Shaq, Zo Did Something Nazr and Rasho Wouldn't Do…

[nbascribe]

They contested shots in the paint. They put players on their ass. They negated Diop and Erica's ability to be effective down low.

Nazr and Rasho never would do that. All they had to do was show the willingness in the first game of the series with Dallas that they can manage the middle and maybe they would have gotten playing time and made a difference.

[whottt]

Pop sure taught them a lesson...

[nbascribe]

Pop sure taught them a lesson...
More like Zo and Shaq did....:lol

[Fabbs]

They contested shots in the paint. They put players on their ass. They negated Diop and Erica's ability to be effective down low.

Nazr and Rasho never would do that. All they had to do was show the willingness in the first game of the series with Dallas that they can manage the middle and maybe they would have gotten playing time and made a difference.

Yeah like Shaq and Zo managed the middle in their 1st 2 games vs Heat.

[LEONARD]

I agree...

But why is Shaq trying to draw charges a lot of the time? Doesn't make sense...and it's not working because he's always in the restricted area...

[nbascribe]

Yeah like Shaq and Zo managed the middle in their 1st 2 games vs Heat.

Doesn't matter. It's tied now and the best of three.

[boutons_]

"Nazr and Rasho never would do that"

Nazr, never. Has no concept of what he needs to do to defend his paint, has zero floor vision, a fucking wimp.

But Rasho is pretty damn good at reading a play and getting his ass into the action. He fouls too much, but he rotates well, makes an effort, alters shots.

I agree that he doesn't knock people around but at least he shows up.

[furry_spurry]

Shaq and Zo are playing a combined 45 or 46 minutes per game. They also left Shaq in the game when Dallas went with Dirk at center. Your own logic makes no sense- you say it does not matter because Miami and Dallas are tied at 2-2 each but then you claim that Rasho and Nazr were supposed to prove in a combined 10 minutes in game 1 that they would knock people down. The reason it's working for Miami is because they actually are playing their traditional line-up and have people to contest shots in the paint. I agree with Boutons- Rasho contests shots in the paint. That is his biggest asset on the team.

[timmydmvp]

Spurs shouldve just kept Malik rose, the only reason pop got rid of him was because of his personal vendetta, At least malik wouldve shown up

[Fabbs]

Doesn't matter. It's tied now and the best of three.

Then why your contention that it was Rash and Nazrs not showing up in one game that cost them? Following your contention Riley should have benched Shaq and Zo and gone small ball. :rolleyes

[MadDog73]

Then why your contention that it was Rash and Nazrs not showing up in one game that cost them? Following your contention Riley should have benched Shaq and Zo and gone small ball. :rolleyes


Fabbs, your Hate for Pop is showing.

If Pop had Shaq and Zo, they wouldn't be benched. Period.

After all, Tim's a "big", and Pop didn't bench him, did he?!? :rolleyes

[furry_spurry]

After all, Tim's a "big", and Pop didn't bench him, did he?!? :rolleyes

Following that logic, then Tim should have knocking people on their asses.

[MadDog73]

Fabbs has no logic. He hates Pop because he thinks Pop is the only reason we lost.

I lost track of the OP, though, you are correct. I don't believe the Spurs need to throw people to the ground to win games, sorry. I do believe we had as good a shot as any to win the series without playing Nazr and Rasho. They are not as good on the offensive end as Shaq, either...

[Fabbs]

Fabbs, your Hate for Pop is showing.

If Pop had Shaq and Zo, they wouldn't be benched. Period.

After all, Tim's a "big", and Pop didn't bench him, did he?!? :rolleyes

No my love for the Spurs is showing. I am going exactly with the threads premiss. Rasho and Nazr didn't "show up" for game 1. Neither did Shaq and Zo. Oh but they did show up in Games 3 and 4.

You small ball honks already look silly. Should the Heat go on to win you will have no defense whatsoever. You Pop worshippers will lose 40 lbs with all your backpedalling.

[nbascribe]

My point is this: Nazr and Rasho are bigs and the moment that it looked like they couldn't handle their assignment, they were doomed. Newsflash people -- they weren't doing their job all season.

The reason why Riley is using his line up in traditional fashion is because his players are stepping up and doing what's asked.

In the two losses, the Heat had no inside presence. Zo was averaging a paltry 5 minutes per game. In the last two games, he has stepped up and made his presence known and that has allowed Shaq to rest up and be fresh when crunch time came.

If you really want to break this down, the Spurs faltered by no big man presence and the fact that THE BENCH SUCKED OUT THE ASS.

[MadDog73]

No my love for the Spurs is showing. I am going exactly with the threads premiss. Rasho and Nazr didn't "show up" for game 1. Neither did Shaq and Zo. Oh but they did show up in Games 3 and 4.

You small ball honks already look silly. Should the Heat go on to win you will have no defense whatsoever. You Pop worshippers will lose 40 lbs with all your backpedalling.

:lol We won Game 1, Pop Hater. Explain that.

And how do you explain the Spurs coming back from being down 3-1 without playing Rasho and Nazr?

Explain how the only game Nazr plays significant minutes, we get blown out and lose HCA.

Bottom line, Tim hits one more free throw, Bruce hits one more open three, or Manu doesn't foul, and no one is talking shit about Pop.

Shit happens. Pop isn't perfect, but if taking a team to 30 seconds from advancing to the WCF sucks, then Pop sucks. :rolleyes

Oh, yeah, and 2 of our star players fouling out in close games certainly didn't help, either. But, I'm sure that's Pop's fault as well (why were they playing?) :rolleyes

Shaq + Zo > Rasho + Nazr.

Pop with Shaq, Zo and Duncan would beat the Mavs.

But, hell, Spurs should fire Pop and put you or Aggie in charge. Let's see how many Championships you can win...

[Fabbs]

:lol We won Game 1, Pop Hater. Explain that.
We scored more points and Nazr and Rash did play.

And how do you explain the Spurs coming back from being down 3-1 without playing Rasho and Nazr?
We have a better roster and the offense opened up.

Explain how the only game Nazr plays significant minutes, we get blown out and lose HCA.
Yeah the entire game is all on Nazr. Even if he had one bad game, the answer is to bench him the entire series. Like TD, GNob, all the rest get benched when they have one bad game. oh wait, they don't....

Bottom line, Tim hits one more free throw, Bruce hits one more open three, or Manu doesn't foul, and no one is talking shit about Pop.
No a lot of us want to see offensive improvement. We think viewing what went wrong and trying to correct it is a good thing. Others think trying to improve is evil. "We must have Pop coaching the same way in 2025, because after all, he won three titles 20 years ago." is your chant.

Shit happens. Pop isn't perfect, but if taking a team to 30 seconds from advancing to the WCF sucks, then Pop sucks. :rolleyes
Championship roster means championship is expected of coach. You wanna lower the bar, and you have, go for it.

Oh, yeah, and 2 of our star players fouling out in close games certainly didn't help, either. But, I'm sure that's Pop's fault as well (why were they playing?) :rolleyes
You're mistaken, take that up with Dick Bvetta and company. Oh no don't, because saying anything about the refs shows *a lack of class* It would have been nice to me to have Pop sound off on Novitski and his stoopid assed record setting FT attempts. Someone else said they liked Pops "passsion". :lol He looked like paint drying on the wall.

Pop with Shaq, Zo and Duncan would beat the Mavs.
Don't be too sure.

But, hell, Spurs should fire Pop and put you or Aggie in charge. Let's see how many Championships you can win...
At least one back to back and probably 4 of 5.

Now for you:
Explain how Nazr played plenty of minutes against a small ball Phx last year and yet he did fine and we won 4-1. Then tell me how bad he sucked against the Pistons and come up with some excuses why that was sooo different.

[MadDog73]

At least one back to back and probably 4 of 5.
:rolleyes
Write Holt a letter and explain it to him. Maybe you'll get your shot.

Seriously, who would you rather have coaching the Spurs who is available.



Now for you:
Explain how Nazr played plenty of minutes against a small ball Phx last year and yet he did fine and we won 4-1. Then tell me how bad he sucked against the Pistons and come up with some excuses why that was sooo different.


Because Nazr played better last year? Why is that so hard a concept for you to grasp?


Here are the facts. Distort them as you wish.

Round 2, Game 1: W
Rasho 8:44, 0 pts, 2 reb.
Nazr 1:41, 0 pts, 0 reb.

Game 2: L
Rasho 3:43, 0 pts, 1 reb.
Nazr 11:59, 1 pt, 5 reb

Game 3: L (Duncan fouled out)
Rasho DNP
Nazr 1:10, 0 pts, 0 reb

Game 4: L (Manu fouled out)
Rasho 1 sec?, 0 pts, 0 reb.
Nazr DNP

Game 5: W
Rasho DNP
Nazr DNP

Game 6: W
Rasho DNP
Nazr DNP

Game 7: L
Rasho DNP
Nazr DNP

[Fabbs]

They contested shots in the paint. They put players on their ass. They negated Diop and Erica's ability to be effective down low.

Nazr and Rasho never would do that.

Last years Champ run vs Phoenix especially.
I and the Pop Could Improvers and you and the Pop Lovers were watching two completely different games. Nazr had some great blocks, steals.

You assert because Shaq and Zo changed their game, it means Rash and Nazr could not. Illogical conclusion.

[nkdlunch]

They contested shots in the paint. They put players on their ass. They negated Diop and Erica's ability to be effective down low.

Nazr and Rasho never would do that. All they had to do was show the willingness in the first game of the series with Dallas that they can manage the middle and maybe they would have gotten playing time and made a difference.

Nazr and Rasho NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO DO IT. Don't blame them. Blame Pop

[ChumpDumper]

You assert because Shaq and Zo changed their game, it means Rash and Nazr could not. Illogical conclusion.I assert because Rash and Nazr suck, they didn't play.

[Fabbs]

I assert because Rash and Nazr suck, they didn't play.

Weak argument if you want to accept the 2005 Champ run.

[Fabbs]

:rolleyes
Write Holt a letter and explain it to him. Maybe you'll get your shot.

Seriously, who would you rather have coaching the Spurs who is available.
Because Nazr played better last year? Why is that so hard a concept for you to grasp?
Here are the facts. Distort them as you wish.

Great idea, I will write Holt.
Your stats prove Nazr played 12 minutes total. Wow.
Should I post the stats last year for Nazrs playoff run? That would be some real distortion. He did not change.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, Nazr really, really sucked this season. No amount of bolding will change that.

[MoSpur]

I think Nazr and Rasho should have played more. The whole smallball thing is getting way too much hype. The Mavs were very successful at it no doubt. However, the Spurs never gave themselves a chance to play their game, which includes Nazr or Rasho in the game for more than five minutes.

I agree that the Spurs should have been a lot more physical with the Mavs. The whole, "we have a lot of respect for one another" caused me to puke. This was the playoffs where you win or go home. The Spurs didn't seem to understand that a lot during that series. They got outhustled. Dallas went to the boards with more fierce than the Spurs.

[MadDog73]

Nazr and Rasho NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO DO IT. Don't blame them. Blame Pop

They had a chance in Game 1 and Game 2 to prove they could score more than 5 points combined.

They failed, were benched, and Spurs won 2 games and lost 3.

I maintain that Tim Duncan and Manu fouling out was more of a reason we lost than Rasho or Nazr not playing.

Hell, they are tons of reasons I would put before Nazr and Rasho playing.

Thing is, we almost won without them, and I see no evidence that we would win if they played significant (20+ minutes a night). Who would they guard? Would they be able to outscore who they defend?

And for God's sake, Fabbs quit comparing Nazr and Rasho to Shaq! Even old, decrepit Shaq > Nazr + Rasho.

[MoSpur]

Nazr and Rasho weren't that good this year. No arguement from me on that one, but they weren't given much of a chance to redeem themselves.

[MadDog73]

However, the Spurs never gave themselves a chance to play their game, which includes Nazr or Rasho in the game for more than five minutes.

Wrong. Rasho played over 8 minutes game 1, Nazr played 11:59 in Game 2 (for all the good it did us).

Out of the 4 games where neither played at all, we split, hardly inspiring confidence we needed either to win.

But people need someone to blame, and don't want to blame Tim (missed free throws), Manu (bad foul), or Bowen (missed open 3s).

They'd rather blame the coach, even though Pop had the Spurs in a position to win every game except the one game Nazr played the most minutes it.

Coincidence?

And I'm not saying Pop is perfect. Maybe he could have managed Manu's or Tim's time better so they wouldn't foul out (although, you have to wonder if we'd be in a position to win playing like that).

Bottom line: Spurs could have won game 3,4, or 7. And winning any one of those takes to to the WCF, where we would beat the Suns, and put us against the Heat.

[Fabbs]

Nah, Nazr really, really sucked this season. No amount of bolding will change that.

And no amount of soft font will change 36-9 since Nazr began either starting/getting more minutes since Jan 14th. That really sucked.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol yes, Nazr was the only reason we did well this season. That deserves bolding.

[MadDog73]

And no amount of soft font will change 36-9 since Nazr began either starting/getting more minutes since Jan 14th. That really sucked.


Was that against the Mavs?

Then it's irrelevent, like any regular season stat.

Bottom line: Nazr was a non-factor against the Mavs, and we almost won.

The only game he played significant minutes, we lost. You say "play Nazr more, we beat Dallas". I say, "Play Nazr more, Spurs lose in 5."

We'll never know, but I'll be surprised if either Nazr or Rasho are around next season. I won't be surprised to see Pop coaching.

I don't know what Pop Haters are looking for, but if you Hate Pop and love Nazr, you'd have better luck following the team who gets Nazr...

[nbascribe]

Fabbs I'll give you the comparison. The Suns had Amare and what the Spurs were able to do were to force him into becoming a jump shooter. Nazr played well because he wasn't asked to guard a guy who was virtually unstoppable in Dirk.

When Nazr and Rasho were inserted in the games against Dallas, they didn't defend well on pick and rolls. Nazr looked lost but then again he was clueless all season.

Rasho and Nazr were the two weakest links in the Spurs' defense this season. If I used your assertions that Pop didn't know what he was doing by going 'small' ball, then the Spurs would have never made it to seven games.

Rasho and Nazr were non-factors in that series because they were ineffective. Pop found what worked and the only reason why the Spurs lost that series boils down to Manu's dumb ass play.

[ChumpDumper]

The Suns had Amare and what the Spurs were able to do were to force him into becoming a jump shooter.I don't remember doing anything to Amare.

[MadDog73]

Pop found what worked and the only reason why the Spurs lost that series boils down to Manu's dumb ass play.


Not the only reason, there are several, but that's one of them.

But hey, let's be fair and rank some of The Reasons the Spurs Lost

1. Manu's foul
2. Tim's missed free throws
3. Bad technical foul call on Finley, later rescended (Game 4?)
4. Bowen's missed Three-pointers.
5. Tim fouling out Game 3.
6. Manu fouling out Game 4.
7. Dirk never missing.


OK, so where would Pop Haters put Nazr on this list?

[boutons_]

"what the Spurs were able to do were to force him into becoming a jump shooter'

WTF? Amare didn't get ANY thundering dunks or paint points against the Spurs?

Amare added an effective jumper to his game in 04/05. You make it sound like Amare was forced into being a jump shooter by the Spurs, and averaged 37 PPG vs Spurs mainly on jumpers?

[Fabbs]

:lol yes, Nazr was the only reason we did well this season. That deserves bolding.

10/10 weak backpedal scale.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Haslem only played 18 minutes in that game, for the rest of that time Posey was playing PF, so I don't know where this perception that Miami doesn't play small comes from. It's not like they were playing Mourning and Shaq at the same time...

The difference is they've got an ideal "big swingman" in Posey who can rebound (he grabbed 10) and D up against Dirk. If we had someone like that we'd almost certainly have moved on.

[MadDog73]

10/10 weak backpedal scale.

:rolleyes

That's not a backpedal. Fabbs, you don't what the hell you're talking about, acting like Nazr is the next Shaq or something...

[ChumpDumper]

That wasn't a backpedal. It was sarcasm.

Nazr sucked this season. No amount of saying he did well against Phoenix -- letting Amare score 40 points a game is playing awesome! -- can change that.

Spurs were in a posistion to win in seven. They didn't make it. Pop will remain coach. Nazr is most likely gone.

It's time to move on.

[MadDog73]

That wasn't a backpedal. It was sarcasm.

Nazr sucked this season. No amount of saying he did well against Phoenix -- letting Amare score 40 points a game is playing awesome! -- can change that.

Spurs were in a posistion to win in seven. They didn't make it. Pop will remain coach. Nazr is most likely gone.

It's time to move on.


Thank you. Can't say it better or clearer than that.

[itzsoweezee]

they sure didn't, b/c pop made sure they never got a chance to

[MadDog73]

they sure didn't, b/c pop made sure they never got a chance to


So, what's your point? Fire Pop and hire a coach that will play Nazr and Rasho more?

[MoSpur]

I for one ain't saying that Nazr would have changed the series no Rasho. Just saying we shouldn't have given into the small ball thing so quick.

[MadDog73]

I for one ain't saying that Nazr would have changed the series no Rasho. Just saying we shouldn't have given into the small ball thing so quick.


Why not? It worked for the most part.

Who is Nazr or Rasho going to guard? Dirk?

And will they be able to outscore who they are guarding on the other end? If not, does that free up the Mavs to double someone else?

I mean, if we were blown out in 5 games, I'd understand the Pop Haters. They'd have a valid complaint. But if Tim or Manu doesn't foul out, the lame technical doesn't give the Mavs a game, Tim hits one more stinking free throw, Manu doesn't foul Dirk...

There are so many other things (small things) that could have won the series for us, and yet people are hung up on the two things that did not effect the series one bit: Rasho and Nazr.

I just don't get it.

[furry_spurry]

Rasho and Nazr were the two weakest links in the Spurs' defense this season.

Rasho and Nazr are not one player or one person- they are 2 different people who did different things this season and in the play-offs. Rasho was a HUGE part of the Spurs successful defense in the first half of the season that deteriorated after Nazr moved into the starting line-up. Someone who claims that Rasho was one of the two weakest links in the Spurs defense does not carry any credibility for anything else he says- especially for a team with Nick and Beno.

As for the Dallas series, Rasho played well in game 1, especially defensively-- Spurs won. Rasho never was given the chance AT ALL again because of match-ups and the insertion of Devin Harris into the line-up. Nazr was actually given the chance in games 2 and 3 and sucked. He was supposed to be the big man who matched up in that series but he never showed.

[ace3g]

I agree...

But why is Shaq trying to draw charges a lot of the time? Doesn't make sense...and it's not working because he's always in the restricted area...


actually on the 2nd charge called on Shaq he was out of the restricted area and there in time to take the charge from Dirk, and it was clearly shown in the replay , so yet again the refs missed another call

[Phenomanul]

"Nazr and Rasho never would do that"

Nazr, never. Has no concept of what he needs to do to defend his paint, has zero floor vision, a fucking wimp.

But Rasho is pretty damn good at reading a play and getting his ass into the action. He fouls too much, but he rotates well, makes an effort, alters shots.

I agree that he doesn't knock people around but at least he shows up.


:tu

See, we don't disagree on everything...

[z0sa]

I dont see how nazr sucked so bad. what about the game where he had like 31 and 20 against phoenix during th regular season... that was small ball at its finest and nazr dominated. didnt one possession we have like 5 offensive rebounds that game? I think given the chance nazr could have really made the difference.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Fuck small ball.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They contested shots in the paint. They put players on their ass. They negated Diop and Erica's ability to be effective down low.

How does one contest shots in the paint and put people on their asses when they're sitting on the bench.

I'll give you credit nbascribe. You definitely have what it takes to be a Spurs beat reporter - you toe the company line quite well.

[Trainwreck2100]

Zo's bad kidney is better than those two.

[polandprzem]

It always been like that:
Blame coach for losing
Give props to the players while winning.

[Obstructed_View]

Kind of hard to contest shots in the paint when you are sitting on the bench.