Mexican Election: Caldron (PAN) leads Olberto (PRD)

[Nbadan]

By about 330,000 votes with about 60% of the ballots counted. Looks like the nightmare scenario some were predicting, a repeat of the triller of 1988 may be happening.

[Nbadan]

To close to call, but I bet FAUX News has already called it for Caldron...


A fiery leftist promising a war on poverty was in a dead heat with a Harvard-educated conservative in Mexico's presidential election on Sunday, raising fears a contested result could split the country.

Luis Carlos Ugalde, the country's top election official, said it was impossible to separate the leading candidates and there would be no result until at least Wednesday.

"The gap between the first and second place is very narrow, and so it is not possible to announce the winning candidate," Ugalde said in a national televised address.

Exit polls said it was a neck and neck race between Felipe Calderon of the ruling National Action Party and Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the left-wing former mayor of Mexico City.

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060703/wl_nm/mexico_election_dc_16)

[Nbadan]

Pan (Caldron) Continues to hold its small lead according to El Universal (http://prep.eluniversal.com.mx/) with almost 86% of the vote counted.

[smeagol]

You've managed to misspell both candidates' names.

[Ya Vez]

By LISA J. ADAMS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 2 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY - Two bitter rivals declared themselves Mexico's next president Monday as a preliminary tally showed the ruling-party candidate with a razor-thin lead, sparking fears of violence and financial turmoil.

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An official count was expected to take days.

The two candidates were separated by fewer than a half-million votes, with more than 36 million counted in a preliminary tally. Conservative Felipe Calderon had 36.46 percent to leftist Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador's 35.41 percent, according to results from 95.9 percent of polling places.

calderon still leading... put dan on suicide watch....

[smeagol]

Thank God Mexico is not falling under the new political wave Latin America is falling, with idiots such as Chavez, Morales and Kirchner taking power.

[jochhejaam]

It's probably good for the U.S. that Calderon wins, the AP reported that Obrador could have been another Hugo Chavez.

[Crookshanks]

Yes, but will he seriously address the illegal immigration issue?

[jochhejaam]

Yes, but will he seriously address the illegal immigration issue?
My understanding is that neither candidate had much to say about I.I.

[2centsworth]

Does it really matter who wins?

[Nbadan]

You've managed to misspell both candidates' names.

Calderon and Obrador. There feel better?

:hat

[xrayzebra]

All I want to know: who is Carter and the dimm-o-craps going to send down to
count the hanging chads? This election is a long way from over. Who ever is
declared winner, the other folks are going to be up in arms. Helllllllooooo.......
Florida and Ohio......

[Nbadan]

The polls are so close, one party or the other is gonna be chapped.

[xrayzebra]

^^Chapped......LOL......understatement if I ever heard one.

[Ocotillo]

sounds like a job for Diebold. :lol

[smeagol]

Yes, but will he seriously address the illegal immigration issue?
This is the least of Mexico's problem.

[Yonivore]

sounds like a job for Diebold. :lol
Send in Jimmy Carter.

[ObiwanGinobili]

This is the least of Mexico's problem.

Obrador had promised to help the poor.
that would be nice.... for someone to actually give a crap about the crushing poverty rampent in mexico.

of course alot of politicians promise a bunch of shit during the election, not all follow thru.


dam nrthis is a nail biter.

[Ya Vez]

you will always have to poor.... hell even in the great socialist states of North Korea, Cuba and China.. there are thousands of poor people..... socialism the equalizer of the rich and poor.... LMAO....

[xrayzebra]

Has everyone heard the latest being put out. How wonderful the Mexican voting
system is and we should adopt here in the US.

Just a few problems.

1. Ballots are in only one language. Mexican

2. You must have photo ID to vote.

3. You got to put you finger in the ink when you vote.

Now you know the dimm-o-craps are against all that. Don't you. It just
isnt the right thing to do. Infringes on peoples rights.

EXCEPT IN MEXICO.

right Dan?

And the leftist running in Mexico is going the Al Gore way, lets count everything
again and again, until I win.

[xrayzebra]

you will always have to poor.... hell even in the great socialist states of North Korea, Cuba and China.. there are thousands of poor people..... socialism the equalizer of the rich and poor.... LMAO....

I thought they were starving in N. Korea, well except for aid they receive
from the mean old Capitalist.

[smeagol]

Obrador had promised to help the poor.
Everybody can say they will help the poor. But more important is for him to tell us how he will do it. And even more important is that it has to make sense.

I don't think he has done this.

[smeagol]

1. Ballots are in only one language. Mexican
Mexican is not a language, ignorante.

[1369]

Mexican is not a language, ignorante.

From a recent time I had a guy from my company (Emigrated to the U.S. legally from Mexico) over in Spain and the confused looks he got trying his best to translate for me over there, I beg to differ. :lol

[Nbadan]

With 95.06% of the vote counted Obrator leads Calderon by .55 points - 36.14 to 35.32.

El Universal (http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html)

[SA210]

Mexican is not a language, ignorante.
That's all xray is worried about, that they are "Mexican".
That's how he thinks and he's ok with that.

[xrayzebra]

Mexican is not a language, ignorante.

The hell it isn't. Tell that to the folks along the border. Mex-Tex, ever
heard of it.

Yeah, I know they print it in Spanish, but some on this board would not
have understood that.


:lol

[xrayzebra]

Mexican is not a language, ignorante.

By the way the word is spelled: Ignorant. But you got close.
:angel

[xrayzebra]

That's all xray is worried about, that they are "Mexican".
That's how he thinks and he's ok with that.

Oh, and the folks in Mexico aren't Mexican. I didn't know that. Gee
thanks for informing us of that fact.

[DarkReign]

Serious question:

Why the fuck do Americans care who is the President of Mexico? Unless youre a huge corporation working the citizens of that country at slave-wage, it doesnt affect you.

[Ya Vez]

the Spanish-speaking world is very diverse. Spanish is the language of 19 separate countries and Puerto Rico. This means that there is no one standard dialect...

[Yonivore]

Serious question:

Why the fuck do Americans care who is the President of Mexico? Unless youre a huge corporation working the citizens of that country at slave-wage, it doesnt affect you.
One word: Immigration.

[smeagol]

The hell it isn't. Tell that to the folks along the border. Mex-Tex, ever
heard of it.

Yeah, I know they print it in Spanish, but some on this board would not
have understood that.


:lol
Do you speak American?

No, you speak English, bobo.

Mexican is not language. Period.

[smeagol]

By the way the word is spelled: Ignorant. But you got close.
:angel
Nah . . .

I spelled it in Spanish and in Italian just for you.

[DarkReign]

One word: Immigration.

Youre that concerned? I thought you <3 GWB? He likes illegals.

[xrayzebra]

Do you speak American?

No, you speak English, bobo.

Mexican is not language. Period.

No I speak American. And it is a distinct Language. Many American words
are pronounced differently than British English. Laboratory is one of them,
Tomatoes and Potatoes are two others. Many words have different meanings.
Like Queer, means being sick in England. To get knocked up means to be
awakened in England and others words. Try kicking someone in the fanny in
England can get you in very bad trouble. It is not a nice word.

And you don't have much a knowledge about the border area. But you
try.

Oh, and one word I would love for you to hear pronounced in is the
enunciation of the word: Aluminium.

[xrayzebra]

One word: Immigration.

Another word. OIL!

[smeagol]

No I speak American. And it is a distinct Language. Many American words
are pronounced differently than British English. Laboratory is one of them,
Tomatoes and Potatoes are two others. Many words have different meanings.
Like Queer, means being sick in England. To get knocked up means to be
awakened in England and others words. Try kicking someone in the fanny in
England can get you in very bad trouble. It is not a nice word.

And you don't have much a knowledge about the border area. But you
try.

Oh, and one word I would love for you to hear pronounced in is the
enunciation of the word: Aluminium.
American is not a distinct language. It's not a dialect either. You speak English. Get it through that thick skull of yours.

Same thing happens in Canada, NZ, Australia, England, Scotland, Ireland, etc, etc. In those countries, people speak English.

In Mexico, they don't speak Mexican, in Argentina they don't speak Argentine, in Venezuela they don't speak Venezuelan, in Uruguay they don't speak Uruguayan (you get the picture?). They speak Spanish.

Hope the issue is clear now.

[xrayzebra]

American is not a distinct language. It's not a dialect either. You speak English. Get it through that thick skull of yours.

Same thing happens in Canada, NZ, Australia, England, Scotland, Ireland, etc, etc. In those countries, people speak English.

In Mexico, they don't speak Mexican, in Argentina they don't speak Argentine, in Venezuela they don't speak Venezuelan, in Uruguay they don't speak Uruguayan (you get the picture?). They speak Spanish.

Hope the issue is clear now.


What ever rings your bell.......

[xrayzebra]

Well no surprise, the lefty in Mexico doesn't like the results of the election so
he is telling his followers to take to the streets. And he is going to court and
no doubt demand a recount and another recount and another recount until he
gets the results he wants, otherwise he will attempt to shut down the country.

Ah, yes, just like a good left winger. Bet he called Al the Gore and the other
dimms to find the best strategy.

Forgot to say, he said this all in Mexican. :lol

[2centsworth]

Serious question:

Why the fuck do Americans care who is the President of Mexico? Unless youre a huge corporation working the citizens of that country at slave-wage, it doesnt affect you.
it's not the "evil" corporations that works them at a slave-wage, it's their own people.

[sabar]

People in the United states speak the English language, people in Mexico speak Spanish. But "American" and "Mexican" are indeed dialects of English and Spanish, repsectively.

Technically the dialect of English here in the states is American English, not English. There is British English, Canadian English and so forth. And yes, there is Mexican Spanish. My mother speaks Central American Spanish. And these languages are really different. Many British people have no clue what some things mean in American English, and the other way around. They almost are seperate languages.

[smeagol]

People in the United states speak the English language, people in Mexico speak Spanish. But "American" and "Mexican" are indeed dialects of English and Spanish, repsectively.

Technically the dialect of English here in the states is American English, not English. There is British English, Canadian English and so forth. And yes, there is Mexican Spanish. My mother speaks Central American Spanish. And these languages are really different. Many British people have no clue what some things mean in American English, and the other way around. They almost are seperate languages.
So true.

I have many friends from Mexico, Venezuela, Ecuador and many other LatAm countries, and I cannot communicate with them. I have to use sign language.

And when I watch a movie with British actors, I need subtitles to understand what the hell they're saying.

:rolleyes

[smeagol]

Back to the topic. Obrador is behaving like a true idiot. He can't accept defeat so now he will muddy the waters with allegations of fraud.

Another moron from the LatAm left.

[Yonivore]

Back to the topic. Obrador is behaving like a true idiot. He can't accept defeat so now he will muddy the waters with allegations of fraud.

Another moron from the LatAm left.
Kind of like the morons from the American Left. Is his middle name Gore?

[smeagol]

Kind of like the morons from the American Left. Is his middle name Gore?
Huh?

Gore >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chavez

[valluco]

No I speak American.
You Cherokee, xray?

[xrayzebra]

You Cherokee, xray?

I am Texan. And your claim to fame?

[Nbadan]

An amusing piece from the Washington Post regarding the close Mexican Presidential election

It Couldn't Happen Here
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, July 7, 2006; Page A17


Mexico is in a mess because voters in its presidential election were so closely divided between Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the candidate of the center-left, and Felipe Calderón, the center-right candidate who was declared the narrow winner yesterday.

As a result, there are charges of theft and miscounts, of "grave inconsistencies." López Obrador has insisted that the authorities "help clear up any doubts" and "not allow

Let's be clear: There's nothing wrong with Mexico's voters. Close elections happen. The test of a democracy is how a bitter dispute of this sort is resolved. Can it be settled in a way that enhances confidence in the electoral process and the legitimacy of the ultimate winner?

Mexicans have one thing going for them: There is no question under Mexican law that the winner of the popular vote will be the winner of the election.

Imagine the global outcry if Mexico chose its president indirectly through some sort of electoral college that gave advantage to smaller states over bigger ones and permitted the loser of the popular vote to become president. The world would be merciless in deriding Mexico as a backward place living under undemocratic laws written in the early 19th century. Mexicans can be proud that this won't happen.

But there are potential problems. López Obrador has had questions about the results in the state of Tabasco. Mr. Calderón and Mr. López Obrador, please, please make sure that you don't have some close relative in charge of things down there.

How would it look if the governor of the state was your own brother? What would people think if the top official in charge of elections was your sibling's partisan ally who made every key decision in your favor?

The American media would go nuts. On Fox, Bill O'Reilly would condemn the sleaze and nepotism while declaring, confidently, "Thank God such a thing could never happen in the United States of America!" CNN's Lou Dobbs would add a "Broken Ballot Boxes" segment to his long-running series on "Broken Borders." Mexico, don't go down that road.

Another thing: Whichever one of you is ahead at any given point, please don't ask that the counting be stopped abruptly just because you happen to hold the lead. Don't have some high-class lawyer with a name like Jaime A. Panadero III come out and say things like, "I don't believe that the people of Mexico want this national election turned over to lawyers and court contests" -- and then have the very same lawyer direct other lawyers to go to court to stop any further counts.

If either of you did such a thing, wouldn't it look hypocritical? Would it not seem as if all you cared about was obtaining power -- and that you didn't care how you got it? It would spoil the legitimacy of your election.

But, yes, there is an excellent chance that the Mexican election will end up in the courts. So it will be very important that the court rulings have credibility with the Mexican people, especially with those who end up on the losing side. The judges should exercise their power, well, judiciously. They need to make sure that they're not seen as making a partisan call.

Above all, this means not stopping recounts just before a deadline -- and then claiming, after the court-imposed delay, that there was no way to remedy the very problems in the counting that the court itself might have noted because the deadline had passed.

It means that the judges should arrive at whatever decision they reach in a way that's consistent with their past views. They should not invent wholly new doctrines, utterly at odds with their previous positions, that happen to favor the candidate closer to their own ideological inclinations.

And, please, let there be no court decision so unprincipled that the judges themselves have to say that their ruling has no application to any future cases, that it "is limited to the present circumstances," because of the "many complexities" involved. That would make the whole court process look fixed, wouldn't it?

My Mexican friends could well object that it is insulting and ludicrous to presume that their country is capable of coming up with such a nightmarish scenario. They would argue that no well-functioning democracy would ever settle a contested election in the ways I have just described. I agree wholeheartedly. So here's hoping that Mexicans manage to resolve this voting dispute in a way that does credit to their nation, and offers a model for those democracies that could use a little help.

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/06/AR2006070601549.html)

[smeagol]

Fucking Obrador, can't take defeat like a man.

Fucking Latin American leftist can all go fuck themselves!

[Yonivore]

Fucking Obrador, can't take defeat like a man.

Fucking Latin American leftist can all go fuck themselves!
He took lessons from Algore.

[Nbadan]

A 'few' people in Mexico disagree with you...


http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060708/i/r3068821372.jpg


Election officials say Calderon beat Lopez Obrador by less than 244,000 votes out of a total of 41 million ballots — or a margin of about 0.6 percent.

"We are never going to recognize this man (Calderon)," said Apolinario Fernandez, 37, a teacher from Lopez Obrador's home state of Tabasco in the southeast. "If he wants, let him govern in the north for the rich, but not in the south."

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060708/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_elections)

Some of us know how they feel. :depressed

[Nbadan]

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/07/09/portada.jpg

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/07/09/portada-04.jpg

Well, at least they're flying the Mexican flag.

[Nbadan]

Despite what the Express-News and other U.S. papers say, Calderon has not won anything yet...

Mexico: Calderón Hasn't Won
By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted July 10, 2006.


It's already become fashionable to compare Mexico's 2006 vote with the impasse that followed Florida's contested race in 2000. There are many differences, but one stands out: there's no Al Gore in this race. Liberal Andre Manuel López Obrador, of the Democratic Revolutionary Party (PRD), is not going to go down without a fight. Millions of frustrated Mexicans who had pinned their hopes on "AMLO" will have his back.

The media have been dutiful stenographers for the Calderón campaign and reported that López Obrador's call for massive (but peaceful) protests demanding a fair count is somehow bad for Mexican democracy. Millions of frustrated Americans, having seen spineless capitulation from Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004 would no doubt disagree.

Crucial to the mainstream narrative is that conservative candidate Felipe Calderón has won the election -- that the National Action Party (PAN) candidate took it in a squeaker. Yes, there are reports of "irregularities," we're told, but the vote was clean and López Obrador's protests only prove that he's a sore loser who simply won't accept the outcome of a close loss (sound familiar?).

That narrative is wrong for one simple reason: nobody has won Mexico's presidential election. Regardless of what the New York Times or Mexico's Federal Electoral Institute (IFE) claim, the results aren't in. Under Mexican law, only the Federal Electoral Tribunal, know by its Spanish acronym TRIFE, can say who will serve as Mexico's next president.

Alertnet (http://www.alternet.org/story/38727/)