Francisco Elson: Will the Nuggets Match?

[timvp]

You really need him, Denver. Please match the offer.

Please?

[BruceBowenFan]

You really need him, Denver. Please match the offer.

Please? :lol :lol

[violentkitten]

with javtokas out of the picture...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

they will, hopefully :smokin

[ducks]

nugget fan fan out how much it was
please

[Mr. Body]

They gotta trade Kenyon... then maybe lose Evans. Or think they can keep Evans? No interest in Evans, maybe, for seven days?

Eh. They won't match.

[Bruno]

I think they will.
They only have 2 centers : Camby and Nene. Nene came back form a big surgery and Camby is injury prone.
Only reason why I don't see them matching are :
- Spurs offer is big.
- They trade KMart and get a center in return.
- They hit the luxury tax threshold.

[timvp]

The sad thing is seven days from now if Butler is already matched and the rest of the free agents are taken, we might have to hope for Elson.

Ugh.

[violentkitten]

The sad thing is seven days from now if Butler is already matched and the rest of the free agents are taken, we might have to hope for Elson.

Ugh.

starting center fabricio oberto

[Brutalis]

What did the Spurs offer?

[texasqb2]

You really need him, Denver. Please match the offer.

Please?

no offense buddy, but I trust RC/Pop/Rest of the front office before you....I hope we get them both, we've done our HW

[timvp]

What did the Spurs offer?

Hasn't been made public yet.

Probably two years and between $4M and $6M.

[ChumpDumper]

If we get Butler, Elson will be a good complimentary player. Getting him alone would be disappointing, though I like the fact both are athletic.

[CavsFan89]

Im guessing if you get Elson you will recind the offer for Butler.(or the other way)

[ChumpDumper]

Huh?

Both have signed offers. Both can be signed. They are different enough that the Spurs could keep both.

[JUUOT]

I can not imagine Elson getting offered more than 2.5 a year...
If we sign him for more than 2M a year, i would be pissed though. he does not deserve more.

Butler for 3 years 10M i would take it anyday.

[CavsFan89]

But I think you guys will rescind one of them after one signs

[Please_dont_ban_me]

:lol

Appently Timvp is more knowledgeable the Spurs needs/capabilities than the Spurs front office.

[ChumpDumper]

But I think you guys will rescind one of them after one signsI doubt it. We need two centers.

I don't know that we could take it back if we tried.

[timvp]

But I think you guys will rescind one of them after one signs

You can't rescind the offers.

[CavsFan89]

The offer sheet.

[Kori Ellis]

Even if Butler gets matched and Elson doesn't, I think the Spurs will try for another big. I don't think their plan is to JUST get Elson.

[timvp]

:lol

Appently Timvp is more knowledgeable the Spurs needs/capabilities than the Spurs front office.

Why don't you tell me who Elson reminds you of so I can have a good laugh.

[timvp]

The offer sheet.

You can't.

[CavsFan89]

Are you sure?? :drunk

[Kori Ellis]

Are you sure?? :drunk

I don't think you can rescind it after the player has signed it.

[timvp]

Yes.

[ChumpDumper]

The only thing that can be rescinded if the original team's qualifying offer.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Why don't you tell me who Elson reminds you of so I can have a good laugh.

Why don't you keep playing self-proclaimed Spurs expert so I can have a good laugh?



P.S - Elson reminds me of Kevin Willis with his physical style of play. Minus the alligator arms and about 10 years in age.

[timvp]

P.S - Elson reminds me of Kevin Willis with his physical style of play. Minus the alligator arms and about 10 years in age.

:lmao

Thanks.

[Doc Jerome]

Barring a miracle signing or something extraordinary that has not been thought of, anticipated or conjured up; the Spurs are in for a very rough season and face the very real possibility of another 2nd round exit.

But, stay tuned.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

:lmao

Thanks.

How is that Reggie Evans signing coming along?

[timvp]

For bonus points, who do you compare Jackie Butler to?

This should be good . . .

[Please_dont_ban_me]

For bonus points, who do you compare Jackie Butler to?

This should be good . . .

This cute, deflecting the attention off yourself. :elephant

But since I'm a nice guy...I haven't seen enough of Butler to really compare him to anybody. But from what little I've seen, he reminds me a little of Eddy Curry with his bulky physique. I just remember watching a game and seeing some of his post moves thinking it was Curry...then seeing the name on the jersey and it being Butler.






Lawl?

[SequNets]

Francisco Elson Blows.

[timvp]

Lawl?

Yeah.

Still not as good as when you said Tyrus Thomas reminded you of Ben Gordon.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd venture to say that most people here haven't watched more than a handful of games involving Elson or Butler.

I'm not fond of Elson, but he'd be okay for cheap if he's not going to be the starter. I still don't see the advantage of him of the unrestricted mediocre free agent bigs, but oh well.

Butler on the other hand is someone who I'd really want here. Butler, SHunter, etc are the type of young blood the Spurs need to bring in.

[ducks]

I have seen elson play against the lakers
early in the game he looked great

elson might surpise a few people. pop is a much better coach then karl and if he wants to see the court he will not be slow

[GoSpurs21]

:lol

Appently Timvp is more knowledgeable the Spurs needs/capabilities than the Spurs front office.I like how TiMVPs favorite NVE was so huge for the Spurs last season...TiMVP knows how to picks winners

[baseline bum]

Francisco Elson has a nice jumpshot, and..... um, he called Kevin Garnett gay. I hope Denver matches, but I doubt they will.

[Das Texan]

Denver needs to do us a favor.

[Russ]

For bonus points, who do you compare Jackie Butler to?

This should be good . . .
I say Corliss Wiliamson. Worst case, Oliver Miller, Tractor Traylor or "Hot Plate" Williams with the Clippers. Or that guy who played with Shaq at LSU whose name I can't recall.

[baseline bum]

I say Corliss Wiliamson. Worst case, Oliver Miller, Tractor Traylor or "Hot Plate" Williams with the Clippers. Or that guy who played with Shaq at LSU whose name I can't recall.

Stanley Roberts

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Yeah.

Still not as good as when you said Tyrus Thomas reminded you of Ben Gordon.

That actually would be funny, if it were true.

I compared one of the guards that went in the top 20 to Gordan not Tyrus Thomas.

[CavsFan89]

Who? Thabo Seflosha?

[kris]

I haven't seen that many games of Elson, but he looked decent to me. The playoff stats do make me wonder who will show up, but for $4-6 million over 2 years he can't be that bad. He's tall and has decent athletic ability, but I'm questioning my own intuition because timvp hates him so much. I remember liking the way he played. I could be wrong though, I didn't follow him closely. I think Elson will contribute for the Spurs. I already like him better than Nazr or Rasho.

I have no idea who Jackie Butler is.

[Quadzilla99]

I don't know, but I really, really hope so.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

^ That's my main concern. He did dissapear in the playoffs.

[Quadzilla99]

I say Corliss Wiliamson. Worst case, Oliver Miller, Tractor Traylor or "Hot Plate" Williams with the Clippers. Or that guy who played with Shaq at LSU whose name I can't recall.Exactly. Like I said before he looks pretty good but his weight worries me.

[violentkitten]

The only thing that can be rescinded if the original team's qualifying offer.




A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the seven day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#36

[Ocotillo]

I haven't kept up with salary cap rules etc.... Is it possible Elson was offered the LLE and Butler was offered part of the MLE? In other words, can you use both in the same season? If that were the case, Javotkas could be in option if he has not inked a deal in Greece.

[ChumpDumper]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#36I've seen that, but I've never seen it done. The Mavs have talked about it but nothing else I've seen.

[ChumpDumper]

And when the original team "agrees" is it rescinding it's QO?

I suppose it would be allowing for a sign-and-trade, but in this case Butler will become BYC and it would get so complicated it would be difficult to work out in a week's time.

If the trade angle was practical, I'm sure it has already been explored.

[Dre_7]

The funny thing about this whole offseason is that timvp is all over Bonners nuts yet hates Elson, when Elson is probably the better player. :lmao

[timvp]

The funny thing about this whole offseason is that timvp is all over Bonners nuts yet hates Elson, when Elson is probably the better player. :lmao

If Bonner went to Wisconsin you'd be molesting him via the internets.

Don't front.

[Kori Ellis]

Elson signed the offer sheet, but I haven't found yet how much it is.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Elson is serviceable (as long as he is the backup), especially knowing Pop's ability to get more out of players than they've shown before. But I don't think he is a starter.

If we land Butler and Elson, I guess we could have done worse. Butler and Javtokas would have been better though, methinks.

[Dre_7]

If Bonner went to Wisconsin you'd be molesting him via the internets.

Don't front.

Not if he wasnt any good. There have been plenty of Wisconsin athletes that have sucked at the pro level. I have no problem admiting that.

Fact is, Bonner sucks ass compared to Elson. So why you like Bonner and dont like Elson doesnt make sense to me.

[timvp]

Not if he wasnt any good. There have been plenty of Wisconsin athletes that have sucked at the pro level. I have no problem admiting that.

Fact is, Bonner sucks ass compared to Elson. So why you like Bonner and dont like Elson doesnt make sense to me.

Get back to me in six months and let me know what you think.

Thanks.

[violentkitten]

elson would be ok as the 4th or 5th bigman, a guy athletic enough to make a few plays and piss off opposing fans who cant believe their team is getting beat by a piece of shit like him

[furry_spurry]

Interesting- people hated Rasho and Nazr - and many people have called Oberto a bust- but now they are so sure that these same Spurs can bring out the best in these scrubs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No, the Nuggets won't match.

Who wants a freaking center named 'Francisco'. At least 'Rasho' sounds like something you don't want on you.

Francisco sounds like a hair dresser or a gay dancer.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_4840665,00.html



Karl also sounded as if he’ll miss Elson, whose offer sheet is believed to be for about $9 million for three years.


whoa, Frankie is getting paid!

[violentkitten]

:spin

elson got 3 yrs $9mil? hahahahahahhhaa

[Mr. Body]

Karl also sounded as if he’ll miss Elson, whose offer sheet is believed to be for about $9 million for three years.

Karl said Elson will be a "person that will have to be replaced, and it will be a difficult replacement." He said the offer sheet is "a dangerous number for us to match."

Warkentien, running basketball operations on an interim basis, would not speculate whether the Nuggets will match. Andrews, who also represents Elson, hopes they don’t.

"He would like to go to San Antonio," Andrews said.


From above link.

We got Elson. whoopee.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No, the Nuggets won't match.

Who wants a freaking center named 'Francisco'. At least 'Rasho' sounds like something you don't want on you.

Francisco sounds like a hair dresser or a gay dancer.


I just reread my post and I'd like to clarify that, for the record, I wouldn't want a hair dresser or a gay dancer on me either.

[ducks]

ouch

[violentkitten]

so elson got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at about $2.8 mil per and butler got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at $2.2 mil per.

[Mr. Body]

How do you give Elson more money when you know Butler is the one who needs more money to scare away the match? The Spurs wind up overbidding for Elson?!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

so elson got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at about $2.8 mil per and butler got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at $2.2 mil per.


Ok, I've been defending the front office all day with you guys. . .but that move was freaking BRILLIANT!!!!








:pctoss

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

u can have him at that price. I dont think the Nuggets will match BUT they very well could if Camby is traded in the next few days

[furry_spurry]

So- the Spurs made it their focus to offer enough to Elson to keep him from getting matched- thereby offering Butler the leftovers which the Knicks wiill probably match. Welcome your new starting center-- Fransicso Elson. And let us not forget- that 3/$9M is what Scola was apparently willing to come for.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

What the hell? 9 million???

So turns out the Spurs aren't cheap, just dumb. :lol

[leemajors]

wow. has anyone local confirmed those nums?

[furry_spurry]

Appears Elson is who they have chosen. The reports last night were actually correct- no matter how hard people didn't want to believe it. Then they figured it wouldn't hurt to extend that offer sheet to Butler- if by some miracle the Knicks don't match, they get him for a good deal.

[koopa]

So- the Spurs made it their focus to offer enough to Elson to keep him from getting matched- thereby offering Butler the leftovers which the Knicks wiill probably match. Welcome your new starting center-- Fransicso Elson. And let us not forget- that 3/$9M is what Scola was apparently willing to come for.

well the spurs didn't want scola so it don't matter, we have enough pf, but damn why is elson the one with the good contract??? pop and r.c. confuse the hell out of me, it must be because he isn't american

[furry_spurry]

well the spurs didn't want scola so it don't matter, we have enough pf, but damn why is elson the one with the good contract??? pop and r.c. confuse the hell out of me, it must be because he isn't american
You realize when the Spurs traded Rasho, they said it was because they had too many centers and needed room for more power fowards with Duncan's increased minutes at center. Now, they need centers. :lol Their story constantly changes and people who are not paying close attention buy it every time. I can't wait for the story about how Javtokas has a bad attitude or something. I know it is coming.

[Buddy Holly]

You realize when the Spurs traded Rasho, they said it was because they had too many centers and needed room for more power fowards with Duncan's increased minutes at center.

They said that? :rolleyes

[violentkitten]

man, everything is falling into place.

-mohammed walks (what a coup that trade turned out to be. lol)
-rasho dumped for expiring contracts
-spurs make half assed attempt to land decent free agent centers
-spurs make 3 year offer to francisco elson
-spurs make smaller 3 year offer to butler despite him being the tougher rfa to land
-spurs piss off javtokas and he goes to....greece. lol.

this is what happens when you are about something other than winning. this is what happens when the player-personnel types are stifled by non-basketball related crap.

this team is not about winning now. it's about putting on the appearance of contending. fuck that.

ludden has an article this offseason that's coming up. it's going to be about how the evil luxury tax has hampered the spurs this summer. holt will probably slip him a benjamin for that.

[ducks]

furry-spurry it is already out
jav pubically said he wanted playing time though before spurs made the offers today
he did not know if he could beat out nazr or rasho..

[infinite styles]

They said that? :rolleyes

I was trying to figure out when that was said myself. Anyways, if the Spurs get both then great if not then fine....the season hasn't started yet and we just gotta wait and see.

[violentkitten]

You realize when the Spurs traded Rasho, they said it was because they had too many centers and needed room for more power fowards with Duncan's increased minutes at center. Now, they need centers. :lol Their story constantly changes and people who are not paying close attention buy it every time. I can't wait for the story about how Javtokas has a bad attitude or something. I know it is coming.

what? the spurs are never misleading. lol.

lol you are right about the upcoming javtokas story. within a day or so he'll be the most hated lithuanian in san antonio history, edging out sarunas for his role in the '91 playoff debacle. cant wait.

[Buddy Holly]

man, everything is falling into place.

-mohammed walks (what a coup that trade turned out to be. lol)

http://www.hhweb.com/nba2005champs/SpursGroupFinals_small_small.jpg

[violentkitten]

yeah, mohammed was a huge factor in that championship run...when he left the court for horry to come in.

[Buddy Holly]

yeah, mohammed was a huge factor in that championship run...when he left the court for horry to come in.


Did you even watch the finals?

[violentkitten]

yes. apparently you did not.

[milkyway21]

so elson got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at about $2.8 mil per and butler got a 3 yr offer sheet starting at $2.2 mil per.

from what i read from Express News the real deal was:
The Spurs divided their $5.2million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6million.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071306.1C.BKNspurs.vaughn.1585d2f.html

BTW, I have the feeling elson is going to be a Spur next season based on this article.

Speaking to reporters in Denver on Wednesday, Nuggets coach George Karl said it would "probably be a danger for us to match" the offer for Elson.

"He hated to be called an insurance policy," Karl said, "but he was."

Elson, whose nickname among the Nuggets was "Geico," said he doesn't know whether the Nuggets will keep him.

"My concern right now is that hopefully (my future is) with the Spurs," Elson said. "They're a great organization and championship-caliber type team. Shoot, anyone would like to play for the Spurs

[timvp]

I can hear George Karl laughing from here.

[polandprzem]

I woke up and those are the news I get? Great.






























:pctoss

[Dre_7]

I can hear George Karl laughing from here.

Why are you so upset? The Spurs still have Matt Bonner. :lol

[violentkitten]

from what i read from Express News the real deal was:
The Spurs divided their $5.2million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6million.

right, as i stated, butler's deal starts at $2.2 mil per. elson's deal starts at $2.8 mil. the only question is whether elson got 2 or 3 years.

[timvp]

Why are you so upset? The Spurs still have Matt Bonner. :lol
And the jokes keep coming. Keep it up.

[timvp]

Buckner bolts to Mavericks
Center Elson signs an offer sheet with the San Antonio Spurs, but the Nuggets have a week to match.
By Adam Thompson and Marc J. Spears

The Nuggets anchored their main attraction to the Pepsi Center on Wednesday but failed to do the same with members of their supporting cast.

On the day they trumpeted Anthony's extension, unrestricted guard Greg Buckner signed with Dallas and restricted center Francisco Elson inked an offer sheet with San Antonio.

Buckner will receive at least three years guaranteed, with options leaving the door open for two more. At best, he could make just less than $19 million over five years, though a more likely scenario would have him make about $15 million over four.

While Buckner is gone for good, the Nuggets still have a week to match what is believed to be a two-year, $6 million offer to Elson. However, coach George Karl did not sound optimistic about it, calling it a "danger" for Denver to match the deal.

"Hopefully Francisco feels we helped him in this process and he got better," Karl said. "He's a proven player who will have to be replaced, and it will be a difficult replacement."

Meanwhile, Buckner said he was happy after landing at what he called his first choice.

"It's crazy it worked out," he said.

Aside from serving as a defensive specialist, the two-guard represented Denver's top perimeter threat on a team that finished last in the NBA in 3-point shooting this past season. Buckner's .354 3-point percentage may not have been phenomenal, but his 86 3-pointers easily led the team, and he averaged a career-high 6.7 points.

Nuggets director of player personnel Mark Warkentien was on the phone with Buckner's agent until about 12:30 a.m. Wednesday before conceding.

Warkentien thanked Buckner for his two years in Denver. As for shoring up the team's weakened outside shooting, he said: "It's not easy by definition. But we just press on."

With the Nuggets having committed approximately $140 million to Anthony and Nene this summer, Buckner said he figured his return would be a longshot.

"My time in Denver was great," he said, later adding: "They wanted to take care of their young kids. I thought it was going to work out that way. You have to take care of Melo and Nene. There wasn't much money left."

Dallas owner Mark Cuban expressed pleasure in bringing Buckner back to the team that drafted him.

"'Buck' is a warrior who has expanded his offensive game considerably," Cuban said in an e-mail. "We are excited to add the pride of Hopkinsville (Ky.) to the Mavs."

All of the Nuggets' top big men have battled injuries in the past, meaning the Nuggets will have to find a player like Elson if they let him walk.

The Dutchman averaged 4.9 points and 4.7 rebounds with the Nuggets last season, his third with the team. His ability to play in a pinch - Denver went 32-22 when he started last season - earned him the nickname "Geico."

"You're sad," Karl said. "He was fun for us this year. He hated to be called an insurance policy, but he was."

Before news of Elson's contract surfaced Wednesday, the center gave little away in discussing his preferences.

"The San Antonio Spurs are a good team, but whatever happens, happens," he said.

[timvp]

Make room George Gervin, David Robinson and Tim Duncan, it looks like Francisco Elson is coming to town!

[Buddy Holly]

2 year deal it seems.

[milkyway21]

Why are you so upset? The Spurs still have Matt Bonner. :lol:lmao :lmao :lmao

[violentkitten]

bonner could be starting by december if elson is slated to take over the starting 5 spot

[Please_dont_ban_me]

bonner could be starting by december if elson is slated to take over the starting 5 spot

Bonner is a glorified Sean Marks...let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Kori Ellis]

Why are you so upset? The Spurs still have Matt Bonner. :lol

Your sarcasm is getting annoying. Talk basketball.

Bonner isn't a starting center.

I know you think the Bonner signing is a joke, but it serves a purpose. He's an outside shooter that can spread the floor.

The Spurs still need another player to do what starting centers do ... rebound, block shots, defend. Hopefully the center spot isn't Elson backed up by Oberto or it's going to be a long season.

[violentkitten]

it's not that bonner is that great, it's that elson sucks that hard. duncan will have to replace his ass in the starting lineup barring any trades or lucking out on butler.

[violentkitten]

seriously, if elson is it as far as bigman additions to the team then duncan will move to the 5 spot 'officially'. i have a feeling the spurs would like to see that. then start bonner or horry or whoever at the 4.

[Dre_7]

Your sarcasm is getting annoying. Talk basketball.

Bonner isn't a starting center.

I know you think the Bonner signing is a joke, but it serves a purpose. He's an outside shooter that can spread the floor.

The Spurs still need another player to do what starting centers do ... rebound, block shots, defend. Hopefully the center spot isn't Elson backed up by Oberto or it's going to be a long season.

I love the Bonner trade. It got rid of Rasho and his contract. I was making those remarks because timvp was bashing Elson every chance he got, while when the Spurs got Bonner he was all high on him. When I think that Elson is a better player than Bonner. Thats why I made that comment.

[Kori Ellis]

I love the Bonner trade. It got rid of Rasho and his contract. I was making those remarks because timvp was bashing Elson every chance he got, while when the Spurs got Bonner he was all high on him. When I think that Elson is a better player than Bonner. Thats why I made that comment.

I get that. You've made the comment repeatedly.

Bonner is good for what he is. A 3-point shooter who spreads the floor.

How is Elson good for what he is? (And please don't say he's a shotblocker)

[Please_dont_ban_me]

seriously, if elson is it as far as bigman additions to the team then duncan will move to the 5 spot 'officially'. i have a feeling the spurs would like to see that. then start bonner or horry or whoever at the 4.

So let me get this straight:

1) The Spurs are sabotoging the roster so Duncan gets stuck at center.

2) The Spurs should build for now, so in 5 years we can suck and get high draft picks to help the team build around Tony Parker.






Your logic is brilliant, man.

[polandprzem]

I get that. You've made the comment repeatedly.

Bonner is good for what he is. A 3-point shooter who spreads the floor.

How is Elson good for what he is? (And please don't say he's a shotblocker)

He is quite fast :angel

[Dre_7]

I get that. You've made the comment repeatedly.

Bonner is good for what he is. A 3-point shooter who spreads the floor.

How is Elson good for what he is? (And please don't say he's a shotblocker)

From what I saw from him last year, he looked like an aggresive big man who fights for boards and is a decent defender. He looked alot better than Rasho or Nazr. I never said he was a "shotblocker." I think he will fit in well as the Spurs starting Center. Is he my first choice? No. It would be nice if they can find a way to get another Center to split time with Elson. But if they dont find a better Center than Elson, I think the Spurs will be okay.

Thats even if what Karl says is true and Denver doesnt match. But if they dont, I (unlike several others here) will be happy with the fact that the Spurs got a decent big man who can rebound and defend.

[timvp]

Trouble is Elson isn't a good rebounder. He's on the same level as Rasho and Horry.

[violentkitten]

So let me get this straight:

1) The Spurs are sabotoging the roster so Duncan gets stuck at center.

2) The Spurs should build for now, so in 5 years we can suck and get high draft picks to help the team build around Tony Parker.

Your logic is brilliant, man.


the spurs have weakened the 5 spot so duncan moves there. based on what the spurs have said about how the league is moving to ever more athletic 4s and comments about duncan moving to the 5 that is not that surprising. the spurs won their last title with duncan at the 5 and horry at the 4 for most of the games anyways. fans are hung up on the twin towers concept.

yeah, i think the spurs should do what they can to win titles now and not worry about 2011. not sure where you see an inconsistency, but i'll chalk it up to you being up past your bedtime.

compared to you, tpark is brilliant.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

the spurs have weakened the 5 spot so duncan moves there. based on what the spurs have said about how the league is moving to ever more athletic 4s and comments about duncan moving to the 5 that is not that surprising. the spurs won their last title with duncan at the 5 and horry at the 4 for most of the games anyways. fans are hung up on the twin towers concept.

yeah, i think the spurs should do what they can to win titles now and not worry about 2011.

compared to you, tpark is brilliant.

Moving Ducan to the 5 is one thing, saying the front office wouldn't mind seeing that and implying they brought in scrubs to ensure it happens is another.

Good for you, I think we should do what we can to win now as well as ensure we're still competitive in years to come.



Compared to you...nvmnd, I won't stoop to your level.

[violentkitten]

Moving Ducan to the 5 is one thing, saying the front office wouldn't mind seeing that and implying they brought in scrubs to ensure it happens is another.

what's wrong with saying that the front office wouldnt mind duncan moving to the 5? that would solve a lot of problems. he's the best center in the league. finding a decent center is expensive and somewhat redundant. so bring in crap and force td to play center.




Good for you, I think we should do what we can to win now as well as ensure we're still competitive in years to come.


once duncan and manu are gone, this team's window is closed. francisco won't be able to save them.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

what's wrong with saying that the front office wouldnt mind duncan moving to the 5? that would solve a lot of problems. he's the best center in the league. finding a decent center is expensive and somewhat redundant. so bring in crap and force td to play center.




once duncan and manu are gone, this team's window is closed. francisco won't be able to save them.

This is painful.


Ok...There's nothing wrong with Duncan playing the 5. However you sayig they "brougt in crap and force him to play center" is just stupid. There's some conspiracy theorists out there, but I don't think any of them have a team wasting 9 million for an illusion to get your superstar to play center instead of power forward.

Again, Elson won't...but his contract will help us. He's a mercenary (spelling?). Whih seems the route the spurs are going. Hire somebody to fit around our big 3 for two or three years than get rid of them. That' what Horry is, that's what Finley is, that's what Elson will be.



I'm done for the night, G'nite my lovely's.

[milkyway21]

Bonner isn't a starting center.

I know you think the Bonner signing is a joke, but it serves a purpose. He's an outside shooter that can spread the floor.
The Spurs still need another player to do what starting centers do ... rebound, block shots, defend. Hopefully the center spot isn't Elson backed up by Oberto or it's going to be a long season.this what makes me a little bit optomistic about the Spurs' future esp in the 2006-07 season.
Stephen Jackson was an unknown when he came to play for us, there was a lot of doubts about Nazr too. Now they are playing for Indiana and Detroit commanding big contracts.

Let's just hope for the best. I'm looking forward to see a lot of improvement form Oberto too esp now that Duncan might play center.

[Mr. Body]

You're excited about Bonner? Seriously?

[Buddy Holly]

You're excited about Bonner? Seriously?

Why not?

Because he looks dorky and is white?

The guy can fucking shot like it's nobodies business.

[Mr. Body]

Okay, so you're excited about Bonner. ...Seriously?

[ro_50]

Here is what a Nuggets fan said about Elson on a Denver Broncos site I frequent.

"On a good night, he can be a serviceable big man who can grab some rebounds for you. On a bad night, he's a foul machine who'll be headed back to the bench just as fast as he got off of it. He shows flashes sometimes that make you think that he could be a pretty decent player and then will wash those away by showing a serious lack of basketball IQ. He's tall with long arms, but can be awfully clumsy. Could be a solid bench guy if he ever lives up to his potential.

The most noteworthy thing he's done in his time in Denver was during the '04 playoffs when he called Kevin Garnett "gay."

[Mr. Body]

Sounds like a winner. Exactly the sorbet to wash away the meaty meal that was Robertas Javtokas.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

4 Points
4 Boards


Those are his stats in 20 minutes per game last season.

As a starter here playing around 30 minutes a game I would say he goes for at least 8 points, 6 boards. I don't think that's a stretch.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, he did start 54 games last season.

5.6 pts, 5.4 reb in 24.7 minutes.

I wouldn't expect much more than that.

[ro_50]

4 Points
4 Boards


Those are his stats in 20 minutes per game last season.

As a starter here playing around 30 minutes a game I would say he goes for at least 8 points, 6 boards. I don't think that's a stretch.


I mean, he cant be any worse than Rasho and I think the Spurs are looking for someone to fill that void for 15-20 mins a game and coming at a reasonable price, which for a center w/ those type of contributions, $3 million per is ideal versus what Nazr is going to make and how much they were spending for Rasho.

Come to think of it, I dont mind him coming on board as long as he plays hard and does what he is expected too do - which is take to up space, hit the occasional J and rebound w/ aggression. He seems to fit that mold.

[Mr. Body]

Francisco Elson will come in to establish a high foul count earlier in the quarter. This slows down the ends of quarters with lots of free throws from the opposition, which works to our advantage in pace.

[waly.mg]

Okay, so you're excited about Bonner. ...Seriously?

Yeah, "BIG SHOT BON"

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

[violentkitten]

starting center francisco elson will precede starting center tim duncan

[Mr. Body]

I think it's closer to Duncan playing both starting center AND starting power forward at the same time, while Francisco Elson will still be labelled a bench player despite standing on the floor at tip-off.

That's another sucky thing about kicking Jav to the curb; we never would have lost the opening tip.

[benjirh]

Elson is a proven role player. He will NOT be expected to start. I have seen elson play and have friends who live near denver and watch the games. No complaints here. He will get roughly 2.8 mil this year. Not overspending. He is more proven than Butler and has actually started games for a Denver team that was fighting for the playoffs. Denver probably won't match, not because they think Elson is awful, but because they have three bigs right now who will all get big minutes and they usually fill their backup roles with fodder. Hence Elsons first contract. He is not a premier shot blocker, rebounder, or low post scorer. But you can't get one of those for the mle anyways, so quit complaining.

[Mr. Body]

Of course Elson starts. Who else is gonna?

[violentkitten]

elson will start for about the first 15 games until it is apparent that is a ruefully bad idea and then bonner or horry will make it into the starting lineup. maybe the spurs will finally stop pretending that td is a power forward and announce him as the starting center

francisco elson will force tim duncan to change starting spots. he sucks that hard.

[Mr. Body]

I'd love to see a Bonner-Duncan-Bowen front line. We'll get out-rebounded by about 20 a game.

With Elson, the margin would be only 15.

[waly.mg]

The Facts are:

Bonner was the Starter Center of the Raptors sometimes
Oberto was the Starter center in Argentina in the World Championship and the Olympics and in both Victorys vs USA

I Think Oberto or Bonner, or if Pop want Horry like in sometimes in the PO, because in the start sometimes there are other center in the team, but in the end of the game, the center is Duncan

Bonner with his great FT% can clase a lot of games, and probably can take some rebound in the 4th, because we haven´t rebounds form everyone not named TD in the Clutch

[Mr. Body]

Don't expect rebounds from Bonner. They're like a tasty gravy, but don't expect them. You'll be saying more often than not, "where's my tasty gravy?"

[z0sa]

i think bonner will do better than people think he will.

[Hardcor]

I think Bonner has a new nickname: Matt "Gravy" Bonner. I like it.

[pache100]

I mean, he cant be any worse than Rasho

Isn't that what we thought when we got Nazr?

[timvp]

Francisco Freakin' Elson. I still can't believe it.

Here are some stats that should keep you up at night.

In the playoffs, the Nuggets outscored the Clippers 100-94 per 100 possessions when Elson was out of the game. When Elson was in the game, they were outscored 123-84 per 100 possesions.

Are you kidding me?

:pctoss

[timvp]

When Elson was on the court, the Clippers shot 58.9%. When Elson was sitting on the bench, the Clippers shot 44.8%.

Don't even get me started on how bad the Nuggets were outrebounded when Elson was on the court.

:pctoss :pctoss

[Extra Stout]

Francisco Freakin' Elson. I still can't believe it.

Here are some stats that should keep you up at night.

In the playoffs, the Nuggets outscored the Clippers 100-94 per 100 possessions when Elson was out of the game. When Elson was in the game, they were outscored 123-84 per 100 possesions.

Are you kidding me?

:pctoss
This will all make sense when Manu "suffers" a "season-ending injury" in the WC's, Duncan "blows his knee" in training camp, and Parker is in and out of the lineup with "nagging ailments."

19-63. The Tank for Greg Oden Sweepstakes... coming soon.

[Mr. Body]

Pretty much now I think the R.C. Buford made a "Trading Places" kind of bet. Swap Francisco Elson for Robertas Javtokas and, if they can still make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, Pop owes him $1.

[Extra Stout]

Beno Udrih.

Brent Barry.

Bruce Bowen.

Matt Bonner.

Francisco Elson!

Ladies and gentleman, the starting lineup for yooouuuuur San Antonio Spurs!

[timvp]

Oh wait it gets better.

You thought Rasho was soft?

Well Elson didn't attempt a shot in the paint in the playoffs. Didn't even try. In 80+ minutes. In the playoffs. Do or die.

[Extra Stout]

That's the end of the first quarter with the score, your Spurs 8, the Charlotte Bobcats 30.

Help 'em out!

[ducks]

george karl is a terrible coach

[Extra Stout]

Tanking for Greg Oden solves the frontline issues.

[timvp]

Who was last in +/- on the Nuggets in the playoffs? That's right, Francisco Elson.

Per 48 minutes that he was on the court, the Nuggets were outscored 115-78. In each of the five games, he brought home a negative +/-.

[ducks]

brand is atleast on of the best bigs in the nba now though

[Obstructed_View]

Who was last in +/- on the Nuggets in the playoffs? That's right, Francisco Elson.

Per 48 minutes that he was on the court, the Nuggets were outscored 115-78. In each of the five games, he brought home a negative +/-.
So the Nuggets probably won't be matching the offer then...

[timvp]

So the Nuggets probably won't be matching the offer then...

I think I still hear George Karl laughing. This is like if someone gave Sean Marks a 2-year, $8M deal.

[Obstructed_View]

I think I still hear George Karl laughing. This is like if someone gave Sean Marks a 2-year, $8M deal.
:lol

Really, with what I've been hearing about how terrible Rasho and Nazr have been, how could he be worse?

[timvp]

:lol

Really, with what I've been hearing about how terrible Rasho and Nazr have been, how could he be worse?

Famous last words.

[Obstructed_View]

Famous last words.
Worst case scenario, he doesn't play in the playoffs and the Spurs lose in overtime of game 7. Sounds like a wash to me.

[furry_spurry]

Said all summer- Oberto will start. Should have marked that post when I first predicted it.

[furry_spurry]

Really, with what I've been hearing about how terrible Rasho and Nazr have been, how could he be worse?

Let's see- Nazr's brains and Nazr's hands with Rasho's rebounding. :lol And without Rasho's shot blocking or defense.

[Obstructed_View]

Let's see- Nazr's brains and Nazr's hands with Rasho's rebounding. :lol And without Rasho's shot blocking or defense.
All that equals zero minutes in the playoffs for millions less than Nazr and Rasho. :tu

[T Park]

Nugget fan comes in and says the guy is a pretty good player,


guess that guy doesn't know shit about basketball.

[furry_spurry]

All that equals zero minutes in the playoffs for millions less than Nazr and Rasho. :tu
If I recall, the Spurs did play someone else besides Dallas.

[Obstructed_View]

If I recall, the Spurs did play someone else besides Dallas.
Sorry, I don't see your point, as I assume you know I'm aware of that. Does it matter to you somehow that the Spurs lost in the second round instead of the first? This team is way beyond moral victories. Seriously, maybe I don't understand what you mean.

[T Park]

Spurs did play someone else besides Dallas.

Yeah Nazr and Rasho were more than pathetic vs Sacramento too.



Whats your point.


Whos available they should get?


Everyone bitches about who the Spurs go after, but never give names of who to get.

[timvp]

For Kroenke, luxury tax looms
By Chris Tomasson, Rocky Mountain News
July 14, 2006

Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke plays it coy when asked about his willingness to pay the luxury tax. But some additional clues about his thinking might surface in the next week.

The Nuggets are expected to receive a two-year, $6 million offer sheet from the San Antonio Spurs on restricted free agent center Francisco Elson. They would have seven days to match.

The Nuggets did not report Thursday an offer sheet as having arrived.

"They should have it by (today)," Elson's agent, Calvin Andrews, said.

Kroenke said "we'll have to see" about paying the tax. When Nene signs a six-year, $60 million deal next week as expected, the Nuggets will have 10 players with guaranteed contracts next season totaling $59 million.

The luxury tax is $65.4 million.

The Nuggets already have taken a pass on free agent guard Greg Buckner, who signed a deal Thursday with the Dallas Mavericks that could be worth as much as $19 million over five years.

Nuggets coach George Karl said Wednesday that Elson's offer sheet would be a "dangerous number" to match. Nuggets director of player personnel Mark Warkentien would not speculate Thursday because he had not seen an offer sheet.

The Nuggets could clear payroll during the seven-day window. It is possible disgruntled forward Kenyon Martin could be traded.

"It they do lose Kenyon, that might change Francisco's value," Andrews said.

Elson hopes the Nuggets don't match.

"My concern right now is that, hopefully, (my future) is with the Spurs," Elson told the San Antonio Express- News. "Shoot, anyone would like to play for the Spurs."

The Nuggets also must decide what do with free agent forward Reggie Evans.

Asked about his situation, Evans said, "I don't even know."

At least the Nuggets got a bit more wiggle room when the luxury tax came in higher than the $64 million figure many projected.

"It's good," Kroenke said. "It gives you more flexibility."

Hey, it looks like the Nuggets might match :D

[ChumpDumper]

Unless they found dome dumbass to take KMart, no match.

[T Park]

If the Knicks take KMart.

Could that result in a wonderfull scenario for TIMVP

in that the Spurs get Butler, but don't get Elson????



Anything to quiet the bitching around here...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elson update

Warkentien said the Nuggets will evaluate the two-year, $6 million offer sheet San Antonio made to restricted free-agent center Francisco Elson.

Elson signed it Wednesday, though because of delays in transmitting the contract to Denver, the Nuggets' seven-day period to match did not begin until Thursday.

"We'll make a decision on day six or seven," Warkentien said.

Elson's agent, Calvin Andrews, said he did not know whether the Nuggets would match, though Karl spoke pessimistically about that prospect Wednesday. Elson also sounded prepared to join another team.

"Obviously I expect to get a lot of minutes," he said Wednesday. "The time that I spent here and the experience that I got from here, hopefully, it carries over to the next team that I'm going to."
-Denver Post

[pache100]

Obviously I expect to get a lot of minutes," he said Wednesday. "The time that I spent here and the experience that I got from here, hopefully, it carries over to the next team that I'm going to."


Bring it on! I'm all for Butler and Elson duking it out for the job. That should mean that we get the best from both of them until a starter is determined.

[NBA Junkie]

Nuggets will match if Reggie Evans doesn't back off his demands of wanting the MLE.

Elson isn't as good of a rebounder, but the Nuggets will be thin up front if Kenyon is traded and Evans bolts.

[Mr. Body]

I can only hope they match.

[benjirh]

tell me again why we hate Elson so much. Who would we rather have for that price? No other center is going off the board for that little and that short of a time length.

[Mr. Body]

Who would we rather have for that price?

Javtokas.

[benjirh]

obviously he isn't or else we would have him, don't you think.

[Mr. Body]

isn't what?

[benjirh]

What i am saying is that we couldn't sign him for that price or that short of contract. I am assuming the spurs offered him roughly half the mle and he turned it down.

[Mr. Body]

What i am saying is that we couldn't sign him for that price or that short of contract. I am assuming the spurs offered him roughly half the mle and he turned it down.

I don't believe we offered him a contract at all. There are conflicting reports. From what I understand, Elson's contract would have been well enough to land Javtokas. The RJ camp was expecting something similar, but the Spurs called him up in the morning of the 12th and told him they were going in another direction instead. They were stunned and are probably still stunned. I'm stunned.

[benjirh]

Maybe so. I thought I read on ESPN that Javtokas was dissapointed with what the spurs offered and that is why decided to head to greece.

[Mr. Body]

It may never be clear, but everything seems to be pointing to the Spurs simply wanting Elson over him.

[benjirh]

My issue with javtokas is that he has no experience in the nba. Last year at this time many were saying that oberto was going to start along side duncan or at least get big minutes off the bench. He didn't even average double digit minutes with two guys we weren't even sold on in front of him. I have a very hard time picturing Javtokas doing a whole lot more.

[benjirh]

It may never be clear, but everything seems to be pointing to the Spurs simply wanting Elson over him.

And if that is the case, I trust them over my own thoughts. The spurs have had first hand opportunities to see all these guys and they know what they can get out of them. Maybe there are medical concerns they still have with Javtokas. Who knows, but I am assuming they know better than I do.

[Mr. Body]

I hope you're right, benjirh. In my mind they made an awful choice for the wrong reasons. Elson, as timvp has demonstrated statistically, is at times worse than nothing.

[Extra Stout]

tell me again why we hate Elson so much. Who would we rather have for that price? No other center is going off the board for that little and that short of a time length.
The point is not whether Elson is acceptable for the price. The point is that the Spurs are having to fill gaping holes in their rotation with bargain-basement players who have little likelihood of making any positive impact.

Oh well, I guess that is the price they have to pay for going for broke with Barry and Finley the past two years, and for the mistake of signing Rasho. Eventually it catches up with you. Too bad it has to be when so much of the rotation is getting old and gray.

Looking at the way the payroll is structured, luckily there probably will be just the one lost season. Next year, they have a ton of expiring contracts.

[benjirh]

The point is not whether Elson is acceptable for the price. The point is that the Spurs are having to fill gaping holes in their rotation with bargain-basement players who have little likelihood of making any positive impact.

Oh well, I guess that is the price they have to pay for going for broke with Barry and Finley the past two years, and for the mistake of signing Rasho. Eventually it catches up with you. Too bad it has to be when so much of the rotation is getting old and gray.

Looking at the way the payroll is structured, luckily there probably will be just the one lost season. Next year, they have a ton of expiring contracts.

No that is the price you pay for having three guys who command big money. Dun, Gin, and Par use up more than half the Cap. Then when you keep 7 other players from the previous year. You will have little spending room. Why lock yourself down on a guy who is going to produce sub par. We have a star PG, a star swing, and a star bigman. The rest matters very little.

[benjirh]

I hope you're right, benjirh. In my mind they made an awful choice for the wrong reasons. Elson, as timvp has demonstrated statistically, is at times worse than nothing.

Just for personal curiosity, what were those stats that timvp threw out. I think I missed them.

As far as elson goes, I still don't see the spurs planning on starting him. And for a backup, we did all right. I guess if they do start him, I will be a little surprised and confused.

[Extra Stout]

No that is the price you pay for having three guys who command big money. Dun, Gin, and Par use up more than half the Cap. Then when you keep 7 other players from the previous year. You will have little spending room. Why lock yourself down on a guy who is going to produce sub par. We have a star PG, a star swing, and a star bigman. The rest matters very little.
The big 3 will win you 50-55 games. If you're content with that, then you'll be OK with this season.

The Spurs spent much of the 1990's working under the notion that it was OK to have gaping holes in the lineup filled by the Vinny del Negros and Will Perdues of the world because the play of their stars was enough to compensate. That worked like gangbusters in the regular season.

Then, in the playoffs, the other elite teams took those gaping holes and ripped the Spurs apart.

[Mr. Body]

Just for personal curiosity, what were those stats that timvp threw out. I think I missed them.

As far as elson goes, I still don't see the spurs planning on starting him. And for a backup, we did all right. I guess if they do start him, I will be a little surprised and confused.

Those stats, I think, are in this thread in a string of posts dealing with his playoffs last year, where his production was by far the worst of any Denver player, and how the Clippers badly outscored the Nuggs when he was in the game - while Denver pulled more than even in the minutes he wasn't.

I don't see any other starter on the squad. That's why I'm saying Elson is the starter. You can start Oberto, perhaps, but if you can, then why sign such a pitiful player like Elson?

[benjirh]

So what are our gaping holes? Other than center, i think we are pretty stacked. And if we pull in butler and elson, i have no worries.

[SA210]

I can't believe we are talking about all this crap and Javtokas is out of the picture.

:pctoss

[Mr. Body]

SA210 - I know man, I know. We hate athletic, aggressive centers with mean streaks.

I'm still... holy shit, we passed on Javtokas! :depressed


:madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun

[benjirh]

I think they go small with either bonner or horry more of the time.

[Mr. Body]

I think they go small with either bonner or horry more of the time.

Our team is allergic to rebounding.

[SA210]

SA210 - I know man, I know. We hate athletic, aggressive centers with mean streaks.

I'm still... holy shit, we passed on Javtokas! :depressed


:madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun

I just can't get over this. One of the dumbest decisions, I swear!

:pctoss :madrun :wtf :shootme :bang :frying: :td :smchode: :yield:hang :cuss :cry :jack

[Phonzie20]

george karl is a terrible coach

I'm a believer :(

[Phonzie20]

you went after our Eason. You will pay!

[Mr. Body]

Please tell me the Nuggets match Francisco Elson.

[Phonzie20]

Please tell me the Nuggets match Francisco Elson.

I hope we do.

[SA210]

So to get any shot at Javtokas at all, I'm assuming that the Spurs would have to get denied Elson and Butler today, right now, right?

:pctoss

[NBA Junkie]

george karl is a terrible coach

I strongly disagree.

He's a very good head coach that has turned every team around that was struggling before he took over. However, he's not a championship caliber coach.

The main problem with Karl is that he's a good 2-3 year coach and then he quickly wears out his welcome. Doesn't make him a terrible coach. Just not a good long term solution.

[leemajors]

I strongly disagree.

He's a very good head coach that has turned every team around that was struggling before he took over. However, he's not a championship caliber coach.

The main problem with Karl is that he's a good 2-3 year coach and then he quickly wears out his welcome. Doesn't make him a terrible coach. Just not a good long term solution.

correct, karl is a good coach that grates on his players after a while.

[Phonzie20]

I strongly disagree.

He's a very good head coach that has turned every team around that was struggling before he took over. However, he's not a championship caliber coach.

The main problem with Karl is that he's a good 2-3 year coach and then he quickly wears out his welcome. Doesn't make him a terrible coach. Just not a good long term solution.

For lack of a better word... perfect!

[Kori Ellis]

The Nuggets must decide whether to match a two-year, $6 million offer sheet given to free-agent center Francisco Elson by the San Antonio Spurs.

Warkentien received the offer late Thursday night, and Denver has until July 20 to match the deal, which is believed to be evenly split at $3 million this season and $3 million in 2007-08.

"You can rest assured that decision won't be made until the sixth or seventh day," Warkentien said. "We'll take our full time to ponder that and ponder market conditions."

Warkentien and Elson spoke Thursday, but the discussion gave the 7-foot center little clue how things will turn out next week.

"They're making me wait and making me kind of nervous," Elson said Friday night.

Elson, who averaged 4.9 points and 4.7 rebounds last season, has been a part-time player in each of his three seasons in Denver and would prefer to play for the Spurs, who could offer more playing time.

Warkentien said Elson's preference would be one of the factors in making a final decision.

"Everything's considered," he said. "Cisco's been with us a number of years. Decisions aren't going to be based on the last couple days."

Elson, who will quadruple his 2005-06 salary, could be a domino of sorts.

His return or departure will have implications for free-agent forward Reggie Evans and unhappy forward Kenyon Martin.

Evans is seeking his own deal with a first-year salary around the midlevel exception, while Martin would become even more expendable if Elson returns as another option in the middle.

Warkentien declined to comment Friday on negotiations with Evans, whose agent, Dan Fegan, did not return phone messages.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_4846734,00.html

[Bruno]

which is believed to be evenly split at $3 million this season and $3 million in 2007-08.

Interesting. That means that Spurs have made offers that put them $400k-$600k over the tax threshold (even if they waive Sanders, Melzer and Smith), it's a good sign that Spurs will do another move.

[ChumpDumper]

So Evans is a bit more expensive than we thought.

[ducks]

if they do not resign evans and just decide to let him walk
I bet they match elson

[T Park]

Evans thinks hes worth the MLE?

:lmao

[ducks]

that is why wolves pulled out of the evans sweepstakes

[Quadzilla99]

Evans thinks hes worth the MLE?

:lmao
Yeah that's what I thought too. Pricey for a guy who's never been more than around 20 mpg in any season.

[ChumpDumper]

Well he'll be available well into August if we don't sign anyone in the meantime. :domokun

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Nuggets are trading for JR Smith. This blurb in the Rocky Mountain news has something interesting in it. Maybe the first part of everyone's prayers have been answered. The Knicks will have to help with the second part.


With the Nuggets approaching the luxury tax of $65.4 million, getting an economical contract such as Smith's could help. With a Smith acquisition and with Nene signing a six-year, $60 million contract this week, the Nuggets would be in line to have 11 players with guaranteed deals totaling just more than $60 million.

Acquiring Smith also might give the Nuggets more of a desire to match the two-year, $6 million offer sheet given last week by San Antonio to restricted free-agent center Francisco Elson. The Nuggets have until Thursday to decide.

[Mr. Body]

Crap. At this point, Elson getting matched would be disastrous. Hope that doesn't happen.

[ducks]

rember evans still wants the full mle

[Gino20]

I think Elson will work out good......he can run the court and that was something the Spurs needed bad! Rasho and Nazr were unable to help the team in the playoffs. At least this big man will be able to get some mins imho. He will average the same stats as Rasho and Nazr too! They may not be huge numbers, but still......I am really only concerned with rebounding. Hope the Spurs do something about this.

[furry_spurry]

I think Elson will work out good......he can run the court and that was something the Spurs needed bad! Rasho and Nazr were unable to help the team in the playoffs. At least this big man will be able to get some mins imho. He will average the same stats as Rasho and Nazr too! They may not be huge numbers, but still......I am really only concerned with rebounding. Hope the Spurs do something about this.
I'm still trying to figure out how people think that Elson would get minutes- he still can't cover Dirk? As long as Tim doesn't cover Dirk, no center will play against Dallas. Simple. And when Horry is only getting 15 minutes per game himself, just how much do you expect any 3rd big man to get during the playoffs.

[mabber]

I'm still trying to figure out how people think that Elson would get minutes- he still can't cover Dirk? As long as Tim doesn't cover Dirk, no center will play against Dallas. Simple. And when Horry is only getting 15 minutes per game himself, just how much do you expect any 3rd big man to get during the playoffs.

And he won't be able to cover anyone on the Suns. At the same time, the Spurs need a center to play against most of the rest of the league. I'm confident that the Spurs know that Elson can't cover Dirk. :lol

[waly.mg]

The Nuggets long have been searching for more than just a stopgap starter at shooting guard. While Smith is young, he is known as a solid shooter and could develop into the long-term piece the team is seeking.

Smith has a career field-goal percentage of 39.4. But he has shot 31.6 from three-point range, including 37.1 last season.

The only shooting guards currently on the Nuggets roster are Ruben Patterson, who some say is better suited for small forward, and Julius Hodge, who played sparingly last season as a rookie.

The Nuggets last week lost free agent Greg Buckner to Dallas, but there is a solid chance they will re-sign free agent DerMarr Johnson.

With the Nuggets approaching the luxury tax of $65.4 million, getting an economical contract such as Smith's could help. With a Smith acquisition and with Nene signing a six-year, $60 million contract this week, the Nuggets would be in line to have 11 players with guaranteed deals totaling just more than $60 million.

Acquiring Smith also might give the Nuggets more of a desire to match the two-year, $6 million offer sheet given last week by San Antonio to restricted free-agent center Francisco Elson. The Nuggets have until Thursday to decide.

[timvp]

I'm praying that Elson gets matched. The guy sucks during the regular season and is perhaps the worst playoff performer in any sport ever. I'd rather have nobody than Elson.

$3M/year for Elson is a worse bang for your buck then Rasho, Nazr and Malik's contracts combined.

The guy is a scrub of the highest order.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I haven't read the latest in this thread, but if it means anything (and it doesn't), Greg Simmons just said Denver's had their change of heart (which is what was probably posted above).

So unfortunately, when he says that, we know Elson's going to be in silver and black.

[E20]

87, 97, 07

Beleive!

[Bruno]

I really want Elson (Am i the only one ?).
I think he will be a good role player and $6M/2 years is a quite good contract.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Elson would be good for small ball. We don't have any big guy that can run the floor like him.

Having him as starting C is a problem though, and if he's the only pickup it will suck.

[timvp]

I really want Elson (Am i the only one ?).
I think he will be a good role player and $6M/2 years is a quite good contract.

Hopefully you are the only one :)

Check what he did in the playoffs. The Spurs don't need someone who can't play when the lights come on. Especially since he's poor at best during the regular season.

[timvp]

My opinion is the Spurs can survive the Elson signing if they also get Butler. If you told me they could split the MLE between Elson and Butler I'd take it because Butler has good potential.

Elson just sucks though. At his greatest he'd be a par player. At his worst, he'd make Spurs fans wish a 50-year-old Will Perdue was an option. Elson is just a dumb player with no skills and no upside.

If he's all the Spurs have at center next year, they might as well tank.

Seriously.

[Gino20]

I'm still trying to figure out how people think that Elson would get minutes- he still can't cover Dirk? As long as Tim doesn't cover Dirk, no center will play against Dallas. Simple. And when Horry is only getting 15 minutes per game himself, just how much do you expect any 3rd big man to get during the playoffs.

I never said anything about him covering Dirk. Duncan cannot cover Dirk either. He is awesome, but slow. However, he can cover Dirk much better then Rasho or Nazr.

[timvp]

Elson being fast is a myth. He beat Nazr down the court one time and all of a sudden Spurs fans act like he's Carl Lewis or something.

[Bruno]

I see Elson as a serviceable big man and I think that he will be a good fit with Duncan.

On the offensive end : His midrange jumpshoot will be money with Duncan in the post.

On the defensive end : His speed will help him to play decent man 2 man defense. 90% of the time our center defend the opposite PF and not the opposite C.

If he can be a decent rebounder (at least better than Rasho), he will be a valuable role player.

Add to that, that he is not old, injury prone and has no attitude troubles and for $6M/2 years (Potapenko received that contract last summer and I take Elson over Potapenko), I'm sold on him.

[timvp]

I see Elson as a serviceable big man and I think that he will be a good fit with Duncan.

On the offensive end : His midrange jumpshoot will be money with Duncan in the post.

Same thing we heard about Rasho. Truth is at most he'll attempt one or two jumpers a game and will hit about 40% of them. That doesn't do much.


On the defensive end : His speed will help him to play decent man 2 man defense. 90% of the time our center defend the opposite PF and not the opposite C.

He may be faster than your average bigman but that is negated by being uncoordinated and having a low basketball IQ.


If he can be a decent rebounder (at least better than Rasho), he will be a valuable role player.

Rasho is a better rebounder.

Scary, I know.


Add to that, that he is not old, injury prone and has no attitude troubles and for $6M/2 years (Potapenko received that contract last summer and I take Elson over Potapenko), I'm sold on him.

I'd take an NBDL player for the minimum over Elson. Elson is a has been who never was anything. Throwing away more than half of the MLE on him is insane.

[Bruno]

Same thing we heard about Rasho. Truth is at most he'll attempt one or two jumpers a game and will hit about 40% of them. That doesn't do much.

Elson is a way better jumpshooter tahn Rasho. Let him open at 16-18ft and he will hit more than 50% of his jumpshoot and score 10-12pts.




He may be faster than your average bigman but that is negated by being uncoordinated and having a low basketball IQ.

You don't need to be Einstein to play good man 2 man defense. His low BBIQ will hurt him more for team defense and Duncan is here to help him.



Rasho is a better rebounder.

Scary, I know.

I think that Elson will be a rebounder in SA than in Denver (like Rasho when he comes in SA from Minny).




I'd take an NBDL player for the minimum over Elson. Elson is a has been who never was anything. Throwing away more than half of the MLE on him is insane.


That's your opinion, mine is that it's a good signing.
Only future will tel who is right and who is wrong (if Denver doesn't match).

[timvp]

Elson is a way better jumpshooter tahn Rasho.

Not really. They both shot between 34-38% on jumpers their whole career. Last season, Elson bumped that up to 42%. Career-wise, they are about the same.


Let him open at 16-18ft and he will hit more than 50% of his jumpshoot and score 10-12pts.

10-12 points a game? A season?

First of all he won't hit 50%. Second of all, it's proven in the Spurs' system that a center with a midrange jumper doesn't get more than 1 or 2 of those shots a game. At most, the threat of being able to hit a wide open 15 footer is what counts.


You don't need to be Einstein to play good man 2 man defense. His low BBIQ will hurt him more for team defense and Duncan is here to help him.

Duncan will also be there to pick up fouls. Nazr was a good man-to-man defender but a poor team defender. In the end, his poor team defense made Spurs fans and Pop want to kill him.

The Spurs' defense is built on team defense. If you can't rotate well, you won't play.


I think that Elson will be a rebounder in SA than in Denver (like Rasho when he comes in SA from Minny).

Nazr and Raso's rebounding rates stayed pretty much the same. Perhaps Elson all of a sudden becomes a better rebounder than Rasho, but that is just hope.


That's your opinion, mine is that it's a good signing.
Only future will tel who is right and who is wrong (if Denver doesn't match).

Yeah, we'll see I guess. I must warn you that timvp is rarely wrong when it comes to pointing out bad free agent signings :)

[furry_spurry]

I never said anything about him covering Dirk.
You specifically said he would get to play in the play-offs when Rasho and Nazr did not-- that means he could play against Dallas- How?

[Obstructed_View]

You specifically said he would get to play in the play-offs when Rasho and Nazr did not-- that means he could play against Dallas- How?
It doesn't matter, because apparently Dirk can score fifty a game on anyone not named Bowen, and everybody else on the Mavericks can drop forty a game on Duncan or insert center here. The Spurs are therefore doomed.

[phxspurfan]

that would be pretty cool if we tanked and got oden, came back and won 3 more trophies

[furry_spurry]

I still do not understand the notion that Duncan could not cover Dirk- at least to start the game and set the defensive tone with two big men. A defender of Tim's calliber can't keep himself out of foul trouble and take on the toughest guy to defend on the opponent? That is still to this day the question that I want answered.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Elson and Eisley to Chicago for JR Smith...KSAT reporting it.

[ducks]

Wrong

[Sandman52]

How can you trade a RFA?

[Bruno]

Not really. They both shot between 34-38% on jumpers their whole career. Last season, Elson bumped that up to 42%. Career-wise, they are about the same.

Last season : Elson 43.4%, Rasho 37.4%.
Playing with Duncan will help Elson to have a better %.
Carreer stats make no sense foe a player who is in the league since 3 years.




10-12 points a game? A season?

First of all he won't hit 50%. Second of all, it's proven in the Spurs' system that a center with a midrange jumper doesn't get more than 1 or 2 of those shots a game. At most, the threat of being able to hit a wide open 15 footer is what counts.

I've said that he will score 10-12 points if they let him open. Elson will never be a scoring contributor but the fact that he is able to hit midrange jumpers will help Duncan.




Duncan will also be there to pick up fouls. Nazr was a good man-to-man defender but a poor team defender. In the end, his poor team defense made Spurs fans and Pop want to kill him.

The Spurs' defense is built on team defense. If you can't rotate well, you won't play.

I rather have a good man to man defender than a good team defender : the big who plays with Duncan will defend the best opposite PF/C.



Nazr and Raso's rebounding rates stayed pretty much the same. Perhaps Elson all of a sudden becomes a better rebounder than Rasho, but that is just hope.

Rasho has raised his rebounding numbers by 20%. If Elson can average 12 rebounds/48min, I will be fine with that.



Yeah, we'll see I guess. I must warn you that timvp is rarely wrong when it comes to pointing out bad free agent signings :)

I don't fear timvp, he is way overrated :)

[Please_dont_ban_me]

How can you trade a RFA?

I guess they would have to match first, then trade him.

[timvp]

Last season : Elson 43.4%, Rasho 37.4%.
Playing with Duncan will help Elson to have a better %.
Carreer stats make no sense foe a player who is in the league since 3 years.

Rasho averaged less than two jumpers per game last year. He scored less than 1.5 points per game on jumpers. Even if he had shot as well as Francisco "Reggie Miller" Elson, he would have averaged 1.6 points on jumpers.

That .2 points per game should come in handy. :drunk



I've said that he will score 10-12 points if they let him open. Elson will never be a scoring contributor but the fact that he is able to hit midrange jumpers will help Duncan.


10-12 points how often? Per game? Per month? Rasho scored 10-12 points on jumpers too.

Every 10 games.



I rather have a good man to man defender than a good team defender : the big who plays with Duncan will defend the best opposite PF/C.

Are you serious?

You'd rather have a Nazr Mohammed type defender than a Rasho Nesterovic type defender? Rasho couldn't score, rebound or do much of anything but his defense was nice.

I don't think many people would pick Nazr over Rasho in terms of defense.


Rasho has raised his rebounding numbers by 20%. If Elson can average 12 rebounds/48min, I will be fine with that.

Rasho raised his rebounding numbers ... and then they fell to an all-time new low. Like you said, last year counts more :)


I don't fear timvp, he is way overrated :)

Sincerely,

All the Spurs fans in the summer of 2003 who told timvp that Rasho was a great signing. Or that Nazr was Baby Hakeem and would average 10-10. Or that James Thomas was Dennis Rodman.

:smokin

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Rasho also passed up many open jumpers.

[Bruno]

Rasho averaged less than two jumpers per game last year. He scored less than 1.5 points per game on jumpers. Even if he had shot as well as Francisco "Reggie Miller" Elson, he would have averaged 1.6 points on jumpers.

That .2 points per game should come in handy. :drunk

It's not about the amount of points scored, it's about the threat for the opposite team. Teams will let Elson less open than Rashoor Nazr and it's a good thinh for Duncan.



10-12 points how often? Per game? Per month? Rasho scored 10-12 points on jumpers too.

Every 10 games.

How often ? If they let him wide open, quite often.



Are you serious?

You'd rather have a Nazr Mohammed type defender than a Rasho Nesterovic type defender? Rasho couldn't score, rebound or do much of anything but his defense was nice.

I don't think many people would pick Nazr over Rasho in terms of defense.

Are you serious ?
Rasho was too a good man to man defender. Bad comparaison.
I think too that Elson with a training camp will be a better team defender than Mohammed without a training camp.




Rasho raised his rebounding numbers ... and then they fell to an all-time new low. Like you said, last year counts more :)

If Elson can be an average rebounders for his two first (and only) years with Spurs, I will be fine with that. :)



Sincerely,

All the Spurs fans in the summer of 2003 who told timvp that Rasho was a great signing. Or that Nazr was Baby Hakeem and would average 10-10. Or that James Thomas was Dennis Rodman.

:smokin

Sincerely,
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21891

:smokin

[timvp]

It's not about the amount of points scored, it's about the threat for the opposite team. Teams will let Elson less open than Rashoor Nazr and it's a good thinh for Duncan.

You stole my line. That's what I said.

It's the threat that counts. Teams stayed on Nazr and Rasho because in theory they could hit jumpers.


How often ? If they let him wide open, quite often.

Nice dancing.

Impressive :)


Are you serious ?
Rasho was too a good man to man defender. Bad comparaison.
I think too that Elson with a training camp will be a better team defender than Mohammed without a training camp.

Pop soured on Rasho because of his poor rebounding and his poor man-to-man defense. Rasho, for some unknown reason, would get abused in one-on-one situations by the rim. Players would just go up right through him.

So actually, it was a nice analogy.


If Elson can be an average rebounders for his two first (and only) years with Spurs, I will be fine with that. :)

Only last year counts.

A wise man once told me that.

:smokin


Sincerely,
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21891

:smokin

Hey, we both said he had to get more aggressive. I just threw in a French joke along the way.

No offense, of course.

:smokin

[Bruno]

You stole my line. That's what I said.

It's the threat that counts. Teams stayed on Nazr and Rasho because in theory they could hit jumpers.

Because my line and your line was the same.
My line was : "Let him open at 16-18ft and he will hit more than 50% of his jumpshoot and score 10-12pts."

I have never said that Elson will score 10-12pts if he isn't open.



Pop soured on Rasho because of his poor rebounding and his poor man-to-man defense. Rasho, for some unknown reason, would get abused in one-on-one situations by the rim. Players would just go up right through him.

So actually, it was a nice analogy.

Rasho was a way better man to man defender than Nazr was a team defender.
It's like saying that slashers are better than jumpshooters in nba today and taking Dwayne Wade as slasher example and Brent Barry as jumpshooter example.




Only last year counts.

A wise man once told me that.

:smokin

So Spurs will against Mavs forever. :depressed




Hey, we both said he had to get more aggressive. I just threw in a French joke along the way.

No offense, of course.

:smokin

No offense, of course.
You called him the most passive players, it's quite different.
You are sometimes wrong, it's not because the great :worthy: timvp :worthy: say something that it will happen.

[Gino20]

You specifically said he would get to play in the play-offs when Rasho and Nazr did not-- that means he could play against Dallas- How?

Ok, well who else can guard Dirk then? If you are willing to throw Duncan in there, expect him to be fouled out by the 3rd quarter. Bowen did as good as he can. However, his size was a factor. From the looks of things, Elson and E Will will have to share the load if they are both on the roster. Horry cannot guard Dirk either. Oh yeah, how do you even know we will play Dallas in the playoffs? Dirk is a concern, but he is not the only guy on the roster that gave us a hard time. Ummmm.....there was Terry and Howard. Lets focus on the team.

[furry_spurry]

^YOU are the one who said the benefit of Elson is that he would have played in the playoffs when Nazr and Rasho didn't. No way he would have played against Dallas either. Pop would use Oberto on Dirk before Elson.

[furry_spurry]

Rasho, for some unknown reason, would get abused in one-on-one situations by the rim. Players would just go up right through him.

Probably because he spent most of last season covering power forwards- who are quicker and more athletic.

[furry_spurry]

Elson and Eisley to Chicago for JR Smith...KSAT reporting it.
JR Smith for Eisley and two picks.

[timvp]

Probably because he spent most of last season covering power forwards- who are quicker and more athletic.

It could be anyone from point guards to centers. By the end of his time with the Spurs, players would go right thru him and score at the rim. The only shot blocks he was getting were help defense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how can they trade elson to bulls when his already sign an offer sheet with us, unless all parties to the table has agree to rescind the contract

[timvp]

Elson isn't being traded. PDBM was just confused.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

:lol that's a first

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Any updates on the Nuggets matching?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

an insider mentioned that at the moment they aren't likely to match coz they have some big trades on the table and are sure one of them will go down shortly. They cant divulge any more info but thats what we are hearing at the moment.

[ro_50]

I dont see the Nuggets matching for Elson.

[timvp]

I dont see the Nuggets matching for Elson.

I don't think any team in the league would match for half of that.

:pctoss

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

its funny seeing you guys get so upset :lol coz i like Frankie and am so happy that he is getting paid :smokin

Id be happy if the Nuggets match. Even as a Spur id be happy for him

[Jekka]

Because the Nuggets did not break the bank for a shooting guard, they might keep Elson. Nuggets director of player personnel Mark Warkentien wouldn't comment on Smith and how the trade might affect Elson, while Elson's agent, Calvin Andrews, said he had no update.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_4851972,00.html