Next moves

[SPARKY]

Sign Javtokas. This seems to be a given. Javtokas could make this offseason a major success.

After that, it's fairly wide open. I would suspect that the Spurs will revisit the Barry for JR Smith deal that almost was completed last February. If that's not available, perhaps a S&T of Jumaine Jones for Brent Barry might be in the cards.

Overall, I believe the Spurs need to upgrade their rebounding, add a little size at the 3 behind Bowen, and another penetrator, perhaps as the backup point. Looking at the free agent list, Jumaine Jones, Reggie Evans, and Speedy Claxton come to mind.

The Spurs will need some trades to be able to address all of these concerns. I think Mohammed and Barry are the most expendable and perhaps the most attractive. Scola's rights are also a possible chip.

Bonner was a nice pickup, gravy really, after getting rid of Radoslav's contract. Williams has already contributed his greatest effort as a Spur. I think Bonner's about the best to hope for in regards to finding a 'small ball' power forward.

I don't expect much on draft day. Maybe they have one or two prospects in mind worth moving up for (cost: likely Beno Udrih). Otherwise, they'll use #59 on an international player to let develop overseas or maybe use it on a domestic player they like.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sign Javtokas, Wallace, Scola, and JR Smith.

[timvp]

The trade helps the Spurs out a lot. First of all, it makes room for Javtokas. Then it gives the Spurs a perimeter oriented power forward and a pretty big small forward. Depending on how high the Spurs are on these two guys, they could look to spend there MLE more aggressively now.

Before, it just didn't make sense to go after someone like Speedy. Now, if the Spurs think Bonner can be the power forward they needed and Williams has a couple years left, they could go that route.

I still want some more rebounding and a young, long three behind Bowen, but this offseason is off to a very good start.

Don't forget this move probably makes it a lot easier for Holt to swallow a Nazr sign-and-trade deal.

Good Times.

:smokin

[SPARKY]

What's not clear is the possible return for Mohammed in a S&T. Chicago can sign him outright.

[Buddy Holly]

http://www.bbl.net/Photos/Players/136.jpg

[SPARKY]

Ideally the Spurs can find a team in dire need of a bigman and with a surplus of young small forwards and guide Mohammed to that destination.

[jn77]

Is Wallace even a reasonable possibility? I don't think he will leave Detroit. I would love to see him in the Silver & Black, but can it be done? What would it take to get him here? It is interedting and I will be monitoring this.

[Kori Ellis]

Is Wallace even a reasonable possibility? I don't think he will leave Detroit. I would love to see him in the Silver & Black, but can it be done? What would it take to get him here? It is interedting and I will be monitoring this.

He wants a lot of money. So unless all of a sudden he decides he wants to play in S.A. for ultra cheap, it's not going to happen.

[yavozerb]

Will everyone quit already on wallace!!He is going to sign for the highest contract due to the later part of his carrer and the spurs will do that, thank god!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[v2freak]

I put a lot of doubt on Wallace. Players usually choose between a chance to win and money, and he's already had the former.

[Kori Ellis]

If Javtokas is a done deal, then that's cool I guess. It's still hard to gauge what foreign players will actually do in the NBA. I think they'll trade Scola's rights.

I still want to see a young, athletic, rebounding forward. And then I guess they need to figure out what they are doing at backup point guard.

Draft day will be interesting because there are rumors circulating that the Spurs are trying to trade up.

I don't think Nazr will still be here. Though S&T is a possibility, I think the Spurs will offer him a courtesy low offer and then he'll sign elsewhere.

[intlspurshk]

Barry and Beno for M Bank or Rick Davis + fillers.

[infinite styles]

I wouldn't mind the Spurs trading up in the draft to get James White from Cincy. He's a long SF with good defense, explosive finisher on the break, has experience playing positions 1-3, and he improved his shot a great deal last year. He is my pick to replace Bowen when he decides to move on.

[Kori Ellis]

I wouldn't mind the Spurs trading up in the draft to get James White from Cincy. He's a long SF with good defense, explosive finisher on the break, has experience playing positions 1-3, and he improved his shot a great deal last year. He is my pick to replace Bowen when he decides to move on.

He worked out with the Spurs a couple days ago, I think.

[infinite styles]

He worked out with the Spurs a couple days ago, I think.
:wow :wow
Don't mess with my emotions Kori!!! If the Spurs were able to pull him in the draft that alone would make the offseason for me. I've watched him since HS and was waiting for the day he made it to the NBA especially if he was in Silver and Black. I like his game last year with Cincy and just have a gut feeling that he would fit in with the Spurs system.

[Kori Ellis]

:wow :wow
Don't mess with my emotions Kori!!! If the Spurs were able to pull him in the draft that alone would make the offseason for me. I've watched him since HS and was waiting for the day he made it to the NBA especially if he was in Silver and Black. I like his game last year with Cincy and just have a gut feeling that he would fit in with the Spurs system.

I'm not messing with you. He worked out with them on the 19th :)

[exstatic]

I wouldn't mind the Spurs trading up in the draft to get James White from Cincy. He's a long SF with good defense, explosive finisher on the break, has experience playing positions 1-3, and he improved his shot a great deal last year. He is my pick to replace Bowen when he decides to move on.
He's not even a SF, let alone a long one. He's 6'7", fer chrissakes, and nbadraft.net lists him as a guard.

[Kori Ellis]

He's not even a SF, let alone a long one. He's 6'7", fer chrissakes, and nbadraft.net lists him as a guard.

Oh I think he'd play SF. He's probably one of the most athletic guys in the draft, has a great vertical. Defensively, he has incredible lateral quickness, good footspeed, and long arms. He defended everyone but centers in college.

He's improved his outside shooting too.

I think the Spurs are looking at him for SF.

[exstatic]

190? He'd get steamrolled at F. Spurs better get him in the weight room if that's their plan.

[timvp]

With the rumors out there saying the Spurs are looking at small forward, that is CIA speak for the Spurs are looking at point guards.

This is a weak draft for point guards but there are a couple decent prospects.

[infinite styles]

He's not even a SF, let alone a long one. He's 6'7", fer chrissakes, and nbadraft.net lists him as a guard.

Why do ya'll always believe what these draft sites list guys as when just about all of them play positions other than what they are listed at. Anyways, yeah he may be 6'7 but the boys arms are longer than the Nile "fer chrissakes" And like Kori said his quickness on the defensive end is unbelievable. The thing that I like about him is that he keeps a cool head under pressure and during last years tourney he ended up taking over the point guard positon late in games.

[Pistons < Spurs]

190? He'd get steamrolled at F. Spurs better get him in the weight room if that's their plan.


Sounds like a shorter Tayshaun Prince, who is 6'9" @ 215

[exstatic]

I'm not saying he's not a prospect. He's just VERY light in weight even for a SF. I did read his entire NBAdraft.net profile, and while they had some nice things to say in their strengths area, there were some things that led me to believe that he wasn't suited for SF.


Has not shown the ability to add much strength to his frame ... Cannot handle contact, and rarely gets dunks in traffic ... Needs to get much stronger

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

sign Dermarr Johnson. For your sakes and his. He needs to get away from GK and his doghouse

[exstatic]

sign Dermarr Johnson. For your sakes and his. He needs to get away from GK and his doghouse
We were discussing what a terrible rebounder Rashard Lewis is in another thread, but DerMarr takes that to a whole new level. If you projected his 15 minutes into 45, his rebounding would be 5.1 per. That sucks for someone who's 6'9". He was a pretty good rebounder before he broke his neck, but seems afraid of contact now.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I like us acquiring Williams. He can rebound and hustle and allows us to find a young SF this year and allow him to grow. Eric Williams didn't play much this year, but was a very solid player at Jersey and I'm sure will be for us. He is also a character guy in the lockeroom from what I know.

What I'd like to know is Bonner vs Marks - aren't they about the same? Bonner more range, but otherwise what makes him the better player? Must admit to not having seen much of Bonner. Please fill me in.

[Kori Ellis]

190? He'd get steamrolled at F. Spurs better get him in the weight room if that's their plan.
Well Bowen isn't really 200. They are probably about the same size.

[T Park]

aren't they about the same? Bonner more range, but otherwise what makes him the better player? Must admit to not having seen much of Bonner. Please fill me in.



Bonner is alot thicker, shorter, and more of a banger, and just a better overall player.

[Kori Ellis]

What I'd like to know is Bonner vs Marks - aren't they about the same? Bonner more range, but otherwise what makes him the better player? Must admit to not having seen much of Bonner. Please fill me in.

I think they are about the same size. Bonner is a consistent 3 point shooter. Marks is a borderline NBA player who gets injured all the time. He's a nice guy and very well liked by his teammates, but he's really fragile.

[supaphly119]

chris kaman, anyone? do we want a big? the guy's a strong presence in the middle or is that only because he was next to elton brand?

[Texas_Ranger]

Trade Barry for JR Smith
Trade Nazr for Tyson Chandler
Get Javtokas & Scola

[Slinkyman]

chris kaman, anyone? do we want a big? the guy's a strong presence in the middle or is that only because he was next to elton brand?

He's not a FA until after next season.

[supaphly119]

He's not a FA until after next season.

well, thats what i get for listening tomy dad and his spurs babble.

although freeing up all that cap space a few years down the road could leave the door open.

[FreshPrince22]

chris kaman, anyone? do we want a big? the guy's a strong presence in the middle or is that only because he was next to elton brand?

Who are you giving up? Tony? Manu? That's what it would take.... Clippers have no reason to move him for your role players. Double Double Centers are worth all-star guards in this league. And you won't have the money to sign him in Free Agency (next year). The Spurs realistically won't be looking at Cap space untill Timmy retires. On paper they would in 2008, but that's if they only keep 3 players on the roster and don't add players with the MLE, re-sign players, or use draft picks.

[supaphly119]

Who are you giving up? Tony? Manu? That's what it would take.... Clippers have no reason to move him for your role players. Double Double Centers are worth all-star guards in this league. And you sure as hell won't have the money to sign him in Free Agency (next year).

i was under the false impression that he's a FA this summer...

and i don't know who i'd send, i'm not a very good GM...thats why i don't work in the front office.

[Streakyshooter08]

I still want to see a young, athletic, rebounding forward.


Do you think there is a chance that they try to get Jared Jeffries? Good size and SF.

Javtokas--> LLE
Jeffries--> big part of MLE
PG--> vet min

Javtokas/ Oberto
Timmy/ Bonner/ Horry
Bowen/ Jeffries/ Williams
Manu/ Finley/ Barry
Parker/ Udrih/ PG

I don't know if we would have enough at the C position, if Nazr leaves for nothing but that would be a solid team.

[polandprzem]

Do you thing Joe D would pull a S&T with Big Ben?
Brent and Nazr from the spurs?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Javtokas--> LLE
Jeffries--> big part of MLE
PG--> vet min

Javtokas/ Oberto
Timmy/ Bonner/ Horry
Bowen/ Jeffries/ Williams
Manu/ Finley/ Barry
Parker/ Udrih/ PG

I don't know if we would have enough at the C position, if Nazr leaves for nothing but that would be a solid team.

i read that the wizards are goin to match any offer for jeffries if itz in the zone of their price range.

if scola comes over, i think duncan n javtokas will play heavy minutes at center, we need a backup center imo.

[ChumpDumper]

Sign Javtokas.

Sign and trade Nazr to Chitown for Chris Duhon if some kind or Nazr/Barry for Wallace blockbuster doesn't happen.

Barry for JR.

See if anyone in the mid first round wants to bite on a Scola trade.

Fill up summer league with whomever I choose in an upcoming thread.

Plan the parade for next June.

[Kori Ellis]

Fill up summer league with whomever I choose in an upcoming thread.

:lol

:tu

[Streakyshooter08]

Do you thing Joe D would pull a S&T with Big Ben?
Brent and Nazr from the spurs?

Well, I doubt it. They won't help the Spurs by giving them a defensive 1st teamer. If they do a S&T with Ben, it might be with a non-contender. The only chance Wallace comes her is he accepts the MLE... and that won't happen, so no Ben for us. :depressed

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont give a fuck for the next 2-3 season, cose 09 we goin to be a big player in the FA market, and guess which mofo the spurs will probaly targetin......DWIGHT HOWARD!!!

09 - 1 FIRST ROUND PICK, 2 2ND ROUND PICKS

now if we can trade nazr n barry and stack up draft picks for 09, and move up in the draft :D:D hope greg oden stays in college for the 3-4 years :D:D

[Streakyshooter08]

i read that the wizards are goin to match any offer for jeffries if itz in the zone of their price range.


Maybe they would be interested in Scola, Barry or some other player to pull off a trade. How about Williams/Scola for Jeffries?

[T Park]

Chris Duhon?

I don't know if he fills any needs............

[polandprzem]

Sign Javtokas.

Sign and trade Nazr to Chitown for Chris Duhon if some kind or Nazr/Barry for Wallace blockbuster doesn't happen.

Barry for JR.

See if anyone in the mid first round wants to bite on a Scola trade.

Fill up summer league with whomever I choose in an upcoming thread.

Plan the parade for next June.

Good moves.

But we still don't know if JR can contribute in the level we want him to plus Duhon is risky, good player but risky.
If that will goes right there is still a center problem

[ChumpDumper]

Chris Duhon?

I don't know if he fills any needs............2006 playoffs:

Beno Udrih 6.7 mpg

[T Park]

So whos the long SF?

[furry_spurry]

I posted this in the other thread-- what if Robertas doesn't come now? I don't believe anything until it is signed on the dotted line.

[ChumpDumper]

Good moves.

But we still don't know if JR can contribute in the level we want him to plus Duhon is risky, good player but risky.
If that will goes right there is still a center problemWith Finley around, I don't give too much of a shit if JR is ready right now.

Duhon can't be any worse than Beno in Pop's eyes.

Center spot? I'm probably counting too much on Javotokas, but given the production from there last season, am I really?

I do think it is very important to get another Rasho-like dreadnaught center for Yao situations, but there are couple of relatively young guys who could fit the bill on the cheap.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I posted this in the other thread-- what if Robertas doesn't come now? I don't believe anything until it is signed on the dotted line.


that startin center spot is garunteed now, since rasho is gone, nazr looks liek his goin to get paid by another team. if javtokas cant beat out orbs for teh starting spot, then he better have a hard look in the mirror.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Duhon can't be any worse than Beno in Pop's eyes.


didnt duhon had a good college career, untill he decided to stay in college when his team went deep in ncaa and folded the year after.

[ChumpDumper]

So whos the long SF?You can certainly offer some of the MLE to Jones -- or maybe Shawne Williams' stock has dropped enough to get his draft spot for Scola (I don't give much of a shit about the bench press issue for a perimeter player coming out of college). Also plenty of tweeners worth a look in summer league. Having Bonner and Williams lessens the need to panic sign just any long SF somewhat.

[polandprzem]

With Finley around, I don't give too much of a shit if JR is ready right now.

Duhon can't be any worse than Beno in Pop's eyes.

Center spot? I'm probably counting too much on Javotokas, but given the production from there last season, am I really?

I do think it is very important to get another Rasho-like dreadnaught center for Yao situations, but there are couple of relatively young guys who could fit the bill on the cheap.

Hmm you don't give a shit if Finley is aronud - okay, but we have to remember that Pop will probably reduce Bowens minutes (Olympics and old)and that will lead to a bigger Finley minutes on the F position and he is not a youngster, so it might be a problem when playoffstime will come.
Plus we don't have a 3-pt shooter and don't count on parker to develop that in one year (even if Pop wants to). JR is shooting in mid 30% from beyond the arc.
Yup it can be a problem. Plus Horry is damn old right now.
And you talking about some young prospects at center position. Yup - but how tyhey play will look like in the playoffs thats the main concern.

[ChumpDumper]

didnt duhon had a good college career, untill he decided to stay in college when his team went deep in ncaa and folded the year after.Duhon doesn't turn the ball over much. That's priority 1 for me.

[ChumpDumper]

Hmm you don't give a shit if Finley is aronud - okay, but we have to remember that Pop will probably reduce Bowens minutes (Olympics and old)and that will lead to a bigger Finley minutes on the F position and he is not a youngster, so it might be a problem when playoffstime will come.
Plus we don't have a 3-pt shooter and don't count on parker to develop that in one year (even if Pop wants to). JR is shooting in mid 30% from beyond the arc.
Yup it can be a problem. Plus Horry is damn old right now.
And you talking about some young prospects at center position. Yup - but how tyhey play will look like in the playoffs thats the main concern.You're acting like this team needs a complete renovation.

It ain't so.

We already got Horry's replacement in Bonner.

[Kori Ellis]

Hmm you don't give a shit if Finley is aronud - okay, but we have to remember that Pop will probably reduce Bowens minutes (Olympics and old)and that will lead to a bigger Finley minutes on the F position and he is not a youngster, so it might be a problem when playoffstime will come.
Plus we don't have a 3-pt shooter and don't count on parker to develop that in one year (even if Pop wants to). JR is shooting in mid 30% from beyond the arc.
Yup it can be a problem. Plus Horry is damn old right now.
And you talking about some young prospects at center position. Yup - but how tyhey play will look like in the playoffs thats the main concern.

With Manu/Bowen/Finley at the wing positions, the Spurs don't need to worry if JR Smith could play or not. Bonner also plays small forward and is a 3 point shooter.

That being said, I don't think the Spurs are going to get JR Smith.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think the sf we are lookin for will be in the draft or sumone is goin to be sign.

[ChumpDumper]

New Orleans really seems to think they are just a player or two away from a playoff run. Scott seems to be in firm control of player decisions right now, and he would love a guy like Barry. That said, they will be getting plenty of offers for JR, and some could be better.

[polandprzem]

You're acting like this team needs a complete renovation.

It ain't so.

We already got Horry's replacement in Bonner.

It's probaly is so. I don't know.

And Booner as Horry replacement - it gives me nightmares. I don't know maybe I've got to chceck some of the Booner games from the season and how he can contribute on D.
We have no defensive center.

[polandprzem]

And let me remind you that Manu is on decline and he injuries slowing him down even more

[ChumpDumper]

And Booner as Horry replacement - it gives me nightmares. I don't know maybe I've got to chceck some of the Booner games from the season and how he can contribute on D.Horry shows up in the playoffs every other year. If we have a 26 year-old scrapper PF who strokes the three better than Horry, there's nothing more we can really hope for.
We have no defensive center.That's all Javtokas is, really. I've seen enough of Rytas to see their defensive scheme uses Javtokas alot like we will. I shouldn't be putting all my eggs in his basket, but it'll do until I sober up.

[ChumpDumper]

And let me remind you that Manu is on decline and he injuries slowing him down even more
:lol

[polandprzem]

:lol

:rolleyes

It's not funny Chumpie. Come on. :(


It's all about you being optimistic and me being realistic.


Manu will no longer be that good as he would be without injuries.

Booner a playoff contributer?

One defensive unknow defensive center? I would like to see Rytas then and how they using Javtokas. You know basketball and you know how it is translating to the nBA. It's a different basketball here in Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

The videos are out there. Whole games.

Manu is Manu. I have long been on record saying he can't play more than 30mpg. I know all about his injuries. Fortunately, SG is a relatively easy position to fill with a young athlete, so I don't sweat that as much as C or PG. I am also comfortable in the fact we have real ironmen in the swing rotation in Finley and Bowen, and if Barry isn't traded for youth I won't really shed a tear because he is useful.

[Kori Ellis]

One defensive unknow defensive center? I would like to see Rytas then and how they using Javtokas. You know basketball and you know how it is translating to the nBA. It's a different basketball here in Europe.

Don't go crazy about center. We are going to see Duncan at center a lot this season. Plus I think they'll pick up one more bigman in addition to Javtokas.

[polandprzem]

Don't go crazy about center. We are going to see Duncan at center a lot this season. Plus I think they'll pick up one more bigman in addition to Javtokas.

Yeah - there is still nazr to be traded.

Hopefull everuthing will goeas right.
But I can see (Dallas and Phoenix (now) (and maybe Det and Miami and Indiana later) in better position then the spurs.

[btw - JO -Ben trade?]

[ChumpDumper]

Well, your glass is half empty. I've seen enough 1/2 - 3/4 roster turnovers to simply believe the FO can put a team together.

[polandprzem]

Well, your glass is half empty. I've seen enough 1/2 - 3/4 roster turnovers to simply believe the FO can put a team together.

Fabricio Oberto?

[ChumpDumper]

What about him?

He'll probably play more this season.

[polandprzem]

Well, your glass is half empty. I've seen enough 1/2 - 3/4 roster turnovers to simply believe the FO can put a team together.

[ChumpDumper]

Front office.

[polandprzem]

Front office.


That was a joke :depressed


:cry :cry :cry




-----
okay - I'm going to do the second breakfast and that will be a scrumbled eggs:) I love it.

Seeya and good night. Sweet dreams about Booner :)

[ChumpDumper]

That was a joke.I didn't know they had those in Poland.

[TDMVPDPOY]

we are missin one player for the B-TEAM = barry, beno, bonner, bowen, bob horry?

[polandprzem]

I didn't know they had those in Poland.

Accually they don't. I just wanted to be like you - Americans.
It didn't work for me I guess :depressed



___
Damn - it was hard to do those eggs with my stretches

[yavozerb]

I think our roster look like so:
Duncan-javot.-bonner (5)
Scola-Duncan-Horry (4)
Bowen-Finley-Draft pick
Manu-Finley-Barry
Tony-FA-Beno
Williams will be traded or waived, Nazr will be involved in S&T, Spurs will have a late 1st draft pick due to trades

[strangeweather]

I think we need another guy who can play center besides Duncan, Javtokas, and Oberto -- someone who can body-up Shaq if the Heat make it back to the finals next year.

Here's what I've got:

Trade Barry for Jumaine Jones
Sign Javtokas for the LLE
Sign Pargo and Scot Pollard out of the MLE

PG: Parker, Pargo, Beno
SG: Ginobili, Finley
SF: Bowen, Jones, Williams
PF: Duncan, Bonner, Horry
C: Pollard, Javtokas, Oberto

This gives us a big-ass legit center who we know can be an okay starter, but would also be fine as a backup. He gives us a lot of what Rasho does, for what should be a much better contract. If Bonner or Javtokas is ready for a starting job, it will be easy to shuffle the lineup, but if they aren't we at least have options. And if we end up putting Pollard in mothballs except when we're playing Yao or Shaq, no harm done.

We get our athletic 3 with Jones.

Pargo is an affordable option that gives us someone who might be better than Beno, but still gives Beno a chance to prove he's better.

We still have Williams's expiring deal in case we need a tune-up at midseason.

Trade Scola's rights to draft another overseas Euro, because the roster is already 14-deep without adding another rookie.

[leemajors]

I think we need another guy who can play center besides Duncan, Javtokas, and Oberto -- someone who can body-up Shaq if the Heat make it back to the finals next year.

Here's what I've got:

Trade Barry for Jumaine Jones
Sign Javtokas for the LLE
Sign Pargo and Scot Pollard out of the MLE

PG: Parker, Pargo, Beno
SG: Ginobili, Finley
SF: Bowen, Jones, Williams
PF: Duncan, Bonner, Horry
C: Pollard, Javtokas, Oberto

This gives us a big-ass legit center who we know can be an okay starter, but would also be fine as a backup. He gives us a lot of what Rasho does, for what should be a much better contract. If Bonner or Javtokas is ready for a starting job, it will be easy to shuffle the lineup, but if they aren't we at least have options. And if we end up putting Pollard in mothballs except when we're playing Yao or Shaq, no harm done.

We get our athletic 3 with Jones.

Pargo is an affordable option that gives us someone who might be better than Beno, but still gives Beno a chance to prove he's better.

We still have Williams's expiring deal in case we need a tune-up at midseason.

Trade Scola's rights to draft another overseas Euro, because the roster is already 14-deep without adding another rookie.

:tu an affordable scenario too.

[SPARKY]

Trade Barry + Scola's rights or whatever to get Jack from Indy.
Sign Javtokas with the LLE
Sign Claxton or Bobby Jackson using some portion of the MLE
Use the remainder on young swing or vet big like Pollard

Starters
1 Parker
2 SJackson
3 Bowen
4 Duncan
5 Javtokas

Bench
1 Claxton or BJackson
1 Udrih
2 Ginobili
2/3 Finley
3/4 Bonner
4 Horry
5 Oberto or Pollard

[MoSpur]

Manu coming off the bench is not going to happen.

[SPARKY]

Manu coming off the bench is not going to happen.

When he can play 35 minutes a night let me know.

[T Park]

Manu coming off the bench is not going to happen.

Manu coming off the bench, is the only way he'll be worth a crap and hopefully return to his worthfullness again.

[ChumpDumper]

I like the Pollard idea, but now we get to talk Jordan into taking Brent Barry?

[T Park]

Yuck on Scott Pollard.

You think Ginobili is hurt alot.

Sign him and see what happens.

[spurster]

I don't think matching up with Shaq is a high priority. The Spurs need to match up with the Mavs and Suns, though maybe the Spurs should worry about Yao a little bit.

I don't view backup PG as something the Spurs desperately need. I think Beno could have been developed more, but a lot of his minutes went to Nick-the-not-so-quick-anymore. Brent can also be used there, and also wouldn't be so overmatched on switches, though they need someone if Brent is traded.

[strangeweather]

I like the Pollard idea, but now we get to talk Jordan into taking Brent Barry?
I hadn't thought about the Jordan angle, but teams with too many kids often like adding veterans just to keep things a little more stable. Barry's certainly not a leadership guy, but he's a good locker room guy who isn't going to bring drama, and adds some outside shooting.

Another option would be to sign and trade Nazr for Duhon like you suggested instead of signing Pargo, and then try to split the midlevel between Pollard and Jones. The problem is that since we don't lose Barry, it has us taking on more cap and an awful lot of guys -- we might need to dump Barry or Oberto for a trade exception to make it work.

Of course, we could always ship Barry off somewhere else -- J.R. Smith is an obvious trade possibility, of course, but I'd rather see us pick up a 3 than a 2. Maybe it will be a guy that nobody thought would be available.

[RON ARTEST]

I don't think matching up with Shaq is a high priority. The Spurs need to match up with the Mavs and Suns, though maybe the Spurs should worry about Yao a little bit.

I don't view backup PG as something the Spurs desperately need. I think Beno could have been developed more, but a lot of his minutes went to Nick-the-not-so-quick-anymore. Brent can also be used there, and also wouldn't be so overmatched on switches, though they need someone if Brent is traded.
i think backup point guard is very important but your right because tony is gonna play 36 minutes anyway so all you need beno to do is play 10 minutes which he can do.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sending out Nazr for Duhon is pointless and redundant.

We need to capitalize on Nazr and get our SF out of that deal.

[strangeweather]

Sending out Nazr for Duhon is pointless and redundant.

We need to capitalize on Nazr and get our SF out of that deal.
Do you think we can pry someone away from Atlanta, or what do you have in mind?

[ChumpDumper]

Barry's deal just seems to make him attractive to a team wit a "win now" outlook. Charlotte just doesn't seem to be there right now. Now, had he gone to North Carolina for college, I'd have said it's a lock.

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta get what you can with Nazr.

I really think Atlanta is trying to develop an all-SF team of sorts, and whomever liked him then isn't there now.

[RON ARTEST]

Gotta get what you can with Nazr.

I really think Atlanta is trying to develop an all-SF team of sorts, and whomever liked him then isn't there now.
i dont know what atlanta is thinking. i have never seen so many forwards and guards in my entire life. those are the kinds of organizations that never win.

[MoSpur]

Signing and trading Nazr to the Hawks would be great.

[ChumpDumper]

I would only say Duhon is redundant if Beno could play more than 6 mpg in the playoffs.

[SPARKY]

Chicago has the room to sign Nazr outright and unless the Spurs were willing to take back a contract the Bulls didn't want or the Bulls need the extra space, I'm not really seeing them as a great potential S&T partner.

[j-6]

Trade Barry + Scola's rights or whatever to get Jack from Indy.

How realistic is this, MB?

[polandprzem]

All your prediction will give more fun when Pop will decide what to do.

After CIAPop strikes everybody will be in :wow mode

[polandprzem]

How realistic is this, MB?

not a chance... hopefully

[strangeweather]

Gotta get what you can with Nazr.

I really think Atlanta is trying to develop an all-SF team of sorts, and whomever liked him then isn't there now.
Unless they sign Przybilla or Ben Wallace, they could want Nazr simply by default -- there's always a shortage of centers. The alternatives are guys like Cato.

I'm not sure they give up Childress for him. Anyone want Donta Smith?

[ChumpDumper]

All your prediction will give more fun when Pop will decide what to do.

After CIAPop strikes everybody will be in :wow modeWell, I called Rasho to Toronto. That'll be the only one I get right. Luck.

[j-6]

Well, I called Rasho to Toronto. That'll be the only one I get right. Luck.


I'm glad that stiff Aruajo wasn't part of the package.

[ChumpDumper]

Unless they sign Przybilla or Ben Wallace, they could want Nazr simply by default -- there's always a shortage of centers. The alternatives are guys like Cato.Or David Andersen, whom they own the rights to. Or the #5 pick.

I don't know what it is, Billy Knight must have mad powerpoint skills or something to sell his owners on his weird vision of the future and be so patient with all the losing and losses.

[Bruno]

Chicago has the room to sign Nazr outright and unless the Spurs were willing to take back a contract the Bulls didn't want or the Bulls need the extra space, I'm not really seeing them as a great potential S&T partner.

Agree and Chicago hasn't a bad contract.
We will get something for Nazr in a S&T if he wants to play in a team over the cap and if this team is ready to give him more than the MLE.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm glad that stiff Aruajo wasn't part of the package.It was a pleasant surprise getting someone back who might actually play for us.

[polandprzem]

CD - since when you are interested in NBA?

[strangeweather]

Or David Andersen, whom they own the rights to. Or the #5 pick.
All possible. I don't have a clue what Atlanta will do. I just meant that he doesn't have to be their dream player to be someone they end up targeting.


I don't know what it is, Billy Knight must have mad powerpoint skills or something to sell his owners on his weird vision of the future and be so patient with all the losing and losses.
Maybe it's just that with the team's history, they don't have any confidence that they can do any better by dumping him.

[SPARKY]

How realistic is this, MB?


I don't know but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

Anyways, the argument for it is that the Pacers seem likely to blow up their team this summer. Barry's deal is up in two years and it's not that expensive. He'd give them an experienced vet and he does play Jack's primary position. The Spurs need him in the deal to get the salaries right. If Indiana really wanted to clear cap soon the Spurs could send them Eric Williams. Not sure Jack's star has declined that much, but you never know. After that, I'd think the Spurs would have to add a sweetener such as a future pick, Beno, or Scola's rights. I'd think if the Pacers junk the current roster then they will be looking for picks, cap room, and young players on small contracts. The Spurs have the assets to put together a decent package to that end.

From the Spurs' perspective, I'm not sure where they are at. They currently have $10.5 mil committed to Barry for 2006-08. Jack has $27.2 mil due him for the next 4 seasons. The Rose and Nesterovic trades erased something on the order of $38 million between 2006-09 from the Spurs' cap.

The Spurs already have their big 3 locked up.

I think the Spurs go a cheaper route. We'll see if that's the best.

[SPARKY]

I think Jack presents the Spurs with an excellent opportunity to buy low. His star isn't that high in the league now, but the talent is still there. In SA he can be that consistent 3rd or 4th scorer, the guy knocking down championship winning shots and quieting road crowds in the playoffs with his drives to the hole. At age 28 his current contract covers the remainder of his prime. This hasn't been discussed too much in here but the Spurs could use a little more toughness and heart on the current roster.

Jack's game is tailor made for the 'new' NBA. A scoring swing with a solid jumper is not a bad thing in SA.

[ChumpDumper]

CD - since when you are interested in NBA?A fan since 87-88, took a greater interest about ten years later when I found the boards.

[Mr. Body]

Agree and Chicago hasn't a bad contract.
We will get something for Nazr in a S&T if he wants to play in a team over the cap and if this team is ready to give him more than the MLE.

I would see the Chandler contract as a bad contract. Could be worse, but it's bad.

Chicago does have a problem coming up in the next 2-3 years. They are loaded with talented perimeter players who will need their paydays. Nocioni, Deng, Gordon, Duhon, Hinrich, have all shown they deserve their money. On top of that, they have the #2 and the #16 in this draft to worry about.

They don't want to be priced out of keeping their players and losing them for nothing. They could make a run at a superstar type with a package of a few of them, but the right one needs to come along.

Meanwhile, throwing cap money at Nazr Mohammed just because it's there may not be the soundest idea. S&T'ing some minor pieces for him preserves the cap and doesn't thrust them further towards luxury cap territory.

[Bruno]

I would see the Chandler contract as a bad contract. Could be worse, but it's bad.


You're right. I forget Chandler.

[MoSpur]

Signing Jackson would mean the Spurs would owe him around $27.5 mil until 2010.

[MoSpur]

I know it has been discussed, but thought I would include it here. Actual quote from free agent Bobby Jackson, "I definitely want to be on a playoff contender, that's for sure. I want to be on a team that can make a run for the championship."

I know he is injury prone, but sounds like he is ready to get down to business. He seems like a good option. I am sure there are better ones. I just thought I'd include a quote.

[mardigan]

Bobby Jackson isnt a defender and shoots to much. I would rather see the Spurs bring in a Chucky Atkins or, even though he is old and the last thing we need is another old player, Lindsey Hunter, who can still defend and hit threes. Kind of what Charlie Ward was supposed to be. Al Harrington would also be a great fit.

[MoSpur]

Al Harrington wouldn't be a good fit. He would be a great fit. He will demand too much $$ though.

[mardigan]

Al Harrington wouldn't be a good fit. He would be a great fit. He will demand too much $$ though.

Totally agree, wish we could get him though

[Mavs<Spurs]

Summarize, please:

best guesses for remaining Spurs moves.

[mardigan]

Summarize, please:

best guesses for remaining Spurs moves.

Hopefully get a vet backup point, Chucky Atkins or Lindsey Hunter, bring over Javotkas or whatever is name is, maybe see what Ian Mahini can offer, trade Scolas rights for maybe like a Shane Battier, and sign Chris Wilcox if we can afford him

[Mavs<Spurs]

Sounds like Scola's rights for James White in draft

Barry for a player like JR Smith

Pick up either Duhon, Speedy or Jackson for back up pt guard.

Is this right?

Bonner starts. RJ off bench.

Are people serious about consistently having Manu come in off the bench?

Manu is our second best player (at least when he is healthy).

In my opinion, if Manu and Tony both play at their best, Manu is better.
Manu makes everyone around him better more than Tony. I think Tony will stay an all star quality pt guard (although he really plays more like a shooting guard). And while Tony's midrange j is pretty good, Manu is the far better 3 point shooter. Both finish well at the rim.

Manu is only 29, right?

[Mavs<Spurs]

Hopefully get a vet backup point, Chucky Atkins or Lindsey Hunter, bring over Javotkas or whatever is name is, maybe see what Ian Mahini can offer, trade Scolas rights for maybe like a Shane Battier, and sign Chris Wilcox if we can afford him

I'm normally a positive person, glass is half full but I don't like much of this:

Hunter can't shoot. Battier can play defense and is a smart player, but not that great.

Ian is too raw.

[Mavs<Spurs]

comments?

[mardigan]

Everything you said sounds good, but no Bonner startin, and your right about Manu, he is more of a play maker than Tony. I dont even know who James White is

[Mavs<Spurs]

Everything you said sounds good, but no Bonner startin, and your right about Manu, he is more of a play maker than Tony. I dont even know who James White is


I just heard about him from Kori and Infinite Styles.

Kori's very trustworthy and what they were saying sounded awesome.

They said that he was a very athletic guard/small forward who could defend all positions but the 5, was smart, could play some point, has improved his j and is explosive. He played for Cincinati.

[mardigan]

I'm normally a positive person, glass is half full but I don't like much of this:

Hunter can't shoot. Battier can play defense and is a smart player, but not that great.

Ian is too raw.

I know Ian is a stretch, but did you watch the Pistons this year in the playoffs and regular seaon? About the only other thing Linsay does besides play great d is shoot the three ball, look up his percentages, and besides I would rather have Duhon or Atkins

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think Bonner or Javtokas will start. I think whoever starts next to Tim isn't here yet. Hopefully the Spurs can get someone by trading Barry or sign-and-trading Nazr.

I don't think the Spurs will get JR Smith -- looks like the Hornets are trying to use him to trade up the draft. I don't think Spurs will have the money to get Speedy here, but it could happen.

And I find it interesting that there are rumors that the Spurs are trying to trade into the first round.

And I'm looking forward to seeing who is on the Spurs summer league team.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I know Ian is a stretch, but did you watch the Pistons this year in the playoffs and regular seaon? About the only other thing Linsay does besides play great d is shoot the three ball, look up his percentages, and besides I would rather have Duhon or Atkins


really (about Lindsey)? I'll have to look up his percentage.

He is a great on the ball defender, no doubt.

Against Jason Terry or Devin Harris, he might be useful.

But I don't want more offensive liabilities. It's too hard playing 4 on 5 on offense. Just look at Detroit. Also, look at us last year.

We need 2 way players, but then maybe I expect too much.

[mardigan]

Alright, I just looked up Hunters percentages, I lose, but he does play good d

[mardigan]

I hope we really try and throw a bunch of money at Wilcox, hes a Spur waiting to happen. And is White a rookie or what?

[polandprzem]

Manu is only 29, right?

Only?

Goshhh :rolleyes


Look how he is playing and what costs it took for him. A body of a player like him is worning up pretty quickly.
So to me Manu will have 2 more good years and then - thank you Mnau for your play :)
Timmy and Bruce are not getting younger so we don't have time. We must get Chempionships as quick as possible and as many as possible

[Mavs<Spurs]

I don't think Bonner or Javtokas will start. I think whoever starts next to Tim isn't here yet. Hopefully the Spurs can get someone by trading Barry or sign-and-trading Nazr.

I don't think the Spurs will get JR Smith -- looks like the Hornets are trying to use him to trade up the draft. I don't think Spurs will have the money to get Speedy here, but it could happen.

And I find it interesting that there are rumors that the Spurs are trying to trade into the first round.

And I'm looking forward to seeing who is on the Spurs summer league team.


thank you. I'm very excited and intrigued about us trying to move up in the draft.

Not to be harsh, but with Rasho or Nazr having started before, I would think that we should finish with a starting lineup at least as good as last year.

Also, Kori, is Manu really coming off the bench ?

A little difficult to believe although I kind of understand the idea behind it.

[Kori Ellis]

No one from the Spurs or local media has said that Manu is coming off the bench.

That's just fan speculation.

[Mavs<Spurs]

No one from the Spurs or local media has said that Manu is coming off the bench.

That's just fan speculation.


then, I don't believe it.

1 year of injuries.

Next thing you know, speculation will abound that Tim Duncan is coming off the bench.

After all if Manu is younger than Tim and Manu's injury history is no worse than Tim Duncan's, then Tim must come off the bench too?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[mardigan]

Manus not coming off the bench, thats the reason we got Finley

[Mavs<Spurs]

Manus not coming off the bench, thats the reason we got Finley


that and he backs up Bruce. He enables us to play 4 down and spread the court with shooters surrounding Tim.

[Bruno]

I'm curious to see what Spurs will do with their bigmen this offseason. For the rest of the roster, it's pretty obvious but I have no clue what they will do with the bigman rotation.

[Rescueone]

Trade Barry for JR Smith
Trade Nazr for Tyson Chandler
Get Javtokas & Scola
:tu :tu I can live with that

[mardigan]

Just say no to Tyson Candler, when is the last time the guy made it threw a whole season?

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs are going to make a play for Big Ben. No reason not to try.

[mardigan]

I dont think we could ever throw enough money at him

[clambake]

Manu off the bench might be interesting. Gives them that spark and speed they were lacking this year. Might make Pop forget small ball.

[ChumpDumper]

If money is an issue (I'm sure it is, but one never knows), Dumars' willingness to play ball and opinion of our non-core players becomes important.

I'm not saying it's entirely realistic, but Ben's agent gets an early call from us.

[Mr. Body]

There will be a call, definitely, but we shouldn't expect it to happen.

[strangeweather]

If money is an issue (I'm sure it is, but one never knows), Dumars' willingness to play ball and opinion of our non-core players becomes important.

I'm not saying it's entirely realistic, but Ben's agent gets an early call from us.
I'm not going to believe it until I see it, but much stranger things have happened.

And if Ben is sick of Flip, he might well like playing next to Duncan better than Tyson Chandler, and probably a lot better than pulling down the tall dollars winning 20 games a year in an empty arena in Atlanta.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, if Ben is leaving we can put together a halfway decent package. Not equal value, but who gets equal value these days?

[picnroll]

What about Gooden in a S&T for Nazr. Cavs could use an extra banger to use against Shaq and they have Varejao at the PF spot. Cavs could use Barry's shooting too.

[T Park]

Everyone first off, forget Tyson Chandler.

The guy SUCKS. Period.



Ben Wallace? What the hell, give it a shot.

[T Park]

What about Gooden in a S&T for Nazr. Cavs could use an extra banger to use against Shaq and they have Varejao at the PF spot. Cavs could use Barry's shooting too.

You think Bonner is a bad defender.


Gooden makes him look like Dennis Rodman.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Ben's defense and rebounding are so great, that I wouldn't care about being 4 on 5 on offense.

Ben on our team makes us easily the best defensive team in the league without any rival.

And defense wins championships.


Trade rights to Scola, Nazr, Barry and Beno for Ben?


I would be so thrilled if we pick up Ben. It would be very difficult for anybody to beat us. And I think that Ben can guard Dirk. Dirk is not faster than Ben. If Haslem and Posey can thwart Dirk this much, then certainly we can.

Time to man up and take the plunge and forget cap issues.

[picnroll]

Ben is pipe.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Ben is pipe.


Hey, it's not morning yet. No alarm clock and no roosters.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Varejao would be a great player to pick up if the Cavs would ever part with him, but not as good as Big Ben Wallace. Fear the Fro !!!

:fro :fro :fro


Every team in the league would be afraid to play us!

Nobody would score more than 70 points a game against us and we would be the best defensive team ever!!!

Tim- 1 of 2 best big men defenders in the NBA
Ben- 1 of 2 best big men defenders in the NBA
Bruce-best perimeter defender in the NBA
Manu-pretty good perimeter defender
Tony- his defense is a work in progress (but stopped Rip and steals)


Plus, we would dominate the boards!!!

No second chance points!!!

Great transition defense too!!!

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Ben is pipe.
Absolutely agreed. Unless we're talking about trading Manu or Parker (or Duncan :rolleyes) there's no way Detroit trades him here, and I don't really want to get rid of one of those guys. They're trying to win championships too and if he leaves their road will be tough enough, without trading a defensive force to one of their biggest rivals. Seriously, I really struggle to see the logic at work here...

[ChumpDumper]

If a free agent really wants to leave, you gotta try to get something back, and often you can't be too picky about what you get back.

That's the only logic at work here.

Sure it's a longshot, but so what? that's what the negotiation period is for.

[Slinkyman]

The nets did get VC for eric williams, aaron williams and Zo who couldn't play at the time so you never know. The question is would Ben want to play here? I don't think so, i think he'd rather go to Chicago and make them a contender and be the star then be a role player here. He has a pretty big ego, he did want people to call the Pistons HIS team :lol

[Winnipeg_Spur]

If a free agent really wants to leave, you gotta try to get something back, and often you can't be too picky about what you get back.

That's the only logic at work here.

Sure it's a longshot, but so what? that's what the negotiation period is for.
Usually there's some capspace involved so the trading team gets some cheap pieces and draft picks. In this case salaries need to match (or come close) so unless we're talking about Manu or Parker they would have to take back some decent salaries attached to pretty mediocre players. I just think if he's going to leave they'd probably be better off just letting him walk then taking our garbage. Here's hoping I'm wrong, though. :)

[ChumpDumper]

Again, it's all up to Ben - IF he wants to leave, Joe has to go to work.

[mardigan]

We are not getting Ben, I just dont see how the Pistons could be stupid enough to let him go. And even if we did get Ben, Im not saying he isnt amazing on d, but how long do you think his 31 year old body and 6 foot 9 frame will hold up banging in the west for 82 games. The Pistons already have dragged the best years out of him, and he didnt look like the same player at the end of the playoffs last year. I know he is the reigning defensive player of the year, but do we really need another older player. We neede to expolre youth options.

[ChumpDumper]

Who is better than Ben and a free agent?

We need a starting C.

The call will be made.

[mardigan]

I would rather throw money at a Nene, Wilcox, Pryzbilla, and then still have money to go after a Harrington or Jeffries

[mardigan]

Im not saying that anyone is better than Ben right now, what Im saying is if we did sign him, it would have to be for a lot of money for a long time, and in another season or 2 I dont think he will be the same player

[ChumpDumper]

I would rather throw money at a Nene, Wilcox, Pryzbilla, and then still have money to go after a Harrington or JeffriesYou wouldn't have any money left. A sign-and-trade with Detroit would leave our exceptions intact.

Again, I'm not saying it will happen, but we'll try.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I would rather throw money at a Nene, Wilcox, Pryzbilla, and then still have money to go after a Harrington or Jeffries


Ben is better than Nene ... and whoever else.

He fills our most obvious need right now.

It can't hurt to try.


And he knows we still play defense and Pop is more of a defensive coach than Flip.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I also don't know how much Ben would help teams that are not strong defensively elsewhere.


adding 1 great defensive player without a lot of offensive game to a team with weak defenders and good offense may not be an attractive option.

Remember, we all know Artest has a good offensive game. Ben's game is purely defense and rebounding.

For us, that works.

For others, it might not.

[mardigan]

I know Ben is better than fucking Nene, hes better than almost all big men, but nene is 8 or 9 years younger, and so are all of the other players I named, my problem with him is giving a shitload of money to an aging center whos best years of ball might be behind him. He shouldnt even have won defensive player of the year this year. And over the last couple of years his stats keep sliding down, probably from having to play three or four straight seasons without a backup

[Mavs<Spurs]

Fred Carter from NBA tv said that playing Ben too much cost the Pistons the series against the Heat.

He said that Ben was too much of a liability on the offensive end to justify playing him.


After their loss, his value might be a little more questioned, by the Pistons and others.


Much of the NBA today is going more towards a good offensive lineup (small ball). Ben is not quite as good a fit in that world.

We still, hopefully, are counting more on our defense to win us games than our offense.

[ChumpDumper]

That's why Ben doesn't seem to be a slamdunk for Chicago. He and Chandler and Sweetney would comprise the most offensively challenged frontline in the league.

[mardigan]

Especially if they draft Tyrus Thomas, yikes

[Mavs<Spurs]

Ben has missed how many games ?


Nene's game is not going to improve dramatically. He's been in the league for a few years now. We know what he's about.


Ben's numbers were down so dramatically that he still won defensive player of the year. Hasn't he won defensive player of the year 4 of the last 5 years.

Ben is a great rebounder, a great shot blocker and a good position and help defender.

I can't say that stats are going to measure the impact that Ben has on a game. And what stats that are enlightening about his game are not going downhill that dramatically.

He may cost, but you're not getting Nene. You would be buying a championship.

It is the most obvious thing in the world to try. It probably won't happen, but it is definitely worth the attempt and if we can find any way to get it done we should and we will.

[Mavs<Spurs]

That's why Ben doesn't seem to be a slamdunk for Chicago. He and Chandler and Sweetney would comprise the most offensively challenged frontline in the league.


It seems to me that the most obvious and pressing need that Chicago has is a low post scorer.

All of their scoring is from the perimeter.


There is too much pressure on Chicago's guards to score by jumpshots. Ben Wallace at center would do nothing to alleviate that pressure.

And all of this seems extremely obvious and clear.

[Mavs<Spurs]

It seems to me that the most obvious and pressing need that Chicago has is a low post scorer.

All of their scoring is from the perimeter.


There is too much pressure on Chicago's guards to score by jumpshots. Ben Wallace at center would do nothing to alleviate that pressure.

And all of this seems extremely obvious and clear.


It is one of the things that commentators who broadcast Chicago games always point out.

Gordon, Heinrich, Duhon, Nocioni,

great perimeter team but can they score in the post ? The answer is simply no.

And most of the NBA knows this and I'm thinking that Skiles is well aware of this.

[mardigan]

2 of the years that Ben has won d player of the year Bruce should have had it. Once again Im not saying Ben wouldnt be great for a couple of years, but we would have to lose a bunch of players, sign him to a long contract, and how many great years does he have left? We would be better off trying to trade for Kamen, its about just as realistic

[Mavs<Spurs]

I also find it ironic that you are questioning Ben's health and yet seem to have no problem touting Nene.


Pot meet Kettle.

I thought that you all had already met.

[Cherry]

I want Luis Scola in SA...but... :depressed





.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I would love to pick up Kaman.
I have been very impressed by his game.

He is a good defender with a solid offensive game.

However, I don't see the Clips parting with him. They were very close to going to the WCF last year.

Someone who averages a double double and is part of a tandem that averages more shot blocks than any other tandem and is part of a really, really good defensive team is not going to be easy to acquire. Especially at Kaman's age.

Clippers have shown that they are smart and serious about this. The moves that Baylor has made show that they are committed to maintaining/improving the Clippers. From nowhere to a legitimate top team, they are still wanting to move up. They know that getting rid of Kaman would be a huge mistake and the moves that they have made in the recent years show that they aren't going to do that (look at their resigning, look at their pickups.) Now, they are keeping their talent.

[mardigan]

Ahh yes grasshopper, it is a difference in age. I know Nene has missed the last two seasons, but he is 22 or 23 compared to 31, 32. One player still has his bright future ahead of him while the others is soon to be wearing down. Nene wouldnt even be my first choice either so I dont even know why I am arguing about him. Wilcox is the guy I think

[strangeweather]

That's why Ben doesn't seem to be a slamdunk for Chicago. He and Chandler and Sweetney would comprise the most offensively challenged frontline in the league.
I bet Chicago's perimeter guys would find penetrating to the basket a whole bunch of fun with two opposing interior defenders happy to leave their man at a moment's notice.

Even someone like Przybilla would be a better fit next to Chandler, I think.

Then again, thanks to the heinous contract, Chandler is supposedly available, so maybe they figure they bring in Ben and a PF and ship out Chandler somewhere.

[ChumpDumper]

2 of the years that Ben has won d player of the year Bruce should have had it. Once again Im not saying Ben wouldnt be great for a couple of years, but we would have to lose a bunch of players, sign him to a long contract, and how many great years does he have left?How many great years do the Spurs have? Let's really be realistic here.
We would be better off trying to trade for Kamen, its about just as realisticNope, Kaman isn't a free agent

[Mavs<Spurs]

I want Luis Scola in SA...but... :depressed





.


I'd like Scola. But from what I read here, Scola will not get here any earlier than the year after next. Spurs may not want to wait and want to use him as trade bait.

If they can't get him over here, Spurs do have voids that they must fill and a starting center surely appears to be one of them.

[mardigan]

I know we cant get Kamen, just like we cant get Ben. Even if the Pistons dont re sign him, some team will throw a ridicoulous amount of money at him. Bottom line we cant get him without giving up way to much

[mardigan]

And the Spurs, if we start bringing in our young guys, have many years left of being great. Tony will be a all star for many years to come, he practically carried us all season already this year

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, New Jersey had to give up so much for Vince, especially since he had all that leverage of not being able to walk away....

[ChumpDumper]

And the Spurs, if we start bringing in our young guys, have many years left of being great. Tony will be a all star for many years to come, he practically carried us all season already this yearThis team goes as far as Duncan takes them as long as Duncan takes them.

Period.

[mardigan]

Vince wasnt wanted, they would have taken almost anything for him, Ben is a completely different story

[Mavs<Spurs]

Ahh yes grasshopper, it is a difference in age. I know Nene has missed the last two seasons, but he is 22 or 23 compared to 31, 32. One player still has his bright future ahead of him while the others is soon to be wearing down. Nene wouldnt even be my first choice either so I dont even know why I am arguing about him. Wilcox is the guy I think


2 seasons at his age is a serious concern. Players who aren't that old have become nonfactors in the league do to being plagued by injuries.


Wilcox ?

I think that I read here that he would be expensive, unrealistic and he doesn't play good defense very often.

[mardigan]

This team goes as far as Duncan takes them as long as Duncan takes them.

Period.

People said the same thing about David untill we got Duncan. Now the shift is already happening with Tony, top 5 scorer in the paint this year, 1st time all star, improving jumpshot, only 24

[Mavs<Spurs]

People said the same thing about David untill we got Duncan. Now the shift is already happening with Tony, top 5 scorer in the paint this year, 1st time all star, improving jumpshot, only 24


It is difficult to see how anybody could really believe this.


At this point, rational argument and logic almost seems pointless.

[ChumpDumper]

People said the same thing about David untill we got Duncan.Wake me when we win the lottery again.

Or when Parker becomes unstoppable in the playoffs.

This is not a rebuilding year.

[mardigan]

Most people talking shit about Wilcox havent seen him play. He wouldnt be that expensive, would play great d next to Dunc, is 23, and last year when he got traded to the Sonics he averaged 14 and 8. Worth taking a shot on. And stop bringing up Nene, I was just using him as a example, maybe not the best example, but Im just saying youth is key

[ChumpDumper]

If we offer reasonable money to Wilcox, why wouldn't the Sonics match?

[mardigan]

It is difficult to see how anybody could really believe this.


At this point, rational argument and logic almost seems pointless.

We wouldnt have won 50 games this year without Tony. Tim and Manu were shadows of themselves during the regular season and Tony carried us through many games. Is it that hard to believe he will be our next great player?

[Mavs<Spurs]

Tony is young, has improved his jumpshot and will probably be an all star for many years to come.


He is not now and never will be good enough to take the Spurs to the championship level like Tim Duncan did.

Even David could not do it and David is a top 50 player of all time.

Tim is in my book a top 10 player of all time. Tony Parker, as good as he is and will be, may not be a hofer. He is unlikely to make top 50.

He is not the defender Tim is. He is not the offensive player that Tim is.

He does not make everybody else around him better the way that Tim does.

as Chumpdumper said, this team goes only as far as Tim Duncan takes it and no further.


If/when Tim declines significantly (in 3 or so years), Tony will not be good enough to get us a championship by making up the difference (Tim now - Tim then > Tony now - Tony at his best ).

That's just the way that it is.

Unless you are talking about Magic or Michael, in general, a top perimeter player < top big man
.

[mardigan]

If we offer reasonable money to Wilcox, why wouldn't the Sonics match?

The Sonics are loaded with bigs. They spent their last two 1st round draft picks on 20 year old centers ( Swift and Petro), and have already talked about giving Collison more playing time next year. They also have Fortson, Felix and Mikki Moore. Rashard Lewis in there too. They probably will resign him,he is a restricted fa, but wont compete with a big offer. It is a pipe dream as well, but maybe

[ChumpDumper]

Quit adding SFs to load your argument. I've seen as many Collison trade rumors as I gave reports they'll keep him.

Fortson? Mikki Moore?

:lmao
They probably will resign him,he is a restricted fa, but wont compete with a big offer.And our offer won't be big.

[mardigan]

I know that Tony will never be a Tim or David, but no one player has ever won it by themselves and I am banking on Tony, by the time Tim is declining, agreed, 3 years or so, we will have our next great player set and whoever they are combined with a savvy vet Tony will be enough

[mardigan]

Like I said pipe dream but more realistic than Ben. And you can call Rashard a sf all you want, but at 6-10 I also seem to remeber him guarding many a pf in the league

[ChumpDumper]

I don't remember Lewis guarding anyone. And it isn't more realistic than Ben. You're aiming really low if a Clipper castoff is your top choice.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Like I said pipe dream but more realistic than Ben. And you can call Rashard a sf all you want, but at 6-10 I also seem to remeber him guarding many a pf in the league



I agree no one player wins it by himself, but remember how hurt David was (back in 2003) and that Manu was on the bench and Tony was a project at best. Game 6 of Finals : 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks.

Who can replace those numbers. If Ian could on his best day give us half those numbers I would be impressed.

Tim is a 2 time regular season MVP, a 3 time Finals MVP, an all star every year (usually first team), usually first team defense all NBA,


It's just hard to see anyone coming down who, even combined with Tony, who is an all star caliber player, will be able to bring us a championship if / when Tim's play diminishes significantly.

Besides, your argument seemed to be that Tim would pass the torch on to Tony and that Tony would be able to carry the weight in the future when Tim declines that Tim did when Tony was so much of a project / weakness.

I like Tony, but I just can't see that. Besides he needs to improve his teammates and I don't think that he does that very well yet.


I have never thought of Rashard Lewis as a defender and certainly not a pf defender. I know that he is injury prone. He certainly is not the big that we need.

At times, he can shoot the 3 well. He could post small forwards up a little.

That's about it.

All star one time?

[mardigan]

Ill give you that one, Lewis dont do d, but the only reason Wilcox left was because he knew he would never start ahead of Brand. I know its hard to believe, but Wilcox is going to be really good. He was an 8th pick a couple years ago, and he was a key contributer on Marylands national championship team in 02 for what its worth. No one knows because he was stuck on the bench in Clipper land for 3 years

[ChumpDumper]

but the only reason Wilcox left was because he knew he would never start ahead of Brand.It wasn't his choice, just like it wouldn't be his choice if he stayed in Seattle.
I know its hard to believe, but Wilcox is going to be really good. He was an 8th pick a couple years ago, and he was a key contributer on Marylands national championship team in 02 for what its worth. No one knows because he was stuck on the bench in Clipper land for 3 yearsOk, i'm convinced -- Wilcox is the shit -- Seattle matches our offer.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Not trying to be difficult, here.


Just saying that we need a starting center or at least a starting big (if Tim plays center).

Ben fills that need. If we can get him. and we might as well try.


If doable, he looks better than the other names I am reading.


That's all.

[Mavs<Spurs]

It wasn't his choice, just like it wouldn't be his choice if he stayed in Seattle.Ok, i'm convinced -- Wilcox is the shit -- Seattle matches our offer.


Next move?

[mardigan]

Fuck Rashard Lewis, I wasnt saying we should get him, I was listing the Sonics fowards. And your right, Tony doesnt make his teammates better yet, but hopefully he will. Its hard for me to look past his scoring in the paint though, what other point can do that besides maybe Wade, and he isnt really a point. I know that Duncan is to me one of the top 3 - 5 players ever and that will never be replaced, I am just hoping that Tony will continue to grow until he can be our main guy, hoping

[mardigan]

Wilcox demanded a trade so it was his choice, and the Clips were willing too oblige. What about Pryzbilla? I saw him play maybe 10 - 15 times last season and he looked like a good rebounder and shot blocker

[mardigan]

And your right they probably will match our offer

[ChumpDumper]

Wilcox demanded a trade so it was his choice, and the Clips were willing too oblige.The Clips traded him. Thanks.

Pyrzbilla could be an option, especially since he's unrestricted. Call him plan B.

[mardigan]

The Clips traded him. Thanks.

Pyrzbilla could be an option, especially since he's unrestricted. Call him plan B.

Whats plan A, Ben?

[Mavs<Spurs]

I like old school point guards.


If he improves his teammates, then he can make a larger contribution.

Even at his present level, he is an all star and that's very good.


I still just think that you build your team around a great big, if you can.


James is an exception. Jordan was the goat.

I hope that you are right that as Tim declines, Tony's play improves correspondingly and we get another big that can make up the difference.
I hope so. I'm sure that you know that players like Tim Duncan don't come around very often. As great a player as David was, Tim is in a completely different class. One of the best to ever play the game.


And in the mean time, we need a starting big, preferably a center.

Other players are either equally unrealistic or not nearly as good or don't fill our need.

The ideal which is possible is signing Ben. So, we should try. Age/cost issues are not convincing to me so long as we can keep our core players.

imho.

[Slinkyman]

Pyrzbilla? we just dumped an over paid slow white guy why would we want another one?

[Mavs<Spurs]

Whats plan A, Ben?


Ring the bell, Johnny.

You win whatever's behind door number one.

:elephant :elephant :elephant

[ChumpDumper]

Up to now Joel hasn't been overpaid.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Pyrzbilla? we just dumped an over paid slow white guy why would we want another one?


Excellent question.


I will read with great interest the answer.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Up to now Joel hasn't been overpaid.


I see the caveat in there.


It appears that you think that he would require more money than he would be worth (at least to us).

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not sure. I do know he is far from a finished product or at least what we would want from a starting C. Maybe he's trainable, but we thought Nazr would be too.

Ben is plug and play.

[Slinkyman]

Up to now Joel hasn't been overpaid.

up to now Joel hasn't been a free agent

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm not sure. I do know he is far from a finished product or at least what we would want from a starting C. Maybe he's trainable, but we thought Nazr would be too.

Ben is plug and play.


Am I right in thinking Pryzbilla < = Rasho?


From what I have seen of him, he's not that great.

[strangeweather]

I'm not sure. I do know he is far from a finished product or at least what we would want from a starting C. Maybe he's trainable, but we thought Nazr would be too.
I think he'll be another mediocre center who will command a huge deal and give some team buyer's remorse in a year. Every once in a while, those guys work out well, but we've just gotten a couple of them off our cap, and I'm utterly unenthused at the prospect at signing another.

I'd rather go into this season with what we have than sign Przybilla to 5 years, $40 million -- and I wouldn't be suprised if that's the ballpark of the winning bid.

[ChumpDumper]

up to now Joel hasn't been a free agentSure he has.
Am I right in thinking Pryzbilla < = Rasho?Well, he's alot more athletic but he bites on every little juke or fake. Like I said he might be trainable. For the right price he wouldn't be bad in a platoon with Javtokas.

[Bruno]

After this trade, Barry and Oberto will likely be traded.

Barry for obvious reasons : need to be younger on the wing, redundant with Finley.
Oberto because we will likely get another big and we still have 5 bigs under contract for next season (Tim/Horry/Javtokas/Bonner/Oberto) . I don't see Spurs paying $2M for a guy who won't be on the active roster (the 6th big).

I can see Spurs going after a starting PF and having the following bigmen rotation :
PF : New guy/Bonner/Horry
C : Duncan/Javtokas/Horry
IR guy : a big center for the min who will be activated when we palyed against Shaq, Yao...

[SPARKY]

Another scenario...

Sign Javtokas with the LLE
Sign and trade EWilliams plus cash and/or pick to Charlotte for Jumaine Jones
Sign Claxton with the MLE
Trade Udrih and Barry to Indiana for Stephen Jackson

Starters
1 Parker
2 Jackson
3 Bowen
4 Duncan
5 Javtokas

Bench
1 Claxton
2 Ginobili
2/3 Finley
3 Jones
3/4 Bonner
4 Horry
5 Oberto

IR
1 vet
2/3 rookie
4/5 vet

[picnroll]

I wonder if Bonner's acquisition doesn't make Horry a trade candidate? Horry could be a nice piece for a team that feels like they're about to make some noise like a Chicago or Orlando. He's that big who can stretch the defense, add versatility, can provide veteran leadership, and he has a buyout on his contract after next year. For the Spurs, though he came up big in '05, two out of the last three playoffs he's been a weak link in an elimination series.

[SPARKY]

I wonder if Bonner's acquisition doesn't make Horry a trade candidate? Horry could be a nice piece for a team that feels like they're about to make some noise like a Chicago or Orlando. He's that big who can stretch the defense, add versatility, can provide veteran leadership, and he has a buyout on his contract after next year. For the Spurs, though he came up big in '05, two out of the last three playoffs he's been a weak link in an elimination series.

Horry was a weak link in '04 against the most physical frontcourt in human history. You can't really fault him for that. As for '06, it's not like any other Spurs bigman outside of Duncan was that useful. Horry played well in the Grizzlies series in '04 and then the Kings series in '06 which preceded those two aforementioned elimination series. Horry was the shit in '05 throughout the postseason. It's the NBA. It's about matchups. Horry is still awesome to have against traditional lineups. This year's postseason seems to have agitated him. I'd rather have him as the 12th man than the likely alternative. You also have to factor in that TD is rather comfortable with him as a teammate and you do need some stability. You also need someone who doesn't get shook in pressure situations.

[picnroll]

Horry admit he was too old, too slow for small ball. If Horry can't play small ball that really cuts down on his usefulness, particularly in playoffs when you run into the better teams, particulalry in the Western Conference.

[SPARKY]

Horry admit he was too old, too slow for small ball. If Horry can't play small ball that really cuts down on his usefulness, particularly in playoffs when you run into the better teams, particulalry in the Western Conference.

You still have teams with conventional lineups. Had the Spurs faced Miami in the Finals you can bet that Horry would've seen a lot of minutes and done well. You don't drop everyone just because they don't fit a particular style. The Spurs are already on track to drop both Nesterovic and Mohammed. You need a roster that can match up with the variety of styles you will see in the NBA.

[SPARKY]

I think a common myth is that Horry is a small ball power forward. Horry is not. Horry you use to match up against more traditional frontcourts because his range and athleticism tends to be better than the average bigman in the post.

[picnroll]

I'm not saying Horry doesn't have value to the team. I am saying the Spurs have certain potentially valueable trade assets to try to retool the team with and overcome weak areas. The addition of Bonner and his outside shot just took away a little of Horry's value to the team and made him a little more expendable in the retooling process.

[picnroll]

I think a common myth is that Horry is a small ball power forward. Horry is not. Horry you use to match up against more traditional frontcourts because his range and athleticism tends to be better than the average bigman in the post.
Horry was having trouble staying in fornt of Dirk. That wouldn't have been a problem for Horry a few years ago. It wasn't a problem for Haslem.

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't see the Spurs starting the season with either Javtokas or Bonner as a starter. More importantly, I can't see Pop allowing the Spurs to start the season with either of those guys getting starter's minutes. All of that fuels my belief that something will happen with the bigs before this offseason ends, whether that's resigning Nazr or making a deal to get another big. I'm convinced that there will be a veteran, legitimate big man who will start alongside Duncan at either center or at PF, but it won't be either Javtokas or Bonner.

[mardigan]

Nazr is gone, and we will be better off for it. We will just have to trade for someone, because I dont see either f those guys starting either, unless Javtokas is a lot better than we think

[bigdog]

i actually think Javtokas could start in this league. hes definitely strong and big enough to compete with the leagues best centers. but he is unexperienced in this league. get a solid center to keep things straight down low, and javtokas will be starting in a few years. or like i have said before. Duncan at center, and try to get Drew Gooden at PF

[WalterBenitez]

Besides speculations the only fact is that Rasho is gone, am I right?

[FromWayDowntown]

i actually think Javtokas could start in this league. hes definitely strong and big enough to compete with the leagues best centers. but he is unexperienced in this league. get a solid center to keep things straight down low, and javtokas will be starting in a few years. or like i have said before. Duncan at center, and try to get Drew Gooden at PF

Whether the Spurs are downplaying Javtokas for the sake of keeping expectations low or have some genuine reservations about him, I'm fairly certain that when the powers-that-be have commented on Javtokas, they see him as a rotation player and not a starter. If he ends up being Malik Rose-ish, the Spurs will have done well; but a Malik Rose-ish player doesn't start regularly for a team with title aspirations.

[MoSpur]

Do You Think Ben Wallace Will Be A Kevin Willis Type Player As Long As Longevity Goes? Another Words, Will Be Effective Up To The Age Of 38 Or So?

[mardigan]

No, I think he will burn out rather quickly considering how much he has had to play over the last couple of years. Plus KWill was 7-1 and ripped. Ben is ripped too but you have to wonder if him being 6-9 and playing center will wear his body down even faster

[mardigan]

And we should trade Williams to the Knicks, and they could sign and trade us Ariza, he could be are next Bruce

[ducks]

williams for frye

[FromWayDowntown]

And we should trade Williams to the Knicks, and they could sign and trade us Ariza, he could be are next Bruce

Are the Knicks going to reacquire Ariza from the Magic? They traded Ariza to Orlando in the Steve Francis deal.

[mardigan]

Shit I forgot about that, I guess he would just have to be a free agent signing then. Williams for David Lee then

[FromWayDowntown]

Shit I forgot about that, I guess he would just have to be a free agent signing then. Williams for David Lee then

I think you're 100% wrong if you think: (1) the Knicks are looking for immediate cap relief; or (2) a contract like Williams' would have any real impact on any desire to seek cap relief by that organization.

[MoSpur]

The Knicks Are That Dumb.

[mardigan]

They would probably trade us Frye for P.J., they dont know what they are doing. And Williams contract certainly wouldnt hurt, its up after this year right?

[infinite styles]

Anybody know the website that shows the players contracts and when they end and what not?

[strangeweather]

Anybody know the website that shows the players contracts and when they end and what not?
There's more than one, but here's one:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

We could package Williams, Bonner, and Oberto for D. Howard

[strangeweather]

We could package Williams, Bonner, and Oberto for D. Howard
We might need to throw in Beno before Orlando does that deal. :rolleyes

[TheTruth]

We could package Williams, Bonner, and Oberto for D. Howard
I think we'd have to throw in the riverwalk if we wanted to get D. Howard.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I think we'd have to throw in the riverwalk if we wanted to get D. Howard.

dont have to, we can wait till his a FA in 08/09, spurs td/gino/tp contracts expire that season also :D:D we be 25-40mill under cap

[dbestpro]

The Spurs need to address an offensive inside player as they have no in the paint offense when Duncan goes to the bench. Javtokas does not address this need. Scola does but for some reason is not on the Spurs radar.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs need to address an offensive inside player as they have no in the paint offense when Duncan goes to the bench. Javtokas does not address this need. Scola does but for some reason is not on the Spurs radar.

To be fair, it's been years since the Spurs had any in-the-paint offense other than Duncan. You might say Malik Rose, and Robinson got some post-ups. So at least since 2003.

[beirmeistr]

There's more than one, but here's one:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
Strangeweather, I wasn't the one who requested this info, but thanks for posting your reply. It is absolutely scary how many unproductive players are getting so many millions per year.

[infinite styles]

There's more than one, but here's one:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Thanks for the link. I wanted to see how much Sam Dalembert was making to see if the Spurs could swing a deal for him but that fool is making too much. What the hell were the Sixers smoking when they signed him to that deal. :smokin