North Korea....oh no you didn't!

[SoCalSpursFan]

Launched test missle.

Does this upset you like it does the rest of the world?

[T-Pain]

yes.

[ChumpDumper]

When do we invade?

[zeleni]

When do we invade?
Can I help you? I would like to make George W Bush sane again.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you mean "again"?

[JoeChalupa]

No.

[George Gervin's Afro]

maybe mr kim jong il should have a car accident.. end of problem

[Nbadan]

Looks like the North is getting ready to launch again...


North Korea appears to be making preparations to launch another long-range Taepodong-2 missile but the missile is not yet on the launch pad, NBC News reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed U.S. officials.

NBC said the missile was nonetheless in its final assembly stage.

North Korea launched at least six missiles early on Wednesday and a seventh some 12 hours later, officials in Japan and South Korea said.

Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-07-06T003725Z_01_N04284348_RTRUKOC_0_US-KOREA-NORTH-MISSILE.xml)

[SA Gunslinger]

When do we invade?

Are you serious? The only reason they are pulling this crap is to used it as a bargaining chip for economic assistance. Most, if not all the nukes in North Korea are pointed at Japan.

I don't see any reason to invade because they don't have any intention to bomb the US.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you serious?Who can tell?

[Phil E.Buster]

Are you serious? The only reason they are pulling this crap is to used it as a bargaining chip for economic assistance. Most, if not all the nukes in North Korea are pointed at Japan.

I don't see any reason to invade because they don't have any intention to bomb the US.

Tell that to Dubya.

[Yonivore]

maybe mr kim jong il should have a car accident.. end of problem
That would require -- if you're inferring an assassination by U.S. agents -- a violation of federal law. Is that what you're proposing?

[George Gervin's Afro]

That would require -- if you're inferring an assassination by U.S. agents -- a violation of federal law. Is that what you're proposing?


proposing? no... i was just mentioning that things would be easier if he were to have an accident.. that would be some tough luck..

[SA Gunslinger]

Tell that to Dubya.

He knows it. The US cannot show weakness hence the tough rhetoric. I think the US is handling it correctly. I just don't think he would actually commit troops unless North Korea does something that actually constitutes an act of war, similar to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

The way I see it, Japan is an ally. A rich ally, if you get my drift. North Korea scares the crap out of them more than anyone else. Japan has invested a lot of money in the US.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think sabatoge was behind the failed long range missle test. Maybe the US did what I thought they'd do and plotted or at least aided it.

If so, Kudos. Keep it up.

[jochhejaam]

Did I read somewhere that Jong uses 60% of his Country's GNP on the military? While his people are starving? Someone (China, Russia) needs to reign in that brutal dictator's regime

I would't give that demented midget's Country nickel-one in the way of aid. If he were in his right mind (he's not) he'd put away his toys (N. Korea has nothing any one covets) and concentrate on helping the citizens of his Country by whatever means possible. He should be on his little knees begging the International Community, first for forgiveness and then for whatever type of aid they could provide. And they would respond.

[velik_m]

Did I read somewhere that Jong uses 60% of his Country's GNP on the military? While his people are starving? Someone (China, Russia) needs to reign in that brutal dictator's regime

I would't give that demented midget's Country nickel-one in the way of aid. If he were in his right mind (he's not) he'd put away his toys (N. Korea has nothing any one covets) and concentrate on helping the citizens of his Country by whatever means possible. He should be on his little knees begging the International Community, first for forgiveness and then for whatever type of aid they could provide. And they would respond.

Acording to wikipedia it's 20-25 % of GNP, still a lot. But it's a big army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_korea#Military):

According to Western estimates, North Korea has the fifth-largest military in the world, with the largest percentage of civilians enlisted (49.03 active troops per thousand citizens). The North has an estimated 1.08 million armed personnel, compared to about 686,000 South Korean troops (and 3.5 million paramilitary forces) plus 17,000 US troops in South Korea. Military spending is estimated at 20%-25% of GNP, which would mean that the DPRK spends the largest proportion of its GNP on its military in the world. The North has perhaps the world's second-largest special operations force (55,000), designed for insertion behind enemy lines in wartime. While the North has a relatively impressive fleet of submarines, its surface fleet has a very limited capability. Its air force has twice the number of aircraft as the South, but except for a few advanced fighters (about 20 MiG-29s), the North's air force is obsolete.

compare that to China:
The People's Liberation Army (PLA), with its 2.25 million active troops, is currently the largest military in the world. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China#Military)

and USA:
Approximately 1.4 million personnel are currently on active duty in the military with an additional 860,000 personnel in the seven reserve components (456,000 of which are in the Army and Air National Guard) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States)

North Korea has about 23 mil population.

[zeleni]

Acording to wikipedia it's 20-25 % of GNP, still a lot. But it's a big army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_korea#Military):

According to Western estimates, North Korea has the fifth-largest military in the world, with the largest percentage of civilians enlisted (49.03 active troops per thousand citizens). The North has an estimated 1.08 million armed personnel, compared to about 686,000 South Korean troops (and 3.5 million paramilitary forces) plus 17,000 US troops in South Korea. Military spending is estimated at 20%-25% of GNP, which would mean that the DPRK spends the largest proportion of its GNP on its military in the world. The North has perhaps the world's second-largest special operations force (55,000), designed for insertion behind enemy lines in wartime. While the North has a relatively impressive fleet of submarines, its surface fleet has a very limited capability. Its air force has twice the number of aircraft as the South, but except for a few advanced fighters (about 20 MiG-29s), the North's air force is obsolete.

compare that to China:
The People's Liberation Army (PLA), with its 2.25 million active troops, is currently the largest military in the world. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China#Military)

and USA:
Approximately 1.4 million personnel are currently on active duty in the military with an additional 860,000 personnel in the seven reserve components (456,000 of which are in the Army and Air National Guard) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States)

North Korea has about 23 mil population.

That is pathological... USA would be stupid not to invade. And so war would be the only sane thing to do. UN would say OK.

[DarkReign]

That is pathological... USA would be stupid not to invade. And so war would be the only sane thing to do. UN would say OK.

As if the UN has influenced this Administration in any way, shape or form.

Regardless, No. The UN would not sanction that action.

Not that I care either...

If this WH actually wanted to remove brutal dictators, with WMDs, that were an actual threat, NK would have been first on the list.

Nope. Instead they pick on the retarded kid named Iraq. What is the difference between Iraq and NK?

Hmmmmmmmm.....

[xrayzebra]

As if the UN has any credibility with anyone. It is the most dysfunctional organizations
in the world. Where more than half never pay their dues, pay their obligations to
so called peace keeping or humanitarian relief.

It is corrupt to the core. Many do not even pay the landlords their rent for the
buildings they occupy. And well we know what they do about their parking tickets.

[CubanMustGo]

That is pathological... USA would be stupid not to invade. And so war would be the only sane thing to do. UN would say OK.

The reasons the US cannot invade DPRK (NK) are many:
(1) They probably can make some nukes, even if they can't launch them yet. That crazy bastard in Pyongyang will set them off if we invade.
(2) Seoul is like 25 miles from the border. There aren't enough US/RoK troops to keep NK from going apeshit on Seoul and bombing it all to hell.
(3) Most of our combat troops are in Iraq.
(4) A bunch of the rest are in Afghanistan.
(5) We have virtually no intelligence assets on the ground in NK (not that what we had in other places recently has done us much good).
(6) Remember the Korean War? If US decided to invade NK China would probably get involved as they are NK's closest ally. Russia is next ... and all we need to do is give those two countries more reasons to draw closer.
(7) Once one nuke goes off, the whole equation changes dramatically.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The US wouldn't be able to invade NK while still occupying Iraq. North Korea knows this. The most the US can do right now is impose economic sanctions, and that isn't going to stop them. We'll just have to accept there will be yet another nuclear power in the world.

to answer your question, I'm about as upset as when the US does their missile tests

[jochhejaam]

Wacko!


Friday July 7, 8:06 AM

N. Korea missile aimed at area off Hawaii

TOKYO (Reuters) - A North Korean missile launched on Wednesday was aimed at an area of the ocean close to Hawaii, a Japanese newspaper reported on Friday.
Experts estimated the Taepodong-2 ballistic missile to have a range of up to 6,000 km, putting Alaska within its reach. Wednesday's launch apparently failed shortly after take-off and the missile landed in the sea between the Korean peninsula and Japan, a few hundred kilometres from the launch pad.

But data from U.S. and Japanese Aegis radar-equipped destroyers and surveillance aircraft on the missile's angle of take-off and altitude indicated that it was heading for waters near Hawaii, the Sankei Shimbun reported, citing multiple sources in the United States and Japan.

North Korea may have targeted Hawaii to show the United States that it was capable of landing a missile there, or because it is home to the headquarters of the U.S. Pacific fleet, the paper said.

An alternative explanation might be that a missile could accidentally hit land if fired towards Alaska, the report said.

A separate report in the Mainichi Shimbun daily cited U.S. and Japanese government officials as saying a piece of the Taepodong-2 missile fell off immediately after take-off, strengthening the view that the launch was a failure.




http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060707/3/2mty8.html

[Guru of Nothing]

Did I read somewhere that Jong uses 60% of his Country's GNP on the military? While his people are starving? Someone (China, Russia) needs to reign in that brutal dictator's regime

Hahahahaha!!

Christian outsourcing?

[scott]

According to Western estimates, North Korea has the fifth-largest military in the world, with the largest percentage of civilians enlisted (49.03 active troops per thousand citizens).

As the late great Bill Hicks once said...

"Yeah, Iraq supposedly had the 6th largest Army in the world... but after the top 3 there is a huge drop off. I mean, the Hare Krishna's have the 5th largest Army in the World."

[MannyIsGod]

I guess non dircect non exisitant non negotations achieve non results.

[Guru of Nothing]

I guess non dircect non exisitant non negotations achieve non results.


NonU NonU

http://www.friendly-fascism.com/photos/personal/images/mork_from_ork.jpg

[jochhejaam]

Acording to wikipedia it's 20-25 % of GNP, still a lot. But it's a big army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_korea#Military):


I knew it was a lot but I overstated it by quite a bit. Thanks for researching it velik.







[QUOTE=MannyIsGod]I guess non dircect non exisitant non negotations achieve non results.
Not sure if I'm reading the sarcasm correctly Manny but N. Korea would love to make it look as if their Nuclear and Missle Program is basically a problem between them and the U.S. Obviously that's not the case, it's a problem between N. Korea and the rest of the Free World, hence no direct negotiations with just our Country and thiers.

[Ya Vez]

yeah I guess firing missles aimed at hitting close to hawaii isn't a big deal .. it doesn't take much for a retaliation should that missle go off course and actually hit hawaii.. it's stupid on the N. Koreans to even think of hitting anywhere near a US state...

[xrayzebra]

Well we have the most knowledgeable Professor from UTSA and his slant on things.
As usual. It is Our Fault. I wonder sometimes why he wants to stay in such a
rotten country, as ours. We have so many here now like him. Really strange.


Mansour El-Kikhia: Did U.S. get N. Korea's message?

Web Posted: 07/07/2006 12:00 AM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

Pyongyang test-fired seven missiles this week. Some failed, others succeeded, but all landed harmlessly in the Sea of Japan.

The consequences of the Korean experiment, however, were not as harmless. Global news outlets devoted large chunks of air time to the issue; oil prices shot to a new high of $75; and docile Japan, visibly shaken, lodged a formal complaint against Pyongyang at the United Nations.

The Bush administration was also surprised by North Korea's brazen action, given that President Bush spent last week telling the North Korean leadership that he considered test-firing any long-range ballistic missile a serious provocation.

It seems the threats and warnings to North Korea's leaders fell on deaf ears. They decided to defy the Bush administration and tested their equipment on the Fourth of July.

Why did the North Koreans resort to the kind of brinksmanship that could develop into a dangerous crisis for the peninsula, the region and the world? The answer is not simple, and it involves intangibles that the U.S. government precipitated.

First, insecurity seems to be at the core of the Pyongyang-Washington relationship. The U.S. government, for some reason, seems to think it can maintain 60,000-plus troops in the demilitarized zone confronting the North Koreans and simultaneously warn them not to build weapons for self-defense.

The Bush administration foolishly ensured North Korea's distrust of the United States when it pontificated on arms elimination and simultaneously placed the Asian country on its "axis of evil" list. Why would any country placed on such a list of a military superpower feel secure?

Second, North Korea's leadership has watched and learned. If Iraq had possessed nuclear weapons, the Bush administration would have thought twice about invading the Middle Eastern country. It is making sure that it is not caught in the same position.

Third, Pyongyang is sending a very important message to the Bush administration. Indeed, it is sending two messages.

The first informed the United States that it has the hardware. The second is more important. The launch date — the Fourth of July — was chosen to get the administration's attention.

It got Bush's attention, telling him that North Korea's willingness to use whatever power it has is real, unaffected by threats or intimidation. This is important, because in one swoop, North Korea used the three elements of deterrence. It demonstrated weapon possession, it showed willingness to use that power, and it communicated that to its opponents.

Fourth, the United States is offering Iran nuclear reactors and incentives to stop enriching weapon-grade uranium, yet refuses to do the same for North Korea. By testing these missiles, Pyongyang is telling the United States, Japan and South Korea that they have a bigger problem than Iran and they should start making better offers.

North Korea is in a much worse political, economic and cultural state than Iran. It is on the verge of starvation and collapse. And were it not for the humanitarian support it received from the United States and South Korea, it would have experienced wide starvation.

There is no doubt its leaders will continue to use missile technology as a bargaining chip to finagle more Western concessions and aid or as a source of hard currency by selling it to Third World countries seeking delivery systems. Libya has already been talking to North Korea about military cooperation.

So what should Bush do? He should stop making mountains out of molehills, understand the process of politics, not threaten unless he is willing to follow through on the threats and, finally, practice what he preaches. Don't ask other countries to sign and abide by international agreements when he did neither.

The North Korean regime is insignificant and its actions have doomed it to the dustbin of history. It is only a matter of time, and the U.S. government will be well-served not to delay that by foolish actions.
[email protected]
Online at: http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/columnists/melkikhia/stories/MYSA070706.2O.mansour.938b09.html


One more little note: Notice, what he said about the nukes. Is he trying to make
a case for Iran here? They have to have nukes to stop us from invading? We
want invade if they have nukes?

Then he tells Bush to ignore N. Korea, that he is making mountains out of molehills.

Of course the good professor has so many facts wrong in his piece. 60 thousand
troops IN the demilitarized zone. Wrong. Wonder if he knows the meaning of the
word "demilitarized"?

We also gave N. Korea nuclear technology for power. And he abused it.

Oh, well. You get the drift.

[ObiwanGinobili]

forgive me if I'm wrong.....

All of those missles were duds but could have easily "accidentily" landed in Japan.
Most of them are aimed at Japan.

as far as i remeber being told, after WWII wasn't Japan limited to spending less than 2% on national defense? And are we not inturn obligated to defend them should the need arise?

[xrayzebra]

^^Yes you are quite correct, we are obligated to provide Japan with protection. It
is part of our agreement with them to keep them from raising a large standing, offensive,
military.

[ObiwanGinobili]

So then shouldn;t we all be pretty much pissed at North Korea for firing missles near a country that we are bound to protect and thereby potentially drawing us into another conflict that we don't have the $$ for and alot of people dying?

i mean, thats pretty shitty.
i don't understand why some would be "ehhhhh" on this subject.

[CubanMustGo]

Someone tell the socialist at UTSA that there are only 37,000 US troops in the RoK (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1152AP_US_Military_NKorea.html), not "60,000-plus", and we have been drawing them down steadily in recent years. Plans are on the books to reduce that number to 25,000 by 2008.

[xrayzebra]

Well, you got to understand he doesn't understand what "demilitarized" means
either. But he knows how to fix everything. He is an over educated idiot and
the darling of the academic elite.

[NorCal510]

kill those bitches fuck them

[Cant_Be_Faded]

A japanese newspaper reported that one of the missles was aimed at Hawaii.

[SA Gunslinger]

For those of you who are in favor of invading NK, how would you propose to do it?

Or do you think the US should just nuke North Korea?

Would the US have to invoke a draft if war breaks out in the Korean peninsula?

Should the Japanese be allowed to mobilize an army to help fight North Korea?

I have asked myself these questions and none are easy to answer. I've lost one family member in Iraq and losing anymore scares the shit out of me. Because another Korean war will be bloody as hell.

[jochhejaam]

It's rare for Jack Kelly to put out a subpar column and he doesn't disappoint with this one.



N. Korea's missile madness


NORTH Korea manufactured a crisis when, on what was the Fourth of July in these parts, Kim Jong Il's regime test fired seven missiles, one of them the Taepodong 2, which (in theory at least) could reach the West Coast of the United States.

Just about everybody wants a diplomatic solution. The difficulty in finding one is that in addition to being vicious and untrustworthy, the leadership in North Korea may be certifiably insane, as this report indicates:

"Food and fuel supplies sent to North Korea have been halted, not to force North Korea to stop missile tests or participate in peace talks, but to return the Chinese trains the aid was carried in on," reported StrategyPage Wednesday.

"In the last few weeks, the North Koreans have just kept the trains, sending the Chinese crews back across the border. North Korea ignores Chinese demands that the trains be returned, and insists the trains are part of the aid program."

How does one negotiate with a regime that does stuff like this? Not successfully, as the Clinton administration found out.

On Oct. 21, 1994, the Clinton administration signed a deal (the Agreed Framework) under which the United States supplied food and fuel oil to North Korea, and helped it construct two nuclear electric power generating stations, in exchange for North Korea's promise to stop its nuclear weapons program. North Korea took the aid, and (apparently) built its bomb anyway.

I say apparently because even though North Korea claims to have nuclear weapons, it's never tested one, and the results of the missile tests July 4 give some reason to doubt the efficacy of North Korean technology.

Six of the missiles were short- range Scud Cs or medium-range Nodongs. The long range Taepodong 2 failed within 40 seconds of flight.

Slate's military writer, Fred Kaplan, described the tests as a "catastrophe" for North Korea. "If you're going to defy all your enemies and allies, you'd better come away from the gamble with added strength and leverage," he wrote. "Kim Jong Il emerges from the Taepodong disaster with his chips spent and a pair of deuces on the table."

The Heritage Foundation's Peter Brookes, a former CIA officer, agrees: "This provocation will turn out to be a complete loser for Pyongyang," he said.

The Web logger "Spook 86," a retired Air Force intelligence officer, isn't so sure. The tests demonstrated North Korea has mastered intermediate-range ballistic missile technology, he said, worrisome because North Korea is estimated to have nearly 700 of these missiles.

Conducting all the tests within a four-hour window shows North Korea has the capability to barrage its missiles, said Jon Wolfstahl, an analyst for the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C.

Sales of the Nodong to other outlaw regimes have been a major source of hard currency for North Korea. Tuesday's tests won't discourage them, though buyers won't be lining up anytime soon for the Taepodong 2.

North Korea did get what it wants most. Mr. Kim is in some ways like a petulant child who misbehaves in order to get his parents' attention.

Mr. Kim has never been punished for outlandish behavior. On the contrary, he has usually - as in 1994 - been rewarded for it. He may be insane, but he's not stupid. He'll continue to do what works for him, until it no longer does.

Stupid is, however, a fair description for those in the West who respond to each new outrage from North Korea with the attention Mr. Kim craves, and fresh offers of aid in exchange for promises he has no intention of keeping.

The United States currently is engaged in six-party talks with North Korea (the others are China, Japan, Russia, and South Korea), the purpose of which is to get North Korea to abandon its nuclear weapons program in exchange for massive aid.

The miniscule hopes for a satisfactory diplomatic solution rest with China, without whose support North Korea would collapse. China has so far refused to take a hard line with North Korea, both because China enjoys the headaches North Korea makes for the United States, and because it fears a flood of refugees if Mr. Kim's regime collapses.

Mr. Kim has stuck a finger in China's eye by conducting the missile tests despite their protests, and by seizing the aid trains. Perhaps this will convince the Chinese to put down the carrot and pick up the stick.

If not, our best course of action is to pay as little public attention to North Korea as possible, while building up missile defenses as rapidly as practical. If left alone, the regime eventually will collapse. But it would be better if China gave it a push.

Jack Kelly is national security writer for The Blade and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060708/OPINION04/607080368/-1/OPINION

[exstatic]

Bush creates Axis of Evil: Iraq, Iran, NK

Bush topples Iraqi regime. Iran and NK rush to build nukes. No one with a brain is surprised. They were fucking next.

[jochhejaam]

Bush creates Axis of Evil: Iraq, Iran, NK


How so?

[Yonivore]

Iran and NK rush to build nukes.
You say that as if they were sitting there twiddling their thumbs and only started their programs in March 2003.

You're an idiot.

[exstatic]

How so?
Through the media.

[exstatic]

You say that as if they were sitting there twiddling their thumbs and only started their programs in March 2003.

You're an idiot.
Both programs were in a quiescent stage, due to dimplomatic efforts of previous administrations. Shortly after that date, NK kicks out inspectors, breaks the seals on the reactors, and goes to town. Iran starts refining their own atomic fuel, which had previously been done by Russia under agreement. Neither will talk to the cowboy administration in D.C. and I can't blame them. Bushco isn't long on diplomacy. They prefer the invasion track.

[Yonivore]

Both programs were in a quiescent stage, due to dimplomatic efforts of previous administrations. Shortly after that date, NK kicks out inspectors, breaks the seals on the reactors, and goes to town. Iran starts refining their own atomic fuel, which had previously been done by Russia under agreement. Neither will talk to the cowboy administration in D.C. and I can't blame them. Bushco isn't long on diplomacy. They prefer the invasion track.
C'mon, NoKo has already admitted to accelerating their program as soon as the door closed behind Jimmy Carter.

They only went public with what they had been doing so that idiots like you would think it was a result of American aggression.

I take it back. Even idiots aren't as stupid as you.

[ChumpDumper]

On Oct. 21, 1994, the Clinton administration signed a deal (the Agreed Framework) under which the United States supplied food and fuel oil to North Korea, and helped it construct two nuclear electric power generating stations, in exchange for North Korea's promise to stop its nuclear weapons program. North Korea took the aid, and (apparently) built its bomb anyway.Misleading. We didn't live up to our side of that agreement anymore than they did.

[MannyIsGod]

The only people who don't understand why North Korea is doing what its doing are American conservatives.

[Yonivore]

Misleading. We didn't live up to our side of that agreement anymore than they did.
How is that misleading?

[Yonivore]

The only people who don't understand why North Korea is doing what its doing are American conservatives.
Yeah, that's why it's pretty much received international condemnation and earned an emergency UNSC meeting to figure out how to respond; because, everyone but American conservatives understand why they did what they did.

Is there a murderous regime you people won't defend?

[ChumpDumper]

It intimates that the reactors were built and are now operational and makes no mention of the delays and shotfalls on the KEDO side

[Yonivore]

It intimates that the reactors were built and are now operational and makes no mention of the delays and shotfalls on the KEDO side
So, they just build nukes and long range missiles instead? Got it.

[ChumpDumper]

I never expect you to get it.

And you never disappoint.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, that's why it's pretty much received international condemnation and earned an emergency UNSC meeting to figure out how to respond; because, everyone but American conservatives understand why they did what they did.

Is there a murderous regime you people won't defend?Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing and reading what you want into something I say is not. I don't know what dictionary lists understanding and defending as synonyms, but not a single one that I own does.

I never said the regime in place in North Korea was a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, I simply pointed out that American conservatives are the only ones who don't understand why North Korea does what it does.

Is there a murderous regime that I won't defend? Sure, I can't stand Israel.

[MannyIsGod]

I never expect you to get it.

And you never disappoint.Amen.

[gtownspur]

Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing and reading what you want into something I say is not. I don't know what dictionary lists understanding and defending as synonyms, but not a single one that I own does.

I never said the regime in place in North Korea was a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, I simply pointed out that American conservatives are the only ones who don't understand why North Korea does what it does.

Is there a murderous regime that I won't defend? Sure, I can't stand Israel.


Lets see palestinians murder indiscirminanately and hide behind churches, shcools, and hospitals, and when israel retaliates it's ISrael that is the murderous regime.

Howbout this you fat titty fuck. Palestine doesnt start shit, and israel will not have a reason to invade.

[jochhejaam]

Is there a murderous regime that I won't defend? Sure, I can't stand Israel.
Blind hatred. Is there anyone or anything you despise more than the Jewish State of Israel?

[MannyIsGod]

There are tons of things I dislike more than Israel. But my disdain for the government of that country has nothing to do with religion. You can continue to make it seem that way all you like, however.

[gtownspur]

There are tons of things I dislike more than Israel. But my disdain for the government of that country has nothing to do with religion. You can continue to make it seem that way all you like, however.


Start the list.

[orhe]

North Korea has every right to arm itself when its main rivals have 1000 times more nuke than they have lol...

[MannyIsGod]

Start the list.Gculo

[SA Gunslinger]

Gculo

:lmao

[sabar]

North Korea has every right to arm itself when its main rivals have 1000 times more nuke than they have lol...

I'd agree except that N.K. is ruled by a maniac and that our overall goal on this earth should be eliminating nuclear weapons, not allowing them to proliferate (in any country).

[xrayzebra]

North Korea has every right to arm itself when its main rivals have 1000 times more nuke than they have lol...

Bad reasoning on your part. It's main rival, South Korea, has no nukes.
I know you were more than likely referring to the U.S., but again, bad
reasoning. We have no desire or intention of invading N. Korea. That is
until they start there crap about Nukes. In fact we have been aiding them.

Get your facts straight.

[orhe]

Bad reasoning on your part. It's main rival, South Korea, has no nukes.
I know you were more than likely referring to the U.S., but again, bad
reasoning. We have no desire or intention of invading N. Korea. That is
until they start there crap about Nukes. In fact we have been aiding them.

Get your facts straight.

right this is an american owned board and i won't disrespect the admin but im pretty sure w/ what i said... and its not bad reasoning on my part.

any country has every right to arm itself

and how do you say you have no desire of invasion? do you work for the government? do you know what type of government the North Koreans have? do you know the history your country has against that type of government?

[xrayzebra]

right this is an american owned board and i won't disrespect the admin but im pretty sure w/ what i said... and its not bad reasoning on my part.

any country has every right to arm itself

and how do you say you have no desire of invasion? do you work for the government? do you know what type of government the North Koreans have? do you know the history your country has against that type of government?

The Administrator of this board has no influence on what is posted.

A little background on North Korea. It invaded South Korea in July 1950.
The United Nations passed a resolution to defend South Korea. An
Armistice was signed in July 1953 and the 38th parallel was established
to define the two Korea's. Same as before the war.

Last year we pulled most of our troops from the South Korean side of
the demilitarized zone and posted them in the interior of South Korea.
The South Koreans assumed the primary role as defender of their country.

Now during the Clinton administration when North Korea decided they
wanted to have Nukes, Former President Carter took it upon himself to
be the peacekeeper and went to North Korea and made a deal with them
that they could develop Atomic energy but no bomb. Clinton accepted
the deal proffered by Carter and North Korea signed an agreement to that
end. They, North Korea, violated the deal.

At no time have we, the United States or South Korea threatened to invade
North Korea. North Korea has proven itself to be an aggressor nation.
by their actions. Their dictator is, to be blunt, crazy. But cunning in
as much as he can control his population through fear, starvation and
any other means he deems to work.

Letting him have a nuke is like giving a child fire to play with. Someone
is going to get burned badly. Our government, the U.S. is using every
means possible, other than war to solve the problem. Other than rewarding
the North Korean dictator for his actions. Which has happened in the
past. I have no idea how this is going to play out. If China can put any
pressure on North Korea it may work out okay. But they were defied
on the missiles, so I understand.

The one big worry over there should be Japan. If they decide their
security is in jeopardy, which they may well, they could very well change
their constitution and once again arm themselves. And everyone,
especially, you in the Philippines know what that could mean.

[velik_m]

i'm pretty sure the border is no longer on 38th parallel :huh

[Yonivore]

North Korea has every right to arm itself when its main rivals have 1000 times more nuke than they have lol...
With rights come responsibility. If the international community believes North Korea will be irresponsible with it's "right" to nuclear weapons, the international community can erase them from the face of the globe...if, for no other reason, than to prevent Kim Jong Mentally-Ill from nuking Japan, Hawaii, or South Korea.

I believe that's the current debate. Not whether North Korea can arm itself but, rather, what to do with North Korea if they do. Part of the diplomacy is to convince North Korea that it isn't in their own best interest to continue down the path they've chosen.

[DarkReign]

Sorry to shit on every drone's parade, but the reality is the "usual suspects" condemn the action (ie the West) while the "other guys" either support or abstain (you know, those other 2 veto holding nations China and Russia).

Regardless of what anyone here thinks of the situation, the reality is your opinion means less than the digital letters it is written in.

Either the USA invades, or nothing changes and the threat grows.

Why is the threat growing? Because the DPRK has sanctions against it which do not allow other nations to trade with it (rightfully so).

They are just positioning themselves to get more than they were before.

I understand why they do it (ie Manny). But I dont defend it (ie Manny). If I were in NK's position, I would probably be doing the same. No one wants to be treated like second rate 'nobodies'. Everyone wants respect, NK has obviously never had it, and only now are they being recognized as a player.

All in all, not too dumb on their part. USA wont do shit because God knows we dont have the resources. That, and the fact that we dont want to go into war against the Chineese (which is who would obviously help NK out).

Basically, NK has free reign to do as they wish, as long as they dont actually bomb anyone.

Brilliant if you ask me from an objective, removed opinion.

[Yonivore]

Sorry to shit on every drone's parade, but the reality is the "usual suspects" condemn the action (ie the West) while the "other guys" either support or abstain (you know, those other 2 veto holding nations China and Russia).

Regardless of what anyone here thinks of the situation, the reality is your opinion means less than the digital letters it is written in.

Either the USA invades, or nothing changes and the threat grows.

Why is the threat growing? Because the DPRK has sanctions against it which do not allow other nations to trade with it (rightfully so).

They are just positioning themselves to get more than they were before.

I understand why they do it (ie Manny). But I dont defend it (ie Manny). If I were in NK's position, I would probably be doing the same. No one wants to be treated like second rate 'nobodies'. Everyone wants respect, NK has obviously never had it, and only now are they being recognized as a player.

All in all, not too dumb on their part. USA wont do shit because God knows we dont have the resources. That, and the fact that we dont want to go into war against the Chineese (which is who would obviously help NK out).

Basically, NK has free reign to do as they wish, as long as they dont actually bomb anyone.

Brilliant if you ask me from an objective, removed opinion.
I love these overly-simplistic, in-the-moment, disregard all other approaches, either/or answers.

In fact, it's not between dealing with North Korea or invading them. In fact, there's been a regimen of controlling the kook in place for quite some time. His launching missiles is probably the result of Kim Jong Mentally-Ill feeling the pinch.

Call it the "Python Strategy"

The Times On-Line (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2261782,00.html) now reveals some of the “covert war” elements of s policy designed to squeeze the nukes out of Pyongyang.

The lede:


A PROGRAMME of covert action against nuclear and missile traffic to North Korea and Iran is to be intensified after last week’s missile tests by the North Korean regime.

Intelligence agencies, navies and air forces from at least 13 nations are quietly co-operating in a “secret war” against Pyongyang and Tehran.

It has so far involved interceptions of North Korean ships at sea, US agents prowling the waterfronts in Taiwan, multinational naval and air surveillance missions out of Singapore, investigators poring over the books of dubious banks in the former Portuguese colony of Macau and a fleet of planes and ships eavesdropping on the “hermit kingdom” in the waters north of Japan.

Few details filter out from western officials about the programme, [Probably because the New York Times is too busy working on leaks that damage the President's efforts in Iraq. --Yonivore] which has operated since 2003, or about the American financial sanctions that accompany it.

But together they have tightened a noose around Kim Jong-il’s bankrupt, hungry nation.

“Diplomacy alone has not worked, military action is not on the table and so you’ll see a persistent increase in this kind of pressure,” said a senior western official.

In a telling example of the programme’s success, two Bush administration officials indicated last year that it had blocked North Korea from obtaining equipment used to make missile propellant.

The Americans also persuaded China to stop the sale of chemicals for North Korea’s nuclear weapons scientists. And a shipload of “precursor chemicals” for weapons was seized in Taiwan before it could reach a North Korean port.
Note the date of the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI)– May 31, 2003. The “python embargo” was becoming a “python strategy.” The financial restriction element is also essential.

As for Japanese military options The London Times says:


The [Japanese] government is already committed to installing defensive Pac-3 Patriot missiles in co-operation with the Americans. But radical opinion in Japan has been fortified by Kim’s adventures.

“The vast majority of Japanese agree that we need to be able to carry out first strikes,” said Yoichi Shimada, a professor of international relations at Fukui Prefectural University.

“I spoke to Mr Abe earlier this week and he shares my opinion that for Japan, the most important step would be for Japan to have an offensive missile capability.”

Such talk causes severe concern to Washington, which has sheltered Japan under the umbrella of its nuclear arsenal since forging a security alliance after the second world war.
Read the entire article, it's very enlightening. It also shows we're not a poorly positioned with NoKo's insane dictator as many would like to believe.

[xrayzebra]

Well, Japan is doing what I hoped wouldn't happen. They are saying they are
thinking about making a pre-emptive strike. God help us all if it happens. China
is going to have to do something either to stop North Korea or defend them and
it isn't going to be pretty.

[TDMVPDPOY]

japan is goin to win once they send out their gundams :D

[xrayzebra]

My-o-my. Hasn't it gotten quite in here all of a sudden. Hey
dan, where are all your predictions.

[clambake]

If this guy is a kook, he's sure outsmarting our kook.

[xrayzebra]

If this guy is a kook, he's sure outsmarting our kook.

You better hope they aren't kooks. Japan is no laughing matter.
They are dead serious in my opinion. And Japan is not our
kook, if that is what you mean.

[Marklar MM]

Japan gonna go crazy on dem dam North Koreans.

[ChumpDumper]

What the hell is Japan going to bomb them with?

Playstations?

[Marklar MM]

What the hell is Japan going to bomb them with?

Playstations?

Their secret armies being amassed in the underground tunnels. They have mechs ya know. :elephant

http://www.theempire.com.au/images/2005-11-18/Full%20Metal%20Panic%20The%20Second%20Raid%20TFigs .jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

what im pissd off atm is the increasin price of petrol, north korea has jackshit resources, unless they target oil rigs in the ocean....but still there is no reason to push up oil prices

[Yonivore]

If this guy is a kook, he's sure outsmarting our kook.
I don't think so.

James Hackett (http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20060710-082052-8708r.htm) writes in today’s Washington Times on the deteriorating situation faced by North Korea’s regime.

The lede:


Why did North Korea launch seven ballistic missiles when the whole world urged it not to? The answer is that the Bush administration has been quietly applying pressure for the past nine months and is getting results. That pressure must be maintained until the regime changes or collapses.
Hackett argues for regime change. He thinks diplomatic and financial pressure put on North Korea has had effects.

North Korea is in a squeeze...Python Strategy.

[scott]

I love these overly-simplistic, in-the-moment, disregard all other approaches, either/or answers.

You would, since it sums up about 95% of your posts.

[scott]

There are four nations currently in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Yet only North Korea is of concern?

[Yonivore]

You would, since it sums up about 95% of your posts.
I've always considered my post to be thoughtful.

[jochhejaam]

There are four nations currently in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Yet only North Korea is of concern?
Definitely of the most concern, they have become the focal point of the entire Free World. If for no other reason than their leader is certifiably nuts.

[ChumpDumper]

I love these overly-simplistic, in-the-moment, disregard all other approaches, either/or answers.It was enough for you in Iraq.

[DarkReign]

I love these overly-simplistic, in-the-moment, disregard all other approaches, either/or answers.

In fact, it's not between dealing with North Korea or invading them. In fact, there's been a regimen of controlling the kook in place for quite some time. His launching missiles is probably the result of Kim Jong Mentally-Ill feeling the pinch....

Hey, Im not trying to pile on here, but sometimes simplicity is divine. No personal attacks.

What I said is true. You can muddy it up with all the BS. The bottom line is the DPRK isnt firing missles and enriching uranium for shits and giggles. Its a means to an end. The end is being a recognized player in the world.

Its like an entry pass into the ritzy club in NY. The reap the benefits by either force or diplomacy. Either way they win, unless there is war. Which they are more than willing to engage into.

All they need is a willing participant.

[Yonivore]

It was enough for you in Iraq.
Explain.

Because I seem to remember a cease-fire agreement in 1991, a full 12 years before hostilities were re-started, that Saddam Hussein violated at every turn.

I seem to remember over a dozen UNSC Resolutions with which Saddam Hussein never complied.

I recall years of diplomatic wrangling. Years of UN Inspectors -- along with the complaints of Iraqi obstruction.

I recall years of Iraqi agression agains coalition assets in the no-fly zones to which Saddam Hussein agreed.

I recall years of Oil for Food funds being diverted away from humanitarian purposes and into the opulence and military research of the Iraqi regime.

Don't pretend the March 2003 invasion was some half-baked, short-sighted resolution. It came after repeated diplomatic efforts and repeated insults by the Iraqi regime.

[clambake]

Then why base the 2003 invasion on lies and conspiracy?

[Yonivore]

Then why base the 2003 invasion on lies and conspiracy?
I don't know of any lies or conspiracies.

[jochhejaam]

No surprise here, N. Korea is protesting the U.S.'s latest missle defense test (it was successful). Geez, I wonder what may have precipitated the test?


North Korea condemns U.S. missile test

PYONGYANG, North Korea, Sept. 2 (UPI) -- North Korea Saturday called a U.S. missile defense test a threat and vowed to strengthen its defense measures in response.

North Korea's Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of the Fatherland released a statement saying the U.S. test, which was conducted Friday over the Pacific Ocean, "was aimed at attacking us and intercepting our missiles," the BBC reported Saturday.

The committee also called the United States the "the main culprit" in the threat of war on the Korean peninsula.

"It is a folly that the United States wields the truncheons of power in order to scare someone into submission ... This only leads the army and the people to firm up their determination to build up our self-defensive military deterrence," the statement said.

The U.S. Missile Defense Agency earlier announced an interceptor had successfully halted a target fired from Alaska.

"What we did today is a huge step in terms of our systematic approach to continuing to field, continuing to deploy and continuing to develop a missile defence system for the US, for our allies, our friends, our deployed forces around the world," said Lt. Gen. Henry Obering, director of the MDA.


http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060902-082144-1563r

[LaMarcus Bryant]

lets just nuke korea and get them out of the way