Dave vs. Shaq (their last Championships)

[polandprzem]

We all know how David Robinson was not David Robinson in 2003 NBA Finals and how his stats were so bad that he can't be considered as the guy who was the second option in San Antonio squad. Although his defens was good he wasn't able to contribute like we wanted and this championship is not taken serious in his NBA career helping him to be in the elite top5 centers in history.
We all know how important Shaq was in 2006, a year when he won a championship. He was dominat force and the best center in the leauge, and still Most dominat Ever if he wants to (rolleyes emoticon).

So I wanted to checkout the stats. How those Centers looking in their stats.
I couldn't find any site where those number could be ( if anyone know such a site call me or PM me).
I could fucked up some numbers but I don't think so.

Okay:

Dave

26.8 minutes per game
10.8 pts/game
7.3 reb/game
0.67 ass/game
1.83 blks/game
61.1% Field Goals

Shaq

35 minutes per game
13.6 pts/game
10.2 reb/game
2.83 ass/game
0.5 blks/game
63% Field Goals


Yes - Shaq stats looks better esp. taking the assists stat, so Shaq is still better in taht last finals matchup. However when Dave was holding the Trophy he was 38 years young while Shaq in 2006 was 34 years old.

Still those assists. But take a look who was the assist maker in San Antonio - Tim Duncan another froncourt player who was absorbing not only the attencion but field at postup as well. The same thing can be talked about the rebounds. Nobody from the Miami froncourt was not a beast like Timmy that year crashing the boards. What's Dave's advantege is also his play in defensive end, but maybe Miami had different style of play. (damn I still must to watch those Finals - ohh maybe in September)

Maybe more adequat will be when we can take a look at their numbers per 48 minutes ?

Dave

19.34 pts
13.07 rebs
1.2 ass
3.28 blks


Shaq

18.65 pts
13.99 rebs
3.88 ass
0.64 blks


WOW! Shaq is worst then this role player from Spurs 2003 team?
What makes it more unbelievable is that Shaq offensive statistics were made in more offensive Finals
2006 - 92.3 points per game
2003 - 84.9

With teams averages of
2006 Miami - 92.8
2003 Spurs - 87.8

How is Dave's offense looks like now?

But that is not shocking.
What is shocking to me is their turnovers:
Dave in all Finals had 3 (THREE) turnovers - that means he had 0.5 TO per contest while Shaquille O'neal made 19 TO and that is 3.16 turnovers per game.


Well I think I got your attencion on this subject. How much differently players can be viewed.
Ofcourse stats are not everything but wow.

Anybody cought something else?

[mabber]

We all know how David Robinson was not David Robinson in 2003 NBA Finals and how his stats were so bad that he can't be considered as the guy who was the second option in San Antonio squad. Although his defens was good he wasn't able to contribute like we wanted and this championship is not taken serious in his NBA career helping him to be in the elite top5 centers in history.
We all know how important Shaq was in 2006, a year when he won a championship. He was dominat force and the best center in the leauge, and still Most dominat Ever if he wants to (rolleyes emoticon).

So I wanted to checkout the stats. How those Centers looking in their stats.
I couldn't find any site where those number could be ( if anyone know such a site call me or PM me).
I could fucked up some numbers but I don't think so.

Okay:

Dave

26.8 minutes per game
10.8 pts/game
7.3 reb/game
0.67 ass/game
1.83 blks/game
61.1% Field Goals

Shaq

35 minutes per game
13.6 pts/game
10.2 reb/game
2.83 ass/game
0.5 blks/game
63% Field Goals


Yes - Shaq stats looks better esp. taking the assists stat, so Shaq is still better in taht last finals matchup. However when Dave was holding the Trophy he was 38 years young while Shaq in 2006 was 34 years old.

Still those assists. But take a look who was the assist maker in San Antonio - Tim Duncan another froncourt player who was absorbing not only the attencion but field at postup as well. The same thing can be talked about the rebounds. Nobody from the Miami froncourt was not a beast like Timmy that year crashing the boards. What's Dave's advantege is also his play in defensive end, but maybe Miami had different style of play. (damn I still must to watch those Finals - ohh maybe in September)

Maybe more adequat will be when we can take a look at their numbers per 48 minutes ?

Dave

19.34 pts
13.07 rebs
1.2 ass
3.28 blks


Shaq

18.65 pts
13.99 rebs
3.88 ass
0.64 blks


WOW! Shaq is worst then this role player from Spurs 2003 team?
What makes it more unbelievable is that Shaq offensive statistics were made in more offensive Finals
2006 - 92.3 points per game
2003 - 84.9

With teams averages of
2006 Miami - 92.8
2003 Spurs - 87.8

How is Dave's offense looks like now?

But that is not shocking.
What is shocking to me is their turnovers:
Dave in all Finals had 3 (THREE) turnovers - that means he had 0.5 TO per contest while Shaquille O'neal made 19 TO and that is 3.16 turnovers per game.


Well I think I got your attencion on this subject. How much differently players can be viewed.
Ofcourse stats are not everything but wow.

Anybody cought something else?

Nice work on getting all the stats together but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. That Robinson was better in his last championship season than Shaq was in 2006 (Heat championship)? Not to diminish your good work, but what's the point?

[Sportcamper]

http://www.nmsu.edu/~counsel/Advising/Advising%20Images/confused.jpg
Does there have to be a point?

[E20]

http://www.nmsu.edu/~counsel/Advising/Advising%20Images/confused.jpg
Does there have to be a point?
I think he is saying that:

David Robinson > Shaq

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It still amazes me that Shaq did not even average a fucking block.. that is proof that he is totally slowing down...that fucker used to average like 4 against us

[adidas11]

That's a funny analysis, seeing as it was Shaq that ended the Pistons playoff run this season, while Wade was slowed down by the flu in Game 6 of ECF 2006.

[NorCal510]

http://cache.defamer.com/hollywood/dave-chappelle-lips.jpg

[DirkAB]

Did Robinson get doubled all series long? No, but he did benefit from Duncan drawing constant double teams.



What's Dave's advantege is also his play in defensive end, but maybe Miami had different style of play. (damn I still must to watch those Finals - ohh maybe in September)


^^What is the bolded part saying? I can't tell for sure, but it almost sounds like you didn't watch the finals. If that is indeed what you are saying, then how and why would try to even act like you know what you are talking about?

What a stupid thread.

[polandprzem]

What a stupid thread.

Thank you.

It mifgh be a stupid thread, yes I haven't watched the Finals yet, cause I can't. I'm sick when I have to watch NBA now. And that's called a Shaq disease or NBA flu. I can't get too close to NBA right now.

I'm not telling that DRob was better I'm not saying that Shaq was better. I'm just showing the stats. Can you put your own thoughts on them or you are waiting for a mummy to help you with it?

Seriously - Domimant force Shaq was not better in stats then a (called) role player David Robinson.
Well Dave wasn't doubled but was effective on defensive end. Shaq had more assist and why? You should know that.

How much more attencion can get Shaq? This years championship will be added to his account equaly as to Wade. You can't say that about Robinson. Well at least I see it that way ( like ppl seeing).

[polandprzem]

No more thoughts?

Okay whatttever

[DirkAB]

I'm not telling that DRob was better I'm not saying that Shaq was better. I'm just showing the stats. Can you put your own thoughts on them or you are waiting for a mummy to help you with it?


You are asking for my opinion when you have stated your own? Well, at least you haven't explicitly said it, but you've implied what you believe. But you're just showing stats, right? If that was truly the case, then WTF is the point of this thread? You can deny it all you want but I know exactly what your point is, it's that Robinson was as good if not better than Shaq in the two seasons or finals that you're comparing.

Get real. You're using the fact that Shaq was doubled all series long as a strike against him, basically as an excuse for why he averaged more assists. I haven't heard a stupider arguement, ever. What about the effect that double team had on the rest of his statistical performance? What would have happened to his stats if Wade was doubled all series long instead of him? What would have happened if Robinson was doubled during the finals instead of Duncan?

So go ahead and imply all the things you want, they have no merit. But you might want to watch the series before you start a thread making ridiculous claims or implications. It only has merit in the context of fantasy basketball.

[polandprzem]

Thank you.
I'll do it.
But not now.

What is not a stupidity?
Maybe I should sad DRob was as important for the spurs as was Shaq to the Heat?

Then again you would throw doubleteaming Shaq :blah :blah :blah

I don't fucking care.
All I know and wanted to show is how much the hype can change an opinion on a player.

Over and out. (till I watch those stupid finals)

----
And one more thing- I'm watching NBA quite long time so I know what Shaq means to the game.

[Sportcamper]

Shaquille brings so many intangibles to ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!! He is a dominant presence who sets a screen & blocks out three guys....He blocks lay-ups with such ferocity players think twice before trying the same move again....When he dunks; (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060306shaq-dunk.jpg) defenders run for cover...There has never been a player like him before; he has the strength of a lion & the agility of a tiger.... (http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/shaquille.oneal-yellow-sneakers.jpg)He is the lovable big brother who instills confidence in his teammates...He challenges them to new heights....

The Magic’s folded when Shaq left...Los Angeles built a modern facility (http://www.seatdata.com/images/venue_staples_center/samples/sample.jpg) to celebrate Shaq's arrival & Shaq rewarded the city with 3 more NBA titles...Then Shaq moves on to Miami & brings them another title...Shaquille is truly a renaissance man...Not only a gifted athlete but a gifted artist as well...

Everything Shaq does he is successful at...I am willing to bet that if he would have entered yesterdays Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island in New York ....He would have taken 1st place as well.... (http://english.people.com.cn/200507/06/images/0705_B17.jpg) :smokin

[polandprzem]

Shaquille brings so many intangibles to ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!! He is a dominant presence who sets a screen & blocks out three guys....He blocks lay-ups with such ferocity players think twice before trying the same move again....When he dunks; (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060306shaq-dunk.jpg) defenders run for cover...There has never been a player like him before; he has the strength of a lion & the agility of a tiger.... (http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/shaquille.oneal-yellow-sneakers.jpg)He is the lovable big brother who instills confidence in his teammates...He challenges them to new heights....

The Magic’s folded when Shaq left...Los Angeles built a modern facility (http://www.seatdata.com/images/venue_staples_center/samples/sample.jpg) to celebrate Shaq's arrival & Shaq rewarded the city with 3 more NBA titles...Then Shaq moves on to Miami & brings them another title...Shaquille is truly a renaissance man...Not only a gifted athlete but a gifted artist as well...

Everything Shaq does he is successful at...I am willing to bet that if he would have entered yesterdays Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island in New York ....He would have taken 1st place as well.... (http://english.people.com.cn/200507/06/images/0705_B17.jpg) :smokin

:tu

Nice post, but IMO he would not have won the contest

[polandprzem]

Well Shaq was even worse then I though he were

[Obstructed_View]

Shaq was the actual MVP the year before last.

[REDLION#22]

Shaquille brings so many intangibles to ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!! He is a dominant presence who sets a screen & blocks out three guys....He blocks lay-ups with such ferocity players think twice before trying the same move again....When he dunks; (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060306shaq-dunk.jpg) defenders run for cover...There has never been a player like him before; he has the strength of a lion & the agility of a tiger.... (http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/shaquille.oneal-yellow-sneakers.jpg)He is the lovable big brother who instills confidence in his teammates...He challenges them to new heights....

The Magic’s folded when Shaq left...Los Angeles built a modern facility (http://www.seatdata.com/images/venue_staples_center/samples/sample.jpg) to celebrate Shaq's arrival & Shaq rewarded the city with 3 more NBA titles...Then Shaq moves on to Miami & brings them another title...Shaquille is truly a renaissance man...Not only a gifted athlete but a gifted artist as well...

Everything Shaq does he is successful at...I am willing to bet that if he would have entered yesterdays Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island in New York ....He would have taken 1st place as well.... (http://english.people.com.cn/200507/06/images/0705_B17.jpg) :smokin

EXELENT POST I AGREE 100%;)

[awmyplace]

Shaquille brings so many intangibles to ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!! He is a dominant presence who sets a screen & blocks out three guys....He blocks lay-ups with such ferocity players think twice before trying the same move again....When he dunks; (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060306shaq-dunk.jpg) defenders run for cover...There has never been a player like him before; he has the strength of a lion & the agility of a tiger.... (http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/shaquille.oneal-yellow-sneakers.jpg)He is the lovable big brother who instills confidence in his teammates...He challenges them to new heights....

The Magic’s folded when Shaq left...Los Angeles built a modern facility (http://www.seatdata.com/images/venue_staples_center/samples/sample.jpg) to celebrate Shaq's arrival & Shaq rewarded the city with 3 more NBA titles...Then Shaq moves on to Miami & brings them another title...Shaquille is truly a renaissance man...Not only a gifted athlete but a gifted artist as well...

Everything Shaq does he is successful at...I am willing to bet that if he would have entered yesterdays Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island in New York ....He would have taken 1st place as well.... (http://english.people.com.cn/200507/06/images/0705_B17.jpg) :smokin

Wow.This is coming for a Laker fan.I agree with you.

[awmyplace]

Well Shaq was even worse then I though he were

:lol

[REDLION#22]

thanks awmyplace for once again posting your own feelings...

[Trainwreck2100]

That's a funny analysis, seeing as it was Shaq that ended the Pistons playoff run this season, while Wade was slowed down by the flu in Game 6 of ECF 2006.

A mosquito bite could "slow down" Wade.

[TheSanityAnnex]

thanks awmyplace for once again posting your own feelings...
hey stupid fuck......................you can't bag on her when you quoted and said "I 100% agree <:gaysmiley>" a few posts up. Post #17.

[Trainwreck2100]

hey stupid fuck......................you can't bag on her when you quoted and said "I 100% agree <:gaysmiley>" a few posts up. Post #17.

look at who he is quoting

[Mavs_man_41]

The difference between shaq and david robinson in their last championships is simple. Shaq was still a big enough force to be double teamed, opening things up for Wade and all the other heat players. Robinson was just a role player at that point in his career.

[polandprzem]

The difference between shaq and david robinson in their last championships is simple. Shaq was still a big enough force to be double teamed, opening things up for Wade and all the other heat players. Robinson was just a role player at that point in his career.

Thae double-teaming was an Avery idea. Damn I never saw that bad double teaming. Sheesh they were not covering the passing lanes at all. So yes it opend some things up.

[sanman53]

Shaquille brings so many intangibles to ANY TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!! He is a dominant presence who sets a screen & blocks out three guys....He blocks lay-ups with such ferocity players think twice before trying the same move again....When he dunks; (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060306shaq-dunk.jpg) defenders run for cover...There has never been a player like him before; he has the strength of a lion & the agility of a tiger.... (http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/shaquille.oneal-yellow-sneakers.jpg)He is the lovable big brother who instills confidence in his teammates...He challenges them to new heights....

The Magic’s folded when Shaq left...Los Angeles built a modern facility (http://www.seatdata.com/images/venue_staples_center/samples/sample.jpg) to celebrate Shaq's arrival & Shaq rewarded the city with 3 more NBA titles...Then Shaq moves on to Miami & brings them another title...Shaquille is truly a renaissance man...Not only a gifted athlete but a gifted artist as well...

Everything Shaq does he is successful at...I am willing to bet that if he would have entered yesterdays Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island in New York ....He would have taken 1st place as well.... (http://english.people.com.cn/200507/06/images/0705_B17.jpg) :smokin

:vomit:

[jacobdrj]

IMHO its not all about stats, it is about presence... otherwise, Horry wouldn't have a job right now...

People FEAR Shaq on the court. His mere presence changest gameplans.

David was a good center, but he needed a LOT of help.

[polandprzem]

Ofcourse it's about the presents.

Shaq got a LOT of help when he was winning the championships

[jacobdrj]

Ofcourse it's about the presents.

Shaq got a LOT of help when he was winning the championships
I don't doubt it. But It wasn't even David's team when he won. It was Shaq's. And Shaq needed relitively less help, as was shown this year, as well has his last 2 'ships in LA.

[polandprzem]

I don't doubt it. But It wasn't even David's team when he won. It was Shaq's. And Shaq needed relitively less help, as was shown this year, as well has his last 2 'ships in LA.

Check out daves squad while he was the leader and checkout hakeems or shaq's squads.

Yes Dave was not winning as a team leader. But he was definately better defensive player then shaq ever been and had more offensive skills.

I know what the basketball is all about. How the player can change the game and how he effects teammates and the opponents.


Damn - something wrong with my heart..................

[jacobdrj]

I, nor I think many others doubt that David is more 'skilled' than Shaq. How can you? David was a quad-double threat. But Shaq's defence, while little to do with skill, is just as, if not more effective. And it can be quantified, not with bpg, but with lbs... in other words, he cloggs the lane so badly, that if he is camped in there (refs let him most of the time) the slashers just can't make it to the hole. He is a freggin brick wall. And Shaq is by no means the assist man David was, but Shaq is WAY underrated as a passer. He understands he is a 7 foter. He knows that the best way to play is inside out. He just gets mad when they never throw it inside to him to initiate the inside out.

This thread seemed to be themed more towards their last championships (so far). As far as I can tell, David was VERY effective in his last year. Not with stats, but he was just so crafty. Shaq took more of an active role, but D-Wade really emerged, and Shaq, while mortal, was still putting up more than solid numbers.