Ben Wallace Is Now A Bull

[Pistons < Spurs]

BREAKING NEWS


Source: Big Ben Heading To Bulls
The biggest free-agent prize of the NBA offseason appears to be off the market. Ben Wallace has informed the Pistons he will sign with the Bulls, Insider Chad Ford reports. The deal is believed to be $52M for four years.

[Quadzilla99]

All he's getting is $1 million more a Year than the Pistons offered him? Why would he leave?

[Brutalis]

Sucks for the Pistons.

Off the map they go.

[shyne]

Detroit went from pretty good to pretty average.

[Quadzilla99]

Source: Ben Wallace leaving Pistons to sign with BullsBy Chad Ford
ESPN Insider


Ben Wallace has been the face of the Detroit Pistons the last five years. No more.

Ben Wallace
Center
Detroit Pistons

Profile
2006 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
82 7.3 11.3 1.9 .510 .416


A league source told ESPN.com Monday night that Wallace has told the Pistons he has accepted an offer from the Chicago Bulls.

While exact details are unavailable, the offer is thought to be a four-year, $52 million dollar deal.

A deal can't become official until July 12, when the salary cap is set for the 2006-07 season and exact contract values can be computed.

The move will come as a shock to Pistons fans who thought that chances Wallace would bolt from Detroit were slim to none.

The Pistons came out of the gate Saturday offering Wallace a whopping four-year, $48 million dollar deal, but they told the four-time defensive player of the year that it was their final offer.

The signing clearly upgrades' the Bulls front court, albeit at an exorbiant price. The Bulls will have to use roughly $13.5 million of their projected $16.7 million in cap space to secure Wallace.

However, Wallace adds the veteran toughness and defensive presence the Bulls felt they lacked up front.

Look for the Bulls to now explore trade scenarios involving Tyson Chandler.

One potential opportunity, according to sources, is New Orleans, which is mulling a Chandler-for-P. J. Brown swap. Brown is in the last year of his contract, which would give the Bulls even more cap relief next season.

The Bulls also have explored Chandler trade scenarios with the Hawks (via an Al Harrington sign-and-trade) and the Warriors.

The move puts the Pistons in a difficult position.

They loss Wallace for nothing and don't have anything more than the $5.1 million mid-level exception to offer to potential replacements.

There are a few starting center-caliber free agents out there, such as Joel Przybilla and Nazr Mohammed, but none who can give the Pistons what Wallace did.

Instead, the Pistons may opt to beef up their backcourt and to move to a more up-tempo style with Rasheed Wallace at five and Antonio McDyess at

[Bob Lanier]

All he's getting is $1 million more a Year than the Pistons offered him? Why would he leave?
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/02/13_wilcoxenw_twolvescoach/images/gettyflip_large.jpg

Well, on the bright side, I think Flip will be much more successful without the pressure of winning on him.

[T Park]

Man thats gotta hurt.


The Cavs are now the favorite to win the division.

[mavsfan1000]

Ben Wallace=Tool. What a dumbass.

[angel_luv]

Hey P<S

You have a link to that story?

And are you in mourning?

Better yet, ready to be a full fledged Spurs fan? :)

[Bruno]

I hope for Detroit that they get PJ Brown + JR smith and that's it's not just a FA signing.
If Detroit get nothing back, they are in deep shit.

[Bob Lanier]

The Cavs? :lmao The Cavs are fucking mediocre, man.

The Bulls are easily the best team in the East.

Wait - my Bulls are easily the best team in the East.

[dknights411]

So Nazr going to Detroit then, huh?

[himat]

:bang

[mavsfan1000]

You can write in the Heat as the 2007 Eastern Conference Champions.

[ChumpDumper]

The Cavs are fucking mediocre, man.That's all it takes to win the east....

[Quadzilla99]

^^Hahahaha look at Lanier's team :lmao :lmao :lmao.

[awmyplace]

Lol@Bob Lanier

[dknights411]

Here's the link

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508742

[himat]

Actually the Pistons offered 49.6 million. Ben just really ruined my day.

[angel_luv]

thanks for link :)

[dknights411]

The Cavs? :lmao The Cavs are fucking mediocre, man.

The Bulls are easily the best team in the East.

Wait - my Bulls are easily the best team in the East.

*ahem*

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2006/WadeGJ_400_060620.jpg

What about this?

[01Snake]

All he's getting is $1 million more a Year than the Pistons offered him? Why would he leave?

Hmm...1 million more per year? Uhh..I'd leave too. Thats a lot of coin.

[beirmeistr]

On a personal level, I feel bad for the few Piston fans that post on Spurstalk, even though most of you had a bad feeling that Ben was going to leave. However, I'm sure the Spurs are now looking at Detroit as less of a threat for the title than before.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Pistons be screwed, watch out for the Bulls next year!

[Bruno]

2006-2007 Pistons

Starter :
PG : Billups
SG :Hamilton
SF : Prince
PF : McDyess
C : Rasheed Wallace

Bench :
PG : Alex Acker
SG : Carlos Delfino
SF : Amir Johnson
PF : Jason Maxiel
C : Dale Davis

That's quite weak and Detroit has only the MLE to sign FAs.
Dumars will need to be a genious to build a contender for next year.

[Bob Lanier]

Actually, Detroit has slightly more than the MLE, which might just be enough to sign Przybilla.

[Bruno]

Actually, Detroit has slightly more than the MLE, which might just be enough to sign Przybilla.

No.
Salary cap will be around $52-52.5M and Detroit has $46.5M spend in salaries but only for ten players : you must add cap holds for 2 players => Detroit won't have more than the MLE.

[Bob Lanier]

Dammit. I thought Delk was still under contract.

Maybe they'll move the Chucker too?

[himat]

Ben left cause of bitch ass Flip.

[REDLION#22]

nah...:wakeup:...now the pistons went from a lucky mediocre team...to an even more mediocre team...and they expect to beat the MIAMI HEAT next year???get a clue!!!:lol:

and jon paxon if you are reading this! give big ben some therapy before he starts another brawl:)

[REDLION#22]

Ben left cause of bitch ass Flip.


how about blaming it on your mediocre inconsistent team instead of making excuses with the coach;)

[himat]

Ben hates Flip and that's why he left dumbass. Get the fuck out of here you bitch.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I just wish I could be there to see Rasheed's meltdown (albeit from a safe distance) when he found out about this.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

buhbye pistons, ya'll were good rivals while it lasted

[dknights411]

They can't replace Ben, but the Pistons can still be a top 10 team if they play their cards right and pick up a semi-quality center. It won't help the fact that the Pistons are now weak inside, though. :rolleyes

[REDLION#22]

Ben hates Flip and that's why he left dumbass


AND THE PISTONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE DEFINITION OF TEAM UNITY CONCEPT!!!!!! :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin





:lmao

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pistons will still have what it takes to make the ECF--but that isn't saying much.

East blows major ass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

In their current state they won't make the ECF. It will be Bulls vs. Heat.

[JamStone]

Wasn't about the money. Ben obviously didn't feel comfortable with Flip and with some of the things that happened this season.

Thanks, Ben, for everything you did for the Pistons franchise and the City of Detroit. We appreciate all that you did. And, at least I wish you the best.

Good luck, Ben.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Piston won't sit there and do nothing they will fill the hole or blow up the team.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think even with Ben Wallace the Bulls aren't that good.

Ben Gordon, for all his greatness, is still a ballhog, and their best point guard Heinrich is still a defensive liability. I also see no sense of unity with the bulls.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

As long as Chauncey still can jack up instant threes, the Pistons have a chance at the ECF. The Chauncey Three strategy is infallible i saiiidddd

[T Park]

As well as the Bulls played the Heat.

Id say the Bulls are once again, the NBA Eastern Conference favorites..


Whats old, is now new again.

[Bob Lanier]

Ben Gordon, for all his greatness, is still a ballhog, and their best point guard Heinrich is still a defensive liability. I also see no sense of unity with the bulls.
Just admit that you didn't watch a Bulls game last year. Kirk Hinrich is probably the best defensive point guard in the league, and Skiles is a dominant personality who fosters a team concept.

[TheTruth]

I think even with Ben Wallace the Bulls aren't that good.

Ben Gordon, for all his greatness, is still a ballhog, and their best point guard Heinrich is still a defensive liability. I also see no sense of unity with the bulls.
are you serious??? Heinrich is a terrific defender.

[REDLION#22]

buhbye pistons, ya'll were good rivals while it lasted


Well said;)finnaly someone understande the pistons lucky run is over.props to you:)

[T Park]

The Miami Heat run is over too chief, so simmer down.

[REDLION#22]

[QUOTE=JamStone Ben obviously didn't feel comfortable with Flip and with some of the things that happened this season.
Good luck, Ben.[/QUOTE]

then again...are the pissed ons supposed to be the definition of team unity??? :rolleyes

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Just admit that you didn't watch a Bulls game last year. Kirk Hinrich is probably the best defensive point guard in the league, and Skiles is a dominant personality who fosters a team concept.


well i watched the games they played us..

[StylisticS]

You can write in the Heat as the 2007 Eastern Conference Champions.

Not so fast. The Bulls with Ben Wallace are every bit as capable of beating the Heat in a 7 game series.

[REDLION#22]

The Miami Heat run is over too chief, so simmer down.

care to explain why;)

[REDLION#22]

Not so fast. The Bulls with Ben Wallace are every bit as capable of beating the Heat in a 7 game series.

:lmao:!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[REDLION#22]

all of the sudden big baby has turned into shaq and steve nash!:lol:

[JamStone]

Shaq scores 9 points in the deciding game of the NBA Finals. He's well on his decline.

Zo and Payton finally get their championship rings. Both could retire. But, even if they come back, the same motivation is not there anymore.

Miami will still be one of the better teams, but I don't see them winning it all again. However, they definitely should be better than my Detroit Pistons next year.

And, Cant Be Faded saying goodbye to the Pistons as a rival in no way means they he thinks they were lucky. But, I can't speak for him and what he thinks.

[REDLION#22]

SHAQ IS SCORING FEW POINTS MOSTLY BECAUSE HE IS IN A STAR STUDDED TEAM,YES HE MAY BE ON A DECLINE BUT HE IS SSTILL THE MOST DOMINANT CENTER IN THE NBA!!!!!AND THE PISTONS ARE OVER INDEED WHO IS GONNA SAVE EM TAYSHUN:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[SA Gunslinger]

Would Ben make more money off endorsements in Chicago? Maybe that was a factor in his thinking.

Sad to see the great Pistons dismantled.

[himat]

I can't believe this happnened. Pistons lose in the EC semis next year.

[dknights411]

Apparantly Mav Fans are to Spurs fans as Heat fans are to Piston fans.

[J.T.]

Apparantly Mav Fans are to Spurs fans as Heat fans are to Piston fans.

Don't give Mav Fan that much credit. Mav Fan wishes he could be a Heat fan.

[Obstructed_View]

<----------- Can't wait to see the first offensive play "drawn up" by the Bulls for Wallace.

[REDLION#22]

it was gonna happen...sorry but their fluke was over in the ECF!!!

[dknights411]

Don't give Mav Fan that much credit. Mav Fan wishes he could be a Heat fan.

I was going for the annoyance factor.

[REDLION#22]

I can't believe this happnened. Pistons lose in the EC semis next year.

:lol THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL GET PAST THE 1ST ROUND IS IF SOMEONE IS INJURED :lol

[dknights411]

:lol THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL GET PAST THE 1ST ROUND IS IF SOMEONE IS INJURED :lol

The Pistons can still make it out of the first round with ease IMHO. Billups, Prince, and Sheed should get them there. Beyond that, who knows.

[REDLION#22]

IMO they are way to inconsistent to do this,they honestly need someone else that mr.lucky shot(billups)to advance...

[DirkAB]

No way the Pistons make the ECF now, they are a 5-8 seed next year, they won't even have home court in the first round.

[T Park]

RedLion you really need to cut down on the bullshit talking.

[REDLION#22]

Apparantly Mav Fans are to Spurs fans as Heat fans are to Piston fans.

NO,because in that case we are the superior team,and pissed on fans are the ones that always annoy us with their stupid worthless excuses.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Thanks for 6 great years Ben. You came to our team and everyone scratched their head trying to figure out why in the hell we'd want you in the sign and trade w/ Orlando. You achieved far more than anyone would have ever given you credit for. Congrats on the big pay day! You deserved it!

I wish him the best.


But all in all, I find myself a little releived. I think this is actually the best thing that could have happened.

If Ben decided to stay at 4 / 49.6 we would have been strapped. Next year Sheed and Ben each would be recieving over 11 million. Rip would get 9. Tay should receive somewhere between 8-9?. Dice is looking at 6 Chauncey is going to be another 6+ guy. That's 52 million minimum. And that doesn't include our other 9 roster spots.

Ben is on the decline. He really was not worth the 48 offered by Dumars. It was mostly back pay for years of being played under value. That is not smart.

He is too one dimensional of a player for that much money. His stats have gone down for three consecutive years ( in Minutes, blocks, rebounds & free throw % ). Why should that trend stop now?

What happens in three years when he easily could average 6 points, 8 rebounds and 1 block? Is that a stat line that deserves 12 million?

It's sad to see him go. But a large part of me is quite happy.

Joe can hopefully get a big that can offer 15 - 20 minutes of decent play.

We will play Dice more. We'll utilize Davis (7 points and 9 boards in 30 minutes w/ Indy at the end of 2005). You'll see Jason Maxiell (Baby Ben) in the rotation. All 3 of those guys can give 20 minutes of GOOD play.

Will it be Ben Wallace defense? Of course not. But we are shifting to a new style of play anyways in the NBA. More offense, less defense. We've all seen it coming. Defensive rule changes & refs giving the superstar whistles.

One possible positive to this is that Sheed may play more at the center position now. He will be forced to be under the basket. His post game is awesome ... but he's relied too much on his perimeter skills. Now he will get the ball under the bucket.

And don't forget that we still have 4 of the "best starting 5" No way in hell do I think we're now all of a sudden a crap team. The East is not all that terrific. No reason why we can't get back to the ECF. Will it be tough? sure but I think you will see much more focus and determination form the other guys. Time to drop the cockiness and play ball.

It's too easy for those guys to rely upon Ben all the time. They KNOW Ben is back there defensively so they're not as worried when they let their guys get past them. They know they'll have to buckle down individually now.

I honestly feel that we are much better off for the future now. We may stumble at times this year, but I think we'll be fine.

Bens attitude and commentary about wanting the ball was getting on my nerves.

All this Ben left because of Flip is getting on my nerves.

Did he love Flip? Probably not. I'm sure he didn't see eye to eye with him all the time. But there is NO FREAKING WAY he left because he didn't like Flip. That is soo 4th grade. And by the slim chance that was his resoning, I'd tell him to get his baby ass out of the lockerroom. Ben is notorious for being a grump with his coach's . He argued with Carlisle and LB aswell. It's nothing new.

It's time for something a little new for the Pistons. I'm excited about this year. I trust Joe D to figure out a way to make us as compwtitive as can be.

And I guess I can now say "I told you so" to Joe D about the stupid move of getting rid of Darko last year.

Oh, and good luck to you Ben on becoming an offensive threat in Chicago!!!!! :lol :lol

[REDLION#22]

RedLion you really need to cut down on the bullshit talking.


just saying the truth:)

[freedom&justice]

Ben's going where the money's at. I didn't think he'd leave the organization that gave him the chance to be a star with nothing like this..it's just so wrong...hopefully Joe can pull something off and get Tyson Chandler.

[aaronstampler]

are you serious??? Heinrich is a terrific defender.

Don't pay any attention to what the guy says. He's just a racist. He pretty much dumps on every white guy in the league, including Manu.

[pjjrfan]

Wasn't about the money. Ben obviously didn't feel comfortable with Flip and with some of the things that happened this season.

Thanks, Ben, for everything you did for the Pistons franchise and the City of Detroit. We appreciate all that you did. And, at least I wish you the best.

Good luck, Ben.

Your a good fan and Wallace's stay however it ended was a great one in Detroit. He helped them to a title and 2 finals visits. They were 3 mins away from repeating. It's a business. Wallace has to do what's best for him and his family. I think, that the Piston's set themselves up. I still think they screwed Carlise by not backing him up when the players started whining, they got Larry who got them straight enough to win it all and get close a second time but then let them know it's still a business by undercutting their 2005 season and being the story. Now with Flip things just aren't the same. I think Ben could see for himself that his team's front office would try to low ball him or at least low ball him in his own mind and he saw from past history that business is business. He was just following suit, and looking out for his best interests.

[SA Gunslinger]

Nice post, Pistons<Spurs.

Your right, the rules have changed. Who was it that said evolve or die?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what order will these events happen:

McDyess breaks down
Rasheed's chode explodes
Billups jacks a three with 23 seconds left on the shotclock

[aaronstampler]

Thanks for 6 great years Ben. You came to our team and everyone scratched their head trying to figure out why in the hell we'd want you in the sign and trade w/ Orlando. You achieved far more than anyone would have ever given you credit for. Congrats on the big pay day! You deserved it!

I wish him the best.


But all in all, I find myself a little releived. I think this is actually the best thing that could have happened.

If Ben decided to stay at 4 / 49.6 we would have been strapped. Next year Sheed and Ben each would be recieving over 11 million. Rip would get 9. Tay should receive somewhere between 8-9?. Dice is looking at 6 Chauncey is going to be another 6+ guy. That's 52 million minimum. And that doesn't include our other 9 roster spots.

Ben is on the decline. He really was not worth the 48 offered by Dumars. It was mostly back pay for years of being played under value. That is not smart.

He is too one dimensional of a player for that much money. His stats have gone down for three consecutive years ( in Minutes, blocks, rebounds & free throw % ). Why should that trend stop now?

What happens in three years when he easily could average 6 points, 8 rebounds and 1 block? Is that a stat line that deserves 12 million?

It's sad to see him go. But a large part of me is quite happy.

Joe can hopefully get a big that can offer 15 - 20 minutes of decent play.

We will play Dice more. We'll utilize Davis (7 points and 9 boards in 30 minutes w/ Indy at the end of 2005). You'll see Jason Maxiell (Baby Ben) in the rotation. All 3 of those guys can give 20 minutes of GOOD play.

Will it be Ben Wallace defense? Of course not. But we are shifting to a new style of play anyways in the NBA. More offense, less defense. We've all seen it coming. Defensive rule changes & refs giving the superstar whistles.

One possible positive to this is that Sheed may play more at the center position now. He will be forced to be under the basket. His post game is awesome ... but he's relied too much on his perimeter skills. Now he will get the ball under the bucket.

And don't forget that we still have 4 of the "best starting 5" No way in hell do I think we're now all of a sudden a crap team. The East is not all that terrific. No reason why we can't get back to the ECF. Will it be tough? sure but I think you will see much more focus and determination form the other guys. Time to drop the cockiness and play ball.

It's too easy for those guys to rely upon Ben all the time. They KNOW Ben is back there defensively so they're not as worried when they let their guys get past them. They know they'll have to buckle down individually now.

I honestly feel that we are much better off for the future now. We may stumble at times this year, but I think we'll be fine.

Bens attitude and commentary about wanting the ball was getting on my nerves.

All this Ben left because of Flip is getting on my nerves.

Did he love Flip? Probably not. I'm sure he didn't see eye to eye with him all the time. But there is NO FREAKING WAY he left because he didn't like Flip. That is soo 4th grade. And by the slim chance that was his resoning, I'd tell him to get his baby ass out of the lockerroom. Ben is notorious for being a grump with his coach's . He argued with Carlisle and LB aswell. It's nothing new.

It's time for something a little new for the Pistons. I'm excited about this year. I trust Joe D to figure out a way to make us as compwtitive as can be.

And I guess I can now say "I told you so" to Joe D about the stupid move of getting rid of Darko last year.

Oh, and good luck to you Ben on becoming an offensive threat in Chicago!!!!! :lol :lol


This post sounds bitter, but at the same time I agree with almost all of it. Ben was enormously overrated and the Pistons won't miss him too much in the long run, and certainly not after the '07 season.

[Spurologist]

Someone please give Paxton the executive of year award already.

[SequSpur]

Ben overrated? uh,...... okay......

Pistons are lottery bound.

[Pistons < Spurs]

This post sounds bitter, but at the same time I agree with almost all of it. Ben was enormously overrated and the Pistons won't miss him too much in the long run, and certainly not after the '07 season.


No bitterness. I truly love and appreciate what Ben has meant to us. Yes I am a little miffed that HE CHOSE TO LEAVE. But that's his right. I suppose my post comes off a little strong because I feel the need to dispell all the doomsday thoughts that are prevailing at this time.

I would have loved to sign Ben to a 2 year deal as high as 15 per year. I just think he has little value after 2 years, and will seriously hurt us at that point.

[REDLION#22]

:bang

Aaaawwww poor himat :depressed







NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil


:lol :lol :lol :lol :l


:lmao:lmao:lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[beirmeistr]

Thanks for 6 great years Ben. You came to our team and everyone scratched their head trying to figure out why in the hell we'd want you in the sign and trade w/ Orlando. You achieved far more than anyone would have ever given you credit for. Congrats on the big pay day! You deserved it!

I wish him the best.


But all in all, I find myself a little releived. I think this is actually the best thing that could have happened.

If Ben decided to stay at 4 / 49.6 we would have been strapped. Next year Sheed and Ben each would be recieving over 11 million. Rip would get 9. Tay should receive somewhere between 8-9?. Dice is looking at 6 Chauncey is going to be another 6+ guy. That's 52 million minimum. And that doesn't include our other 9 roster spots.

Ben is on the decline. He really was not worth the 48 offered by Dumars. It was mostly back pay for years of being played under value. That is not smart.

He is too one dimensional of a player for that much money. His stats have gone down for three consecutive years ( in Minutes, blocks, rebounds & free throw % ). Why should that trend stop now?

What happens in three years when he easily could average 6 points, 8 rebounds and 1 block? Is that a stat line that deserves 12 million?

It's sad to see him go. But a large part of me is quite happy.

Joe can hopefully get a big that can offer 15 - 20 minutes of decent play.

We will play Dice more. We'll utilize Davis (7 points and 9 boards in 30 minutes w/ Indy at the end of 2005). You'll see Jason Maxiell (Baby Ben) in the rotation. All 3 of those guys can give 20 minutes of GOOD play.

Will it be Ben Wallace defense? Of course not. But we are shifting to a new style of play anyways in the NBA. More offense, less defense. We've all seen it coming. Defensive rule changes & refs giving the superstar whistles.

One possible positive to this is that Sheed may play more at the center position now. He will be forced to be under the basket. His post game is awesome ... but he's relied too much on his perimeter skills. Now he will get the ball under the bucket.

And don't forget that we still have 4 of the "best starting 5" No way in hell do I think we're now all of a sudden a crap team. The East is not all that terrific. No reason why we can't get back to the ECF. Will it be tough? sure but I think you will see much more focus and determination form the other guys. Time to drop the cockiness and play ball.

It's too easy for those guys to rely upon Ben all the time. They KNOW Ben is back there defensively so they're not as worried when they let their guys get past them. They know they'll have to buckle down individually now.

I honestly feel that we are much better off for the future now. We may stumble at times this year, but I think we'll be fine.

Bens attitude and commentary about wanting the ball was getting on my nerves.

All this Ben left because of Flip is getting on my nerves.

Did he love Flip? Probably not. I'm sure he didn't see eye to eye with him all the time. But there is NO FREAKING WAY he left because he didn't like Flip. That is soo 4th grade. And by the slim chance that was his resoning, I'd tell him to get his baby ass out of the lockerroom. Ben is notorious for being a grump with his coach's . He argued with Carlisle and LB aswell. It's nothing new.

It's time for something a little new for the Pistons. I'm excited about this year. I trust Joe D to figure out a way to make us as compwtitive as can be.

And I guess I can now say "I told you so" to Joe D about the stupid move of getting rid of Darko last year.

Oh, and good luck to you Ben on becoming an offensive threat in Chicago!!!!! :lol :lol
Although I am not a Pistons fan, I think this was an excellent post.

[bdictjames]

Guess the two Wallaces are once again apart.. and the Pistons dynasty in the East is well over.. tough break for them

[wolf754life]

4 years, 60 MILLION, "bulls", 4 years 48 million "pistons"
, this signing hurts the bulls longterm! Way too much money, wallace makes tim duncan money! its outrageous

[Obstructed_View]

The Pistons have a chance to get out of the first round next year ONLY if Rasheed is playing within fifteen feet of the basket, and Flip has shown zero ability to make that happen.

[REDLION#22]

Detroit went from pretty good to pretty average.


are you kidding me??

they went from mediocre to toilet status! :lol

[REDLION#22]

Guess the two Wallaces are once again apart.. and the Pistons dynasty in the East is well over.. tough break for them

1 fluke title in the 2000s and they are a dynasty??? lets get real;)

[freedom&justice]

are you kidding me??

they went from mediocre to toilet status! :lol

And you just went from being an annoying bug to a full-fledged piece of shit.

[JamStone]

4 years, 60 MILLION, "bulls", 4 years 48 million "pistons"
, this signing hurts the bulls longterm! Way too much money, wallace makes tim duncan money! its outrageous

Actually, every report I've heard was that Chicago's offer is $52 million over four years.

[Amarelooms]

4 years 60mil...15 mil for a horrible offensive player...no moves....horrible at the line (worse than Shaq lol) who can play D and rebound? If the Bulls don't win it all this upcoming year this was a BAD move...he'll be 33+ and declining....

[Pistons < Spurs]

Big Ben headed to Bulls

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News


Ben Wallace, the face, the 'fro and the foundation of the Detroit Pistons the past six years, will be wearing a Chicago Bulls uniform next season.

"I appreciate everything Detroit did for me and my family,” Wallace said Monday night, confirming that he will sign a four-year deal with the Bulls on July 12, the first day free agents are able to sign new contracts. “They gave me an opportunity to make a name for myself and we had an opportunity to win a championship together.

This is always going to be a special place.

“This is just one of those things. When you get a chance to sign a deal of a lifetime, it's tough to let it go.”

The Bulls, who initially made no offer when general manager John Paxson and coach Scott Skiles came to visit Wallace on Saturday, apparently upped the ante considerably on Monday. They offered Wallace a four-year deal starting at $14 million, which would make the total value of the contract just under $60 million.

The Pistons' initial offer to Wallace was a four-year deal worth $49.6 million, starting at $11.5 million. Even though that offer would have made Wallace the richest player on the team, Wallace was disappointed.

He was further disappointed when he was told the Pistons wouldn"t raise their offer more than $12 million to start, which would have raised the overall value to $51.8 million.

Pistons president Joe Dumars confirmed the news late Monday night, but didn’t want to make any comment. Wallace’s agent Arn Tellem and Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson also confirmed the news.

“Man, to me, this is still, like, unbelievable (that he’s leaving Detroit),” Wallace said. “I talked to Joe. There are no hard feelings and this was nothing personal. He understands how these things go This is all just part of the business.”

It was still a tough blow for the Pistons. Not only are they losing Wallace, the four-time Defensive Player of the Year, but Dumars also wasn’t able to work a sign-and-trade deal to get some sort of compensation for the loss.

“We tried to work out a couple of deals,” Wallace said. “But there was nothing that Joe felt would work. He didn’t just want to take back players that he didn’t want or players that he felt he was just going to have to turnaround and move. They just couldn’t get the guys they wanted.”

One option the Pistons were hoping for didn’t materialize. They had hoped to maybe get Tyson Chandler back from Chicago as part of a sign-and-trade. However, it appears the Bulls are going to trade Chandler to the New Orleans-Oklahoma City Hornets in exchange for P.J. Brown. While Chandler has five years and $54 million left on his contract, Brown’s $8 million will come off the books after next season.

It was that deal that helped pave the way for Wallace’s signing.

The Pistons, meanwhile, will have to scramble to pick up the pieces. Two mid-level free agent centers are still available, Portland’s Joel Przybilla and San Antonio’s Nazr Mohammed. But with Antonio McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Jason Maxiell and Dale Davis still under contract, the Pistons might not go there.

“Ben’s had six great years here,” coach Flip Saunders said. “But we’re part of an era in the NBA with the salary cap and the luxury tax and the collective bargaining agreement where players move around. You never like to lose a player that’s been instrumental to your franchise.

“We’ve got to see how everything plays out and go from there. Your team has to constantly adapt. Ben

brought a lot of things for us. With him gone, we’re going to have to adapt in the areas where his strengths were. In other areas, we might be better.”

You can expect the Pistons to go with a smaller, quicker, more offensive lineup next season, perhaps with Tayshaun Prince playing more of a hybrid forward role similar to Phoenix’s Shawn Marion.

Saunders made it clear that his relationship with Wallace had no impact on his decision to leave.

“No. What it had to do with was money, which is the case 99.9 percent of the time,” Saunders said.

“It has to do with finances.

Dumars knew that losing Wallace was a distinct possibility. He made it clear in his post-season address that if some team was willing to throw big money at Wallace, the Pistons were going to have to let him go.

Despite all that Wallace has done for the franchise -- he is the Pistons' all-time shot blocking leader and fourth-leading rebounder - the Pistons couldn’t justify paying Wallace, who will be 32 in September, in excess of $20 million when he was 35 years old.

Still, you couldn’t say the Pistons low-balled Wallace. Dumars told Wallace repeatedly the last couple of years that when it was his time, he would make Wallace the highest paid player on the team. That’s what the Pistons' offer to Wallace would have done.

Dumars kept his promise.

The Pistons in 2000 gave Wallace, an unknown journeyman at the time, a six-year deal worth $30

million when nobody else would have paid much more than the minimum. Now, the Pistons are offering him another $50 million. That would be $80 million for 10 years of service to a great defensive player who has never averaged more than 9.7 points a game.

It’s hard to view that in total and say the Pistons are being cheap.

Monday was a tough day for Dumars. Wallace was like a son to him. He was the foundation upon which Dumars built this championship team. He had tried to come up with a salary number that would reward Wallace for that, but not severely damage the team’s salary structure moving forward.

Remember, Dumars was the last man standing from the previous championship era of Pistons basketball. He was there when the Pistons hung on too long to past-their-prime stars Bill Laimbeer and Isiah Thomas. Those were some of the most painful years of Dumars’ career, and he knows it took the Pistons more than a decade to recover.

He wasn’t going to repeat that mistake.

Wallace has some good years left, there’s no question about that. But he may not have any great years left. His days of grabbing 1,000-plus rebounds in a season are probably over. While he can still dominate a game on the defensive end, he hasn’t shown the ability to do so consistently, night after night like he once did.

He was essentially not a factor in the last two playoff rounds this season. He never looked older than he did against the Heat. Dumars had to throw that into the equation.

Wallace’s stubbornness and petulance got the better of him on occasion this season. His refusal to enter a game in Orlando in April is only one example. He had several blow-ups in practice, as well, and hasn’t gotten along real well with any of his last three coaches.

Dumars had to throw that into the equation, as well.

Also, it is clear the game is changing. Tough, physical defense is being legislated out of the game. Commissioner David Stern wants to facilitate more offense and to do that, the league officials have drastically reduced the amount of physical contact a defender can use both on and off the ball.

This negatively impacts Wallace two ways. It reduces his effectiveness on defense, and it puts

his offensive deficiencies in a harsher light.

But Dumars still kept his promise to Wallace. It just wasn’t enough. Now the Pistons will have to do battle against Wallace four times a season in the Central Division.



http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060703/UPDATE/607030394

[REDLION#22]

And you just went from being an annoying bug to a full-fledged piece of shit.


hey dude! its not my fault if big baby decided to move on and forget about det-riot,who can blame him???that city is a torture chamber,especially the palace of the burned hills :lol

[Obstructed_View]

hey dude! its not my fault if big baby decided to move on and forget about det-riot,who can blame him???that city is a torture chamber,especially the palace of the burned hills :lol
Man, at least the Maverick trolls came up with some original material once in a while.

[Pistons < Spurs]

NO MO' 'FRO? Ben Wallace expected to head to Chicago

July 3, 2006

BY KRISTA JAHNKE

Pistons center Ben Wallace is expected to agree to a four-year contract with the Chicago Bulls sometime Monday night or Tuesday morning, according to a person close to the negotiations who asked not to be identified because of the talks’ confidential nature.

Wallace’s deal with Chicago is expected to be worth close to $60 million. The Pistons had offered him a four-year deal worth about $48 million. Wallace, an unrestricted free agent, cannot sign a contract until July 12.

The four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year has played for Detroit since 2000, when he was acquired from Orlando in the Grant Hill trade.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060703/NEWS99/60703020

[Lp26]

I'm so mad, and upset right now :pctoss

I don't think it's fully sunk in yet

[REDLION#22]

Man, at least the Maverick trolls came up with some original material once in a while.


its cool,im just having a little fun with the depressed pissed on fans :king funny,how their city is also asosciated with depression! :lol

[Bob Lanier]

Saunders made it clear that his relationship with Wallace had no impact on his decision to leave.
How the fuck would Flip know?

It's a less harsh smear campaign than I'd expected, although I'm sure the rationalizations will get more and more biting as the offseason goes on.

[REDLION#22]

I'm so mad, and upset right now :pctoss

I don't think it's fully sunk in yet


aaawww poooor criminals...


lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spurologist]

Ben Overrated? That is truly hilarious. The fact is the pistons are a jump-shooting team and have always been under Joe Dumars. The only player that seem to care, without any iota of being selfish, did his job and was unconcerned his own personal glory. That includes consistently grabbing offensive rebounds, being quicker against players 2-5 inches taller than him = steals, positioning, and hustling all over the court to ensure that Detroit is in a good position to win. That means he plays with heart all the time.

Wallace/Mcdyess rarely play any power post up offense. When they got the ball they are setting up for their turnaround jumper 90% of the time. Billups gets over confident with his jumper and jacks them up time after time. He wants to live up to the name "Mr. Big Shot" Mr. Big shot time is never a lay-up. That has always been the case. Hamilton is a rhythm jump shooter. With a good defender on him, his ass is owned. That is truth. Prince - I like a lot. The problem is: he doesn't ever live up to his potential in the playoffs. He always seems to choke in during the game and especially in crucial situations. He was a bog surprise in his first playoff games, hitting three after three but it has been downhill from there.

The one constant has been Ben Wallace. When all those shots by the perimeter players have been jacked up, it is Ben cleaning up the mess to give his team another chance. Another chance = better percentage/chance to score = better chance to win.

Ben's game has tampered off a bit but you can/must attribute that to:

Flip Saunders. It's delusional to think that there wasn't some turmoil in that pistons locker room. Wallace made it clear that Flip wasn't focusing on defense and that is why it showed on the court. It is my belief that Ben saw in his teammates that they were transformed into more of an offensive team and they weren't showing that type of D to make them successful. So Ben is basically saying, "Fuck it. I'm out.

You better believe Ben will come out like a Bull heading into Chicago. Pun intended. His game will be rejuvenated. This move only makes Detroit a top 5 seed in the east. And no they are not in the top 3.

[freedom&justice]

hey dude! its not my fault if big baby decided to move on and forget about det-riot,who can blame him???that city is a torture chamber,especially the palace of the burned hills :lol

First of all, I'm not a dude. Second of all, your line's getting old. Don't you have anything better in that kindergarten-level brain of yours? City bashing is just stupid.

[Amarelooms]

Don't worry Pistons fans...dude is not worth that insane amount....no point to over-pay just to keep him. Might hurt you next season but ya'll will figure something out. Ben could have ben like Terry and actaully showed some loyalty....not always about the $$$.

[ponky]

Aaaawwww poor himat :depressed







NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil


:lol :lol :lol :lol :l


:lmao:lmao:lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Exhibit A:
Why emoticons suck (they give a voice to idiots who can't communicate without them).

[Kori Ellis]

The Detroit News article is totally different than the ESPN.com article. ESPN says it's 52M and the Pistons wouldn't go higher than 48M. DN says it's ~60M and that the Pistons went up to 51.8M. I wonder what the truth is.

If it's the first scenario, then it sucks the Pistons lost him over 4M. If it's the second, then no blame to the Pistons.

[SA210]

Garnett to the pistons?
Don't say that.

Ah, nevermind, Flip is still the coach.

[Kori Ellis]

So who do Pistons fans want now? Przy or Nazr?

[Lp26]

aaawww poooor criminals...


lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shut the fuck up seriously.

You have to be the most obnoxious poster i've ever come across, not to mention the fact you have the intelligence of a 2-year old.

[ponky]

The Detroit News article is totally different than the ESPN.com article. ESPN says it's 52M and the Pistons wouldn't go higher than 48M. DN says it's ~60M and that the Pistons went up to 51.8M. I wonder what the truth is.

If it's the first scenario, then it sucks the Pistons lost him over 4M. If it's the second, then no blame to the Pistons.


SI.com is also reporting 52 million...oh wait, they are getting their report from ESPN, my bad. The Chicago Tribune hasn't disclosed the amount of the Bulls offer, they are supposed to have more details later.

[Spurologist]

So who do Pistons fans want now? Przy or Nazr?

Nazr for Prince works.

[SequSpur]

The NBA is still about defense and rebounding. 2 things this dude brought, I don't give a shit how many points he scored.

Detroit is lottery bound.

[adidas11]

The deal is for 60 million/4 years.

[REDLION#22]

Shut the fuck up seriously.

You have to be the most obnoxious poster i've ever come across, not to mention the fact you have the intelligence of a 2-year old.


then again...its not my fault that you are a fan of such a depressing team;)

[ponky]

The deal is for 60 million/4 years.

Weird, the only reports that are saying 60 million are from a couple of Michigan papers, ,otherwise I've seen Chicago papers/ESPN say 52 million. I wonder if they're doing it to make it seem like the Pistons had their hands tied because the offer was so high. Dang, I wish someone would disclose the correct amount of the offer.

[violentkitten]

fuck man now someone will give the prophet 40 million. so much for plan c.

[ponky]

then again...its not my fault that you are a fan of such a depressing team;)

I hope you remember this for next year's playoffs, you're going to need it as consolation when your team gets bumped.

[Bob Lanier]

Redlion, I know I'm probably alone among the billions of people on the planet when I say this, but you're making my day a whole lot brighter.

[Spurologist]

:lol :lol

Flip wants the pistons to be his old T-wolves. So that means Ben is out.

Garnett = Sheed
Cassel = Billups
Sprewell = Hamilton
Rasho/ E. Johnson = whatever center they pick up.

The debacle that is pistons of 06-07 can get very very ugly

[ponky]

fuck man now someone will give the prophet 40 million. so much for plan c.

LMFAO, is that REALLY his nickname in SA?!?!?!?! It took me a sec to realize who you were referring to with "the prohet."

[REDLION#22]

I hope you remember this for next year's playoffs, you're going to need it as consolation when your team gets bumped.

really nostradamus???can you tell me the exact day?? :rolleyes

[timvp]

My apologies to Piston Nation. It's gotta be hard to see him go. Although he has broken down three years in a row and was really looking old against the Heat. The Pistons get lucky in a way if all they miss out of Big Ben is the painful decline. Smallish bigmen have the shortest lifespan in the NBA.

Now you just have to hope that McDyess and his knee can play 25-30 minutes a night.

Good luck.

[REDLION#22]

Redlion, I know I'm probably alone among the billions of people on the planet when I say this, but you're making my day a whole lot brighter.

:lol

[JamStone]

If I had to choose between Przybilla and Nazr, I would choose Przybilla.

However, I just say let Antonio McDyess start, play him a few more minutes, maybe up to 28 mpg. And, sign someone like Melvin Ely and work him into the rotation with Jason Maxiell. Hopefully, someone becomes adequate.

Pistons definitely lose a lot losing Ben. They are no longer one of the top teams in the league. I just hope they remain relatively competitive, and maybe with a little luck, they can still be among the top teams in the Eastern Conference.

But, I don't expect much next season.

[freedom&justice]

then again...its not my fault that you are a fan of such a depressing team;)

It's not our fault you're a lousy, moronic SOB who doesn't have anything better to do in his life than hang around other teams' message boards and irritate everyone.

[ponky]

really nostradamus???can you tell me the exact day?? :rolleyes

No, but only because the schedule hasn't been released...however, I can tell you that it will be by either the Spurs or Mavericks if the Bulls don't get to you first, they played your team well w/o Wallace this year. Maybe the Suns if there's some injury or whatever to the Texas teams.

[Kori Ellis]

REDLION - Bring more to the table or go to your room!

[violentkitten]

LMFAO, is that REALLY his nickname in SA?!?!?!?! It took me a sec to realize who you were referring to with "the prohet."

nah bitch, i just made that shit up. apparently you are that stupid.

[himat]

Thanks timvp. Unfortunantly I see Sheed tanking it next year because he'll be that dissapointed. If the Bulls are going to sign Ben for 60 million for 4 years they made a big mistake. The group will need to mesh and learn how to play on the later rounds of the playoffs. By that time Bens game will probably be declined a lot.

[FreshPrince22]

Fuck Me. Seriously... Fuck Me. :depressed

Just imagine Tim going to the Mavs in the offseason. That's what this feels like.

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

I still can't believe it. Even if he pissed me off this last year, I can't fathom him on another team. 60 million? Are the Bulls high or just stupid?

Well... I'm getting fucking trashed tonight :drunk

[Sense]

Fuck Me. Seriously... Fuck Me. :depressed

Just imagine Tim going to the Mavs in the offseason. That's what this feels like.

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

I still can't believe it. Even if he pissed me off this last year, I can't fathom him on another team. 60 million? Are the Bulls high or just stupid?

Well... I'm getting fucking trashed tonight :drunk

Yeah..

I'll be AMAZED if there's any team chemistry as good as it has been with Ben there..

If the Bulls improve... and the Pistons get worse..
Look for Ben to be the MVP next year..

[furry_spurry]

Let's see..
Nene $10M per year
Ben $15M per year
Peja $13M per year

What do you think the Spurs can get for the MLE again??

[violentkitten]

Let's see..
Nene $10M per year
Ben $15M per year
Peja $13M per year

What do you think the Spurs can get for the MLE again??

exactly. so fucked they are.

[FreshPrince22]

Yeah..

I'll be AMAZED if there's any team chemistry as good as it has been with Ben there..

If the Bulls improve... and the Pistons get worse..
Look for Ben to be the MVP next year..
Well, Ben did nothing to help the chemistry this year. I do worry what Sheed might do though (Joe may see this now as well and move him).

And he won't be the MVP. This isn't 01-03 Ben Wallace we're talking about here. Unless he was tanking it here the last few years, I don't see how it's possible.

[timvp]

I guess Przyalphabetsoup for $5M isn't too bad compared to Nene getting double and Big Ben getting triple.

[himat]

Yeah..

I'll be AMAZED if there's any team chemistry as good as it has been with Ben there..

If the Bulls improve... and the Pistons get worse..
Look for Ben to be the MVP next year..

Sheed is going to tank it next season
:cry .

The Pistons playoff run, Ben leaving, the groups run at history all gone like that. Sucks for Joe D. because he has to get the Pistons out of this shit while Bill davidson is being a cheap ass. :smokin

[Burn531]

REDLION - Bring more to the table or go to your room!

How bout you just ban him already. I'm surprised he's still here actually.

[ponky]

nah bitch, i just made that shit up. apparently you are that stupid.

classy

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

who is this guy? did he just turn up after the heat won the c'ship?

weak. At least ive been here talking trash through 2 1st rd exits :smokin

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I find myself warming up to the idea of Joel "blocks more than Rasho but is just as white" Pryzbilla

[Pistons < Spurs]

Ben Overrated? That is truly hilarious. The fact is the pistons are a jump-shooting team and have always been under Joe Dumars. The only player that seem to care, without any iota of being selfish, did his job and was unconcerned his own personal glory. That includes consistently grabbing offensive rebounds, being quicker against players 2-5 inches taller than him = steals, positioning, and hustling all over the court to ensure that Detroit is in a good position to win. That means he plays with heart all the time.

Agreed. But do not think for a minute that Bens ego was not as big if not bigger than any other member of the team. He lived for the accolades and personal glory as much as he sacrificed for the team.




Wallace/Mcdyess rarely play any power post up offense. When they got the ball they are setting up for their turnaround jumper 90% of the time.

I'd love to see more of a post game from this team.

Hopefully Sheed rotating to the 5 now will make him become more of the post player that we know he can be if and when he wants to be.

Part of the reason that we lack any sense of a low post game is Ben. As great as he is grabbing rebounds, he has poor coordination in regards to catching passes and going for a shot. He also has no 'soft touch' at all. He is not a finisher around the bucket. He just throws ball up in the air near the basket ... drawing the foul ... and missing his free throws.




Billups gets over confident with his jumper and jacks them up time after time. He wants to live up to the name "Mr. Big Shot" Mr. Big shot time is never a lay-up. That has always been the case. Hamilton is a rhythm jump shooter. With a good defender on him, his ass is owned. That is truth. Prince - I like a lot. The problem is: he doesn't ever live up to his potential in the playoffs. He always seems to choke in during the game and especially in crucial situations. He was a bog surprise in his first playoff games, hitting three after three but it has been downhill from there.


Yeah Chauncey tries to be a hero at times. Luckily he has shown a knack of knowing when to turn it on and usualy being able to do it.

Rip is a shooter. that's it. However, last year especially late in the year and in the playoffs, I noticed a huge improvement in his desire and ability to break his defender, and drive to the hole. More improvement is needed, but it was still good to see.

Prince can do a little bit of everything. He too often appears to be waiting for others to lead the show. He needs to lose the 'I'm the 3rd option' mentality, and bring it. Take what the defense is giving you and attack.



The one constant has been Ben Wallace. When all those shots by the perimeter players have been jacked up, it is Ben cleaning up the mess to give his team another chance. Another chance = better percentage/chance to score = better chance to win.

Ben's game has tampered off a bit

For three years the constant has been decline, decline, decline. not too mention more of a display of a poor attitude.


His decline was especially noticable in the playoffs.

last year he averaged:

11.3 rebounds and 2.2 blocks while shooting 41% from the free throw line

in the playoffs he averaged:

10.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks while shooting 27% from the free throw line

So much for stepping it up when it matters most!

And lets not forget against the Spurs, his wife had to call him out because he wasn't showing any effort in games 1 or 2.


In the short term I do agree though. Him being on the team does give us a better chance ... but it's the long run where it makes no sense. If the 60 million deal is to be believed, he'd be making more than 20 million a year, 3 years from now. Thats jsut damn crazy. That sounds like an Allan Houston contract to me.





but you can/must attribute that to:



Flip Saunders. It's delusional to think that there wasn't some turmoil in that pistons locker room. Wallace made it clear that Flip wasn't focusing on defense and that is why it showed on the court. It is my belief that Ben saw in his teammates that they were transformed into more of an offensive team and they weren't showing that type of D to make them successful. So Ben is basically saying, "Fuck it. I'm out.



No way. First Ben says his teamates are too geared for offense? but then says that he needs the ball more?

Chauncey and other people who are at practices on a regular basis have already said long ago that Ben was flat out wrong. That they actually practiced and focused much more defense under Flip. Under LB defense was never pressed. The "players just went out there and did it"

But again I'll agree with you, and say that the defense while good, compared to most NBA teams, was definetly up to standards that we previously set for ourselves.



You better believe Ben will come out like a Bull heading into Chicago. Pun intended. His game will be rejuvenated. This move only makes Detroit a top 5 seed in the east. And no they are not in the top 3.

Top 5 sounds about right. We'll need to see what happens. But I like the teams experience against others in the playoffs.

[strangeweather]

Man, I find myself warming up to the idea of Joel "blocks more than Rasho but is just as white" Pryzbilla
Seconded. He's far from perfect, but at least he can rebound and block.

[Despot]

Sooo......in hindsight, how bad does it hurt to have traded Darko?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Man, I find myself warming up to the idea of Joel "blocks more than Rasho but is just as white" Pryzbilla
You and me both brotha! Its still just the third day in FA. though.

[clubalien]

white men can jump! and dunk! and block! and rebound!

[Pistons < Spurs]

Sooo......in hindsight, how bad does it hurt to have traded Darko?


As I said when it happened, we will live to regret trading him.

Joe's mistake was not in drafting him, but on giving up on him IMO.

[SA210]

Get Pryz!

[Quadzilla99]

Damn $60 million that makes more sense initially it was on ESPN.com at $52 million over 4. I didn't think Ben would leave for $1 million a year more but this makes much more sense. Damn. He got paid. Big Time.

[furry_spurry]

Funny how Spurs fans keep lowering their standards.

[himat]

Some good news. Pistons resigned Lindsey and he will work with Joe D. when he retires.

[Slinkyman]

Funny how Spurs fans keep lowering their standards.

You'll know when their standards hit rock bottom when spurs fans want Rasho back

[furry_spurry]

You'll know when their standards hit rock bottom when spurs fans want Rasho back
Look at how many people suddenly want to re-sign Nazr-- and that would be for 5 years instead of Rasho's 3. :lol

[Slinkyman]

Look at how many people suddenly want to re-sign Nazr-- and that would be for 5 years instead of Rasho's 3. :lol

well to be fair, the spurs won a championship with Nazr at center so that might have something to do with it, but i'd rather play Bonner at center.

[REDLION#22]

Some good news. Pistons resigned Lindsey and he will work with Joe D. when he retires.

Yeah that will be a hughe turnaround!!! :lol :lol :lol

[Quadzilla99]

The Bulls are going to have an absolutely amazing defense next year they led the NBA in field goal defense by almost a full percentage point last year. Imagine what they can do next year.

[Bob Lanier]

Chauncey and other people who are at practices on a regular basis have already said long ago that Ben was flat out wrong. That they actually practiced and focused much more defense under Flip.
I find that almost impossible to believe, especially when the "confirmation" comes from Chauncey, the journeyman who in Flip's system is a max-contract-to-be "MVP candidate" (until he actually needs direction in the playoffs and there's no coach to provide it), and the assorted rabble from the Detroit media, who had received no cues to sabotage Flip from the front office.

Under LB defense was never pressed. The "players just went out there and did it"
I remember when Antonio McDyess first practiced in Detroit, he made particular note of the fact that LB's defensive system was more complex than any he'd ever seen, and the amount of attention payed to defense under LB was beyond any experience he'd had in his career.

Flip is an awful defensive coach, and nothing he ever said to the media during his tenure in Detroit leads me to believe that he cared about defensive basketball - except, of course, when he was specifically pressed on the issue, after which stories about his legendary defensive practices emerged. Any failure was blamed on poor offensive execution or shooting; or maybe minor coaching mistakes had been made, and vague promises of corrections (not one of which did he actually keep) were issued. Even in the regular season before his beloved offense melted down, statistically the Pistons' defense was mediocre and any observer could see that it was undisciplined. Flip couldn't design an effective defensive scheme, he couldn't adapt to any adjustments opposing offenses made, and most importantly he couldn't motivate his players to consistently apply effort and discipline on that end of the floor. I don't care how rigorous his practices were, because the only results that matter are the ones shown on the court in-game, and those results expose Flip as a fraud.

I believe, no matter what is written, that Ben's dislike of Flip was a major cause in his departure from Detroit.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Some good news. Pistons resigned Lindsey and he will work with Joe D. when he retires.


As much as I love Hunter ... I'd rather he retire. I'd love to see him in the fornt office or coaching. I would like to see Blalock or even Acker get some run. I think Blalock is going to be a great player for us. He is much more of a passer than hunter or even Chauncey is.

We're going to be more of a running team this year. One of Chauncey's negatives is that he is not so wonderful on the break. He see openings too late. I've watched him lead too many 2 on 1's and 3 on 1's where he couldn't figure out how or when to pass the ball.

I think Blalock will be a huge advantage in a more up tempo set. Hunter being on the team just keeps him and Acker on the bench.

We'll see though. I'm looking forward to the summer league to see what some of the younger guys can do.

[Vizzini]

I love Ben Wallace and I thank him for all that he has given to Detroit sports fans, but he is not worth what amounts to 15 mil a year until he is 36. That is just no feasible. The Pistons may take a hit now, but in a few years when Chauncey, Rip and Tay are still near the top of their game, they will be able to totally rebuild their front court and be competitive again. What a shitty day for Detroit sports fans, first Steve Yzerman retires and then Big Ben leaves for Chicago. Thank God the Tigers are playing great or this would be the most depressing summer ever.

P.S. on a good note, now whenever I see or hear ESPN mention a story about Big Ben, I won't need to wait around only to be disapointed about another story on Ben Roethesliberger (sp?)

[Vinnie_Johnson]

The Bulls are going to have an absolutely amazing defense next year they led the NBA in field goal defense by almost a full percentage point last year. Imagine what they can do next year.

True but who is there go to scoring guy?? 4 years 60 million for a 32 year old 6-10 center is a little much.

[beirmeistr]

might be closer to 6-9

[Vinnie_Johnson]

I love Ben Wallace and I thank him for all that he has given to Detroit sports fans, but he is not worth what amounts to 15 mil a year until he is 36. That is just no feasible. The Pistons may take a hit now, but in a few years when Chauncey, Rip and Tay are still near the top of their game, they will be able to totally rebuild their front court and be competitive again. What a shitty day for Detroit sports fans, first Steve Yzerman retires and then Big Ben leaves for Chicago. Thank God the Tigers are playing great or this would be the most depressing summer ever.

P.S. on a good note, now whenever I see or hear ESPN mention a story about Big Ben, I won't need to wait around only to be disapointed about another story on Ben Roethesliberger (sp?)

Truth be told I am not half as sick as I was when Hill left that was a dark day.

[Bob Lanier]

Generously 6-8.

[Vizzini]

Truth be told I am not half as sick as I was when Hill left that was a dark day.


Very true. I will never forget that day. I was absolutley stunned when Grant left. This one doesn't hurt nearly as much.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Very true. I will never forget that day. I was absolutley stunned when Grant left. This one doesn't hurt nearly as much.

Those were dark days we didn't even sniff the playoffs. When Hill left I felt like I was dumped by a stone cold babe.

[Quadzilla99]

Generously 6-8.

He actually admitted he was 6'7 in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=2437567

"Though Wallace is listed as a 6-foot-9, 240-pound center, he said he's really 6-7, making his respectable matchups with O'Neal even more impressive because he gives up six inches and about 100 pounds."

[AFE7FATMAN]

All he's getting is $1 million more a Year than the Pistons offered him? Why would he leave?
Can you say Flip" :lol

[Pistons < Spurs]

I find that almost impossible to believe, especially when the "confirmation" comes from Chauncey, the journeyman who in Flip's system is a max-contract-to-be "MVP candidate" (until he actually needs direction in the playoffs and there's no coach to provide it), and the assorted rabble from the Detroit media, who had received no cues to sabotage Flip from the front office.

Your dislike of Chauncey is well known! You always have something negative for him in your comments! I know you think he's been bought by Flip! But I still listen to what he says. Yes he's more of a 'politician' than Ben is in regards to his comments and interviews he gives. But to me, Ben is more of a grumpy whiny child at times, and can't really take anything he says seriously. He simply bitches too much for me.




I remember when Antonio McDyess first practiced in Detroit, he made particular note of the fact that LB's defensive system was more complex than any he'd ever seen, and the amount of attention payed to defense under LB was beyond any experience he'd had in his career.

Flip is an awful defensive coach, and nothing he ever said to the media during his tenure in Detroit leads me to believe that he cared about defensive basketball - except, of course, when he was specifically pressed on the issue, after which stories about his legendary defensive practices emerged. Any failure was blamed on poor offensive execution or shooting; or maybe minor coaching mistakes had been made, and vague promises of corrections (not one of which did he actually keep) were issued. Even in the regular season before his beloved offense melted down, statistically the Pistons' defense was mediocre and any observer could see that it was undisciplined. Flip couldn't design an effective defensive scheme, he couldn't adapt to any adjustments opposing offenses made, and most importantly he couldn't motivate his players to consistently apply effort and discipline on that end of the floor. I don't care how rigorous his practices were, because the only results that matter are the ones shown on the court in-game, and those results expose Flip as a fraud.

I don't think anyone will ever say that Flip is a defensive coach. Let alone a good defensive coach. My belief though, is that our performance on the defensive side has always been pure effort.

I strongly agree with:


and most importantly he couldn't motivate his players to consistently apply effort and discipline on that end of the floor.

You nailed it with that comment. I do wonder though if it was really that his abilities and message sucks, or the players, beefed up on cockiness and arrogance this year, just didn't listen. They blocked him out IMO thinking they knew everything and could get it done when they needed to. Maybe now they will refocus, and take things a little more seriously.

I think way too many people put all the blame on Flip. They love to pile it all on his shoulders. Sure, he's an easy scapegoat. But I thought this year was supposed where the players showed that it wasn't LB's brilliance, but rather their wonderful chemistry and abilities that got it done for them. They can't have it both ways. I saw way more arrogance in them this year. I saw way too little effort at times. Of course the Coach shares in some of the blame. There were tons of things he could have done better. But IMO the players ALWAYS take more responsibility than the players for success and for failure.


I believe, no matter what is written, that Ben's dislike of Flip was a major cause in his departure from Detroit.I know you do. You've made that quite clear on many occasions. I just don't agree with you! lol :lol

[Vizzini]

Those were dark days we didn't even sniff the playoffs. When Hill left I felt like I was dumped by a stone cold babe.


Exactly. Those where the days of cheering for Grant Hill's all-star vote totals and praying for an above .500 record.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Exactly. Those where the days of cheering for Grant Hill's all-star vote totals and praying for an above .500 record.

I can't tell you how happy I was that he signed a center named Bison Dele :lol Terry Mills for threeeeee!!!!!

[Vizzini]

I can't tell you how happy I was that he signed a center named Bison Dele :lol Terry Mills for threeeeee!!!!!


Bison Dele! Good Lord I had forgotten about him. Terry Mills and his rainbow threes, Grant Long and Cadillac Anderson, Oliver Miller and Bill Curley. The Pistons have come a long way since then.

[Trainwreck2100]

Those were dark days we didn't even sniff the playoffs. When Hill left I felt like I was dumped by a stone cold babe.

didn't you dodge a bullet with his injury though?

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Bison Dele! Good Lord I had forgotten about him. Terry Mills and his rainbow threes, Grant Long and Cadillac Anderson, Oliver Miller and Bill Curley. The Pistons have come a long way since then.

Those guys were no William Bedford or Fenis Dembo mind you.







Ah crap I need a stiff drink sound the gong :drunk

[Quadzilla99]

Don't forget the Bulls also get the Knicks pick from next year (they switch picks). If they get Oden which is actually possible that'd be ridiculous.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

didn't you dodge a bullet with his injury though?


Damn straight best thing that ever happened to the team. But at the time we were all just sick. Think about what it would have felt like if Duncan joined him.

[Vizzini]

Those guys were no William Bedford or Fenis Dembo mind you.







Ah crap I need a stiff drink sound the gong :drunk


Yeah, it won't be nearly as bad until November rolls around. He will be missed, not 15 mil a year missed, but missed never the less.

[Spurologist]

Pistons fans. There is a great replacement out there for Benny Wallace. This guy is a balla too.






K
























V



















H

[Isiah Thomas]

Don't forget the Bulls also get the Knicks pick from next year (they switch picks). If they get Oden which is actually possible that'd be ridiculous.


I think not my friend, the Bulls will get the 80th pick when my team goes 94-0

[timvp]

Pistons fans. The is a great replacement out there for Benny Wallace. This guy is a balla too.






K
























V



















H


That would be funny but who do you think the Spurs sign if they don't get Przybilla?

Yep.

[Spurologist]

That would be funny but who do you think the Spurs sign if they don't get Przybilla?

Yep.

Every iota of the spurs in my being with cease to exist.

:bang This will also be part of my daily routine

[ducks]

bulls will be trading players now
spurs need to get involved

pj brown anyone?

[ducks]

Chad Ford on Big Ben and the changing NBA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...chad&id=2508827

Ben Wallace was the heart of a champion.

The 'fro of the franchise.

In this moment of franchise tragedy, Pistons fans are asking the obvious question: How could this happen?

The engine that churned the six collective Pistons into an NBA champion.
On Monday, Big Ben tolled one last time for the Pistons. His agent, Arn Tellem, called Pistons president Joe Dumars to deliver the bad news: Wallace had decided to collect a bigger paycheck from the Chicago Bulls.

We now recognize a moment of silence so Pistons fans can mourn.

In this moment of franchise tragedy, Pistons fans are asking the obvious question: How could this happen?

Wasn't Wallace a lock to re-sign with the Pistons five months ago? Didn't the Pistons trade Darko Milicic, in part, to free up cap space to re-sign Wallace?

Wasn't this starting five like family, a family that could never be broken up?

Five months ago, the answers all seemed to be pointing firmly toward "yes."

Wallace had fired long-time agent Steve Kaufmann and insinuated that he didn't need an agent to negotiate his deal. Dumars sounded confident that a deal would get done and that Wallace was his first priority.

Milicic was traded at the February deadline. The explanation was twofold. He wasn't going to get into the rotation as long as Ben, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess were on the team. He had a large salary for the upcoming season, and the Pistons needed to free up some room (they also traded Carlos Arroyo for salary cap reasons) to get more space.

And don't forget that the Pistons were on pace to win more games than anyone since the Bulls won 70 games. We expected them to roll through the playoffs, dismiss their Western Conference challenger and win a second title in three years.

But then things changed. Wallace started going public with his criticism of coach Flip Saunders. He hired superagent Tellem to negotiate his contract. The Pistons had their lunch handed to them by the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals.

By the time July 1 hit, nothing was set in stone.

The Pistons made a quick contract offer of four years, $48 million -- more than they wanted to pay for a center who turns 32 in September and saw his numbers, across the board, decline this season.

On Saturday, Bulls coach Scott Skiles and GM John Paxson went to Detroit to meet with Wallace. After discussions with several teams about sign-and-trades, Wallace's agent informed the Pistons on Monday that the forward was leaving.

By then, the Pistons were bracing for the bad news. As soon as they heard that the offers were close -- but that Wallace was still leaning another way -- the writing was on the wall.

The bell, as Donne famously wrote, "tolls for thee."

Losing Ben is traumatic enough. But his loss likely forever changes the Pistons as we know them.

The Bad Boys. The blue-collar workers whose signature was brutal defense and gritty offense will likely lie down in a plot next to Ben.

Without Wallace anchoring the middle, the Pistons will have no choice but to change.

Sure, they could go on the free-agent market and try to lure a player such as Joel Przybilla or Nazr Mohammed. Both guys are physical, and both rebound and block shots. But they're poor imitations of Wallace. The Pistons were unable to win the title the past two years with the real thing. What makes you expect they can do it with a knockoff?

What this forces the Pistons to do is change. Change for the better? That's still up for debate.

The Pistons' style of play was ugly. Although their hometown fans supported it, the NBA commissioner didn't. David Stern pushed through a number of changes and emphases in the rules that took away the Pistons' ability to do what they do best: play physical defense on the perimeter that funneled offensive players into Big Ben's lair.

"No one was hurt more by the new rules changes and emphases than the Pistons," one prominent NBA general manager told ESPN Insider. "The league decided they wanted to encourage more scoring and allow quick perimeter players to penetrate at will. It ripped the heart out of what made Detroit so special. Eventually, we knew this would catch up with them."

The Pistons brass slowly began realizing it, too, during the playoffs. Teams with players such as Dwyane Wade were thriving. The Ben Wallaces of the world were often sitting on the sideline waving towels thanks to foul trouble and bad matchups.
So, the question Pistons officials had to ask themselves July 1 was this: Did they continue down the same road, or did they change direction before it was too late?

Re-signing Wallace meant that the Pistons were locked into the same starting five for the next five years. If their losses in the playoffs for the past two years weren't a fluke, the team would struggle to regain its championship form.

Choosing not to sign Wallace also has consequences. It makes an already thin Pistons team thinner. The Pistons don't have the cap room to make a run at a major free agent, meaning they'll have to piece together replacements with the mid-level exception and the draft. It seems unlikely that the Pistons would get better in the process.

However, a change might do the Pistons good. The best plan might be to move Rasheed Wallace to the five and McDyess into the starting lineup at the four. That makes the Pistons bigger, more athletic and improves their offense significantly. They'll no longer have to play four-on-five every night on the offensive end of the floor.

A number of teams are succeeding with this lineup. The Mavericks beat the Spurs in the playoffs using a similar configuration, and the Suns have been red hot for two years without a true center.
Saunders isn't averse to playing this way, and he certainly has the tools to get it done. Chauncey Billups' instincts are to push the ball. Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace can stretch the defense with their shooting. McDyess does much of the dirty work that Ben Wallace did. And the Pistons do have players on their bench who can help.

Everyone in Detroit is saying that Carlos Delfino will play a much bigger role next season. He can slash to the basket and is excellent in transition. The Pistons also are expecting a contribution from second-year player Jason Maxiell -- a rough, physical, undersized athlete who reminded many scouts of Ben Wallace when he was drafted last season.

And the Pistons still have free agency to add another piece or two to the puzzle. They could still use an athletic scorer in their backcourt who could slash to the basket and get easy buckets or foul shots.

In other words, things may not be as bad for the Pistons as fans may think. There may be life after Big Ben.

As for Wallace? He heads to a Chicago Bulls team that already has a problem scoring. With the exception of Ben Gordon and (late in the season) Andreas Nocioni, the team didn't have a consistent scoring threat.

Adding Wallace to the mix doesn't help that. He may be the only center in the league that's worse than Tyson Chandler offensively. While he adds defensive grit and shot-blocking, the Bulls used almost all of their cap space to get him. They overpaid big time and will have to live with that contract for the next four years.

If they don't find a consistent low-post scorer (the Bulls are shopping Chandler looking for one) they could be in a position similar to the one the Pistons found themselves in last season: plenty of defense, but no offense to speak of.

If that happens, it will be the ultimate irony for Wallace. He left thinking that he'd written the obituary of the franchise. Instead, it might be Big Ben and the Bulls for whom the bell tolls.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

[loveforthegame]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Monday night that the Bulls were close to shipping Tyson Chandler to the Hornets for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith.

[Isiah Thomas]

That would be funny but who do you think the Spurs sign if they don't get Przybilla?

Yep.

KVH is an awesome power forward, I almost picked him to be the fifth PF in our rotation

[Spurologist]

Question for Isiah Thomas. What is your opening day lineup?

[ducks]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Monday night that the Bulls were close to shipping Tyson Chandler to the Hornets for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith.

spurs need to get involved and get pj brown

[ChumpDumper]

WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?

[Spurologist]

spurs need to get involved and get pj brown

Don't you think anyone born in the 60s is too old to play in the league. Could be a different story but Brown is done.

[ducks]

brown has one year left on his contract
spurs need someone this year dude

[Isiah Thomas]

Question for Isiah Thomas. What is your opening day lineup?
Honestly, that's tricky, there's alot of pieces to work in, have you ever tried putting together a puzzle with only corners and no middle, or the box to use as an example. It's very hard, but with my army of point guards and undersized PFs I will rule this league, like I rule my team.

[timvp]

WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?

According to a Hornets inside source on hornetsreport.com, they are starting Peja at 2 and Mason at 3.

I don't put much stock into inside sources on message boards but this guy called who the Hornets would pick in the draft and the signings of Peja and BJax. Plus he said that Big Ben would sign with the Bulls.

It's either an inside source or my alter ego.

:drunk

[Quadzilla99]

brown has one year left on his contract
spurs need someone this year dude

That's what I meant for 1 year. Maybe he squeezes one decent year out of himself, might need a hip replacement at his age though.

[ducks]

the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

so it might go down to

[timvp]

the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

so it might go down to

Yeah, that too.

He says its PJ + JR Smith for Chandler + Malik Allen.

[Quadzilla99]

the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

so it might go down to

No Dice on PJ then Ok. You have to be careful with him at his age anyway if he falls down he could break a hip.

[clubalien]

MLE sign and trade
nazr we can sign afterward regardless of cap

[aaronstampler]

If I were a Pistons fan, I'd say screw Ben Wallace. I mean seriously, FUCK HIM.

THEY gave him a chance and pulled him from the scrap heap.

THEY gave him a 6 year 30 mil contract when he was a nobody.

THEY gave him a very generous 12 mil a year offer, that would've taken him to age 36. 12 MIL A YEAR for a guy who can't score. Like 8 mil more than Bruce gets. Dumars kept his word and offered him a contract that would've made Ben the highest paid guy on the team, even though he's nowhere near their best player.

All this despite Ben playing like crap in the playoffs and getting into numerous arguments and disruptions with Flip. It could easily be argued that he was the Wallace that was a bigger pain in the butt last year.

Not only did Dumars not punish Ben, but he kept his word and rewarded him. And Ben goes to a division rival for another measly million or two a year?

FUCK HIM.

Dumars couldn't have handled this any better. Nobody should blame him at all. The one mistake he made in all of this was in A) trading Darko and B) not demanding to his coaches that Darko gets 20+ mins a game, which really shouldn't have been too much to ask for, since they play so many games against crap teams in the East.

Darko will easily be a better player than Ben in two years, and may already be so by next year.

The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.

For anybody like Sequ to suggest that the Pistons won't make the playoffs next year, that's just asinine. The East is so weak, there's no way they go from #1 to #9 in one year. Dumars is a good GM and he'll figure it out and he'll either get Sheed to play hard or trade him for someone who will.

[furry_spurry]

MLE sign and trade
nazr we can sign afterward regardless of cap
I just don't see the Spurs opening their pocketbooks that much.

[coachmac87]

well i think i would be really shocked if nazr does not resign with the spurs now....he really wanted to go to chicago.... and with ben going there it wont be possible...i think u can pencil in pryzbilla into det.....now the spurs need to find some versitale players

[Vinnie_Johnson]

If I were a Pistons fan, I'd say screw Ben Wallace. I mean seriously, FUCK HIM.

THEY gave him a chance and pulled him from the scrap heap.

THEY gave him a 6 year 30 mil contract when he was a nobody.

THEY gave him a very generous 12 mil a year offer, that would've taken him to age 36. 12 MIL A YEAR for a guy who can't score. Like 8 mil more than Bruce gets. Dumars kept his word and offered him a contract that would've made Ben the highest paid guy on the team, even though he's nowhere near their best player.

All this despite Ben playing like crap in the playoffs and getting into numerous arguments and disruptions with Flip. It could easily be argued that he was the Wallace that was a bigger pain in the butt last year.

Not only did Dumars not punish Ben, but he kept his word and rewarded him. And Ben goes to a division rival for another measly million or two a year?

FUCK HIM.

Dumars couldn't have handled this any better. Nobody should blame him at all. The one mistake he made in all of this was in A) trading Darko and B) not demanding to his coaches that Darko gets 20+ mins a game, which really shouldn't have been too much to ask for, since they play so many games against crap teams in the East.

Darko will easily be a better player than Ben in two years, and may already be so by next year.

The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.

For anybody like Sequ to suggest that the Pistons won't make the playoffs next year, that's just asinine. The East is so weak, there's no way they go from #1 to #9 in one year. Dumars is a good GM and he'll figure it out and he'll either get Sheed to play hard or trade him for someone who will.

Nice post Ben got full of himself on a team that has no ego's Ben sure has one now.

[ChumpDumper]

I just don't see the Spurs opening their pocketbooks that much.Depends on the tax threshold.

[coachmac87]

wow what really pisses me off is the poll on nba.com when it asked which team will win the championship next year and the spurs are not even on the poll....wtf is that bs

[j-6]

Those guys were no William Bedford or Fenis Dembo mind you.

http://www.topgun-lefilm.com/personnages/goose.jpg

There's two O's in Goose. There's two N's in Fennis. Sorry to run grammar smack, Microwave, but Dembo was the best player to come out of SA until that big deputy sheriff in Miami was a kid.

Dembo got a ring too, I think.

[JamStone]

WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?


Makes the most sense. At least Peja can shoot the 3-ball, so having a 2-guard with no range on his jumper doesn't hurt that much. And, Mason is athletic enough to defend any 2-guard in the league. Actually, it makes a lot of sense to start Des Mason at the 2-guard with Peja at the 3-guard. Mason was a 6-4 small forward for the Milwaukee Bucks in 2004 and that team was in the playoffs.

[Kori Ellis]

wow what really pisses me off is the poll on nba.com when it asked which team will win the championship next year and the spurs are not even on the poll....wtf is that bs

That's because it only lists the teams that were in the conference championships. It's not a conspiracy. :)

[ducks]

1) JR Smith isn't wanted by many teams, including the Bulls (that's not to say that he wont still be packaged in the deal)
2) In light of some recent developments, we don't need or want Malik Allen (once again don't take it off the board because the original trade involving PJ+JR for Chandler and Allen was agreed to)
3) Bottom line: The Bulls want PJ and the Hornets want Chandler
http://hornetsreport.com/HRForums/s...ead.php?t=34834

looks like it could be bulls and hornets trade but spurs do not get pj brown just jr smith




this hornetresport guy is SAYING BULLS DO NOT WANT SMITH HUMM....

[Dunc]

I have conflicting emotions about this. On the one hand, I'm sad to see him go. He's been the heart and soul all these years, the face of the franchise, he helped us win a ring and established an Eastern Conference dynasty. On the other hand, I saw some things this year that I must admit I didn't like. His drop in production wasn't cool. The challenges to authority didn't impress me. His failure to show up in the playoffs disappointed me. And he'll turn 32 before the season starts. I wanted him to come back, but now that he isn't, I'm ok with it. He shouldn't have gotten offered any more than he was. I think Chicago will find that they drastically overpaid for him, too. And that's cool with me. Dude deserved to get paid. I have no ill will towards him. When the Bulls come to town and his name is introduced, I'll be the first one on my feet to cheer him and the last to sit down. But it's time to move on, I guess.

[Quadzilla99]

I know I said this already but the Bulls get the Knicks pick next year they could conceivably get Oden and if not then Noah or Kevin Durant. Even though they overpaid to get Ben they have a lot of young talent. Their future is enormously bright.

[Despot]

1) JR Smith isn't wanted by many teams, including the Bulls (that's not to say that he wont still be packaged in the deal)
2) In light of some recent developments, we don't need or want Malik Allen (once again don't take it off the board because the original trade involving PJ+JR for Chandler and Allen was agreed to)
3) Bottom line: The Bulls want PJ and the Hornets want Chandler
http://hornetsreport.com/HRForums/s...ead.php?t=34834

looks like it could be bulls and hornets trade but spurs do not get pj brown just jr smith




this hornetresport guy is SAYING BULLS DO NOT WANT SMITH HUMM....


Could the Spurs be a third team? would it work?

[clubalien]

I am suprised duck hasn't copied Amente's post over here yet

[Vinnie_Johnson]

http://www.topgun-lefilm.com/personnages/goose.jpg

There's two O's in Goose. There's two N's in Fennis. Sorry to run grammar smack, Microwave, but Dembo was the best player to come out of SA until that big deputy sheriff in Miami was a kid.

Dembo got a ring too, I think.

My bad you are right good old Fennis I thought he was a player when we took him.

[picnroll]

Is the Darko fiasco the single greatest clusterfuck in the history of the NBA?

Also if the Spurs sign KVH I'll take a couple years sabbatical form basketball.

[clubalien]

picnroll you pulling a tpark?

[picnroll]

picnroll you pulling a tpark?
Their were some that couldn't stomach Malone as a Spur. I just couldn't bear to see KVH in silver and black. Too painful.

[sghspurs]

what the fuck is your problem REDLION. damn dude don't you have better things to do like enjoy your championship or something. don't kick a man while he's down.

[ponky]

The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.


Uh, just like it got the Mavs? I think WADE got the Mavs, not karma, give the Heat SOME credit and stop with this karma nonsense. I don't believe either Nash with the Suns or Finley with the Spurs came back to bite us in the ass....no, I'm quite sure it was the Heat, although those other teams made it close.

[ponky]

wow what really pisses me off is the poll on nba.com when it asked which team will win the championship next year and the spurs are not even on the poll....wtf is that bs


yes, they are...it's that whole *other team* part, i'm fairly certain this is pointing to the spurs...stupid nba.com just goes with the four conference finalists

[freedom&justice]

If I were a Pistons fan, I'd say screw Ben Wallace. I mean seriously, FUCK HIM.

THEY gave him a chance and pulled him from the scrap heap.

THEY gave him a 6 year 30 mil contract when he was a nobody.

THEY gave him a very generous 12 mil a year offer, that would've taken him to age 36. 12 MIL A YEAR for a guy who can't score. Like 8 mil more than Bruce gets. Dumars kept his word and offered him a contract that would've made Ben the highest paid guy on the team, even though he's nowhere near their best player.

All this despite Ben playing like crap in the playoffs and getting into numerous arguments and disruptions with Flip. It could easily be argued that he was the Wallace that was a bigger pain in the butt last year.

Not only did Dumars not punish Ben, but he kept his word and rewarded him. And Ben goes to a division rival for another measly million or two a year?

FUCK HIM.

Dumars couldn't have handled this any better. Nobody should blame him at all. The one mistake he made in all of this was in A) trading Darko and B) not demanding to his coaches that Darko gets 20+ mins a game, which really shouldn't have been too much to ask for, since they play so many games against crap teams in the East.

Darko will easily be a better player than Ben in two years, and may already be so by next year.

The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.

For anybody like Sequ to suggest that the Pistons won't make the playoffs next year, that's just asinine. The East is so weak, there's no way they go from #1 to #9 in one year. Dumars is a good GM and he'll figure it out and he'll either get Sheed to play hard or trade him for someone who will.

Well said; and IF we get Pryz we'll at least have a little more offense from our 5 spot and not have to watch Ben miss so many FTs in crunch time.
Ben's ego has really ballooned since we won the 'ship in 04..he was practically asking us to throw away our team's chances of re-signing our PG to keep him.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Fuck him and his bloated contract.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Wallace deal gives Bulls a spot on center stage
Acquiring the defensive dynamo stamps the Bulls as title contenders


There's an exclusive club in the NBA. It admits only the best, those most motivated and most celebrated. It's the club for championship contenders.

And the Bulls regained admittance on Monday.

The Bulls pulled off the coup of the 2006 Summer of Free Agency with the signing of Detroit Pistons four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year Ben Wallace.

With the acquisition of Wallace, the only NBA player last season to finish in the top 10 in rebounds, steals and blocks, the Bulls landed the league's premier defensive anchor while taking away from perhaps their biggest rival the player regarded as the heart and soul of the team that won the 2004 championship and was runner-up in 2005.

The Bulls stepped up big-time with a four-year deal worth $60 million, topping the Pistons' bid by about $10 million.

"This is just one of those things," Wallace told the Detroit News late Monday. "You get a chance to sign the deal of a lifetime. It's tough to let it go."

Wallace, thought to be a slam-dunk to return to the Pistons, was also a motivated Bulls free agent, unlike some Bulls free-agency missteps of the past—as in 2000 when the Bulls had a treasure chest of salary-cap room, but air-balled on Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill and Tim Duncan and ended up with Ron Mercer and Brad Miller.

This time, acting with more commitment and an open wallet, the Bulls smothered the competition for Wallace and overwhelmed the Detroit offer. The Pistons on Monday tried last-minute attempts at a sign-and-trade with the Knicks and the 76ers, but Wallace rejected both opportunities to come to the Bulls.

The Pistons obtained Virginia Union product Wallace from the Orlando Magic in 2000 in the Grant Hill sign-and-trade, and he helped rebuild their franchise.

Other prospects mediocre

Fortunately for the Bulls, Wallace accepted their deal Monday because they were about to impose a deadline and move on to other free agents. That field was hardly strong, with the likes of Joel Przybilla, Drew Gooden and Nazr Mohammed next in line.

No, they are no Ben Wallaces.

And it looks like Wallace will have a veteran running mate on the Bulls' revamped front line.

It's not that the Bulls were afraid of Wallace and Tyson Chandler getting into a free-throw shooting contest and no one winning. But the Bulls now are expected to trade Chandler to the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets for veteran forward P.J. Brown, league sources confirmed.

In addition to Brown being a solid, veteran pro in the mold of Antonio Davis, Brown is going into the final season of his contract and will give the Bulls flexibility in regards to signing all their young players—Kirk Hinrich this summer and Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni and Ben Gordon next summer—to contract extensions.

Despite Chandler's uneven play, he is well regarded, especially in the Western Conference, and the Bulls have gotten feelers for deals regarding Troy Murphy of Golden State, Marcus Camby of Denver and Carlos Boozer of Utah.

But all those players have long-term contracts, which could force the Bulls into giving up one of their so-called core players in the future to stay within the constraints of the salary cap and luxury tax.

Now that seems unlikely, and Brown paired with Wallace should also provide the benefit of more respect for the Bulls' young players with the referees and the presence of veteran defenders behind the perimeter players.

Smaller game in vogue

The 6-foot-9-inch Wallace and 6-11 Brown figure to start at center and power forward, and though that makes the Bulls somewhat small without Chandler, the NBA has been evolving into a quicker, smaller game that seems to more suit the skilled players the Bulls have.


It was evident in the playoffs, and even though Miami won the championship with Shaquille O'Neal, it wasn't his presence that was instrumental. Even the mighty Spurs went with smaller players in their series against Dallas.

Now the Bulls can bring rookie Tyrus Thomas along without added pressure and are in position to get a good big man in the 2007 draft when they have the right to swap first-round picks with the Knicks.


And it gets even better for the Bulls.

It certainly weakens the Pistons. The Pacers took a step back, losing Peja Stojakovic in free agency to the Hornets with nothing to show from the Ron Artest trade. The Bucks traded their point guard, T.J. Ford, for Charlie Villanueva. The Heat hardly seems like a dynasty with O'Neal on the decline and an aging supporting cast, and LeBron James is terrific but needs help in Cleveland.

The conference finals seem more reality than possibility for the Bulls next season.

Of course, there are questions with Wallace.

He's the poorest free-throw shooter in the NBA and gets purposely fouled at times, the hack-a-Ben.

He has feuded with just about every coach in Detroit, and staged an open display against Flip Saunders in the playoffs this year.

He tends to be moody and pout at times, refusing to re-enter a game in March at the coach's request because he was angry at the team's effort and his role.

Despite his offensive limitations, he believes he should be an offensive option. And he was another guy talking about being disappointed and offended by an eight-figure contract offer.

But, hey, this is the NBA.

He's a warrior

And what Wallace brings is hard to find. He's a rare player in that "warrior" category who takes on the toughest players in the league with an attitude. He's more respected than liked.

So consider the possibilities: One of the league's best defensive teams the last two seasons (the Bulls led in field-goal percentage against the last two years) gets the league's best team defender.

It apparently became clear to the Bulls they were not about to get a Dwyane Wade, LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. So they're putting together an impenetrable defensive wall with waves of players coming at teams.

With youngsters like Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha and Viktor Khryapa and Nocioni off the bench, the Bulls will be able to bring in a long, athletic second unit of players who could smother the opponent's reserves.

The starters of Wallace, Brown, Hinrich, Gordon and Deng look good, and suddenly Gordon isn't a defensive liability with Wallace behind him.

The prospects seem delicious, and it sets John Paxson on course for executive of the year and managing partner Jerry Reinsdorf again spending aggressively.

Wallace turns 32 on Sept. 10 and perhaps may not be worth an average $15 million deal in three years. But the Bulls clearly are taking a run now, and given their extensions coming up, the belief is the deal starts high, probably at close to $17 million, and declines through its life, probably down to about $12 million at the end.

Though this seemed the longest of shots, and not only because of Wallace's seeming roots in Detroit, where his Afro hairstyle and play makes him the fan favorite.

Pursued him aggressively

The Bulls had long considered taking a run at Wallace but were warned early by an associate of Wallace's that this would be a major financial commitment. And when Wallace initially went to the Pistons, he sought an annual $20 million salary.

That was beyond the Bulls' means, but it also sent a signal that perhaps the Pistons were no lock.

So the Bulls moved aggressively in going to Detroit to meet with Wallace. His wife is due to give birth to their third child soon so Wallace didn't want to travel.

He was engaging and even told Bulls coach Scott Skiles he desired a tougher brand of coaching. Skiles didn't seem to have a problem with that. The Bulls responded with an offer averaging close to $14 million per season. It seemed the limit.

So Detroit went in search of a sign-and-trade deal that could up the ante, knock out the rival Bulls and return a player to them. But Wallace was balking. He now wanted Chicago, but the $15 million figure was vital.

That's where Reinsdorf stepped in with agent Arn Tellem, who was McGrady's agent back in 2000, and they agreed. Nothing against the other big-man free agents, but it was worth the price to get a difference-maker.

Wallace didn't have a dominant playoffs—averaging 4.7 points, 10.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks amid a Pistons meltdown. But he became the fifth player in league history this season with more than 100 blocks and steals in six straight seasons, 22 times had more blocks than the opposing team, led the team in rebounding 59 times, hasn't missed a game in more than two years and was part of a team that again was called for the fewest fouls in the NBA.

"I appreciate everything Detroit did for me and my family," Wallace said Monday night. "They gave me the opportunity to make a name for myself. I had the opportunity to win a championship here. It's always going to be a special place."



http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060703smith,1,6956223.column?coll=cs-columnists

[JamStone]

Ben Wallace deserves to capitalize on his last five seasons with the Pistons and get as much money as he can. How can you blame a guy for that? $60 million is a lot of money. I don't hold any ill feelings towards Ben. I thank him for all that he did for the Pistons and the city of Detroit. In many ways, I'm glad it's another team that will be paying him that kind of money. I shudder to think of the idea of paying Ben Wallace around $18 million when he's 35-36, playing about 28 minute a game, scoring 4-5 pts a game, hauling down aboutu 8 rebounds a game, and maybe blocking 1 shot per game.

I wish him the best. I don't have a problem with Ben or him leaving. Sure, it will suck next season not having him, but he wasn't going to stick around forever.

Thanks, Ben, and good luck.

[byrontx]

So next year the Eastern conference finals will be Fro vs. Wade

[NBA Junkie]

Sucks for the Pistons.

Off the map they go.

Shoulda kept Darko! :rolleyes

IMO, this move doesn't necessarily guarantee that the Bulls are the best in the East. The team is still young and they still lack a true offensive go-to-guy in close ballgames. Whether Ben Gordon can be that man remains to be seen. He's more streaky than consistent and can disappear in long stretches in games without being a factor offensively.

It'll be interesting to see whether the Pistons try to replace Wallace via free agency/trade or whether McDyess moves to the starting line-up and either he or 'Sheed plays the 5.

[leemajors]

So next year the Eastern conference finals will be Fro vs. Wade

that's a bit hasty, the bulls still have to score points. they have a hard time doing that a lot of the time. they'll have to hold everyone to 82ppg.

[Quadzilla99]

Here's an interesting link to one of this morning's news stories about the signing from the Detroit Press-

Pistons wise not to match:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060704/SPORTS03/607040392/1048/SPORTS

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Here's an interesting link to one of this morning's news stories about the signing from the Detroit Press-

Pistons wise not to match:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060704/SPORTS03/607040392/1048/SPORTS

If Joe can get Joel Przybilla and get younger it's not the end all for the pistons.

[bdubya]

Nothing but love for Ben here. He left it all out there for six years for the Pistons, and has earned the payday. Hope he gets a big standing O when he comes back to the Palace.

Pistons are screwed for this year, though. They'll need a good draft in '07 to get back to title contention. This year they'll be lucky to get past the first round. :depressed

[SAGambler]

Of course, there are questions with Wallace.

He's the poorest free-throw shooter in the NBA and gets purposely fouled at times, the hack-a-Ben.

He has feuded with just about every coach in Detroit, and staged an open display against Flip Saunders in the playoffs this year.

He tends to be moody and pout at times, refusing to re-enter a game in March at the coach's request because he was angry at the team's effort and his role.

Despite his offensive limitations, he believes he should be an offensive option. And he was another guy talking about being disappointed and offended by an eight-figure contract offer.


And this is why Chicago will come to regret this contract.

Does it help the Bulls next year? Sure

But another year or two down the line, when they are still handing out the dough? I doubt it.

And it's going to take a lot more than Ben Wallace to put them in the finals, much less to win a trophy.

He may have deserved this "big contract" for play in the past. But no way would I offer him this kind of money on "future" predictions.

[ShoogarBear]

Sucks for Pistons fans, but weren't all you guys in here saying he was The No Question Defensive Player of the Year? And now he's overrated?

He's definitely not worth the money he's getting from Chi-town, but I think his loss is going to hit Detroit very, very hard. For one thing, the Pistons are only a mediocre rebounding team with him (16th, with a -0.34 per game differential), and they're going to be a terrible one without him, maybe unless they sign Pryz.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol..this is gonna hurt but we'll still make the playoffs..hes just one man..

[Pistons < Spurs]

Sucks for Pistons fans, but weren't all you guys in here saying he was The No Question Defensive Player of the Year? And now he's overrated?

He's definitely not worth the money he's getting from Chi-town, but I think his loss is going to hit Detroit very, very hard. For one thing, the Pistons are only a mediocre rebounding team with him (16th, with a -0.34 per game differential), and they're going to be a terrible one without him, maybe unless they sign Pryz.


I don't think there is a Piston fan alive that didn't want Ben back.

Some will say he is worth the 60 million, and others will say he isn't (me).

I will say Ben is always a contender for DPOY, but I along with many other Piston fans here actually said that BB deserved it more last year.

As for the overrated thing ... I think it's more about the size of the contract he got. If Chicago really think he's worth that money ... they definetly overrated him, that's for sure.

We will absolutely feel the loss of Ben next year. Especially now that we signed Nazr :madrun

But I really, really, deep down in my gut, feel that this can be a positive in regards to the focus and effort from the other remaining 4.

They got lazy and depended upon Ben way too much. They knew when they let their man get by that Ben would be there. They knew they didn't have to hustle for rebounds because Ben would get them.

Their reliance on Ben took all their individual games down a notch. There was little accountability. Now each individual blunder will be glaring. The personal accountability will make them all exert a higher degree of effort ... I hope.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol..did you see ben at the line? trust me they didn't rely on him..but i don't think they needed nazr they need more speed and an offencive forward if there gonna keep getting coached by flip

[mattyc]

Hilarious.

[Pistons < Spurs]

lol..did you see ben at the line? trust me they didn't rely on him..but i don't think they needed nazr they need more speed and an offencive forward if there gonna keep getting coached by flip


They absolutely relied upon him defensively. I don't recall a game that we lost because of his FT shooting ... but I know a few that we lost when the fella's expected Ben to show up ... and he didn't.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Sucks for Pistons fans, but weren't all you guys in here saying he was The No Question Defensive Player of the Year? And now he's overrated?

He's definitely not worth the money he's getting from Chi-town, but I think his loss is going to hit Detroit very, very hard. For one thing, the Pistons are only a mediocre rebounding team with him (16th, with a -0.34 per game differential), and they're going to be a terrible one without him, maybe unless they sign Pryz.

They went from an elite team to one that'll make the playoffs and need to get lucky/hot to win a title.

I am guessing they'll end up with the 5th seed in the ECF and lose in the Conference Semis.

Go Lions?

[DTP]

Ben has been released and traded alot in his career and Chicago this offseason really made him seem wanted. Not saying he didnt think Detroit didnt want him back but I think he felt so wanted in Chicago and he got a deal he couldn't turn his back on he just had to do it. Its gonna be wierd to see Big Ben in a Bulls uniform and not hearing the gong at the Palace :depressed but I wish him the best in chicago. I know probaly everyone thinks Detroit is just done right now but Nazr is a solid Center who can rebound, play some defense and score from time to time so i still think Detroit is at the top of the east. No question we're not on Miami's level but I think we'll survive next year and next year we have a couple of 1st round draftpick and stuff we can get some young guys in that are ready to play now and a free agent with our MLE and Detroit Pistons are back.

[NBA Junkie]

Have Piston fans renamed their former center Benedict Wallace now that he's a member of their hated rival?

[DTP]

They went from an elite team to one that'll make the playoffs and need to get lucky/hot to win a title.

I am guessing they'll end up with the 5th seed in the ECF and lose in the Conference Semis.

Go Lions?

I think they'll atleast end up with the 3rd seed I mean remember we are still in the Eastern Conference. The Bulls has added Ben Wallace and everything and good for them but I still dont see how this makes them so much better than Cleveland and Detroit. I still pick Detroit to win the Central because they still do have 4 great starters who have been together for a long time and have plenty of experience which is something the Bulls dont have alot of.

[TDMVPDPOY]

so they payin ben wallace that much to replace the guy who was workin as a bulls mascot?? :(:(

[DarkReign]

I hold absolutely no ill-will toward Ben.

How weird the NBA is...2-3 years ago it was Indiana and Detroit contending for dominance. Now? Miami, Chicago and fucking Cleveland.

The Pistons are cooked. No question. Still going to the playoffs. Still going to win the first round, but nothing beyond that.

This makes the Darko fiasco much worse than it already was. At some point your GM needs to be looked at. No way should JoeD have matched the Bulls offer. But no way should a GM ever assume a player in todays world is a lock. He did, and had no plan in case Ben left. Unless his plan was Nazr, if so, let me be the first to fire your ass.

All in all, it removes Detroit from title contention immediately. And wanes my interest in watching Flip Saunders-ball this November. No offense, but I like defense (pun intended). I cant stomach to think of Detroit running up and down the court letting people score at will, which is what is going to happen.

[Obstructed_View]

The Pistons are still title contenders without Wallace. They peaked at the wrong time, forgot what got them there, and couldn't correct it at the end. If they are playing well in the playoffs, there's no reason they can't win it all.

Someone is going to have to get 'sheed of the perimeter. Is there anyone in the organization with the balls to tell him? Larry Brown is probably available as a consultant.

[Sportcamper]

I wonder if it still fits... :smokin
http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/bd/b4/89_2.JPG

[Pistons < Spurs]

BEN, IN HIS OWN WORDS

*

Ben Wallace talked with WDIV-TV Local 4 sports anchor Fred McLeod on Tuesday. Some excerpts from the former Piston:

* "Everything happened so fast. You know, I think the Bulls are a great organization and a young and up-and-coming team. They made me an offer that I pretty much couldn't refuse."

* "In order for me to leave Detroit it had to be under these circumstances. Anything else, you know, I wouldn't even consider. But I feel like it was an offer I couldn't refuse. Everybody in this league would like to have an opportunity to do something great and have an opportunity to be successful in this league financially. And I thought this was my opportunity to take care of not only my family, but my family's family."

* "With me coming here, in the way they opened up and accepted me, it was a dream come true. It's tough to go into any situation feeling like you wasn't wanted, but coming here, I feel like the fans appreciated what I did and what I brought to the table. And they always inspired me to be a little bit better than the last year, and try to be a bit better the next year.

And you know, next year's going to be tough, especially having to come back here and play in front of these fans, it's just going to be tough."

* "I hate to leave, but it's going to be a situation where I got an opportunity to go out and do something different. And for the most part (the Piston players) have been supportive, they've all given me great advice throughout this whole thing. Some guys you play with because they're your teammates, and some guys you play with long enough, you become friends and you build that bond. I definitely think I'm leaving some lifetime friends here."

* "I didn't shed any tears, but it's tough. You work so hard all your life to feel like a part of something and I definitely thought that what we had here was something great, something special. And now to get up and leave, it's tough.

But I feel like I'm going to a great organization, a great city and I hope we become a team who comes out and plays hard every night, and if I thought it was anything less than that I'd still be in Detroit."

* "I think biggest problem is I had some coaches who didn't feel like they had to coach me, that I would police myself, and do whatever it takes to get the job done. But sometimes you're out there and you need someone to push you to try to take it to the next level and not let you settle."

* "I think Chauncey probably (politicked) the hardest (to keep me here). Me and Chauncey have been here for a minute, we had a brief stay in Orlando, and I think the level of respect we have for each other as players and as a person is great. He's just one of those guys that when I was having tough times here in Detroit, he'd always pick up the phone and call me and be like, 'I don't want nothing, I'm just calling to see what you're doing. Just making sure you got your head right and you're coming ready to play.' " He's always been one of those guys that you know everybody would love to have as a teammate."

* "I was never insulted (at the Pistons' offer). I'm from a small town in Alabama, we only got one stop light, and when I left Alabama, I pretty much left with the clothes on my back and my pride and who I was. And to say that I was insulted by someone offering me $46 million, that would be crazy. I didn't feel insulted. But looking at the league and the market and what players are paid, I thought I could get more, I thought I deserved a little bit more, but I was never insulted by the offer. $46 million, I mean, at the end of the day who can say they had an opportunity to turn down $46 million."

* "Every time I got an offer, me and my agent were talking and before we'd hang up I'd be like, 'Call Joe (Dumars), call the Pistons,' and see if they've got any flexibility or just see what's going on. Every time I got an offer, I definitely called Joe and talked to him and tried to see if they had any flexibility or see if they were willing to budge or move up a little bit. ... They held firm to their numbers."

* "I think my relationship with Flip (Saunders) is pretty good. At times we bumped heads when we're out there on the floor, but that's a given. When you're out there trying to reach greatness, and try to do something special, you're going to have conflicts. I don't think there's anything wrong with conflicts. I think the way you sit down and get them resolved are the key. My relationship with Flip had nothing to do with my situation of me leaving, because since I've been here, every other year or every two years, we've been having different coaches, so how can I get along with five or six different coaches and not get along with Flip?"

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Are the reports true that he refused to do a Sign and Trade?

[Lp26]

Why is he saying 46 mill?

I thought they offered him 48 starting and then upped it to 51.8 (or something to that effect).

I'm so confused by this entire situation

[himat]

The Pistons are still title contenders without Wallace. They peaked at the wrong time, forgot what got them there, and couldn't correct it at the end. If they are playing well in the playoffs, there's no reason they can't win it all.

Someone is going to have to get 'sheed of the perimeter. Is there anyone in the organization with the balls to tell him? Larry Brown is probably available as a consultant.

I think we are, but we need either Tay to take his game to a more agressive level or Sheed does. Pistons have a shot, but it would help if Joe can get someone else here by midseason.

[romsey31]

BEN, IN HIS OWN WORDS

*

Ben Wallace talked with WDIV-TV Local 4 sports anchor Fred McLeod on Tuesday. Some excerpts from the former Piston:

* "Everything happened so fast. You know, I think the Bulls are a great organization and a young and up-and-coming team. They made me an offer that I pretty much couldn't refuse."

* "In order for me to leave Detroit it had to be under these circumstances. Anything else, you know, I wouldn't even consider. But I feel like it was an offer I couldn't refuse. Everybody in this league would like to have an opportunity to do something great and have an opportunity to be successful in this league financially. And I thought this was my opportunity to take care of not only my family, but my family's family."

* "With me coming here, in the way they opened up and accepted me, it was a dream come true. It's tough to go into any situation feeling like you wasn't wanted, but coming here, I feel like the fans appreciated what I did and what I brought to the table. And they always inspired me to be a little bit better than the last year, and try to be a bit better the next year.

And you know, next year's going to be tough, especially having to come back here and play in front of these fans, it's just going to be tough."

* "I hate to leave, but it's going to be a situation where I got an opportunity to go out and do something different. And for the most part (the Piston players) have been supportive, they've all given me great advice throughout this whole thing. Some guys you play with because they're your teammates, and some guys you play with long enough, you become friends and you build that bond. I definitely think I'm leaving some lifetime friends here."

* "I didn't shed any tears, but it's tough. You work so hard all your life to feel like a part of something and I definitely thought that what we had here was something great, something special. And now to get up and leave, it's tough.

But I feel like I'm going to a great organization, a great city and I hope we become a team who comes out and plays hard every night, and if I thought it was anything less than that I'd still be in Detroit."

* "I think biggest problem is I had some coaches who didn't feel like they had to coach me, that I would police myself, and do whatever it takes to get the job done. But sometimes you're out there and you need someone to push you to try to take it to the next level and not let you settle."

* "I think Chauncey probably (politicked) the hardest (to keep me here). Me and Chauncey have been here for a minute, we had a brief stay in Orlando, and I think the level of respect we have for each other as players and as a person is great. He's just one of those guys that when I was having tough times here in Detroit, he'd always pick up the phone and call me and be like, 'I don't want nothing, I'm just calling to see what you're doing. Just making sure you got your head right and you're coming ready to play.' " He's always been one of those guys that you know everybody would love to have as a teammate."

* "I was never insulted (at the Pistons' offer). I'm from a small town in Alabama, we only got one stop light, and when I left Alabama, I pretty much left with the clothes on my back and my pride and who I was. And to say that I was insulted by someone offering me $46 million, that would be crazy. I didn't feel insulted. But looking at the league and the market and what players are paid, I thought I could get more, I thought I deserved a little bit more, but I was never insulted by the offer. $46 million, I mean, at the end of the day who can say they had an opportunity to turn down $46 million."

* "Every time I got an offer, me and my agent were talking and before we'd hang up I'd be like, 'Call Joe (Dumars), call the Pistons,' and see if they've got any flexibility or just see what's going on. Every time I got an offer, I definitely called Joe and talked to him and tried to see if they had any flexibility or see if they were willing to budge or move up a little bit. ... They held firm to their numbers."

* "I think my relationship with Flip (Saunders) is pretty good. At times we bumped heads when we're out there on the floor, but that's a given. When you're out there trying to reach greatness, and try to do something special, you're going to have conflicts. I don't think there's anything wrong with conflicts. I think the way you sit down and get them resolved are the key. My relationship with Flip had nothing to do with my situation of me leaving, because since I've been here, every other year or every two years, we've been having different coaches, so how can I get along with five or six different coaches and not get along with Flip?"

atleast ben wallace has common sense, that comment made me respect him 1000x more.

[Pistons < Spurs]

'Business decision' doesn't diminish Wallace's six great years


The initial response to Ben Wallace's exit from Detroit was probably good riddance.

After all, Wallace took the bigmoney and ran, breaking up the best group since The Beatles.

In reality, Pistons fans should simply wish Big Ben good luck.

It would be silly to be upset at Wallace for taking a four-year, $60 million deal from the Bulls. The offer made by the Pistons -- a reported $49.6 million for four years -- was respectable, but not enough.

This was all about business, not basketball.

"I appreciate everything that happened in Detroit," Wallace said. "Fans supported me 100 percent. They adopted me as one of their sons. I'm thankful for that."

Without question, Wallace was the cornerstone of a beautiful six-year run that helped turn the Pistons from wanna-bes into champions.

The last five years, in fact -- five straight 50-plus victory seasons and four straight trips to the Eastern Conference finals -- elevated the Pistons to yet another level -- the elite.

When we look back at what we've watched, it will give us a warm feeling inside and make us relish the memories Ben and Co. delivered.

Best of all, Wallace embraced and represented this city well. He was what we're all about -- working hard and getting the job done even when the odds are stacked against us.

Seeds of a championship

Let's face it, the only thing more shocking than the Bulls breaking their bank for Wallace is what Big Ben accomplished during his stay in Motown.

Nobody, except maybe team president Joe Dumars, could have known what Wallace would do when he came here along with Chucky Atkins in the sign-and-trade deal with the Orlando Magic for Grant Hill.

At that point, Wallace, an undrafted player out of Virginia Union, hadn't played that much, first with Washington and then the Magic.

Admit it, you probably said, "Ben who?" when the Pistons made the move.

Well, Wallace turned out to be the first building block this franchise needed.

If you were going to win, you had to be able to play defense. No players gave more of themselves on defense than Wallace. That's why he's been named defensive player of the year four of the last five seasons.

We'll always have memories

Sure, it won't be the same around The Palace. There won't be Big Ben's bell. The Afro wigs will be missing. We won't hear PA announcer John Mason say "BBBBBBen Wallace" anymore.

Still, it's better to have had something so special and lose it than to never have had it at all.

"It's nothing personal," Wallace said. "It's a business decision."

That's why you have to pull for Wallace to succeed in Chicago -- except, of course, when the Bulls play the Pistons.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060705/SPORTS08/607050348/1127

[Pistons < Spurs]

Plain and simple, Wallace took the higher-paying job


By A. Sherrod Blakely

AUBURN HILLS -- For six years, we watched Ben Wallace do some pretty amazing things, the kind of things that made us feel as though he was different from everyone else.

As we found out Monday night, he's really not that different than the guy making minimum wage who wants a job with better pay, or the corporate executive who takes a similar position with a higher-paying rival company.

He took the money, plain and simple.

That Wallace agreed to a four-year contract for about $60 million with the Chicago Bulls -- at least $10 million more than the Detroit Pistons were willing to offer -- should not be a shock.

It wouldn't be that big a surprise if we were talking about someone other than Wallace, who never seemed the least bit bothered by the fact that he was consistently one of the NBA's top players even though his pay didn't reflect it.

He had no problem with other players like ex-teammate Mehmet Okur (six years, $50 million), Carlos Boozer (six years, $68 million) or even Erick Dampier (seven years, $73 million) landing huge contracts though they had accomplished little in the NBA compared to Wallace.

Wallace's time would come, he thought -- there would be an offer that would take all that he had done into account, as well as recognize what he still had to offer.

The Pistons offered him a four-year deal worth about $48 million that would have made him the highest-paid player in franchise history, and would have cemented his legacy as one of the greatest Pistons ever.

Wallace had to weigh that against a bigger contract offer from the rival Bulls, who are led by defensive-minded coach Scott Skiles and feature a group of young, talented players who were in dire need of someone with Wallace's leadership skills.

All those factors were in play, but the only one that really mattered in the end was the money. Of course, that's an all-too common path taken by most NBA players

Tim Thomas, who like Wallace is represented by Arn Tellem, had said for weeks he wanted to re-sign with the Phoenix Suns. However, he wound up committing to the Los Angeles Clippers because the Clippers offered more money.

We see the same thing happen with engineers, doctors, lawyers -- and yes, journalists -- who bolt for whoever is writing the biggest check.

But with Ben, there was always a sense that, well, he was different than the rest of us.

His small-town, blue-collar upbringing made him connect instantly with the Pistons fan base. He didn't have a flashy jump shot, or great size, or any of the other tangibles that most great NBA players have.

He outworked guys, every game.

Because of that, and of course, the `fro, Wallace became a player that fans across the country embraced and players respected.

But as his status in the NBA began to grow, so did his ego.

He wanted the Pistons to play a certain way, to practice a certain way. When that didn't happen, he complained.

When he didn't feel like he was involved enough in the offense, he grumbled about that.

And when the Pistons struggled in the postseason, rather than acknowledge that his horrid free-throw shooting and inconsistent help-side defense was among the team's problems, he instead shifted the blame to head coach Flip Saunders.

To watch what Wallace was doing, to see it unfold like that, well, it was pretty amazing.

But it was also a reminder that, even with all the incredible things Wallace does on the court, in the end, he's no different than you and I.

When all was said and done, Wallace handled his free agency no different than a low-wage worker looking for a better life, or a corporate big wig wanting to get a little bigger.

He took the money, plain and simple.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1152069023318760.xml&coll=1

[Pistons < Spurs]

Ben Wallace audio notes: I'm leaving for multiple reasons
Ben Wallace tells WDFN that there are multiple reasons he's heading to Chicago, but he wants to let his emotions calm before he reveals his reasoning. Ben says it wasn't about money, his teammates or his relationship with Flip Saunders, but he does mention that his role in the offense really bothered him.

Notes are paraphrased.

Q: Everyone knows what you meant to this team. They built the whole "going to work" image around you. Was it just the money? Is that the reason you're going to be a Bull on July 12th?

A: It was a couple different things that I won't go into details about. It was never really about the money, it was just a couple things that happened that really helped me make this decision.

Q: Does it have anything to do with you being upset, or even insulted as it was written, with the Pistons first offer?

A: Anybody in there right mind wouldn't be upset about that kind of offer. Regardless of the circumstances, it was a $40+ million dollar offer, and you can't be upset about that.

Q: If the Pistons offer was closer to the Bulls would you have stayed or was it other things?

A: Like I said, it was a number of things that helped me make this decision. I feel like I did everything I could possibly do, on and off the court, to remain a Detroit Piston. Things just didn't work out.

Q: Were you happy here this season?

A: Of course. It's tough to not be happy when you are setting franchise record for wins.

Q: Talk about your thoughts on Flip Saunders. A lot of people think the Orlando situation had a lot to do with your decision. Did you respect Flip as a coach?

A: Yeah, I respect Flip as a coach. I think he's one of the better coaches in the league and I had a lot of fun playing with him. People say Flip and I didn't get along, but I feel like our relationship is great. Throughout the course of a season you'll always have a little controversy, a few disagreements, you can't always agree about everything that happens on the basketball floor. The way those things are dealt with really reveal the player / coach relationship you ultimately have.

Q: In hindsight of your playoff struggles, was it a mistake not having Larry Brown stick around as coach of the Pistons?

A: No, I can't say that. We won 64 games this year with Flip. The bottom line was that teams were a lot more prepared for us this season. They made us work hard for everything and wouldn't give up anything. The way Miami played, it was apparent they were preparing for us from game one.

Q: Your offensive production went down this season and I know you like to be more involved on that end of the court. Does that anything to do with your decision to leave?

A: Yeah, a little bit, but it was not the key. My bottom line is to go out and play basketball. With five guys on the court, you need to get five guys involved. It's not fair to the team, the fans and the organization to play four on five on the offensive end of the court. Five guys need to be involved.

At times it really frustrated me because teams would take advantage of that of the fact that I wasn't involved in the offense. Guys would tell me, "I won't sit and guard you, you're not getting the ball. I'm going to go over here or there and try to bog your offense down." That was always frustrating.

Q: Did you express that frustration to Flip, Joe or any other members of the coaching staff?

A: Oh yeah, I probably expressed it more than they wanted to hear.

Q: Well that's part of your job as a leader is to voice your opinion.

A: Yeah, I think earned the right to voice my opinion on ways to help the team. For the most part people respected what I had to say, but sometimes people would overanalyze what I had to say. People knew I was going to be a free agent, so they were trying to read into everything I was saying.

Q: I assume you're cool with all your teammates?

A: It's the best group of guys I've ever played with. These last four years everyone that has come through this system have done what we wanted them to do. The relationship I have with these guys goes far beyond basketball. When we all hang it up someday, I think we'll still all be friends.

Q: So you're cool with your teammates, you say you're cool with Flip and you're saying it wasn't about the money. People are going to want to know, why did Ben leave?

A: I expect those questions, and in time they will get their answers. Right now I want to let the emotions get out of the equation. Right now I'm focusing on moving to a great organization, a great city and a great group of young guys who are going to come out and fight for every inch of the floor. I think I made a decision that's going to help me out and my family out.

Q: Did you feel that the Pistons disrespected you at all this season?

A: No, I enjoyed my time here. When I came to this city nobody knew who Ben Wallace was. The Pistons gave me a chance to show what kind of player I was and what kind of player I could become. Now that I'm leaving, everyone in the NBA knows who Ben Wallace is, and I'm very thankful to the Pistons for that opportunity.

Q: Did you just need a change of scene?

A: No, not really. My wife loves it here and I have a few family members living in the area. Sometimes change is just good.

Q: What do you tell the kids, the young fans?

A: I still love them and I appreciate what they mean to me. Without the fans coming out every night and supporting me, I would be nothing. They made Ben Wallace a household name.

Q: Is it strange to you that you were offered more money than Grant Hill when he left?

A: Yeah, that's strange.

Q: What's your fondest memory in your six years here?

A: Just coming here and not knowing what to expect. You worry about the fans embracing you because they just lost a guy like Grant Hill, and now, after being here for six years, it's been amazing to be embraced and welcomed into peoples' lives. That goes above and beyond anything in basketball and I will never be able to put a price on that. It's impossible to describe what it feels like to not become identifiable as part of the Detroit Pistons, but identifiable as part of the city of Detroit and what it stands for.

Q: How strange will it be to be booed?

A: I know it will happen and expect it to happen. In fact, I don't expect anything less from these fans. I know how these fans love the team and how hard they come out and cheer for this team. When I'm gone they're still going to come out and support this team because that's what they do. They love this team regardless of who they are playing and regardless of the situation.

Q: Are the Pistons still a favorite in the Central, or are you picking the Bulls now?

A: (laughing) I don't know, we'll see how it plays out.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

In the words of Michael Rosenberg....

"As for Ben, I don't think he has any idea how bad he looks. In the past few months, he has a) refused to re-enter a tight game, b) complained publicly (and incorrectly) about his coach in the middle of the playoffs, c) called a $48-million offer unfair and d) left a 64-win team for a 41-win team because his ego got the best of him."

I'm gratefull to Big Ben for what he did for the Pistons, he meant so much to the city of Detroit. I still feel like he's a traitor and a sellout, though. I'm sick of him, and I hope he blows as a Bull.

[REDLION#22]

Nice post Ben got full of himself on a team that has no ego's Ben sure has one now.

a team with no ego??????????????


i have to words for you:

CHAUNCEY-BILLUPS




A.K.A.MR.LUCKY SHOT.

[REDLION#22]

I think we are, but we need either Tay to take his game to a more agressive level or Sheed does. Pistons have a shot.

:lmao


If the pistons will contend next year,then you can call the heat a dynasty already :rollin :lol

[ABDENOUR POWER]

a team with no ego??????????????
i have to words for you:

CHAUNCEY-BILLUPS

A.K.A.MR.LUCKY SHOT.\

Oh, you mean the guy who transformed his game from being purely a scorer to someone who unselfishly sets up the offense and gets everybody involved? Yep, sounds like he has an enormous ego all right. :rolleyes

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:lmao


If the pistons will contend next year,then you can call the heat a dynasty already :rollin :lol

Stop polluting every fucking thread. At least have a goddamn take...