Nazr [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

himat

07-05-2006, 12:20 PM

Trying to look for a silver lining for Ben leaving. Spur fans have watched Mohammad. Do you think he can/will improve? And do you think he'll do better with the Piston players than Spur players?

Quadzilla99

07-05-2006, 12:21 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45425

boutons_

07-05-2006, 12:23 PM

"Do you think he can/will improve? "

At his age, with so many college/pro years, he's still missing so many big man fundamentals. So, no.

And that's without even mentioning his useless hands.

Nice guy, no attitude problems, but he can't play basketball.

Mr. Body

07-05-2006, 12:27 PM

In a more wide-open offense he can be pretty effective. He's had games (not at SA) where he's scored 20 and games where he's taken in tons of rebounds; I'm sure he has a 20 rebound game or two on the books.

Detroit will look to be more mobile, more offensive minded, use Flip's zone more. In all these things Nazr will be fine. He seems pretty durable, too. One thing that helps, as I've said in another thread, is that with the players the Pistons have, he won't need to catch so many close-range dump-off passes. Hamilton has his mid-range and only sometimes goes all the way under; Prince can finish himself during his drives; most everyone else is a jumpshooter primarily. What hurt the Spurs was that both Ginobili and Parker regularly go to the basket. Sometimes they found themselves in trouble and tried to dump it down, which he almost always failed to collect.

JamStone

07-05-2006, 12:28 PM

As excited as I'm not with the Pistons having acquired Nazr, I take him over the prospects of Antonio McDyess playing 30+ minutes and re-injuring his knee or starting Dale Davis and him playing significant minutes. Unlike Tim Duncan and the Spurs this past season, the Pistons do not have many alternatives that appear better than acquiring Nazr for the MLE and him playing the bulk of the center minutes.

Sportcamper

07-05-2006, 12:31 PM

Pistons will not make the play-offs next season...I guaren-Sheed it.... :lol

Mr. Body

07-05-2006, 12:33 PM

Who's going to take Detroit's spot? At least 4-5 teams need to make up ground to do that.

Boston? Philadelphia? Atlanta? Charlotte? Toronto? Orlando?

There are still so many terrible teams in the conference.

JamStone

07-05-2006, 12:36 PM

Losing Ben Wallace was a huge blow to the Pistons. But, not even make the playoffs next year? That's an extreme notion to say the least.

himat

07-05-2006, 01:05 PM

I think he was just kidding. Next year I see Tayshaun taking over games and becoming a top SF. Right now we're not in the greatest position, but it will allow us to see what the youngsters got. By midseason Joe D. can make a move if it's available and if he has to. We definantly won't be favorites, but if Joe makes some moves we can be back on the best stage.

picnroll

07-05-2006, 01:42 PM

Vinnie_Johnson

07-05-2006, 02:32 PM

What's worse Detroit fans?

Drafting Darko, passing on Wade, Bosh, Melo, even Hinrich.
Losing Darko for Cato to save cap to re-sign Wallace.
Losing Wallace for nothing.
North Korea having nuclear missile capability.

Drafting Darko, passing on Wade, Bosh, Melo, even Hinrich

we still have the magic's pick next year that we got for Darko so lets just see.

Mr. Body

07-05-2006, 02:43 PM

That Magic pick might be nice. There's no guarantee Orlando's in the playoffs. At this point a lottery shot at Greg Oden is gold. The consolations ain't that bad, either.

Quadzilla99

07-05-2006, 02:45 PM

That Magic pick might be nice. There's no guarantee Orlando's in the playoffs. At this point a lottery shot at Greg Oden is gold. The consolations ain't that bad, either.

It's top 5 protected.

bdictjames

07-05-2006, 03:12 PM

Pistons will not make the play-offs next season...I guaren-Sheed it.... :lol

That's a pretty lame joke.. but I can't guaran-SHEED(or whatever that is) that the Pistons can't get a playoff spot next year - if Hamilton suddenly becomes Jordan(haha)

Nazr? No offense but, he can't replace Ben. No one can.

zeleni

07-05-2006, 03:18 PM

Losing Ben Wallace was a huge blow to the Pistons. But, not even make the playoffs next year? That's an extreme notion to say the least.

They will make the playoffs. Flip is a master of getting there. But he just don't get champions game. I'll say they are no match to Toronto at this point.

ShoogarBear

07-05-2006, 03:44 PM

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Rasho vs. Nazr in the ECF next year.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Quadzilla99

07-05-2006, 03:49 PM

^^Yeah that's true those of us who have League Pass can watch Nazr and Rasho battle it out head to head 4 times in the EC next year. That will be weird. The winner will be officially crowned the 11th best center in the Eastern Conference.

Taco

07-05-2006, 03:58 PM

Nazr Mohammad = Manos de Piedra (Hands of Stone)

CavsSuperFan

07-05-2006, 04:07 PM

Please_dont_ban_me

07-05-2006, 04:07 PM

He'll be the same.

But appreciated.

JamStone

07-05-2006, 05:20 PM

I never thought the Pistons would be a Dynasty but who knew that they would come unraveled this soon...1st Larry Brown, then Big Ben....I bet even Mason will bolt for Chicago....
http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/images/mason_220_1.jpg

"Unraveled" is a strong way of putting it. Ben Wallace was a HUGE part of who the Detroit Pistons were the last four years. But, he wasn't the entire team. Pistons will definitely not be as good. But, this isn't a Shaquille O'Neal leaving "unravelling." He was one very important piece, but not the entire franchise.

When Shaq left the Lakers, they didn't make the playoffs the following year. I'm pretty sure the Pistons have a very good chance at making the playoffs next year still. And, while nowhere nearly as strong, I still think the Pistons can be contenders in the Eastern Conference. Not the best team in the EC anymore. Arguably not a top 3 team in the EC anymore. But, still a contender.

JamStone

07-05-2006, 05:23 PM

He'll be the same.

But appreciated.

"But appreciated."

Ben was one of the most appreciated and beloved Detroit athletes in a looooooong time. The city adored him. The Pistons franchise built their team and marketing around him. Joe Dumars gave him a $36 million contract when no one else in the NBA knew anything about him.

I hope you're talking about Mason the announcer, because saying he wasn't appreciated in Detroit or by the Detroit Pistons is ridiculous.

Please_dont_ban_me

07-05-2006, 05:39 PM

"But appreciated."

Ben was one of the most appreciated and beloved Detroit athletes in a looooooong time. The city adored him. The Pistons franchise built their team and marketing around him. Joe Dumars gave him a $36 million contract when no one else in the NBA knew anything about him.

I hope you're talking about Mason the announcer, because saying he wasn't appreciated in Detroit or by the Detroit Pistons is ridiculous.

Correction.

Dumars adored him. Pistons fans only started adoring him when he began playing good. You think they were happy to trade Grant Hill for some scrub nobody had ever heard of?

My point was about Nazr, btw. That he will be appreciated in Detroit.

SAGambler

07-05-2006, 05:49 PM

I see no reason Pistons miss playoffs next year. In fact, Chicago may have done Detroit a huge favor. Big Ben, in the last quarter of the season and in the playoffs, just didn't look like the Big Ben of earlier days.

I still say Chicago rues the day they handed him a huge contract. And I still say the Pistons make the playoffs next year. I don't see a whole lot of the celler dwellers in the East making up that much ground.

Quadzilla99

07-05-2006, 07:19 PM

Dumars admits he didnt think Wallace was going to be anything more than a rotation player when he traded for him.

JamStone

07-05-2006, 07:22 PM

The rest of the NBA didn't think Wallace was even a rotation player.

Ben Wallace got a $36 million contract from Dumars before he was even a regular starter.

ShoogarBear

07-05-2006, 07:33 PM

So then if Dumars didn't think he was ever going to be more than a rotation player, why did he give him the $36 million contract to begin with?

JamStone

07-05-2006, 09:15 PM

So then if Dumars didn't think he was ever going to be more than a rotation player, why did he give him the $36 million contract to begin with?

That's my point. I never heard or seen a quote from Dumars saying he didn't feel Ben was more than just a rotation player when he signed him. But, maybe he did say it. Giving Ben a six year contract at about $6 million a year shows that he at least felt Ben could have been an "IMPORTANT" rotation player.

Please_dont_ban_me

07-05-2006, 09:18 PM

ShoogarBear

07-06-2006, 08:03 AM

That's my point. I never heard or seen a quote from Dumars saying he didn't feel Ben was more than just a rotation player when he signed him. But, maybe he did say it. Giving Ben a six year contract at about $6 million a year shows that he at least felt Ben could have been an "IMPORTANT" rotation player.

:lol Okay, I'm trying not to get turned around by the "never"/"nots" here.

I think what you're saying is the following:

-Joe Dumars was actually quoted as saying he thought Ben Wallace was going to be a rotation player.
-Joe Dumars was never quoted as saying he thought Wallace would be more than a rotation player.
-Yet he gave the guy $36 million, so he must have thought more than what he stated.

I have no knowledge about the first two statements, but the $36 million must have meant something. Maybe he just got lucky.

JamStone

07-06-2006, 08:20 AM

Quadzilla99 was the one who said Dumars admitted he didn't think Ben Wallace was going to be more than a rotation player. I didn't say that.

I said even if Dumars did say that, he must have thought that Wallace was going to be at least an "important" rotation player to give him $6 million a year for 6 years.

As for $6 million a year for a rotation player, there are plenty of examples of players that don't even start that make that much or more.

And, by me saying Dumars believed in Ben enough to give him that much money back in 2000-01, I'm inferring that I don't really believe Dumars felt that Ben Wallace would only be a rotation player.

ShoogarBear

07-06-2006, 09:00 AM

Yeah, but usually the non-starters that get $6 million have done something to prove it beforehand.

These are Wallace's stats leading up to the last six years in Detroit:

1998-99 16 games, 17 mpg, 3.1 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 bpg
1999-00 16 games, 27 mpg, 6.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.0 bpg
2000-01 81 games, 24 mpg, 4.8 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.6 bpg

So I guess there was maybe a hint of what was to come, but $36 million was still a huge gamble. It would be interesting to pull up some of the media reaction to the contract at that time.

JamStone

07-06-2006, 09:02 AM

Shooga,

Exactly right. Which is why I question whether Joe Dumars "admits" what Quadzilla claims.

baseline bum

07-06-2006, 12:40 PM

Trying to look for a silver lining for Ben leaving. Spur fans have watched Mohammad. Do you think he can/will improve? And do you think he'll do better with the Piston players than Spur players?

I think Nazr's as good as he'll ever be. He's an excellent rebounder, especially on the offensive glass. He's a decent low-post threat. When it comes to hands, he's the anti-Duncan. He also plays horrible defense. Rasheed and Prince should help to cover that up a bit though.

He seemed wholly unmotivated this season, and he looked terrible. He was also worthless most of the 2005 season. He was getting tons of DNPs until Nesterovich got injured in Phoenix in 2005. He got pretty hot in the playoffs though, to the point that Rasho never cracked the rotation again. It was very frustrating, because it looked like he turned the corner, but in the 2006 season his play returned to the pre-Rasho-injury level.

Sportcamper

07-06-2006, 01:19 PM

Was Ben Wallace any good on defense?

mikejones99

07-10-2006, 01:23 PM

Nazr will be good in Detroit if he can stand to live in the dump and doesn't leave like Elliot. Detroit wins 55. Spurs are fucking up letting Rasho and Nazr go. Bill Simmons is a genius. Ron Artest best thing is that he got a few Detroit fans put away.

DarkReign

07-10-2006, 01:30 PM