You Can Go To Jail For This

[AFE7FATMAN]

Unless your Bill Clinton :lol



Randolph AFB officer awaits trial on charge of adultery

Express-News Military Writer

Lt. Col. Christopher T. Kugel was a busy man as deputy commander of Randolph AFB's 12th Mission Support Group.

He helped manage the historic base's 1,058 facilities, 659 military family homes and 5,098 acres of grounds and airfields. When he wasn't doing that, he trained T-6A instructor pilots.

But prosecutors say Kugel, the married father of seven children and one of the base's higher-ranking officers, made time in his packed schedule for trysts with three women — two of them married to airmen — and pursued a fourth.

They say he had sex with them in his office, car and elsewhere on Randolph. One location: a mobile home he owned and kept temporarily on base.

"It's definitely a pretty serious case," the 12th Flying Training Wing's Capt. Heather Kekic said Thursday.

A 19-year Air Force veteran, Kugel has been charged with adultery, obstructing justice, failing to obey orders and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. It's the first time a wing officer has faced such charges in five years, an Air Force spokesperson said.

The trial will begin Aug. 9 at Randolph. He faces 91/2 years in the stockade if convicted.

He has been relieved as deputy commander and is in an administrative job.

Air Force prosecutors have lodged three charges and five specifications against Kugel, 43, of Schertz. They said he pursued sexual liaisons with four women, all Air Force civilian and contract workers. They worked in the 12th Mission Support Group, but it wasn't clear if they reported to him.

Two of them were married to Air Force members, but it was not known if those airmen were officers or enlistees. A document specifying the charges did not offer any details and Kekic said she didn't know. The women's names were blacked out.

Prosecutors wouldn't say if Kugel is accused of having multiple affairs at the same time.

Military defense attorney Maj. Chris Brown wouldn't say if his client denied the charges, and Kugel did not return a phone call to his residence. Brown and prosecutors declined to say if a plea bargain is in the works.

"At this point, I'm not in a position to give out too much information," Brown said.

The obstruction charge alleges that Kugel tried to impede the investigation by asking some of the women to delete or not report e-mails they exchanged.

The adultery charge alleges Kugel had sex with two women from Oct. 1, 2004 to Jan. 20, 2006. One of them was married to an airman, Kekic said.

Before facing charges, Kugel helped supervise an organization that has an annual budget of $97 million and delivers services to 60,000 people on base.

It was a big job, one that put him in the base's command hierarchy and had him on a glide path toward retirement if he wished. But prosecutors say Kugel violated one of the service's core values — integrity.

"We're one of the most respected professions in the United States," Kekic, the 12th Flying Training Wing spokeswoman, said, citing national polls. "Our community has great confidence in the military and because of that our people have to adhere to higher standards."

I wonder if anybody in the Military has ever heard of this happening?
Being charged not the acts :lol




--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[billboardbill]

Now why should anything happend to him when the President of the United States, Clinton, got away with his infidelity.

[xrayzebra]

Why, because he isn't Clinton. And he the Colonel is cooked meat. His career is
finished.

[Crookshanks]

The Uniform Code of Military Justice is pretty clear on this. My ex-husband was an Air Force Officer, with a top-secret security clearance and he had an affair which led to our divorce.

If I had wanted to pursue it, I could have had his security clearance revoked because of the adultery, which would have effectively ended his career.

[billboardbill]

Why is it ok for Clinton to commit adultery, and nothing happens to him, of course he is suppose to be head of the military, but someone else commits adultery, and his job is over? How can you hold other military up to such high standards, and the Head of the Military does not have to conform to the standards........

[Spurminator]

I thought the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal was about perjury?

Isn't that what you guys have been saying this whole time?

[xrayzebra]

I think what BBB is saying is that: why if the commander-in-chief can commit
adultery and not be punished can others in the military be tried for the same crime.

And about Clinton it was about both. Committing adultery and then lying about it
to the World and a court. And you know it.

[Spurminator]

Then maybe you should specify whether you think this particular case is justified or not.

Should Clinton AND Lt. Kugel have been punished for adultery?

Or should neither?

[Spurminator]

And about Clinton it was about both. Committing adultery and then lying about it
to the World and a court. And you know it.

But only one of those is illegal.

[xrayzebra]

But only one of those is illegal.

Not according the UCMJ. Both are consider serious infractions.

[Spurminator]

But you still haven't answered whther you think it SHOULD be.

[xrayzebra]

I made my judgement on Clinton years ago. As far as I know the Lt. Colonel has
not be convicted yet. But if he is, he knew the consequences. You play a game
you go by the rules. I believe it said he had 19 years of service. He damn well
knew the rules. So if convicted, I have no sympathy for him. Only his wife and
SEVEN kids. There is the tragedy. And I suspect that it wont be the end of the
story. There are married women involved and we don't know how many more kids
and they too will face the wrath of their families.

[jochhejaam]

Now why should anything happend to him when the President of the United States, Clinton, got away with his infidelity.
If we asked Clinton I imagine he would say that he didn't get away with it.
(Impeached)

[xrayzebra]

If we asked Clinton I imagine he would say that he didn't get away with it.
(Impeached)

And became a millionaire. He got away with it. But he still has Hillary. So
maybe there is a God in heaven. :lol :rolleyes

[Spurminator]

I made my judgement on Clinton years ago. As far as I know the Lt. Colonel has
not be convicted yet. But if he is, he knew the consequences. You play a game
you go by the rules. I believe it said he had 19 years of service. He damn well
knew the rules. So if convicted, I have no sympathy for him. Only his wife and
SEVEN kids. There is the tragedy. And I suspect that it wont be the end of the
story. There are married women involved and we don't know how many more kids
and they too will face the wrath of their families.


But should adultery be illegal?

[jochhejaam]

And became a millionaire. He got away with it. But he still has Hillary. So
maybe there is a God in heaven. :lol :rolleyes
I know you're being humorous xray but I think he'd gladly give up his millions if it would wipe away the shameful aspects of his legacy.

[clambake]

Not enough jail space if adultery is illegal.

Clinton was not in the military. Funny how you constantly hang your hat on Bills erection!

[xrayzebra]

^^He may be ashamed of his legacy. I have no idea. He always came across to me
as the most insincer person I have ever seen. But, he like all the rest of us, make
our decisions in life and must live with them. Whether we like it or not.

He treated the office of the President like nothing that had been seen or hopefully
will never been see again. He politicized every aspect of Government. Right down
to the 500 FBI files to look into his rivals past and the travel office of the White
House. We are still paying to this day for his deeds. Witness the NYT leaker and
NSA leaker. But no matter. He was the President and that is a fact. And what
he did is a fact.

[clambake]

How much senseless death and destruction did all that create? Can you give me any figures on that?

[billboardbill]

The President is head of the military...........

[jochhejaam]

The President is head of the military...........
Good point bbb.

[xrayzebra]

How much senseless death and destruction did all that create? Can you give me any figures on that?

Where would like to start.

WTC
Barracks in Saudi Arabia
Mogadishu
Embassies
USS Cole
Destruction of a young womans life
Rape of another lady

Those are just what I took off the top of my head.

[clambake]

WTC? That's a reach. You forgot the pentagon. Bill's fault too, you guess. Yep, clintons responsible for all terror acts. Even the olympics. Suicide attackers? Bill's idea.

I've always wondered what Bill would have done if he knew those attacks were coming.

Destruction and rape of women? Funny stuff zebra.

[ChumpDumper]

So you wanted Ike in prison too, right?

Right?

[FromWayDowntown]

The President is head of the military...........

The President is not subject to the UCMJ, which suggests to me that the President cannot be prosecuted for violations of military law.

[ChumpDumper]

Had this guy not fucked other airmen's wives on the base, this woldn't have happened.

And this attempted Clinton connection is weak. Show me the adultry law that applies to Presidents or STFU.

[jochhejaam]

Had this guy not fucked other airmen's wives on the base, this woldn't have happened.
:spless:

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, sorry I left the U out of wouldn't. Fact remains this was pretty brazen.

[jochhejaam]

Yeah, sorry I left the U out of wouldn't. Fact remains this was pretty brazen.
I think you probably already know this but I was joking about the obviousness of your point.

I don't mess with peoples spelling, grammar or punctuation, that usually keeps them off my back about the same.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, I was talking about the prosecution. Were it not airmen's wives or not being carried out on base fewer folks would care.

[mike detroit]

The President is head of the military...........

but not IN the military. The system is purposely set up so that the commander in chief is a civillian. don't you guys have american history classes down there?

[DarkReign]

but not IN the military. The system is purposely set up so that the commander in chief is a civillian. don't you guys have american history classes down there?

Youre asking a people who inhabit a state that still feels it should be an independant nation, yet has supplied three Presidents for the Union.

Go figure.

[xrayzebra]

WTC? That's a reach. You forgot the pentagon. Bill's fault too, you guess. Yep, clintons responsible for all terror acts. Even the olympics. Suicide attackers? Bill's idea.

I've always wondered what Bill would have done if he knew those attacks were coming.

Destruction and rape of women? Funny stuff zebra.

No you forgot WTC 1993. But the 9/11 incident can be laid at his feet
also. Remember the guy stuffing papers in his socks. Wonder why that
was. You know Burglar. but just to satisfy you. WTC happen twice,
the first time 1993. As far as I know Bush wasn't President was he. But
guess you could blame him. And people did die in that act of terror.

[ChumpDumper]

But the 9/11 incident can be laid at his feet also.So Clinton was active military when he got a blowjob and still serving as President (and active military, one must presume) on September 11.

[clambake]

We caught those first guys. tisk,tisk. Intelligence does matter when you choose to accept it.(something george just can't do regarding anything).

Please consult with nester before replying. You should include your flock.

[Yonivore]

Then maybe you should specify whether you think this particular case is justified or not.

Should Clinton AND Lt. Kugel have been punished for adultery?

Or should neither?
The reasons for this being an offense in the military are obvious and, during wartime, very relevant.

Anything a member of the armed forces does that compromises his integrity or makes him vulnerable to blackmail by anyone -- including enemy agents -- should be cause for concern and swift action.

Same goes for the Commander in Chief. Add to the fact that he perjured himself, and suborned perjury by others, in an effort to deny Paula Jones her due process rights, and you have a pretty solid case against him.

Too bad the Senate chickened out.

[ChumpDumper]

Same goes for the Commander in Chief.Show me the adultery statute for Presidents.

[boutons_]

"nothing happens to him,"

huh? He was humiliated, pilloried, and then fucking impeached, but the Senate Repugs went flaccid.

The Air Force officers are better than the rest of us and never dip their pens in forbidden ink? Right, keep believing their press releases. Hypocrits.

[Yonivore]

Show me the adultery statute for Presidents.
Okay Chumpy, follow the bouncing cursor...


Anything a member of the armed forces does that compromises his integrity or makes him vulnerable to blackmail by anyone -- including enemy agents -- should be cause for concern and swift action.

Same goes for the Commander in Chief.
First, note the use of the word "should." Second, I never mentioned the word adultery but proposed a broader idea that anything a military person or the President does that makes them vulnerable to blackmail should be cause for concern and swift action.

The President's perjury and suborning perjury and obstruction of justice were the vehicles through which that swift action could have been exercised. But, alas, the Senate chickened out.

Nice conclusion-jumping there.

[ChumpDumper]

Why was Clinton even asked about the blowjob?

Was Starr appointed to investigate blowjobs?

My conclusion is it was an enormous waste of time and money.

[clambake]

another repug proposing what should be. yipee

[Yonivore]

Why was Clinton even asked about the blowjob?
To establish that he was engaged in sexual activity with women other than his wife (probably exclusive of his wife). It was relevant to the sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Paula Jones.

Was Starr appointed to investigate blowjobs?
No, he was appointed to investigate the Whitewater scam. When he uncovered other potential law violations by the President, he took his information back to the three-judge panel, appointed by Janet Reno, who then ordered him to pursue the tangential investigation related to the President's perjury and obstruction of justice in the Paula Jones lawsuit.

My conclusion is it was an enormous waste of time and money.
That's my conclusion as well...particularly since he wasn't brought to justice and thrown out of office.

Arkansas, on the other hand, saw fit to revoke his law license for the offenses.

[Yonivore]

another repug proposing what should be. yipee
So, you think it's okay for a President to have skeletons in his closet that may be exploited by the enemy?

Yeah, that's smart.

[clambake]

Zebra, let's examine your logic.

Bush jr. in office, 911 clintons fault.
Clinton in office, 93 WTC bombing bush sr. fault.

I don't blame your logic. It's what you have been programmed to repeat.

[clambake]

Are you refering to an enemy that believes there are 40 virgins waiting for them after death?

Please.

[Yonivore]

Are you refering to an enemy that believes there are 40 virgins waiting for them after death?

Please.
Any enemy.

Maybe it's why Clinton was so free with our nuclear technology and gave most of our secrets to China.

Maybe it's why he refused to bring Osama bin Laden to justice when he had the chance.

Maybe it's why he was reluctant to do anything about global terrorism during his eight years in office.

Who will ever know?

And, I thought it was 72 virgins. Are they running short?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, thanks for admitting it was a fishing expedition.
That's my conclusion as well...particularly since he wasn't brought to justice and thrown out of office.Too bad for you lying about a blowjob doesn't rise to the level of high crime or misdemeanor.

[Yonivore]

Zebra, let's examine your logic.

Bush jr. in office, 911 clintons fault.
Clinton in office, 93 WTC bombing bush sr. fault.

I don't blame your logic. It's what you have been programmed to repeat.
Actually, I blame all Presidents going back to Jimmy Carter who failed to obliterate the Iranian regime after they attacked the U.S. Embassy.

I blame Ronald Reagan for not responding to the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon.

I blame George H. W. Bush for agreeing not to continue on to Baghdad simply so he could operate out of Saudi Arabia.

And, yes, I blame Clinton who failed to respond to the many opportunities to defeat global terrorism after the '93 bombing of the WTC and the '00 attack on the USS Cole.

The current President is the first to adequately respond to Islamo-fascism.

[Yonivore]

Well, thanks for admitting it was a fishing expedition.Too bad for you lying about a blowjob doesn't rise to the level of high crime or misdemeanor.
Actually the perjury he committed was a felony.

Again, you misread. I never said it was a fishing expedition; only that it represented a waste of time because the Senate failed to convict.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually the perjury he committed was a felony.But not a high crime or misdemeanor, apparently. I guess you have the definietion for that one.
Again, you misread. I never said it was a fishing expedition; only that it represented a waste of time because the Senate failed to convict.I completely understand you only think it's a waste of time because it didn't end up the way you wanted it to.

[Yonivore]

But not a high crime or misdemeanor, apparently. I guess you have the definietion for that one.I completely understand you only think it's a waste of time because it didn't end up the way you wanted it to.
Actually, it did rise to the level of high crime or misdemeanor. He was impeached.


Article the Second, Section Four. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

The Senate just failed to convict. But, since he was impeached, the charge had to have been "for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanor."

So, you tell me, which was it?

[ChumpDumper]

Since he was not convicted, it's pretty obvious.

[Yonivore]

Since he was not convicted, it's pretty obvious.
You're pretty slow so I'll type slow.

Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean the offense for which he WAS impeached wasn't a high crime or misdemeanor. If it had not risen to that level the House would not have impeached.

The section of the constitution says that the President shall be removed from office upon impeachment AND conviction of such. Since only one of the requirements was met, he wasn't removed from office. However, that doesn't mean the offense he was accused of didn't rise to the level of high crime or misdemeanor -- just that the Senate failed to convict him of such.

The way you're framing your argument would be the same as if saying just because O. J. Simpson wasn't convicted of murder then what happened to his ex-wife and Ronald Goldman didn't constitute a murder. Yeah, I know, pretty outrageous...but, that's what you're arguing.

President Clinton perjured himself, he suborned perjury, and he obstructed justice. For this he was impeached. Just because the Senate didn't convict doesn't mean perjury, suborning perjury or obstructing justice are not high crimes or misdemeanors.

[ChumpDumper]

So why didn't they convict?

What were the reasons given by the Republicans who didn't vote to convict?

[Yonivore]

So why didn't they convict?

What were the reasons given by the Republicans who didn't vote to convict?
I don't recall, but I believe they did not convict for political reasons.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't recall, but I believe they did not convict for political reasons.

And the impeachment was clearly based only on objective standards for measuring whether an act constitutes a high crime or misdemeanor, right?

[ChumpDumper]

Could it be that the Senate decided that the House was wrong to impeach because the crimes did not rise to the level of impeachment?

Is that possible?

Yes or no.

[Yonivore]

Could it be that the Senate decided that the House was wrong to impeach because the crimes did not rise to the level of impeachment?

Is that possible?

Yes or no.
Possible? sure. But, the fact remains he was impeached. And, the fact also remains that an independent body revoked his law license for those crimes -- not for being impeached.

[ChumpDumper]

Possible? sure. But, the fact remains he was impeached.That just proves the House Republicans didn't like him.

As for rising to the level? I'll go with the experts:

ON A `JURY' OF 12 constitutional law professors, all but two told The National Law Journal that, from a constitutional standpoint, President Clinton should not be impeached for the things Independent Counsel Kenneth W. Starr claims he did.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r105:1:./temp/~r105UbnQA3:e150915:

[FromWayDowntown]

That just proves the House Republicans didn't like him.

As for rising to the level? I'll go with the experts:

ON A `JURY' OF 12 constitutional law professors, all but two told The National Law Journal that, from a constitutional standpoint, President Clinton should not be impeached for the things Independent Counsel Kenneth W. Starr claims he did.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r105:1:./temp/~r105UbnQA3:e150915:

Constitutional law professors bring biases to those sorts of determinations and are notoriously political. Unlike elected representatives.

[Yonivore]

That just proves the House Republicans didn't like him.
No, it proves the House impeached him.


As for rising to the level? I'll go with the experts:

ON A `JURY' OF 12 constitutional law professors, all but two told The National Law Journal that, from a constitutional standpoint, President Clinton should not be impeached for the things Independent Counsel Kenneth W. Starr claims he did.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r105:1:./temp/~r105UbnQA3:e150915:
Are there only 12 constitutional law professors? And, are they the same ones that got their asses handed to them when they wrote that letter claiming the NSA program was unconstitutional?

[ChumpDumper]

No, it proves the House impeached him.A ridiculously partisan house.
Are there only 12 constitutional law professors? And, are they the same ones that got their asses handed to them when they wrote that letter claiming the NSA program was unconstitutional?I doubt it, but your trying to change the subject is expected.

[boutons_]

" In her complaint initiating the suit, Ms. Jones alleged violations of her federal civil rights in 1991 by President Clinton when he was governor of Arkansas and she was an Arkansas state employee. According to the allegations, Governor Clinton invited Ms. Jones to his hotel room where he made a crude sexual advance that she rejected."

"On April 1, 1998, Judge Susan Webber Wright granted summary judgment in favor of President Clinton, dismissing the Jones suit in its entirety, finding that Ms. Jones had not offered any evidence to support a viable claim of sexual harassment or intentional infliction of emotion distress. Ms. Jones appealed Judge Wright's decision to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, but before a decision on the appeal was rendered, Ms. Jones and the President settled the case on November 13, 1998."


Just like monopoly law and prosecutions, ALL impeachments are political.

Tripp's contribution showed the the sex between Clinton and Lewinsky was fully consensual, even provoked by Lewinsky. As such, it had no bearing on the accusation that Clinton made unwanted sexual advances to Jones. ie, the question to Clinton about consensual sex with Lewinsky should have never been asked/allowed.

[Yonivore]

A ridiculously partisan house.
Your characterization, not mine.


I doubt it, but your trying to change the subject is expected.
I was merely pointing out that you can cherry-pick "experts" for any position you like.

[xrayzebra]

" In her complaint initiating the suit, Ms. Jones alleged violations of her federal civil rights in 1991 by President Clinton when he was governor of Arkansas and she was an Arkansas state employee. According to the allegations, Governor Clinton invited Ms. Jones to his hotel room where he made a crude sexual advance that she rejected."

"On April 1, 1998, Judge Susan Webber Wright granted summary judgment in favor of President Clinton, dismissing the Jones suit in its entirety, finding that Ms. Jones had not offered any evidence to support a viable claim of sexual harassment or intentional infliction of emotion distress. Ms. Jones appealed Judge Wright's decision to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, but before a decision on the appeal was rendered, Ms. Jones and the President settled the case on November 13, 1998."


Just like monopoly law and prosecutions, ALL impeachments are political.

Tripp's contribution showed the the sex between Clinton and Lewinsky was fully consensual, even provoked by Lewinsky. As such, it had no bearing on the accusation that Clinton made unwanted sexual advances to Jones. ie, the question to Clinton about consensual sex with Lewinsky should have never been asked/allowed.

Your argument is not too sound. First, Clinton settled,
wonder why? He had fought for years, then just gives up.
I don't think so.

Your second argument is one that pedophile sometimes use
about Children. They came on to me and I couldn't resist.

[clambake]

Good thing we started this bogus war to take our minds off blowjobs!

And thanks mr. bush for creating more terrorist than exterminating.

[ChumpDumper]

Your characterization, not mine.What is your characterization of that house?
I was merely pointing out that you can cherry-pick "experts" for any position you like.Well, show me your links for 8 pro-impeachment profs and we'll be even.

[jochhejaam]

And thanks mr. bush for creating more terrorist than exterminating.
Yeah, why didn't he just leave them to their own devices (that would be training an ever-burgeoning, well armed legion of heavily financed, American hating, trained terrorists) and stick to the battle plan of trying to figure who to retaliate against after mind boggling terrorist attacks on our homeland.
What was he thinkin'?!?

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe he could've just finished the job in Afghanistan then gone after Osama. Remember that guy?

[jochhejaam]

Maybe he could've just finished the job in Afghanistan then gone after Osama. Remember that guy?
And we would have all lived happily ever after.

[ChumpDumper]

No, those missions would indeed be accomplished rather than festering.

[jochhejaam]

No, those missions would indeed be accomplished rather than festering.
And you know that how?

[ChumpDumper]

Call me an optimist....

[Yonivore]

Call me an optimist....
Oh, I think we all have a name for you and, it ain't optimist. :elephant

[jochhejaam]

Call me an optimist....
Okay but optimism doesn't win battles.

[ChumpDumper]

Okay but optimism doesn't win battles.A concentration of forces and resources would do it though. As it is we can't even get the National Guard committed to "protect" our borders now that we're spread so thin.

[jochhejaam]

A concentration of forces and resources would do it though.

Does the Pentagon know about this Afghan war-winning strategy?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, Rummy nixed the overwhelming force strategy in Iraq -- I'm sure they had other options in Afghanistan too.

[clambake]

Jaam say leave them to own devices. Jaam brain don't get concept of bushy actions causing creation of more US haters. Jammy say i lub dubya.

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, the three people left who support the invasion of Iraq have circled the wagons and can't allow for one iota of criticism of Bushie's foreign policy.

[jochhejaam]

Jaam say leave them to own devices. Jaam brain don't get concept of bushy actions causing creation of more US haters. Jammy say i lub dubya.
Neaderthal post! Clams, be duly advised that you are in direct violation of political forum rule r495824.5 and you are hereby dishonorably dismissed from this thread.

[scott]

Excellent... we HAVEN'T forgotten...

CLINTON.

BLOWJOB.

WHITEHOUSE.