Robertas Javtokas NOT playing for spurs next year

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=93079F71-137D-4/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=93079F71-137D-4BD6-9733-F28C99B4B25E

Spurs Make Offers
LAST UPDATE: 7/12/2006 1:45:14 PM
Posted By: Mike Klein
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.woai.com.

The San Antonio Spurs made offers to two restricted free agents this morning, and will not have the services of 2001 draft pick Robertas Javtokas for the upcoming season.

Javtokas' agent Herb Rudoy told News 4 WOAI that the Spurs made offers to New York's Jackie Butler and Denver's Francisco Elson.

Javtokas immediately signed a deal to play with Panathinaikos Greece in the European League. Rudoy told News 4 that Javtokas was "surprised" at the Spurs decision, but that he got a great contract from Panathinaikos.

Butler is a 2 year NBA Veteran who averaged 5.3 points last year with the New York Knicks. He's only 21 years old and played in the CBA for one year before going to the Knicks. He went undrafted after declaring for the draft after his final year at Coastal Christian Academy in Virginia. Butler is 6-10 260 pounds.

Elson is a 4 year NBA veteran who also played 4 seasons in Spain before coming to the NBA. He averaged 4.9 points for the Nuggets last season.

NBA rules state that both the Nuggets and the Knicks will have seven days to match the Spurs offer. If the offers are matched they can retain the services of those players. Tune into News 4 WOAI at 5pm and 6pm for the latest Spurs News.

[gmanrulz]

Spurs Make Offers
LAST UPDATE: 7/12/2006 1:45:14 PM
Posted By: Mike Klein
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.woai.com.

The San Antonio Spurs made offers to two restricted free agents this morning, and will not have the services of 2001 draft pick Robertas Javtokas for the upcoming season.

Javtokas' agent Herb Rudoy told News 4 WOAI that the Spurs made offers to New York's Jackie Butler and Denver's Francisco Elson.

Javtokas immediately signed a deal to play with Panathinaikos Greece in the European League. Rudoy told News 4 that Javtokas was "surprised" at the Spurs decision, but that he got a great contract from Panathinaikos.

Butler is a 2 year NBA Veteran who averaged 5.3 points last year with the New York Knicks. He's only 21 years old and played in the CBA for one year before going to the Knicks. He went undrafted
after declaring for the draft after his final year at Coastal Christian Academy in Virginia. Butler is 6-10 260 pounds.

Elson is a 4 year NBA veteran who also played 4 seasons in Spain before coming to the NBA. He averaged 4.9 points for the Nuggets last season.

NBA rules state that both the Nuggets and the Knicks will have seven days to match the Spurs offer. If the offers are matched they can retain the services of those players. Tune into News 4 WOAI at 5pm and 6pm for the latest Spurs News.

[dimsah]

:pctoss Come on Jackie Butler!!

[Mr. Body]

What an utterly stupid decision.

[1Parker1]

:pctoss Elson or Butler will be our f***ing starters??? With Horry and Oberto as our backups?

Call me crazy, but I'd almost rather have Nazr or Rasho instead :depressed

[K-State Spur]

butler at least is intriguing. he's got some talent and if he has the drive along with the smarts to realize that playing next to duncan can really jumpstart his career, this could work.

but i'd rather have Javtokas than Elson every day of the week and 3 times on game nights...

[dimsah]

Come on Nuggets. Match the offer!

[Rynospursfan]

Well That would suck balls. Hope its not true.

[Mr. Body]

This offseason is officially a disaster in my mind. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it looks like they have no clue.

[King]

Well, so much for that.

[ChumpDumper]

I like Butler, but if he money is the same I'd take Javtokas over Elson.

[picnroll]

Any word on the length of Javtokas contract?

[Mr. Body]

NY matches, no Butler.

THEY PICKED ELSON OVER JAVTOKAS.

[1Parker1]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45983

[El_Mago]

Why would we want both?

Actually, I like Butler, but why would we want Elson....

Let's dish out the other half of the MLE to Ariza or Woods....

Butler (definitely)....now Ariza or Woods, and get rid of the thoughts of getting Elson.....

Javtokas....oh well, gotta wait another season.

[SenorSpur]

Wtf?

[cheguevara]

Goddam!!!!!!!

what the fuck is the point of drafting internationals if you wanna pay them peanuts or not sign them at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fuck

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I guess Javtokas sucks again.

[picnroll]

Butler and Woods PLLLEEEASSEEE

[Mr. Body]

How much did Javtokas want?

If I were him, I'd tell them to FUCK OFF and never call again. Was there ever a more perfect situation to give him a try?

[Mr. Peabody]

I like the offer to Butler. I was really hoping to see what Javtokas could do in the NBA. I guess the Spurs felt that he really wouldn't add much to the team this year.

So we may end up with both Butler and Elson. Interesting.

[SenorSpur]

Why would we want both?

Actually, I like Butler, but why would we want Elson....

Let's dish out the other half of the MLE to Ariza or Woods....

Butler (definitely)....now Ariza or Woods, and get rid of the thoughts of getting Elson.....

Javtokas....oh well, gotta wait another season.

Exactly. Regardless, I thought they idea was to bring over Javtokas and get him integrated. What the hell is going on?

[Mr. Peabody]

NY matches, no Butler.

THEY PICKED ELSON OVER JAVTOKAS.

Do we even know what the Spurs offered?

[Winnipeg_Spur]

It sounds like the Spurs wanted Javtokas to take the LLE and tried to force his hand but it backfired on them.

[Leetonidas]

I don't understand why Robertas immediately signed a contract when he heard the Spurs offered Butler and Elson. Can he not wait?

[Mr. Body]

Do we even know what the Spurs offered?

It doesn't matter. NYK has indicated they want to keep Butler.

I think Elson might be RFA, too? Who cares on him.

So we MIGHT get Elson next year. No Javtokas? Holy shit.

[picnroll]

I wonder if the Spurs cut off Javtokas without even knowing if Butler or, God forbid, Elson would accept the offer. Spurs can't be that stupid, right?

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

This doesn't bother me too much, I wasn't a big fan of his. I'd rather find a big man via trade during the season, when we know what big men are on the trading block.

[Mr. Body]

I don't understand why Robertas immediately signed a contract when he heard the Spurs offered Butler and Elson. Can he not wait?

He's telling them to go fuck themselves. It's the Scola Special. The Spurs are turning into horrible negotiators.

[RON ARTEST]

damn, what the fuck are they doing?

[Lebowski Brickowski]

What utter BS.

OBERTO STARTS
ELSON AND HORRY BACK UP

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Now, everyone needs to cross their fingers hoping Mahinmi tears it up in summer league

[yavozerb]

I don't understand why Robertas immediately signed a contract when he heard the Spurs offered Butler and Elson. Can he not wait?

I'm thinking the spurs gave a max offer that maybe was not his liking..I would quickly sign also!!

[Leetonidas]

He's telling them to go fuck themselves. It's the Scola Special. The Spurs are turning into horrible negotiators.

It's a big time prick move by him especially since the Spurs foot the bill to put his ass back together after his crashed. What a dick.

[GrandeDavid]

You gotta be f-ing kidding me!!! What a shithole offseason thus far!!! Damnit!!!! Oh well, at least the Spurs won't be burdoned with championship expectations and will be able to try to fly under the radar. Shit!

[boutons_]

"Javtokas was "surprised" at the Spurs decision, but that he got a great contract from Panathinaikos."

I'd say that was a euphemism for pissed off and disappointed.

How many years is Robertas' Panathinaikos contract? amount?

I'm in no way a GM, but fuck it, not getting Robertas TODAY! is a fucking huge disappointment.

So now we got $$$ committed in RFA offers, and what if NEITHER of those guys comes?

Robertas probably feels dicked over, teased, toyed with, cheated down in $$$ by the Spurs.

I hope Kori and LJ are enjoying their nap! :lol

[picnroll]

damn, what the fuck are they doing?
Going after Oden.

[strangeweather]

Well, that's one move that potentially makes sense -- Butler.

Elson completely mystifies me, but at least they haven't put all their eggs in that basket.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Time to get rid of my sig. ARGH!!!!! WE NEED JAVTOKAS!

[Mr. Body]

Javtokas will never be a Spur. If they didn't want him this summer, they never will.

They must think they're destined to get Oden per the 87/97/07 rule.

[violentkitten]

:lol

[Mr. Peabody]

So if we get both Elson and Butler, who starts?

[SpursWoman]

They must think they're destined to get Oden per the 87/97/07 rule.


:lol
















*sigh*

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Wow, shocking.

So we're going after both of them not just one? That's cool I guess. I would have loved to have one NBA guy (Francisco) and then Javtokas off the bench. But maybe the front office knows something we don't know.

[degenerate_gambler]

After seeing highlights of him posted on here, I was kinda excited to see him bring that energy and aggressiveness to the Spurs.

I usually agree w/the FO and their strategy/thinking, but blowing this guy off and pursuing Elson instead is just baffling. I don't get it.

[Leetonidas]

So if we get both Elson and Butler, who starts?

Butler I hope. For some reason, I think that New York will be hesitant to match the offer.

[Leetonidas]

Wow, shocking.

So we're going after both of them not just one? That's cool I guess. I would have loved to have one NBA guy (Francisco) and then Javtokas off the bench. But maybe the front office knows something we don't know.

I was thinking the Spurs were trying to get a center to start and sign Javtokas to come off the bench. I guess when he saw the Spurs offered two centers he assumed the Spurs didn't want him and signed a contract.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Elson is a nice player guys.

He plays like Kevin Willis minus the alligator arms and about 10 years.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

The only vague memory of Jackie Butler I have is watching a knick game and watching a nice post move by a guy that looked like Eddy Curry...and realizing it wasn't him, it was some other kid (who I know think was Butler).



I guess he's alright?

[SenorSpur]

This doesn't bother me too much, I wasn't a big fan of his. I'd rather find a big man via trade during the season, when we know what big men are on the trading block.

BULLSHIT! Isn't it clear that the Spurs do not have attractive tradeable commodities

Despite whatever the Knicks response was on Butler, they needed to have secured Javtokas' services.

Now they're fucked. Whatever happens from here and even if they somehow sign Elson (God forbid), they simply CANNOT go into the season with what they have.

[picnroll]

Butler I hope. For some reason, I think that New York will be hesitant to match the offer.
First Butler has to accept the offer.

[strangeweather]

So if we get both Elson and Butler, who starts?
Oberto?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I was thinking the Spurs were trying to get a center to start and sign Javtokas to come off the bench. I guess when he saw the Spurs offered two centers he assumed the Spurs didn't want him and signed a contract.

That's what I was assuming as well.

I'm sure there was some sort of communication b/w the Spurs and Javtokas about what was going on...so he didn't 'assume' anything. But maybe they told him "we would like to get one of these two, we're not sure we will though so we are signing both to offer sheets and will most likely get one and possibly get both so just be aware for some reason we get both we may not be able to sign you" sort of deal...


Maybe Javtokas just didn't want to take the chance, and felt someone slapped in the face.

[Mr. Body]

I can only hope in my wildest dreams RC is frantically calling Javtokas, Javtokas's agent and Javtokas's family trying to tell him not to sign that contract, for God's sake-- there's still the LLE or something.

[yavozerb]

I still am not sure how could the knicks match an offer if they are so much over the cap already??

[spur219]

Stupid decision.

[Leetonidas]

First Butler has to accept the offer.

I think he will. Playing next to Duncan after going undrafted is a huge opportunity, and who the hell wants to play in NY?

I think people are overreacting a bit though. Yeah Tim is the only good big man we have, but outside of the big men, our team is damn good. We just need some to stick in the middle who can rebound.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

First Butler has to accept the offer.
Yeah, I'm a little confused by this article. It reads like they've already signed them to offer sheets, but all it's actually said is that they've made offers to these players.

[Leetonidas]

I still am not sure how could the knicks match an offer if they are so much over the cap already??

They can only have one more player under contract I think.

[strangeweather]

BULLSHIT! Isn't it clear that the Spurs do not have attractive tradeable commodities
I don't think that's the case at all. The Spurs couldn't get a deal closed by today, so they had to move forward with their best option. If they land Elson and/or Butler, those guys can't be part of a trade for a while, but the Spurs can still move forward with any trades involving anyone else.

For example, if the right deal came along, they could ship out Oberto as part of a deal for another big man and plant Elson on the inactive list.

[to21]

"it's the end of the world as we know it...." :depressed
<r.e.m. song>

[strangeweather]

They can only have one more player under contract I think.
Actually, they would have to cut someone with a guaranteed contract to match the offer.

[Leetonidas]

Well, if the Spurs did get both Elson and Butler, I wouldn't mind Butler starting with Elson backing him up.

[boutons_]

In many Euro countries, contract signers have 7-days or so to back out of a contract.

But I can't imagine that RC/Pop are so stupid and out of it as to be surprised that Javtokas signed elsewhere.

fuck, piss, shit, damn, cunt, motherfucker, cocksucker, dubya, dickhead, Repug, etc, etc, etc.

[shaggy17]

Well I for once am going to put my faith in these guys. I have no clue what they are doing but well see what happens. My girl Kate Hudson is on TRL so thats gonna help me cope with this shit

[Leetonidas]

Actually, they would have to cut someone with a guaranteed contract to match the offer.

If the contract is guaranteed, how can they do that? That being said though, I don't think they will match the offer. I'm glad the Spurs went after him though.

[Mr. Body]

Shag- TRL is happening downstairs as we speak (I work in the MTV building). You should have heard the screams 11 floors up when Beyonce was on.

/OT

I'm so pissed and despairing I can't get work done.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

BULLSHIT! Isn't it clear that the Spurs do not have attractive tradeable commodities

Despite whatever the Knicks response was on Butler, they needed to have secured Javtokas' services.

Now they're fucked. Whatever happens from here and even if they somehow sign Elson (God forbid), they simply CANNOT go into the season with what they have.

Why can't the Spurs start the season with what they have?? We have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Finley, and that alone should secure a top 4 spot in the west.

Javtokas' is greatly overrated by Spurs fans, right now as it stands the Spurs are soft at the C position, but Duncan is very capable of filling that roll until the right guy comes along.

[strangeweather]

If the contract is guaranteed, how can they do that?
They have to pay the player his salary even though he isn't on their roster -- unless another team signs the player off waivers and assumes the contract.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

We need Danny Ferry back. WTF is Presti thinking?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I'm not sure if it's possible...

But I think the only way we don't get these guys now is if ANOTHER team (not there teams) make a better offer, no? Denvers seems set with there bigs, and NY is salary cap fucked.

[smeagol]

MB is right. Holt is fiscally conservative *cough* cheap SOB! *cough*

[MannyIsGod]

As we talked about in the thread last night, I don't understand the move for Elson. I really don't.

However, I will say this. Every article (I'm not saying I agree with them) that has been written by Ludden this offseason has stated that they weren't even sure Robertas could crack the rotation. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Spurs really aren't that high on him. If they're willing to go after Fransisco Elson over him then I'm not sure what to say.

I would definetly rather have Robertas, but thats pretty much shot. It sounds like there was some behind the scenes stuff going on that nobody understands. It really sucks though, I was amped about the guy.

As far as Butler goes, bring that kid on down! I'm very excited about the prospect of seeing him in a Spurs jersey. Hopefully that happens.

[boutons_]

"start the season with what they have"

Why? Why? Why? Why? Tim is our entire front court.

I doubt Bonner is gonna play down low and/or turn himself into a top rebounder.

[Mr. Body]

Why can't the Spurs start the season with what they have?? We have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Finley, and that alone should secure a top 4 spot in the west.

Javtokas' is greatly overrated by Spurs fans, right now as it stands the Spurs are soft at the C position, but Duncan is very capable of filling that roll until the right guy comes along.

No offense, but read what you're saying...

We are extremely soft at the C position. In fact, we really don't have one. Javtokas is strong, athletic, and aggressive.

No one is overrating him. He's a good defensive center who rebounds and blocks shots. This is simple math for the denizens of this board, but must be high level calculus for Presti, R.C. et al.

[leemajors]

It doesn't matter. NYK has indicated they want to keep Butler.

I think Elson might be RFA, too? Who cares on him.

So we MIGHT get Elson next year. No Javtokas? Holy shit.

New York already has 15 players under contract, i believe.

[mrose31]

why are we not going after wright or ely instead these guys I believe are not even restricted. These are not that good either but better than what Elson and Butler for sure.

[strangeweather]

why are we not going after wright or ely instead these guys I believe are not even restricted. These are not that good either but better than what Elson and Butler for sure.
Ely is restricted.

[MannyIsGod]

No offense, but read what you're saying...

We are extremely soft at the C position. In fact, we really don't have one. Javtokas is strong, athletic, and aggressive.

No one is overrating him. He's a good defensive center who rebounds and blocks shots. This is simple math for the denizens of this board, but must be high level calculus for Presti, R.C. et al.Javaktovas wasn't going to start. Have you read one thing Ludden has put out this summer saying the Spurs thought he could start? Doesnn't it make you wonder one bit just how good the kid is when on a centerless team a center can't start?

Kurt is absolutely right. Spurs fans on this board have overrated him. You can ask anyone who's watched a game of his as opposed to the highlight reel that was posted.

I wanted him to come, but I am pretty damn sure Butler > Javaktovas.

[yavozerb]

I am not worried due to the fact that our core players will be there and these role players we are getting all amped up about!!!

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

No offense, but read what you're saying...

We are extremely soft at the C position. In fact, we really don't have one. Javtokas is strong, athletic, and aggressive.

No one is overrating him. He's a good defensive center who rebounds and blocks shots. This is simple math for the denizens of this board, but must be high level calculus for Presti, R.C. et al.

Duncan is one of the best players in the league, and yes he can play Center. Javtokas is an unproven player who has 0 offensive firepower.

[1Parker1]

How tall is Butler?

[Mr. Body]

Javaktovas wasn't going to start. Have you read one thing Ludden has put out this summer saying the Spurs thought he could start? Doesnn't it make you wonder one bit just how good the kid is when on a centerless team a center can't start?

Kurt is absolutely right. Spurs fans on this board have overrated him. You can ask anyone who's watched a game of his as opposed to the highlight reel that was posted.

I wanted him to come, but I am pretty damn sure Butler > Javaktovas.


I'm not saying Butler isn't better than Javtokas. Although at this point Butler has barely had any NBA experience, either. Saying he's starting material is a bit daft.

What I WAS saying, is that Javtokas is by far a better prospect for the money than Francisco Elson. That's the truly bizarre, upsetting, unsettling, and stupid part. It's not a factor of overrating -- Javtokas is accomplished in Europe, has great tools, is 4 years younger, etc. Seems utterly stupid to me.

[MannyIsGod]

6-10

[yavozerb]

I can live with this line up: TP, Manu, Bowen, TD, Butler..

[SenorSpur]

Why can't the Spurs start the season with what they have?? We have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Finley, and that alone should secure a top 4 spot in the west.

Javtokas' is greatly overrated by Spurs fans, right now as it stands the Spurs are soft at the C position, but Duncan is very capable of filling that roll until the right guy comes along.

Sure, the Spurs can start the season with what they have - if they're gunning for 4th or 5th place finish. This team already did not have the right front line parts to win a championship. Now the situation has gotten worse.

Again, the idea is to improve the talent on the team. Simply dumping Rasho's contract, while a good move financially, doesn't do it. Making an offer to a scrub, like Elson, doesn't do it.

Duncan simply cannot be saddled with the responsibilities of playing the 5 spot exclusively. Unless, of course, the Spurs ante up for a big-time rebounding partner like Murphy or Evans and we all know both will be too expensive for the Spurs budget.

Maglorie is now the ugly girl at the bar. It's 2:00AM and he's starting to look very attractive.

[boutons_]

"Javaktovas wasn't going to start."

OK, not before Christmas, but after Christmas?

[T Park]

Im absolutely positively shocked.....

[yavozerb]

Until we get the length of contracts and how much the contract were it is hard to argue tith these deals??Maybe Elson only signed for 1-2 years and maybe JAv. wanted 4-5 year contract!!ALot of maybe's at this point an no facts

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Sure, the Spurs can start the season with what they have - if they're gunning for 4th or 5th place finish. This team already did not have the right front line parts to win a championship. Now the situation has gotten worse.

Again, the idea is to improve the talent on the team. Simply dumping Rasho's contract, while a good move financially, doesn't do it. Making an offer to a scrub, like Elson, doesn't do it.

Duncan simply cannot be saddled with the responsibilities of playing the 5 spot exclusively. Unless, of course, the Spurs ante up for a big-time rebounding partner like Murphy or Evans and we all know both will be too expensive for the Spurs budget.

Maglorie is now the ugly girl at the bar. It's 2:00AM and he's starting to look very attractive.

How does Javtokas get us over the hump?? Obviously, if he was as good as he's claimed to be on this site, he'd be here. Everyone needs to trust the Spurs front office decisions, they know more than we could ever possibly know.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not saying Butler isn't better than Javtokas. Although at this point Butler has barely had any NBA experience, either. Saying he's starting material is a bit daft.

What I WAS saying, is that Javtokas is by far a better prospect for the money than Francisco Elson. That's the truly bizarre, upsetting, unsettling, and stupid part. It's not a factor of overrating -- Javtokas is accomplished in Europe, has great tools, is 4 years younger, etc. Seems utterly stupid to me.I won't argue that I believe Elson to be greater than Javaktovas because I don't, but the quick disintergration of talks combined with the lack of a commitment from each side to say they had struck a deal seems to me that there was some kind of diagreement as to what Robertas was actually going to get in a contract.

In other words, I'm leaning torwards believing this isn't a purely basketball related decision. The dude turned around and had another deal ready. WTF?

[Mr. Body]

I can only think someone in the Spurs org fucked up. They were supposed to keep Jav posted -- LLE if both signed, but expected to get one, then the rest of the MLE for him.

[picnroll]

I wonder if Mr Duncan is a little pissed about now.

[1Parker1]

6-10

Ehh....we'd have a tough time playing Miami, Houston, etc. with Butler, Elson, Oberto, and Horry. :depressed

[MannyIsGod]

I really get annoyed with Spurs fans and their panic modes. This team could walk in with Tpark at center and still compete for the 1st seed quite easily. It isn't as though we had an all start tandem in there for the past 2 years. Give me a damn break.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Who's selling his or her season tickets? :lol

[angel_luv]

"Javtokas was "surprised" at the Spurs decision, but that he got a great contract from Panathinaikos."

I'd say that was a euphemism for pissed off and disappointed.

How many years is Robertas' Panathinaikos contract? amount?

I'm in no way a GM, but fuck it, not getting Robertas TODAY! is a fucking huge disappointment.

So now we got $$$ committed in RFA offers, and what if NEITHER of those guys comes?

Robertas probably feels dicked over, teased, toyed with, cheated down in $$$ by the Spurs.

I hope Kori and LJ are enjoying their nap! :lol

:lol

[picnroll]

Javtokas is probably pissed that the Spurs are jerking around while he's practicing with his national team, without contract, risking injury.

[Mr. Body]

I won't argue that I believe Elson to be greater than Javaktovas because I don't, but the quick disintergration of talks combined with the lack of a commitment from each side to say they had struck a deal seems to me that there was some kind of diagreement as to what Robertas was actually going to get in a contract.

In other words, I'm leaning torwards believing this isn't a purely basketball related decision. The dude turned around and had another deal ready. WTF?

You're also saying Butler is starting material. We don't know that yet. By all appearances he's extremely foul prone, etc. For now, he's a glorified CBA player that had some success on a wretched Knicks team.

Something did happen with Javtokas. I can't feel good about SAS fouling up their international negotiations. From here, at least, it looks amateurish or something.

[boutons_]

"How does Javtokas get us over the hump?"

How does NOT having Javtokas get us over the hump?
The big hump stays big. RJ could have made the hump a little smaller.

[MannyIsGod]

Ehh....we'd have a tough time playing Miami, Houston, etc. with Butler, Elson, Oberto, and Horry. :depressedWhy? Duncan is about 7 foot. 1-2 inches don't make all that big of a difference.

RC Buford said they're going to have Duncan play more center this year, so thats what people can expect.

[strangeweather]

My gut feel: Butler is the real replacement for Javtokas, not Elson. From the looks of things, they were trying to sign one guy who they thought was steady if unspectacular (okay, maybe Elson qualifies as outright craptacular), and one guy with upside who isn't ready to come in to start.

Javtokas clearly has to be the upside guy, since he's coming here from overseas. But Butler probably has more upside, especially since he's so young.

Meanwhile, they need placeholder guy, but they don't want to throw much cash at him, since he may not keep the starting job (or even stay in the rotation) anyway. I would have thought they could do better than Elson, but maybe not.

Random question for people: would you rather have Wright or Jarron Collins by themselves (taking up a little more than half the midlevel) or Butler + Elson?

[picnroll]

I really get annoyed with Spurs fans and their panic modes. This team could walk in with Tpark at center and still compete for the 1st seed quite easily. It isn't as though we had an all start tandem in there for the past 2 years. Give me a damn break.
You're kidding, right? Is that with zero injuries and Duncan, Parker and Ginobili averaging 45 minutes a game?

[yavozerb]

I really get annoyed with Spurs fans and their panic modes. This team could walk in with Tpark at center and still compete for the 1st seed quite easily. It isn't as though we had an all start tandem in there for the past 2 years. Give me a damn break.

No shit!!!Damn you would have thought manu or duncan just got traded or something...Everybody calm down and see what happens.

[T Park]

This team could walk in with Tpark at center and still compete for the 1st seed quite easily

Lets not get hasty....

[MannyIsGod]

You're also saying Butler is starting material. We don't know that yet. By all appearances he's extremely foul prone, etc. For now, he's a glorified CBA player that had some success on a wretched Knicks team.

Something did happen with Javtokas. I can't feel good about SAS fouling up their international negotiations. From here, at least, it looks amateurish or something.Actually, Elson will start. Butler will come off the Bench. Elson has been an NBA starter, and maybe thats one of the reasons they went after him.

And now you're calling the negotiations amatuerish? What exactly happened to make them seem that way? They broke down? They break down all the time.

The Spurs are hard barginers on the international scene because they hold these guys rights and they have a shitload of leverage. It isn't as though Mahimi gets to negotiate a damn thing either way.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Tony Parker
Manu Ginobilli
Bruce Bowen
Tim Duncan
Francisco Elson


:D

I'm lovin' it. You guys will love Elson when you see a few of his games as a Spurs. He brings toughness Rasho didn't bring, and unlike Nazr he won't fumble the ball around the rim. He's a nice athlete for a 7 footer, and will finish around the rim.


At some point during the seasons if Butler wins out the starting job, I don't think bringing Elson off the bench would be bad either. He did it all is career in Denver, he'll just do it again...but he'll get a lot more minutes here. Stop the hate on Elson!

[MI21]

Ridiculous to even make an offer to Elson.

Normally, I'd be excited over the potential of getting Butler. Young Big Man with talent isn't something the Spurs have always had over the years, but he would be exciting if he was a secondary acquisition, not the main one.

I refuse to believe this is all the Spurs are going to do. They must have something up there sleeves...I hope.

[G-Nob]

This news is about as shocking as our centers disappearing in the playoffs.

[MannyIsGod]

No shit!!!Damn you would have thought manu or duncan just got traded or something...Everybody calm down and see what happens.A hobbled Duncan + Nazr and Rasho was enough for the 1st seed last year. A healthy Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Duncan/Nazr/Rasho.

There were games last year when the Spurs played 3.5/5 and won. The center position isn't going to make or break this team, and thats a given.

[SenorSpur]

How does Javtokas get us over the hump?? Obviously, if he was as good as he's claimed to be on this site, he'd be here. Everyone needs to trust the Spurs front office decisions, they know more than we could ever possibly know.

Sorry. The Spurs FO doesn't get a pass on this one. While they've been very successful over the years, for the most part, they have made their fair share blunders. Many of which (pursuit of Kidd, passing on Josh Howard, signing Oberto) have been discussed in other threads.

Let's face it. They fucked up and they've done nothing so far this offseason to earn anyone's trust . Of course, I'm sure they don't give a rats ass what we think.

[lakehorn]

New York already has 15 players under contract, i believe.
I believe you are correct, so they need to dump a player or two before they can sign anyone.

[Solid D]

I'm disappointed with the Javtokas decision.

Butler and Elson are two totally different 3rd-tier players. Butler is a gifted post scorer, almost magnetic at times, with a big backside to go with his upside. He's not an impressive defender. Elson is fairly quick for a Big and he can defend the paint but he's still a scrub as far as I'm concerned.

The only other good thing I can say is that neither one of these guys are soft and they SHOULD be cheap labor.

[leemajors]

I really get annoyed with Spurs fans and their panic modes. This team could walk in with Tpark at center and still compete for the 1st seed quite easily. It isn't as though we had an all start tandem in there for the past 2 years. Give me a damn break.

agreed there. things can be a lot different by november.

[venitian navigator]

Frankly, I don't understand the choices the spurs are making...
First Scola, now Javtokas...
In opinion of everybody (at least in Europe) two of the best european players and for sure two of the best "nba made" looking at their skils...expecialy for the spurs needs (Center that rebounds and block shots; Power forward that plays like inside option when Duncan is resting).
I really don't see the reasons to do not make them both play this year...if it was possible.
At least one of them.
I see no way the other free agents still in the market are comparable to them like actual and, more than all, future value...
However, the only thing I (and we all, I guess) can do is hoping in the ability of our scouts and management...maybe they see things I'm not capable of...and they surely know things we all don't!
But, at the moment, their decisions look terrible to me...

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Sorry. The Spurs FO doesn't get a pass on this one. While they've been very successful over the years, for the most part, they have made their fair share blunders. Many of which (pursuit of Kidd, passing on Josh Howard, signing Oberto) have been discussed in other threads.

Let's face it. They fucked up and they've done nothing so far this offseason to earn anyone's trust . Of course, I'm sure they don't give a rats ass what we think.

Signing of Oberto?? I believe the reaction from spurs fans much the same as it was for Javtokas?? How can you assure me that signing Javtokas wouldn't of been a blunder?

[Mr. Body]

Manny, the season is very long. Players get battered for 82 games. You need depth, strong players, etc.

Going with Duncan only as your only good inside player is a bit crazy. He's gonna get killed.

I'm not saying Javtokas was the answer, but he seemed more the answer than Elson, who has shown so little in the league so far, and will show no more than he has at 30.

I'm happy with Butler - that looks good. But screwing up the Javtokas situation looks daft.

[td4mvp21]

Son of a bitch, that is retarded.

[Buddy Holly]

I think the Spurs are trying to sign both Butler and Elson, not either or.

Then they'll make a biiger move via a trade.

[leemajors]

Lets not get hasty....

suit up and foul dirk tpark. but before he shoots. please.

[Budkin]

Fuckin A this is disappointing.... :depressed

[picnroll]

People are talking like Elson and Butler are already signed.

[ducks]

what good is the euro farm system if spurs do not use them

[ducks]

hopefully denver matches today!

[angel_luv]

I don't remember ever seeing either Butler or Elson play, so I don't know what to think.

[MoSpur]

I'm okay with these offers. Not happy, but okay with them. I'd rather have someone like Wright or Magloire, but apparently the Spurs are thinking or know something we don't. We'll have to wait seven days though.

[Mr. Body]

hopefully denver matches today!

Then a quick, sobbing phone call to Lithuania.

[MoSpur]

what good is the euro farm system if spurs do not use them

My thoughts exactly.

[MoSpur]

It all comes down to money though. It always does.

[Budkin]

Hey I just noticed that that link at the top of this thread does not work and the story is not linked from the SpursZone main page. Any chance this is a hoax? (please God let it be...) :madrun

[Buddy Holly]

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=93079F71-137D-4BD6-9733-F28C99B4B25E

[Budkin]

Hey I just noticed that that link at the top of this thread does not work and the story is not linked from the SpursZone main page. Any chance this is a hoax? (please God let it be...) :madrun

NM, it's in the breaking news section. It's real. :depressed

[vanvannen]

This is the Spurs ultimate move to go small. God Damn.

[Mr. Body]

Still no starting C. Guess it's Duncan, then.

We start Bonner as PF? Oberto?

Wonderful!!!

[MoSpur]

I thought the Spurs were focused more on trying to acquire someone so they can play small ball against the Mavs and the like???? Offering contracts to two centers doesn't look like small ball to me.

[boutons_]

"denver matches today"

to freeze the Spurs $$$ in the RFA offers, I bet no team counter-offers until the last hour.

[Mr. Body]

"denver matches today"

to freeze the Spurs $$$ in the RFA offers, I bet no team counter-offers until the last hour.

At least it's only a week now instead of 14 days.

[Leetonidas]

I thought the Spurs were focused more on trying to acquire someone so they can play small ball against the Mavs and the like???? Offering contracts to two centers doesn't look like small ball to me.

Obviously not, which is a good thing.

[spurster]

Passing over Scola and Javtokas, and splitting the MLE to Butler and Elson, huh. This makes the Rasho signing 3 years ago look like genius.

Scola and/or Javtokas would be chancy, but at least they could blossom, a la Parker and Manu, they are top Euro players, and best of all, they are not restricted, so if they accept an offer, the Spurs have them. The Spurs are settling for mediocrity just when Duncan and Manu are at/near their primes.

[Mr. Body]

If anything Javtokas would be intimidating. At worst he picks up fouls somewhat quickly, but blocks a couple shots with them, coming off the bench.

What exactly does Francisco Elson do?

[mrose31]

This is the Spurs ultimate move to go small. God Damn.


With this team might as well. Lets go suns style and start

Parker
Ginobili
Finley
Bowen (Why not he can guard Dirk 1 of hardest players to guard. )
Duncan

[mrose31]

With this team might as well. Lets go suns style and start

Parker
Ginobili
Finley
Bowen (Why not he can guard Dirk 1 of hardest players to guard. )
Duncan

I was just kidding by the way

...well sort of.

[Spurologist]

Management might as well start writing that book.

"The spurs offseason fuck up"

Coming to a store near you.

[angel_luv]

Are the Spurs looking to bring both these guys in to keep or might they be looking to eventually package them off for someone else?

[ducks]

elson better be for gs

[1Parker1]

Why? Duncan is about 7 foot. 1-2 inches don't make all that big of a difference.

RC Buford said they're going to have Duncan play more center this year, so thats what people can expect.

Yes, but having Duncan guard Yao, Shaq, etc would put him in foul trouble. Not sure if Elson or Butler would be able to handle defending Shaq, Yao, etc. They'll be good for Mavs, Suns, etc though.

[Spurologist]

Are the Spurs looking to bring both these guys in to keep or might they be looking to eventually package them off for someone else?

I like Jackie Butler's game. He's be a decent/good option at the starter position.

I think everyone is confused on Elson. I think it was the San Antonio Silver Stars that offered Elson a contract. It's be a perfect fit. The S-stars needs a good big in the middle who can feel at home. It will finally give him a chance to have an impact on a basketball game. Best wishes to him.

[yavozerb]

Nobody can cover Shaq or Yao with single coverage...You have to do it with team defense..

[waly.mg]

Probably the Team could be Bonner and Duncan as Pf and C, or C and PF

is Better TP-MG-BB-TD-Bonner or Oberto

Than Elson or Butler

[strangeweather]

From the Jacque Vaughn thread:

The Spurs extended offers to both Elson and Butler in part because they were unable to reach agreement with former second-round pick Robertas Javtokas. Javtokas is preparing to play in Greece, but [the Spurs haven’t given up hope they will be able to resume negotiations with him, if needed.
Interesting.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

please Nuggets, match the offer for Elson :clap

Elson wll only be truly appreciated in Denver



:fro

[leemajors]

From the Jacque Vaughn thread:

Interesting.

that's what i thought. if they don't get one they could still sign him. the grecian contract signing seemed a bit hasty, but someone said he could back out within 7 days, which is also the matching period.

[Brutalis]

And people actually told me I had nothing to worry about..

[Spurologist]

Nobody can cover Shaq or Yao with single coverage...You have to do it with team defense..

Spurs don't double team a center that often and when they do, it's with light pressure from the guards/forward to push him to the weak side. Then they back off.

Point is foul trouble is going to happen even with team defense. With the foul trouble, the lack of depth for the spurs at that position will show. If Ian is ready to go and isn't sucking, there's a potential backup. Free Kiwi. Every game, I've seen him play, he hasn't hurt the team. Those games weren't all GARBAGE time game, but some where he actually had an impact. Energy. Rebouding. Jump-shooting. Spurs should give him a run.

[Mr. Body]

If I'm Robertas, I tell the Spurs to screw off. Just play in Greece for a team that wants you.

[leemajors]

If I'm Robertas, I tell the Spurs to screw off. Just play in Greece for a team that wants you.

you have no idea what he was told, or what happened.

[Budkin]

that's what i thought. if they don't get one they could still sign him. the grecian contract signing seemed a bit hasty, but someone said he could back out within 7 days, which is also the matching period.

From the sound of that article it sounded like the reason we made offers to both Butler and Elson was that we couldn't reach an agreement with Robertas. I'm not sure how we are all of a sudden going to make it work just because one of these "centers" doesn't sign.

[Mr. Body]

you have no idea what he was told, or what happened.

Neither do you. If I'm RJ I still play for the team that wants me and needs me to play for them, not for the one where I'm a last resort.

[strangeweather]

Neither do you. If I'm RJ I still play for the team that wants me and needs me to play for them, not for the one where I'm a last resort.
For all we know, the deal fell apart because he wanted 4 years, $4M a year.

[Leetonidas]

Neither do you. If I'm RJ I still play for the team that wants me and needs me to play for them, not for the one where I'm a last resort.

Then in that case you're a dickhead for saying fuck you to the team that payed for your fucking surgery after your crash.

[Mr. Body]

Then in that case you're a dickhead for saying fuck you to the team that payed for your fucking surgery after your crash.

He has to stay at their beck and call? He has a career, they didn't sign him, so what's wrong with signing with another team?

[venitian navigator]

Probably, RJ agent has shown to the spurs the Greek team offer...and that wasn't comparable to what the spurs thought to offer!
RJ was sees like the best Euro center....it was logical that, being a free agent, he would have received very good offers...I alrady said that an offer less than three millions would have been an absolute steal, looking at the market value!
Imho, it was time to take a risk and give him a more than fair contract...because he was, probably, more than worth of it (and the same for Scola, next year).
The only thing that I see in Butler more than RJ is that he's younger and probably willing to improve...but he's inexperienced and doesn't heve the phisical skills of RJ.
Elson Is older, has a good athletic specimen, but nothing comparable with the chances that RJ brings regarding rebounding and bloking shots...
We'll see...I hope I'm totally wrong!

[Bruno]

Butler :tu
Elson :td
No Javtokas :td

[JGrice02]

For all we know, the deal fell apart because he wanted 4 years, $4M a year.

You can pretty much guarantee that he didn't get that overseason. We will know how cheap the Spurs were when we get the specifics on his current contract. Whathever it is, the Spurs were either not willing to match it or they thought there were better alternatives.

I don't see any scenario in which the Knicks won't match the Butler signing. Isaiah likes the kid and will do whatever it takes in his only season as coach to make sure he has Butler on the team. He needs all the help he can get and Butler should still come cheap. Then again, if Thomas held true to form he would not match Butlers offer as Thomas has a history of making the wrong choice. Let's hope he hasn't run out of stupid decisions. My bet is that NY matches the offer.

[jcrod]

Nobody can cover Shaq or Yao with single coverage...You have to do it with team defense..


Rasho actually played them 1-1 and always held his own. You need height on those guys.

I still think 2.5 is not enough to get Butler, hopefully I'm wrong.

[furry_spurry]

A few things to know about the Javtokas situation.

1. He was not as all-fired desperate to come to the NBA as people thought.

2. He had offers from European teams already sitting there in case he decided to stay in Europe.

3. The story portrays this as a decision by the Spurs- not him- to offer those two offer sheets to other players- over signing him.

4. He is already practicing with his NT without the safety of a contract. He does not want to wait any longer.

5. I tried to tell people it wasn't a done deal.

6. Spurs reputation has taken a hit with players in Europe.

[jcrod]

Then in that case you're a dickhead for saying fuck you to the team that payed for your fucking surgery after your crash.


Its easy for you to sit there and talk. You don't know how much they offered and for that matter how much the Euro team offered. If its more than a mil a yr, thats alot of money for RJ. Its not like he's made his money and a couple of mil isn't going to hurt him.

[leemajors]

Neither do you. If I'm RJ I still play for the team that wants me and needs me to play for them, not for the one where I'm a last resort.

you're right, i don't. thats' exactly why i'm not making assumptions about what did happen.

[SA210]

No Javtokas = FO continuing their stupidity since playing small ball

:pctoss

[CaptainLate]

If I'm RJ I still play for the team that wants me and needs me to play for them, not for the one where I'm a last resort.

Not if you're anxious to see if you can compete with the best basketball players in the world. :elephant

[angel_luv]

Any chance Sean Marks will get some playing time with us now?

[furry_spurry]

Any chance Sean Marks will get some playing time with us now?
Sean won't be back. With these three players- if the two go unmatched- the Spurs are at 14 contracts and 6 big men: Duncan, Horry, Oberto, Elson, Butler, Bonner. No more room for the Kiwi. Basically- position wise- you have replaced Rasho, Nazr, and Sean with Elson, Butler and Bonner-- replaced NVE with Vaughn and Melvin Sanders with Williams. The Spurs won't spend any more money and will be looking for trades with Barry or Williams.

[wildbill2u]

what good is the euro farm system if spurs do not use them

I'm going to assume that the brief video clips we've seen of Javtokas didn't offset a lack of NBA skills discerned by better judges of basketball talent than all of us.

Remember, earlier this summer most of the forum talk was about how Javtokas simply wasn't ready. How did he become the savior all of a sudden?

Likewise, remember Oberto was supposed to have been the best Euro center-and a sure lock for lots of playing time on the Spurs-before he actually came over and was matched up against NBA talent.

[timvp]

First off, the most important news is that the Spurs have a shot at Jackie Butler. If they get him, that'd be a GREAT signing. He's by far the best available bigman. By far.

Elson, of course, is a signing I don't understand. But I can live with it if they can also get Butler. Get both of them and it works.

Javtokas coming is a little bit of a bummer, but this guy has been a bitch before earlier in the offseason. When the Spurs still had Rasho and Nazr, he didn't want to come because he thought there wouldn't be enough playing time. Now the Spurs are signing Elson so he doesn't think there's playing time? This guy is a pansy.

If Javtokas doesn't think he can beat out Elson and a 21-year-old center, the Spurs don't need him.

Have fun in Greece.

[timvp]

But :elephant :elephant :elephant in regards to Butler.

[ducks]

I doubt he even realizes how bad elson is he is stuck overseas playing
his agent is the one that fucked that up

[Kori Ellis]

Don Harris said the Spurs called Javtokas and told him they wanted to go in a different direction.

So I think it's all on the Spurs that he's not going to be here.

[Spurs9]

This sucks ass.

[SA210]

Don Harris said the Spurs called Javtokas and told him they wanted to go in a different direction.

So I think it's all on the Spurs that he's not going to be here.
:pctoss

[violentkitten]

i wonder what javtokas was asking for.

[timvp]

Jackie Butler >>>>>> Robertas Javtokas

Now and in the future.

I don't get why Spurs fans are jumping off bridges. If the Spurs get Butler, they are set at the center spot for the next decade.

[Spurs9]

Jackie Butler >>>>>> Robertas Javtokas

Now and in the future.

I don't get why Spurs fans are jumping off bridges. If the Spurs get Butler, they are set at the center spot for the next decade.
The Knicks will probably match the offer...

[Kori Ellis]

If the Spurs wanted to take a shot at Jackie Butler before signing Javtokas, then I understand that.

Butler is going to be good.

Hopefully the Spurs can land him.

I wonder when we'll know if he signed the offer sheet.

[bigdog]

knowing isiah thomas, he will match the offer, just to spend more money, haha. but i like Elson more then Butler,even though butler is very young. but i still want to see Javtokas in a spurs uniform. i think both the nuggets and knicks are likely to match the offers

[Budkin]

Couldn't we have gotten Butler and Javtokas?

[timvp]

Javtokas needs to stop being a baby. He was intimidated by Nazr and Rasho. Now he's scared of the potential signings of Butler and Elson.

He should've just waited it out. There's a decent chance the Spurs don't even get Butler. In that case, Javtokas is a good fall back plan.

Then again, how much does Javtokas want? I thought it was understood he'd come for a two-year LLE offer.

[Kori Ellis]

Couldn't we have gotten Butler and Javtokas?

We don't know how much money Javtokas wanted. So we'll probably never know the answer to that.

[jcrod]

If Butler is so good, why isn't he commanding more attention?? I don't think its a lock he'll be good, but I can honestly say I don't remember seeing him play.

[violentkitten]

javtokas saw $$$$$$ when the spurs whiffed on pryzbilla and mohammed.

[violentkitten]

If Butler is so good, why isn't he commanding more attention?? I don't think its a lock he'll be good, but I can honestly say I don't remember seeing him play.

because he's restricted. it's a total crapshoot.

[ducks]

knowing isiah thomas, he will match the offer, just to spend more money, haha. but i like Elson more then Butler,even though butler is very young. but i still want to see Javtokas in a spurs uniform. i think both the nuggets and knicks are likely to match the offers

I heard he said he might not spend the mle

[Spurs9]

I heard he said he might not spend the mle
Could you explain what exactly MLE is?

[bigdog]

Mid Level Exception....if you read up on the salary cap and how much teams can spend, you will know

[Spurs9]

The Knicks payroll is gonna be over $109 million next year...more than $44 million over the luxury tax threshold. Let's see if they can manage to win 25 games this year... :smokin

[timvp]

Now we just have to pray that the Knicks don't match. I wonder what kind of offer the Spurs gave Butler.

Come on Isiah, help the Spurs out and just say no.

Please?

[40 inch vertical]

Javtokas (not) coming is a little bit of a bummer, but this guy has been a bitch before earlier in the offseason. When the Spurs still had Rasho and Nazr, he didn't want to come because he thought there wouldn't be enough playing time. Now the Spurs are signing Elson so he doesn't think there's playing time? This guy is a pansy.

If Javtokas doesn't think he can beat out Elson and a 21-year-old center, the Spurs don't need him.

Have fun in Greece.


... Usually agree with your posts but couldn't disagree more here. If this was all on the Spurs, then I'm sure he felt somewhat slapped in the face by all this and being passive and just waiting on the Spurs would be reflection that I simply wouldn't hope for nor expect from him. The Spurs, in my opinion, needed that fire, that pride, that "go fuck yourself" attitude. I understand the loyalty issue for the motorcycle accident and after, but that only goes so far. If you don't feel wanted, so sense hanging around. Just go out and show them in the World events that they made a mistake.

[violentkitten]

the spurs are taking another flier ala mourning.

[itzsoweezee]

pathetic.

and lol @ the hyperbole regarding jackie fucking butler. spurs make the playoffs w/ a number 5 seed next year.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If the Knicks match, could the spurs re-offer Butler something higher? How does restricted free agency work again? :smchode:

[Tobias]

If the Knicks match, that means he's a Knick

[Extra Stout]

pathetic.

and lol @ the hyperbole regarding jackie fucking butler. spurs make the playoffs w/ a number 5 seed next year.
Well, at least since the 4 seed is going to be like a 44-38 Jazz or Nuggets team, the Spurs get to win one series before being summarily dispatched by Dallas or Phoenix.

The world is getting very Boston-Celtics-in-1989-feeling.

[Kori Ellis]

If the Knicks match, could the spurs re-offer Butler something higher? How does restricted free agency work again? :smchode:

No, if the Knicks match then he automatically has to stay with the Knicks.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Matching the offer would be the SMART thing to do, so you have to figure that Isiah will screw it up some how

[Bruno]

Now the question is : What offers sheet Spurs have made to Butler and Elson ?

To me :
- Elson $4M/2 years
- Butler $8M/3 years

[Kori Ellis]

Now the question is : What offers sheet Spurs have made to Butler and Elson ?

To me :
- Elson $4M/2 years
- Butler $8M/3 years

That would be good. I don't mind them offering Butler up to their standard 3year/10M offer that they have liked in the past. However, they might offer him a Fabricio style 3year/7.5M offer.

[timvp]

Now the question is : What offers sheet Spurs have made to Butler and Elson ?

To me :
- Elson $4M/2 years
- Butler $8M/3 years

Perhaps something like that. Maybe Butler got a little more because there were a number of teams who liked him.

To steal Butler I'd think you'd have to give him at least $12-14M.

Hopefully we hear numbers sometime soon.

[Manu20]

Do you all think Butler is good enough to start next year?

[timvp]

Do you all think Butler is good enough to start next year?

Elson will probably get the nod early on but Butler will beat him out by the All-Star break. Even though he's only 21, he has worlds of potential.

[violentkitten]

spurs could have offered

elson 2 years starting at $2 mil for $4.16 mil total
butler 3 years starting at $3.3 mil for $10.69 mil total

for butler that's basically the 1st 3 years of what the 2nd overall pick in last month's draft will get

[T Park]

This is the second time Javtokas has acted like a bitch.

Remember late may early june when he made waves about signing and "his terms"

Fucking gratitude for paying for his fucking ability to walk again.

[Bruno]

I'm fine with Butler getting more but I will be pissed if Spurs offers more than $6M to Elson.
At $4M, Elson isn't a bad signing.
I hope that Elson only get LLE offers ($3.6M/2 years) from others team and that Spurs have given him slighty more.

[Kori Ellis]

This is the second time Javtokas has acted like a bitch.

Remember late may early june when he made waves about signing and "his terms"

Fucking gratitude for paying for his fucking ability to walk again.

I don't think he acted like a bitch today. The Spurs told him they were going in another direction and he was surprised but then he went to sign with Greece.

What's bitchy about that?

[40 inch vertical]

No, if the Knicks match then he automatically has to stay with the Knicks.


I've seen that it is more expensive for the Knicks because of the luxury tax but, other than they're the Knicks, why would they not sign the guy if he has the potential and upside touted on this board?

[Kori Ellis]

I've seen that it is more expensive for the Knicks because of the luxury tax but, other than they're the Knicks, why would they not sign the guy if he has the potential and upside touted on this board?

They already have 15 players under contract.

[40 inch vertical]

WOE - Worst Off-season Ever

[Bruno]

They already have 15 players under contract.

I believe it's 14.

Jerome James is the key. I think that Knicks will only match if he is badly out of shape.

[Kori Ellis]

I believe it's 14.

Jerome James is the key. I think that Knicks will only match if he is badly out of shape.

I just counted 15. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Manu20]

According to hoopshype Knicks have 15 players under contract.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

[T Park]

WOE - Worst Off-season Ever

forget the 93-94 offseason?

[Bruno]

I just counted 15. But maybe I'm wrong.

We both right.
In fact it's 15 with Ime Udoka but his contract has no protection for next year.

[wolf754life]

Some of you may laugh at my analogy, but here it goes. I am a huge st. louis cardinals fan and spur fan of course. The cardinals are perrenial powers, have a rabid fan base, a smaller market and take a very frugal approach. They also have star in Albert Pujols, and some good pieces in Scott Rolen and Chris Carpenter, aka Timmy is Pujols, Manu is Rolen, and Carpenter is Parker.

The cardinals this past offseason decided to take a frugal approach to their payroll, they refused to pay reggie sanders and mark grudzeilanek, two proven major leaguers, and went the cheap route. And let me tell you, anytime you go cheap, you pay for it, the bottom line is the spurs have gotten worse today, not better!

This is even more compounded by the fact that Tim is 30, Manu 29. THE WINDOW IS CLOSING PEOPLE! AND TODAY IT TOOK A MAJOR SWING INWARD!

After 2008 San Antonio better get ready for the aftermath, Tim hobbled and used up, twilight of his career, Manu has so many miles its not funny, international ball, olympics etc...Tony will be the only bright spot. Elson will be a bum, bowen will be 38! This is terrible news!

[timvp]

the wrong, stupid, and money saving direction. :lol

How is it saving money if the Spurs used all the money they could?

[Mr. Body]

Why is Javtokas a bitch? For acting in his best interests? As far as we know, the Spurs did not ask him to sit and wait and he just got word they spent the full MLE on other players.

I don't understand why prominent people on this board start calling foreign players bitches when the Spurs decline their favors. I don't get that hatred. Maybe they weren't right for the team. Fine. But they're bitches because they signed with other teams?

[leemajors]

because javotkas wants what he's worth and the spurs want cheap labor...fuck the spurs.

don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Obstructed_View]

Time to start photoshopping Timmy's MRI.

[Mr. Peabody]

Is it possible that Javtokas was not as physically sound as the Spurs preferred? I mean the guy did have a major injury.

[Quadzilla99]

Wow, what shitty news to come home to. Francisco fucking Elson.

[spurs=bling]

http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/2.gif

[clubalien]

This us oribally why javtoas was removed from the summer leauge

[Kori Ellis]

This us oribally why javtoas was removed from the summer leauge

He was never going to play in summer league. That was a bad report. He is training with the national team.

[timvp]

He was never going to play in summer league. That was a bad report. He is training with the national team.

And you read that how? I was lost after the word orbit.

[Kori Ellis]

This us oribally = This was probably :)

[ChumpDumper]

I understood it -- I've seen Bill Cosby's dentist sketch dozens of times.

[SuperManu!!!]

We should have signed scola

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Man, this is definitely the biggest disappointment of the offseason so far.

Butler (not a done deal, but fingers crossed), Vaughn, Javtokas and I would have been happy with the offseason. Better yet if they managed to sign an SF for development.

No Javtokas takes a lot of the sheen off... :(

[ducks]

if scola could not play with duncan on the court why sign him
scola would not have been happy with 8 minutes a game

[violentkitten]

lmfao

now spurs fans who championed cheapness are bitching about it. :spin

[V-2]

OK guys,

Robertas' contract with Panathinaikos is 1.5M euros/year without including the bonuses. This is obviously alot of dough.

[timvp]

OK guys,

Robertas' contract with Panathinaikos is 1.5M euros/year without including the bonuses. This is obviously alot of dough.

Sounds like if the Knicks match on Butler, the Spurs can turn around and give that money to Javtokas.

:wakeup

[Kori Ellis]

Is there any chance that Javtokas still wants to play for the Spurs? I don't understand this. Was it the Spurs idea not to sign Javtokas?

Apparently the Spurs told him this morning that they were going in another direction. His agent said they were "surprised" by it but I'm guessing the negotiations weren't going well. So then he signed with a team in Greece, however he reportedly can get out of that contract if he settles with the Spurs by Friday.

I don't think he's coming, but who knows.

[AndRe-LT]

Guys, guys don't worry, it's not over yet, Javtokas will play in Panatinaikos, if he don't sing contract with a spurs ! Now, there are some difficultes with a contract singing ! "Interperformence" announced !
Link on Lith: http://basketnews.lt/news-5474.html

[ace3g]

can you translate that article AndRe-LT

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Can anyone translate this?

[waly.mg]

According to hoopshype Knicks have 15 players under contract.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

Look at this Money

Salaries 2006/2007 $ 133.363.654 and $ 40 Million to Larry Brown

But the next years they come back to earth

Salaries 2007/2008 $ 65.476.125 (With the LB Buyout is 100 Millions less)

Salaries 2009/2010 $ 25.312.500

[wildbill2u]

OK guys,

Robertas' contract with Panathinaikos is 1.5M euros/year without including the bonuses. This is obviously alot of dough.

About 1.9 million at the average exchange rate for the past few days.

[Gino20]

Dont know to much about this guy, but has not played a min against NBA professionals. That alone is a big difference compared to the euro league. He has to prove he is worth the money first....

[velik_m]

Dont know to much about this guy, but has not played a min against NBA professionals. That alone is a big difference compared to the euro league. He has to prove he is worth the money first....

sure he has, just not under NBA rules.

Javtokas's price will just go up. If he's too expensive now, he'll be too expensive later.

[Mr. Body]

Javtokas played against a lot of professionals in the Olympics.

[E20]

I guess the Spurs are hoping that TD pulls out a 29/14/6 year.

[ducks]

can you translate that article AndRe-LT


anyway, my english is bad, but I'll try to translate

in the first part of the article they say that Javtokas is disapointed and so on, that he was expected to sign a contract with Spurs, but after such accident, he signed with Panathinaikos.

the second part says that &quot;Interperfomance&quot; agency (Robertas Javtokas is their client) member in Lithuania Virginijus Bulotas said that is not all over yet. He says that they are still in talks with Spurs and that it is not clear where Javtokas will play upcoming season.

best wishes from Lithuania this was posted on another board by a poster who is from Lithunia
it is from that article.....
hopefully thinks can be worked out :smokin