Bid to increase minimum wage nixed

[thepeopleslawyer]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.

The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.

"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.

Republican critics said the minimum wage was a job killer, not the boon to low-wage workers portrayed by Democrats.

"This is a classic debate between two different philosophies. One philosophy believes in the marketplace, competition and entrepreneurship, and the second is a philosophy that says government knows best," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia. He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment.

But Kennedy and other advocates of an increase said minimum wage workers have been without a raise since 1997.

Underscoring the political context of the debate, he said if Democrats win the Senate this November, a minimum wage increase will be one of the first pieces of legislation to be considered.

Copyright 2006 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/21/minimum.wage.reut/index.html

[boutons_]

"He said France and Germany have high minimum wages but also high unemployment."

dumbfuck rabble-rouser. The much bigger impediments to reducing unemployment in those two countries are 1) the immobility of labor (VERY expensive to move to new city for a job, esp when you're on the low-end of the scale. buy/sell house/mortages is fatally loaded with lawyers/fees/taxes) and 2) rigid labor laws that make it very difficult to fire people.

The job protection laws and high overheads imposed by national governments on employers result in the last thing an employer wants to do is create a job. (Employer overhead in France is up to 60% of an employee's salary.) Which is exactly the same thing in the USA, but for different reasons (pension, health insurance costs), where corp CEOs are seen as heros for laying off 10s of 1000s of employees, continuing the decades long trend of hollowing out the middle class and middle-class type jobs in favor of no jobs or lower-paying jobs.

Germany is also still dealing with large numbers of East German unemployed/unemployables after unification.

SMIC (minimum wage in France) in 2005 was Eu 8.03 = $10.16/hour. France has a huge problem with youth unemployment due to schools not producing kids who are employable, sufficiently educated. France envies the German system where highschool/junior college kids are in work/study apprenctice programs.

The simlistic dumbfuck Congressman saying that higher minimum wages in the France and Germany causes 10% unemployment is just rabble-rousing lies. The causes of unemployment are much more complex.

====================

Here's an anoymous, somewhat confused email which I have no idea if the facts are true, but "feels" consistent with what is happening the USA:

"I think the vast differences in compensation between victims of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving our country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either, because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11. Well, I can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and they and their families know the dangers.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11 families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.

You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low-rent housing. Make sense?

However, our own U.S. Congress voted themselves a raise. Many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month. And most are now equal to being millionaires plus. They do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.
If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a pension of $15,000 per month."

[scott]

The inverse relationship between minimum wages and employment is empirically backed and is pretty solid... but since boutons used a bunch of curse words, I guess that makes him right.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa106.html

[Nbadan]

Empiral evidence or not, a relationship can also be established between higher minimum wages and increased economic activity. It's not rocket science, people have more to spend and spend it.

[scott]

Empiral evidence or not, a relationship can also be established between higher minimum wages and increased economic activity. It's not rocket science, people have more to spend and spend it.

Link? Didn't think so.

[fyatuk]

Empiral evidence or not, a relationship can also be established between higher minimum wages and increased economic activity. It's not rocket science, people have more to spend and spend it.

Depends on what you consider that to be. Minimum wage increases costs across the board. Those who make below the new minimum wage will have slightly more free money to spend, while those who have a tight budget and are over minimum wage will have to tighten the strings further.

Considering how few workers actually are federal minimum wage earners, and the areas they live in for the most part have really low costs of living, it doesn't really seem worth the effort. Probably as many union workers who already make a good living will get a raise out of it as poor people who actually make it.

The market is already well on its way to making the minimum wage obselete. Let it take its own pace.

[xrayzebra]

Tell you what. Let's start a movement. Lets set the minimum wage at
20 bucks an hour. That way it will move everyone into the lower to middle
class and then let's put a little kicker in there for COLA so everytime COLA
goes up so does minimum wage. Problems are all solved. No more poverty,
everyone lives in a nice house and drives a nice car. Oh, you say that is
being unrealistic. Why. Most people earning minimum wage are single, just
starting out and young. They don't stay at minimum wage very long. Those
that do, more than likely have got the ability or drive to want to go up in
the jobs.

[101A]

The simlistic dumbfuck Congressman saying that higher minimum wages in the France and Germany causes 10% unemployment is just rabble-rousing lies. The causes of unemployment are much more complex.


You are absolutely right.

It's not just the minimum wage, those socialist governments have enacted a plethora of burdensome regulations and mandates that promote rampant unemployment. Glad you're seeing the light, Boutons.

[boutons_]

There's no unseen light to be seen. And fuck you, too. :)

[RandomGuy]

Link? Didn't think so.

A 1998 EPI study failed to find any systematic, significant job loss associated with the 1996-97 minimum wage increase. In fact, following the most recent increase in the minimum wage in 1996-97, the low-wage labor market performed better than it had in decades (e.g., lower unemployment rates, increased average hourly wages, increased family income, decreased poverty rates). Studies of the 1990-91 federal minimum wage increase, as well as to studies by David Card and Alan Krueger of several state minimum wage increases, also found no measurable negative impact on employment. Finally, a recent Fiscal Policy Institute (FPI) study of state minimum wages found no evidence of negative employment effects on small businesses.

Link to full FAQ (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwagefaq)

You will find at the bottom of that URL a series of links to articles similar to this one.
Oregon's Increasing Minimum Wage Brings Raises to Former Welfare Recipients and Other Low-Wage Workers Without Job Losses (http://www.ocpp.org/1999/es990602.htm)

[RandomGuy]

If corporations can pay HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars to CEOs who couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag, doesn't that put a drag on job creation too?

Yet another recently developing scandal involves back dating of the formerly-off-the-books raping of investors equity by those same CEOs.

It works like this:

CEO gets a stock option. This option allows him to buy stock directly from the company in the future at a price of today. If the stock is today worth $10, and in the future when the option is used the stock is $20, then the CEO has made $10 on that stock.

The assumption is that it provides motivation for the CEO to make the company do well.

Now let's say that instead of picking a certain date and going from there, you can "back-date" an option and pick the day of they year with the LOWEST stock value for that year. POOF!! Instant profits. It's also illegal.

This basically steals money from the other stockholders as it dilutes the hell out of their own shares.

People say that the minimum wage would hinder job creation. There is evidence that directly contradicts this.

To those who would oppose a minimum wage increase, answer this:

How many $50,000-a-year jobs could the pay of the fortune 500 CEOs pay for?

All that money concentrated in the hands of the new robber baron class is directly stealing from both the employees and stockholders, as that money is unavailable for either new jobs, or dividends.

The recent $300M severance package of a particular CEO could effectively employ 150 people for 20 years. That was just ONE severance package for ONE CEO.

[fyatuk]

To those who would oppose a minimum wage increase, answer this:

How many $50,000-a-year jobs could the pay of the fortune 500 CEOs pay for?

All that money concentrated in the hands of the new robber baron class is directly stealing from both the employees and stockholders, as that money is unavailable for either new jobs, or dividends.

The recent $300M severance package of a particular CEO could effectively employ 150 people for 20 years. That was just ONE severance package for ONE CEO.

None of those have any bearing on why I oppose minimum wage increases. Certainly the job market would be better off without paying CEO's 2-3 times the total payroll of all other employees and stupid, idiotic, policies like that. Of course it would be better if they didn't get such outlandish severence packages.

That doesn't affect my hatred of minimum wage increases at all. It's a completely separate issue.

I was at minimum wage for one increase. After the prices of everything re-centered based on the new wages, I had close to exactly the same amount of spending money as I did before.

I was just over the new minimum wage for the next increase, and after 6 or 7 months, I had LESS spending money than I did before.

It's the way capitalism works. The businesses are not going to absorb the cost of the increased payroll when its mandated (they often will if they voluntarily raise their payroll). It gets passed onto the consumer, and ends up lessening the value of the dollar.

The people who get the MOST benefit from minimum wage increases are union workers who don't really need an increase in wage. Not saying it isn't deserved, just that it isn't necessary for them.

[DarkReign]

The people who get the MOST benefit from minimum wage increases are union workers who don't really need an increase in wage. Not saying it isn't deserved, just that it isn't necessary for them.

Well I will say it for you.

Big Fuck You to all Union schmucks. You ruined the auto industry, congrats.

[xrayzebra]

Why does it bother some that CEO's take home some big bucks? It makes no
sense. People get hired all the time for big bucks. Hey, hellllllooooooo. How about
the sports world. And they do nothing but play a sport, and sometimes not that
well. How come I don't hear gripes about that. Wonder how many times more than
the guy running the mop under the bucket in basketball. Get real folks. Life is
not fair. And that is a fact!

[pussyface]

....more great analysis by xray.

you should be hired as a pundit/political correspondent.

you are supremely articulate.

[xrayzebra]

....more great analysis by xray.

you should be hired as a pundit/political correspondent.

you are supremely articulate.

Yeah, you making a job offer. I doubt it. You couldn't afford me. I want
the golden parachute.

[Dimm-O-Crap]

Why does it bother some that CEO's take home some big bucks? It makes no
sense. People get hired all the time for big bucks. Hey, hellllllooooooo. How about
the sports world. And they do nothing but play a sport, and sometimes not that
well. How come I don't hear gripes about that. Wonder how many times more than
the guy running the mop under the bucket in basketball. Get real folks. Life is
not fair. And that is a fact!

How would you like it if a package of Depends went up 10 bucks?

[xrayzebra]

How would you like it if a package of Depends went up 10 bucks?

Wouldn't bother me, would it bother you. Leaky Leahy might get upset.
You know one of your most prominent dimm-o-crapic members.

[Dimm-O-Crap]

Raise minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour.

[xrayzebra]

Raise minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour.

I up your bid to 20 bucks an hour.

[Dimm-O-Crap]

I up your bid to 20 bucks an hour.

I'd try to work with you and vote together on this, but then you'd stab me in the back in the end.

[xrayzebra]

I'd try to work with you and vote together on this, but then you'd stab me in the back in the end.

But you should be used to that. You do it to each other all the time.
Hey, it's only politicis. Don't be upset. Smile, here comes the media.

[Clandestino]

it would hurt small businesses most... if you have no skills you should be making 10 an hr

[jochhejaam]

it would hurt small businesses most... if you have no skills you should be making 10 an hr

The city of Detroit just graduated 21.7% of it's high school seniors. Skilled workers are on the way.

[Clandestino]

sorry, typo... SHOULD NOT

[Spurminator]

The cost of comfortable living is more than a $5.15 job can support. I don't know if a higher minimum wage is the answer, but something has to give.... Perhaps the answer is increased overtime pay. While the argument against minimum wage is that positions may be eliminated, if companies are forced to pay (for example) 3x the hourly wage for Overtime, they would have to hire the appropriate number of positions to get the job done in 40 hrs per week. Plus you reward the people who work their asses off 50-60 hours a week.

Maybe I'm way off base with that... As Libertarian as I try to be economically, I definitely feel that the separation of wealth in this country has gotten ridiculous. I'd prefer not to rely on the Government to solve the problem, but it may be the lesser of two evils.

[Trainwreck2100]

Look if they increased the Minimum wage big business would just ship more indians (from India) an use them till the invention of Robots.

[Extra Stout]

Well I will say it for you.

Big Fuck You to all Union schmucks. You ruined the auto industry, congrats.
They didn't ruin it by themselves. They helped, though.

[Extra Stout]

Why does it bother some that CEO's take home some big bucks? It makes no
sense. People get hired all the time for big bucks. Hey, hellllllooooooo. How about
the sports world. And they do nothing but play a sport, and sometimes not that
well. How come I don't hear gripes about that. Wonder how many times more than
the guy running the mop under the bucket in basketball. Get real folks. Life is
not fair. And that is a fact!
Life isn't fair in Third World countries, either. That doesn't mean we should adopt their economic model.