Does Ben Waallace get his # retired by the Pistons?

[Pistons < Spurs]

Does his jersey reside in the rafters? It wouldn't happen if ever till what? 2015?

He was the face of the orginization for 5 years. He came to us from Orlando as a complete unknown. No one expected anything from him when we obtained him from Orlando in the S&T for Grant Hill.

While we thought we were going to be at the bottom of the barrel, Ben's will, effort and hustle brought us to the top of the Eastern Conference.


He was only with us for 6 years, but can anyone doubt his contribution?

Some highlights while a Piston:

Accolades

* NBA Champion: 2004
* 4-time NBA All-Star: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
* 4-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006
* 5-time All-NBA Defensive First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
* 5-time All-NBA:

* Second Team: 2003, 2004, 2006
* Third Team: 2002, 2005

* 2-time NBA regular-season leader, rebounds per game: 2002 (13.0), 2003 (15.4)
* NBA regular-season leader, blocks per game: 2002 (3.5)
* 2-time NBA regular-season leader, total rebounds: 2001 (1052), 2003 (1026)
* NBA regular-season leader, total defensive rebounds: 2001 (749)
* 2-time NBA regular-season leader, total offensive rebounds: 2003 (293), 2006 (301)
* NBA regular-season leader, total blocks: 2002 (278)

NBA records/achievements

* The only player in NBA history to record 1,000 rebounds, 100 blocks, and 100 steals in 4 consecutive seasons (2001-04).
* One of only three players in NBA history to record 150 blocks and 100 steals in 6 consecutive seasons (2001-06) (along with Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson).
* One of only four players in NBA history to lead the NBA in rebounding and blocking averages in the same season (along with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, and Hakeem Olajuwon).
* The only undrafted player in NBA history to be voted a starter for the NBA All-Star Game.
* One of only two players in NBA history to receive NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award 4 times (along with Dikembe Mutumbo--although, another plus for Wallace is that he hit the mark in 5 years, while Mutumbo needed 6 years to be awarded 4.)

Detroit Pistons franchise records (15)

* Most blocked shots, all-time: 1,297 (2000–2006)
* Most blocked shots in
o one game: 10 (November 10, 2002 vs. Miami Heat)
o one half: 7 (February 1, 2003 vs. New Jersey Nets)
o one quarter: 5 (March 10, 2002 vs. Indiana Pacers)
o one season: 278 (2001-02)
* Highest blocks-per-game average, one season: 3.48 (2001-02)
* Most defensive rebounds, one quarter: 10 (November 18, 2002 vs. New York Knicks).
* Most rebounds, one half, playoffs: 17 (Game 4, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round)
* Most rebounds, one quarter, playoffs: 13 (Game 4, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round)
* Most offensive rebounds, one game, playoffs: 11 (Game 3, 2004 Eastern Conference Semifinals)
* Most offensive rebounds, one half, playoffs: 7 (Game 3, 2004 Eastern Conference Semifinals)
* Most defensive rebounds, one game, playoffs: 17 (Game 1, 2003 Eastern Conference Finals)
* Most defensive rebounds, one half, playoffs: 12 (Game 1, 2003 Eastern Conference Finals)
* Most defensive rebounds, one quarter, playoffs: 9 (Game 1, 2003 Eastern Conference Finals)
* Most steals, one game, playoffs: 7 (Game 4, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round)

Other

* Member of the 2002 USA Basketball World Championship team.





Year..Age..Team..G ..PPG. .FGP..FTP..3PP..RPG..APG

2000-01 26 DET 80 6.4 .490 .336 .250 13.2 1.5
2001-02 27 DET 80 7.6 .531 .423 .000 13.0 1.4
2002-03 28 DET 73 6.9 .481 .450 .167 15.4 1.6
2003-04 29 DET 81 9.5 .421 .490 .125 12.6 1.7
2004-05 30 DET 74 9.7 .453 .428 .111 12.2 1.7
2005-06 31 DET 82 7.3 .510 .416 .000 11.3 1.9


With the Pistons, he averaged:

7.9pts 12.9rbs 2.76blks 1.56stls 1.63asts 48.2FG% 42.3FT%



I don't think anyone outside of the region will ever understand how much Ben captured the imagination of the Detroit fanbase. He fully represented the people of Detroit. On some level we were the Detroit Wallaces' and not the Detroit Pistons.

His tenure with us was not the longest, but his impact cannot be measured.

I don't know what standards have previously been set by other players or teams, but I'm sure lesser players of a smaller impact have seen their numbers retired.

His offensive numbers, as always, will skew some peoples opinion of him.

IMO, the next few years will greatly impact the legacy he leaves in the greater Detroit area.

If the Pistons are able to uphold their status as one of the better teams in the league, Bens reputation will take a tumble. Out of sight, out of mind. If we can fill his roster spot with a lesser player (Nazr?), and yet still compete, it looks poorly on Bens contribution.

Personaly, I still see us competing. I see us fighting (admittedly a little homerish and naive) for the ECF if not the Finals for the duration of Bens contract with Chicago.

If that happens, the city of Detroit could quite possibly forget his importance to our franchise.

I say we do retire his #. I think his contribution is worthy of placing him among the greats of the franchise.


Taking a forward thinking stance, this question leads me to wonder if Ben truly will wever be a Hall of Famer. But that's left for a different post.

[REDLION#22]

he is undeserving of all those awards...artest should have won DPOY in 05 and 06 if it wasnt for the brawl big baby created...

[RON ARTEST]

he is undeserving of all those awards...artest should have won DPOY in 05 and 06 if it wasnt for the brawl big baby created...
i agree that ben didnt deserve it this year but artest didnt either becuase he didnt play that many games. artest will get it next year though becuase he was still on the defensive first team this year so can you imagine when hes in game shape and gets a training camp with the team? damn i cant wait.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If #15 hangs in the rafters, so should #3...

[REDLION#22]

Me neither,outside of the heat(and lebron and nash)artest is one of my favorite players(i knda feel identified to him).i like hat he is proud of his defensive efforts,and im sure the kings will have a great season next year.

[JMarkJohns]

Retired Jersey: Yes
HOF: two more very good years.

You've basically taken everything that can and needs to be said. I agree 100% about his impact. One of the best in reguards to importance to a team.

[REDLION#22]

nah,no one from detriot should ever enter in the HOF...(yes i know dumars entered)....but he is wwwaaaaaaaaay overrated.

[Burn531]

nah,no one from detriot should ever enter in the HOF...(yes i know dumars entered)....but he is wwwaaaaaaaaay overrated.

Finals MVP

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

nah,no one from detriot should ever enter in the HOF...(yes i know dumars entered)....but he is wwwaaaaaaaaay overrated.


You should stop talking about things that you know absolutely nothing of...

[TDMVPDPOY]

i agree that ben didnt deserve it this year but artest didnt either becuase he didnt play that many games. artest will get it next year though becuase he was still on the defensive first team this year so can you imagine when hes in game shape and gets a training camp with the team? damn i cant wait.

imo that was the year tim duncan shouldve won it hands down, when both of these clowns were out and about. Duncan also had a good shot at mvp also, but he missed more than 10 games, would not get you any award like dpoy or mvp :(:(. still bitter about that season.

[TDMVPDPOY]

so when u changing your sig pistons<spurs??

more like spurs >>>>>>>>leap year>>>>>>>pistons.

[DTP]

If he would of retired a Piston I think it would of been a lock for him to get his #3 retired but now im not sure. He probaly will because he has done so much for our franchise and I think he deserves it. I just wish he wasnt a Bull.

[Darrin]

nah,no one from detriot should ever enter in the HOF...(yes i know dumars entered)....but he is wwwaaaaaaaaay overrated.

Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown, Dave DeBusschere, George Yardley, Dave Bing, Bob Lanier, Joe Dumars, Chuck Daly...

[G-Money]

I think his number should only be retired in Detroit and I think it will.

[G-Money]

nah,no one from detriot should ever enter in the HOF...(yes i know dumars entered)....but he is wwwaaaaaaaaay overrated.


If thats the case then I hope Wade never enters either. He was undeserving to be called NBA champion or finals MVP. It was clear as day the refs were helping him win in the finals. I mean he had the same amount of FT's as the who Mav team. And everytime the Mavs tried playing Defense it was a foul but the Heat could hit the Mavs with a bat and it would still be called a clean defensive play. Not to mention Wade using off arms all the time.

None of the Heat players should ever go in the HOF and that includes Shaq too!

Pistons>Heat

[Burn531]

If thats the case then I hope Wade never enters either. He was undeserving to be called NBA champion or finals MVP. It was clear as day the refs were helping him win in the finals. I mean he had the same amount of FT's as the who Mav team. And everytime the Mavs tried playing Defense it was a foul but the Heat could hit the Mavs with a bat and it would still be called a clean defensive play. Not to mention Wade using off arms all the time.

None of the Heat players should ever go in the HOF and that includes Shaq too!

Pistons>Heat


:lol

Your just a little angry.

There's no point in arguing with him anyway. He brings nothing to a debate or conversation.

[ca®lo]

not to mention that in 06.. bruce shouldve won DPOY

[Darrin]

The way to get to the Pistons' rafters is consistent greatness:


4 - Joe Dumars - 1,018 games (14 seasons)
11 - Isiah Thomas - 979 games (13 seasons)
40 - Bill Laimbeer - 937 games (13 seasons)
15 - Vinnie Johnson - 798 games (10 seasons)
2 - Chuck Daly - 738 games (9 seasons)
16 - Bob Lanier - 681 games (9 seasons)
21 - Dave Bing - 675 games (9 seasons)
----

Dennis Rodman:
- 2-Time Defensive Player of the Year
- 549 games (seven seasons) with Detroit.
- 6,299 rebounds (two rebounding titles).
- 401 steals.
- 399 blocks.
- 2 NBA Championships.
- 5 Conference Finals Appearances.
- 3 Conference Championships

Ben Wallace:
- 4-Time Defensive Player of the Year.
- 470 games (6 seasons) with Detroit.
- 6,048 rebounds.
- 1,297 blocks.
- 744 steals.
- 1 NBA Championship.
- 4 Conference Finals Appearances.
- 2 Conference Championships.

Keep in mind, Rodman came off the bench for his first 3 1/2 seasons. Now, the divorce with Rodman was ugly, and the Pistons waited 11 seasons to allow another player to win number 10. But if you look at the Pistons' current roster, you'll see that Lindsey Hunter has been wearing number 10 for 3 seasons now.

I'd love to see Ben Wallace's number retired, and he was on his way. But if history is any teacher, the Pistons would have to break their own trends to retire his number. That's probably one of the saddest things stemming from this signing.


BRING BEN BACK IN 2010!!!!

[johngateswhiteley]

...i'd say no he should not get his number retired since he will end up playing half his career elsewhere. however, anyone who thinks he won't be in the HOF is crazy....does he deserve to be, well thats another question.

[whottt]

I say no way...he ditched you guys for the Bulls...and it wasn't like he spent most of his career there.

If a dude bails for money like that, when the team was making him a fair offer...and he hasn't spent most of his career with the franchise...you can't retire it...he does not deserve to hang up there with Isiah, Joe Dumars, and Bill Lambeir.

He's not as much of a Piston as those guys were.

I mean...exactly where did he show you guys how much being a Piston meant to him?

Ya'll didn't give up on him, he gave up on ya'll.

So no...

The jersey of Ben Wallace should not hang in Detroit. Yes it hurts player and fans...but Ben should have thought of that before he left for $$$$$.

You dishonor the guys that did stick with you by retiring his jersey.

[jochhejaam]

I say no way...he ditched you guys for the Bulls...and it wasn't like he spent most of his career there.

If a dude bails for money like that, when the team was making him a fair offer...and he hasn't spent most of his career with the franchise...you can't retire it...he does not deserve to hang up there with Isiah, Joe Dumars, and Bill Lambeir.

He's not as much of a Piston as those guys were.

I mean...exactly where did he show you guys how much being a Piston meant to him?

Ya'll didn't give up on him, he gave up on ya'll.

So no...

The jersey of Ben Wallace should not hang in Detroit. Yes it hurts player and fans...but Ben should have thought of that before he left for $$$$$.

You dishonor the guys that did stick with you by retiring his jersey.
Based on stats alone I'd say yes but you've presented a good arguement for not retiring it.
Tough one. Wait until the dust settles and hope for some more good runs at the title in the near future. Future successes will take the edge off of the hard feelings many have against Ben.

Maybe we can hang it in some obscure place in the Palace...in the mens restroom would be a good start...out of firing range of course.

[SA Gunslinger]

I say yes because I want to hear Mason do the introduction for Ben one more time. I always dug the way he yelled Virginia Union University.

[Pistons < Spurs]

so when u changing your sig pistons<spurs??


LOL I got rid of it now. I didn't even think about it till you mentioned it!

[MrChug]

I vote yes.

[Bob Lanier]

Yes, but they should have retired Worm's number many years ago, as well. Davidson and Tom Wilson hold very long grudges.

[DarkReign]

No.

[Vizzini]

I don't know about this one. Take a look at Grant Hill's stat when he was a Piston for six seasons: 21.5 pts 7.76 reb 6.2 ast per game. He shot an average of .475% from the field. He played in an average of 72.5 games a year, he was the 1995 Co-Rookie of the Year, a 5-time All-Star, with 1 All-NBA First Team and 4 All-NBA Second Team honors as well. Does he deserve to have his # retired by the Pistons? I know Ben's stats won't compare to Hill's so I guess you have to look at the intangibles he brought to the team. Ben's first year in Detroit they had a record of 32-50. They flipped that around next year, and the team took off towards their 4 straight ECF appearences. He helped bring a title to Detroit and helped changed the attitude and expectations of an entire franchise. He did not do it alone, and had a tremendous cast around him, while Grant Hill was the main ( and I believe the only) reason the Pistons were in the playoffs when he was playing in Detroit. If you go on winning and the attitude that Ben brought, then yes, you reitre his #, but if you go off of stats and not retiring Hill's #, then no.

[Darrin]

I say no way...he ditched you guys for the Bulls...and it wasn't like he spent most of his career there.

If a dude bails for money like that, when the team was making him a fair offer...and he hasn't spent most of his career with the franchise...you can't retire it...he does not deserve to hang up there with Isiah, Joe Dumars, and Bill Lambeir.

He's not as much of a Piston as those guys were.

I mean...exactly where did he show you guys how much being a Piston meant to him?

Ya'll didn't give up on him, he gave up on ya'll.

So no...

The jersey of Ben Wallace should not hang in Detroit. Yes it hurts player and fans...but Ben should have thought of that before he left for $$$$$.

You dishonor the guys that did stick with you by retiring his jersey.

Well, you have the grant the premise that the Pistons offer was fair. Here's a guy who's never made more than 7.1 million a season and his impact has been that of a player making twice that amount of money.

After 29 games in a Pistons uniform, Rasheed Wallace received a 5-year, 63 million dollar contract from Detroit. The Pistons also signed Antonio McDyess to 4-year, 22 million dollar deal, with an option for a fifth. How is this relevant?

Antonio McDyess - Born September 7, 1974.
Ben Wallace - Born September 10, 1974.
Rasheed Wallace - Born September 17, 1974.

As freakish as that may be, look down in Miami. Dwyane Wade, coming off a season where he's Finals MVP and brings Miami a Championship, perhaps his greatest negotiating position for a new contract, gets an extension.

Ben Wallace has been eligible for a new contract since February, 2003. He had an opt-out clause after the 2002-03 season, and didn't exercise it. In that time, Rip Hamilton (6-years, 63-million), Rasheed Wallace (5-years, 64 million), and Tayshaun Prince (5-years, 45-million) have all gotten paid.

The Pistons made a respectable offer for a 32-year-old free agent, who saw his shots per game cut to the lowest of his Pistons career last season. 4-years, 49 million. That's okay. What's not okay is that Adonal Foyle received a similar deal two summers ago.

What's not okay is the Pistons have seen a 20% jump in attendance in the six year with Ben Wallace versus the six years with Grant Hill, and that's after his first season, when the Pistons averaged 14,000 patrons for a 22,000-seat facility.

This wasn't about the money by itself. It was about security - security in knowing that the team isn't going to try and trade him in 2 years. Security that they will be playing a brand of basketball that will allow them to compete for Championships with Ben Wallace - from being defensive-minded to allowing Wallace to shoot at least 8 field goal attempts a game.

What they've done is bad mangement. If they wanted to get rid of Wallace, do it while they could get something for him. Don't wait until the bank and the talent pool is empty. This is the Pistons' fault, not Ben Wallace's.

[ShoogarBear]

Did he hit any playoff three-pointers?

[awmyplace]

Did he hit any playoff three-pointers?

No

[Darrin]

Did he hit any playoff three-pointers?

Yes. 4-28 in his Pistons' career. The only one I remember came against the Wizards in 2005. With the shot-clock winding down and 37 seconds left on the game clock, he threw up a 3-pointer that brought the crowd to its feet and laughs from teammates. Here's a picture right after he did it:

http://www.ajansspor.com/resim/BenWallace_McDyess_sev01.jpg

Edit: Oops. I skipped over "playoff"

[Pistons < Spurs]

Yes. 4-28 in his Pistons' career. The only one I remember came against the Wizards in 2005. With the shot-clock winding down and 37 seconds left on the game clock, he threw up a 3-pointer that brought the crowd to its feet and laughs from teammates. Here's a picture right after he did it:

http://www.ajansspor.com/resim/BenWallace_McDyess_sev01.jpg

Edit: Oops. I skipped over "playoff"


LOL I remember that shot!

[Bob Lanier]

Kori says no NBA video, so here's the next best thing: screen caps.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7743/benthree3od.jpg

http://www.algertheater.org/IMAGES/blaha.jpg

Chauncey... outside for Ben... lets it go... GOT IT! Ben with a triple off glass! There was only a second on the shot clock!

:depressed

[Lp26]

Well, you have the grant the premise that the Pistons offer was fair. Here's a guy who's never made more than 7.1 million a season and his impact has been that of a player making twice that amount of money.

After 29 games in a Pistons uniform, Rasheed Wallace received a 5-year, 63 million dollar contract from Detroit. The Pistons also signed Antonio McDyess to 4-year, 22 million dollar deal, with an option for a fifth. How is this relevant?

Antonio McDyess - Born September 7, 1974.
Ben Wallace - Born September 10, 1974.
Rasheed Wallace - Born September 17, 1974.

As freakish as that may be, look down in Miami. Dwyane Wade, coming off a season where he's Finals MVP and brings Miami a Championship, perhaps his greatest negotiating position for a new contract, gets an extension.

Ben Wallace has been eligible for a new contract since February, 2003. He had an opt-out clause after the 2002-03 season, and didn't exercise it. In that time, Rip Hamilton (6-years, 63-million), Rasheed Wallace (5-years, 64 million), and Tayshaun Prince (5-years, 45-million) have all gotten paid.

The Pistons made a respectable offer for a 32-year-old free agent, who saw his shots per game cut to the lowest of his Pistons career last season. 4-years, 49 million. That's okay. What's not okay is that Adonal Foyle received a similar deal two summers ago.

What's not okay is the Pistons have seen a 20% jump in attendance in the six year with Ben Wallace versus the six years with Grant Hill, and that's after his first season, when the Pistons averaged 14,000 patrons for a 22,000-seat facility.

This wasn't about the money by itself. It was about security - security in knowing that the team isn't going to try and trade him in 2 years. Security that they will be playing a brand of basketball that will allow them to compete for Championships with Ben Wallace - from being defensive-minded to allowing Wallace to shoot at least 8 field goal attempts a game.

What they've done is bad mangement. If they wanted to get rid of Wallace, do it while they could get something for him. Don't wait until the bank and the talent pool is empty. This is the Pistons' fault, not Ben Wallace's.

This is a really good post

[Please_dont_ban_me]

If he played a few more years there? Sure.

As of now, no. Winning a few DPOY awards doesn't warrant that.

[ShoogarBear]

"A few" DPOYs? As in, four?

That plus a title and two trips to the Finals? This is a no-brainer.

Of course, I bet that will all change if Ben instigates another fight in Detroit. :)

[Obstructed_View]

That would be almost as pathetic as the Heat retiring the number of an opposing player. Ben deserves a big thank you from the city of detroit and a rousing ovation the first time he plays in Detroit, and that's about it.

[whottt]

Did he hit any playoff three-pointers?


Funny guy...careful though...you would not believe some of the sad comparisons that question can lead too.

[whottt]

Sorry but I still have to veto Ben's jersey hanging in Detroit...Pistons' fans don't know what's good for them right now because the wounds are still fresh.

SO what if Ben Wallace was underpaid earlier? It's not like Detroit screwed him on his last contract...and he went into obvious decline last year. He also turned cancerous at the end of the season...Detroit offered him a nice contract...and if he'd been about Detroit, and winning, he wouldn't have left.

But he did leave. Plain and simple, he left.

HOF'er? Without a doubt...

But deserving of hanging up there with Isiah, Dumars and Lambeir?

No, he isn't...he wasn't as much of a Piston as those guys were...and he proved it. The standard has been set and Ben doesn't measure up.



Additionally...Rasheed Wallace was just as essential to your title. Trust me...we played you guys in the final...Sheed was the scary one. IT wasn't like Wallace just stepped foot on the court all by his lonesome and turned you guys into title contenders.

It's a tough question and it won't be a travesty if you guys retire it...but the fact of the matter is, Wallace chose the $$$$ over being immortalized in MoTown. His choice. Make him live with it.

[ShoogarBear]

I knew you'd sniff that one out.

[Darrin]

I knew you'd sniff that one out.

3/20/01 vs. Utah
3/14/03 vs. WAS
12/23/03 vs. MIL
4/6/05 vs. WAS

Now, they are all "sniffed" out.

[ShoogarBear]

Damn, the Wiz's perimeter defense sucks!

[Please_dont_ban_me]

"A few" DPOYs? As in, four?

That plus a title and two trips to the Finals? This is a no-brainer.

Of course, I bet that will all change if Ben instigates another fight in Detroit. :)

Nash has 2 mvp's, and led his team deep in the playoffs.

But if he leaves after a year or two, you think his number would be retired by Phoenix? I seriously doubt it. You have to stay loyal to a franchise a little longer then Ben and Nash (so far) have been.

[ShoogarBear]

Here's something to do in your spare time: find out how many seasons Charles Barkley played with Phoenix Suns. While you're at it, how many years did Connie Hawkins or Paul Westphal play with them?

Then tell us what Phoenix did with their numbers.

Now admittedly Barkley and Westphal got their teams to at least one NBA Final, so maybe you have a point about Nash. But judging by the MVP awards, we must be living in the Age of Total Steve Nash Dominance of the NBA, which should count for something.

And oh, by the way, of all the people mentioned, only Ben Wallace has actually won an NBA title.

When Wallace's playing days are over, retiring his number should be a no-brainer.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Here's something to do in your spare time: find out how many seasons Charles Barkley played with Phoenix Suns. While you're at it, how many years did Connie Hawkins or Paul Westphal play with them?

Then tell us what Phoenix did with their numbers.

Now admittedly Barkley and Westphal got their teams to at least one NBA Final, so maybe you have a point about Nash. But judging by the MVP awards, we must be living in the Age of Total Steve Nash Dominance of the NBA, which should count for something.

And oh, by the way, of all the people mentioned, only Ben Wallace has actually won an NBA title.

When Wallace's playing days are over, retiring his number should be a no-brainer.

You're comparing Charles Barkley to Ben Wallace.

You figure Ben Wallace ends up in the hall of fame and one of the top 50 players of all time?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Btw

Charles could hit a jumpshot as well as D up.

[ShoogarBear]

You're comparing Charles Barkley to Ben Wallace.

You figure Ben Wallace ends up in the hall of fame and one of the top 50 players of all time?

Man, you are so all over the place. Let's try to do this logically:

-You said Ben wouldn't get his number retired because he only played there a few years and won a "couple" of DPOYs.
-I point out that he actually won 4 (more than anyone else excep Dikembe) and got two trips to the Finals and one title.
-You somehow think that merits a comparison to Nash and if he'll get his number retired.
-WTF? Okay, I play along point out three players on the Suns got their numbers retired playing fewer years than Wallace, none of whom won titles. Yes, Nash will get his reitred with the Suns.
-You: Barkley is a HoFer.
-Me: So what? Not a requirement to get your number retired. Westphal is not a HoF and only played ~5 years with the Suns. Ben Wallace may end up as a borderline HoFer with a ring and 4 DPOYers.

No matter what argument you try to make, Wallace has you beat. He has more years and more accomplishments than a lot of other players who have their numbers retired.

The only way Detroit doesn't retire it is out of spite, and I don't see that happening.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and if you think Barkley played D, you've lost all credibility.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Man, you are so all over the place. Let's try to do this logically:

-You said Ben wouldn't get his number retired because he only played there a few years and won a "couple" of DPOYs.
-I point out that he actually won 4 (more than anyone else excep Dikembe) and got two trips to the Finals and one title.
-You somehow think that merits a comparison to Nash and if he'll get his number retired.
-WTF? Okay, I play along point out three players on the Suns got their numbers retired playing fewer years than Wallace, none of whom won titles. Yes, Nash will get his reitred with the Suns.
-You: Barkley is a HoFer.
-Me: So what? Not a requirement to get your number retired. Westphal is not a HoF and only played ~5 years with the Suns. Ben Wallace may end up as a borderline HoFer with a ring and 4 DPOYers.

No matter what argument you try to make, Wallace has you beat. He has more years and more accomplishments than a lot of other players who have their numbers retired.

The only way Detroit doesn't retire it is out of spite, and I don't see that happening.

You brought Barkley into the equation.

Yes he played less years than Wallace, but he's a hall of famer. That's my point. Wallace is not a hall of famer, his "credentials" consist of a ring and 4 DPOY awards.

...my point is, Nash has 2 MVP trophies, which would rival 4 DPOY trophies. He's been with the Suns about as long as Wallace has been with the Pistons. If he left after this year, with his 2 MVP trophies, and deep in the playoff appearances, do you retire Nash's jersey? No.

Do you retire Sean Elliots jersey? No.

Do you retire Horry's jersey in Houston? No.

Do you retire Rodman's jersey in Chicago? No.



You can make an argument for Billups or Hamilton meaning as much to that team if not more than Wallace. Sheed played a huge role as well. Ben Wallace was a fan favorite, one dimensional player. I wouldn't retire his jersey.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Oh, and...

Barkleys defense > Wallaces offense

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Correction, Nash hasn't been there as long as Ben has been in Detroit...but you get the point.

[FreshPrince22]

Yes, he was the foundation of a title team. He will have his jersey retired. There is a reason why he's switching numbers in Chicago.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Yes, he was the foundation of a title team. He will have his jersey retired. There is a reason why he's switching numbers in Chicago.

Because numbers the Pistons retire are universally retired throughout the league?

[ShoogarBear]

You need a course in logic.

[Obstructed_View]

Oh, and if you think Barkley played D, you've lost all credibility.
If you don't think Barkley was a great defender, you've been watching too much TNT and not enough of his game. He defended Jordan, Shaq and Robinson, and did a goddamn good job of it.

[whottt]

Is Babe Ruth's jersey retired by the Red Sox?

[whottt]

If you don't think Barkley was a great defender, you've been watching too much TNT and not enough of his game. He defended Jordan, Shaq and Robinson, and did a goddamn good job of it.


You're insane...

[Quadzilla99]

Yes. He won 4 DPOYs awards there and got a ring. The real question should be does he make the HOF? If he gets in Rodman has to I think.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

You need a course in logic.

If you say so, sugar.

[Obstructed_View]

You're insane...
Weak, but typical.

[ShoogarBear]

Is Babe Ruth's jersey retired by the Red Sox?

Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make, but I would argue that it's not an analogous situation because:

a) Ruth was sold to the Yankees; he didn't leave
b) Ruth's best years were with the Yankees. Wallace's best years will always be with the Pistons.
c) Ruth achieved far greater immortality (infamy?) in Boston than probably just about any retired number anywhere

You could still make a huge case that Ruth's number SHOULD have been retired anyway, since he remained Boston's greatest left-handed pitcher (and probably in their top 3-4 pitchers ever) for about 70 years.

Maybe if the Red Sux had retired Ruth's number, they could win something more frequently than once every hundred years.

[whottt]

Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make,


That being a great player and even leading your team to championships, isn't justification for that team retiring your jersey...particularly if the post employment relationship is one of estrangement.



but I would argue that it's not an analogous situation because:

a) Ruth was sold to the Yankees; he didn't leave

That part is different, and is a notable difference that I hoped would be mentioned...but it in no way weakens my point and in fact, it strengthens it...

Ruth didn't have a choice about leaving, he might not have even wanted to, and he still wasn't retired...Wallace did have a choice.


Ruth didn't choose to stop being a Sox...Wallace did choose to stop being a Piston. That's a mark against Wallace.....




b) Ruth's best years were with the Yankees. Wallace's best years will always be with the Pistons.
c) Ruth achieved far greater immortality (infamy?) in Boston than probably just about any retired number anywhere

You could still make a huge case that Ruth's number SHOULD have been retired anyway, since he remained Boston's greatest left-handed pitcher (and probably in their top 3-4 pitchers ever) for about 70 years.


You sure could make a huge case for his jersey being retired by the Sox......you could mention several points...including that Ruth still holds World Series pitching records, and very high career era and winning PCT ranking for pitchers, that he set as a Red Sock(x?)

I'll simply point out...that it isn't.



Maybe if the Red Sux had retired Ruth's number, they could win something more frequently than once every hundred years.

And baseball would be the poorer for it.................