PDA

View Full Version : Penalty kick shootouts suck



ShoogarBear
07-09-2006, 05:40 PM
Really.

Why settle a soccer game by playing a completely different game that bears no relationship to soccer?

Why not just put up a set of parallel bars and settle it on the basis of gymnastics?

Trainwreck2100
07-09-2006, 06:14 PM
It really just becomes "guy shoots and goalie hopes to get lucky"

Claude Francois
07-09-2006, 06:23 PM
Really.

Why settle a soccer game by playing a completely different game that bears no relationship to soccer?

Why not just put up a set of parallel bars and settle it on the basis of gymnastics?


puritaines lÚchez mes boules franšaises

Phenomanul
07-09-2006, 10:15 PM
It really just becomes "guy shoots and goalie hopes to get lucky"


Ummmm no... there is a little more to it than that....

FromWayDowntown
07-09-2006, 11:14 PM
Ummmm no... there is a little more to it than that....

To some extent. They might still be shooting had Buffon not gotten lucky with Trezeguet hitting the crossbar and not getting a Zidane-like bounce. Just as Brazil got over in the 94 Final when Roberto Baggio sailed the ball over Taffarel's head.

There are certainly skills that apply to PK's, but it does seem odd to use a very limited sort of play to decide a match that is so well played and so hard fought. The traditions of soccer are about as ironclad as any and the powers-that-be have determined that PKs should be the ultimate tie-breaker. It's not feasible in a World Cup setting to have replays (like you might in the FA Cup) and I don't think you can ask those guys to just keep grinding out minutes without further substitutes or long, long breaks.

Horry For 3!
07-09-2006, 11:54 PM
I was telling my step-dad and brother before the game, if it doesn't get to Penalty kicks then France will win, if it gets there then Italy will win. I guess I was right. Italy's goalie > France's goalie.

Trainwreck2100
07-10-2006, 12:08 AM
I was telling my step-dad and brother before the game, if it doesn't get to Penalty kicks then France will win, if it gets there then Italy will win. I guess I was right. Italy's goalie > France's goalie.


The goalie's had nothing to do with the penalty kicks, it hit the crossbar for christ's sake

Horry For 3!
07-10-2006, 12:11 AM
Italy's goalie is still > France's goalie


I guess you missed all the bad ass saves he made during the game?????

Quadzilla99
07-10-2006, 12:29 AM
I agree it's like going to a field goal contest to settle football games or a home run contest to settle baseball games, but the games would last forever otherwise. What would be an alternate way to go?

polandprzem
07-10-2006, 03:54 AM
I was telling my step-dad and brother before the game, if it doesn't get to Penalty kicks then France will win, if it gets there then Italy will win. I guess I was right. Italy's goalie > France's goalie.
If the penalty is shooted the way it should be then the goalie got nothing to say.

cheguevara
07-10-2006, 11:23 AM
I hate penalty kicks also but they are exciting too, they are the most stressful and nerve-wrecking thing in any sport.

Plus, if you watch carefully, usually the team that has the upside by the end of the game + has the colder-blood usually wins. Which should be the case.

rascal
07-10-2006, 11:36 AM
I agree it's like going to a field goal contest to settle football games or a home run contest to settle baseball games, but the games would last forever otherwise. What would be an alternate way to go?
Go four against four and the goalies. And Keep alternating players with unlimited reserves until someone scores. Easier to get shots on goal with so few defenders to beat.

polandprzem
07-10-2006, 11:42 AM
I hate penalty kicks also but they are exciting too, they are the most stressful and nerve-wrecking thing in any sport.

Plus, if you watch carefully, usually the team that has the upside by the end of the game + has the colder-blood usually wins. Which should be the case.

Plus they are pissed off. Then you don't think about :" what will happen if I miss" . You just go and shoot it.
Plus - you can't let the golie get into your head - that frickin important.

tlongII
07-10-2006, 01:57 PM
I saw a lot of PK's this weekend. I went to see our local team, the Portland Timbers, play an exhibition against Coventry City of England on Saturday and it ended in PK's too.

Duncan21
07-10-2006, 02:07 PM
The goalie's had nothing to do with the penalty kicks, it hit the crossbar for christ's sake

If you are taking a penalty against barthez you are confident of scoring because barthez is small and not a good penalty saver, if you are taking one against buffon you can try and tell yourself that you will score but there will always be something telling you he might save this because he is big and a good penalty saver. that can put alot of players off

LEONARD
07-10-2006, 03:18 PM
They should do it like high school shootouts...35 yd line...5 seconds to get a shot off on the goalie. At least give the goalie a chance to make a play...

Kinda like NHL hockey...

scott
07-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Yesterday's PKs proved to me that Jans Lehman is the world's best goalkeeper right now.

Duncan21
07-11-2006, 06:41 AM
Yesterday's PKs proved to me that Jans Lehman is the world's best goalkeeper right now.

??? Buffon is the best goalkeeper in the world right now

1Parker1
07-11-2006, 02:18 PM
PK's deciding the outcome of soccer games is almost like FT's deciding the outcome of an NBA playoff game 7 :angel

David Bowie
07-11-2006, 02:27 PM
But what are they supposed to do, play into the night? I mean, as time goes on, the hardr it will be to score because players get tired. Although, I am all for making pks's a little more challenging.

hendrix
07-11-2006, 04:41 PM
PK shootout is under review by FIFA.
It really sucks.
One alternative suggested is that 1 of the 2 teams meeting in any elimination round, to have an advantage (in case of a draw), according with results in previous matches. It would be unfair somehow because of different opponents, but the penalty shootouts are worse.

ManuLoco
07-11-2006, 04:47 PM
FIFA is too conservative, they would never change pk shootouts to something else.
I think pks are not a matter of luck, it takes a lot of balls and skills to score a pk, but football is not about the best pk shooter but the best team.


Go four against four and the goalies. And Keep alternating players with unlimited reserves until someone scores. Easier to get shots on goal with so few defenders to beat.

I was thinking something similar the other day. My idea, similar to a pk shootout, but more football oriented:

* Each team has three chances to score goals (five would take too long).
* In each oportunity the team that defends has their two best defenders (who cannot be substituted) and goalkeeper; the team that attacks do it with their best forwards, 2 in each opportunity, 6 in total.
* The team that attacks kicks off in the midfield. If the ball goes out of bounds, the goalkepeer grabs the ball or a given time (let's say 30 seconds) expires then you lost your chance to score and the other team takes their turn.
* The team that defends can only commit a certain amount of fouls during each of the three oportunities. if they exceed the number of fouls, then the team attacking has a pk.
* Yellow cards, red cards, pks and offsides are still valid.

It would be similar to a counter attack. I think it's a pretty good idea. If you find any flaws then tell me.

Playing with this new rule to decide games you would be testing all the team, the goalkepper, the defenders and the forwards. The best team with the best combination of goalkeeper/defender/forward would win (For example, Argentina would have destroyed Germany with this rule and we would have been the wc champions :fro ).

scott
07-11-2006, 05:36 PM
??? Buffon is the best goalkeeper in the world right now

Buffon never got close to stopping any of those PKs. When Germany went to PKs vs. Argentina, Lehmann was spot on every single time.

Thats why I say Lehmann > Buffon

Winnipeg_Spur
07-11-2006, 06:06 PM
http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/colbert.jpg
"Overtime shootout, that's the soccer equivalent of deciding the NBA Finals by a game of HORSE!"

:lol

Phenomanul
07-11-2006, 06:29 PM
Go four against four and the goalies. And Keep alternating players with unlimited reserves until someone scores. Easier to get shots on goal with so few defenders to beat.


Actually FIFA is considering making a big change in the sport....

They are considering a reduction in the number of players per team from 11 to 10... of course this would open up the spacing and should allow for more scoring opportunities... but it would also take more of a physical toll on players...

Sounds good... but I don't know how many people would embrace this new concept.

Phenomanul
07-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Buffon never got close to stopping any of those PKs. When Germany went to PKs vs. Argentina, Lehmann was spot on every single time.

Thats why I say Lehmann > Buffon

There are two ways to look at it...

The better 'in game' goalie.... Buffon.

The better PK stopper... Lehmann (plus he was smart enough to use a cheat sheet :lol )

Overall... I'd still say it was Buffon.

ShoogarBear
07-11-2006, 06:34 PM
Well, if you're goign to talk about changes, how about eliminating the offside rule?

I'm hardly an expert on this, but what's its purpose? Would the offense really have such a huge advantage without offsides that individual goals would become meaningless? Seems to me it would open up things more and allow for different strategies in terms of trading offense for defense.

Phenomanul
07-11-2006, 06:39 PM
Well, if you're goign to talk about changes, how about eliminating the offside rule?

I'm hardly an expert on this, but what it's purpose? Would the offense really have such a huge advantage without offsides that individual goals would become meaningless? Seems to me it would open up things more and allow for different strategies in terms of trading offense for defense.


The offsides rule is the heart of defense though.... if you eliminate it, the offense gets more than a considerable advantage...

ShoogarBear
07-11-2006, 06:41 PM
What would the scores be like if you didn't have it?

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927
07-11-2006, 06:45 PM
0-0

Phenomanul
07-11-2006, 07:16 PM
What would the scores be like if you didn't have it?


It would be higher... that's all I know... YODA "to quantify it, hard would it be''...

ShoogarBear
07-11-2006, 08:07 PM
Well, that's the point. One of the ways to eliminate PK would be to reduce the number of ties, which I think is a result of low scoring.

Those of us who aren't experts joke about it, but the fact is at the WC level you can dominate the game and win 1-0, or be outplayed and yet win 1-0. Not much room for error either way.

I can see why you wouldn't want a bunch of 10-7 games, but if it gave us more 3-2, 4-3 games, I don't see how that would be bad.

resistanze
07-11-2006, 09:12 PM
It might actually cause lower scoring if offside is eliminated. The four/five defensive players would probably just fall back near the penalty box, since they'd be no point in them moving forward if the opposing team is allowed to run yards behind them waiting for passes (think of cherry picking).

scott
07-11-2006, 09:33 PM
There are two ways to look at it...

The better 'in game' goalie.... Buffon.

The better PK stopper... Lehmann (plus he was smart enough to use a cheat sheet :lol )

Overall... I'd still say it was Buffon.

You've got a point there... I'm just a bit partial to the fatherland.

Phenomanul
07-11-2006, 10:10 PM
You've got a point there... I'm just a bit partial to the fatherland.


Though I would probably add that I believe Kahn is a better 'in-game' goalie than Lehmann...

polandprzem
07-11-2006, 11:59 PM
Well, if you're goign to talk about changes, how about eliminating the offside rule?

I'm hardly an expert on this, but what's its purpose? Would the offense really have such a huge advantage without offsides that individual goals would become meaningless? Seems to me it would open up things more and allow for different strategies in terms of trading offense for defense.

I think the game would be more like ping-pong game then. Not much tactics whatsoever.

FIFA is not that much liberal, but there are some ideas like playing 10 on 10 or wide the goals.
Still the players have faster balls ( :) ) and better soccer shoes and the scorees haven't improve.

In NBA you have chcnges cause the defense was too tight. Now you can't even touch a player and the players can't show all the defense that they could in a reules that were well about 10-15 yrs ago.

In soccer there is not much you can do. You won't eliminate fouling. Even if the ruls will be more restrict (is it good word?). The refs will be giving red cards and so on then most of the games would change into Portuga;l _holland type of games where the ref have a problem what is red what is not.

And still in soccer they can't use instant replay in the games to decide. The Zidane thing was an exception and that;'s why their coach was pissed about taht. Cause it is notb in the book (instant replay)

nkdlunch
07-12-2006, 08:58 AM
Well, that's the point. One of the ways to eliminate PK would be to reduce the number of ties, which I think is a result of low scoring.

Those of us who aren't experts joke about it, but the fact is at the WC level you can dominate the game and win 1-0, or be outplayed and yet win 1-0. Not much room for error either way.

I can see why you wouldn't want a bunch of 10-7 games, but if it gave us more 3-2, 4-3 games, I don't see how that would be bad.

how about we eliminate the goalies and put blindfolds on the defense :rolleyes

My friend you have to understand soccer is like life, it's not perfect, its not fair and sometimes it's not even pretty. But you still love life right? But it's the sport that you can get most passionate about and that's why its the most popular.

It is what it is, it's not a sport that you can change the rules year in and year out like bball or football.