“Not just another I hate Cuban thread”….

[ShackO]

There is no shortage of Cuban haters out there but I think many are starting to see that “yea he is an ass, but perhaps he can be a useful ass, @ least @ times”….

Some of his antics and comments are pretty stupid but I gotta give him props if he is getting under the skin of david fuxing stern and shinning a light on some of the unorthodox and dictatorial practices in stern’s nba……..

In most corporations it is called whistle blowing and is praised. In the stern’s nba it is called making trouble (just like it use to be called in the rest of the corporate world)… The Van Gundy’s of the world can be fined into silence and submission but not the pudgy guy with bad teeth sitting behind the Mavs bench…

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason…. Excuses, justifications and numbers such as 5-7% are missed called according to the liar stern………. (He never address the fact that not all “missed calls” are equal in impact on the outcome of the game…….. Also they have no problem going back and fining and suspending someone but are unable to even apologize for doing their job poorly and affecting the outcome..)

I wonder if he will ever be called on it and asked to substantiate those phantom numbers…….. ????? I am sure any two-bit nba pundit with access to the tapes would be able to rub his nose in his numbers in short order…..

One last point that sickens me is how stern has gotten away with selling the lie that to question or complain about the job he and his employees are doing is not in the “best interest of the game”………. IMO this is equivalent to telling victims not to resist their victimizer as they will only make it worse………. It’s going to get worse anyway so you probably have nothing to loose…………..


FUCK david stern………………….:pctoss

[mabber]

There is no shortage of Cuban haters out there but I think many are starting to see that “yea he is an ass, but perhaps he can be a useful ass, @ least @ times”….

Some of his antics and comments are pretty stupid but I gotta give him props if he is getting under the skin of david fuxing stern and shinning a light on some of the unorthodox and dictatorial practices in stern’s nba……..

In most corporations it is called whistle blowing and is praised. In the stern’s nba it is called making trouble (just like it use to be called in the rest of the corporate world)… The Van Gundy’s of the world can be fined into silence and submission but not the pudgy guy with bad teeth sitting behind the Mavs bench…

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason…. Excuses, justifications and numbers such as 5-7% are missed called according to the liar stern………. (He never address the fact that not all “missed calls” are equal in impact on the outcome of the game…….. Also they have no problem going back and fining and suspending someone but are unable to even apologize for doing their job poorly and affecting the outcome..)

I wonder if he will ever be called on it and asked to substantiate those phantom numbers…….. ????? I am sure any two-bit nba pundit with access to the tapes would be able to rub his nose in his numbers in short order…..

One last point that sickens me is how stern has gotten away with selling the lie that to question or complain about the job he and his employees are doing is not in the “best interest of the game”………. IMO this is equivalent to telling victims not to resist their victimizer as they will only make it worse………. It’s going to get worse anyway so you probably have nothing to loose…………..


FUCK david stern………………….:pctoss

Mike Mathis (former NBA ref) was on radio the other day and he said it was "scary" how correct Cuban was about the poor state of affairs that NBA officiating is (a lot of the details). He said Cuban's stats, etc. that he's been bringing to the league are right on. I think the league wants to and is trying to make things better but they would just prefer Cuban not contiually calling them out on stuff in public. Hey, if Cuban doesn't care about what people think about him (it's obvious that he doesn't) then I'm totally on board with him ranting and raving to get something done about the officiating. All he's really asking for is some more accountability (refs) just like what's expected of any other employee of a corporation. Plus, more training for these refs. Mike Mathis says the league still uses the "buddy system" when hiring some of these refs. A lot of qualified refs are getting passed up cuz someone "knows someone" in the right place.

[DirkAB]

IMO the officiating in the NBA is far worse than any other major American sport. Hands down………….. To be in anyway employed in stern’s nba and utter those words is seen as equal to treason….


I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

[picnroll]

Funny how very few Mavs fans were complaining about the refs after game one of the Spurs series. Mostly they were just telling everyone to stop whining and occassionally complaining about the lack of fairness and conistency in disqualifying players like Terry by the league office. Somehow after the Miami series poor reffing has become a major issue. Any ideas why that is?

[baseline bum]

Fuck Cuban. He masquerades as a voice of reform, but he's just a whiner who complains when all the calls don't go his way. He never said a word about Dirk shooting 24 FT in game 3 or the phantom foul on Bruce in game 4. You all in Dallas are fucking retards for thinking Cuban gives a shit about the integrity of the game.

[bulletedge]

You're right...FUCK CUBAN. But if you Spurs fans think the Spurs got bad calls in the series against Dallas- then you admit that bad calls are prevalent in the NBA. So lets step back from mere Mavs-bashing, "Mavs fans are whiners", etc. and try to look at the situation more objectively.

I wonder about an organization- any type of organization- where the membership is not allowed to voice ANY criticism of the organization. Let's see....that was true in Hitler's Germany, Soviet Union during the Cold War, Castro's Cuba, and on & on & on...

Rather than continually trying to muzzle Cuban, I wish that Stern had the balls to allow the players and coaches to comment on the officiating- or anything else to do with the NBA. To ban all even mildly negative commentary is almost to admit the weakness of the organization...or the guilt.

Denial of open and critical dialogue results in unilateral and unchecked authority by the leadership of the organization. Did I just describe a dictatorship?

Rather than exerting all of their energy in suppression of debate and deflection of criticism the NBA would be better served by addressing the issues raised and correcting them. Otherwise, it will eventually die....just like all dictatorships eventually die.

[bulletedge]

Fuck Cuban. He masquerades as a voice of reform, but he's just a whiner who complains when all the calls don't go his way. He never said a word about Dirk shooting 24 FT in game 3 or the phantom foul on Bruce in game 4. You all in Dallas are fucking retards for thinking Cuban gives a shit about the integrity of the game.

Frankly, I don't give a shit what Cuban thinks about anything. But I DO give a shit about watching quality basketball where the players determine the outcome of the game.

Wouldn't you, as a Spurs fan, have preferred to have the players determine the outcome of the Mavs-Spurs series this year?

[picnroll]

Cuban brags one night on national TV about how he got the rules to be changed so there was no more "Riley ball" and and players like Wade, Lebron and Dirk (:lol) could take it to the hole without being roughed up. Then the next night he's bitching about too many cheap fouls on a guy taking it to the hole.

[ShackO]

Mike Mathis (former NBA ref) was on radio the other day and he said it was "scary" how correct Cuban was about the poor state of affairs that NBA officiating is (a lot of the details). He said Cuban's stats, etc. that he's been bringing to the league are right on. I think the league wants to and is trying to make things better but they would just prefer Cuban not contiually calling them out on stuff in public. Hey, if Cuban doesn't care about what people think about him (it's obvious that he doesn't) then I'm totally on board with him ranting and raving to get something done about the officiating. All he's really asking for is some more accountability (refs) just like what's expected of any other employee of a corporation. Plus, more training for these refs. Mike Mathis says the league still uses the "buddy system" when hiring some of these refs. A lot of qualified refs are getting passed up cuz someone "knows someone" in the right place.


You know were to get a transcript of it??? A link??

thnx

[ShackO]

Funny how very few Mavs fans were complaining about the refs after game one of the Spurs series. Mostly they were just telling everyone to stop whining and occassionally complaining about the lack of fairness and conistency in disqualifying players like Terry by the league office. Somehow after the Miami series poor reffing has become a major issue. Any ideas why that is?
I donna know......... Why not ask the mav fans???

[bulletedge]

Cuban brags one night on national TV about how he got the rules to be changed so there was no more "Riley ball" and and players like Wade, Lebron and Dirk (:lol) could take it to the hole without being roughed up. Then the next night he's bitching about too many cheap fouls on a guy taking it to the hole.

All together now..."FUCK CUBAN, FUCK CUBAN, FUCK CUBAN".

Ok...forgetting our shared hatred of Cuban for a moment (or at least one thread)...can we share our thoughts on the state of NBA officiating?

FUCK CUBAN, FUCK CUBAN, FUCK CUBAN...there's a few more for good measure.

[picnroll]

Exactly how are you going to improve the " the state of NBA officiating". You have Wade getting fouled at least three times going to the basket, twice by Harris and once by Dirk, and yet you still have Mavs fans screaming with indignation that the refs gave it to him. One example but every teams fans can lay claim to the same indignation. The only way to improve "the state of NBA officiating" is to find a way where every fan's team wins every game.

[bulletedge]

Exactly how are you going to improve the " the state of NBA officiating". You have Wade getting fouled at least three times going to the basket, twice by Harris and once by Dirk, and yet you still have Mavs fans screaming with indignation that the refs gave it to him. One example but every teams fans can lay claim to the same indignation. The only way to improve "the state of NBA officiating" is to find a way where every fan's team wins every game.

I disagree with your solution. I saw many bad calls in the Spurs-Mavs series. Yep, they protected Dirk (and Timmy). My feeling is that these calls are wrong- regardless of which team you are pulling for.

In my opinion, ridiculous calls in favor of stars (or against rookies or lesser players) only weaken the integrity of the game. Allowing ANYBODY in the league to take two or three steps on their way to the hoop (Dirk Nash, Wade, LeBron, Parker...the list is endless) is another way the rules are cheapened.

I think that the way to improve the game would be to improve the officating to the extent that (human error aside) we would not be sitting here weeks after the Spurs-Mavs series reading post after post of how the refs called it in favor of Dallas.

Perhaps NBA officiating cannot be improved. I disagree. And I think that anyone who has watched any quantity of NBA games (regardless of the teams involved) would agree that calls are shaded in favor of stars at the expense of diluting the integrity of the rule book. I'd like to see that change.

[ShackO]

I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

I am not going to argue your opinion but I think the NFL goes the extra step, @ lest now days to try and get the correct call…..

In the NBA there is not even an option to change the call in the vast majority or circumstances…. Although they can review the tape to invoke a suspension ……

In the NFL if someone is a Star, all-star, superstar or what have you do they get a half step before the snap?? Is it still “grabbing the face mask” if they used only four fingers??

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….

[bulletedge]

Hmmmm...I wonder what would happen if each coach could challenge one call per half to be reviewed via instant replay ala the NFL.

It might serve to keep the refs a little more honest...not to mention help to alleviate the human error factor on calls late in games, i.e. to help make sure that the "right" call was made.

[ShackO]

That might help but the complaint there is that it slows down the game.......

I guess all those commercial timeouts don't do that....

[bulletedge]

That might help but the complaint there is that it slows down the game.......

I guess all those commercial timeouts don't do that....

I'd gladly trade a few more minutes of my time for more correct calls. And they already use replay to determine if a shot beat the buzzer and to determine the correct amount of time that should be on the clock at the end of games.

Of course, Stern and the refs would shit their pants if they were faced with the prospect of replay review of calls. It would make it much tougher to shade the calls in favor of the stars...especially at the end of a game. That's why it will never happen.

[ShackO]

I disagree with your solution. I saw many bad calls in the Spurs-Mavs series. Yep, they protected Dirk (and Timmy). My feeling is that these calls are wrong- regardless of which team you are pulling for.

In my opinion, ridiculous calls in favor of stars (or against rookies or lesser players) only weaken the integrity of the game. Allowing ANYBODY in the league to take two or three steps on their way to the hoop (Dirk Nash, Wade, LeBron, Parker...the list is endless) is another way the rules are cheapened.

I think that the way to improve the game would be to improve the officating to the extent that (human error aside) we would not be sitting here weeks after the Spurs-Mavs series reading post after post of how the refs called it in favor of Dallas.

Perhaps NBA officiating cannot be improved. I disagree. And I think that anyone who has watched any quantity of NBA games (regardless of the teams involved) would agree that calls are shaded in favor of stars at the expense of diluting the integrity of the rule book. I'd like to see that change.

Some good points there but you assume they want to “improve it”…………

Have you or anyone considered that in their opinion there is nothing to fix……..

This is EXACTLY what they want………. And they want us to just STFU about it already…..

[picnroll]

Hmmmm...I wonder what would happen if each coach could challenge one call per half to be reviewed via instant replay ala the NFL.

It might serve to keep the refs a little more honest...not to mention help to alleviate the human error factor on calls late in games, i.e. to help make sure that the "right" call was made.
How's that going to change much. We've seen umpteen still shots and videos of controversial plays and people still argue and claim fix depending on who their team is. Likely it'll add as much or more controversy to rulings.

Unlike football basketball plays are more complexand subjective. It's often not just a question of was his foot out of bunds, did he cross the goal line, did his knee touch the ground before he dropped the ball?

[ShackO]

. It would make it much tougher to shade the calls in favor of the stars...especially at the end of a game. That's why it will never happen.

LOL................... EXACTLY....:smokin

I guess in this case we can not accuse the nba’s pimp david fuxing stern of being a liar…..

As far as I know he has never came out and said they are not biased or showing preferential treatment..

[bulletedge]

How's that going to change much. We've seen umpteen still shots and videos of controversial plays and people still argue and claim fix depending on who their team is. Likely it'll add as much or more controversy to rulings.

Unlike football basketball plays are more complexand subjective. It's often not just a question of was his foot out of bunds, did he cross the goal line, did his knee touch the ground before he dropped the ball?

I agree that basketball is much more subjective than football.

But in many cases it would be easy enough to determine if there was absolutely NO contact on a shooting foul- I mean absolutely positive proof that there was NO CONTACT...body or otherwise. Or if a player took an extra step going to the hoop. Was the player set or still moving (or outside the arc) on offensive foul calls. Did he step out of bounds? Was his foot on the three point line? Etc., etc. etc.

I KNOW this will never happen- at least not in my lifetime. But I would much rather look at the replays and at least attempt to determine the correct call DURING the game than to engage in endless debate long after the game is over.

I mean, why bother to review shots at the end of a period to see if they beat the clock? Let's just go with whatever the crack NBA refs call...

[miss paxton]

I wonder about an organization- any type of organization- where the membership is not allowed to voice ANY criticism of the organization. Let's see....that was true in Hitler's Germany, Soviet Union during the Cold War, Castro's Cuba, and on & on & on...

The difference, of course, being that the NBA is not a system of government.

While I do agree the officiating is often bad and inconsistent, I'm not sure the solution is to just let the players, coaches and owners comment unchecked. Cuban, like everyone else, has his agenda. Everybody sees unfairness from his or her own perspective. It maddens me that I see no difference between the argument that the officials decided the games in the Finals and the argument that the officials decided the games in the WCSF, yet suddenly all we hear about is the unfairness in Finals officiating. In both cases I wanted the players deciding the games. But of course, the team that loses is always going to think (and sometimes, they're going to be right) that bad officiating cost them.

Replays are also a problem, for the reasons picnroll pointed out. Taking the Wade FTs in Game 5--was there a foul? Was there "enough" of a foul to justify calling it at that point in the game? I never thought the issue was as much whether Wade actually got fouled, but whether the officials should have called it at that point in the game.

[StylisticS]

I disagree, I think that the NFL's officiating is worse than the NBA. And I personally believe that Paul Tagliabue and his cronies run the NFL with much more of an iron fist than David Stern.

sorry but the NBA officiating is much worse than the NFL. Not alot of emphasis on star treatment in that league. You have your calls and your games, but not as bad as the NBA.

[StylisticS]

I am not going to argue your opinion but I think the NFL goes the extra step, @ lest now days to try and get the correct call…..

In the NBA there is not even an option to change the call in the vast majority or circumstances…. Although they can review the tape to invoke a suspension ……

In the NFL if someone is a Star, all-star, superstar or what have you do they get a half step before the snap?? Is it still “grabbing the face mask” if they used only four fingers??

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….

100% agreed. I asked this question to many people that does any league make such an emphasis to star treatment more than the NBA. All of the answers are no. The NBA caters to the stars more than all the other major professional leagues.

[trueD]

As a premise the nba has a special handling instructions for it’s elite (bread winners)…

A strike is a strike in MLB…….

A tackle is a tackle in the NFL………

But in the NBA a foul often times depends upon on the person….Good point of course, but how to "fix" the oh-so-humanness of the individual referee? It ain't gonna happen. Players must take responsibility to avoid too much controversy with the refs (commonly referred to as whining) and understand more clearly the personal bias of each ref so they can try and conform in some way. Isn't that how the world goes round and round?

Picking battles, ie., complaining much less (but complain, oh yes) about blatantly bad calls --not every friggin call--seems to get the respect of the human ref much more than constant whining.

What about this: attempting to attract the foul under the basket as opposed to making a legitimate play. If I were a ref these players would see my back hand often, but I digress. :blah

In short, the refs are in charge, players need to deal with it. However, the league needs more Mark Cuban's to fight the good fight against poor officiating. Mark Cuban is just the wrong guy. Is the ref more likely to listen to, say Gary Payton as opposed to Ray Allen (or someone else with considerable respectability)? Ray Allen is more likely to get the next call than is Gary Payton (constant flapping jaw). Just human nature.

Since refs are small little Stern's, give them their due as being in charge and treat them respectfully on the court. THEN complain.

[ShackO]

Unlike football basketball plays are more complexand subjective. It's often not just a question of was his foot out of bunds, did he cross the goal line, did his knee touch the ground before he dropped the ball?

Agreed that is why the only solution I see.......... And this only will help with the "unintentional" mistakes not the overall choreographing of the game by the officials, is to simplify the game....... (I would say the about the NFL as well......)

The athletes have improved skills and some of these officials are like a hundred years old… So you have much more going on and @ a higher rate and then you exacerbate that with much more for them to watch for…

[TheSanityAnnex]

Its the bloody star treatment that gets under my skin. I hate it. I hate it.

I also hate how some refs buy the con job of yelling or groaning when going up for a basket. Kobe is the master of this. If I have to see one more constipation grunt <grrrraaaaaaaaaaa> trigger a whistle, I'm going to puke.

[ShackO]

Good point of course, but how to "fix" the oh-so-humanness of the individual referee? It ain't gonna happen. Players must take responsibility to avoid too much controversy with the refs (commonly referred to as whining) and understand more clearly the personal bias of each ref so they can try and conform in some way. Isn't that how the world goes round and round?

Picking battles, ie., complaining much less (but complain, oh yes) about blatantly bad calls --not every friggin call--seems to get the respect of the human ref much more than constant whining.

What about this: attempting to attract the foul under the basket as opposed to making a legitimate play. If I were a ref these players would see my back hand often, but I digress. :blah

In short, the refs are in charge, players need to deal with it. However, the league needs more Mark Cuban's to fight the good fight against poor officiating. Mark Cuban is just the wrong guy. Is the ref more likely to listen to, say Gary Payton as opposed to Ray Allen (or someone else with considerable respectability)? Ray Allen is more likely to get the next call than is Gary Payton (constant flapping jaw). Just human nature.

Since refs are small little Stern's, give them their due as being in charge and treat them respectfully on the court. THEN complain.


Well Good Morning pretty lady........ :drool:



I hate that as well.......... Another thing I hate to see and they always get the call (see: kobe, Wade, etc...) Is the fake and get them in the air and then LEAN IN AND TAKE THE SHOT

[TheSanityAnnex]

mav fan will cry when he failst o bring the city any championship trophy
:cry :cry :cryCan you Spurs fans drop the whole Mav/Cuban hate thing for one thread? This could be a great discussion if you would leave your personal hate for Cuban aside. Why do some of you feel the need to turn every thread into a bashing of the Mavs thread, don't you already have enough of those?

[ShackO]

cuban's a little bitch


mav fan will cry when he failst o bring the city any championship trophy
:cry :cry :cry

Not sure I follow that........ Is that like studdering or something???? :fro

[ShackO]

Hey it's DA_MAN????

[picnroll]

Fact is that basketball simply is a much more complicated game which has far more borderline activities going on. How many times have we even heard that players practice illegal moves. Saying basketball is the most poorly refereed sport is naive. It's also far and away the most difficult sport to referee.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Saying basketball is the most poorly refereed sport is naive. It's also far and away the most difficult sport to referee.Which is harder, 1. trying to see if someone's feet were set as they tried to take a charge, or 2. trying to see through a crowd of 12 people if a lineman is holding someone while dodging 280 pound men running full speed around you?

[picnroll]

An example. On Nunn's show he commented that in post play you generally have one ref assigned to the guy with the ball and his defender. He said that there is so much going on upper body with arms that that the ref frequently won't be able to look down and catch that a guy has moved his pivot foot. Maybe if there are 10 refs on the floor, one assigned to each player, they can get all the calls right. Oh yeah and also get a couple of hundred turnovers and free throws too.

And in football you don't think they miss two or three holds a play?

[ShackO]

Fact is that basketball simply is a much more complicated game which has far more borderline activities going on. How many times have we even heard that players practice illegal moves. Saying basketball is the most poorly refereed sport is naive. It's also far and away the most difficult sport to referee.

I have heard that many times…..

“It is a game of finesse” ….

“This that and the other”

“It is to complicated”

Well they are the ones that made it complicated… Somehow fools @ the gym and street corners manage to “play a game” without all those complications………

[ShackO]

An example. On Nunn's show he commented that in post play you generally have one ref assigned to the guy with the ball and his defender. He said that there is so much going on upper body with arms that that the ref frequently won't be able to look down and catch that a guy has moved his pivot foot. Maybe if there are 10 refs on the floor, one assigned to each player, they can get all the calls right. Oh yeah and also get a couple of hundred turnovers and free throws too.

And in football you don't think they miss two or three holds a play?

That is why more is not better......

Less is better....... Less complication... Simplify the game……….

[TheSanityAnnex]

And in football you don't think they miss two or three holds a play?
How often do you see lineman pleading their cases to the refs?

[DirkAB]

That is why more is not better......

Less is better....... Less complication... Simplify the game……….


Then what are the point of even having the rules? Just call the holds and pass interferences when you feel like it? Same thing in basketball, travels need to be called and so do fouls, them are the rules. I don't care if it looks ugly and takes a year for the players in the NBA to readjust to actually playing by the rules. But there were way to many noncalls going on in the NBA for too many years, it is too bad that they let it go as far as they did. The handchecking, treavelling, and dislodging of the defender by backing him down with consecutive offensive fouls needed to go. And obviously the refs are human, and it will take them a while to adjust to calling the games differently, because it obvious that these changes were demanded from above. So I think that they will get better at it, and probably quit calling some of those ticky tack fouls.

I agree that the star treatment, and at the opposite end of the spectrum the rookie treatment, has gotten out of control and needs to be changed. I also think that the flopping needs to be taken care of, there is way too much of that shit going on.

I still believe that the officiating is worse in the NFL, maybe because it is easier to screw a team or help a team out with a bad call or nocall. I think that each call carris more weight in terms of the final outcome in football, so each call seems to be more important. I also think that the replay is nice, but it is ridiculous that they even miss calls on the replay, so if they continue to do so I would scrap the replay rule. Too many loose interpretation of the rules also.

Basketball and Football are IMO the hardest 2 sports to ref. I don't envy their jobs. Sometimes when I watch the games I still can't decide after seeing replay a couple of times what the right call is. It is a very hard job.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I never thought the issue was as much whether Wade actually got fouled, but whether the officials should have called it at that point in the game.

A foul is a foul, whether it happens two minutes into the first quarter, or with five seconds left in the game.

You all argue for objective officiating, but then want them to consider time left and the score at the end of the game when deciding whether or not to call something. Make up your damn minds.

[ShackO]

Then what are the point of even having the rules? Just call the holds and pass interferences when you feel like it? Same thing in basketball, travels need to be called and so do fouls, them are the rules. I don't care if it looks ugly and takes a year for the players in the NBA to readjust to actually playing by the rules. But there were way to many noncalls going on in the NBA for too many years, it is too bad that they let it go as far as they did. The handchecking, treavelling, and dislodging of the defender by backing him down with consecutive offensive fouls needed to go. And obviously the refs are human, and it will take them a while to adjust to calling the games differently, because it obvious that these changes were demanded from above. So I think that they will get better at it, and probably quit calling some of those ticky tack fouls.

I agree that the star treatment, and at the opposite end of the spectrum the rookie treatment, has gotten out of control and needs to be changed. I also think that the flopping needs to be taken care of, there is way too much of that shit going on.

I still believe that the officiating is worse in the NFL, maybe because it is easier to screw a team or help a team out with a bad call or nocall. I think that each call carris more weight in terms of the final outcome in football, so each call seems to be more important. I also think that the replay is nice, but it is ridiculous that they even miss calls on the replay, so if they continue to do so I would scrap the replay rule. Too many loose interpretation of the rules also.

Basketball and Football are IMO the hardest 2 sports to ref. I don't envy their jobs. Sometimes when I watch the games I still can't decide after seeing replay a couple of times what the right call is. It is a very hard job.


What part of simplify don’t you understand??? That does not infer do away with all the rules…

I care............

From above???? Would that be stern or God... Or are they one and the same???


But there were way to many noncalls going on in the NBA for too many years, it is too bad that they let it go as far as they did

Well you probably don't know that it use to be just the opposite... Yea thats right, calling every little foul..... The way you would like it to be..

And you were not allowed to say a word back then either.......... And the complaining............ Well it didn't come "from above" but from the fans......... Tired of all the constant stopping of the game and the tic tac meaningless contact fouls that are just part of the game...

[DirkAB]

What part of simplify don’t you understand??? That does not infer do away with all the rules…

I care............

From above???? Would that be stern or God... Or are they one and the same???



Well you probably don't know that it use to be just the opposite... Yea thats right, calling every little foul..... The way you would like it to be..

And you were not allowed to say a word back then either.......... And the complaining............ Well it didn't come "from above" but from the fans......... Tired of all the constant stopping of the game and the tic tac meaningless contact fouls that are just part of the game...


I think that it needs to be a happy medium between the way that Riley's Knicks played, and the calling of everything. I don't like exactly how it was called in the playoffs this year, but I like the fact that they are trying to call some things that they ignored for a long time. I saw more travels called this postseason that I did during the whole regular season, what a breath of fresh air that was. I saw lots of offensive fouls called for backing done the defender and trying to dislodge the defender, I liked that too. I saw them disallow hand checking, which I also liked to see. Like I said, it will definitely take some adjustment and the officials.

Sure I think that Stern is the reason for the new officiating, but so what? I know that he runs his league like a dictator, but I don't care because I think he does a great job. I believe that he always is looking out for the best interest of his league. He saw that changes needed to be made, and he made them. Too much contact was being called "incidental" contact, that in fact wasn't. Too many littles fouls were called, but can you imagine how difficult it is for the refs to adjust? I'm not going to bitch about the timing of the changes. The changes helped the NBA more than it hurt the NBA.

I guess you have a problem with how Stern runs the NBA, but I personally believe that he might be the greatest commisioner in sports history. He saved this league back in the 80's, and no it wasn't all MJ, Magic, and Larry. Stern absolutely saved the league with the first salary cap, a tough drug policy, and much needed PR when he took over the league. He saved the NBA from near-bankruptcy and distinction.

[ChumpDumper]

Cuban is whiny bitch.

Mathis is a convicted taxfraud whose son is on Cuban's payroll.

[ShackO]

I didn’t either. Should be the same way as they do in the regular season…. Aaaahh well better then that but more consistent….lol

I agree about the traveling and backing (dislodging: see ShaQ) a defender but I strongly disagree about stern……. I don’t think he is interested in the game, the players or the fans except how it effects the bottom line… Thus the preferential treatment for the stars… The Michael Jordan effect for raising revenue….




He saved this league back in the 80's, and no it wasn't all MJ, Magic, and Larry. Stern absolutely saved the league with the first salary cap, a tough drug policy, and much needed PR when he took over the league. He saved the NBA from near-bankruptcy and distinction.

I think it was not stern….>>>> but MJ that saved the NBA...... I guess I could give some credit to $tern for leeching off his success as a means to pimp the league…

And the salary cap............???? Today’s solutions are tomorrow’s problems....

I am sure the people in New York miss the good O’ days……. I wonder what happens to all that money that goes over the cap???

It is your opinion that stern is the NBA messiah, that’s fine……. I on the other hand see him simply as the greedy miser that believes all this league needs is a new dress policy and more celebrities to exploit and make some money on…….

And perhaps you think I am a bit harsh on your Messiah but keep in mind he is his position solely to make money…. Not the betterment of mankind…

[trueD]

A foul is a foul, whether it happens two minutes into the first quarter, or with five seconds left in the game. EXACTLY!


You all argue for objective officiating, but then want them to consider time left and the score at the end of the game when deciding whether or not to call something. Make up your damn minds. When refs refuse to call the late foul consistantly it does appear to be unfair when they do call it. The no-call foul can decide the outcome of a close game -- which is exactly what the refs try to avoid by not calling the foul. :bang

[ChumpDumper]

And the salary cap............???? Today’s solutions are tomorrow’s problems.... Nah, you can't just toss that out there and hope no one calls you on it. What are tomorrow's problems as you see them caused by the CBA?
I wonder what happens to all that money that goes over the cap???The luxury tax money goes back to the teams.
It is your opinion that stern is the NBA messiahNah, he's just the best sports commissioner today. Not that the bar is set too high.
keep in mind he is his position solely to make money…. Not the betterment of mankind…But Cuban is out there for the betterment of mankind?

Cuban is in his position to:

1) Serve his ego.

2) Win a championship.

In that order, as #2 accomplishes #1.

[StylisticS]

!

When refs refuse to call the late foul consistantly it does appear to be unfair when they do call it. The no-call foul can decide the outcome of a close game -- which is exactly what the refs try to avoid by not calling the foul. :bang

that's the keyword. Consistently. I didn't have a problem with them calling a foul at that point in time. But if you make that call on one end, make it on the other. And if you make a call like that time in that game, make it in other games. I am pretty damn sure that in close games that go down to the wire throughout the regular season and the playoffs, you had more blatant touching than what you seen in game 5 but did not get a call for reasons we all are led to believe they don't call those type of fouls at the end of games.
That's where the inconsistency comes in which leads to many frustrations for basketball fans. It's been going on for years and sadly, it's getting worse.

[trueD]

that's the keyword. Consistently. I didn't have a problem with them calling a foul at that point in time. But if you make that call on one end, make it on the other. And if you make a call like that time in that game, make it in other games. I am pretty damn sure that in close games that go down to the wire throughout the regular season and the playoffs, you had more blatant touching than what you seen in game 5 but did not get a call for reasons we all are led to believe they don't call those type of fouls at the end of games.
That's where the inconsistency comes in which leads to many frustrations for basketball fans. It's been going on for years and sadly, it's getting worse.Even still, not suggesting that the "no-call" is fair, because it really isn't. Leaves it up to the discretion of the ref which is unfair. Is there such a thing as a discreet foul--only one FT? Ermmm, no. Like AHF says, a foul is a foul is a foul, and they all should be called, even during the final moments. Gives no room for disparity and keeps players honest also.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Certain calls should never be called, such as when Tony Parker had a fistful of Dirk's jersey in the closing seconds of game 4 or 5 I believe. I call like that shouldn't decide the game, and I'm glad they didn't call it. I still don't think the call Wade got at the end of the game was a fair one either. A game shouldn't be decided with free throws because of a ticky tac call.

[trueD]

Certain calls should never be called, such as when Tony Parker had a fistful of Dirk's jersey in the closing seconds of game 4 or 5 I believe. I call like that shouldn't decide the game, and I'm glad they didn't call it. I still don't think the call Wade got at the end of the game was a fair one either. A game shouldn't be decided with free throws because of a ticky tac call.I guess my point is that ALL fouls should be called, regardless of time lapse. I remember that jersey pulling foul, was a desperation end-of-the-game foul that should be paid attention to, in my book of "End Of The Game Very Fair Rules". Pull on my jersey and I deserve to be at the line shooting for my team no matter what the time clock says.

And that foul to Wade was a pushing foul, saw the pic from behind and there was definitely pressure. Plus Dirk is a wimp and deserved the call, lol...

[ShackO]

Nah, you can't just toss that out there and hope no one calls you on it. What are tomorrow's problems as you see them caused by the CBA?The luxury tax money goes back to the teams.Nah, he's just the best sports commissioner today. Not that the bar is set too high.But Cuban is out there for the betterment of mankind?

Cuban is in his position to:

1) Serve his ego.

2) Win a championship.

In that order, as #2 accomplishes #1.





How bout guaranteed contracts???? I guess you love those, I know Houston, Webber, Marbury, Grant and Jerome James do..

Age limit??? Who’s business is that all of a sudden??



I guess you can show me where I said that about Cuban>???

Cuban is in his position to:

1) Serve his ego.

2) Win a championship.

Why I would guess every owner could confess to some of that…. Add a few bucks into the mix and a fella could have fun with a job like that…..

And while I am @ it let me mention a few more things ….

I don’t like people being fined because they say $tern and his employees are not doing a good enough job………

I don’t like his pompous ass telling other people how to dress……. Especially when they are wearing the gear his league sells…………

[ChumpDumper]

How bout guaranteed contracts????Basicly a good idea. The length is the problem and that has ben addressed.
Age limit??? Who’s business is that all of a sudden??The NBA's.
I guess you can show me where I said that about Cuban>???Then why bring it up about Stern?
Why I would guess every owner could confess to some of thatNone of them whore themselves in the media as much.
I don’t like people being fined because they say $tern and his employees are not doing a good enough job………Cuban agreed to that that when he became an owner. Blame him.
I don’t like his pompous ass telling other people how to dressI think some of the provisions of the code are silly, but what do you wear to work? If you don't have the luxury of working at home, chances are someone is telling you how to dress. I have less sympathy for millionaires who whine about having to follow rules virtually every other working Joe has to.

[ShackO]

I has ben addressed.???

In your opinion……..IMO it has a ways to go still...........

I guess you can show me where I said that about Cuban>???



None of them whore themselves in the media as much.

SO WHAT??? He can do what ever he wants just like you............ He wants to make an ass out of himself what business is that of yours????

Yea I know those poor millionaire just don't get no sympathy.......:smokin

[StylisticS]

Even still, not suggesting that the "no-call" is fair, because it really isn't. Leaves it up to the discretion of the ref which is unfair. Is there such a thing as a discreet foul--only one FT? Ermmm, no. Like AHF says, a foul is a foul is a foul, and they all should be called, even during the final moments. Gives no room for disparity and keeps players honest also.
Right, a foul is a foul is a foul. If Harris or Dirk fouled Wade at the end of game 5, call it, in which they did. But call it for other players as well. If Tim Thomas was driving and Wade did the exact same thing Harris or Dirk did to get the foul called on them, do you think they call a foul on Wade at that time in the game? There is a good chance that the answer is maybe NO. That's what I'm saying. They cater to the superstars instead of all players in the league. Be consistent with your calls. This is why the NFL and MLB trumps the NBA, IMO.

[ChumpDumper]

I has ben addressed.???

In your opinion……..IMO it has a ways to go still...........That's your opinon. Whoopie. I never saw Cuban say anything about guaranteed contracts. It's pretty clear he likes giving them away.
None of them whore themselves in the media as much.

SO WHAT??? He can do what ever he wants just like you............ He wants to make an ass out of himself what business is that of yours????I can comment on it if I have to watch it. If he doesn't want folks commenting on him he can STFU.

[miss paxton]

A foul is a foul, whether it happens two minutes into the first quarter, or with five seconds left in the game.

You all argue for objective officiating, but then want them to consider time left and the score at the end of the game when deciding whether or not to call something. Make up your damn minds.

I don't disagree with your first statement. However, there is usually an element of subjectivity in making those calls. I would be surprised if there was ever a possession wherein nobody committed a foul, but obviously not each and every foul is going to be called. What's the rationale for not calling fouls on every possession then? I mean, immediately when Game 5 ended, the ESPN crew was discussing whether the officials should make that call in that situation--it's not a new concept that fouls at the ends of games often go uncalled.

I don't know what the solution is. I wish I did, because in my ideal world there would be no need to discuss officiating.

[ShackO]

I never saw Cuban say anything about guaranteed contracts.


It's pretty clear he likes giving them away.I can comment on it if I have to watch it. If he doesn't want folks commenting on him he can STFU.

I never did either. Not sure what that has to do with anything……..

I think he likes folks commenting on him, good , bad or ugly…He certainly keeps a lot of people around here entertained……..

@ your place of employment will they fine or fire you if you voice your opinion and they don’t agree??

Under the conditions of your employment do you have a salary guarantee regardless of your job performance??

[Obstructed_View]

The fans dictate what they like about the NBA, and David Stern has, in my opinion, allowed the rules committee to make way too many changes to the rules in order to try to make the game more "fun to watch", while instead the game has gotten bogged down in technicalities and complaining. The officiating wasn't that way in the 80s because the rules were easier and the players didn't whine as much.

The NBA should do two things in my opinion to help the state of the game:

1. Crack down on all complaining to the officials during the game by players. Allow the coaches a small amount of leeway but less than they've gotten recently. Expect a few extra ejections in the first week of the season, but they'll get the message pretty quickly.

2. Declare a moratorium on rule changes for a period of time, perhaps three years, or require significantly more than a 2/3 vote by the board of governors to approve any new changes. There's very little doubt that NBA officiating was much better before they started tweaking the rules every single year, and everything now becomes a judgment call.

The NBA should have learned not to fuck with the rules soon after the failed "closer three point line" experiment.

[mabber]

A foul is a foul, whether it happens two minutes into the first quarter, or with five seconds left in the game.

You all argue for objective officiating, but then want them to consider time left and the score at the end of the game when deciding whether or not to call something. Make up your damn minds.

I don't think we're arguing for objective officiating, we're (fans & players) just arguing for consistent officiating and the trend for years has been to allow the boys to play late in games. I'd be fine with whatever way they go as long as they stick to it. Both the foul call on Duncan vs. Dirk (forget which game) and the foul call on Dirk vs Wade in game 5 were calls that have normally not been made in those situations. Yes, they were fouls but the league had made the determination (years ago) to not call anything late in big games cuz they wanted the players (not the refs) to decide the game. I'm not blaming the refs for the loss to the Heat cuz if they had been consistent it was very likely that the Mavs don't even make it past the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think we're arguing for objective officiating, we're (fans & players) just arguing for consistent officiating and the trend for years has been to allow the boys to play late in games. I'd be fine with whatever way they go as long as they stick to it. Both the foul call on Duncan vs. Dirk (forget which game) and the foul call on Dirk vs Wade in game 5 were calls that have normally not been made in those situations. Yes, they were fouls but the league had made the determination (years ago) to not call anything late in big games cuz they wanted the players (not the refs) to decide the game. I'm not blaming the refs for the loss to the Heat cuz if they had been consistent it was very likely that the Mavs don't even make it past the Spurs.
The thing is that the rules favoring the offense are consistent. Your scoring power forward can take advantage of it, but don't be surprised when he is exploited, especially when he ends up on the perimeter in a mismatch.