Religious Cult or Islamic Terra' ist?

[Nbadan]

CAIR: Miami Cult not Muslims

I just saw the spokesman for the Council on American Islamic Relations on CNN saying that the Miami cult members just arrested are not Muslims. I'd say that is a fair statement.

For one thing, they are vegetarians!


It seems pretty obvious that they are just a local African-American cult which mixed Judaism, Christianity and (a little bit of) Islam. It seems to be a of vague offshoot of the Moors group founded by Dwight York. I heard on CNN that one of them talked of being Moors. And Batiste, the leader, called whites "devils" in the tradition of the original Nation of Islam and York's Moors. Now CNN is saying one member said they practiced witchcraft . One former member is called Levi-El, suggesting he might be associated with the Black Hebrew movement or an offshoot. Now a relative of one of the members, Phanor, said that they wore black uniforms with a star of David arm patch and considered themselves of the Order of Melchizadek. I wonder if it is "Seas of David" or "C's of David", with "c" meaning commando or some such?

I define cult as a religious group that has values that put it in a high state of tension with the norms of mainstream society, and that has a leadership that imposes high levels of discipline and demand for control of adherents' lives.

This Seas of David group primarily seems to have been studying the Bible. The mother of one insisted that he is a Catholic. Then there is all that Jewish symbology and terminology, even in their names. Islam was nothing more for them but a set of symbols they could pull into their syncretic local culture. The group drew on poor Haitian immigrants and local indigent African-American youth. If this were the 1960s, they'd have been Black Panthers or Communists.

Juan Cole (http://www.juancole.com/)

This whole terrorist cell crap has been debunked every which way from Sunday, yet the M$M continues to present the WH lies as complete, unquestionable truth. They don't care if moonbats know they are lying. The sheeple don't and that's all that matters.

[xrayzebra]

Now I just wonder why the American Islamic Relations would say that?

Since the FBI had someone in the group, I think I will stick with their story. If that
is okay with you?

[Nbadan]

From the looks of it so far, it was the FBI informant who was helping to drive the group to be more militant.

[xrayzebra]

From the looks of it so far, it was the FBI informant who was helping to drive the group to be more militant.

Have a little question for you dan. Have you ever agreed with anything our
government has done or said since Clinton left office. And did you ever
disagree with anything Clinton said or did?

Just curious.

[Nbadan]

The seven South Florida men accused of plotting terrorism claim to follow teachings of the Moorish Science Temple of America, a religion that blends aspects of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and stresses self-discipline through martial arts, a close friend of one of the arrested men said Friday.

Sylvain Plantin, 30, a distant cousin and friend of indicted group member Stanley Grant Phanor, said the group's leader, Narseal Batiste, followed the religious teachings of the Prophet Noble Drew Ali, who founded the Moorish Science Temple.

''I never joined the group, but I went to a couple of Bible studies'' at the warehouse on Northwest 15th Avenue that was raided by federal agents, Plantin said.

``I never heard him talk about explosives or guns. He only talked about defending themselves. If I'd have heard that, believe me, I'd have been the first to call 911.''

Miami (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14891106.htm)

The media is taking this and running with it big time. There already calling them a cell even though there is no evidence there so-called terrorist plans got past the purely fantasy stage. They had no money, or no explosives, and no connection to al-qaida till they met and undercover agent pretending to be al-qaida.

[Nbadan]

Have a little question for you dan. Have you ever agreed with anything our
government has done or said since Clinton left office. And did you ever
disagree with anything Clinton said or did?

Just curious.

Not since the Kennedy assassination.

[boutons_]

Just as the Repug Iraq war was a 2004 re-election ploy, the Miami 7 is nothing but a Repug 2006 mid-term ploy "only the Repugs can be trusted with national security. Look all the the bullshit, fake terrorists we capture"

Exactly the same as the flag-burning and gay-marriage amendments. No chance of getting passed, but just votes to beat Repug opponents with in the campaign, proving once again that the Repugs are only interested in winning office to rape the country, rather than governing the country. No policies, only politics.

[smeagol]

No policies, only politics.
No there's a slogan if I ever saw one.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I feel safer now. :rolleyes This group couldn't even spell bomb, let alone make one.

[IceColdBrewski]

I do wonder how those who tend to be shall we say, left leaning, would have reacted if the FBI hadn't uncovered this plot and these guys had successfully blown up the Sears tower or the Miami FBI headquarters? Do you think they would have pinned the blame on GWB?... Nah!

[exstatic]

I do wonder how those who tend to be shall we say, left leaning, would have reacted if the FBI hadn't uncovered this plot and these guys had successfully blown up the Sears tower or the Miami FBI headquarters? Do you think they would have pinned the blame on GWB?... Nah!
The only way to bring down the Sears tower would be to go WTC on it with plane(s). These guys weren't smart enough or suidcidal enough to go there. The planners for 9/11 were smart college educated fanatical religious extremists. These guys are dropout, dope smoking, trashing talking wannabees. My guess is that they've been watching them for a while, and finally realized that a) there is an election in a matter of months, and b) they could wait ten years and these fuckups would still be talking shit and doing nothing.

[IceColdBrewski]

Timothy McVeigh wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed either, but that didn't stop him from blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

Leave it to you far left yahoos to try to minimize the FBI taking down homegrown terrorists who were seeking al-queda training. God forbid you should have to give the Bush administration credit for anything. :rolleyes

[xrayzebra]

Timothy McVeigh wasn't the smartest tool in the shed either, but that didn't stop him from blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

Leave it to you far left yahoos to try to minimize the FBI taking down homegrown terrorists who were seeking al-queda training. God forbid you should have to give the Bush administration credit for anything. :rolleyes

Amen. Wonder if they remember a recluse living in a shack who blew up
several people. He was a real thinker and smart as they come. For a lefty
he was.

[George W Bush]

God forbid you should have to give the Bush administration credit for anything. :rolleyes

Hey, I steal credit and don't you forget it.

[IceColdBrewski]

Dude was a dumbass who dropped out of college and worked a string of dead end jobs. His choices were probably down to the Army and McDonalds when he finally decided to enlist.


*McVeigh told various people that the Army had installed a computer chip in his ass, for nefarious purposes which were never quite clear but apparently extended beyond simple buggery. According to his biographers, this was his idea of a joke, which partially explains why he took up "mad bombing" as opposed to "stand-up comedy."

*McVeigh felt that Star Trek: The Next Generation was a depiction of an ideal world, apparently not accounting for the fact that the ship had "colored folk" on board, performing jobs other than food service.

* McVeigh justified his slaughter of 168 mostly civilians by citing Star Wars. He pointed out that the Death Star was probably staffed with bureaucrats and menial workers, who merited their deaths by virtue of working for the "Evil Empire." Interestingly, one would think that McVeigh would feel more at home on the all-white Death Star than on the multicultural U.S.S. Enterprise, but apparently no one bothered to ask him about this paradox before he was snuffed.

*McVeigh told his biographers that he drove to Area 51, the alleged U.S. storehouse for flying saucers, in September 1994, where he single-handedly faced down black helicopters and assorted New World Order goons.

Yeah. Real smart cookie.

[Nancy Pelosi]

Timothy McVeigh wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed either, but that didn't stop him from blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

Leave it to you far left yahoos to try to minimize the FBI taking down homegrown terrorists who were seeking al-queda training. God forbid you should have to give the Bush administration credit for anything. :rolleyes

My sentiments exactly, don't give Bush credit for anything. We call the
shots and when I get to be speaker, we will just see who gets all the
credit for everything. Me and my wonderful, truthful and pure as driven
snow party.

Bush is a liar and we said so, therefore it is so.

[exstatic]

Murrah building <> Sears tower. The Islamic extremists already tried the truck bomb thing on the WTC. It didn't work. Nothing short of a plane is going to bring down a skyscraper, and these jackoffs were too damn stupid to pull that off.

This was not a real threat, this was a serious case of wannabee-itis.

[Nbadan]

These guys were even bigger pretenders than Yonivore...

Monday, June 26th, 2006
"Aspirational Rather than Operational" - 7 Arrested in Miami Terror Plot


AMY GOODMAN: What about the evidence or lack of evidence that was found?

MAX RAMEAU: Well, a lot of show has been made about the militaristic boots that they had and the gear and the outfits. Well, it turns out these guys didn't have enough money or enough organization to get these things for themselves. The FBI bought them the boots that we’ve heard so much about, bought them the military outfits that we’ve heard so much about. If you look at the indictment, the biggest piece of evidence, it seems to me, that they have is that the group may have taken pictures of a bunch of targets in South Florida. But the guys couldn't afford their own cameras, so the federal government bought them the cameras with which they took the pictures. They couldn't get downtown and all the other places by themselves. The federal government rented them the cars that they needed to get downtown in order to take the pictures. So it looks like they really didn't have too much capacity.

Democracy Now (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/26/1349235)

Shouldn't we be putting these FBI agents on trial for aiding and abetting terrorists??

[Winehole23]

Imagine a country in which the government pays convicted con artists and criminals to scour minority religious communities for disgruntled, financially desperate, or mentally ill patsies who can be talked into joining fake terror plots, even if only for money. Imagine that the country's government then busts its patsies with great fanfare to justify ever-increasing authority and ever-increasing funding. According to journalist Trevor Aaronson's The Terror Factory, this isn't the premise for a Kafka novel; it's reality in the post-9/11 United States.


The Terror Factory is a well-researched and fast-paced exposé of the dubious tactics the FBI has used in targeting Muslim Americans with sting operations since 2001. The book updates and expands upon Aaronson's award-winning 2011 Mother Jones cover story, "The Informants (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/08/fbi-terrorist-informants)." Most readers have likely heard about several alleged conspiracies to attack skyscrapers, synagogues, or subway stations, involving either individuals that the FBI calls "lone wolves" or small cells a credulous press tagged with such sinister appellations as the "Newburgh 4" or the "Liberty City 7." Many of these frightening plots were almost entirely concocted and engineered by the FBI itself, using corrupt agents provocateurs who often posed a far more serious criminal threat than the dim-witted saps the investigations targeted.


Drawing on court records and on interviews with the defendants, their lawyers, their families, and the FBI officials and prosecutors who oversaw the investigations, Aaronson portrays an agency that has adopted an "any means necessary" approach to its terrorism prevention efforts, regardless of whether there are real terrorists being caught. To the FBI, this imperative justifies recruiting informants with extensive criminal records, including convictions for fraud, violent crimes, and even child molestation, that in an earlier era would have disqualified them except in the most extraordinary circumstances.


In addition to providing leniency, if not forgiveness, for heinous crimes, the FBI pays these informants tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars, creating a perverse incentive for them to ensnare dupes into terror plots. Aaronson quotes an FBI official defending this practice: "To catch the devil you have to go to hell."


Such an analysis might make sense when police leverage one criminal to gain information about more serious criminal conspiracies—in other words, to catch a real "devil." But Aaronson's research reveals that the targets in most of these sting operations clearly pose little real threat. They may have a history of angry anti-government rhetoric, but they take no steps toward terrorist acts until they receive encouragement and resources from government agents.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/15/manufacturing-terrorists