back court violations

[Duncanoypi]

Can someone confirmed that you can catch a pass even when you're in back court and not to be called as back court violations?...

Is there any rule like that now in the league?...

Thanks!

[ducks]

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2005-06.pdf

RULE NO. 8
OUT-OF-BOUNDS
AND THROW-IN

{...snip...}

Section III—The Throw-In

{...snip...}

e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team’s
frontcourt or at the midcourt line
cannot be passed into the backcourt.
On all backcourt and midcourt
violations, the ball shall be awarded to
the opposing team at the midcourt line,
and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two
minutes of the fourth period and/or any
overtime period, the ball may be passed
anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on
the court.


So No Violation

[texlawman]

He postioned himself in the frontcourt with the ball and then crossed the backcourt line. Violation. I didn't expect any ref to call it though. Refs don't decide games at the end with whistles. Oh wait, they did. My bad.

[MadDog73]

He postioned himself in the frontcourt with the ball and then crossed the backcourt line. Violation. I didn't expect any ref to call it though. Refs don't decide games at the end with whistles. Oh wait, they did. My bad.


They do now... Thanks, Cuban, for ruining basketball.

[picnroll]

He postioned himself in the frontcourt with the ball and then crossed the backcourt line. Violation. I didn't expect any ref to call it though. Refs don't decide games at the end with whistles. Oh wait, they did. My bad.

wtf are you talking about? He caught the ball in the backcourt.

[LEONARD]

[LINK REMOVED]

I didn't think twice about a backcourt violation...

I did think twice about him stiff-arming Terry on the sideline, but that's a tough one to call late in a game like that...

[picnroll]

LEONARD must be AJ bringing up shit and then saying "I didn't think twice" about it. :rollin

[nbascribe]

He postioned himself in the frontcourt with the ball and then crossed the backcourt line. Violation. I didn't expect any ref to call it though. Refs don't decide games at the end with whistles. Oh wait, they did. My bad.

It was in the last two minutes. Read the EXCEPTION part of that rule. He has to be in a position of ready.

Get over it.

[SPARKY]

He left his feet in the frontcourt, caught the ball, and came down with it in the backcourt. All the above snippet from the rule book states is that the ball can be thrown anywhere on the court without a violation. That is not the same issue as establishing position with the ball once it is thrown in from the side in the frontcourt and then going into the backcourt.

[LEONARD]

LEONARD must be AJ bringing up shit and then saying "I didn't think twice" about it. :rollin

:drunk

[picnroll]

He left his feet in the frontcourt, caught the ball, and came down with it in the backcourt. All the above snippet from the rule book states is that the ball can be thrown anywhere on the court without a violation. That is not the same issue as establishing position with the ball once it is thrown in from the side in the frontcourt and then going into the backcourt.
It's borderline and in real time it would be tough to call. Nevertheless dipshit Cuban didn't know the rules and, after the Mavs - Spurs series, if the Mavs lose the title on bad calls it's all the sweeter to me.

[Holmes_Fans]

[YET ANOTHER LINK REMOVED]

slowed down it looks like he catches the ball with a foot down in the frontcourt, then lands and takes 14 steps before the dribbles.


and manu is no longer the kind of floppers, dwyane wade is. Just look at his last shot, that's his game right there.

[picnroll]

slowed down it looks like he catches the ball with a foot down in the frontcourt, then lands and takes 14 steps before the dribbles.


and manu is no longer the kind of floppers, dwyane wade is. Just look at his last shot, that's his game right there.
Soory but your replay clearly shows he got the ball in the backcourt.

[Holmes_Fans]

No, it shows him catching the ball with one foot down in the front court.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No it doesn't, watch again.

[SPARKY]

No, it shows him catching the ball with one foot down in the front court.

Actually, it shows what I saw which was that he caught the ball in the air after he had been in the frontcourt and then landed in the backcourt with it. Generally, when a player is in the air it is where he had been last that matters.

For example, in a situation in which a player with the ball in the frontcourt passes the ball to a 2nd teammate who has jumped from the backcourt and has not landed in the frontcourt, then that is a backcourt violation because the 2nd teammate had not yet established himself in the frontcourt.

In no shape or form did Wade catch the ball in the frontcourt with his foot down. What he did do is catch the ball after he had jumped from the frontcourt into the backcourt. That much is certain.

Upon seeing the clip for the 5th time, in slow motion, he may have caught the ball and landed his feet at the same time in the backcourt. May have.

It doesn't strike me as a horrible or obvious call.

[LEONARD]

PLEASE STFU about this play, Mavs fans...there's nothing there people!!

Damn...

[kalikot_boy_kr]

hey guys!!!! mavs are always commit violation!!........suck!!!

[LEONARD]

hey guys!!!! mavs are always commit violation!!........suck!!!

http://www.manningkrull.com/lj/jules.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6686/owl29do.jpg

[Mavs<Spurs]

Actually, it shows what I saw which was that he caught the ball in the air after he had been in the frontcourt and then landed in the backcourt with it. Generally, when a player is in the air it is where he had been last that matters.

For example, in a situation in which a player with the ball in the frontcourt passes the ball to a 2nd teammate who has jumped from the backcourt and has not landed in the frontcourt, then that is a backcourt violation because the 2nd teammate had not yet established himself in the frontcourt.

In no shape or form did Wade catch the ball in the frontcourt with his foot down. What he did do is catch the ball after he had jumped from the frontcourt into the backcourt. That much is certain.

Upon seeing the clip for the 5th time, in slow motion, he may have caught the ball and landed his feet at the same time in the backcourt. May have.

It doesn't strike me as a horrible or obvious call.

I agree that it was extremely close and it is hard (even on replay) to determine this, but what you saw is what I saw.

Just for clarity and for my own knowledge, if Wade jumped from the frontcourt, caught the ball in mid air and landed in backcourt, is that not a violation (over and back)?

[SPARKY]

Yes, that would be a violation. Of course, it's not clear one way or the other after reviewing it in slo mo.

[Kori Ellis]

Just for clarity and for my own knowledge, if Wade jumped from the frontcourt, caught the ball in mid air and landed in backcourt, is that not a violation (over and back)?

Actually I still don't think that would be a violation.

Because I believe in an out-of-bounds play under 2 minutes the player isn't in an established position until he catches the ball. So I think it's irrelevant that he jumped from front court and caught it midair.

[picnroll]

Just for clarity and for my own knowledge, if Wade jumped from the frontcourt, caught the ball in mid air and landed in backcourt, is that not a violation (over and back)?
I don't think you can be considered to have possesion of the ball until you land with the ball secured.

[Trainwreck2100]

How is position established if the ball isn't live?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think you can be considered to have possesion of the ball until you land with the ball secured.

Exactly.

That's why where he jumped from doesn't matter. He wasn't established til he caught it.

[jman3000]

so kinda think of it as the NFL catch rule?

[ChumpDumper]

Play hasn't started until someone inbounds touches the ball.

[SPARKY]

Exactly.

That's why where he jumped from doesn't matter. He wasn't established til he caught it.


Hmmm. I don't know. Before the rule change, a player who was in the backcourt and then jumped into the frontcourt and caught the ball on a throw-in before he had landed was considered to have committed a backcourt violation.

[Kori Ellis]

Here's why it wasn't a violation.


Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.

That's why I said this.


Actually I still don't think that would be a violation.

Because I believe in an out-of-bounds play under 2 minutes the player isn't in an established position until he catches the ball. So I think it's irrelevant that he jumped from front court and caught it midair.

[Kori Ellis]

So that settles it, I believe.

[SPARKY]

Then that settles it.

[Kori Ellis]

Anyone who wants to forward Cuban a copy of the rule can go ahead :)

[Streakyshooter08]

One last question to the backcourviolation rule: What does "positive position" mean? Positive seems to have an alternate meaning besides "sth. good". Maybe landing with both feet? Thanks for your help.


Has somebody a link where I can find the complete rules? Thank you!!!

[Shank]

The last thing I'll say on this, in somewhat of the defense of the Mavericks.

http://images.radcity.net/5462/1494512.jpg

Ball in hands, foot on ground in the frontcourt. But that's not where the league will admit fault. They have a way around saying they messed up on this call. Similar to the Raiders/Pats "Tuck Rule" of a few years back, there is a lesser known "Momentum Rule" in the NBA - to where the momentum of a player could force him into the backcourt regardless of where he was previously established. IF the league says anything about this supposed gaffe, they'll pull out this card and all will be well in the world.

Back to SPORTS!

[Kori Ellis]

His foot isn't on the ground in that picture. Look at the video in full motion. It looks clear that his feet are off the ground when he catches it.

[FUCKMARKCUBAN]

i watched the game the second time it came on tv and he was in the air when he caught that ball until he dropped into backcourt.... mav fans take your conspiracies somewhere else.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

From the quality of that picture you can't even definitively say that's Wade catching the ball, let alone whether his foot is actually touching the ground or not...

[Shank]

His foot isn't on the ground in that picture. Look at the video in full motion. It looks clear that his feet are off the ground when he catches it.


His foot IS on the ground in that picture. Wade uses the planting of that foot to do his 180 spin into the backcourt. Unless he really is magical and can spin in midair without using something to propel him. If the league issues any sort of statement on this, it will be that Wade's momentum is what pushed him into the backcourt.

[Kori Ellis]

You can't post the video here. But to me, he picks up the foot (to start spinning) before he receives the ball.

The picture you posted is a freezeframe after his foot is already off the ground.

[Pistons < Spurs]

His foot IS on the ground in that picture. Wade uses the planting of that foot to do his 180 spin into the backcourt.


CORRECT.

He ABSOLUTELY is on the ground.

In regular speed I couldn't really tell....but on that slo-mo replay, there is no question at all that he plants the foot, and then hops over the line.

[Kori Ellis]

CORRECT.

He ABSOLUTELY is on the ground.

No way.

It's close. So there's no absolutely about it.

But it looks like he receives the ball as soon as he leaves the ground. I've watched it a lot of times. And I think it's pretty clear that he jumps the instant before catching it. I'd have to see it a lot closer and slower to be ABSOLUTELY sure though :)

[FUCKMARKCUBAN]

i watched it twice with my 20/20 vision...unless for some reason the second time watching it and specifically the end for that play i blinked i guess he could be on the ground.....but he wasnt until he hit the backcourt. goto mavschoke.com bitches!

[windboy226]

The backcourt violation was too unclear to make that call but I do think the stiff arm on Terry by Wade would have been called a foul in any other time of the game.

[Shank]

No way.

It's close. So there's no absolutely about it.

But it looks like he receives the ball as soon as he leaves the ground. I've watched it a lot of times. And I think it's pretty clear that he jumps the instant before catching it. I'd have to see it a lot closer and slower to be ABSOLUTELY sure though :)

It is VERY close. But there's a ref looking right at it that could have made the call. But would he in the waning moments of a Game 5 of the NBA Finals? Doubtful. But the league has their butt covered should a statement come out.

[Kori Ellis]

We either way, the rule is this:


Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.

So if he caught the ball with his foot barely touching the frontcourt, that wouldn't count as establishing a positive position with the ball yet. So it didn't matter until he landed in the backcourt anyway.

That's the bottom line.

[Shank]

We either way, the rule is this:



So if he caught the ball with his foot barely touching the frontcourt, that wouldn't count as establishing a positive position with the ball yet. So it didn't matter until he landed in the backcourt anyway.

That's the bottom line.

But having the ball and being able to turn off of one foot should qualify as being in a positive position. After all, it was having that foot on the ground that gave him the ability to turn around 180 degrees.

[picnroll]

Shank weren't you the guy talking all kinds of shit about Spurs' fans whining?

[Shank]

Shank weren't you the guy talking all kinds of shit about Spurs' fans whining?

Where am I whining, dude? I'm taking the hit and I don't care. I'm making a case. If a lawyer defends one side is he a whiner?

[Kori Ellis]

But having the ball and being able to turn off of one foot should qualify as being in a positive position. After all, it was having that foot on the ground that gave him the ability to turn around 180 degrees.

Well like I said, I don't think he had the ball until he was in the air but "positive position" is probably a judgement call.

Basically, there's not really much to bitch about in this circumstance.

[sabar]

It's pointless, they won't overturn the results of the game.

[ShoogarBear]

If a lawyer defends one side is he a whiner?

Apparently, in June, no; in May, yes.

[CosmicCowboy]

Mark Cuban is an expert on back court violations.

[ShoogarBear]

Mark Cuban is an expert on back court violations.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[DirkAB]

For there to be a backcourt violation he would of had to establish position with all three points in the frontcourt before entering the backcourt. The three points include both feet and the ball, all at the same time. So, even if the ball and one foot were established in the frontcourt before he entered the backcourt, it wasn't a backcourt violation because all three werent' established in the frontcourt.

[jmard5]

The poster before me made a good explanation based on the NBA guidelines provided by Kori.

Mavs fans, Cuban is feeding off of all your whinings. You can argue all you want because you want to place blame other than the Mavs. 2 series ago, you all were having a good time hearing Spurs fans "bitching" about the officiating.

Bottomline, Mavs choked with a touch of karma.

And uh. mavs fans? Murphy's Laws makes perfect sense to me right now. :lol

[rasho8]

He should have stiff armed Dirk.. oh no wait... Dirk isnt getting pussy calls in this series... that was the Mavs/Spurs series... oh well.