The NBA is Rigged....

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Conspiracy is all over the NBA right now. From the "Cuban Whistle crisis", to the officials swallowing their whistles, only to have games settled in a tight fourth quarter. We all throw shit out there after a lose ready to pull that "the league doesn't want to see my team in the finals" card. But without being a homer, do you really think the NBA is rigged?

[mike detroit]

Conspiracy is all over the NBA right now. From the "Cuban Whistle crisis", to the officials swallowing their whistles, only to have games settled in a tight fourth quarter. We all throw shit out there after a lose ready to pull that "the league doesn't want to see my team in the finals" card. But without being a homer, do you really think the NBA is rigged?

[infamous ref quote]how many fouls does shaq have[/infamous ref quote]

[ShackO]

OK.............. So then who is going to get the ring next year.....

You got a game break down with point spreads so I can place my bets on Monday.. :wakeup

[ChumpDumper]

Why the hell do you "yes" idiots watch, then?

[mike detroit]

for the record. i don't think the nba is rigged. i do think that sometimes calls go a certain way for the benefit of the league. that's just the way things are. if you want to win anyway, just be better than that. it happens pretty often.

[DirkAB]

Why the hell do you "yes" idiots watch, then?

No shit. They probably watch because WWE isn't on that night. Bunch of fuckin' losers if you ask me, you watch and root for the NBA and think it is rigged! Seriously, that is what little 10-year olds do when they watch pro wrestling.

[mike detroit]

No shit. They probably watch because WWE isn't on that night. Bunch of fuckin' losers if you ask me, you watch and root for the NBA and think it is rigged! Seriously, that is what little 10-year olds do when they watch pro wrestling.


looking at your username, is your shift key broken? it seems to have gotten better.

[DirkAB]

for the record. i don't think the nba is rigged. i do think that sometimes calls go a certain way for the benefit of the league. that's just the way things are. if you want to win anyway, just be better than that. it happens pretty often.


You don't think it is rigged, but you believe that calls are specifically called in a team's or player's direction to "benefit" the league. That makes no fucking sense what so ever. In other words you think that the league is rigged.

[mike detroit]

You don't think it is rigged, but you believe that calls are specifically called in a team's or player's direction to "benefit" the league. That makes no fucking sense what so ever. In other words you think that the league is rigged.

yes, it does. are you arguing that no one gets the "superstar treatment"? they certainly do. but no, they don't fix the outcomes. that would be a ridiculous scandal, and they couldn't keep it a secret. nba refs are notoriously bad, but they influence games, they don't fix them.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, what you think goes on is the very deifinition of rigging.

You think it's rigged.

Own it.

[mike detroit]

Yeah, what you think goes on is the very deifinition of rigging.

You think it's rigged.

Own it.

you're not very good at the internet

[ChumpDumper]

You, on the other hand, are very good at being a wishy-washy douche.

[DirkAB]

yes, it does. are you arguing that no one gets the "superstar treatment"? they certainly do. but no, they don't fix the outcomes. that would be a ridiculous scandal, and they couldn't keep it a secret. nba refs are notoriously bad, but they influence games, they don't fix them.

When you say "for the benefit of the league," that means that somebody has maid a conscious effort to manipulate the calls to help the league in some way shape or form. Yet you claim that the league isn't rigged, how contradicting is that?

I believe that there is superstar treatment to an extent, but in no way do I believe that it is intentionally done. No way that the refs are given orders or instuctions to give superstars the calls. The refs are only human, they are influenced by some superstars and some teams, they give them more respect for whatever reason, which leads to getting some calls.

[mike detroit]

You, on the other hand, are very good at being a wishy-washy douche.


my point is logically consistant. do you understand debate and logic? it doesn't seem like it.

[ChumpDumper]

my point is logically consistant.No, you say you don't think it's rigged, and then you describe a rigging situation as what actually happens in the NBA.

It is you who doesn't understand his own argument.

[mike detroit]

When you say "for the benefit of the league," that means that somebody has maid a conscious effort to manipulate the calls to help the league in some way shape or form.

I believe that there is superstar treatment to an extent, but in no way do I believe that it is intentionally done. No way that the refs are given orders or instuctions to give superstars the calls. The refs are only human, they are influenced by some superstars and some teams, they give them more respect for whatever reason, which leads to getting some calls.


a fair point. maybe the refs are just weak, not crooked. that's possible. my only arguement is that the superstar treatment occurs. I voted in this damn poll, and I voted that the league is NOT rigged. nba refs are awful, but they ONCE AGAIN do not fix games. they are a factor, and teams with players that get the superstar treatment benefit. it's not game fixing, but it's still not right. it's been going on for years though, and we've all just come to accept it. ever since MJ, there's been different standards for different players, to an extreme extent.

[mike detroit]

No, you say you don't think it's rigged, and then you describe a rigging situation as what actually happens in the NBA.

It is you who doesn't understand his own argument.

that's not rigging. that's influencing. there's a big and important difference.

[ChumpDumper]

I voted in this damn poll, and I voted that the league is NOT rigged.You voted "on the fence".

Seriously, you can't even remember the button you pushed?

[mike detroit]

You voted "on the fence".

Seriously, you can't even remember the button you pushed?


and in what way does that equal saying that the league is rigged?

[ChumpDumper]

and in what way does that equal saying that the league is rigged?In what way does that equal saying that the league is NOT rigged?

[mike detroit]

In what way does that equal saying that the league is NOT rigged?

okay, you're right it doesn't, however, my saying multiple times in this thread that I don't believe the league is rigged does.

[DirkAB]

You voted "on the fence".

Seriously, you can't even remember the button you pushed?
:owned :lmao

[mike detroit]

:owned :lmao


ok, since you guys seem pretty dense. for the record, right now, get ready for it...

THE NBA IS NOT RIGGED

[DirkAB]

ok, since you guys seem pretty dense. for the record, right now, get ready for it...

THE NBA IS NOT RIGGED


We're dense??? Who is the idiot who claimed that the NBA was NOT rigged, but yet claimed that the refs were giving superstars the calls for the benefit of the league? Who also boldy stated that he voted that the NBA was NOT rigged, a lie, then was called out by a mod for lying? Then in another thread you were calling somebody out for being an idiot because they thought Kobe's wife didn't work, because you claimed that she hosted Top Model, when in fact it is Tyra Banks. Then you said Kobe's wife was Vanessa Williams, who is in fact Rick Fox's wife.

Look, I don't know what you think dense is, but an idiot calling somebody else dense doesn't hold much water. Dense waived bye bye to you years ago, you flew right past dense into borderline retarded.

[ShackO]

:wakeup"We see ourselves as choreographing an athletic event and providing the proper setting where the world's greatest athletes can show their skills." (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44749)

I hope this helps......lol :smokin

[Bob Lanier]

Why the hell do you "yes" idiots watch, then?
I won't be. I've followed the NBA religiously for 35 seasons, but after this one I think I've seen enough. I might start watching again after Stern retires, but I doubt it.

[ChumpDumper]

Then why are you posting here?

I'd respect your boycott more if you started it after you team won it all. It was still fixed then after all, right?

[DirkAB]

I won't be. I've followed the NBA religiously for 35 seasons, but after this one I think I've seen enough. I might start watching again after Stern retires, but I doubt it.


Sounds like sour grapes to me. Just like ChumpDumper said, the timing of this boycott is suspect to say the least. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

[ChumpDumper]

"Our latest championship is a fucking sham! There's no way we could've won without the refs cheating for us! Stern wanted us to win! I'm fucking outta here!"

[trueD]

Four words: Game 6 2002 WCF's.

Kings fans who made it past that game without being jaded are the real deal.

[Mavs_man_41]

For christs sake dumped chump, quit arguing. Everyone knows the league isn't fixed, but it is manipulated. If it brings the league money for dwade and the heat to win the championship, then they get the majority of the calls. Nobody sits down before hand and plans the winner, the refs just have a major influence. It is still possible to overcome the refs influence, its just much harder.

[ChumpDumper]

You're an idiot for watching then.

No surprise.

[Mavs_man_41]

You're an idiot for watching then.

No surprise.

How am I an idiot for watching? The only regrets I have is that the mavs weren't able to play through the bad calls and still win. Its not impossible to do, just much harder.

[ChumpDumper]

How am I an idiot for watching?"Hey, it's only mostly fixed for DWade."

[Mavs_man_41]

^ Hey, he's the next Jordan :drunk

[trueD]

For christs sake dumped chump, quit arguing. Everyone knows the league isn't fixed, but it is manipulated. If it brings the league money for dwade and the heat to win the championship, then they get the majority of the calls. Nobody sits down before hand and plans the winner, the refs just have a major influence. It is still possible to overcome the refs influence, its just much harder.There are ways to avoid refs taking over the game:

1. Don't whine
2. Play clean
3. Don't whine
4. Make legitimate plays in the paint, not attack just to draw a foul
5. Don't whine
6. Hussle
7. Don't Whine
8. Pick your battles - not ALL calls are incorrect
9. Don't whine
10.Don't whine (did I say that?)

[Mavs_man_41]

^ exactly, which is why i still watch even though there is a possibility of referee interference.

[J.T.]

I voted on the fence. It seemed like it was rigged when we were playing Dallas, especially in games 2-4. But to pull off something like rigging the NBA, if it was ever publicized it could be doom for Stern. I'd say it's more horrible officiating than rigging.

[ChumpDumper]

So, you believe that the league tries to fix games through the refs, and if your team wins, it's in spite of the league's attempt to fix them.

Conspiracy and persecution rolled into onw.

Beautiful.

[Mavs_man_41]

So, you believe that the league tries to fix games through the refs, and if your team wins, it's in spite of the league's attempt to fix them.

no, it works both ways. All depends on who you are playing. Sometimes ill admit the refs help the mavs. Other times, like the finals, wade got every call which really hurt us in the long run.

[Mavs_man_41]

^ Thats why it should be consistant, no matter which teams are playing. I dont care if its the heat vs the raptors, the game should be called evenly.

[ChumpDumper]

So the league will fix any game at any time for any reason.

[Mavs_man_41]

So the league will fix any game at any time for any reason.

It's all about the money.....Thats how the world works.

[ChumpDumper]

So the best you can hope for is that your team is the one the league wants to win so they can fix the game for your team.

[Mavs_man_41]

You want my honest opinion? I think the mavs were helped out in the mavs-spurs series, because the mavs are the more marketable team. It turned around and bit us in the ass in the finals.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

[Mavs_man_41]

So the best you can hope for is that your team is the one the league wants to win so they can fix the game for your team.

No, that's not what i'm saying. Its still possible to play through the bad calls and still win. The mavs should have outhustled and outplayed the heat so that the bad calls wouldnt have mattered.

[ChumpDumper]

I think your belief of the league's control of the refs is laughable.

[DirkAB]

It's all about the money.....Thats how the world works.


Bullshit. If that were the case, don't you suppose that Stern would have found a way to get the Clippers a ring by now? How about even getting the Knicks in the playoffs? Your theory is shit.

[Mavs_man_41]

:lmao

Laugh all you want, I used to think the same way. I was always defending the league and refusing to believe, but the more i think about it the more it makes sense.

[DirkAB]

Laugh all you want, I used to think the same way. I was always defending the league and refusing to believe, but the more i think about it the more it makes sense.

It just happens that you figured this out right after your team choked away the championship in four straight losses. Good timing.

[Mavs_man_41]

Bullshit. If that were the case, don't you suppose that Stern would have found a way to get the Clippers a ring by now? How about even getting the Knicks in the playoffs? Your theory is shit.

The refs can't do enough to make a shitty team like the 90's clippers good, besides L.A. already has the Lakers. And believe it or not the Knicks weren't always a bad team.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, the Spurs never would've made the Finals three times, much less won all three of them had the league wanted them out.

[ChumpDumper]

It just happens that you figured this out right after your team choked away the championship in four straight losses. Good timing.Yeah, he was touting this conspiracy big time after the 2nd round.

[Mavs_man_41]

Sorry, the Spurs never would've made the Finals three times, much less won all three of them had the league wanted them out.

I dont think you understand. The NBA doesnt decide whether a team is good or not, they just take what they have and work with it. This year, for instance, Miami was the most marketable team of all the contenders. Miami is a big city and everyone loves DWADE, miami just broke the record for merchandise sales after the finals, surpassing Detroit in 03. That's why miami seemed to get the benefits of all the calls. Did the nba outright rig it for the Heat to win? No. Did they give miami a little extra help, hoping they could bring home the trophy? Certainly.

[DirkAB]

The refs can't do enough to make a shitty team like the 90's clippers good, besides L.A. already has the Lakers. And believe it or not the Knicks weren't always a bad team.

What about the Knicks? Only 2 rings, and those were in the early 70's, way before Stern took over. They haven't even made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 seasons. Don't you think that if the league is that concerned about money and willing to manipulate outcomes, they would figure out a way to help bring the NBA to the largest market in the world by getting the Knicks to the playoffs???

[ChumpDumper]

I dont think you understand. The NBA doesnt decide whether a team is good or not, they just take what they have and work with it. This year, for instance, Miami was the most marketable team of all the contenders. Miami is a big city and everyone loves DWADE, miami just broke the record for merchandise sales after the finals, surpassing Detroit in 03. That's why miami seemed to get the benefits of all the calls. Did the nba outright rig it for the Heat to win? No. Did they give miami a little extra help, hoping they could bring home the trophy? Certainly.I don't think you understand.

The San Antonio Spurs won the NBA Champinonship three times.

[Mavs_man_41]

I don't think you understand.

The San Antonio Spurs won the NBA Champinonship three times.

The NBA isn't going to outright make the spurs suck, they are a good team. Making bad calls against them isnt going to make them a lottery team. The can fight through the bad calls and still win, like they almost did against the mavs this year. Haven't u ever seen the spurs get the short end of the deal?
.4, perhaps?

[ChumpDumper]

The NBA isn't going to outright make the spurs suck, they are a good team. Making bad calls against them isnt going to make them a lottery team. The can fight through the bad calls and still win, like they almost did against the mavs this year. Haven't u ever seen the spurs get the short end of the deal?
.4, perhaps?It wasn't a fix.

Neither was this season's Mav series.

I'm glad you can enjoy your team's fraudulent success.

I wouldn't waste my time.

[DirkAB]

The NBA isn't going to outright make the spurs suck, they are a good team. Making bad calls against them isnt going to make them a lottery team. The can fight through the bad calls and still win, like they almost did against the mavs this year. Haven't u ever seen the spurs get the short end of the deal?
.4, perhaps?

They wouldn't have 3 rings if they wanted only marketable teams to win. Don't you get it? Nobody said make them suck, just keep them from winning it.

BTW, you are pathetic, get over it. YOUR TEAM FUCKING BLEW IT, BIGTIME!!!!!!!!

[Mavs_man_41]

They wouldn't have 3 rings if they wanted only marketable teams to win. Don't you get it? Nobody said make them suck, just keep them from winning it.

BTW, you are pathetic, get over it. YOUR TEAM FUCKING BLEW IT, BIGTIME!!!!!!!!

Hell ya they did, out hustle the heat and those bad calls aren't the difference maker. I'm pissed, and i have every right to be. Im pissed at the nba. Im pissed at the people talking shit. Im pissed most of all at the mavericks. AND NO I WONT GET OVER IT. It will take time.

[East Coast Babe]

Don't you get it? Nobody said make them suck, just keep them from winning it.



"keep them from winning it." Sounds like a little rigging to me! By th way, I am not watching this season. I am not spending one dime on games this year! I am tired of the NBA! They need to get their act together. Hockey did! It took them a year, but they did. Basketball can do the same!

[ChumpDumper]

"I'll start watching as soon as they fix it so my team wins!"

[z0sa]

I think the refs are unbiased but simply human, with a job on the line at all times and other refs looking at them, as well as David Stern. And sometimes that causes them to call a certain way or another.

[Obstructed_View]

If the officials wanted to make sure Miami won over the Mavericks, they would not have called that bogus travelling violation against Haslem when he got the offensive board on Wade's last free throw. Period.

.04 was not a bad call. It sucked, and it hurt, but there's no way it was anything but a great shot.

[mike detroit]

We're dense??? Who is the idiot who claimed that the NBA was NOT rigged, but yet claimed that the refs were giving superstars the calls for the benefit of the league? Who also boldy stated that he voted that the NBA was NOT rigged, a lie, then was called out by a mod for lying? Then in another thread you were calling somebody out for being an idiot because they thought Kobe's wife didn't work, because you claimed that she hosted Top Model, when in fact it is Tyra Banks. Then you said Kobe's wife was Vanessa Williams, who is in fact Rick Fox's wife.

Look, I don't know what you think dense is, but an idiot calling somebody else dense doesn't hold much water. Dense waived bye bye to you years ago, you flew right past dense into borderline retarded.


yawn. do you have anything interesting to say?

[NBA Junkie]

It's fixed in that you'll never see a finals match-up featuring two small market teams like Utah-Indiana. If you thought the ratings were bad for the last couple of finals, a match-up like this would be a ratings disaster of Titanic proportions. Also note that these type of match-ups have not occurred under David Stern's reign as NBA commissioner.

Somebody try to convince me that a casual fan outside of Utah or Indiana would watch such a series.

Thats why I voted yes. Otherwise, I'm not convinced of any other fixes involving the league.

[himat]

It's not rigged, but the game has changed. I mean it wasn't even like this a couple of years ago. I remember the pistons keeping 5 teams uner 70 for a record in the NBA 2 years ago, but its close to impossible to do that even once now. You can't touch a guy anymore and you can't even look at a superstar. The NBA is trying to force a new NBA superstar beasically and thats not right. Michael Jordan didn't get half the calls Wade did. Imagine if Jordan was in the league right now in his prime... :spless: :spless: :spless: :spless: :wow :wow :wow

[ALVAREZ6]

The NBA is the worst fuckin league ever. If it weren't for the Spurs, I wouldn't watch a single game for the rest of my life.

[greywheel]

I don't think the NBA is rigged to allow one team or another to win. I do believe that Superstars need to be on the court for this league to work. I do not know if the manage to stay on the court because they change their play style when in foul trouble or the refs change their officiating style.
I do believe it is possible to assign certain officials to games that (by knowing how they officiate) can affect the outcome. I do not know if this is being done. I do believe it is possible to rate officials poorly if they allow blowouts in playoff games and then not assign them to subsequent games. I do not know if this is being done.

Chumpdumper, BAkriD, why do you care if someone thinks the league is rigged but still chooses to watch the games? I don't watch wrestling but I don't care if others do. I don't really care if others believe it is real, either. The only stupid people would be the ones that believe the league is rigged but still gamble on it. Even then, I don't really care.

[DirkAB]

It's fixed in that you'll never see a finals match-up featuring two small market teams like Utah-Indiana. If you thought the ratings were bad for the last couple of finals, a match-up like this would be a ratings disaster of Titanic proportions.

What about Spurs v. Nets? That was a ratings nightmare, and you can't say that the NBA did anything to "not allow" it.

You don't think that the Suns v. Cleveland would be allowed by the NBA? Those ratings would be off the charts, and those are 2 small market teams. Your theory is shit.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

The NBA is the worst fuckin league ever. If it weren't for the Spurs, I wouldn't watch a single game for the rest of my life.

http://www.seniorleaguehockey.com/nhl/images/nhlcrest.gif

[NBA Junkie]

What about Spurs v. Nets? That was a ratings nightmare, and you can't say that the NBA did anything to "not allow" it.

You don't think that the Suns v. Cleveland would be allowed by the NBA? Those ratings would be off the charts, and those are 2 small market teams. Your theory is shit.

Let's not forget that NJ is close enough to NYC to be considered a large market franchise. The league gambled on this and lost, thinking that Knick fans would hop the bandwagon and tune in. I'm sure there are a lot of Net fans in NY who still follow the team dating back to their ABA days.

You could have me on Phoenix-Cleveland. But, then again, it depends on how much of a star Lebron James becomes. If he becomes a household name like MJ, maybe. His "Q" ratings could overcome the fact that he plays in a small market. That remains to be seen. As of now, PHX-CLE would not do so well either, IMO. Despite his back-to-back MVP's, how many casual fans have heard of Steve Nash? It's not as though he has commercial endorsements that anyone has seen.

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpdumper, BAkriD, why do you care if someone thinks the league is rigged but still chooses to watch the games?Why do you care if I care?

[DirkAB]

Let's not forget that NJ is close enough to NYC to be considered a large market franchise. The league gambled on this and lost, thinking that Knick fans would hop the bandwagon and tune in. I'm sure there are a lot of Net fans in NY who still follow the team dating back to their ABA days.

You could have me on Phoenix-Cleveland. But, then again, it depends on how much of a star Lebron James becomes. If he becomes a household name like MJ, maybe. His "Q" ratings could overcome the fact that he plays in a small market. That remains to be seen. As of now, PHX-CLE would not do so well either, IMO.

You really think New York gives a shit about the Nets? I don't, maybe a very small percentage do. The NBA didn't gamble on this!!!!! The Nets won the East and the Spurs won the West, period. So do you think that the NBA are bad gamblers or something? You must, because the lost their shirt on the Spurs 3 times.

I'm not talking about the Suns v. Cavs in the future, I was talking about this season. That would have probably been the bigger draw than the Heat v. Mavs. LeBron is already a star. You are absolutely crazy if you think that the Suns v. Cavs wouldn't have been great ratings. Do you ever watch sportscenter or any of the sports shows? LeBron is King, that is all the reporters talk about. Plus the Suns are the funnest team in the league to watch, plus they have the 2-time MVP.

[greywheel]

Why do you care if I care?

I'm just curious. You seemed to be pretty adament that people that think the league is rigged should not watch. See my wrestling analogy.

[DirkAB]

I'm just curious. You seemed to be pretty adament that people that think the league is rigged should not watch. See my wrestling analogy.


Well, if you believe that the NBA is anything comparable to the WWE, then you are a moron IMO.

[greywheel]

I never said that. The analagy pertains to people that watch wrestling. Learn to read.

[DirkAB]

I never said that. The analagy pertains to people that watch wrestling. Learn to read.


So, do you think that people who believe that the NBA is rigged and still watch anyways are morons?

[mabber]

Why the hell do you "yes" idiots watch, then?

Excellent question! Anyone that voted "yes" is an IDIOT.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Anyone that voted "yes" is an IDIOT.A list of the idiots, all 16 of them: ALVAREZ6, awmyplace, Bob Lanier, BruceBowenFan, Buck Rogers, crgassoc, Darrin, davi78239, djordan26, East Coast Babe, Lp26, Mavs_man_41, mffl89, NBA Junkie, Phil Hellmuth, SA Gunslinger

[ChumpDumper]

I'm just curious.I'm just curious about idiots.

[greywheel]

So, do you think that people who believe that the NBA is rigged and still watch anyways are morons?

No, if they still find it entertaining than so be it. Like I said if they bet on the games and think they are rigged they are morons.

[DirkAB]

No, if they still find it entertaining than so be it. Like I said if they bet on the games and think they are rigged they are morons.


How about watch it, think it is rigged, root their asses off for a team, and bitch and complain like crazy when their team losses? Rooting for a sport they think is rigged could be the defenition of idiot. And then bitching about it when it doesn't go their way, might be symptomatic of borderline retarded.

[greywheel]

That I will agree with.

[DirkAB]

A list of the idiots, all 16 of them: ALVAREZ6, awmyplace, Bob Lanier, BruceBowenFan, Buck Rogers, crgassoc, Darrin, davi78239, djordan26, East Coast Babe, Lp26, Mavs_man_41, mffl89, NBA Junkie, Phil Hellmuth, SA Gunslinger


I'll try and remember those names, because there is no sense in even discussing anything NBA related with them if they truly believe that the NBA is rigged like pro wrestling. Truly pathetic.

[East Coast Babe]

A list of the idiots, all 16 of them: ALVAREZ6, awmyplace, Bob Lanier, BruceBowenFan, Buck Rogers, crgassoc, Darrin, davi78239, djordan26, East Coast Babe, Lp26, Mavs_man_41, mffl89, NBA Junkie, Phil Hellmuth, SA Gunslinger



I'll try and remember those names, because there is no sense in even discussing anything NBA related with them if they truly believe that the NBA is rigged like pro wrestling. Truly pathetic.


Since my name is on this list, just let me say that at this moment I do not have NBATV on my TV, nor do I have TNT on my TV nor will I have them. I will not turn on ABC for basketball unless it is college basketball. I have no season tickets, nor do I intend to buy them and I have no individual game tickets, nor do I intend to buy them. I love basketball and not watching hurts! But I hate the rigging going on! Even a little is wrong to me. At this rate all of the teams in smaller markets have no chance of getting to the Finals and I think that is a sorry state of affairs. They must know that at the beginning of the playoffs. Games should be called as fairly as possible with the most adept officials calling those games. When there are enough of us complaining about it, or enough players complaining about it, it will change. As you know from writing on this forum, there is strength in numbers.

P.S. Stern's office will hear from me in the next week or two.

[NBA Junkie]

You really think New York gives a shit about the Nets? I don't, maybe a very small percentage do. The NBA didn't gamble on this!!!!! The Nets won the East and the Spurs won the West, period. So do you think that the NBA are bad gamblers or something? You must, because the lost their shirt on the Spurs 3 times.

I'm not talking about the Suns v. Cavs in the future, I was talking about this season. That would have probably been the bigger draw than the Heat v. Mavs. LeBron is already a star. You are absolutely crazy if you think that the Suns v. Cavs wouldn't have been great ratings. Do you ever watch sportscenter or any of the sports shows? LeBron is King, that is all the reporters talk about. Plus the Suns are the funnest team in the league to watch, plus they have the 2-time MVP.

I think that New York does give a shit about the Nets if the team is planning a move to Brooklyn within the next three years. According to your logic, does this mean that New Yorkers don't give a shit about the Giants and Jets because they play in East Rutherford? :rolleyes

I still disagree with your assessment that the Suns-Cavaliers would draw huge ratings had they played in the Finals. Just because ESPN builds up Lebron James doesn't necessarily mean that the fans are buying the hype. It's gonna take more than just one postseason for people to sit up and take notice of Lebron. He's nowhere close to the aura that Jordan created. If you think he is, and that his presence can rival ratings that MJ's Bulls created, then you're the one who's crazy here. Also, casual observers still view the NBA as a low scoring boring product and are still not tuning in because of it. Yeah, scoring is up, but this is not something that's gonna change the fans perception of the game overnight.

Like I said, I think the league is mostly on the up and up. However, until I see two legitimate small market teams like Utah-Indiana or Sacramento-Milwaukee duking it out in the NBA Finals, there's a part of me that remains skeptical. I still love the game and will continue to enjoy the product. If that makes me an idiot, then so be it.

[NBA Junkie]

A list of the idiots, all 16 of them: ALVAREZ6, awmyplace, Bob Lanier, BruceBowenFan, Buck Rogers, crgassoc, Darrin, davi78239, djordan26, East Coast Babe, Lp26, Mavs_man_41, mffl89, NBA Junkie, Phil Hellmuth, SA Gunslinger

I can guarantee that if this wasn't a public poll and you didn't call out all of us so-called idiots, that the number would definitely be higher than 16. As it is, most who believe in certain fixes will not vote for fear of being tarred and feathered.

[NBA Junkie]

Post all you want. I still respect someone's opinion whether I agree/disagree with them.

[Obstructed_View]

I think that New York does give a shit about the Nets if the team is planning a move to Brooklyn within the next three years. According to your logic, does this mean that New Yorkers don't give a shit about the Giants and Jets because they play in East Rutherford?
You, along with most of America, must not have been watching in 2003. Somebody did a segment where they went shopping in New York for Nets gear, and nobody stocked any. This was during the NBA finals. There were a lot of news stories about it.

[mabber]

You, along with most of America, must not have been watching in 2003. Somebody did a segment where they went shopping in New York for Nets gear, and nobody stocked any. This was during the NBA finals. There were a lot of news stories about it.

NY will care about them if they move to Brooklyn. They don't care about them as long as they're in NJ though.

[NBA Junkie]

You, along with most of America, must not have been watching in 2003. Somebody did a segment where they went shopping in New York for Nets gear, and nobody stocked any. This was during the NBA finals. There were a lot of news stories about it.

I watched every game of the 2003 NBA Finals that year. I just didn't see the segment you described. Frankly, I don't watch ESPN Sportscenter anymore. It's seems to be more about comedy than it is about actual sports reporting.

[Obstructed_View]

NY will care about them if they move to Brooklyn. They don't care about them as long as they're in NJ though.
Just so you know, that's like saying the city of Dallas will start caring about the Rangers when they move to Euless. I wonder if the gate has improved for the "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim". How about just going back to the ABA name and alienate everyone from Jersey?

[Obstructed_View]

I watched every game of the 2003 NBA Finals that year. I just didn't see the segment you described. Frankly, I don't watch ESPN Sportscenter anymore. It's seems to be more about comedy than it is about actual sports reporting.
I wasn't trying to be critical. Just letting you know that it was a fairly common story. I wouldn't have believed that the Nets would have gotten so little support either.

[DirkAB]

I think that New York does give a shit about the Nets if the team is planning a move to Brooklyn within the next three years. According to your logic, does this mean that New Yorkers don't give a shit about the Giants and Jets because they play in East Rutherford? :rolleyes

I still disagree with your assessment that the Suns-Cavaliers would draw huge ratings had they played in the Finals. Just because ESPN builds up Lebron James doesn't necessarily mean that the fans are buying the hype. It's gonna take more than just one postseason for people to sit up and take notice of Lebron. He's nowhere close to the aura that Jordan created. If you think he is, and that his presence can rival ratings that MJ's Bulls created, then you're the one who's crazy here. Also, casual observers still view the NBA as a low scoring boring product and are still not tuning in because of it. Yeah, scoring is up, but this is not something that's gonna change the fans perception of the game overnight.

Like I said, I think the league is mostly on the up and up. However, until I see two legitimate small market teams like Utah-Indiana or Sacramento-Milwaukee duking it out in the NBA Finals, there's a part of me that remains skeptical. I still love the game and will continue to enjoy the product. If that makes me an idiot, then so be it.

I don't even think that there were rumblings of the Nets moving to Brooklyn at that time, even if there were do you really believe that New Yorkers actually adopted that team before they even knew that they would be getting them? No way.

I never once compared Jordan to LeBron, I never even mentioned Jordan's name in this whole conversation, so why do you keep bringing MJ up as if I did? I think that LeBron is the biggest star in the NBA right now, at least he was in the 2nd round before Wade went off in the finals, so do you really think that the biggest star in the NBA would hurt the ratings in the finals? No way. Do you really think that the Suns would get worse ratings than the Mavs? I think the Suns would get better ratings.

[NBA Junkie]

I never once compared Jordan to LeBron, I never even mentioned Jordan's name in this whole conversation, so why do you keep bringing MJ up as if I did? I think that LeBron is the biggest star in the NBA right now, at least he was in the 2nd round before Wade went off in the finals, so do you really think that the biggest star in the NBA would hurt the ratings in the finals? No way...

Jordan gets brought up since you keep insisting that ratings would go through the roof if James and the Cavs were in the Finals. The last time I checked, the ratings were through the roof when Jordan's Bulls were making their routine finals appearances in the 90's. Either you're exaggerating your point or you and I have different interpretations of what great really means.

I'm not saying that James' appearance in the finals would boost ratings. It's likely. I'm saying that he has yet to develop the type of cult following that the other stars (Bird, Magic, Jordan) enjoyed during their heydays in the league. Phoenix may resemble a high scoring team from the '80's, but that team lacks a true star that is going to generate a casual fan's interest. And, that is the audience that the league is trying to attract. It's a no-brainer that the diehard fans will tune in regardless of match-ups. Even then, that is a small audience compared to those fans that follow the NFL or MLB.

We're just going to have to disagree on the Nets being a part of the New York landscape. It's just a case of them being the ugly stepsister of the area. The Knicks have a much more storied NBA history in that area which, in turn, forces the Nets to take a backseat to them. It's much like the situation the Clippers have in LA as they are greatly overshadowed by the presence of the Lakers.

At any rate, I'm through talking about this. I've said all I needed to say. If I or anyone else is that much of an idiot in regards to a "fix" being in place, perhaps I should suggest you putting us on your ignore list so you're not subjected to such ramblings.

[ChumpDumper]

If I or anyone else is that much of an idiot in regards to a "fix" being in place, perhaps I should suggest you putting us on your ignore list so you're not subjected to such ramblings.And pass up more chances to ridicule you tinfoil-hatters?

Not a chance.

[zero signal]

I don't think it's rigged. I just think the refs manage to suck ass at very inopportune times.

[REDLION#22]

the league isint rigged,piston fans and their clasless underdong,insensitive,unsportmanship criminal attitudes make it somewhat rigged...but hey why worry the pistons diabolical fluke is over.

[Pistons < Spurs]

the league isint rigged,piston fans and their clasless underdong,insensitive,unsportmanship criminal attitudes make it somewhat rigged...but hey why worry the pistons diabolical fluke is over.


It's posts like this that I was talking about last night redlion...... :rolleyes

[REDLION#22]

Ok i know you dont like 'em but i honestly feel that way;)as crazy,inmature and controversial you may think of me,but im still holding to my thoughts.

[ShackO]

what thought is that????........>>>> Piston hater???

[REDLION#22]

shackO, why are you ALWAYS following me wherever i go? are you gay?or something pleas explain(and no sarcasm is not explaining)

[LakeShow]

Conspiracy is all over the NBA right now. From the "Cuban Whistle crisis", to the officials swallowing their whistles, only to have games settled in a tight fourth quarter. We all throw shit out there after a lose ready to pull that "the league doesn't want to see my team in the finals" card. But without being a homer, do you really think the NBA is rigged?

I don't think the NBA is rigged as far as determining the winners and combatants every year but I do believe that they will give the losing teams in some series every opportunity to win some games. The more games the more money. I'll always remember the timberwolves series when the T-wolves had the best record in the league. The lakers were blowing them out and all of a sudden the ref's start calling everything on the lakers. The lakers still won the game but Minnesota had every break and call to give them a chance.

I was watching the Phoenix/Dallas series and one of the ref's made a bad call on the mavs. Avery was Irrate and went to the official. The official said something to Avery, and Avery nodded OK, and walked away. On the very next play the ref called Phoenix for a moving pick at the top of the key. hmmmm,....

I'll believe that the league is rigged on determining contenders for the title when,

a.) Sterns dream matchup comes true, Lakers vs. Lakers
b.) If next years finalist are the Lakers and Heat
c.) If the Knicks and Lakers are competing for the title next season.

Kind of crazy to rig games that wont benefit you, wouldn't you think?

[DirkAB]

The official said something to Avery, and Avery nodded OK, and walked away. On the very next play the ref called Phoenix for a moving pick at the top of the key. hmmmm,....


You might take the cake with that jagoff inference. What a jackass idea.

[mabber]

I don't think the NBA is rigged as far as determining the winners and combatants every year but I do believe that they will give the losing teams in some series every opportunity to win some games. The more games the more money. I'll always remember the timberwolves series when the T-wolves had the best record in the league. The lakers were blowing them out and all of a sudden the ref's start calling everything on the lakers. The lakers still won the game but Minnesota had every break and call to give them a chance.

I was watching the Phoenix/Dallas series and one of the ref's made a bad call on the mavs. Avery was Irrate and went to the official. The official said something to Avery, and Avery nodded OK, and walked away. On the very next play the ref called Phoenix for a moving pick at the top of the key. hmmmm,....

I'll believe that the league is rigged on determining contenders for the title when,

a.) Sterns dream matchup comes true, Lakers vs. Lakers
b.) If next years finalist are the Lakers and Heat
c.) If the Knicks and Lakers are competing for the title next season.

Kind of crazy to rig games that wont benefit you, wouldn't you think?

While I totally don't think the league is rigged there was a funny situation in that same series between Dallas & Phoenix. I don't recall what game it was (I think it was game 4 in Phoenix), but Nash was talking to one of the refs (Salvdore I think) coming out of a timeout. They were smiling & laughing and having a good time it appeared. As play is about to start up again, they finished talking and they fist each other like teammates would and on the very next play that ref called a questionable foul on Dallas player guarding Nash. It was an amazing sequence to watch but there was nothing rigged about it.

[trueD]

I don't think the NBA is rigged as far as determining the winners and combatants every year but I do believe that they will give the losing teams in some series every opportunity to win some games. Based on your theory, speak about the 2002 Game 6 WCF finals.

Uh huh, uh huh. :lol

[DirkAB]

Jordan gets brought up since you keep insisting that ratings would go through the roof if James and the Cavs were in the Finals. The last time I checked, the ratings were through the roof when Jordan's Bulls were making their routine finals appearances in the 90's. Either you're exaggerating your point or you and I have different interpretations of what great really means.

I'm not saying that James' appearance in the finals would boost ratings. It's likely. I'm saying that he has yet to develop the type of cult following that the other stars (Bird, Magic, Jordan) enjoyed during their heydays in the league. Phoenix may resemble a high scoring team from the '80's, but that team lacks a true star that is going to generate a casual fan's interest. And, that is the audience that the league is trying to attract. It's a no-brainer that the diehard fans will tune in regardless of match-ups. Even then, that is a small audience compared to those fans that follow the NFL or MLB.

We're just going to have to disagree on the Nets being a part of the New York landscape. It's just a case of them being the ugly stepsister of the area. The Knicks have a much more storied NBA history in that area which, in turn, forces the Nets to take a backseat to them. It's much like the situation the Clippers have in LA as they are greatly overshadowed by the presence of the Lakers.

At any rate, I'm through talking about this. I've said all I needed to say. If I or anyone else is that much of an idiot in regards to a "fix" being in place, perhaps I should suggest you putting us on your ignore list so you're not subjected to such ramblings.


I never said anything about LeBron gettng Jordan-like ratings, I said ratings would improve. My point wasn't that LeBron is the next Jordan, it was that he is the biggest draw in the NBA and he would elevate the ratings. Basically you took my point and played connect the dots with some ridiculous idea that you claimed was mine, when in fact you came up with it.

You said that Stern wouldn't allow 2 small market teams to compete in the finals, but that is wrong. Why wouldn't he allow the Cavs and Suns to compete when the ratings would be fine? Makes no sense. You have to admit that the ratings would be at least very comparable to the Heat v. Mavs. I think there is as much star power in a Suns v. Cavs series. Personally I think that the ratings would have been better, maybe not much better, but better none the less.

You also claimed that the league gambled on the Nets v. Spurs in the finals, that is some lame consiracy theory bullshit. And it makes no sense, they knew that the ratings weren't going to be high going into that series, both teams had been in the finals before that year, very recently. So do you really think that the league took a gamble on those 2 teams, when in fact they already knew from previous experience that those 2 teams were a ratings nightmare? That makes no sense. Face it, the NBA isn't rigged at all. Maybe that theory just makes you feel better that your team hasn't made the finals or won it all, but it has nothing to do with them being a small market team.

[ShackO]

shackO, why are you ALWAYS following me wherever i go? are you gay?or something pleas explain(and no sarcasm is not explaining)


I am posting in about two or maybe three active threads right now… BBBbbOOOO!!!!

You seem a bit paranoid here…

If I was gay what WTF would I want with you…. Besides ain’t you a women??

It’s a small world even on a big board in the off season….. You shouldn’t flaunt your insecurities especially with all the shit you are talking around here…

Was it the comment about being a Pistons hater??? Surely you aren’t going to deny that..

I will make an effort to avoid your Pistons observations as you already seem to have more than you can handle with them………

Your friend,
ShackO

[LakeShow]

While I totally don't think the league is rigged there was a funny situation in that same series between Dallas & Phoenix. I don't recall what game it was (I think it was game 4 in Phoenix), but Nash was talking to one of the refs (Salvdore I think) coming out of a timeout. They were smiling & laughing and having a good time it appeared. As play is about to start up again, they finished talking and they fist each other like teammates would and on the very next play that ref called a questionable foul on Dallas player guarding Nash. It was an amazing sequence to watch but there was nothing rigged about it.

I don't know what was said between the two, (btw it was Crawford talking to Avery and Crawford who made the call) I just found that odd. It could have been a makeup call for the bad call on the other end, but that was the first time I have seen an exchange like that. What could Crawford possibly say to Avery at a time when he was upset about a blown call, and Avery just nod and walk away saying Ok?

[LakeShow]

Based on your theory, speak about the 2002 Game 6 WCF finals.

Uh huh, uh huh. :lol

I wont dispute that the lakers got the breaks in game 6 of 2002, had nothing to do with the outcome and like I stated, the kings had game 7 in Sacramento. If they did not choke at the freethrow line, they might have won. End of story!

[DirkAB]

I don't know what was said between the two, (btw it was Crawford talking to Avery and Crawford who made the call) I just found that odd. It could have been a makeup call for the bad call on the other end, but that was the first time I have seen an exchange like that. What could Crawford possibly say to Avery at a time when he was upset about a blown call, and Avery just nod and walk away saying Ok?

He had to say, "Avery, here comes the makeup call, I owe you one! But don't tell anybody, OK? Especially when you suspect that I'm promising calls to the other team too, alright?"

That has to be close.

[ShackO]

While I totally don't think the league is rigged there was a funny situation in that same series between Dallas & Phoenix. I don't recall what game it was (I think it was game 4 in Phoenix), but Nash was talking to one of the refs (Salvdore I think) coming out of a timeout. They were smiling & laughing and having a good time it appeared. As play is about to start up again, they finished talking and they fist each other like teammates would and on the very next play that ref called a questionable foul on Dallas player guarding Nash. It was an amazing sequence to watch but there was nothing rigged about it.


What do you think Nash told him???

Given the scenario (I don't recall the actual situation but I did watch the game) I would think he asked him to watch how they are fouling him......... That is not unusual............

[LakeShow]

It is no secret that in 2001 the league took a beating when the Lakers dominated the playoffs by Sweeping Portland, Sacramento and San Antonio in route to the finals where they defeated the 76'ers in 5 games. It was great for the Lakers and Lakers fans but bad for the league. The league could not have that happen again. A rule change was made to try to prevent the Lakers from dominating the league like that again.

It is a no brainer that the more games the more money for the league.

[Obstructed_View]

It is no secret that in 2001 the league took a beating when the Lakers dominated the playoffs by Sweeping Portland, Sacramento and San Antonio in route to the finals where they defeated the 76'ers in 5 games. It was great for the Lakers and Lakers fans but bad for the league. The league could not have that happen again. A rule change was made to try to prevent the Lakers from dominating the league like that again.

It is a no brainer that the more games the more money for the league.
Oh please.

[LakeShow]

Oh please.

I take it you don't believe that Shaq's dominance was one of the reasons for the zone in the NBA?

[DirkAB]

I take it you don't believe that Shaq's dominance was one of the reasons for the zone in the NBA?


Is changing the defensive rules the same as rigging games to get more of them?

[Pistons < Spurs]

It is no secret that in 2001 the league took a beating when the Lakers dominated the playoffs by Sweeping Portland, Sacramento and San Antonio in route to the finals where they defeated the 76'ers in 5 games. It was great for the Lakers and Lakers fans but bad for the league. The league could not have that happen again. A rule change was made to try to prevent the Lakers from dominating the league like that again.

It is a no brainer that the more games the more money for the league.
:lmao :lmao get the fuck outta here! too funny.

[LakeShow]

Is changing the defensive rules the same as rigging games to get more of them?

Thursday, May 31
Lakers' perfection proving costly to league, TV
Associated Press

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles Lakers' dominance in the 2001 playoffs is a losing proposition for television and the NBA.

The team swept the first three rounds of the playoffs with 11 straight victories, bad news when it comes to ratings and advertising dollars for the networks and revenue for the NBA.

"In conference finals, each game is worth about $5 million to $10 million in ad revenue," industry analyst David Carter said. "If a series goes only four games, not six or seven, they run the risk of forgoing what could have been sold in ads."

That could amount to about $20 million, Carter said.

Generally, a seven-game series must go to five games to break even, he said. The Lakers needed only four games to defeat San Antonio and Sacramento, and three games (out of five) to defeat Portland. Out of a maximum 19 possible games, they have played the minimum 11.

Los Angeles is four wins away from a second straight championship and an unprecedented perfect playoff sweep.

Paul Lazarus of the media-buying company TN Media in New York agreed that NBC and the NBA, which gets a portion of ad revenues, aren't cheering the Lakers' performance.

There's a double whammy with the kind of blowout victories the Lakers have scored: There are not only fewer games, but lopsided, less exciting ones -- and that means smaller audiences.

"A lot of viewers who are not regular-season viewers are there to watch a competitive game," Lazarus said.

A case in point was Game 3 between the San Antonio Spurs and the Lakers, which was close until the middle of the third quarter and ended with the Lakers winning 111-72. The NBC broadcast averaged 8.89 million viewers, down 15 percent from last year's comparable Lakers-Trail Blazers game.

The playoffs so far, compared to the same period last year, are down 8 percent in viewership, NBC said Thursday.

Ratings for TNT and TBS, which aired weekday games during the early rounds, were off 18 percent compared to last year's playoffs.

"Basically, when they're always winning, what's there to get excited about?" asked Bill Parent, an assistant dean at UCLA and fervent basketball fan. "You pretty much know what's going to happen, so you channel surf a little. See what else is on."

Ahead is the championship round between the Lakers and the winner of the Milwaukee Bucks-Philadelphia 76ers matchup. The 76ers lead the series 3-2, with the sixth game set for Friday night.

"The big issue with the NBA right now is the fine line between building a high visibility franchise, which Kobe (Bryant) and Shaq (Shaquille O'Neal) are in the midst of, versus one that is so dominant it's not competitive," Lazarus said.

While ratings sink, the fees paid by networks for broadcast rights are rising, compounding their financial trouble, Lazarus said.

"Advertisers don't care that they have escalating fees. That's not our problem. We're going to pay what the (broadcast) is worth," he said.

There could be one positive influence for NBC and the NBA. If the Lakers keep winning, viewers might tune in to see if they run the table, said Carter of the Los Angeles-based Sports Business Group.

NBC is keeping that in mind, sounding an optimistic tone as it keeps its eye on the Lakers.

"It's an interesting debate because people love to watch history being made and watch dynasties developing. ... A perfect postseason has never been done before," network spokeswoman Cameron Blanchard said.

"On the other hand, you also want to see a long, competitive series and you want to see that drama build over five, six, seven games," she said. "But it's sports; you don't know what's going to happen."

[DirkAB]

Thursday, May 31
Lakers' perfection proving costly to league, TV
Associated Press



Oh, that's why the Kings and Lakers went 7 games. I'm so glad that Stern ordered 7 games instead of allowing the Lakers to just sweep them again. Because I didn't think that the Bibby/J-Will trade had influence on the Kings getting better, I always suspected that Stern was behind their improvement.

[LakeShow]

Oh, that's why the Kings and Lakers went 7 games. I'm so glad that Stern ordered 7 games instead of allowing the Lakers to just sweep them again. Because I didn't think that the Bibby/J-Will trade had influence on the Kings getting better, I always suspected that Stern was behind their improvement.

Those are your words, not mine. What I am saying is after 2001 the league went into damage control to ensure revenue. Pretty simple if you ask me.

1. Stop the Lakers dominance.
enter the zone defense - check

2. Sweeps are a loss in revenue for the league and TV.
enter calls that could be made on any play being made for revenue purposes. - check

The NBA is not determining the combatants or the matchups in the Playoffs, they're just milking all of those matchups for every penny they can get.

[DirkAB]

enter calls that could be made on any play being made for revenue purposes. - check


Oh, so the Lakers were getting screwed by the league via the officials, just to avoid sweeps? Does anybody else feel like the Lakers ever got jobbed by the offiating in 2002? You might be the only idiot on the planet that feels that way. Lakers got more than their fare share of calls.

[mabber]

Those are your words, not mine. What I am saying is after 2001 the league went into damage control to ensure revenue. Pretty simple if you ask me.

1. Stop the Lakers dominance.
enter the zone defense - check

2. Sweeps are a loss in revenue for the league and TV.
enter calls that could be made on any play being made for revenue purposes. - check

The NBA is not determining the combatants or the matchups in the Playoffs, they're just milking all of those matchups for every penny they can get.

Yeah, the league didn't like a big market like the Lakers winning so they instituted the zone defense :lol :lol :lol

[clambake]

Lakers can thank Stern for where they find themselves now?

Pay no attention to that teams implosion.

[LakeShow]

Oh, so the Lakers were getting screwed by the league via the officials, just to avoid sweeps? Does anybody else feel like the Lakers ever got jobbed by the offiating in 2002? You might be the only idiot on the planet that feels that way. Lakers got more than their fare share of calls.

You are living proof that man can live without a brain.

[DirkAB]

You are living proof that man can live without a brain.


You're living proof that a man can have a giant gash between his legs.

[LakeShow]

Yeah, the league didn't like a big market like the Lakers winning so they instituted the zone defense :lol :lol :lol

It is perfectly all right to have an unexpressed thought. In your case I even recommend it.

[ChumpDumper]

So the league conspired to get rid of the Lakers in favor of the worst-rated finals of all time to that point.

Brilliant.

[awmyplace]

Ya'll is crazy!

[trueD]

I wont dispute that the lakers got the breaks in game 6 of 2002, had nothing to do with the outcome and like I stated, the kings had game 7 in Sacramento. If they did not choke at the freethrow line, they might have won. End of story!How is it that winning Game 6 didn't have anything to do with the "outcome"? Kings were leading the series 3-2, they win Game 6 and the outcome is much different. :rolleyes

[DirkAB]

So the league conspired to get rid of the Lakers in favor of the worst-rated finals of all time to that point.

Brilliant.

Yeah, that Stern is a sly SOB.

[mabber]

So the league conspired to get rid of the Lakers in favor of the worst-rated finals of all time to that point.

Brilliant.

No doubt...that is one of the dumbest & funniest theories I've ever heard. Thanks for the laugh, Lakeshow1 :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I take it you don't believe that Shaq's dominance was one of the reasons for the zone in the NBA?
Who won the title this year, Einstein?

[DirkAB]

Who won the title this year, Einstein?

And in 2002.

[LakeShow]

Who won the title this year, Einstein?

Obviously Shaq and Miami won it, Shaq won it in 2002 as well, your point?

Shaq, single covered was dominating this league like never before. Throw the ball to him down low, slam dunk everytime. The zone slowed him and allowed players to play in front of him and behind him. No where did I say the league did not want the lakers to be in the playoffs or the finals, I said they didn't want them to totally dominate the series like 2001 for reasons I posted.

[DirkAB]

Obviously Shaq and Miami won it, Shaq won it in 2002 as well, your point?

Shaq, single covered was dominating this league like never before. Throw the ball to him down low, slam dunk everytime. The zone slowed him and allowed players to play in front of him and behind him. No where did I say the league did not want the lakers to be in the playoffs or the finals, I said they didn't want them to totally dominate the series like 2001 for reasons I posted.

Is that also why they made the Hack a Shaq rule?

[greywheel]

I wonder how this poll would have turned out if the question was "Is there 'star treatment' in the NBA?" or "Do NBA officials use makeup calls to correct their mistakes?".
I imagine more people would be free to admit to beleiving in either of this two ideas. But don't both these contribute to an "orchestrated" game?

Also, I believe Lakeshow1 is saying (correct me if I am wrong Lakeshow1) that the league prefers longer series and close games, more so than any particular team winning.

[mabber]

I wonder how this poll would have turned out if the question was "Is there 'star treatment' in the NBA?" or "Do NBA officials use makeup calls to correct their mistakes?".
I imagine more people would be free to admit to beleiving in either of this two ideas. But don't both these contribute to an "orchestrated" game?

Also, I believe Lakeshow1 is saying (correct me if I am wrong Lakeshow1) that the league prefers longer series and close games, more so than any particular team winning.

I definitely believe in the "star treatment" and to a small degree "makeup calls", but other than effecting the game both ways while it's being played it has nothing to do with a game being "rigged" nor even "orchestrated".

[DirkAB]

I wonder how this poll would have turned out if the question was "Is there 'star treatment' in the NBA?" or "Do NBA officials use makeup calls to correct their mistakes?".
I imagine more people would be free to admit to beleiving in either of this two ideas. But don't both these contribute to an "orchestrated" game?



But, "orchestrated" would infer that the refs intentially are trying to manipulate the outcome of the game. I don't believe that at all. I think that superstar treatment is unintentional, refs are human and they aren't immune from being influenced by a players star power. They give stars more respect and rookies less respect. I think that the respect level is what determines how many calls a player gets, and I don't think it is a conscious decision.

[ShackO]

But, "orchestrated" would infer that the refs intentially are trying to manipulate the outcome of the game. I don't believe that at all. I think that superstar treatment is unintentional, refs are human and they aren't immune from being influenced by a players star power. They give stars more respect and rookies less respect. I think that the respect level is what determines how many calls a player gets, and I don't think it is a conscious decision.


This imperial (and antagonistic) state of affairs lasted until Garretson retired and Ed T. Rush became the Director of Officiating in 1998.Here's how Rush defined the attitude that a ref should bring to his work: "We see ourselves as choreographing an athletic event and providing the proper setting where the world's greatest athletes can show their skills." (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44749)

[ShackO]

Obviously Shaq and Miami won it, Shaq won it in 2002 as well, your point?

Shaq, single covered was dominating this league like never before. Throw the ball to him down low, slam dunk everytime. The zone slowed him and allowed players to play in front of him and behind him. No where did I say the league did not want the lakers to be in the playoffs or the finals, I said they didn't want them to totally dominate the series like 2001 for reasons I posted.

I understand your point here and there are several other things the NBA has done over the years but your example seems to imply it was directed @ the show rather than a way "to improve the game"....... A more politically correct term, yet none the less effecting ShaQ prob more than anyone else……..

[DirkAB]

This imperial (and antagonistic) state of affairs lasted until Garretson retired and Ed T. Rush became the Director of Officiating in 1998.Here's how Rush defined the attitude that a ref should bring to his work: "We see ourselves as choreographing an athletic event and providing the proper setting where the world's greatest athletes can show their skills." (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44749)


You have posted that quote like five times now, and it has yet to sway my opinion. Do you really think that is some sort of admission that the refs are rigging the NBA? Or was it just a horribly bad word choice and a stupid thing to say? That is all I see it as, apparently you too, otherwise you wouldn't have voted no in the poll.

[LakeShow]

Also, I believe Lakeshow1 is saying (correct me if I am wrong Lakeshow1) that the league prefers longer series and close games, more so than any particular team winning.

That is exactly what I have been saying.

[LakeShow]

I understand your point here and there are several other things the NBA has done over the years but your example seems to imply it was directed @ the show rather than a way "to improve the game"....... A more politically correct term, yet none the less effecting ShaQ prob more than anyone else……..

Rule changes for dominate centers are not unusual.

Wilt Chamberlain - Chamberlain was such a force that the NBA changed a few of its rules in direct response to his game. These included widening the lane in an attempt to keep him and his finger-roll farther from the goal, implementing the offensive-goaltending rule and revising the rules regarding inbounding and free throws.

Lew Alcindor - The NCAA outlawed the dunk shot because of his dominance at center for UCLA.

When the NBA implemented the zone, imo it was because of Shaq's dominance in the league. It was directed at Shaq and the Lakers dominance. They didn't mind if the lakers won they just didn't want them to barrel thru the league like that again.

I do not attribute any other rule changes for that purpose.

Maybe it was a coincidence that it came at a time when the NBA lost millions because Shaq was dominating and rolling thru teams with ease.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Rigged is a strong word.

Heavily influenced by Stern and his groupies? I strongly believe so.

[ShackO]

You have posted that quote like five times now, and it has yet to sway my opinion. Do you really think that is some sort of admission that the refs are rigging the NBA? Or was it just a horribly bad word choice and a stupid thing to say? That is all I see it as, apparently you too, otherwise you wouldn't have voted no in the poll.


Well I guess I like that term....... :stirpot: .......lol

Poor choice of words????? I don't know about that, as he never made any attempt to clarify or alter those comments as far as I know, so I guess he was good with it...

I am not much of a believer in conspiracy theories so IMO it would be impossible to fix the NBA or even a game.... DO I think that ppl in corp America cheat, fix, steal, lie and so on? Yea... Would they do any of that to make more money if they could. Yea....

[ShackO]

Rule changes for dominate centers are not unusual.

Wilt Chamberlain - Chamberlain was such a force that the NBA changed a few of its rules in direct response to his game. These included widening the lane in an attempt to keep him and his finger-roll farther from the goal, implementing the offensive-goaltending rule and revising the rules regarding inbounding and free throws.

Lew Alcindor - The NCAA outlawed the dunk shot because of his dominance at center for UCLA.

When the NBA implemented the zone, imo it was because of Shaq's dominance in the league. It was directed at Shaq and the Lakers dominance. They didn't mind if the lakers won they just didn't want them to barrel thru the league like that again.

I do not attribute any other rule changes for that purpose.

Maybe it was a coincidence that it came at a time when the NBA lost millions because Shaq was dominating and rolling thru teams with ease.

Personally I am not much for changing rules but then it would be hard to find a time when some rules were not new or altered….

I really hate some of these dress code rules but you gotta take the good with the bad I guess…………

You watching the draft……. They tearing Isaiah a new one………..

[REDLION#22]

I am posting in about two or maybe three active threads right now… BBBbbOOOO!!!!

If I was gay what WTF would I want with you…. Besides ain’t you a women??

It’s a small world even on a big board in the off season….. You shouldn’t flaunt your insecurities especially with all the shit you are talking around here…

Was it the comment about being a Pistons hater??? Surely you aren’t going to deny that..

I will make an effort to avoid your Pistons observations as you already seem to have more than you can handle with them………

Your friend,[/COLOR]
ShackO

shackO showing the world his smartass attitude!!!:lol should we feel intimidated??? :lol :rollin

he thinks im ashamed of hating the pistons :lol :lol :lol
are you kidding me its the REDLION#22 im proud of hating the pistons!!!!!!! :smokin

[awmyplace]

shackO showing the world his smartass attitude!!!:lol should we feel intimidated??? :lol :rollin

he thinks im ashamed of hating the pistons :lol :lol :lol
are you kidding me its the REDLION#22 im proud of hating the pistons!!!!!!! :smokin

They just don't understand.

[REDLION#22]

yes they dont but lets just have some fun with them.

[awmyplace]

yes they dont but lets just have some fun with them.

Yeah Let's have some fun with them.They said that the Miami Heat fans are the worst fans in the Nba.They are the wrost fans in the Nba.

[ShackO]

littleredlion shackO showing the world his smartass attitude!!! should we feel intimidated???

he thinks im ashamed of hating the pistons
are you kidding me its the REDLION#22 im proud of hating the pistons!!!!!!!


LOL............:smokin You have nothing to fear but fear it's self.... :wakeup We all here to have fun......... AAAhh well most of us that is... :eyebrows


Yeah Let's have some fun with them.They said that the Miami Heat fans are the worst fans in the Nba.They are the wrost fans in the Nba.

Let's......... What you girls got in mind??? :sombrero:

[DirkAB]

shackO showing the world his smartass attitude!!!:lol should we feel intimidated??? :lol :rollin



Why would you be intimidated by smartass? You must be a dumbass....or a bitchass.

[awmyplace]

:rolleyes
LOL............:smokin You have nothing to fear but fear it's self.... :wakeup We all here to have fun......... AAAhh well most of us that is... :eyebrows



Let's......... What you girls got in mind??? :sombrero:

[Nbadan]

I think as far as rigging goes, I think the League front-office puts out tapes during each series to the refs and spotlight certain 'issues' that they think need addressing, sometimes they can make a real difference in a close series. None-the-less, I think refs can't help but get caught up in the home-crowd excitement and are more whistle-friendly to home teams with racious crowds (see you do make a difference).

[THE SIXTH MAN]

bump

[Fillmoe]

you know you done fucked up now dont you?