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View Full Version : Mike Monroe: What's the point? 2, 3 or 4



Kori Ellis
10-17-2004, 12:37 AM
Mike Monroe: What's the point? 2, 3 or 4
Web Posted: 10/17/2004 12:00 AM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

NEW YORK — Sorry, Spurs fans.

In spite of what everyone in South Texas and elsewhere knows about Derek Fisher's game-winning shot in game 5 of the Spurs-Lakers Western Conference playoff series in May, the NBA did not revisit its rule relating to when a player can and can't catch and shoot in the final nano-moments of a second of a game.

Or did it?

Not that it would have changed the outcome of Game 5 anyway, but a rules change — say, legislating that a player can't catch and shoot with fewer than five-tenths of a second left — at least would have legitimized the belief that Fisher's shot was, in fact, impossible.

Instead, NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik this weekend said the rule remains the same, while allowing that the league needs to do a better job of educating everyone, from fans to players and even to coaches, about the reality of the final ticks.

That reality, said Granik, is that it takes about two-tenths of a second for even the fast-acting humans to physically hit the button that starts the clock after the eye sees the ball touch a player's hand or hands. So the fact that frame-by-frame televised replays proved that more than four-tenths of a second transpired before Fisher released his fateful shot was immaterial. And, Granik said, the NBA was content to let things remain as they were.

"No. We haven't had any discussion of that (changing the rule)," Granik said, "other than making sure everyone understands. There was some confusion about three-tenths. Some people — mostly commentators — thought the rule said that at three-tenths you don't go to replay and can't catch and shoot. But that's not what the rule book says. It says under three-tenths.

"I think the teams have come to accept that in these situations you can't have perfection, because it does take a human being, from the time you see the ball touch someone's hand and actually triggers it. And to avoid any kind of inappropriate conduct, in those circumstances there are really four people that can start the clock, whichever gets it done first. So you look at the replay and go with it.

"I don't quite know how to explain to everyone that four-tenths is really more like six-tenths, but eventually I think everyone will come to understand that."

Well, maybe yes and maybe no.

In fact, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich was just as adamant that the league did change its end-game rule as Granik was that it had not.

"They did revise it," Popovich said. "They put in a new rule. It's .2 now. They changed it to .2, so if the clock says .2 there can be no shot. It used to be .3. We were all told it was never .3.

"Now, at .3 and .4 and beyond you can score. That's the new rule. You could only tip it at .3 was every coach's understanding. But we've been told that was not the case, that you could have shot that, but there was not a coach in the league that knew that. So you figure that one out. I haven't figured it out yet.

"They keep saying you could always catch and shoot at .3, and 29 coaches felt the opposite. So it's a moot point. They changed it to .2 because of the .4.

"We all know it's impossible to do what happened in .4, but it happened because human reaction is that slow, so it looks bad. If that human reaction is going to be that slow, which it is, and that made it possible for that .4 to be valid, then they had to move it to .2 to make it absolutely clear-cut. Because with human reaction, you can do what "Fish" did. But at point-two it's unequivocal. They're saying you can't

"So it's actually very clear, and it's clear why they did it, and it's understandable."

It just doesn't change what happened at SBC Center in May.

Until someone invents a digital referee that truly can operate in nanoseconds, the system in place really does work pretty well.

"We feel much better than we used to," Granik said, "when we didn't have the instant replay at the end. I was somewhat skeptical of the instant replay, but I think that has worked very well.

"So you've got a rule, and it is what it is, and you follow it and that's going to decide it, one way or the other. At some point you are dealing with such tiny fractions of time you don't even know what's right or wrong. You've just got to have the rule and follow it."

timvp
10-17-2004, 12:40 AM
Right when I had forgotten about .4.

:drunk

iminlakerland
10-17-2004, 12:46 AM
lol timvp

spursfaninla
10-17-2004, 12:47 AM
Ahh, revenge is a dish best served cold.

I can't wait to beat the Lakers by 20 this season. :)

.4 is one of those experiences that change you. Its kinda like that last election...you know it was wrong, and you know what should have happened, but those in power made a decision, and you have to just deal with it.

timvp
10-18-2004, 01:08 AM
Bottomline is it's impossible to catch a ball, land, turn and shoot in .4 seconds. It should have never counted.

But oh well. It's finally a new season.

:smokin

Phenomanul
10-18-2004, 11:33 AM
Bottomline is it's impossible to catch a ball, land, turn and shoot in .4 seconds. It should have never counted.

But oh well. It's finally a new season.

:smokin

My feelings exactly..... though you're also missing the part where he brought the ball from below waist height to above his head before releasing the ball... which makes it all the more impossible......


AH... we will destroy the Lakers this year... even if Kobe ends up dropping 50 on us...

picnroll
10-18-2004, 11:34 AM
So I guess this is one rule that, short a few Lakers fans, we can all agree that FIBA has right.

sickdsm
10-18-2004, 12:09 PM
Steve Bartman was a shame last year for the cubs. Sure, he prolonged the inning, who knows what would have happaned had he not reached for the ball. But it wasn't that one incident that made or broke the cubs back. He didn't make them choke the rest of that game away. He didn't make them lose the deciding game seven. But how come when it comes down to .4, most people here act like it was in game seven? There was four more games to be played and it was the Spurs themselves that ruined it. Why do we feel the need to act as if the spurs would have even been able to close it out at 3-0 when they lost the next three games anyway?

timvp
10-18-2004, 12:13 PM
There was four more games to be played and it was the Spurs themselves that ruined it. Why do we feel the need to act as if the spurs would have even been able to close it out at 3-0 when they lost the next three games anyway?

Nope.

Check your history.

T Park
10-18-2004, 12:47 PM
There was four more games to be played and it was the Spurs themselves that ruined it. Why do we feel the need to act as if the spurs would have even been able to close it out at 3-0 when they lost the next three games anyway?

Huh?

smeagol
10-18-2004, 02:53 PM
Steve Bartman was a shame last year for the cubs. Sure, he prolonged the inning, who knows what would have happaned had he not reached for the ball. But it wasn't that one incident that made or broke the cubs back. He didn't make them choke the rest of that game away. He didn't make them lose the deciding game seven. But how come when it comes down to .4, most people here act like it was in game seven? There was four more games to be played and it was the Spurs themselves that ruined it. Why do we feel the need to act as if the spurs would have even been able to close it out at 3-0 when they lost the next three games anyway?

Are you serious? Is your short term memory (4 months) working?

spurster
10-18-2004, 03:14 PM
Well, if the timekeepers are only accurate to .2 seconds, what's the use of keeping track of tenths then? Give up this pretense of being so accurate, and go back to plain old seconds.

Phenomanul
10-18-2004, 03:28 PM
Tenths of seconds are necessary... I just feel that they should be rounded to the nearest "0.5"

Where only a tip is allowed on the last 0.5 remaining.

sickdsm
10-18-2004, 08:21 PM
My bad, i should have rememberd that it wasn't game three. My point remains the same though. The Spurs had a 2-0 lead, COMPLETELY dominating the lakers yet they themselves lost three OTHER games, like the cubs they lost game six. Also, LIKE Cubs fans tend to, Most spurs fans point to .4 as an injustice that cost them the series, it didn't. Cream rises to the top, whether or not if game six the series was 3-2 or 2-3, it was a new chance.


FWIW, the majority of baseball fans (outside of Chi) tend to think of last years NLCS as the Cubs choking just as the majority of non spurs fans seem to see the same situation.