% chance of receiving the #1 pick

2. 199 combinations, 19.9% chance

3. 156 combinations, 15.6% chance

4. 119 combinations, 11.9% chance

5. 88 combinations, 8.8% chance

6. 63 combinations, 6.3% chance

7. 43 combinations, 4.3% chance

8. 28 combinations, 2.8% chance

9. 17 combinations, 1.7% chance

10. 11 combinations, 1.1% chance

11. 8 combinations, 0.8% chance

12. 7 combinations, 0.7% chance

13. 6 combinations, 0.6% chance

14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance

In the event of a tie, a simple tiebreaker (usually a coin flip) is performed to determine which team gets the better position. The combinations for the spots in question are split evenly among the tied teams with any extra pick given to the winner of the tiebreaker.

The lottery is conducted with witnesses verifying that all 14 balls are represented once as they are placed in the lottery machine. The balls are placed in the machine for 20 seconds to randomize prior to having the first ball drawn. The remaining three balls are drawn at 10 second intervals. NBA League Officials determine which team holds the winning combination and that franchise is awarded the #1 overall draft pick. The four balls are returned to the machine and the process is repeated to determine the second and third picks. In the event that a combination belongs to a team that has already won its pick (or if the 1 unassigned combination comes up), the round is repeated until a unique winner is determined. When the first three teams have been determined, the remaining picks are given out based on regular season record with the worst teams getting the highest picks. This assures each team that it can drop no more than 3 spots from its projected draft position.

In the case where a lottery team trades its pick to a playoff team, the playoff team assumes the lottery team's position in all draft lottery situations.

For the 2006 NBA Draft, the NBA determined tie breakers on April 21st.

The odds for each team to get specific picks in the 2006 lottery (rounded to 3 decimal places):
Team Chances 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th 13th 14th
Blazers 250 .250 .215 .177 .358
Bulls (from Knicks) 199 .199 .188 .171 .319 .124
Bobcats 138 .138 .142 .145 .238 .290 .045
Hawks 137 .137 .142 .145 .085 .323 .156 .013
Raptors 88 .088 .096 .106 .262 .359 .084 .004
Timberwolves 53 .053 .060 .070 .440 .330 .045 .001
Celtics 53 .053 .060 .070 .573 .226 .018 .000
Rockets 23 .023 .027 .032 .725 .184 .009 .000
Warriors 22 .022 .026 .031 .797 .121 .004 .000
Sonics 11 .011 .013 .016 .870 .089 .002 .000
Magic 8 .008 .009 .012 .908 .063 .001 .000
Hornets 7 .007 .008 .010 .935 .039 .000
76ers 6 .006 .007 .009 .960 .018
Jazz 5 .005 .006 .007 .982
[edit]

Lottery ceremony

The actual lottery (the draw of the ping-pong balls) is conducted in private, though observed by independent auditors. The results are subsequently presented in a short ceremony (typically broadcast live during the halftime of an NBA playoff game), in which the order of the lottery is announced in reverse order, from 14 down to 1. Representatives from each NBA franchise with a lottery pick, typically a general manager or other team executive, are present at the lottery ceremony. At the ceremony, it is often the case that the team who wins the number one pick will, if there is a consensus best player in the draft (or the team has decided whom to select), will then unveil a team uniform with that player's name on it. In 1989, the lottery-winning Sacramento Kings made light of this tradition by unveiling a Kings' uniform with a question mark on it, as there was no clear-cut #1 pick that year. (The Kings eventually selected Pervis Ellison).

It is a common cliche in the NBA that a team which fails to qualify for the playoffs (or is on track to do so) is "playing for ping-pong balls".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

[Lakerfan]

How bout Duncan for LeBron and Big Z?

[George Gervin's Afro]

no. i would at least think about dwight howard though...

[Please_dont_ban_me]

no. i would at least think about dwight howard though...

You mean Gooden?

Dwight Howard (orlando) isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You mean Gooden?

Dwight Howard (orlando) isn't going anywhere anytime soon.


yes i meant dwight howard..he's the only guy i would remotely consider trading duncan for..i would not trade TD for Lebron..

[DuncanInYourFace]

Well there you go. Still random, but weighted.


But choosing number combos and choosing actual balls are IDENTICAL lotteries, and it makes no sense to use number combos

[SPARKY]

But choosing number combos and choosing actual balls are IDENTICAL lotteries, and it makes no sense to use number combos

What the fuck are you complaining about? Before I forget, Dusty, go fuck yourself.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

yes i meant dwight howard..he's the only guy i would remotely consider trading duncan for..i would not trade TD for Lebron..

I agree.

I would actually trade Duncan for him too. Dude is a beast, and what...19? Imagine him and TP for next 2 decades running this team. With Manu in that mex for another 5-6 years. :smokin

[SPARKY]

What's that, 2k Dre?

[SPARKY]

I can't hear you.

[Holmes_Fans]

If this playoff run was any indication, several.
But he did nothing outstanding all season, if he played like that during the regular season he wouldn't of been able to do it in the playoffs. It's the same way with shaq, they are both getting older and can't play 40 min a game night after night.

[SPARKY]

But he did nothing all season, if he played like that during the regular season he wouldn't of been able to do it in the playoffs. It's the same way with shaq, they are both getting older and can't play 40 min a game night after night.

Yeah, TD looked old and decrepit in the postseason. Are Mavs fans just naturally dumb or is it alcohol induced?

[SPARKY]

Say, 2k. Your post aren't showing up, man.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Say, 2k. Your post aren't showing up, man.

Way to fuck up a perfectly good/humorous feature.

[clubalien]

Yeah, TD looked old and decrepit in the postseason. Are Mavs fans just naturally dumb or is it alcohol induced?
I am not agreeing with his argument. But what he is saying is that tim looked good in playoffs againts the mavs, but he cannot play that way the whole season. He has to be like shaq or horry and take off so that he is fresh for the playoffs

Like i said I am not agreeing to what he is saying just clarfying

[dbreiden83080]

Asking true Spurs fans if they would trade Tim Duncan is like asking Yankees fans if they would trade Derek Jeter. The answer will always be no, never not in a million years.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Asking true Spurs fans if they would trade Tim Duncan is like asking Yankees fans if they would trade Derek Jeter. The answer will always be no, never not in a million years.

Don't be so sure.

Jeter was more sacred than he is now. I think he's lost some of his...what's the word...zest? No that's not it. Allure? Man it's hiding in the back of my head, what's the fucking word. :madrun

[Winnipeg_Spur]

But choosing number combos and choosing actual balls are IDENTICAL lotteries, and it makes no sense to use number combos
Are you saying they should be using 1000 balls??? :wtf

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Listen up bitches. Anyone who wouldnt do this trade is a dumbass. Even RC and Pop would do it. Duncan has 5 good years left. That might even be a stretch. LeBron has 15 years left. Will it ever happen? No. Duncan is the best Spurs player of all time, however I would be willing to trade him only for LeBron. No other player in the league is worth getting rid of Duncan for.

Dwight Howard is younger than Lebron.

He's very similar to Shaq coming up in Orlando. He could be next dominant post force. You wouldn't take him for 15-20 years, in exchange for 5 more quality years (maybe) with Duncan?

[ChumpDumper]

But he did nothing outstanding all seasonLook, idiot -- maybe if you had been on the board before the end of game 7 you'd know what Duncan was dealing with all year.

But you weren't, so fuck off, frontrunning bitch.

[Texas_Ranger]

Don`t need Lebron. DUNCAN 4EVER.

[Tom_Foolery]

I would in a heartbeat. Duncan is on the decline, while James is on the rise. That one seems simple.



Too bad you missed Duncan play the Mavs this post-season. He was incredible.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't trade Duncan for Jordan. Have some loyalty to your franchise guy.

[GrandeDavid]

Tim's too iconic. I also believe in storied franchises, legacies and all that stuff. You retire Tim a Spurs like you did Robinson. Same goes for Ginobili and Parker. They are Spurs for life, just as you are a fan for life. Do or die.

Btw, I'm thinking of starting a Spurs fan "firm" to get some hooliganism going. Yes, I'm watching the World Cup these days. :lol

[GrandeDavid]

But I will say that TODAY I bet no other franchise would even consider trading Lebron for Duncan. Now, if I could have Tim or Lebron for an entire career, I'd go against the trendy choice and take Tim. He's PRODUCED and proven himself, not to say that Lebron won't. But I'm betting that Tim will retire with 4 championship rings. I think it'll be tough for Lebron to match that in his career.

[baseline bum]

I'd trade Manu and Tony if necessary to win title, but just not Tim for anything in the world. It would be like Chicago trading Jordan, Boston trading Bird, or LA trading Shaq.

[JsnSA]

Yes and Tim Duncan would probably be the first to understand why the Spurs would HAVE to make that trade if it ever was available.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I would be interested in trading Duncan for Howard...but not this year. Maybe 3 years or so. But today Duncan and a bunch of other players are a lot better than Howard. LeBron is the only player I would take Duncan for if we had to do the trade today.

But you have TP and Manu. Why get a similar player?

Aslo, 3 years down the line...the deal might not even be accepted by Orlando. You have to look ahead a little now, of course it's easy to say "in 3 years when Howards a stud and Duncan is just above average I would do the deal".

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Tim's too iconic. I also believe in storied franchises, legacies and all that stuff. You retire Tim a Spurs like you did Robinson. Same goes for Ginobili and Parker. They are Spurs for life, just as you are a fan for life. Do or die.

Btw, I'm thinking of starting a Spurs fan "firm" to get some hooliganism going. Yes, I'm watching the World Cup these days. :lol

I can see Tim, Manu, David...those kinds of guys being Spurs for life.

For some reason I have a feeling TP would bolt if the situation was right.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

As for loyalty...

Where was the loyalty when Tim toy'd with our emotions for the whole Orlando summer? I'm not saying he doesn't love the city and pour his guts out for this team...but it's a business. I would like to keep him. I would love to keep him. But if the right deal comes along you can't say no.

[rascal]

...and it took him 3 seasons...IN THE EAST. Yeah, he's dominant, all right.

LeBron doesn't have much in his teammates. And don't tell me Illgauskas or Larry Hughes. He is a dominate force already.

[rascal]

Cleveland wouldn't even trade LeBron for Duncan.

[exstatic]

rascal, you'd trade your mother for a cookie, and then complain for the next 10 years.

[Horry For 3!]

I like LeBron but I would never trade Timmy. If it was anyone else, then yes.

[Horry For 3!]

I'd trade Manu and Tony if necessary to win title, but just not Tim for anything in the world. It would be like Chicago trading Jordan, Boston trading Bird, or LA trading Shaq.
Shaq was traded from the Magic then Lakers

[ChumpDumper]

He wasn't traded from the Magic, and, seeing as he lives in LA, I'm sure that was a dig at the Busses.

[Holmes_Fans]

Yeah, TD looked old and decrepit in the postseason. Are Mavs fans just naturally dumb or is it alcohol induced?
I never said he looked old in the post season, I quoted someone saying how well he did in the postseason and said there is no way he can play like that all season long. I acknowledged how well he played in the postseason. Can all spurs fans not read? Listen to clubalien, he can comprehend simple messages.


and any spurs fan who would really want to trade TD for Lebron if the situation came up should be shot. Even if Duncan has to pace himself during the season, still is the reason the spurs won 3 rings.

[pjjrfan]

Tim is not that old, he still has 3 or more years of some great ball, nagging injuries have really hobbled him the last two years but this last playoff run Tim showed how much he still has in the tank. He also showed how much we need another athletic big or a versatile player who can play the 3, 4 and on occasion the 5. A Malik type player, a younger Horry.

[ChumpDumper]

I quoted someone saying how well he did in the postseason and said there is no way he can play like that all season long.Trying to blame someone else for a dumbass statement is lame.

[Axl Van Dam]

:madrun HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Holmes_Fans]

Trying to blame someone else for a dumbass statement is lame.
How is that a dumbass statement? and how was I blaming someone else, I am agreeing with them, shit you are an idiot.

Do you really think Duncan can play 41 minutes ,shoot .584, and score 32.3 a night the entire season including the playoffs? You are just a dumbass if you think he can play the way he did in round 2 for and entire season. He is in the same boat with shaq, he will have to pace himself during the season and wait till the playoffs to put up huge numbers.

[bonzi_isaspurskiller]

i hate the asshole but spurs fan who RIGHT NOW would not trade duncan for james is either a retard or a goddamn liar. lebron is a piece of shit to me but you dont flinch on that deal. anyone saying otherwise only wishes they had the chance to make it happen. bet that.

[MissAllThat]

This is a tough one. I love Lebron, but I love Duncan also. At this point in their careers, I'm not sure. But in a year or two, if we had some sort of replacement for Duncan, then yes. And by replacement, I just mean someone to play the position, because Horry can't cut it for a whole season. Just a young guy, doesn't have to be great.

[word]

Yes or no?

I'd trade Ginobili AND Duncan for Lebron James.

[dbreiden83080]

Don't be so sure.

Jeter was more sacred than he is now. I think he's lost some of his...what's the word...zest? No that's not it. Allure? Man it's hiding in the back of my head, what's the fucking word. :madrun

I am a yankees fan and i can assure you Jeter is as sacred now in NY as he ever was, why do you think A-Rod takes so much shit in NY because everyone compares him to Jeter that is why. Jeter will always be the king of NY and Timmy will always be the man in SA.

[abelle23]

...not gonna happen...timmy all the way

[ducks]

I'd trade Ginobili AND Duncan for Lebron James.
:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[DarrinS]

I'd trade Nick Van Exel for Lebron, straight up.

[Leetonidas]

I'd trade Nick Van Exel for Lebron, straight up.

Hell, I'd trade Nick Van Exel for LeBron Johnson.

http://www.tusculum.edu/athletics/football/Bios/Johnson,Lebron(03).jpg

[MadDog73]

and any spurs fan who would really want to trade TD for Lebron if the situation came up should be shot. Even if Duncan has to pace himself during the season, still is the reason the spurs won 3 rings.


i hate the asshole but spurs fan who RIGHT NOW would not trade duncan for james is either a retard or a goddamn liar. lebron is a piece of shit to me but you dont flinch on that deal. anyone saying otherwise only wishes they had the chance to make it happen. bet that.

:makemyday You're on my list, spurskiller.

No way would I trade Tim for Lebron, not now anyway. So we go from a legitimate title contender to a possible playoff team? No thanks.

We already have one developing player in Tony Parker. Plenty of time to get Lebron later anyway, as long as we are dreaming...