College sucks

[turambar85]

I need to vent... I am a entering my junior year and transfering to the University of Tennessee. I spent my 1st two years at a Community college to get adjusted. I needed that time because I had only been educated up the the 6th grade before that. I was homeschooled from 8th grade on because I quit doing school in middle school, and I did 1/2 or 1 semester over the 5 year period.

Anyway, I went to transfer orientation yesterday and the 1st half went well, we had a good meal and recieved helpful information. The 2nd half they started with a speaker who dealt the opening kidney shot. He began by implying that it doesnt matter how much you have progressed, that your G.P.A is looked at only as a singular number in getting into their grad programs, such as Law school, which I hope to attend in 2 years.

This is horrible news for me because, as I mentioned before, I didnt have highschool classes, so I started poorly. My cumulative G.P.A is a 3.55. That number is not very impressive, but to show how poorly I started, I had a 3.95 g.p.a in my Sophomore year. But now I know that progress is irrelevant.

The 2nd blow came when I read the handbook, and I found out that my major, which I have spent 2 years working towards, is "not a preferred path towards law school." My major is frickin legal studies, what is it a path towards if not law school???? Now I will have to change my major and take extra classes if I have any hope of getting in.

The death blow came during registration at the end of the day. My advisor gave me a list of 8 classes to use to select a 5 class semester when I registered after leaving his office. To play it safe I selected 3 extra classes, giving me 11 from which to choose 5. Well, 10 of the 11 classes were either not offered that semester, or closed. The only one I got was the one I did not want, Anthropology. I ended up searching for any classes that would work with my major, and only found 4, and 2 of them are questionable and take the place of a class I had been dying to take.

Through all of this I am completely screwed. I also found out that my delay in sending information in may have cost me some scholorship money, and I can't expect any help from my family. So, all in all.....yesterday sucked.....lol

[Jekka]

If you had to wait until June to start registering for upper devision, I'm not surprised there's nothing available. It still sucks, but I'm not surprised - I had to deal with not getting into the classes I wanted when I registered back in April with the seniors.

[turambar85]

Yeah, they wouldnt let us until orientation. But the problem isnt not getting what I wanted, its having 60 credit hours to get, and not being able to even find 15 of them for a full semester.

[ashbeeigh]

I'm really sorry to hear all about that! :td. I'm going into my senior year next fall and can probaly sympathasize
with most of the things you just hit on the head.

The Law school thing is load of crap (I think). You can go to law school with any degree, or so I've heard. We've talked about Law school in my Mock Trial class (which has no pre-law driven students in it ... well maybe one) and our Professor, who is a Lawyer for Guadaluper county and a graduate from Baylor Law school, said Law Schools like a diverse class. You could even go to Law School with an Art Degree! It's pretty much a tabula rasa.

And yes, GPA is just a number when it comes to any type of Grad programs. They look a lot at Statements of Goals and Purposes, interviews, GRE, LSAT, MCAT, GMAT scores and all the other things. A good GPA could do you well to get the initial boost but it's not everything like it seems.

You're last blow, the registering for classes sure can be a big pain, especially when you go to such a big school. Getting the right classes for your major is really tough when you're a junior or senior. It's just one of those frustrating things you go through. I know I went through it registering this last spring (I even have to take a class by myself because they conflict!) Take a deep breathe and things will get better. And you never know, maybe those classes you take because the others are full could be the most fun you've had in your life!

The money situation is something, also, that I can feel you on too. That's such a pain!

A dropping GPA is a regular part of college too. I know a lot of people struggle iniatially with the whole college thing, but you soun like me, an awesome start up and a slip toward the middle. Don't get too stressed out, that's probably a way for your grades to go down even farther (that's how it worked for me sophomore and junior year).

Keep us updated on how things are going.

[turambar85]

Oh, sorry I may have said that poorly. I meant that I started pitifully since I was coming in with no highschool education, and I improved to where my last full year I had 9 A's and 1 B+. I just started so bad that even now my g.p.a is only a 3.55. I wish they considered my improvements...

[turambar85]

I'm just bitter because I went from thinking school was a waste, and refusing to do H/S, to becoming obsessed with classes and spending all my free time studying, and yet I still will fall short of Law School the way things are going.

[Jekka]

Okay, you need to not bitch about the 3.55. It's not a bad GPA at all, and it's not the only thing law schools consider. They will also look at improvements and essays when you apply, your GPA is not the end of the fucking world.

[ashbeeigh]

Oh, sorry I may have said that poorly. I meant that I started pitifully since I was coming in with no highschool education, and I improved to where my last full year I had 9 A's and 1 B+. I just started so bad that even now my g.p.a is only a 3.55. I wish they considered my improvements...


Oh yeah, I wasn't saying it wasn't good. It's an awesome GPA, not at the least. :D.

[ashbeeigh]

You could always have internships and get experience before going right to law school. Lots of people get experience before going right to law school. And I wouldn't get down about a 3.5 yet. You still have two years to go. Get some experience and things like that. See if y'all have a Mock Trial, those are crazy intense for people that want to go into Law School, and is amazing experience.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think law schools will just look at your overall GPA and call it a day. Some will probably take into consideration your improvement from year to year. Also 3.55 GPA is definitely good enough to get into law school depending on your LSAT score.

About not being able to get into the classes you need, is there a waiting list for some of those classes? You need need to get onto the waiting list and go sit in the classes. Then take your plea to the professors and see if you can get enrolled. Some professors will let you in because you are interested enough to pursue it.

Good luck.

[turambar85]

Okay, you need to not bitch about the 3.55. It's not a bad GPA at all, and it's not the only thing law schools consider. They will also look at improvements and essays when you apply, your GPA is not the end of the fucking world.


Well, I bitch because I started off so poorly. My 1st 6 classes I had 2 c+'s 1 C, 2 b-'s and one A. I just didnt try, and my G.P.A is lower because of that.

But anyway, I know its not a bad G.P.A, its just that Im a perfectionist, and law school is a dream of mine.

Also, my essays are not good for stuff like that. I have horrible grammar and bad sentence structure, but I make up for it with creativity and good topics. I am an arguer, not a literary writer. That kind of writing would only hurt my chances. lol

[turambar85]

You could always have internships and get experience before going right to law school. Lots of people get experience before going right to law school. And I wouldn't get down about a 3.5 yet. You still have two years to go. Get some experience and things like that. See if y'all have a Mock Trial, those are crazy intense for people that want to go into Law School, and is amazing experience.


Yes, we have a mock trial course, and I almost passed out when I saw that we did. Very exciting. I will try to take it next fall.

[turambar85]

I don't think law schools will just look at your overall GPA and call it a day. Some will probably take into consideration your improvement from year to year. Also 3.55 GPA is definitely good enough to get into law school depending on your LSAT score.

About not being able to get into the classes you need, is there a waiting list for some of those classes? You need need to get onto the waiting list and go sit in the classes. Then take your plea to the professors and see if you can get enrolled. Some professors will let you in because you are interested enough to pursue it.

Good luck.


Thanks Kori, that helps. I will sit in on some, but 6 of the classes I needed are just simply not being offered this semester. Lazy ass college, lol.

[Jekka]

Kori's right, it is definitely worth it to go talk to the profs. Don't rely solely on your advisors - they can't be everywhere at once for everyone, and you're going to need to do some of it yourself if you need to get into that many classes. Lots of profs will exceed their stated class size for people who make special arrangements with them.

[Gatita]

It is hard giving up a good GPA, but there is a big difference between Community College and a University. Especially, once you are in your Jr. and Sr. years. If you have a type A personality it is probably going to be a rough semester, especially since you are used to doing so well, gradewise.

Either way, best of luck. :)

[turambar85]

It is hard giving up a good GPA, but there is a big difference between Community College and a University. Especially, once you are in your Jr. and Sr. years. If you have a type A personality it is probably going to be a rough semester, especially since you are used to doing so well, gradewise.

Either way, best of luck. :)


Well, I have some optimism for improvement because I have problems with classes that relate to courses taken in Highschool, and I have problems with concentration lapses in classes I have no interest in. Im fascinated with Politics, law, histry, and philosophy, and all of my classes will be related, and no more biology or math, which hurt because I hadnt taken the H/S prereqs.

[Extra Stout]

Cool... you totally have the hair to be Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

[johngateswhiteley]

college is the greatest ever....enjoy it.

[turambar85]

lol. funny. I can either go into private practice, put it in a pony tail, and be a crazy hippie environmental lawyer, or I can cut it, or I can not give a fuck because I dont even want to be a lawyer for that long.

[turambar85]

college is the greatest ever....enjoy it.

Oh yeah, I love college, its just that signing up, registering, and filling out the financial aid forms are harder than taking the classes themselves.

[mookie2001]

so who got the final death blow?

[turambar85]

so who got the final death blow?

The stupid computer registration program. :pctoss

I almost killed somebody while trying to make my schedule, and it was a full room....things could have gone pretty badly, lol.

[midgetonadonkey]

I think you should just drop out.

[turambar85]

Thanks Midget, I appreciate a good word of advice. I think I will drop out. Mcdonalds here I come.

[Extra Stout]

Thanks Midget, I appreciate a good word of advice. I think I will drop out. Mcdonalds here I come.
Midge's example offers a fulfilling life in and out of rehab.

[turambar85]

Midge's example offers a fulfilling life in and out of rehab.

Will he be my mentor?

[midgetonadonkey]

Will he be my mentor?

Sure I'll be your mentor.

[turambar85]

Sure I'll be your mentor.


Great, we will be like Obi-wan and Luke. Except for dirty bathrobes instead of Jedi robes and beer cans instead of lightsabers holstered to our belts.

[Extra Stout]

Great, we will be like Obi-wan and Luke. Except for dirty bathrobes instead of Jedi robes and beer cans instead of lightsabers holstered to our belts.
I think being his mentor involves making a lot of trips to the store for Doritos when he gets the munchies.

[turambar85]

Its a small price to pay to learn from the greatest

[Jekka]

Its a small price to pay to learn from the greatest

You have no idea.

[turambar85]

Could I keep my hair as Midgets apprentice, or do I have to get a horseshoe?

Im trying to weight out my options, if I can't be a lawyer/politician with long hair, then I will go with Midg.

[Jekka]

Whatever is most suitable for yelling at idiot library-goers.

[Das Texan]

a 3.55 GPA gets you gradudation with honors I do believe.

and there is also a little entrance exam law schools look at.


some people have given you some extremely shitty advice.

[zero signal]

Law schools want degrees that emphasize reading and problem solving. Every degree is supposed to do this, but obviously some force you to develop those skills more than others. The idea is that law schools will teach you everything you need to know about law, so bring something else to the table.

Good pre-law degrees: nearly any science (including math and computer science), any engineering, english, philosophy, economics.

Degrees that seem like a good idea but won't score any points with law schools: history, political science, criminal justice, criminology, business law, legal studies.

[Extra Stout]

a 3.55 GPA gets you gradudation with honors I do believe.

and there is also a little entrance exam law schools look at.


some people have given you some extremely shitty advice.
Graduating with a 3.55 is awesome.

Trying to get into upper-level with a 3.55 at a competitive school... can be a challenge.

[Das Texan]

I don't think law schools will just look at your overall GPA and call it a day. Some will probably take into consideration your improvement from year to year. Also 3.55 GPA is definitely good enough to get into law school depending on your LSAT score.

About not being able to get into the classes you need, is there a waiting list for some of those classes? You need need to get onto the waiting list and go sit in the classes. Then take your plea to the professors and see if you can get enrolled. Some professors will let you in because you are interested enough to pursue it.

Good luck.


most classes are closed and could still fit in a couple more. The professor can almost always get you into a class if they want you in it.

[zero signal]

And of course there's your LSAT scores, which may or may not help.

[Das Texan]

Graduating with a 3.55 is awesome.

Trying to get into upper-level with a 3.55 at a competitive school... can be a challenge.


upper level what? upper level schools? classes? programs? what?


and its not like he doesnt have time to improve on that score.


i was able to get into a quite prestigious school with a 3.3 GPA for my graduate studies.


its not the end all. and for anyone to tell you that GPA alone is what gets you anywhere then they are simply fucking stupid.

[turambar85]

Thanks every-1. I will go down and talk to some people Monday, hopefully I can get everything figured out. I don't mind a shitty classload, as long as I can get classes that will work towards my major. I would like to have the classes I want because that would make it easier to enjoy what Im doing, and help me reach my goal of graduating with a 3.65 if they don't reset your g.p.a, or a 3.8 if they do. But, I know that it won't happen that way, nothing is how you want it to be.

[turambar85]

Does anybody know if my G.P.A will reset when I enter U.T, so I can have a fresh slate here? Or does it stick together and equal one cumulative score? And if it does change, will gradutation honors be based on my gpa from both schools, or just U.T? Because I have been doing some calculations, and the highest g.p.a I could end up with if I had a 3.8 from here out is around a 3.65, just enough for magna cum laude....but if it resets I would like to push for a 3.8, Summa cum laude.

[SPARKY]

GPA + LSAT is used first. It's an easy way for schools to sort applicants. Of course, they won't admit that up front but it's the truth. After that, there are other factors. Rep of your undergraduate institution is a factor. If your GPA is a little low but you went to an university with a great reputation then that should help you. Beyond that are the personal statements. Then you can talk about whatever extenuating circumstances you might have experienced growing up or why the world needs you to be a member of the bar. I will say that you should strongly consider applying to public law schools as your total cost of education will be much less (you will have to pay that back at some point and frankly, unless you are looking at a Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or Chicago, it doesn't make that much sense to go to a private school when there are plenty of public law schools that are just as good). There's a lawyer in my household who went to a public law school (top 15 though) and now has an awesome job. Also, if you don't get into the school you want to coming out of undergrad, don't give up. Law schools seem to be jonesing for applicants with 'real world' experience nowadays. Also, you could maybe get a MA in something and then go to law school after that. The one thing I will say is that if you haven't done so already, seek out attorneys and talk to them about what they went through when they were applying to law school. Also, ask them about what their daily life is like. Working 15 to 20 hour days like my little barrister does occassionally aren't that fun.

Also, majoring in Legal Studies isn't exactly going to give you a lock to getting into a school. What matters is your performance in a major. Schools will definitely give the applicant with a 3.0 to 3.3 in an engineering or hard science program some consideration due to the difficulty of the subject matter. I'd say pick a major you like. Also, a lot of times knowledge gained in undergrad can be quite useful when you are a practicing attorney. Majoring in accounting, for example, wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd also look at selecting your major with the view that you might have to make it in the world for a little bit based on that.

Beyond majors and GPA there are activities you are involved in. If you have a well rounded resume with solid academic performance plus plenty of outside activities then you'll look like something other than a drone who can read and take tests. People and leadership skills do matter to an extent. They won't make up for a weak transcript, but they will help to differentiate you from the rest of the library drones. This may seem trite, but a huge part of any attorney's practice, be it corporate, trial, tax or whatever is dealing with people and bringing in business. My lawyer has a personality and is doing well at her job because of it.

[CosmicCowboy]

hmmmmm...you have identified your weakness which is language/writing skills. Those are critical if you want to be an attorney. Don't get too wrapped up in "credits to graduate" and forget that you are there to learn life skills.

Your LSAT score will be critical to getting into a good law school. You are going to have to have good written language skills to smoke it. Take this "frustration" time as a blessing and take some classes to fill that void in your knowledge even if they don't "count" towards your major. You are there to learn, not rack up credits.

My son is an attorney. He fucked off his first two years at UT majoring in music on 6th street and didn't turn it on till his last two years. His GPA was similar to yours, but he had good language skills. He smoked the LSAT and got into Michigan Law School (top 5 law school) and is making 160K working for a blue chip law firm in DC. Use this time wisely and don't get too wrapped up in what "counts" towards your major.

[ShoogarBear]

I know nothing about law school per se, but I have worked on admissions committees at grad and med schools.

First, there's nothing wrong with your GPA. And they absolutely do look at trends, so it rising is a plus.

It's good that you want to be a lawyer, but you don't have to have a single-minded focus on making all your academics revolve around that. What most good schools look for is evidence of achievement. So someone with a 3.4 who was a leader in substantial activities is more likely to be looked on favorably than someone with a 3.9 who only studied. Committees also like to think that excellence in one endeavor translates into another. So if you're an accomplished athlete or musician, that will count with them.

So take courses that interest you, not just those that you think will make you look better for law school. College is not supposed to be just for job preparation.

[Michael]

People have already made the points that I wanted to make, but there are a few points I'd like to add.

If you don't get into the law school you want, or a top law school after you graduate then it would be a good idea to take a year off and work at a law firm. I'm in my third year of law school at UT, and one of my friends was rejected from UT Law after she graduated. She worked in a law firm for the next year, and she reapplied and was accepted. The only thing that changed was her work experience and her personal statement letter.

A MA might be a good idea also. Another friend at UT Law had a poor GPA in undergrad, but she had a good GPA in a MBA program and worked for Enron before it went under, and she was accepted.

The key for next few years is to get involved in organizations and activities on campus. Law schools like it if you're involved at your school, and it shows you're well-rounded and not just a student. Also, you may consider taking a LSAT prep class. It has worked for some people, and a good LSAT will really help, especially if you don't have an especially high GPA.

Good luck!

[ashbeeigh]

It's good that you want to be a lawyer, but you don't have to have a single-minded focus on making all your academics revolve around that. What most good schools look for is evidence of achievement. So someone with a 3.4 who was a leader in substantial activities is more likely to be looked on favorably than someone with a 3.9 who only studied. Committees also like to think that excellence in one endeavor translates into another. So if you're an accomplished athlete or musician, that will count with them.


Get involved in as many things as you can when school does get started, as Shoog mentioned. That kind of stuff looks so good on applications, whether it be mock Trial or a service project, or volunteer project. There's so many things to do. If you don't, and focus soley on your GPA they'll throw you out right away.

[ShoogarBear]

If you get into something, do it because you like it and want to, not because you're trying to check off a box. That usually comes through on the application.

[ashbeeigh]

If you get into something, do it because you like it and want to, not because you're trying to check off a box. That usually comes through on the application.


:tu I'm in so many things right now with people that are doing it just to pad their Grad school applications. I want to "punch them in the face."

[SpursWoman]

a 3.55 GPA gets you gradudation with honors I do believe.


That's cum laude ... with distinction. :)

[Das Texan]

That's cum laude ... with distinction. :)



my spanish grades and computer science grades made sure i didnt get to graduate with honors.


and my deaf ass math teacher who pissed me off so much that i just quit in that class.


*shrugs*

[turambar85]

hmmmmm...you have identified your weakness which is language/writing skills. Those are critical if you want to be an attorney. Don't get too wrapped up in "credits to graduate" and forget that you are there to learn life skills.



Well, its a weakness, but only in some ways. I have not received a grade lower than an A- on an essay in the last 2 semesters except for 2 in poetry(I just dont get that shit) . So its not that I cant write, I just have different writing strengths than I would expect to be favored in a law school entrance exam.

[turambar85]

Also, I never got a response to my question asking if a g.p.a from a community college transfers with you, or if you start fresh.

I have heard that you begin with a new G.P.A when you transfer, but am not sure if the source is reliable. Also, if it doesn't transfer, and I get a new GPA, will both count towards graduation honors, or just my GPA from UT?

[MissAllThat]

Oh, sorry I may have said that poorly. I meant that I started pitifully since I was coming in with no highschool education, and I improved to where my last full year I had 9 A's and 1 B+. I just started so bad that even now my g.p.a is only a 3.55. I wish they considered my improvements...

I think what they told you might be a load of crap, but anyway if its true, they'll probably only be considering your Tennessee GPA, which is dependent on how you do over the next 2 years. So don't worry about your initial GPA at CC since, it probably won't hurt you all that much. If anything, you need to worry more about the LSAT than anything.

As for registration, it sucks. I go to UT, and its horrible. The only thing I can tell you is to email the professors of the classes you are interested in taking to let them know that you want to take the class so that maybe they can add you if someone drops. With some of our classes here there's also a rule that if you don't show up for the first day, you are automatically dropped and someone else who was there is added, so you should look into that too. If there are waitlists for the classes, make sure to put yourself on them. Plus, theres always add/drops. Aside from my first semester here, I've never had a schedule at the beginning that was perfect and that I actually kept. It's not as bad as it seems right now.

[turambar85]

Yeah, I guess that I will survive. :rolleyes I was just kinda hit with a wave of dissapointments during orientation, and I let them get the best of me.

[Oscar DeLa]

Yeah, I guess that I will survive


I don't know what it is but you should be glad YOU didn't get the final DeathBlow!

[CosmicCowboy]

your GPA follows you because your transcript follow you. If your hours transfer your grades will transfer.

[ashbeeigh]

Actually, community college credits, now that I think of it, may transfer as pass/fail. That's how it goes here, and just count as hours? I'd ask your advisor or a professor when you talk to them on Monday.

[MissAllThat]

Yeah, here they just transfer as hours also. The grade will still show up on your transcript, but it won't factor into your GPA.

[atlfan25]

College Is Pimp

When I Register In August, All The Classes I'll Want Will Be Closed

Then They Will All Fucking Bow Down To Me And Put Me In Whatever I Gotdamn Please Then Give Me A Handjob For The Trouble

And It Will Be Great

[MissAllThat]

College Is Pimp

When I Register In August, All The Classes I'll Want Will Be Closed

Then They Will All Fucking Bow Down To Me And Put Me In Whatever I Gotdamn Please Then Give Me A Handjob For The Trouble

And It Will Be Great

...and then you'll wake up from your dream.

[atlfan25]

Alright, So I Won't Get The Handjob

[MissAllThat]

Alright, So I Won't Get The Handjob

Actually, thats the only part that might happen.

[atlfan25]

No, they will bow down to me cause I'll be a senior and they must.

[Das Texan]

College Is Pimp

When I Register In August, All The Classes I'll Want Will Be Closed

Then They Will All Fucking Bow Down To Me And Put Me In Whatever I Gotdamn Please Then Give Me A Handjob For The Trouble

And It Will Be Great


why havent you registered?

[iminlakerland]

Turambar...I've read this thread and there are a couple of options i can offer you in your ordeal with classes. Having dealt with this for the last year as a senior trying to graduate...you got to crash classes. Also immediately email professors and show your interest about wanting to be enrolled in their class. I dont know about your school but CSUN does not have a waiting list, so emailing a professor prior to the semester shows iniciative.

If all fails, you may want to see your department head. At times if classes aren't offered and you make a strong argument and prove your case you may be able to do class substitutions. But you must be able to prove how taking another class will be beneficial to your major.

As far as Community College grades go it all depends on UT and the way they run it. I took the same route as far as transfering goes. I got 3 different GPA's i got my cumulative GPA which includes my community college courses. That will ALWAYS follow you! Then i got my CSUN gpa which just takes into consideration all of the classes i have taken at CSUN, and finally i have my major GPA...takes into consideration how well im doing in my field. If you dont know how UT works, just check out the student manual for this.

I hope what i said helped...good luck with trying to get those classes...and applying to law school. Most everyone already touched on what i wanted to say about GPA, LSAT, and extracurricular activities!

[turambar85]

Damn straight. A 3.55 at my school would be off the charts. I don't know many people with that high of grades. However if you were doing better in beginning, that is kinda weird. I am the total opposite of that:

1st semester in college- 1.8 GPA (Academic Probation) :pctoss
2nd semester in college-3.0 GPA (Off Academic Probation)
3rd semester in college- 3.0 GPA
4th semester in college- 3.3 GPA :


GiG, actually my gpa has improved as well. My Sophomore year it was a 3.95, so, comparably, I started off very poorly.

[JoeChalupa]

Good luck!

[turambar85]

Good luck!

Thanks, I just hope I can get everything sorted out. If I could just manage to get into law school, the rest is gravy. I could get kicked out and end up homeless in my 1st semester and it would all be fine, lol. It is a big deal to me since I didn't do any highschool classes, so have had to put a lot of work into getting to where I am. A reward would be nice.

[turambar85]

it was over 1 full year. 9 A's and 1 B+, I hate Statistics. Math is my weak point.