Boy, 6, plunges to death from top of Ferris wheel

[thepeopleslawyer]

STOCKTON, California (AP) -- A 6-year-old boy plunged 90 feet to his death from the top of a Ferris wheel while his mother watched from below at the San Joaquin County Fair, authorities said.

Ruben Castillo was riding alone in his gondola, which was near the top of the 100-foot Giant Wheel when he fell Sunday afternoon, authorities said.He was pronounced dead at a hospital.

California Occupational Safety and Health Administration officials, who are investigating the incident, were told that the boy tried to climb out of his seat, said spokesman Dean Fryer. It was not immediately clear why he climbed out or whether he was properly secured in the seat, Fryer said. (Watch Ruben's mom explain why he was alone -- 1:40)

The fair's rides have no age restrictions, only a height requirement, which Ruben met for the Giant Wheel, said Forrest White, the fair's executive director.

The ride was operated by Fairfield-based Butler Amusements Inc. and had a valid permit, which was due for its annual renewal next month, Fryer said.

"We are extremely sorry this tragic accident occurred," said Butler Amusements spokeswoman Mary Castel. The Giant Wheel will remain closed until the investigation is complete.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/20/ferris.wheel.death.ap/index.html

[Taco]

STOCKTON, California (AP) -- A 6-year-old boy plunged 90 feet to his death from the top of a Ferris wheel while his mother watched from below

Why wasn't mom in there with him?

[Mixability]

Why wasn't mom in there with him?

Cause she was a fucking dumbass. I hope her bitch ass doesn't lawyer up and get paid for being a dumbass. Did she not meet the height requirement?!?!? :pctoss

[Drill Instructor]

Maybe Private T Park should just learn how to fucking run his god damn ferris wheel properly instead of not paying any attention because he's too damn busy eating all the god damn cotton candy and funnel cakes at the fair!

[Mixability]

Maybe Private T Park should just learn how to fucking run his god damn ferris wheel properly instead of not paying any attention because he's too damn busy eating all the god damn cotton candy and funnel cakes at the fair!

Even I refrained from pulling out the T Park smack.....geez

If in the same situation, I'm sure T Park wouldn't be THAT dumb to let a f'n 6 year old ride a ferris wheel alone.

[ALVAREZ6]

That was very stupid of the mom.



That is terrible though, the kid was only 6.

[Old School Chic]

:depressed

[1Parker1]

Why wasn't mom in there with him?


Maybe she was afraid of heights? Seriously though, that's a shame. Why would the ferris wheel operator let the boy get on there by himself to begin with?

This is why I don't ride Ferris Wheels. :depressed

[Mixability]

Maybe she was afraid of heights? Seriously though, that's a shame. Why would the ferris wheel operator let the boy get on there by himself to begin with?

This is why I don't ride Ferris Wheels. :depressed

If the ferris wheel operator denied the boy access, we'd be hearing, "Tonight on Troubleshooters, Ferris Wheel operator discriminates against the child of a single mom, stay tuned after the NBA Finals for more infomation on this hate crime." :rolleyes

[1Parker1]

:wtf

[jman3000]

I always have a reoccuring nightmare of falling out of a roller coaster and falling an unrealistic amount of time before I finally hit the pavement. I've had a fear of amusement park rides since I was a kid.

[1Parker1]

Me too. I remember seeing on the news one day a guy who fell from the ferris wheel and got caught on the spokes in the middle of the wheel, ever since then I never sat on a Ferris Wheel again. I don't like roller coasters either, I think I've sat on maybe 1 or 2 my entire life. I prefer water rides :lol

[Old School Chic]

I always have a reoccuring nightmare of falling out of a roller coaster and falling an unrealistic amount of time before I finally hit the pavement. I've had a fear of amusement park rides since I was a kid.

No Fiesta Texas season passes for you

[atxrocker]

i used to have a fear of rollercoaster when i was young. when going to amusement parks and such i would always be the one to refuse getting on the "scary" rides. as i got older i made it a point to try to shed that fear and get on any and all rides and have improved greatly. mostly i experience anxiety now but always get a rush and a kick out of state of the art rides. such fun.

[jman3000]

No Fiesta Texas season passes for you
:lol
i actually had them for like 5 straight years. i stuck to the arcades :fro

[Jules]

I caught this story on the evening news last night.

What a horrible, tragic accident. I'm don't know why someone was not riding with the child, and I'm certainly not pointing blame... however, I would think for the safety of all children, there should be age requirements (in conjunction with height requirements) for riding alone.

I feel sorry for everyone involved, including the bystanders that were witness to this terribly unfortunate accident.

[T Park]

I would think for the safety of all children, there should be age requirements (in conjunction with height requirements) for riding alone

heres the problem with that.

You attach age to any requirement to get in, then parents lie and say "Well he is 7" When the kid is like 5.

Thats why there is a height requirement.


From what Ive talked to the inspectors here at where Im at, the child met the height requirement, so right there, the operator is not at fault, he passed all safety regulations, all the blame goes on the parent for not having COMMON SENSE to ride.

He was fine through out the ride, and when it stopped, and these things stop slowly, but when they do, the cars softly rock, nothing you can do about it, he got spooked, and jumped out.


Im sure though, she will get a lawyer, sue for money, and settle out of court with the insurance, driving our insurance way the hell up, and hurting all the rest of us in the industry.

[T Park]

If in the same situation, I'm sure T Park wouldn't be THAT dumb to let a f'n 6 year old ride a ferris wheel alone

Well first off, I don't own a ferris wheel.

Second, I prob wouldn't let the child ride,BUT, heres what happens when you do that.


"Sorry mam, i cant allow him to ride alone"

"Why not he meets the height requirement"

"well, he might need supervision"

"WHERE IS YOUR SUPERVISOR YOU RUDE BASTARD"



Thats the exact way it would happen.


Parents don't care about safety, they care about their kids being happy.


I've been subject to soo many arguements andinsults from parents, because their kids didn't meet height requirements.

It would sicken you.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's quite easy to put a neocon spin on things that aren't remotely political, isnt it?

[batman2883]

cbf????!?!?!? my nicca

[T Park]

It's quite easy to put a neocon spin on things that aren't remotely political, isnt it?



I don't see how I put anything neocon on it.

[SpursWoman]

He didn't spin anything. Asshole parents are asshole parents. :wtf



My kids & I love every kind of ride ... and they have a very healthy respect for them.

That poor baby. :depressed

[T Park]

Good to hear Sdub.

Too bad all parents don't have 1/5th the common sense you and your kids do.

[Guru of Nothing]

BUT, heres what happens when you do that.


"Sorry mam, i cant allow him to ride alone"

"Why not he meets the height requirement"

"well, he might need supervision"

"WHERE IS YOUR SUPERVISOR YOU RUDE BASTARD"



Thats the exact way it would happen.



Tpark - how old should a person be before they ride a ferris wheel solo that rises 90 feet in the air?

Some things are not that complicated, despite your bias .....


ETA: Parents and ride operators represent my warped sense of checks and balances to protect the child (in this instance). .... No matter how you slice it, the child got the business end of the deal.

[T Park]

Tpark - how old should a person be before they ride a ferris wheel solo that rises 90 feet in the air?

Some things are not that complicated, despite your bias .....



No idea, I don't own one.

Despite my bias?

Typical of you to assume things.

[Guru of Nothing]

No idea, I don't own one.

Despite my bias?

Typical of you to assume things.

I assume you are a rock and roll star at a SpursTalk GTG.

[T Park]

youd assume wrong again :lmao

[Kori Ellis]

How horrible!

When I was young and went on rides (including ferris wheels) at the fair, there was always a requirement that kids under a certain height couldn't ride at all and kids under 12 couldn't ride alone.

Even if there wasn't an age requirement at this place, I think it would be common sense for both the parent and the ride operator that a kid who is 6 shouldn't be riding alone.

[CuckingFunt]

I live in Stockton, unfortunately. They don't build 'em too smart out here.

[NorCal510]

I live in Stockton, unfortunately. They don't build 'em too smart out here.

true brotha

[CuckingFunt]

true brotha

Appreciate the validation, but I'm not a brotha. :spin

[T Park]

I think it would be common sense for both the parent and the ride operator that a kid who is 6 shouldn't be riding alone.


While that may be true Kori.

If the ride operator asks, "How old is your child" the parent will lie, if it means for the child to get on.

Operator is no way in fault in this situation.

[Kori Ellis]

While that may be true Kori.

If the ride operator asks, "How old is your child" the parent will lie, if it means for the child to get on.

Operator is no way in fault in this situation.

TPark - I'm saying that the places should have a policy that kids under 12 don't ride alone.

I don't think anyone can pretend their 6 year old is really 12.

[T Park]

You can't really prove it.


If you say, you can't ride alone if your under 12, the parent will say, "Oh its ok, hes 12"


Im serious.

Ive deal with the parents out here in California.


Ive had kids 3 inches too short to ride rides that go upside down 75 feet up int he air.


"Oh come on, dont be a dick, let the kid ride"

"Im sorry sir, the safety regulations prohibit us from letting him ride"

"Your a fucking asshole, Ill have your job dickwad"


Thats the typical go around.


Joe blow who runs the ride, whos out in 90 degree heat is gonna say, fuck it, no one will listent o me, cause im just a "dirty carny" so fuck it.

[Kori Ellis]

TPark - I agree that parents might say their 10 year old is 12. But no one can pass off a 6 year old as 12.

But obviously there's not an age restriction currently.

And that's what I think sucks.

[MannyIsGod]

Theres no excuse for letting a child who shoudln't be riding alone. Carnival personal aren't the only ones who deal with bitchy customers. There's just no excuse.

[T Park]

Theres no excuse for letting a child who shoudln't be riding alone. Carnival personal aren't the only ones who deal with bitchy customers. There's just no excuse.




Lets put you out on the ride at 10 am in 95 degree weather and see how you handle it.

[T Park]

Theres no excuse for letting a child who shoudln't be riding alone

If the kid is tall enough, there is NOTHING, to tell them, they can't, other than pissing off the Parents.

But of course, youve got SOOOOO much experience that you can talk.

[T Park]

I think you are referring to the California State Fair

actually no, if I was, id say stick you out there in 105 degree heat and be surrounded by pissed off tattooed aholes.

[Carie]

While there may have been nothing legally they could do to stop him from riding, I would hope they would have at least tried to stop the mother from allowing it. If it was me I would have rather taken the flack from the parent to try and keep the kid safe.

[Slomo]

You can't really prove it.


If you say, you can't ride alone if your under 12, the parent will say, "Oh its ok, hes 12"


Im serious.

Ive deal with the parents out here in California.


Ive had kids 3 inches too short to ride rides that go upside down 75 feet up int he air.


"Oh come on, dont be a dick, let the kid ride"

"Im sorry sir, the safety regulations prohibit us from letting him ride"

"Your a fucking asshole, Ill have your job dickwad"


Thats the typical go around.


Joe blow who runs the ride, whos out in 90 degree heat is gonna say, fuck it, no one will listent o me, cause im just a "dirty carny" so fuck it.
I disagree with you Manny on this one. Parent are responsible for their children - first and upmost! If a parent lets a young child that meets the height requirement ride solo, it's his responsabilty! If the child was alone then it would have to be the ride operator's call.

As for the pissy comments. I've actually witnessed a guy almost getting into a fight with a ride operator at a major California amusement park, because he was not allowed on the ride with his wife and their newly born baby. The ride was a roller coaster with several turns pulling around 3G and a multitude of loops and screws. When people in line supported the ride operator (who was a thin, young college boy) the guy actually exchanged punches with a few people - at that point the park security people arrived and put a stop to it.


Although I have to say - and I'm sure TPark knows it - if they don't meet the requirements (as minimal as they are) they shouldn't be allowed on the ride despite throwing insults left and right. My Carnie career would end at the first incident of this kind - I'd get in an argument real fast with idiots like that :lol

[Mixability]

Well first off, I don't own a ferris wheel.

Second, I prob wouldn't let the child ride,BUT, heres what happens when you do that.


"Sorry mam, i cant allow him to ride alone"

"Why not he meets the height requirement"

"well, he might need supervision"

"WHERE IS YOUR SUPERVISOR YOU RUDE BASTARD"



Thats the exact way it would happen.


Parents don't care about safety, they care about their kids being happy.


I've been subject to soo many arguements andinsults from parents, because their kids didn't meet height requirements.

It would sicken you.

I agree with T Park on this one.... DID I JUST SAY THAT!?!??! :spin

The Mom is totally at fault for this one. The kid is 6! I don't even like leaving my 8 year old neice in a room by herself when I'm watching her. Kids sometimes don't (never) have the patience to sit down for a long period of time. Especially when the ride is over and your stuck in the same position, while the ferris wheel is being emptied. Hell, they've taken so long at the Fiesta Texas ferris wheel, that I've contemplated jumping off.

Hopefully this dumbass doesn't have any other kids, if she does, pray for them.

[T Park]

After what Ive heard today, from our safety meeting this morning.

The operator is not at fault.


The operator measured the child, and the child MORE than met the manufacturer's height requirement.

After that, the operator is not at fault.


You can say "A child that young blah blah blah"

Different kids act differently.


Should there be an age limit? Probobly, but thats not my call.

Once again, there is NO WAY you can prove or legitimately know a child's age.


There is also no definitive age that you can say "Hes not going to get spooked and jump out"


There is zero, to NO WAY you can guess or know.

[Old School Chic]

I believe you, T-Park :spin

[Carie]

I believe you too. I'm just saying, if it were me I wouldn't feel right if I didn't at least try.

[CosmicCowboy]

Unfuckingbelievable. The mother should be horsewhipped and then sterilized. I wouldn't let my kids on rides alone till they were practically old enough to drive. It's not just the safety issue...you don't want a small child to be stuck on a ride alone if they get scared...it's too potentially traumatizing even when it's not fatal like this time.

[Mixability]

Unfuckingbelievable. The mother should be horsewhipped and then sterilized. I wouldn't let my kids on rides alone till they were practically old enough to drive. It's not just the safety issue...you don't want a small child to be stuck on a ride alone if they get scared...it's too potentially traumatizing even when it's not fatal like this time.

I just want to know what her dumbass reason was to not get on with him.

[MannyIsGod]

I think you all miunderstood me. I think both the ride operator and the mother are at fault. However, the ride operator is the one legaly running the business and has the burden to make sure their ride is safe for the people who are on it. It obviously wasn't. If the limitations that are setup are not enough, then there are some problems. It is very obvious that height restrictions alone here are not enough.

If ride operators an't do their job correctly because of security concerns, then that is another issue they need to take care of.

I will say this. I don't care if you have 100 screaming mothers and 100 tatooed bikers all yelling at you to let their kids ride in 120 degree heat. There is no excuse for allowing an unsafe situation on your ride. If there are problems that are causing unsafe situations to occur, then those problems need to be fixed. The But this and but that and but but but just don't fly when it comes to the safety of children.

[bigzak25]

maybe the kid just wanted to end it all....times are tough all over....

[midgetonadonkey]

:ttiwwp:

[MannyIsGod]

maybe the kid just wanted to end it all....times are tough all over....Man, thats bad, but thats actually pretty funny.

[T Park]

the ride operator is the one legaly running the business and has the burden to make sure their ride is safe for the people who are on it. It obviously wasn't

:lol

are we an expert ride builder and inspector now manny? :lmao



If ride operators an't do their job correctly because of security concerns, then that is another issue they need to take care of

The child met the manufacturer's height requirement.




Just stop, you have absolutely ZERO idea what the heck you are talking about.

[MannyIsGod]

Are you saying the child riding alone wasn't an unsafe situation?

I need to be an expert to understand that because the child died it was an unsafe situation and everyone failed him? What the fuck?

[MannyIsGod]

I just want to get one thing straight Eric, do you feel that the rider owner/operator shares any of the fault?

[T Park]

do you feel that the rider owner/operator shares any of the fault

The child met the safety standards set by the manufacturer.


No.

[T Park]

Are you saying the child riding alone wasn't an unsafe situation?



Prob so.

But the ride operator did everything on the safety side.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, you admit that a child riding alone constitutes an unsafe situation, but you do not feel that the owner/operator has an obligation to prevent that unsafe situation from occuring?

[T Park]

I said it PROB is.


Heres what you dont understand.


All kids act different, that kid who jumped out, a kid thats 5 thats tall enough could sit there the whole time and be cool.



If you think having an age minimum fixes that, Ive seen 18 year olds try and jump out of rides.

Does that mean you set an over 21 limit?



Should the parent have ridden with the child? NOW obviously.


But the ride operators obligation is, you check the height, if he is tall enough and able to walk onto the ride on his own power, then you let him.


Just instituting an age limit DOESNT work.


Kids, parents, families LIE, and you have zero idea, without them bringing a damn birth certificate with them to know.

That simple.

[MannyIsGod]

I made the mistake in feeling that ferris wheel operators would have the common sense to know that a six year old should not be allowed to ride alone where there is a situation they could fall 90 feet.

If parents lie to an operator, then obviously the operator would not be at fault, but the ride owner/operator has responsibility outside of the manufacturers requirements in order to prevent unsafe situations from occuring. If there is any chance a child could be put into a situation such as this, then the operator can refuse them service unless accompanied by a parent. I do not see why excercising such judgement is such a hard thing to ask.

I am fully aware of how parents can be complete dicks and lie. I know they can make a scene and make the operators life and job hell. But none of that removes the responsibility of making sure there are no unsafe situations occuring on the ride.

[MannyIsGod]

Let me ask you this question Tpark.

In the future do you think the company should allow six years (or children who look like six year olds) to ride alone?

[T Park]

manny.

First off.

You have ZERO clue, about the amusement ride industry, so please stop talking like you DO.


To answer your question, prob not.

But its typical of you to say "The operator shouldnt"


Once again.


You get your ass out there and try and experience it.


You talk big sitting behind a computer in an air conditioned room playing poker all day


But having to do REAL work, and dealing with people that will sacrafice their children's safety?

Ha.

[T Park]

I made the mistake in feeling that ferris wheel operators would have the common sense to know that a six year old should not be allowed to ride alone where there is a situation they could fall 90 feet


Because youve dealt with and worked in that situation SOOOOO many times.


Once again, i forgot i was dealing with someone who thinks they know everything.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

I've never done real work now? Man, I'm talking to you in a calm way and you're about to blow a gasket. I haven't lobbed one insult, yet you've lobbed many. Look dude, Im' having a civil conversation but if you want to turn this into a flame war I'll happily join you and make you feel pretty damn shitty. So either keep the conversation without the insults or I'm going to start lobbing them. Consider that your only warning.

I don't see where me having amusement ride experience is relevent in the least to me developing an opinion on whether or not a six year old being alone and 100 feet off the ground in a situation where they can fall to their death is unsafe. I'm gonna chalk that one up to common sense.

Now, either you agree its an unsafe situation or you feel its a safe situation. If it is an unsafe situation, then I don't see any way possible it would be ok to allow it on your ride.

Also, there are reports that the child was dangling for 40 seconds before he fell but the operator wasn't paying attention and didn't understand the mother when she tried to get his attention. That doesn't exactly speak wonders for the operator.

[NorCal510]

grow up fellas

[Mixability]

I can't but compare this incident to something else:

My sister just got her license, she went to drivers ed, alot of class time, not a lot of actual driving time. I KNOW she's not ready for the streets, but she's met the legal requirements, has a car, and insurance. My parents don't let her drive alone, because they KNOW she's not ready. So if she were to get on the highway and kill some people in a accident, do you think it right for my parents to sue the DPS for issuing my sister a license and not to take any responsibility for allowing her to drive while knowing she wasn't ready?

[T Park]

Also, there are reports that the child was dangling for 40 seconds before he fell but the operator wasn't paying attention and didn't understand the mother when she tried to get his attention. That doesn't exactly speak wonders for the operator

total bullshit not true.

He got spooked when the ride stopped, got out of his restraints and jumped out.

Don't believe everything you read.

[MannyIsGod]

I can't but compare this incident to something else:

My sister just got her license, she went to drivers ed, alot of class time, not a lot of actual driving time. I KNOW she's not ready for the streets, but she's met the legal requirements, has a car, and insurance. My parents don't let her drive alone, because they KNOW she's not ready. So if she were to get on the highway and kill some people in a accident, do you think it right for my parents to sue the DPS for issuing my sister a license and not to take any responsibility for allowing her to drive while knowing she wasn't ready?Talk about piss poor analogy. I'm tempted to just ignore it because its so damn off base.

Anyhow, you're comparing a 16 year old licensed driver driving to a 6 year old riding a ferris wheel alone. Do you understand how ridiculous that comparison is?

Anyhow, I wasn't absolving the parent of responsibility, but I'm not too sure anyone here actually belives that letting a six year old ride alone is safe thing to do.

What kind of restraints do they have? How was the child able to get out?

[MannyIsGod]

total bullshit not true.

He got spooked when the ride stopped, got out of his restraints and jumped out.

Don't believe everything you read.I am going off of what was in print in several news sources according to eyewitness reports, what are you going off of?

[Kori Ellis]

Like I said earlier in this thread, to me it's plain common sense on the behalf of the mother and the ride operator that a six year old is too young to ride alone.

I know there's currently no age restrictions, but there should be. And yes, some parents will lie on the age. But a 6 year old can't fake being 12. And the ride operator could easily tell the parent, sorry - he can't ride alone - I don't think he's 12 (or whatever number).

Sure, the operator might get bitched out and hassled. But isn't that better than scraping a 6 year olds blood and brains off the pavement?

Just a thought.

[MannyIsGod]

Ruben Castillo dangled for about 40 seconds before falling. Sophia Castillo believes her son, who was riding alone, panicked, and tried to climb out of the car.

She screamed at the operator to bring her son's car to the bottom, but he only spoke Spanish and didn't understand, she said.

Jared Costanza, from the advocacy organization Rideaccidents.com, said the boy should never have been allowed on the ride by himself, but did not blame the family.

"It's common sense that a 6-year-old child has no business riding alone on a 90-foot-tall ride that has no seat belts or restraints," he said. "People can blame the boy's parents or the ride operator because they should have known better, but the blame really lies with the industry, because they do know better. Yet there are no standards to prevent this from happening in the future."
http://insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_3962159

[T Park]

what are you going off of


The ride inspectors that are there.


Yeah, but what the hell do I know.

[T Park]

Yeah Manny, cause you can believe EVERYTHING thats in the media.

[T Park]

but he only spoke Spanish and didn't understand, she said.


Thats also a 100% fabrication and lie.

[T Park]

Jared Costanza, from the advocacy organization Rideaccidents.com

:lol

thats not an advocacy organization, its a website that reports ride accidents.

More great reporting.

[MannyIsGod]

I never said you didn't know what you were talking about, I asked you a question. There is no reason for you to get so defensive.

Then why are all the AP reports saying he dangled for 40 seconds? Are they all wrong?

[T Park]

But a 6 year old can't fake being 12. And the ride operator could easily tell the parent, sorry - he can't ride alone - I don't think he's 12 (or whatever number).


Id agree with that Kori.

But heres what happens.

You do that, then the parents go complain to the fair, who sends a rep down, SCOLDS the operator for doing that, then tells the operator to let the child ride.

Once again, got some experience with these kind of things :lol

[T Park]

Then why are all the AP reports saying he dangled for 40 seconds? Are they all wrong?

I know its hard to believe but yeah they are wrong.

There was a ride inspector that just "happened" to be there.

Im serious.

And that is not true, the child literally JUMPED out.

and fell.

Remember what I said about how people like to have prejudices against carnival people?

Well carnivals are no different, and the media will NOT, go to the lengths to get ALL the facts right.

[Mixability]

Talk about piss poor analogy. I'm tempted to just ignore it because its so damn off base.

Anyhow, you're comparing a 16 year old licensed driver driving to a 6 year old riding a ferris wheel alone. Do you understand how ridiculous that comparison is?

Anyhow, I wasn't absolving the parent of responsibility, but I'm not too sure anyone here actually belives that letting a six year old ride alone is safe thing to do.

What kind of restraints do they have? How was the child able to get out?

I was letting people know what I was comparing it to, not what it's similar too. The parent was a dumbass, the operator let it pass because the child DID meet the requirements, I believe it falls MORE on the parents.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah Manny, cause you can believe EVERYTHING thats in the media.No Tpark, you can't. But the AP isn't exactly a bad source for information. They get things right the vast majority of the time.

[Kori Ellis]

Id agree with that Kori.

But heres what happens.

You do that, then the parents go complain to the fair, who sends a rep down, SCOLDS the operator for doing that, then tells the operator to let the child ride.

Once again, got some experience with these kind of things :lol

Umm TPark, if there was an actual age restriction, then the rep wouldn't scold the operator for doing his job.

That's crap.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll withhold judgement on what actually happend untill more facts come out. However, ever report that I've read has said the child hung there for a good while. The only thing contradicting that is a third hand account Tpark is passing on. I'm not saying Tpark is wrong or is lying, I'm merely pointing out the vast majority of the information is saying.

If there is an industry wide problem with dealing with bad parents, then that needs to be fixed. If that means that when an operator refuses someone to ride for what he/she feels are safety concerns, then the people above he/she need to back them up. But the bottom line is that at some point the people in charge of the rides need to share in the responsibility of deciding who is fit to ride with a bit more than height.

[MannyIsGod]

http://images.recordnet.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=RN&Date=20060620&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=606200327&Ref=AR&Profile=1001&MaxW=580&title=1
No way in hell I'm putting a six year old in something like that alone when it has no restraints. Thats an accident waiting to happen.

[MannyIsGod]

State law does not prevent children from riding alone as long as they meet the basic height requirement - in this case, 36 inches with an adult or 42 inches unsupervised. Reuben was around 45 inches tall, Sophia Castillo said.

Cal/OSHA has the authority to stiffen those rules but has never before needed to with a Ferris wheel, Fryer said. Tougher rules could include requiring safety restraints, he said.

Joanne Deocampo, an administrator at the University of California, Davis, Center for Child and Family Studies, said height doesn't translate to a child's emotional ability to handle a ride. A young child can be taller than 42 inches and still be too young to handle the fear of heights that can set in on a Ferris wheel and other tall rides, she said.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/NEWS01/606200327/1001

[MannyIsGod]

"This 6-year-old child should have never been allowed on an adult ride by themselves. ... That ride operator should have stopped that child from going on that ride," said Ken Martin, a national ride-safety consultant.


He has experience in the ride industry and he is saying what I am saying

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/NEWS01/606200322/1001

[MannyIsGod]

The Stockton newspaper shows nothing about him hanging there for a while, however.

[atxrocker]

I was letting people know what I was comparing it to, not what it's similar too. The parent was a dumbass, the operator let it pass because the child DID meet the requirements, I believe it falls MORE on the parents.


i agree

[T Park]

then the rep wouldn't scold the operator for doing his job.

That's crap.


Welcome to our world.

This is what happens.

[T Park]

But the bottom line is that at some point the people in charge of the rides need to share in the responsibility of deciding who is fit to ride with a bit more than height.

:lol

spoken like a true ride owner and someone who is educated in ride ownership.


You sound like the government,

[T Park]

He has experience in the ride industry

Hes a former lawyer who has ZERO experience in this business.

Hes a "consultant'


Once again Manny, your too trusting in what your reading on the internet.

[jman3000]

http://images.recordnet.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=RN&Date=20060620&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=606200327&Ref=AR&Profile=1001&MaxW=580&title=1
No way in hell I'm putting a six year old in something like that alone when it has no restraints. Thats an accident waiting to happen.

Wow ... fuck that. I don't think I would even ride in that. I was picturing the ones they always have at the rodeo with the semi-cage around it.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

spoken like a true ride owner and someone who is educated in ride ownership.


You sound like the government,There you go with the namecalling instead of providing an argument.

And you sound like a business owner who wants to wipe his hands clean if something happens on his rides. With a business comes the responsibility to share in the liability if an accident happens. Thats pretty standard.

[MannyIsGod]

Hes a former lawyer who has ZERO experience in this business.

Hes a "consultant'


Once again Manny, your too trusting in what your reading on the internet.Who is else is going to be able to tell you when you're legally liable in a situation other than a lawyer Tpark? If he's consulting on something then he has experience in it. If he hasn't spent time pulling levers and dealing with customers it doesn't mean he can't tell you when you have a legal responsibility to provide for the safety of customers.

You seem to have a belief that the only people who can do that are the people who actually operate the rides.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.sfftnet.com/areas/gallery/0301/1.jpg

That is the pictuer of the ferris wheel at Fiesta Texas. Notice the bars that the one where the accident occured doesn't have. Seems as though thats something that should be pretty standard.

They require any children under 42 inches to be accompanied by an adult even with the bars.

[T Park]

:lol

now were determining standards on rides...

[T Park]

With a business comes the responsibility to share in the liability if an accident happens.

Not if the person does something that I can't control.

Like standup, or do something the safety rules tell you not to do.

[MannyIsGod]

Not if the person does something that I can't control.

Like standup, or do something the safety rules tell you not to do.A six year old is not capable of understanding all safety rules to the point it removes you from liablity. Thats exactly the point!

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

now were determining standards on rides...Yeah, common sense dictates a few things here and there.

[CosmicCowboy]

The world is not a safe place. There is no way some all powerful "they" can write rules or regulations to make everything in the world "safe". At some point, people have to assume responsibility for their decisions and actions. It is the parents responsibility to make those decisions for their child until they are old enough to make those decisions for themselves.

I clearly blame the mother in this situation. She was negligent and stupid and her child died because of it.

That being said, It is a virtual guarantee that there will be a lawsuit and a jury will award the dumb bitch a shitload of money for her sons death.

[Slomo]

The world is not a safe place. There is no way some all powerful "they" can write rules or regulations to make everything in the world "safe". At some point, people have to assume responsibility for their decisions and actions. It is the parents responsibility to make those decisions for their child until they are old enough to make those decisions for themselves.

I clearly blame the mother in this situation. She was negligent and stupid and her child died because of it.

That being said, It is a virtual guarantee that there will be a lawsuit and a jury will award the dumb bitch a shitload of money for her sons death.:tu

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I don't disagree the mother was stupid but how anyone with a shred of common sense can put a six year old child into that ferris wheel with no bars no cage without a damn thing to stop someone from falling over alone blows my mind. I doubt any of you would even think about doing it. Look at the picture of it! There's NOTHING to stop a kid who is jumping around acting like a...well.. KID...from falling over.

[jcrod]

Man, I don't disagree the mother was stupid but how anyone with a shred of common sense can put a six year old child into that ferris wheel with no bars no cage without a damn thing to stop someone from falling over alone blows my mind. I doubt any of you would even think about doing it. Look at the picture of it! There's NOTHING to stop a kid who is jumping around acting like a...well.. KID...from falling over.


Agreed, the mom was stupid and should be held accountable, but the operator should have also know not to let a 6yr old go by himself.

[T Park]

but the operator should have also know not to let a 6yr old go by himself.


oh really....


The kid met the height requirement.

So now he has to fortell into the future?

Interesting.

[MannyIsGod]

Joanne Deocampo, an administrator at the University of California, Davis, Center for Child and Family Studies, said height doesn't translate to a child's emotional ability to handle a ride. A young child can be taller than 42 inches and still be too young to handle the fear of heights that can set in on a Ferris wheel and other tall rides, she said.


"This 6-year-old child should have never been allowed on an adult ride by themselves. ... That ride operator should have stopped that child from going on that ride," said Ken Martin, a national ride-safety consultant.




What a horrible, tragic accident. I'm don't know why someone was not riding with the child, and I'm certainly not pointing blame... however, I would think for the safety of all children, there should be age requirements (in conjunction with height requirements) for riding alone.


Even if there wasn't an age requirement at this place, I think it would be common sense for both the parent and the ride operator that a kid who is 6 shouldn't be riding alone.

Am I making my point clear, T Park?







Even I refrained from pulling out the T Park smack.....geez

If in the same situation, I'm sure T Park wouldn't be THAT dumb to let a f'n 6 year old ride a ferris wheel alone.


oh really....


The kid met the height requirement.

So now he has to fortell into the future?

Interesting.

:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

*Headline*

"Six year old child playing in traffic hit and killed"

Manny expert #1:

"That poor child...this just proves that SUV's are inherently dangerous and should be banned"

Manny expert #2:

"THEY" should have had signs up warning drivers to watch for children playing in the street.

Manny expert #3:

"The car manufacturer is at fault...if they had installed air bags on the front bumper this tragic accident would have never happened."

Manny expert #4:

"The salesman that sold the car was at fault because he should have known that the driver had a propensity to run over children and he should never have sold him the car."

Cosmic Cowboy:

"Where the fuck were the parents and why was this kid playing in the street?"

[Marklar MM]

Someone told him to go play in the road. I tell people sometimes.

[SpursWoman]

height doesn't translate to a child's emotional ability to handle a ride. A young child can be taller than 42 inches and still be too young to handle the fear of heights that can set in on a Ferris wheel and other tall rides, she said.

Am I making my point clear, T Park?


Basically what that quote is telling me is that not only do ride operators need to enforce height requirements (which they should), now they have to psychoanalyze every child that approaches the ride to see if he or she is emotionally mature enough to ride it?

I know what my children are afraid of, what they like, don't like, how they react to things, etc...I wouldn't expect a total stranger to. And I wouldn't throw them into the deep end alone unless I knew they could swim, so to speak.

Mother's fault, as tragic as that is, by a mile.

[1Parker1]

*Headline*

"Six year old child playing in traffic hit and killed"

Manny expert #1:

"That poor child...this just proves that SUV's are inherently dangerous and should be banned"

Manny expert #2:

"THEY" should have had signs up warning drivers to watch for children playing in the street.

Manny expert #3:

"The car manufacturer is at fault...if they had installed air bags on the front bumper this tragic accident would have never happened."

Manny expert #4:

"The salesman that sold the car was at fault because he should have known that the driver had a propensity to run over children and he should never have sold him the car."

Cosmic Cowboy:

"Where the fuck were the parents and why was this kid playing in the street?"


:lol :tu I think Dr. Philipe just likes to argue with T_Park for the sake of arguing.

[Mixability]

*Headline*

"Six year old child playing in traffic hit and killed"

Manny expert #1:

"That poor child...this just proves that SUV's are inherently dangerous and should be banned"

Manny expert #2:

"THEY" should have had signs up warning drivers to watch for children playing in the street.

Manny expert #3:

"The car manufacturer is at fault...if they had installed air bags on the front bumper this tragic accident would have never happened."

Manny expert #4:

"The salesman that sold the car was at fault because he should have known that the driver had a propensity to run over children and he should never have sold him the car."

Cosmic Cowboy:

"Where the fuck were the parents and why was this kid playing in the street?"

:lmao

The parent's are NEVER guilty!

:lmao

[Extra Stout]

Lots of people are at fault here.

But if that Ferris wheel had had bars on it to prevent the child from jumping out, there would be no need to rely on the judgment of an untrained migrant laborer or an ignorant mother to save the child's life.

The proprietor of that ride bears responsibility to ensure that his product is reasonably safe. The ride lacked basic safety features widely found in the industry (the bars). These safety features would have been relatively simple to implement.

The owner of that wheel is grossly negligent.

The fair officials likewise are responsible for the equipment they allow on their fairgrounds. Knowledge about what safe rides look like is not exactly scarce, given how many of these damn things we have around the country. Hire an inspector. If people's rides are not safe, don't let them in.

The fair officials likewise are negligent.

In my industry, we would never leave it to an untrained laborer who doesn't even speak any English to be responsible for life-and-death decisions. If I did that, and something happened, not only would my company be held financially liable, but I myself probably would go to prison.

[jcrod]

Basically what that quote is telling me is that not only do ride operators need to enforce height requirements (which they should), now they have to psychoanalyze every child that approaches the ride to see if he or she is emotionally mature enough to ride it?

I know what my children are afraid of, what they like, don't like, how they react to things, etc...I wouldn't expect a total stranger to. And I wouldn't throw them into the deep end alone unless I knew they could swim, so to speak.

Mother's fault, as tragic as that is, by a mile.


You know why, because you're a good parent and have common sense. But what I've learned in my 31 yrs of life is a lot of people do not have common sense.

If the (stupid) Mom sees the child meets the height requirement (as does the operator) she (for some unforgivable reason) is lead to believe he is able to ride without someone. But common sense tells us NO the child is only 6 and might freak out at top. The operator should know this posibilty is there, since he OPERATES the damn thing everyday. The mom isnt there everyday, seeing reactions from other kids.

She is 99% at fault, but that 1% by the attendant could've saved a childs life. No one is saying the moms not at fault.

[Marklar MM]

It is like what one of my teachers always said. Paraphrasing.

"They should make everything idiot proof".

[Extra Stout]

You know why, because you're a good parent and have common sense. But what I've learned in my 31 yrs of life is a lot of people do not have common sense.

If the (stupid) Mom sees the child meets the height requirement (as does the operator) she (for some unforgivable reason) is lead to believe he is able to ride without someone. But common sense tells us NO the child is only 6 and might freak out at top. The operator should know this posibilty is there, since he OPERATES the damn thing everyday. The mom isnt there everyday, seeing reactions from other kids.

She is 99% at fault, but that 1% by the attendant could've saved a childs life. No one is saying the moms not at fault.
Here's how my engineering mind processes the hazard:

The severity of an accident is extremely high; i.e., death.
The probability of an accident is high; i.e., a child tall for his age freaks out and jumps.

Very high severity and high probability means that the Ferris wheel design is unacceptable. It is not sufficient to rely on the judgment of people, even if they were highly trained and very responsible.

The installation of the bars does not reduce the severity of jumping out of the car, but it does reduce the likelihood. The rider would have to open a locked door in order to jump out.

With very high severity and low likelihood, it becomes sufficient to rely upon human administration to manage the residual risk.

Other accident scenarios might then become more likely, such as the child becoming agitated and banging his head into something. But that is low-severity, albeit with a higher likelihood, and still could be managed with human administration.

This line of thinking is the standard for evaluating hazards.

So, while the operator and mother both bear blame for their poor judgment, the business owner is primarily liable for operating inherently unsafe equipment.

[MannyIsGod]

*Headline*

"Six year old child playing in traffic hit and killed"

Manny expert #1:

"That poor child...this just proves that SUV's are inherently dangerous and should be banned"

Manny expert #2:

"THEY" should have had signs up warning drivers to watch for children playing in the street.

Manny expert #3:

"The car manufacturer is at fault...if they had installed air bags on the front bumper this tragic accident would have never happened."

Manny expert #4:

"The salesman that sold the car was at fault because he should have known that the driver had a propensity to run over children and he should never have sold him the car."

Cosmic Cowboy:

"Where the fuck were the parents and why was this kid playing in the street?"Sure, if the ferris wheel was simply lying around waiting for someone to pick it up and use it or was a place where you didn't go to pay someone to provide you a service which includes safety.

Give me a break, the ferris wheel is a supervised business not the street.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol :tu I think Dr. Philipe just likes to argue with T_Park for the sake of arguing.Thats absolute bullshit. I'm frankly amazed that there is such a large group of people here who don't see a problem with putting a six year old child into a gondola with nothing to keep him in. NOTHING.

[MannyIsGod]

Theres a reason that the best analogies you guys can come up with are crap. You're comparing a kid playing in a street to a kid riding a ferris wheel. You all seem to be amazed that the business shares in the responsibility to make sure its patrons are safe which amazes me due to how common and prevelant a concept that is.

This won't even become a lawsuit like some of you suggested. I guarntee that business owner carries liability insurance - Why? Because he shares in the liability! - and the insurance company will be more than eager to settle out of court because this is pretty damn open and shut.

[1Parker1]

Thats absolute bullshit. I'm frankly amazed that there is such a large group of people here who don't see a problem with putting a six year old child into a gondola with nothing to keep him in. NOTHING.


Manny, if you read a little more carefully people like myself, CC, and SW are not negating that it was dangerous for the ride servicer to put him on it. However, the majority of the blame and liability rests solely on the mother of this child who A) could see for herself that there's a problem with putting YOUR OWN CHILD into a gondola with nothing to keep him in and B) Who is willing to let a 6 year old sit on a ferris wheel like that all by himself.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, if you read a little more carefully people like myself, CC, and SW are not negating that it was dangerous for the ride servicer to put him on it. However, the majority of the blame and liability rests solely on the mother of this child who A) could see for herself that there's a problem with putting YOUR OWN CHILD into a gondola with nothing to keep him in and B) Who is willing to let a 6 year old sit on a ferris wheel like that all by himself.And 1P1, if you would read what I've been saying there are several times in this thread where I acknowledge that the mother shares in the blame.

[1Parker1]

And 1P1, if you would read what I've been saying there are several times in this thread where I acknowledge that the mother shares in the blame.


Yes, but you think the share is even where as majority of us (well at least me) feel it's more 98% of the blame falls on her.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, if you guys want to belive that an arbitrary 2% of safety is the responsibility of an owner then I'm glad the legal system and almost every industry disagrees with you.

[MannyIsGod]

This is a pretty obvious situation for a parent to realize that their child would not be safe. However, if it was supposed to be so damn obvious to her, why didn't the ride operator know when he sits there and works on the damn thing everyday?

[Extra Stout]

Manny, if you read a little more carefully people like myself, CC, and SW are not negating that it was dangerous for the ride servicer to put him on it. However, the majority of the blame and liability rests solely on the mother of this child who A) could see for herself that there's a problem with putting YOUR OWN CHILD into a gondola with nothing to keep him in and B) Who is willing to let a 6 year old sit on a ferris wheel like that all by himself.
Well, the mother gets as punishment to bury her child.
Of course morally she is primarily to blame.
But the stupidity of the general public is a given and should be planned for.
Moral responsibility and legal responsibility are not the same.
Maybe 15-20% of mothers are stupid enough to do something like that.

So, in order to keep from having to hose the splattered brains of the children of stupid mothers off the pavement all the time, non-ignorant people have to take responsibility for safeguards and precautions. We do this in our society because we value human life.

[SpursWoman]

As a mother with a shred of common sense, I don't depend on carnival workers to monitor what my children do and what's safe for them or not. I consider that my job.

On the other hand, as a mother, if I were working at a carnival ride and a little 6 year old wanted on by himself I wouldn't let him, but it's easy for me to say that now, though, because it's nice and air conditioned in my office and I make substantially more than minimum wage. And I care about everyone's children.

[MannyIsGod]

I just think back to the pictures of the ferris wheel and think that there is nothing to keep the people in and then I look to the wheel at Fiesta Texas and wonder why they aren't all like that?

[SpursWoman]

The one at Fiesta Texas is really nice. :tu

[Extra Stout]

I just think back to the pictures of the ferris wheel and think that there is nothing to keep the people in and then I look to the wheel at Fiesta Texas and wonder why they aren't all like that?
Yeah, and it's not like welding on some galvanized steel is a million-dollar proposition.

But out in the sticks, there are a lot of yahoos who think all that safety stuff is for sissies. That is, until their child gets hurt.

[SpursWoman]

I just now saw what the other one looked like...and in no way, shape or form would I let my 6 year old go alone on that ride...I don't know if I'd let my 9 & 10 year olds go alone.

That one looks pretty dangerous. :wow

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, and it's not like welding on some galvanized steel is a million-dollar proposition.

But out in the sticks, there are a lot of yahoos who think all that safety stuff is for sissies. That is, until their child gets hurt.I'd imagine that whatever money you spent you might save on insurance premiums either way.

[CosmicCowboy]

And 1P1, if you would read what I've been saying there are several times in this thread where I acknowledge that the mother shares in the blame.

Yeah, and the ignorant bitch will get a big check from the insurance company to reward her stupidity. Just like winning the lottery. Whats wrong with this picture?

[Extra Stout]

Oh, I decided to take T Park off ignore to read his takes.

If the manufacturer sold that product with no more safety requirements than a height restriction, such that a person could jump or fall out, then I'm guessing a law firm soon will own that company.

[Mixability]

so if my son commits suicide, I can sue the gun maker for making the gun, the walmart for letting him buy it, and the condom company for making a faulty product that made me procreate in the first place?!?!?

Wow, parenting pays off, especially when you're a dumbass! :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

so if my son commits suicide, I can sue the gun maker for making the gun, the walmart for letting him buy it, and the condom company for making a faulty product that made me procreate in the first place?!?!?

Wow, parenting pays off, especially when you're a dumbass! :lmaoIf they sold the gun to a six year old? Then sure you could sue walmart.

More stupid analogies.

[Extra Stout]

so if my son commits suicide, I can sue the gun maker for making the gun, the walmart for letting him buy it, and the condom company for making a faulty product that made me procreate in the first place?!?!?

Wow, parenting pays off, especially when you're a dumbass! :lmao
No.

An intentional action is not comparable to an accident.

[Mixability]

If they sold the gun to a six year old? Then sure you could sue walmart.

More stupid analogies.

Cmon, buy a fucking sense of humor, geez.

[Extra Stout]

More stupid analogies.
There aren't many clear thinkers in this country.

I was going to say, "in this world," but that's not true. I've been in places where a good 30% of the people think more clearly than I do.

[SpursWoman]

If they sold the gun to a six year old? Then sure you could sue walmart.

More stupid analogies.


What would a 6 year old be doing in a position to be alone at Walmart buying a gun? Where are his parents? :lol

[Extra Stout]

Cmon, buy a fucking sense of humor, geez.
Translation: "Damn, I'm getting pwnt... need to backtrack and claim I was joking."

[Mixability]

Translation: "Damn, I'm getting pwnt... need to backtrack and claim I was joking."

oh yeah thats it! :rolleyes

[jcrod]

Ya'll people act like she's getting rewarded. She lost her child, that to me is the Hardest thing to live through.

[Mixability]

Ya'll people act like she's getting rewarded. She lost her child, that to me is the Hardest thing to live through.

:tu

Just hopefully she doesn't try to pin this on the business to get paid for being a dumbass.

[Extra Stout]

Ya'll people act like she's getting rewarded. She lost her child, that to me is the Hardest thing to live through.
She really doesn't deserve the big check. If I were dictator, the manufacturer, operator, and fair would all pay enormous fines that go to some children's charity.

[Melmart1]

First, I don't get the people trying to be cute or funny or 'own' someone in this thread. A child died a horrific death and dozens of people had to watch while it happened. This is not funny or humorous in the least.

Though I agree our society as a whole is far too litigous and the mother should not be rewarded for being a retard, this lawsuit NEEDS to happen. Why? Because that is the only way shit will get done. There are laws all the time enforcing safety requirements that are common sense everyday- like seat belts for instance. How is this different? You know those ridiculous tags on your radio or hairdryer that say 'do not immerse in water'. DUH! Any idiot knows not to sumberge electronics in liquid- or do they? If EVERYONE knew that, then why the tags? Because somebody doesn't know.. or possibly many somebodys.

The people here who put only 1 or 2% of the blame on the operator are making this claim based on the assumption that sense is common. But it isn't. Individuals are smart, people are stupid. This lawsuit needs to happen to protect those who can't protect themselves because they are stupid. Or in this case, the innocent victims of stupidity. No, we can't regulate everything, nothing will ever be 100% safe. But this is a glaringly obvious case of a company playing the odds in order to save some money- and it backfired. Which would normally be no big deal, except a 6 yr old died as a result.

[MannyIsGod]

When I become ruler of the world, ES will be my right hand man.

[Extra Stout]

When I become ruler of the world, ES will be my right hand man.
Sorry, I will not accept a subservient role.

Ich will König sein.

[Mixability]

You know those ridiculous tags on your radio or hairdryer that say 'do not immerse in water'. DUH! Any idiot knows not to sumberge electronics in liquid- or do they? If EVERYONE knew that, then why the tags? Because somebody doesn't know.. or possibly many somebodys.


I thought those tags are so morons can't sue companies for their stupidity. I'm sure the Ferris wheel had signs that read, "Please stay steated, keep hands in the gondola at all times, etc." But the kid was 6 and probably didn't know how to read, so the Mom should have accompanied him.

In my case for example, just because the new Power Wheels I bought my son says 1 year and up, doesn't mean I should trust the manufacturers instructions and think that my son is completely safe in it. If the battery blew up, then fine, I'd sue the company. But if my son stood up in the seat and fell and cracked his head open, it's my fault for leaving him unsupervised.

It's MY responsibility to be a parent, not companies or operator of Ferris Wheels. Maybe if the 6 year old got on without his Mom's permission, then I'd see why the operator would be to blame, since the Mom had no opportunity to accompany her son.

[MannyIsGod]

I thought those tags are so morons can't sue companies for their stupidity. I'm sure the Ferris wheel had signs that read, "Please stay steated, keep hands in the gondola at all times, etc." But the kid was 6 and probably didn't know how to read, so the Mom should have accompanied him.

In my case for example, just because the new Power Wheels I bought my son says 1 year and up, doesn't mean I should trust the manufacturers instructions and think that my son is completely safe in it. If the battery blew up, then fine, I'd sue the company. But if my son stood up in the seat and fell and cracked his head open, it's my fault for leaving him unsupervised.

It's MY responsibility to be a parent, not companies or operator of Ferris Wheels. Maybe if the 6 year old got on without his Mom's permission, then I'd see why the operator would be to blame, since the Mom had no opportunity to accompany her son.Here is the difference you completely have failed to grasp. You keep bringing up situations where the parent makes a purchase but is then the main party which supervises.

The Power Wheels you mentioned I'm sure have something in the instructions about parent supervision. The purchasing party is intended to be in charge of the equipment.

When you talk about the Ferris Wheel, the mother is NOT in charge of the equipment, operation or supervision. It is NOT the parents responsibility to make sure the situation is safe, but the ride owner and operators. Yes, the mother should have known that her six year old alone in that machine was unsafe, but so should the operator. And ultimately because the operator is in charge, it falls on them.

Legally, the operator is responsible for the ride and to make sure there are no unsafe situations that occour. There is no doubt in my mind that I woudl never let my six year old board anything like that without me there. Actually, I question whether I'd even let them board wth me on there. It looks unsafe as all fucking hell. But the final responsibility in this case will fall on the owners and operators because they are the ones in charge of that ride, not the parents.

[turambar85]

I usually agree with Manny...but not here. You claim that there are other things that aren't covered by the hight regulations, such as emotional maturity. Well, the only rule is height, the guy did his job, and as for emotional security...who will know better? The stupid ass mom, or the ride operator who has never met the kid, and sees 1000's go through his line every day. He does NOT have time to do an emotional I.Q test.

The blame it solely on the mother in this scenario. Sure, maybe things would be better if we had better laws regulating rides, but we don't so all talk in that regard is irrelevant. The autobahn has no speed limits, so would a cop be justified in arresting somebody who is driving 120 mph? Sure, anybody with any sanity can tell you that that speed is unsafe, but there are no regulations prohibiting that action. So no harm, no foul.

You can't expect a ride operator to do anything other than the job he/she is given. Don't take responsibility from who deserves it, the dumbass who knew the kid the best. His "mother".

[Extra Stout]

In my case for example, just because the new Power Wheels I bought my son says 1 year and up, doesn't mean I should trust the manufacturers instructions and think that my son is completely safe in it. If the battery blew up, then fine, I'd sue the company. But if my son stood up in the seat and fell and cracked his head open, it's my fault for leaving him unsupervised.

It's MY responsibility to be a parent, not companies or operator of Ferris Wheels. Maybe if the 6 year old got on without his Mom's permission, then I'd see why the operator would be to blame, since the Mom had no opportunity to accompany her son.
Because falling and getting a boo-boo is the same as dying.

[Mixability]

Here is the difference you completely have failed to grasp. You keep bringing up situations where the parent makes a purchase but is then the main party which supervises.

The Power Wheels you mentioned I'm sure have something in the instructions about parent supervision. The purchasing party is intended to be in charge of the equipment.

When you talk about the Ferris Wheel, the mother is NOT in charge of the equipment, operation or supervision. It is NOT the parents responsibility to make sure the situation is safe, but the ride owner and operators. Yes, the mother should have known that her six year old alone in that machine was unsafe, but so should the operator. And ultimately because the operator is in charge, it falls on them.

Legally, the operator is responsible for the ride and to make sure there are no unsafe situations that occour. There is no doubt in my mind that I woudl never let my six year old board anything like that without me there. Actually, I question whether I'd even let them board wth me on there. It looks unsafe as all fucking hell. But the final responsibility in this case will fall on the owners and operators because they are the ones in charge of that ride, not the parents.

So when the kid boarded the ride, the mother was lifted of all parental responsibility? I'm just trying to completely understand you. What percentage of fault do you give the parent in this situation?

[Mixability]

Because falling and getting a boo-boo is the same as dying.

Cracked his head open = boo boo?

[Melmart1]

I thought those tags are so morons can't sue companies for their stupidity. I'm sure the Ferris wheel had signs that read, "Please stay steated, keep hands in the gondola at all times, etc."


Are you SURE about that? Did you see these signs? See, cus signs like that would make sense. So would putting bars on the entrance to the gondola. But they didn't have the later, so what makes you think they would have the former?



doesn't mean I should trust the manufacturers instructions and think that my son is completely safe in it.

I think you just proved my point. The mother NOR the worker should trust manufacturer's instructions because they are GUIDELINES. Common sense should kick in on BOTH their parts.


It's MY responsibility to be a parent, not companies or operator of Ferris Wheels.

Since when does being a parent mean being responsible? So because a kid's parents are idiots, then no measures should be taken to protect them? They deserve to be scraped up off a parking lot pavement somewhere because their parents did not fulfill their moral obligation to be good parents? When the law can easily step in and make some VERY SIMPLE, VERY INEXPENSIVE safety requirements?

[Mixability]

Are you SURE about that? Did you see these signs? See, cus signs like that would make sense. So would putting bars on the entrance to the gondola. But they didn't have the later, so what makes you think they would have the former?

ok, i guess SURE was a bad word to use, i meant I'd HOPE they had those signs.

[Extra Stout]

I usually agree with Manny...but not here. You claim that there are other things that aren't covered by the hight regulations, such as emotional maturity. Well, the only rule is height, the guy did his job, and as for emotional security...who will know better? The stupid ass mom, or the ride operator who has never met the kid, and sees 1000's go through his line every day. He does NOT have time to do an emotional I.Q test.

The blame it solely on the mother in this scenario. Sure, maybe things would be better if we had better laws regulating rides, but we don't so all talk in that regard is irrelevant. The autobahn has no speed limits, so would a cop be justified in arresting somebody who is driving 120 mph? Sure, anybody with any sanity can tell you that that speed is unsafe, but there are no regulations prohibiting that action. So no harm, no foul.

You can't expect a ride operator to do anything other than the job he/she is given. Don't take responsibility from who deserves it, the dumbass who knew the kid the best. His "mother".
I sense a disconnect here... the unskilled laborer "ride operator" I agree bears minimal responsibility. He does not have the latitude to make decisions about who can and cannot ride the ride, other than the concrete rules about height.

However, the "ride operator" as in the business that operates the ride has responsibility to provide a reasonable level of safety for its customers. According to their own rules, it was OK for a six-year-old to ride unattended on a ride that had no safeguards to prevent falling over the side 90 feet to a horrible death.

It is not onerous to have belts that a six-year-old cannot easily unlatch. It is not onerous have bars along the side of the gondola to prevent falling out. These would be reasonable safety measures, and both the manufacturer and the ride operator (as in the business) were negligible not to have them.

It's not unreasonable to say that even if the mother had been on the ride, the child quickly could have unlatched his belt, and bolted off the side of the gondola before she could react.

[SpursWoman]

If litigation has to be involved because stupid people procreated, I think ES's suggestion is awesome...I couldn't stomach seeing this woman rewarded financially, because you know the damages will be substantial, for the consequences of what I strongly feel is her gross negligence.

[Mixability]

Since when does being a parent mean being responsible? So because a kid's parents are idiots, then no measures should be taken to protect them? They deserve to be scraped up off a parking lot pavement somewhere because their parents did not fulfill their moral obligation to be good parents? When the law can easily step in and make some VERY SIMPLE, VERY INEXPENSIVE safety requirements?

I guess I just hope that there'd be less moronic parents out there, then there'd still be that 6 year old with a whole life ahead of him. I see how the operator could've intervened, but I'm sure he's one of those employees who was just "doing his job". If I was the operator and the only guidelines in place were height dependent, then I'd find another job. I see kids over the age of 15 at Fiesta Texas who I wouldn't trust on a Ferris wheel, much less a fucking 6 year old!

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know what percentage of blame I'd apply to who. I nkow that the motehr shares in the blame, and I know that the owner operator shares in the blame.

But I am saying that legally, the owner operator is the only one to blame because they are the ones with the liability here.

[MannyIsGod]

I said in this thread prior to my posts on this page that there obviously needs to be better standards in place than just height. Tpark went off on how that was ridiculous.

[Extra Stout]

Cracked his head open = boo boo?
Does this Power Wheels go so fast that it is going to shatter your child's skull if he falls out of it?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm telling you, even with me on the damn thing I don't let my six year old child ride that thing. Its a fall waiting to happen.

[Mixability]

It is not onerous to have belts that a six-year-old cannot easily unlatch. It is not onerous have bars along the side of the gondola to prevent falling out. These would be reasonable safety measures, and both the manufacturer and the ride operator (as in the business) were negligible not to have them.

That I totally agree with. If I was the parent and saw that there wasn't any safety devices (belts/locks/bars) then I would've yanked my child off that ride in an instant, thats if I let them ride alone in the first place.

[turambar85]

The ride passed safety regulations. The operator acted within the parameters of his employment guidelines. A parent of a 6 year old with a low emotional I.Q should check what rides she lets her baby ride. And this kid was a baby.

I could not fathom not knowing what the ride was like and letting my 6 year old ride. Sure, maybe some safety regulations are lax...but that it NOT the operators nor the companies fault. The lax safety is in the hands of the people who make those laws, not those who enforce them.

There is no way this is not 100% the mothers fault, at least if we're talking about people who were actively at the scene. If not, I'd say 85% mothers fault, 15% safety regulators fault.

There are plenty of things in life that are dangerous is not done right, but that are safe enough to be entrusted to the public, and this is one of those. If a half-way decent mother were with him, he would never have been allowed on that ride, regardless of his tall he is for his age.


Parents have a responsibility to their children.
Operators have a responsibility to follow rules.
Owners have a responsibility to enfore rules with operators.
Safety regulators have a responsibility to make sure that rides are safe enough for a reasonable person to be 100% safe while on the ride.

If this ride, which looks rather old, has never killed another human being than they are doing their job, at least to a degree. If the owner enforced the rules, then he did his job. If the operator followed the rules, than he did his job. If the parent protected her child from things which she knew would not be safe for him, knowing his emotional level, then she did her job....

Well, she didn't.

[Extra Stout]

I said in this thread prior to my posts on this page that there obviously needs to be better standards in place than just height. Tpark went off on how that was ridiculous.
Objective proof of other requirements is very difficult, unless parents are going to be required to have signed affidavits of their children's ages and levels of emotional maturity before the children can board amusement park rides.

[Mixability]

I said in this thread prior to my posts on this page that there obviously needs to be better standards in place than just height. Tpark went off on how that was ridiculous.

Don't most places have an "under 12 must be accompanied by adult"? I wonder if by only having a height requirement they were seeing more business?

[Mixability]

Does this Power Wheels go so fast that it is going to shatter your child's skull if he falls out of it?

If you knew my boy....... :lol

Even when the thing has a dead battery, he's been known to try and stand on the hood and with his newly acquired higher center of gravity, it'd be a pretty big fall.

[Mixability]

I'm telling you, even with me on the damn thing I don't let my six year old child ride that thing. Its a fall waiting to happen.

I can't wait for my boy to be 6...... :lol

:tu, you can never have enough hands to keep a child in place for a long time.......

[Melmart1]

I guess I just hope that there'd be less moronic parents out there, then there'd still be that 6 year old with a whole life ahead of him. I see how the operator could've intervened, but I'm sure he's one of those employees who was just "doing his job". If I was the operator and the only guidelines in place were height dependent, then I'd find another job. I see kids over the age of 15 at Fiesta Texas who I wouldn't trust on a Ferris wheel, much less a fucking 6 year old!

You and I don't disagree here. I would wish more parents were not morons. But the sad fact is that this is simply not the case. A lot of parents are morons and so thier innocent spawn need to be protected.

I would bet cash money that half the owners of these machines would not put thier own kid on these rides, even if they met the 'safety requirement' of height. By those standards, Manute Bol could have ridden this ride alone at the age of two. No matter what the manufacturer says, ride operators can and should have thier own standards. Hopefully now, they will be forced by law to do so.

[Mixability]

No matter what the manufacturer says, ride operators can and should have thier own standards. Hopefully now, they will be forced by law to do so.

Shouldn't there be a clear cut standard as to the requirements for each ride? I'd rather not let individual operators decide what and what isn't safe. Let the law dictate strict requirements (height/age/supervision) and maybe we'd save a few lives.

[Melmart1]

Shouldn't there be a clear cut standard as to the requirements for each ride? I'd rather not let individual operators decide what and what isn't safe. Let the law dictate strict requirements (height/age/supervision) and maybe we'd save a few lives.

Obviously, there needs to be some very black and white standards. If T-Park is indicative of other owners in the industry, they are satisfied to just meet GUIDELINES rather than take the extra step of additional safety reqiurements (and possibly saving lives) for fear of being called a dick.

[jcrod]

If litigation has to be involved because stupid people procreated, I think ES's suggestion is awesome...I couldn't stomach seeing this woman rewarded financially, because you know the damages will be substantial, for the consequences of what I strongly feel is her gross negligence.


Why couldn't you stomach it?? Its not your child that was lost or your ride you own. You think she's happy right now thinking of all the money she'll get?? I could care less about money if I was in her situtation, i would just want my kid back.

Like I said, not everyone has common sense. Its easy to tear her apart.

Does anybody have any qoutes from her?????

[Mixability]

Obviously, there needs to be some very black and white standards. If T-Park is indicative of other owners in the industry, they are satisfied to just meet GUIDELINES rather than take the extra step of additional safety reqiurements (and possibly saving lives) for fear of being called a dick.

:tu

I was at a go-cart amusement place and this moron insisted that the operators allow his 7 year old to ride on his own. He even threw money around by saying that he was planning on paying for an hours worth of driving for him. FYI, the requirements were that anyone under the age of 16 had to be accompanied by an adult, if over the age requirement, then a drivers license was required to operate the go cart alone. The two seater go cart was $1 more.

It was a high powered go cart, so I can see why they had those requirements. He made a big fuss, they still refused, everyone looked at him like he was a moron. He was a moron, he wanted to spend all this money for his kid to ride, but didn't want shell up the extra $1 to ride with him. :shootme

[jcrod]

Wow, ok I just saw a video of the Mom talking. She is trully stupid, clueless. She does not give herself any blame.

She says they should have better restraints and guidlines/saftey precautions. She said he wanted to get on and they told the attendant to put him on with other people, but the attendant put him in by himself. He was fine after going around two times, but freaked when it stopped on top and tried to get out.

Its hard to feel sorry for her, when she doesn't seem to feel at fault.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Does anybody have any quotes from her?????

In the newsclip from the website she explains that she didn't want the kid to go up alone but the operator said there wasn't any room the other baskets. While some might see that as the operator being unsafe it really makes me mad with the mother. Because something (maternal instinct, common sense, or whatever you want to call it) was setting off a warning bell in her head that it was not safe for the kid to be in there alone. I don't know her situation as to why she didn't just get in there with the kid, but the bottom line is that at some level she KNEW this was not a good idea but let the kid ride anyways.

That's not to say that she is solely to blame, but I put the brunt of it on her. I say have the company pay for the funeral, and not a cent more.

[SpursWoman]

Why couldn't you stomach it??


Because I think she was grossly negligent. (!!)

[Mixability]

Wow, ok I just saw a video of the Mom talking. She is trully stupid, clueless. She does not give herself any blame.

She says they should have better restraints and guidlines/saftey precautions. She said he wanted to get on and they told the attendant to put him on with other people, but the attendant put him in by himself. He was fine after going around two times, but freaked when it stopped on top and tried to get out.

Its hard to feel sorry for her, when she doesn't seem to feel at fault.

So she requested the child be put in with other people and when that didn't happen, she said, "ah well". What a fucking moron. What happens if the kid WAS put in with other people and the kid still jumped, would she be suing the people who didn't restrain her kid? I still am dying to know what her excuse for not going on the ride with her child?

[atxrocker]

per cnn, a 12 year old boy died on a mgm studios ride called the "rock n roller" ride today. just sad. no details on exactly what happened but after the ride ended he was not responsive. they performed cpr on the spot with no success. there needs to be some serious changes made.

[jman3000]

sometimes people just have conditions that they don't know about or that trigger at the wrong times and it costs them their lives. he coulda been obese and had heart trouble for all we know. i say don't judge until you hear the details.

[T Park]

Sounds like he may have had a condition of some sort.

That particular rollercoaster is not overly stressfull.


Its a shame, if the family didnt know his condition, its even more heartbreaking.

[sa_butta]

per cnn, a 12 year old boy died on a mgm studios ride called the "rock n roller" ride today. just sad. no details on exactly what happened but after the ride ended he was not responsive. they performed cpr on the spot with no success. there needs to be some serious changes made.http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/06/29/coaster.death/story.1500.coaster.wkmg.jpg
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A 12-year-old boy was pronounced dead after he rode a roller coaster at Disney-MGM Studios in Orlando, Florida, on Thursday, according to the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

The boy was unresponsive when he was found in his seat at the end of the Rock 'N' Roller Coaster ride, said Terry McElroy of the Florida Department of Agriculture, which regulates the industry.

The boy, who was riding the coaster with his father, was given CPR and taken to the hospital, where he was pronounced dead. (Watch the details of what happened after the roller coaster stopped -- 2:39 (http://javascript<b></b>:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2006/06/29/candiotti.roller.coaster.death.cnn','2006/07/06');))

A Disney representative was with the family Thursday afternoon and Disney officials were offering the boy's family "deepest sympathies."

The incident happened at 11:30 a.m.

Disney shut down the ride and a state inspector arrived to observe the Disney investigation. The Orange County Sheriff's Office is conducting an investigation as well.

Disney boasts of the ride on its Web site, "Zoom from 0 to 60 mph with the force of a supersonic F-14, take in high-speed loops and turns synchronized to a specially recorded Aerosmith soundtrack and zip through Tinseltown in the biggest, loudest limo you've ever seen."

It adds: "The 3,400-foot-long track is more than a half mile of sudden accelerations, dips, loops and twists and turns."

Children shorter than 4 feet are not permitted on the ride, according to the Web site.

One month ago, another child died on the Disney ride "Mission Space" at the Epcot Center.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/29/coaster.death/index.html

[jman3000]

Shit... he was with his dad ... that's pretty horrible.

[sa_butta]

Autopsy: Boy at Disney had heart defect

By TRAVIS REED, Associated Press Writer 43 minutes ago



The 12-year-old boy who died after riding a Walt Disney World roller coaster had a congenital heart defect, a medical examiner ruled Friday.

The autopsy of Michael Russell was done one day after he passed out while riding Disney-MGM's Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. His father, an Iraq war veteran, performed CPR on the boy, but Michael was pronounced dead at a hospital.

"No evidence of injury was found but congenital heart abnormalities were detected, which will be further evaluated," the Orange County medical examiner's office said in a statement.

The cause of death was left pending until additional test are conducted, Dr. Sara H. Irrgang, an associate medical examiner, ruled.

Disney World reopened the coaster Friday after determining that nothing mechanical caused the boy's death. A Disney Web site description of the ride says: "Zoom from 0-60 mph with the force of a supersonic F-14, take in high-speed loops and turns synchronized to a specially recorded Aerosmith soundtrack."

"Walt Disney World engineers and ride system experts completed a thorough inspection of the attraction overnight and found it to be operating properly," the company said in a statement. "A representative from the state Bureau of Fair Rides Inspection observed the ride inspection and testing."

Disney and other large amusement parks are exempt from state oversight, but Disney has allowed government inspectors to watch after fatalities.

The boy's father, Byron Russell, noticed that Michael became limp while they rode the coaster along with his mother and 7-year-old brother. When the minute-long ride finished, Russell pulled Michael off and performed CPR until paramedics arrived, said Barbara Miller, Orange County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman.

Miller said Russell told officials that the boy was healthy and that the family didn't know of any underlying medical problems.

The company and military said they were assisting the family.

The father is a part of the 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) based at Fort Campbell, Ky., and served in Iraq, said special forces Command spokesman Maj. Jim Gregory.

"You can't even put words to how devastating this would be," Gregory said.

Michael's death was the latest in a string of tragedies at Walt Disney World in recent years. At least 15 people have died at Disney's theme parks in Florida and California since 1989, including some with pre-existing health conditions. Disney-MGM is among Disney's four Florida parks.

Most of the company's recent troubles have been over another ride — Epcot's "Mission: Space," a rocketship attraction that simulates a flight to Mars.

Two people have died in the last year after going on the ride, which spins in a centrifuge that subjects riders to twice the normal force of gravity. Now Disney offers people an option to ride a tamer version of the ride that does not spin.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060630/ap_on_re_us/disney_death

[T Park]

two different reports.

One is he walked from the ride and collapsed.

The other is he was unconcious when they came up to his car.

Don't know wich is correct.