Robertas Javtokas NOT playing for spurs next year

[Beer is Good]

Even if he comes over, what can we expect from him?

[ChumpDumper]

Even if he comes over, what can we expect from him?Elsonesque production.

[ducks]

you can expect dunks not pump fakes

[Slinkyman]

Javtokas played against a lot of professionals in the Olympics.

Different rules, different game

[Mr. Body]

Same players.

[Obstructed_View]

Same players.
Then Oberto>>Duncan.

[Mr. Body]

So you're saying they weren't the same players? :lol

[Obstructed_View]

So you're saying they weren't the same players? :lol

No.


Different rules, different game

[Mr. Body]

We can go around in circles. Oberto was not better than Duncan in the Olympics, even if he struggled with the rules. Javtokas and Scola played against NBA caliber talent, period.

[Obstructed_View]

We can go around in circles. Oberto was not better than Duncan in the Olympics, even if he struggled with the rules. Javtokas and Scola played against NBA caliber talent, period.
I still can't imagine you'd be willing to just throw Javtokas out there to start 82 games at center with no backup. I'd like to have him here, too, but if you just throw him in the deep end of the pool to see if he sinks we'll be wishing for Rasho back by Christmas.

[Mr. Body]

Now I'm saying Javtokas should be starting?

[Obstructed_View]

Now I'm saying Javtokas should be starting?
You know, your little cryptic fucking posts have me pretty confused. How about you just fucking say what you mean to say? So far it sounds like you'd like to have Jav here, but not starting. Great, so would I. How does that happen?

Someone mentioned he's not necessarily worth throwing an assload of money at if there's nobody else at his position. He hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball. I agree with that, too.

[Mr. Body]

Listen To Me. I Think Elson Is A Crap Idea. I Hate That He Got Javtokas's Spot. It Makes No Sense To Me. You Cannot Tell Me Elson Is Better Than Him.

Capice?

[40 inch vertical]

Hey, on another board I saw that Jav does not have a Greek Contract (maybe not a reliable source) but it says that this came from Javtokas himself. It says that he claims to be without a contract. Now, it also says, for some reason, that he will not play in the NBA this season.

[V-2]

I read all Greek basketball articles and according to most of them, RJ is desperate to play for the Spurs. Today is the last day he can break his agreement with Panathinaikos and sign with the Spurs. He will have an option to pay his way out next summer, but dude's ready to play for SA.
He will sign his contract on Tuesday if he doesn't receive an offer from the Spurs FO today.

[furry_spurry]

This morning Javtokas confirmed by himself that he won't go to the NBA this season. But he said that those talks about Panathinaikos are bullsh*t and he has no contract yet.
source: daily news paper L.T.

http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?t=468&page=2

[SA210]

This morning Javtokas confirmed by himself that he won't go to the NBA this season


:pctoss

[velik_m]

didn't Panathinaikos report they have a deal with Lakovic before he signed with Barcelona?

[Mr. Body]

There are some rumblings that the Spurs tried to lowball Javtokas, he returned the contract unsigned. They then went for Elson.

Horrible, if true.

[AndRe-LT]

Say buy, to Javtokas guys, (for this season) it's official, he singed contract with Panatinaikos for 1y/1.5 mln. ! :bang

[furry_spurry]

Thanks for all your insights and updates. :(

[Mr. Body]

sitting nazr and rasho was a ploy and excuse to get rid of them and dump contracts, with as little public outcry as possible.....face facts front office has let us down, BIG.

I absolutely agree they've let us down, but stop short with thinking Nazr and Rasho were sabotaged.

[T Park]

There are some rumblings that the Spurs tried to lowball Javtokas, he returned the contract unsigned. They then went for Elson.

Horrible, if true.

:lol


face facts front office has let us down, BIG.


Other than the obvious untested and unknown Javtokas.


WHo should they have gotten?


Names please.

[polandprzem]

:lol



Other than the obvious untested and unknown Javtokas.


WHo should they have gotten?


Names please.

Willis Reed

[AFE7FATMAN]

Say buy, to Javtokas guys, (for this season) it's official, he singed contract with Panatinaikos for 1y/1.5 mln. ! :bang


Say bye-bye to Javtokas, this year and next, he will go the way of Luis Scola.
Spurs low-balled him. Maybe we can trade his and scola's rights and get something in return.

I guess they though he would play for CHEAP just to get in the NBA
and after all didn't they pick up his medical bills. He shoud be grateful NOT
They were protecting an investment.

I'm not going to join the Whinners Club YET however I think, hope, pray, that
a trade by the 21st will give me a little more hope of getting a 60+ win season again.

[AndRe-LT]

Javtokas told, to lithuanian newspaper, that Spurs offered him twice less, than Panatinaikos ! it will be around 1y/750.000 !
P.S pafetic spurs offseason !

[polandprzem]

!
P.S pafetic spurs offseason !

The worst I remember.

Duncan need to hang to some star like Zo did it last season to win a championship

[Borosai]

Wait wait wait. So the Spurs offered Elson $3mil/year, Butler $2.5mil/year, but only offered Javtokas less than a million a year? What the fuck? I mean, Javtokas is an unproven NBA player and all, but you can't tell me Elson and Butler are worth 3 times as much. That is lame as hell, and if true, will tarnish the Spurs drafting rep...I mean, who wants to be drafted by a team that will not sign you (first Scola and now Javtokas), or at least for more than a Euroleague team. Gross. :depressed

[strangeweather]

Javtokas told, to lithuanian newspaper, that Spurs offered him twice less, than Panatinaikos ! it will be around 1y/750.000 !
P.S pafetic spurs offseason !
I can't believe they didn't at least offer him the LLE.

[ducks]

Javtokas told, to lithuanian newspaper, that Spurs offered him twice less, than Panatinaikos ! it will be around 1y/750.000 !
P.S pafetic spurs offseason !


was that euro's or usa money
it matters because 1.6 million is over 2 million usa

and was it only one year?

[Beer is Good]

I can't believe they didn't at least offer him the LLE.

They offered him a kick in the nuts :lol

I don't understand it, but maybe the kid just isn't good enough. Or maybe he is but RC and Pop don't think he is. Who knows...

[ducks]

regular season . . .

8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 0.8 blocks

2 playoff games

5.5 points, 3 rebounds, 0 blocks


http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=ADE&temporada=E00

[Taking it to the Hole]

I'm sorry, I wanted Javtokas here too, but I rather go with players who have been playing in the NBA for some time and could adapt to our system much quicker. You guys forget, Javtokas would have to make a an adjustment to the NBA and we all saw what happened with Oberto last year. I really don't want a repeat of the same thing this year. We are much better off with possibly Elson and Butler rather than just Javtokas and Oberto. I don't think the Spurs wanted to pay Javtokas to the type of money he wanted because really he hasn't proven his worth in the NBA yet. How can you justify paying him more when he hasn't done anything? At least Elson and Butler have played and have market value, you can't compare Javtokas to them.

[AndRe-LT]

was that euro's or usa money
it matters because 1.6 million is over 2 million usa

and was it only one year?

He told, that spurs offered twice less ! PANO singed him 1.6mln. EUROS !

[furry_spurry]

I'm beginning to wonder if the Spurs split the MLE 3 ways- leaving Robertas with the part that went over the fence last. Then, when he was not too thrilled, they told him to wait another week and see if one of the other offers did not get matched and then maybe they might offer him more money. It explains why he was so surprised at the Spurs extending those two offer sheets and also why his agent said the Spurs did not make a reasonable offer. The Spurs do not intend to spend the LLE this year- all signings would come from the MLE and minimum contracts. If the Spurs wanted to pay Elson $3M and Robertas $800,000- no wonder he wasn't too happy. I think that when these things happen over and over, you have to look at the common denominator.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He told, that spurs offered twice less ! PANO singed him 1.6mln. EUROS !

And I'm sure his agent was completely truthful with him on that.

[Extra Stout]

sitting nazr and rasho was a ploy and excuse to get rid of them and dump contracts, with as little public outcry as possible.....face facts front office has let us down, BIG.
Why do you care about the players the front office gets? The NBA is fixed (according to you)... so if it says in the script the Spurs will win the championship, they will. It doesn't matter whether these acquisitions are good players; it matters only whether they can portray good players.

[objective]

regular season . . .

8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 0.8 blocks

2 playoff games

5.5 points, 3 rebounds, 0 blocks


http://www.euroleague.net/plantilla...E&temporada=E00

i don't see it noted, but to clarify, those are Elson's euroleague stats from when he was about Javtokas's age

[Mr. Body]

regular season . . .

8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 0.8 blocks

2 playoff games

5.5 points, 3 rebounds, 0 blocks


http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=ADE&temporada=E00

It looks like Elson has always disappeared in playoff games.

[ducks]

It looks like Elson has always disappeared in playoff games.

that is jav :fro NOT ELSON

[objective]

that is jav NOT ELSON

lol

Javtokas Euroleague playoff stats (top 16)

9.5 points - 10.0 rebounds - 2.6 blocks

Javtokas LKL finals stats (4 games)

15 points - 9 rebounds - 2.25 blocks

[objective]

more useless facts

Oberto's last euroleague playoff stats, 03/04 (top 16)

10.7 points, 5.0 rebounds, 0.2 blocks 22:33 minutes/seconds average

Javtokas top 16 minutes, 32:10 minutes/seconds average

[wildbill2u]

He told, that spurs offered twice less ! PANO singed him 1.6mln. EUROS !

At the average rate of the Eur against the Dollar for the past few days, that works out to over $2,000,000.

With the anticipated rise in the value of the Euro vs. the Dollar in the next year because of slowing US economy, etc. the value of his contract could be substantially more.

I don't know what the taxes in Greece would be vs. the percentage in the US on that type of income.

[Mr. Body]

lol

Javtokas Euroleague playoff stats (top 16)

9.5 points - 10.0 rebounds - 2.6 blocks

Javtokas LKL finals stats (4 games)

15 points - 9 rebounds - 2.25 blocks

ducks is a moron. can't even click a link and see it's Elson :rolleyes

I look at Javtokas's stats rising in pressure games and there's really nothing more to say. You couldn't find a more prepared player on the defensive side coming out of Europe and heading into his prime. Picking Elson is a collosal mistake, but... oh well. :huh

[40 inch vertical]

I'm sorry, I wanted Javtokas here too, but I rather go with players who have been playing in the NBA for some time and could adapt to our system much quicker. You guys forget, Javtokas would have to make a an adjustment to the NBA and we all saw what happened with Oberto last year. I really don't want a repeat of the same thing this year. We are much better off with possibly Elson and Butler rather than just Javtokas and Oberto. I don't think the Spurs wanted to pay Javtokas to the type of money he wanted because really he hasn't proven his worth in the NBA yet. How can you justify paying him more when he hasn't done anything? At least Elson and Butler have played and have market value, you can't compare Javtokas to them.

Neither Elson nor Butler have proven their worth in the NBA either, so that's not really a good argument to me. I think they just may have believed he's still too much of a project at this point, especially if he had trouble passing. I think they could live without the offense for a bit but not passing. Defensively, Javtokas is ready, read the "spur insider" post about him.

Everyone keeps going back to the argument about being a draft pick versus a free agent. They say that Javtokas should have taken the money and then tried to make more later. Maybe so, but remember that the argument cuts both ways. It's in the best interest of the Spurs to bring him over and develop his other skills as soon as possible when he is physically ready (which he obviously is). To delay is to waste a year of productivity. The balance is a respectable offer, which they apparently did not put forth.

[Mr. Body]

Javtokas would have accepted the Elson offer. He already had the Panathinaikos offer on the table and knew the SA offer would have been much higher.

Maybe the Spurs utterly lowballed him, gave him numbers far under the Pan contract. His side said "No," and expected the next step in negotiation. A step which never happened - SA turned around and offered a lot more to Elson instead.

There are a number of ways this might've worked out. Bottom line is, RJ was not asking for an exorbitant amount of money. The amount hadn't even been set yet. The Spurs did their "We're gonna be hardasses" thing and cut him out.

[ChumpDumper]

Neither Elson nor Butler have proven their worth in the NBA eitherLike it or not, Elson started 54 games on a WC playoff team.

[Mr. Body]

And then, in the playoffs, had one of the worst productivities of any player in the postseason. Denver was demonstratively worse when he was on the court.

[ChumpDumper]

Javtokas would have accepted the Elson offer. He already had the Panathinaikos offer on the table and knew the SA offer would have been much higher.

Maybe the Spurs utterly lowballed him, gave him numbers far under the Pan contract. His side said "No," and expected the next step in negotiation. A step which never happened - SA turned around and offered a lot more to Elson instead.

There are a number of ways this might've worked out. Bottom line is, RJ was not asking for an exorbitant amount of money. The amount hadn't even been set yet. The Spurs did their "We're gonna be hardasses" thing and cut him out.RJ didn't want to wait on the Spurs and the Spurs weren't going to wait on going with the two contracts they had already worked out.

Period.

[leemajors]

by trying to change the subject, and avoid my statements basic truths, you inadvertantly valided every word I said. :lol

you're an idiot. :lol

[Bruno]

I think that Spurs have chhosen Elson/Butler over Javtokas because they think that :
- Elson will be better next year than Javtokas.
- Butler has more upside than Javtokas

[Mr. Body]

RJ didn't want to wait on the Spurs and the Spurs weren't going to wait on going with the two contracts they had already worked out.

Period.

It's clear Panathinaikos forced his hand. They knew the RFAs would take 7 days, so induced a deadline. That's pretty clear. Javtokas wanted to play somewhere next year, so took the contract. That's pretty easy to understand.

[ChumpDumper]

And then, in the playoffs, had one of the worst productivities of any player in the postseason. Denver was demonstratively worse when he was on the court.Yes, we all know you think Javtokas > Elson.

You don't need to turn it into a grand conspiracy.

Negotiations didn't work out. Both parties went in other directions.

[Slinkyman]

And then, in the playoffs, had one of the worst productivities of any player in the postseason. Denver was demonstratively worse when he was on the court.

what the hell is productivities? did you just make that word up?

Denver's whole team stunk it up in the playoffs, mainly due to the team giving up.

[ChumpDumper]

It's clear Panathinaikos forced his hand. They knew the RFAs would take 7 days, so induced a deadline. That's pretty clear. Javtokas wanted to play somewhere next year, so took the contract. That's pretty easy to understand.I'm glad you finally understand.

[Mr. Body]

Yes, we all know you think Javtokas > Elson.

You don't need to turn it into a grand conspiracy.

Negotiations didn't work out. Both parties went in other directions.

No shit, Sherlock. Javtokas is over. But it's stupid to defend Elson as a choice because he's 'starting caliber.' That doesn't float.

[ChumpDumper]

He started 54 NBA games last season.

How many did Javtokas start?

[boutons_]

"54 games on a WC playoff team"

... with bigs Martin and Camby out for 30ish games each and Nene out all season. If those 3 had been available for 75+ games each, Elson would have been as invisible as his first years in the league.

[ChumpDumper]

"54 games on a WC playoff team"

... with bigs Martin and Camby out for 30ish games each and Nene out all season. If those 3 had been available for 75+ games each, Elson would have been as invisible as his first years in the league.No shit.

But he started 54 games.

[Mr. Body]

Okay, Mr. "54 games on a WC playoff team". Color me real fucking impressed.

[boutons_]

That doesn't mean he's an NBA-starter-quality center.

He avg'd less than 2 qtrs/game, and was 5 and 5.

[ChumpDumper]

That doesn't mean he's an NBA-starter-quality center.

He avg'd less than 2 qtrs/game, and was 5 and 5.:lmao

What were our "NBA-starter-quality centers" averaging?

[Mr. Body]

:lmao

What were our "NBA-starter-quality centers" averaging?

Not a huge selling point for your buddy, comparing them slightly favorably with Nazr/Rash.

Enough to get us knocked out in the 2nd round. Elson did enough to get knocked out of the 1st. Swell.

[ChumpDumper]

Enough to get us knocked out in the 2nd round.:lmao again! Elson would've seen the floor in the second round against Dallas.


What were you expecting out of Javtokas?

20 and 10?

[Mr. Body]

Nope. But the prospect of some talent at least.

Look at Elson's playoff stats. I dare you. He never would've seen the floor in Round 2.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm personally not crazy about Elson.
He never would've seen the floor in Round 2.Of course the Spurs thikn he would've. Why else are we signing him?

[Mr. Body]

Ok, then why harsh on Javtokas so much?

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, then why harsh on Javtokas so much?Who's harshing?

He wanted more money.

[Mr. Body]

We'll never know. My thoughts are, if he was given LLE-type numbers, then that was too little and the Spurs lowballed. I'll go to my grave thinking they should've gone for Jav and Butler, splitting it even. Elson might've even still been there after 7 days.

If we get Butler, who I like most of all, this is all moot.

[ChumpDumper]

Go to your grave?

You need another hobby. You take this way too seriously.

[Mr. Body]

Little do you know I'm terminal in about three weeks.

Ah, we're all given to hyperbole on the forums...

[40 inch vertical]

I think that Spurs have chhosen Elson/Butler over Javtokas because they think that :
- Elson will be better next year than Javtokas.
- Butler has more upside than Javtokas

Why do you think Butler has more upside than Javtokas? Defensively, I don't agree. Offensively, probably - but with the right coach, I think Jav could do decently. Athletically, I'd give Javtokas the edge and he's demonstrated he's willing to work hard, so I'd say he has the higher upside.

[bigdog]

Why do you think Butler has more upside than Javtokas? Defensively, I don't agree. Offensively, probably - but with the right coach, I think Jav could do decently. Athletically, I'd give Javtokas the edge and he's demonstrated he's willing to work hard, so I'd say he has the higher upside.


give Javtokas the EDGE?? please, hes a much better athlete than Butler.

[Bruno]

Why do you think Butler has more upside than Javtokas?

Bulter is 21 years old, Javtokas 26.
And it's not what I think : I don't know Javtokas, Butler well enough to judge who has the most upside. I say that I think that it's what the FO think.

[Slinkyman]

Why do you think Butler has more upside than Javtokas? Defensively, I don't agree. Offensively, probably - but with the right coach, I think Jav could do decently. Athletically, I'd give Javtokas the edge and he's demonstrated he's willing to work hard, so I'd say he has the higher upside.

Jak is 26, Butler is 21, plus Butler has NBA experience.

[40 inch vertical]

give Javtokas the EDGE?? please, hes a much better athlete than Butler.

Yeah, okay, more than an edge ... just countering the argument that Butler had more upside in the other thread.

[ChumpDumper]

Butler is already ahead of Javtokas offensively. I don't ever see RJ scoring 22 in an NBA game. Defensively I'd certainly have to give the edge to RJ. We'll have to find out if Butler is coachable in that regard.

[40 inch vertical]

Jak is 26, Butler is 21, plus Butler has NBA experience.


Having NBA experience doesn't mean a whole lot, look at Manu. Many believe that Javtokas' skills would translate very well to the NBA. The age, yeah that's something but not something that tips the scales in his favor I don't think.

[Slinkyman]

Having NBA experience doesn't mean a whole lot, look at Manu. Many believe that Javtokas' skills would translate very well to the NBA. The age, yeah that's something but not something that tips the scales in his favor I don't think.

NBA expreience does mean alot, manu is the exception not the rule. How many Euros have come and gone? Also alot of people believe Scola's skill translate to the NBA, doesn't mean they do. Jak couldn't have become a solid roll player but we don't know that for sure.

IMO it doesn't matter either way because If the spurs would have signed Jak he would have played the roll Oberto played this season and wouldn't have seen much playing time. To me it seems the spurs needed help now not next season which is why they went with butler/elson.

[40 inch vertical]

NBA expreience does mean alot, manu is the exception not the rule. How many Euros have come and gone? Also alot of people believe Scola's skill translate to the NBA, doesn't mean they do. Jak couldn't have become a solid roll player but we don't know that for sure.

IMO it doesn't matter either way because If the spurs would have signed Jak he would have played the roll Oberto played this season and wouldn't have seen much playing time. To me it seems the spurs needed help now not next season which is why they went with butler/elson.

For players like Elson and Butler, I don't think it's as big a deal (having NBA experience). There is a reason they were where they were on the depth charts. Butler may have upside but we'll see if he pans out. I have my reservations.

Regarding being able to step in and help, Jav would have been able to do that as a backup (which is all we're really getting anyway ... if we get them). It's center by committee no matter what unless we make a trade.

Javtokas is also the exception rather than the rule. He is far from the prototypical european center. He is extremely athletic, even post accident. If he had half an offensive game, he'd be a star at any level. I, for one, had hope that he could develop that here but it's not going to happen, at least not this year.

[40 inch vertical]

Can anyone confirm that the Javtokas signing with the Greek team has occurred. I know that sounds like a silly question but first you had a statement attributed to Javtokas that said the talk of a contract with them was bullshit and I can't find an announcenment on their website which appears to be updated daily (maybe I'm looking in the wrong place). Of course, yes, every other website in Europe has him on their roster for this year. Anyone know of a confirmation by the team?

[Obstructed_View]

At some point before or during the negotiations, the Spurs lost Nazr. It's possible that Robertas and his agents thought that he had a chance of starting and either started talking about PT or about getting starter type money. That would have soured the Spurs immediately because the last thing they need is a guy thinking he should start and barking about it all year. People that know Rasho know he was extraordinarily pissed at not getting playing time, but he never said a word about it or disrupted the locker room. The offers to Elson and Butler may have been designed to put Robertas in his place, so to speak. If he overreacts to it, there's not much anyone can do.

[AndRe-LT]

NOW it's official , Javtokas is PAO player from now on, agent confirmed that, and told that Spurs have no chance to deal with him ! (this year) :depressed

[wildbill2u]

Sometimes you simply have an unmakeable deal. Scola is one examle. He's not willing to make his buyout and play for the salary the Spurs think he is worth to them.

Javtokas got a hell of a raise from the Greek team and will probably do well there. The money was obviously the major factor in his decision, not coming to play in the NBA.

Spurs obviously didn't want to match or beat the Greek offer based on their estimation of Javtokas skill sets coming into the league as a rookie, his age, and what other factors they may have considered. I doubt they made the decision lightly.

[waly.mg]

Check this New:



The Washington Wizards signed free agent forward Darius Songaila to a five-year, $23 million dollar deal, Songaila's agent, Mark Bartlestein, told ESPN.com.

Songaila's deal includes a player option for the fifth year of the contract.

Songaila is a skilled four man with a sweet outside shot and the ability to go inside and bang. The move means that it's now very likely that the Wizards' first-round pick, Olexsiy Pecherov, will return to Europe for another season, a source close to the Wizards confirmed to ESPN.com.

The moves use the up the majority of the Wizards' mid-level exception, with Songaila's deal taking up around $4 million of Washington's $5.135 million mid-level exception.

Give me a break

And we are talking about, 10 millions 3 years for Javtokas or Scola

If Songaila Deserves this Contract, Javtokas and Scola more than that, its ridiculous

Javtokas is a starter in Lithuania, and Songaila is a Role Player

In all the FIBA´s Chamionships Songaila Never Exist

Songaila vs USA in Athens 7 Points 3 Rebounds

Vs Italy in Semis: & points and 7 RB

Vs USA in the Bronze Medal Match: 5 Points and 4 rebounds


HAHAHAHAHAHA

23 MILLIONS, VERY FUNNY

[ChumpDumper]

See what happens when you play a couple of years in the NBA?

You get paid.

[ducks]

this is also where wizards have no cap room

[ducks]

jeffries is also think of bolting next year...

[timvp]

See what happens when you play a couple of years in the NBA?

You get paid.

:lol :tu

Take what you can. Come to the States. Play well and you'll never have to worry about money again.

[Obstructed_View]

If Songaila Deserves this Contract...
And *poof* goes your argument. He doesn't. That's why the Wizards suck and the Spurs contend for championships.

[AFE7FATMAN]

AndRe-LT

Javtokas told, to lithuanian newspaper, that Spurs offered him twice less, than Panatinaikos ! it will be around 1y/750.000 !
P.S pafetic spurs offseason !


Ducks Was that euro's or usa money

wILDbILL2u
With the anticipated rise in the value of the Euro vs. the Dollar in the next year because of slowing US economy, etc. the value of his contract could be substantially more.


Please don't forget that the better players, Jav was listed as the # 3 Center in Europe, get an apartment and a car as part of their perks, also I believe
his season will only be about 40 games.

[ALVAREZ6]

Butler is a 2 year NBA Veteran who averaged 5.3 points last year with the New York Knicks.
How the fuck does 2 years make you a veteran?

[Beer is Good]

How the fuck does 2 years make you a veteran?
Two years are better than 0 years.

[waly.mg]

The most pathetic thing is that

With full MLE and the LLE, we can´t sign a solid center

we made Offers to the 3rd Center of the Knicks and Denver