Ultimate Pipe Dream: Signing Ben Wallace [Archive]

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 08:03 PM

I know it's not very realistic, but

Imagine the possibility if we acquired Ben Wallace!!!

Best defensive team of all time!!!

Tim- one of the two best post defenders in the NBA
Ben-the other best post defender in the NBA
Bruce-best perimeter defender in the league
Manu-very good perimeter defender
Tony- still improving, but he steals more and he did stop Rip

We would be a great rebounding team.

Ben could shut down Dirk.

No second chance points!

Great transition defense!

And I still believe that defense does win championships.

It wouldn't be hard to see that team winning it all.

jman3000

06-22-2006, 08:06 PM

lmao @ pipe dream. a staple word over at laker sites trying to figure out how they can somehow trade devean george, chris mihm, and some picks for kevin garnett.

jman3000

06-22-2006, 08:07 PM

but if it did happen, and we could somehow afford it, then yes, it would be an exemplary defensive team.

E20

06-22-2006, 08:09 PM

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 08:10 PM

but if it did happen, and we could somehow afford it, then yes, it would be an exemplary defensive team.

examplary: are you a school teacher or something?

dknights411

06-22-2006, 08:10 PM

jman3000

06-22-2006, 08:10 PM

jman3000

06-22-2006, 08:11 PM

examplary: are you a school teacher or something?

jman = not a school teacher

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 08:25 PM

I had a nice lineup for the Spurs in NBA Live 2004. I maxed out everybodys stats and my team was"

C-Shaq
PF-Dirk
SF-Kevin Garnett
SG-Tim Duncan
PG-Yao

Bench
Manu
Tony
Bruce
Hedo

Now that would be a good team right there. If we could make the trades though.

sounds realistic. Why not.

I hadn't really thought of Yao as a point guard before, but he's going to be able to post on any other guard pretty well.

Tim as the shooting guard is an interesting thought.

Now, you might also consider it

C-Shaq
PF-Yao
SF-Tim Duncan
SG-Dirk Nowinski
PG-KG

This is a more realistic lineup, imo.

Another advantage is that these Spurs are probably a better free throw shooting team than our current lineup.

Pretty good defensively, but a little slow in the interior. Not sure how great a defender Dirk is, especially on the perimeter. Since even if they got past him, they would still face Yao and Shaq and possibly Timmy, it wouldn't really matter that much.

Perhaps we play zone.

The other team gets no rebounds at all.

We get all the shot blocks we want. However, the key is staying out of foul trouble.

With that height, we could probably see well enough over everybody that ball pressure would not be too much of a problem and if we got the ball over half court and got a shot up, we would shoot about 80 %.

The other team has AI, Kobe, Diaw, Stoudamire and Marion.

Like the ultimate small ball lineup vs big ball lineup.

They say speed kills, but in this case speed would be bludgeoned to death.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 08:31 PM

Now, returning to the original pipe dream:

while it's probably not likely and probably not going to happen, it isn't so utterly impossible that the possibility cannot be considered.

The other teams are interesting, but so utterly impossible that we would all say without fear of contradiction that they will never happen other than on NBA live.

It's not likely that we will acquire Ben, but it could happen. It is not completely out of the question or impossible.

And if it does happen, we would probably win it all and pretty easily.

jman3000

06-22-2006, 08:37 PM

the chances of us signing are slim unless we somehow get the cap salary fairy to get us under. realistically we just can't afford him without giving up something we value (ie tony or manu)

ChumpDumper

06-22-2006, 08:42 PM

Yeah, Toronto sure got equal value for Carter.

And he wasn't even a free agent.

bendmz

06-22-2006, 08:47 PM

just what are the stats the defensive player of the year gets rated on ? blocked shots? rebounds? what?
Bruce did more than what any defensive player of the year did. yet no one put it in the books. Bruce would " SHUT YOU DOWN!" how many times did force a star player to change their game and then complain how Bruce played too close, is there a stat for that? "Bear Hug Defense"...... That warrants RESPECT!!!!
Bruce Bowen is truly the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS !!!!!

ChumpDumper

06-22-2006, 08:48 PM

Ok, but I still wouldn't mind having number 2 on the team in that case.

mardigan

06-22-2006, 08:51 PM

I would rather trade for Chris Kamen

Darrin

06-22-2006, 08:51 PM

Yeah, Toronto sure got equal value for Carter.

And he wasn't even a free agent.

He quit on the team, and the Raptors were desperate to improve.

texasqb2

06-22-2006, 08:52 PM

It could easily happen, sign and trade Nazr, Barry, Oberto, Scola

mardigan

06-22-2006, 08:55 PM

4 players for a 30 plus year old undersized center in the west? We could get more and become deeper by trading those players in pairs or individually

ChumpDumper

06-22-2006, 08:56 PM

He quit on the team, and the Raptors were desperate to improve.The Raptors didn't improve. That's a joke.

And Ben can quit on the Pistons by saying he won't come back. If that is the case, Joe can let him go for absolutely nothing or try to work a deal with one of the teams Ben wants to go to.

Really, do you think letting him go for nothing is absolutely the best thing to do?

Darrin

06-22-2006, 08:57 PM

It could easily happen, sign and trade Nazr, Barry, Oberto, Scola

Sure, the Pistons would do that deal.

ChumpDumper

06-22-2006, 08:57 PM

4 players for a 30 plus year old undersized center in the west?Well, Michael Finley was our starting center to close out the season....

SA210

06-22-2006, 08:58 PM

Bruce Bowen is truly the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS !!!!!
I have been saying this for the past several years.
He's been robbed badly.

I am for getting Ben Wallace, but i don't think Pop is that creative to even think about considering it.

mardigan

06-22-2006, 09:01 PM

Do we really need another center that cant score?

E20

06-22-2006, 09:05 PM

Ben wasn't very happy during the playoffs. Saunders is no Larry Brown and Ben isn't the first case where one of the players had a problem with the head coach. Ben is a FA next year right? If so, then do the Pistons have Bird rights and is he gonna be Restricted (probably). If Ben really didn't wanna stay with the Pistons, I'm guessing a sign trade involving Barry, Nazr, Oberto would might happen. I'm not sure if the contracts will even out and come through though.

jman3000

06-22-2006, 09:08 PM

Sure, the Pistons would do that deal.

If Ben publicly said there would be no way he's resigning with Detroit, what kind of package, from any team, would you be willing to accept?

strangeweather

06-22-2006, 09:28 PM

Do we really need another center that cant score?
He may not score, but I don't think we would get outrebounded again any time soon.

And woe be to the poor bastard who manages to get past Bowen and has to try to navigate between Scylla and Charybdis inside to get to the basket.

Good times.

strangeweather

06-22-2006, 09:33 PM

It could easily happen, sign and trade Nazr, Barry, Oberto, Scola
There's no scenario in which we put together a package and Detroit says "Wow, that's even value for Ben Wallace." Not going to happen.

But when DA left to Portland, we took Steve Smith to do the sign and trade, because it meant we at least got something.

If Wallace wants to resign with the Pistons, he will. If he doesn't, I expect Dumars will take what he can get.

It might be something more like Barry + Williams + a pick, depending on how the salaries work out.

Mr.Bottomtooth

06-22-2006, 09:33 PM

Plus he would dunk the shit out of everybody with alley-oops.

Darrin

06-22-2006, 09:39 PM

If Ben publicly said there would be no way he's resigning with Detroit, what kind of package, from any team, would you be willing to accept?

I'd take Manu, Nazr, and a 1st round pick. If Ben Wallace won't go to the Spurs for that deal, or the Spurs won't give him up, I'd tell Big Ben he can sign for the Mid-Level Exception.

Darrin

06-22-2006, 09:41 PM

Plus he would dunk the shit out of everybody with alley-oops.

He feeds off of double-teams and what is going to be the natural reaction to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker? He can run the floor. He can switch on the pick-and-pop. Quite Frankly, he is everything the Spurs are missing.

strangeweather

06-22-2006, 09:44 PM

I'd take Manu, Nazr, and a 1st round pick. If Ben Wallace won't go to the Spurs for that deal, or the Spurs won't give him up, I'd tell Big Ben he can sign for the Mid-Level Exception.
Understandable.

I suspect Joe may be more pragmatic than you are, though I could be wrong.

jman3000

06-22-2006, 09:47 PM

That deal would be close to if not a max deal ... does Ben really think he's gonna get it?

ducks

06-22-2006, 10:33 PM

I would rather get wade when he is fa then ben

Leetonidas

06-22-2006, 10:54 PM

I doubt the Spurs are going to throw max money at him, but they will throw like 3 years and 28 million at him, you can believe that.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 10:57 PM

I doubt the Spurs are going to throw max money at him, but they will throw like 3 years and 28 million at him, you can believe that.

Not to be stupid, but how much is max money?

Leetonidas

06-22-2006, 10:58 PM

Isn't it something like 7 years and 76 million or something? I'm not entirely sure...but I know it's more than 15 million a season.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Isn't it something like 7 years and 76 million or something? I'm not entirely sure...but I know it's more than 15 million a season.

that sounds about right.

Costs.

but you get what you pay for.

and the man has a family to feed.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:06 PM

I doubt the Spurs are going to throw max money at him, but they will throw like 3 years and 28 million at him, you can believe that.

Now, if Ben can just find a way in his heart to live with that offer.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:08 PM

I know he won 1 ring already, but he would know that he is on a team that is the prohibitive favorite to win it all (with him at starting center is there much doubt that Spurs will win it all?- I can't see how they wouldn't win it all with him)..

He would be on his type of team.

I think that he would get along with everyone.

He is Pop's type of player.

Leetonidas

06-22-2006, 11:09 PM

ducks

06-22-2006, 11:10 PM

pop players do not go to the media and bad mouth their bosses and tell them how to do their job

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:10 PM

And he did sound pretty frustrated with Flip and how the Pistons didn't practice defense any more and their loss to the Heat couldn't have improved that feeling much.

And I blame Flip for the team's loss of defense and premature exit from the playoffs.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:12 PM

Ben needs to use his head. The only team that's going to give him max money is a stupid team, and they will not be contending for shit in that case.

Timmy needs to call up Ben and have a chat with him. Because if Ben came here for 3 years, we'd have 3 more titles.

Exactly.

He doesn't want to go to a team like Atlanta or Toronto (oh yeah they got Rasho).

3 years with Spurs = 3 more rings.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:15 PM

pop players do not go to the media and bad mouth their bosses and tell them how to do their job

I know what you are saying, ducks, but the defense on the Pistons was not nearly as good as last year and it was the same players. The difference was the coach.

Ben knew that Flip was the problem.

With Pop, Ben would know that was not the case.

And under LB, Ben didn't do this. And that was because LB taught defense.

As does Pop.

So, Ben spoke the truth.

Leetonidas

06-22-2006, 11:18 PM

Well, as someone mentioned earlier, keep in mind that Ben has won a ring already, and the two reasons free agents sign elsewhere are for rings and money, and he has the former.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:20 PM

I agree a lot with what Barkley has to say: you can't take a team of offensive minded players and expect them to all of a sudden play great defense.

If a player starts as an offensive minded player, it is rare that he suddenly develops the passion and the discipline and the study and the hard work and engages in the film watching sessions and reads the scouting reports in order to become a defensive stopper.

You can teach shooting (though not touch). You can teach footwork to a certain extent.

Defense is largely a character issue. And Ben has defense in abundance.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:22 PM

Well, as someone mentioned earlier, keep in mind that Ben has won a ring already, and the two reasons free agents sign elsewhere are for rings and money, and he has the former.

I know that you're right.

Maybe he will be interested in what Shaq is interested in "Legacy".

It is just hope. Don't extinguish my hope, please.

Mavs<Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:27 PM

Pistons<Spurs,

what are the likely outcomes of Ben with the Pistons?

Pistons < Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:36 PM

And under LB, Ben didn't do this. And that was because LB taught defense.

As does Pop.

So, Ben spoke the truth.

Actually the rest of the team and 'insiders' who routinely are at practices said that they actually practiced defense more under Flip than when LB or Carlisle was there. They said they really never practiced Defense when LB was there at all...."they just went out and did it" in game.

So basically Ben was full of it.

Pistons < Spurs

06-22-2006, 11:39 PM

Pistons<Spurs,

what are the likely outcomes of Ben with the Pistons?

I believe he'll resign. I don't think he wants to go anywhere else.

My fear is that he now has a Drew Rosenhouse type of agent who is really pushing for big money.

I don't blame him for looking to se what offers are out there.but at the end of the day I expect he'll still be a Piston.

Mr.Bottomtooth

06-22-2006, 11:57 PM

I'm still going with my trade of Nazr and Fabricio and 2-3 first round picks for Wallace. Now that we have Eric Williams we can throw him in too. Probably Beno so we can focus on Speedy.

Mr.Bottomtooth

06-23-2006, 12:24 AM

T Park

06-23-2006, 12:31 AM

Getting Ben wallace is as realistic as signing Jermaine O'Neal.

SA210

06-23-2006, 12:39 AM

Getting Ben wallace is as realistic as signing Jermaine O'Neal.
This is the kind of thinking that makes it impossible.

Slinkyman

06-23-2006, 01:22 AM

This is how I see it:
C Mohammed/Oberto
PF Duncan/Bonner/Horry
SF Bowen/Finley
SG Manu/Barry
PG Parker/Beno

Waive Williams
Trade Mohammed,Oberto, and Beno and 2 first round picks for Ben Wallace
Sign Javtokas
Sign Speedy
Trade Barry For Macijauskas and JR Smith

New Roster

C Wallace
PF Duncan
SF Bowen
SG Manu
PG Parker
6 Finley
7 Javtokas
8 JR Smith
9 Speedy
10 Bonner
11 Horry
12 Macijuaskas
IR1 Marks
IR2 Sanders
IR3

Ain't nuthin to it but to do it.

you can't trade that many 1st round picks, i believe a team must have at least one pick every 2 years or something to that effect. They reason we were able to trade 2 picks to NY is because one of those belonged to PHX

You're making it too hard, to get Ben we'd need a dumb 3rd team to take Nazr plus barry or whoever else we package. Chicago anyone?

Nazr + Barry + Scola to Chi town
Ben to SA
Tyson + Sweetney to DET

Mr. Body

06-23-2006, 01:27 AM

If the Pistons gives us Wallace for our detritus, there will be riots in Detroit all over again.

Sure, all it takes is positive thinking. Unicorns are real, too, just like on the posters in your bedroom.

SA210

06-23-2006, 01:57 AM

Sure, all it takes is positive thinking. Unicorns are real, too, just like on the posters in your bedroom.
great contribution :tu

Mr. Body

06-23-2006, 01:59 AM

great contribution :tu

You're welcome. I don't want to suggest I've been in any of y'all's bedrooms. It's mostly speculation. :angel

FreshPrince22

06-23-2006, 02:03 AM

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

T Park

06-23-2006, 02:24 AM

Don't worry Prince.

The delusional here, DO NOT, represent us all........

Drill Instructor

06-23-2006, 02:30 AM

Don't worry Prince.

The delusional here, DO NOT, represent us all........

Leave it to the disgusting fat body to put in his two fucking cents!

Let me ask you a question Private T Pork!

Aren't you supposed to be at the fair fucking eating all the cotton candy or giving rides to a whole bunch of kids on your fucking back?!

Get the fuck out of here Private! You make me sick!

ChumpDumper

06-23-2006, 03:38 AM

The only way we could ever get Ben is through free agency. The Pistons would NEVER trade him. And if they did, the least likely team they would trade him to is us. I thought you people were smarter than that.
Rasho will NEVER be dealt this year. Who wants his contract? Bueller? Bueller?

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1012383&postcount=5

Thanks, Kreskin....

violentkitten

06-23-2006, 03:41 AM

hey man, wallace can go to the bulls without the pistons getting anything in return. would detroit want him to end up in their conference kicking their ass 4 times a year or out of it? if you take wallace from detroit and put him on the bulls thats a serious reordering in the conference.

Hoy

06-23-2006, 03:55 AM

The real Wallace I want is Gerald Wallace. He fills more needs and better future, a young player who is blooming. Only reservation is his propensity for injury. I think he can be had for Tony parker type money. But how to get him, I've no idea. No idea how we can clear the money, either.

ChumpDumper

06-23-2006, 03:58 AM

Gerald is not available.

polandprzem

06-23-2006, 04:13 AM

Leave it to the disgusting fat body to put in his two fucking cents!

Let me ask you a question Private T Pork!

Aren't you supposed to be at the fair fucking eating all the cotton candy or giving rides to a whole bunch of kids on your fucking back?!

Get the fuck out of here Private! You make me sick!

WTF?

GTF out of here with this kind of comments

Bruno

06-23-2006, 06:43 AM

The only way we could ever get Ben is through free agency. The Pistons would NEVER trade him. And if they did, the least likely team they would trade him to is us. I thought you people were smarter than that.

I thought that you were smarter to understand that Ben isn't a Piston this summer.
He is an unrestricted free agent.

If he doesn't want to re-sign with Detroit and want to sign with Spurs, he will likely contact Pistons and say : "You have 24 hours to work on a S&T or I will sign with Chicago".
It's either Spurs' package or nothing.

If Ben want to leave Detroit (or if he asks too much money for them), Detroit is in a very bad situation.

Obstructed_View

06-23-2006, 07:02 AM

WTF?

GTF out of here with this kind of comments
You have to imagine it with R Lee Ermey's voice. :lol

polandprzem

06-23-2006, 08:00 AM

You have to imagine it with R Lee Ermey's voice. :lol

Well I think I don't need to

Obstructed_View

06-23-2006, 08:45 AM

Well I think I don't need to
Well I think you do...

mabber

06-23-2006, 09:57 AM

The Mavs are working on trading Damp so they can sign Wallace.

polandprzem

06-23-2006, 10:10 AM

Well I think you do...

Well I think I don't

Mavs<Spurs

06-23-2006, 10:12 AM

The Mavs are working on trading Damp so they can sign Wallace.

That would be a seriously great pickup for you all.

Don't do it.

But who will take Damp with his contract. How will you be able to afford it?

NBA Junkie

06-23-2006, 10:16 AM

I had a nice lineup for the Spurs in NBA Live 2004. I maxed out everybodys stats and my team was"

C-Shaq
PF-Dirk
SF-Kevin Garnett
SG-Tim Duncan
PG-Yao

Bench
Manu
Tony
Bruce
Hedo

Now that would be a good team right there. If we could make the trades though.

Dude, you'd be in luxury tax hell with that squad. Never mind the fact that you'd need some of those stars to accept the veterans minimum in order to keep salary cap requirements.

Mr.Bottomtooth

06-23-2006, 10:16 AM

Nazr + Barry + Scola to Chi town
Ben to SA
Tyson + Sweetney to DET

That works too. :tu

ABDENOUR POWER

06-23-2006, 10:23 AM

mabber

06-23-2006, 10:26 AM

That would be a seriously great pickup for you all.

Don't do it.

But who will take Damp with his contract. How will you be able to afford it?

I can't see anyone taking on Damp & his contract but if someone did, I'm pretty sure Cuban would pay the luxury tax if he could sign Wallace for less than 5 years (which would be another obstacle). Bottom line...it ain't gonna happen.

1Parker1

06-23-2006, 10:32 AM

Ben Wallace ain't going nowhere. Pistons will pay him whatever the hell he wants.

SenorSpur

06-23-2006, 10:47 AM

Ben Wallace ain't going nowhere. Pistons will pay him whatever the hell he wants.

I believe that to be true also.

Marklar MM

06-23-2006, 10:52 AM

Who knows...him and Billups are both rumored to want max contracts. I don't think Davidson will be to happy paying out that much cash.

mabber

06-23-2006, 10:56 AM

Who knows...him and Billups are both rumored to want max contracts. I don't think Davidson will be to happy paying out that much cash.

From the outside, Wallace doesn't seem to be that happy in his current situation (having Flip as coach and not getting enough touches on offense). I really don't see how the Pistons will make it thru another season with Flip as coach w/o imploding. Neither Wallaces seem to like him and Sheed has a way of being a team cancer when he's not happy. I could be way off base here but that's how it appears from way down south.

Bob Lanier

06-23-2006, 11:04 AM

Actually the rest of the team and 'insiders' who routinely are at practices said that they actually practiced defense more under Flip than when LB or Carlisle was there. They said they really never practiced Defense when LB was there at all...."they just went out and did it" in game.

So basically Ben was full of it.
So, Chauncey "In Flip's system I'm an MVP candidate" Billups and Chris McCosky's ilk in the media? Somehow I don't quite believe anything either of them say, especially since the only reason Detroit's an above-average defensive team says otherwise.

But, no, there's no way the Pistons would trade Ben to the Spurs, especially since Flip's boy Rasho isn't an option. :lol

Slinkyman

06-23-2006, 11:39 AM

:lol

Sorry to burst some of you Spurs fans bubbles, but.....

Dumars is NOT stupid enough to trade Ben to the Spurs. You really think he'd set up the Spurs for greatness like that, just to get a few of your bench players in return? If Ben is going to go to SA, he'd have to do it as a FA, NOT through a trade. And simply through free agency, the Spurs cannot offer nearly enough money to lure him in.

Sorry.

Dumars, the same guy who drafted some white stiff over DWade, Melo, AND Chris Bosh? Is this why you pistons fans hate Wade so much? Because he SHOULD be wearing pistons red white and blue?

Mavs<Spurs

06-23-2006, 01:45 PM

I can't see anyone taking on Damp & his contract but if someone did, I'm pretty sure Cuban would pay the luxury tax if he could sign Wallace for less than 5 years (which would be another obstacle). Bottom line...it ain't gonna happen.

If it did, you all would be the definite favorites to win it all.

Can't have that. So, I hope it doesn't happen.

Winnipeg_Spur

06-23-2006, 01:57 PM

I can't see anyone taking on Damp & his contract but if someone did, I'm pretty sure Cuban would pay the luxury tax if he could sign Wallace for less than 5 years (which would be another obstacle). Bottom line...it ain't gonna happen.
You guys have salaries of about 76 Million right now (and that's before dealing with Terry or KVH) so even if you could just give away Damp and his contract you still wouldn't have the capspace to sign Wallace outright (unless he accepted the MLE). The only way you could get Big Ben is the same as the Spurs, a sign and trade. Not going to happen, for either team, I'm afraid.

mardigan

06-23-2006, 02:06 PM

Yeah I just dont see the Pistons letting him go, unless he truly hates it there, and Joe D definately doesnt want to help shift more power to the west. Not going to happen, Id rather bring in someone young anyway

mabber

06-23-2006, 02:14 PM

You guys have salaries of about 76 Million right now (and that's before dealing with Terry or KVH) so even if you could just give away Damp and his contract you still wouldn't have the capspace to sign Wallace outright (unless he accepted the MLE). The only way you could get Big Ben is the same as the Spurs, a sign and trade. Not going to happen, for either team, I'm afraid.

Cap space? That doesn't apply to us as we have Cuban's 2-3 billion dollars at our disposal to pay the luxury tax. :spin

Winnipeg_Spur

06-23-2006, 02:19 PM

Cap space? That doesn't apply to us as we have Cuban's 2-3 billion dollars at our disposal to pay the luxury tax. :spin
Uh, no matter how much money your owner has you still need cap space to sign other teams' free agents. Maybe you should read up a little on the CBA. :smokin