Ludden: Spurs offer deals to two centers

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs offer deals to two centers

Web Posted: 07/13/2006 12:00 AM CDT



Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer Allowed, finally, to put pen to paper, the Spurs signed 6-foot-1 veteran Jacque Vaughn on Wednesday, presumably to play point guard, not center, though the latter shouldn't be discounted for another week, at least.

With the NBA ending its free-agent moratorium, the Spurs also tried to address their biggest priority by extending offer sheets to two centers: Denver's Francisco Elson and New York's Jackie Butler. Because Elson and Butler are restricted free agents, their respective teams can keep them by matching the offers within seven days.

The Spurs divided their $5.2 million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6 million.

Knicks officials have intimated to some they intend to match the Spurs' offer. Publicly, they said they haven't decided.

New York has 14 players under contract — one below the league maximum — including centers Eddy Curry, Jerome James and Channing Frye. Curry has five years and $48.6million left on his contract, while James is owed $24 million over the next four seasons. Because the Knicks' payroll exceeds the league's luxury tax, Butler's $7million contract could cost them twice as much.

Butler's agent, Keith Glass, is the son of Joe Glass, the agent for former Knicks coach Larry Brown, who is involved in a dispute with the franchise over the $40 million left on his contract.

Speaking to reporters in Denver on Wednesday, Nuggets coach George Karl said it would "probably be a danger for us to match" the offer for Elson.

"He hated to be called an insurance policy," Karl said, "but he was."

Elson, whose nickname among the Nuggets was "Geico," said he doesn't know whether the Nuggets will keep him.

"My concern right now is that hopefully it's with the Spurs," Elson said. "They're a great organization and championship-caliber type team. Shoot, anyone would like to play for the Spurs."

Not everyone. Joel Przybilla and Nazr Mohammed decided to sign with Portland and Detroit, respectively, because the Spurs offered less money. Miami's Alonzo Mourning also turned down an offer from the Spurs.

Signing Butler and Elson to offer sheets could come at the expense of Robertas Javtokas, the Spurs' 2001 second-round draft pick. The Spurs had projected the 6-11 Javtokas to be their backup center before negotiations broke down this week.

Javtokas signed with Greek powerhouse Panathinaikos, said Herb Rudoy, Javtokas' agent.

"Robertas was very disappointed," Rudoy said. "He expected to have serious negotiations, and they didn't want to make him a serious offer.

"It's a shame because we thought this was the summer (for him to come to the NBA)."

Spurs officials declined comment except to say they haven't given up hope of restarting negotiations with Javtokas if they don't get either Butler or Elson. Rudoy, however, said Panathinaikos has given Javtokas a Friday deadline to sign with the Spurs, after which he would have to wait until next summer.

As evidenced by their negotiations with Argentine forward Luis Scola, the Spurs don't want to spend heavily on an international player until they are sure his skills translate to the NBA. Manu Ginobili signed a two-year, $2.9 million contract when he joined the Spurs four years ago, but his success has prompted the next crop of international players to seek more lucrative deals.

Indiana's Sarunas Jasikevicius, the Spurs' Fabricio Oberto and New Orleans' Arvydas Macijauskas all contributed only modestly to their teams after signing last summer.

If Elson and Butler are retained by their respective teams and Javtokas heads to Greece, the Spurs could be left with their pens in their hands. Utah's Jarron Collins and Memphis' Lorenzen Wright are the top unrestricted free-agent centers, but there's no guarantee they would be on the market by the end of the week.

The Spurs are willing to gamble because they don't consider any of the free-agent big men as definite impact players, and that includes Elson and Butler.

Butler, 21, went undrafted after high school. He signed with New York after Dell Demps, the Spurs' director of pro player personnel then working for the Knicks, saw him in the CBA. He averaged 5.3 points and 3.3 rebounds in 13.5 minutes during 55 games last season.

Butler, 6-10, isn't much of a defender but can be an effective low-post scorer. Elson stands 7feet, runs the floor well and is a capable shot blocker. He doesn't have good hands and can be slow to react, also problems with Mohammed.

"I've got great speed, and that is something they seem to need," Elson said. "They have fast guards and need some bigs to run up and down the court with them."

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

In the meantime, the Spurs filled another need by signing Vaughn, a nine-year veteran who averaged 3.4 points and 1.5 assists in 80 games with New Jersey last season. He gives the Spurs a point guard to help back up Tony Parker if Beno Udrih isn't up to the task.

Provided, of course, none of them must jump center.

[violentkitten]

game over.

[MannyIsGod]

That article makes me want to puke. The fucking Spurs ARE being cheap.

[Buddy Holly]

Spurs officials declined comment except to say they haven't given up hope of restarting negotiations with Javtokas if they don't get either Butler or Elson. Rudoy, however, said Panathinaikos has given Javtokas a Friday deadline to sign with the Spurs, after which he would have to wait until next summer.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, that makes me all warm inside Buddy. Whatever.

[violentkitten]

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

why stop at half?

:drunk

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Rudoy, however, said Panathinaikos has given Javtokas a Friday deadline to sign with the Spurs
Does that mean he is still an option?

[Buddy Holly]

Elson is RASHO except stronger and more badass.

What the fuck is everyone slitting their wrists about?

[Buddy Holly]

Yeah, that makes me all warm inside Buddy. Whatever.

I didn't intend for it to nor do I give a fuck if it does.

It just means Jav is still an option.

[ducks]

"Robertas was very disappointed," Rudoy said. "He expected to have serious negotiations, and they didn't want to make him a serious offer.

"It's a shame because we thought this was the summer (for him to come to the NBA)."

Spurs officials declined comment except to say they haven't given up hope of restarting negotiations with Javtokas if they don't get either Butler or Elson. Rudoy, however, said Panathinaikos has given Javtokas a Friday deadline to sign with the Spurs, after which he would have to wait until next summer.

[violentkitten]

Elson is RASHO except stronger and more badass.

What the fuck is everyone slitting their wrists about?

elson makes the radoslav trade look horrible

[whottt]

What's driving me insane is that the Spurs still haven't fixed the SF issues...the biggest problem....and they're blowing over half the fucking MLE on Francisco Elson...shit, I rather Sean Marks.

This is all just spinning wheels...in reverse. We're just trading out scrubs for scrubs, but the new scrubs aren't as good as the old scrubs...only cheaper...which does exactly squat as far as increasing our chances to win.


I wonder if Pop or RC are trying to get fired or something...or trying to make a point...because this is really a shit offseason.

[violentkitten]

the spurs think so highly of javtokas that they took a flier on butler. it must be the lle they have offered him for 2 years.

[ducks]

The Spurs divided their $5.2 million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6 million.
elson did not get 3 years!

[violentkitten]

What's driving me insane is that the Spurs still haven't fixed the SF issues...the biggest problem.

This is all just spinning wheels...in reverse. We're just trading out scrubs for scrubs, but the new scrubs aren't as good as the old scrubs...only cheaper...which does exactly squat as far as increasing out chances to win.


right but payroll is down man. and they gave up picks. and they've let guys walk.




I wonder if Pop or RC are trying to get fired or something...or trying to make a point...because this is really a shit offseason.

ultimately they are doing what ownership wants.

[Spurs9]

God damn why don't they just sign Javtokas.

[Buddy Holly]

elson makes the radoslav trade look horrible

How so?

Rasho: 4.5 points, 3.9 rebounds in 19 minutes.

Elson: 4 points, 4.7 rebounds in 22 minutes.

Hell, Elson has a better shooting percentage than Rasho even at the line.

Now let him play along side Tim and lets see what he can do.

[violentkitten]

The Spurs divided their $5.2 million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6 million.
elson did not get 3 years!

it's probably a team option for the 3rd year. if, by some chance, he turns out to be worthwhile you want that 3rd year on the cheap plus his bird rights.

[MannyIsGod]

Elson is NOT a better option than Rasho and the Spurs fucking admit it in the article but they don't give a shit because he costs less. Fuck that.

[MannyIsGod]

Read motherfucker,



Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

Marcus, bust open the hard stuff, I'm drinking with you tonight.

[violentkitten]

Elson is NOT a better option than Rasho and the Spurs fucking admit it in the article but they don't give a shit because he costs less. Fuck that.

whatever the spurs do is right. IMO. :hat

[Buddy Holly]

Elson is NOT a better option than Rasho and the Spurs fucking admit it in the article but they don't give a shit because he costs less. Fuck that.

So you like to be selective with what you choice to believe or not believe hwne it comes to the Spurs.

It's CIA one moment or just them lying like always or them being 100% truthful.

You guys need to make up your mind.

[violentkitten]

i think i have some captain morgan's in the cabinet.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Not a big fan of Butler. I would not mind im not coming.

I would mind though, if him not coming here and us signing him to a sheet had anything to do with Javtokas not coming.

[Buddy Holly]

Read motherfucker,

And they fucking think Booner is a good player (so much so they introduced him to the media). Do you believe that too?

Why don't you let one or both of these guy produce before you slice your wrists.

[MannyIsGod]

So you like to be selective with what you choice to believe or not believe hwne it comes to the Spurs.

It's CIA one moment or just them lying like always or them being 100% truthful.

You guys need to make up your mind.READ DIPSHIT.

[whottt]

And when the Spurs finally make a play for a freaking RFA they do it for a RFA of the NYKnicks...that's fucking stupid. We might still luck into it but the Knicks will not sweat that salary....that's the last team to tempt into a bid. I mean WTF, have the Knicks ever shown themselves to be skittish about $$$$$?

I like that they gambled with a RFA this offseason when we essentially aren't going to sign shit...I just don't like it that they are calling the Knicks bluff...there's a clear history there PLAIN AS DAY.

[MannyIsGod]

And they fucking think Booner is a great pick (so much so they introduced him to the media). Do you believe that too?Whatever dude. Bonner has nothing to do with being stupid and giving Elson more money but not caring that he sucks because he's cheaper than Rasho. It is right there written for you I don't know what else it will take to get it through your dumbass skull.

[Buddy Holly]

READ DIPSHIT.

Take the same advise and compare their fucking "in game" stats.

They're identical.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this signing. You and Macrus might, but I won't.

[SequNets]

Looks like old ass Horry is going to be starting at center.

[furry_spurry]

It just means Jav is still an option.
No he's not. Listen to his agent and not the Spurs' spin.

"Robertas was very disappointed," Rudoy said. "He expected to have serious negotiations, and they didn't want to make him a serious offer.

"It's a shame because we thought this was the summer (for him to come to the NBA)."

Spurs never even made a serious attempt to bring him here. The past month of stories about how he was surely coming were pure BS.

[whottt]

I am going to go beat my dog.

[Buddy Holly]

Whatever dude. Bonner has nothing to do with being stupid and giving Elson more money but not caring that he sucks because he's cheaper than Rasho. It is right there written for you I don't know what else it will take to get it through your dumbass skull.

More money and less years.

It's Rasho talent for a lot less than Rasho price. That's good fucking business.

[Buddy Holly]

Spurs never even made a serious attempt to bring him here. The past month of stories about how he was surely coming were pure BS.

Believe the agent? :lol :lol

Hell, I kinds don't believe the Spurs but if he had til Friday, that still makes him an option.

Who to say the Knicks match tomorrow and the Spurs through Jav the same deal.

Guess what, all the "sadness" disappears and bam, he signs on the magic line.

[picnroll]

I am going to go beat my dog.
Does this mean you endorse the Woods signing?

[infinite styles]

No he's not. Listen to his agent and not the Spurs' spin.

"Robertas was very disappointed," Rudoy said. "He expected to have serious negotiations, and they didn't want to make him a serious offer.

"It's a shame because we thought this was the summer (for him to come to the NBA)."

Spurs never even made a serious attempt to bring him here. The past month of stories about how he was surely coming were pure BS.

One thing you should never take seriously is what a players agent says.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

I am going to go beat my dog.

:lol

[whottt]

Take that back...I'm going to go beat Holt's dog. And no.

[infinite styles]

Believe the agent? :lol :lol

beat me to it. :lol

[violentkitten]

No he's not. Listen to his agent and not the Spurs' spin.

"Robertas was very disappointed," Rudoy said. "He expected to have serious negotiations, and they didn't want to make him a serious offer.

"It's a shame because we thought this was the summer (for him to come to the NBA)."

Spurs never even made a serious attempt to bring him here. The past month of stories about how he was surely coming were pure BS.

it's clear what happened. rudoy saw nesterovic moved in a trade, spurs strike out on pryzbilla, and mohammed walk and did what any decent agent would do and asked for a big chunk of the mle, seeing as how the spurs were in dire need of a center.

suddenly the sure thing javtokas turns into a greedy bastard. lol.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

More money and less years.

It's Rasho talent for a lot less than Rasho price. That's good fucking business.

Exactly.

I don't see why people refuse to get that.

[MannyIsGod]

BUT ITS NOT RASHO TALENT.

Holy shit, its like I'm talking to a damn retard!

Yes, if Elson were Rasho for this price he'd be great. But he's not, he's worse. So thats why this sucks.

Man, I don't know what more to do to explain it to you.

[MannyIsGod]

Exactly.

I don't see why people refuse to get that.

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

How is Elson significantly less than Rasho?

He's a lot more physical. He goes after rebounds harder. He dunks what Rasho used to lay up try that little floater shit with. Exactly what makes Rasho so much better than Elson?

[Solid D]

For years we have been following the recovery and playing career of Robertas...including searching the net with a fine-toothed comb and trying to figure out Lithuanian language reports. He is a personal interest story. I'm most definitely disappointed.

[Buddy Holly]

BUT ITS NOT RASHO TALENT.

So their stats are identical for no fucking reason?


Holy shit, its like I'm talking to a damn retard!

Yes, if Elson were Rasho for this price he'd be great. But he's not, he's worse. So thats why this sucks.

Man, I don't know what more to do to explain it to you.

What's to explain, you wouldn't be complaing if the Spurs overpaid for the same talent they just had?

Fuck. That's like buying a shirt from Saks returning it and going to Buckle and buying the same shirt for a much lower price.

YUou're just pissed you can't go around saying you spent X amount of dollars on the shirt.

[furry_spurry]

The most honest thing I have read in a long time.

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

Along with this...

The Spurs are willing to gamble because they don't consider any of the free-agent big men as definite impact players, and that includes Elson and Butler.

[Buddy Holly]

might not


Reading is fund...

Oh you get it Manny.

[MannyIsGod]

Arguing with Buddy Holly is like arguing with a brick wall.

[Buddy Holly]

Arguing with Buddy Holly is like arguing with a brick wall.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a girl who has extremely large ears and an inflated self ego?

[violentkitten]

The most honest thing I have read in a long time.


Along with this...


absolutely. the sad thing is that spurs fans will read that and still not grasp what it means.

[koopa]

BUT ITS NOT RASHO TALENT.

Holy shit, its like I'm talking to a damn retard!

Yes, if Elson were Rasho for this price he'd be great. But he's not, he's worse. So thats why this sucks.

Man, I don't know what more to do to explain it to you.


damn, i didn't know it was possible to get worse then rasho

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.


I don't think he is less, but since you insist...let's assume he is.

If he doesn't produce quite as much, but does so at a fraction of the cost...what is wrong with that? That's just good business.

[MannyIsGod]

Reading is fund...

Oh you get it Manny.Theres a reason you're always at odds with a good deal of the posters on this board and it probably has to do with you being a complete idiot.

The Elson signing sucks ass any way you slice it. You and PDBM seem to be the onlys who don't think so.

[furry_spurry]

Who to say the Knicks match tomorrow and the Spurs through Jav the same deal.

Teams always take the whole 7 days to match because they have no idea what could come up. And it is apparent that Javtokas is not going to come even if that happened.

[Buddy Holly]

absolutely. the sad thing is that spurs fans will read that and still not grasp what it means.

It means they get Rasho talent and skill level for a great price.

You'll see it as the Spurs not being the Knicks and offering 12 million for 11 years,

[SequNets]

Retard smack is just funny sometimes.. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think he is less, but since you insist...let's assume he is.

If he doesn't produce quite as much, but does so at a fraction of the cost...what is wrong with that? That's just good business.I agree its good business. But its not whats best for the team basketball wise.

[furry_spurry]

If he doesn't produce quite as much, but does so at a fraction of the cost...what is wrong with that? That's just good business.
But bad basketball.

[violentkitten]

I don't think he is less, but since you insist...let's assume he is.

If he doesn't produce quite as much, but does so at a fraction of the cost...what is wrong with that? That's just good business.

yeah, spend less & get less on the court. good bidness indeed.

[Buddy Holly]

Theres a reason you're always at odds with a good deal of the posters on this board and it probably has to do with you being a complete idiot.

Not really seeing as how an opinion which both of us are expressing is neither wrong nor right.

It has more to do with the bias hatred you dipshits have for me since the civil war.


The Elson signing sucks ass any way you slice it. You and PDBM seem to be the onlys who don't think so.

So let us think that signing someone that produced the same as Rasho last year and the year before is a much better signing at 2 million dollars than Rasho at 7 million.

[Buddy Holly]

But its not whats best for the team basketball wise.

Yeah, signing Rasho or Malik for 6-7 million is.

[MannyIsGod]

Because stats tell the entire story.

[SequNets]

Clearly the Spurs need some type of production at the Center spot. I mean come on, that was their major weakness in the playoffs besides Ginobili's brain.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

But bad basketball.

Not necessarily.

The things Nazr/Rasho brought to the table weren't necessarily bad. The problem was we were overpaying for them. Now we're getting comparable talent (better, if you ask me) for about half the cost. That is good basketball.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, signing Rasho or Malik for 6-7 million is.Talk about a total non sequitor

[violentkitten]

yeah, as is giving up two 1st round picks and letting mohammed walk because you are afraid to have to pay for a starting center.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

But bad basketball.
I agree, there's a fine line when it comes to the business of basketball and basketball business.

[Buddy Holly]

Because stats tell the entire story.

They tell a good deal of it.

[MannyIsGod]

Clearly the Spurs need some type of production at the Center spot. I mean come on, that was their major weakness in the playoffs besides Ginobili's brain.Well unless Pop wasn't playing Rasho because he was overpaid, I don't think thats going to change with someone who might not even be as good.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Because stats tell the entire story.

Ya, I hate when people jump at stats to prove a point.

But the thing is, Elson is the big physical guy we needed at an unbelievably cheap price. He'll bring everything to the table Rasho brought and more. He'll dunk around the rim. He'll get physical with bigs, no matter if they're superstars or stiffs.


I really like the guy...I don't see why people insist on overpaying for some big name guy who might give you more, but at 2-3 times the cost.

[violentkitten]

Not necessarily.

The things Nazr/Rasho brought to the table weren't necessarily bad. The problem was we were overpaying for them. Now we're getting comparable talent (better, if you ask me) for about half the cost. That is good basketball.

wow, the spurs are going to get francisco elson to replace mohammed and nesterovic. good basketball indeed. lol.

[Buddy Holly]

Talk about a total non sequitor

Is the fact that we got Booner and Williams for Rasho?

That just speaks of his value.

The same value you now wish we still had.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Well unless Pop wasn't playing Rasho because he was overpaid, I don't think thats going to change with someone who might not even be as good.

Mistake he hopefully learned from. Fuck small ball.

[MannyIsGod]

They tell a good deal of it.No, not really.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

wow, the spurs are going to get francisco elson to replace mohammed and nesterovic. good basketball indeed. lol.

Actually, it is.

[Buddy Holly]

Elson and or Butler are tough big centers who will defend the paint. That's all we need. We don't need Shaq or Ben Wallace as center.

Fuck.

[violentkitten]

Is the fact that we got Booner and Williams for Rasho?

That just speaks of his value.

The same value you now wish we still had.


if elson has such great value surely the nuggets will match

[MannyIsGod]

It would be one thing if the Spurs were high on Elson, but it doesn't seem as though they are. They don't expect a damn thing from him, but they don't seem to care because they got him cheap.

[Buddy Holly]

No, not really.

Yeah, you're right. What the hell do we even have them for??

[violentkitten]

Elson and or Butler are tough big centers who will defend the paint. That's all we need. We don't need Shaq or Ben Wallace as center.

Fuck.

lmfao. neither of you two clowns has even seen elson or butler play.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

yeah, as is giving up two 1st round picks and letting mohammed walk because you are afraid to have to pay for a starting center.

Wasn't that deal more-so to relieve us of Malik's contract rather than getting Nazr?

I don't think our intention was to get the center for the future with Nazr.

[violentkitten]

Actually, it is.

not really. it's cutting corners and putting a product on the floor that overall is good enough to fool spurs fans into thinking the team is a serious contender.

elson is crap.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

It would be one thing if the Spurs were high on Elson, but it doesn't seem as though they are. They don't expect a damn thing from him, but they don't seem to care because they got him cheap.

He's not the second coming of Robert Parish.

He's just a banger who can hit an open jumper. Getting that in this day and age for 3 mill a year isn't too bad. He is nazr with better hands and less head fakes...and cheaper.

[Buddy Holly]

It would be one thing if the Spurs were high on Elson, but it doesn't seem as though they are. They don't expect a damn thing from him, but they don't seem to care because they got him cheap.

And that's what's got your panties in a bunch.

Hell, the Spurs are never high on anybody.

They ddn't expect too much from Manu or Tony, etc.

[violentkitten]

Wasn't that deal more-so to relieve us of Malik's contract rather than getting Nazr?

I don't think our intention was to get the center for the future with Nazr.

right, the deal was to relieve the spurs of malik's contract to go out and do such wonderful things like sign jacque vaughn and francisco fucking elson. lol.

[Buddy Holly]

lmfao. neither of you two clowns has even seen elson or butler play.

But you have everyone of their pro games on tape in your library, right?

Well the Nuggets fans have probably seen a whole lot of him and that's the reprot they give.

Big, tough center.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

not really. it's cutting corners and putting a product on the floor that overall is good enough to fool spurs fans into thinking the team is a serious contender.

elson is crap.

Tim Duncan. Manu Ginobilli. Tony Parker.

We don't need any other studs in that lineup. We need utility guys. The Bowens of the league. The Elsons of the league. Guys that do certain things, and don't cost too much.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

right, the deal was to relieve the spurs of malik's contract to go out and do such wonderful things like sign jacque vaughn and francisco fucking elson. lol.

...oh, and Michael Finley.

[violentkitten]

But you have everyone of their pro games on tape in your library, right?

Well the Nuggets fans have probably seen a whole lot of him and that's the reprot they give.

Big, tough center.


lmfao. you are relying on 'nuggets fans'? are they also nsync fans?

[violentkitten]

...oh, and Michael Finley.

unrelated.

[Buddy Holly]

lmfao. you are relying on 'nuggets fans'? are they also nsync fans?

You're right, you and your cat Stephen are a much more reliable median of information concerning the two.

Right doorknob?

[violentkitten]

dude you can't even be funny if you tried.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

So, whose alias is violent kitten...

I got 5 bucks on T Park.

[wolf754life]

preach kitten, preach!

[Buddy Holly]

dude you can't even be funny if you tried.

I wasn't.

But many if I started off with lmfao in everyone of my posts it would add to my attempt at "humor."

[violentkitten]

Tim Duncan. Manu Ginobilli. Tony Parker.

We don't need any other studs in that lineup. We need utility guys. The Bowens of the league. The Elsons of the league. Guys that do certain things, and don't cost too much.

:lol

the hyping of elson begins. by early december you will be ripping him.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

unrelated.

Right.

[Buddy Holly]

So, whose alias is violent kitten...

I got 5 bucks on T Park.

Marcus Bryant.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

:lol

the hyping of elson begins. by early december you will be ripping him.

Like Nuggets fans are ripping him now?

[furry_spurry]

People just don't want to grasp this:

The Spurs traded Rasho- knew Nazr was not coming back- knew they were not bringing in Scola- knew they would not make a hard play for Przybilla- knew they would not make a substantial offer to Javtokas- all with the clear knowledge that what they could get on the free agent market was a definite downgrade from what they had but was being chosen for strictly finanical reasons.

[Buddy Holly]

Like Nuggets fans are ripping him now?

Don't you know, Nugget frans know dick about their own players.

They can't compare to MB and his cat.

[violentkitten]

oh no, "nuggets fans" on hoopsworld.com or whatever.

[SA210]

Spurs FO = stupid


:pctoss

[Buddy Holly]

oh no, "nuggets fans" on hoopsworld.com or whatever.

As opposed to nerdy Spurs fans and their asexual cats on Spurstalk.com

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Don't you know, Nugget frans know dick about their own players.

They can't compare to MB and his cat.

:D



On another note, I thought Marcus Bryant was a cool cat (no pun intended). Looks like he has a little prick in him though. Eh, oh well.

[violentkitten]

People just don't want to grasp this:

The Spurs traded Rasho- knew Nazr was not coming back- knew they were not bringing in Scola- knew they would not make a hard play for Przybilla- knew they would not make a substantial offer to Javtokas- all with the clear knowledge that what they could get on the free agent market was a definite downgrade from what they had but was being chosen for strictly finanical reasons.

exactly. the worst thing of all...they have maybe 5 more years in duncan's career. they are setting themselves up to have a weaker supporting cast in the next 2.

[furry_spurry]

Tim Duncan. Manu Ginobilli. Tony Parker.

We don't need any other studs in that lineup. We need utility guys. The Bowens of the league. The Elsons of the league. Guys that do certain things, and don't cost too much.
Please tell me that you did not just write that. You actually compared Fransisco Elson to a five-time all defensive first or second team player??

[violentkitten]

As opposed to nerdy Spurs fans and their asexual cats on Spurstalk.com

funny shit considering you have population stats in your sig.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

exactly. the worst thing of all...they have maybe 5 more years in duncan's career. they are setting themselves up to have a weaker supporting cast in the next 2.

If we over pay now, what happens when Duncan retires?

We're stuck with the supporting cast we made for him, who now can't support themselves. A squad full of players you overpaid for, that will win you 40 games a year because you don't have shit under the salary to spend on new players to bring in to put around Tony Parker.

[Buddy Holly]

funny shit considering you have population stats in your sig.

Yeah, and you have a cat.

What's gayier.

This is one time I am unopposed with saying... you win.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Please tell me that you did not just write that. You actually compared Fransisco Elson to a five-time all defensive first or second team player??

How many all-defensive first teams did he win in Miami?

[violentkitten]

If we over pay now, what happens when Duncan retires?

We're stuck with the supporting cast we made for him, who now can't support themselves. A squad full of players you overpaid for, that will win you 40 games a year because you don't have shit under the salary to spend on new players to bring in to put around Tony Parker.


when duncan retires the team is going to suck. so you get better draft picks and build that way. as we've seen you are not going to get star level talent to come to sa via free agency.

[furry_spurry]

It would be one thing if the Spurs were high on Elson, but it doesn't seem as though they are. They don't expect a damn thing from him, but they don't seem to care because they got him cheap.
How would you like that ringing endorsement- we know you're not as good as what we had, but you're cheaper!

[Buddy Holly]

when duncan retires the team is going to suck. so you get better draft picks and build that way. as we've seen you are not going to get star level talent to come to sa via free agency.

Most (an overwhelming majority) "star level talent" stay with their teams because they get paid more.

You can really only really ever aquire them via trades.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

when duncan retires the team is going to suck. so you get better draft picks and build that way. as we've seen you are not going to get star level talent to come to sa via free agency.

Wow.

You want us to suck, so we can get better. :elephant

[violentkitten]

Yeah, and you have a cat.

What's gayier.

This is one time I am unopposed with saying... you win.


oh no. now it's "gayier" instead of "nerd". if i was 15 years old like chamber of commerce i might be offended. now i just laugh at the poor kid.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

How would you like that ringing endorsement- we know you're not as good as what we had, but you're cheaper!

What does he care.

He's getting paid 5 times as much. He'll be getting much more minutes.

[SA210]

no Javtokas = stupid Spurs FO

[violentkitten]

Most (an overwhelming majority) "star level talent" stay with their teams because they get paid more.

You can really only really ever aquire them via trades.

sincerely,
steve nash

[Buddy Holly]

oh no. now it's "gayier" instead of "nerd". if i was 15 years old like chamber of commerce i might be offended. now i just laugh at the poor kid.

I'm the poor kid?

I've seen your picture.

You're the poor soul.

I can't imagine how many school time ass kickings you endured.

My hobby can change, your face and past can't.

[furry_spurry]

He's getting paid 5 times as much. He'll be getting much more minutes.
How-- he played 22 minutes per game in Denver with all their injuries. No way he plays that many minutes in SA.

[violentkitten]

Wow.

You want us to suck, so we can get better. :elephant

eh? when duncan retires the team is going to suck. not exactly a statement of preference.

[Buddy Holly]

sincerely,
steve nash

You're right.

It wasn't the "bird rights" team that paid him more.

It was the other.

Again, players go where the money is.

Usually its the team they're on.

Nash was the exception in only that he got the most money from another team.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

eh? when duncan retires the team is going to suck. not exactly a statement of preference.

Well, it might not suck.

If you have money to spend on players to put around Tony Parker. But if you're mentality going is "build for 5 years while we have timmy, and spend big" then when time comes around for him to retire and you to build around Tony...you're fucked.



Then you have to suck, and get high draft picks...and hope to god they pan out. Maybe that's appealing to you, I'd rather not.

[violentkitten]

I'm the poor kid?

I've seen your picture.

You're the poor soul.

I can't imagine how many school time ass kickings you endured.

My hobby can change, your face and past can't.


:lol at the poor kid trying to act hard.

your life must suck.

[violentkitten]

Well, it might not suck.

If you have money to spend on players to put around Tony Parker. But if you're mentality going is "build for 5 years while we have timmy, and spend big" then when time comes around for him to retire and you to build around Tony...you're fucked.



Then you have to suck, and get high draft picks...and hope to god they pan out. Maybe that's appealing to you, I'd rather not.

so fuck the remainder of tim duncan's career let's worry about 2011.

[Buddy Holly]

How-- he played 22 minutes per game in Denver with all their injuries. No way he plays that many minutes in SA.


Might wanna check out what he did when he started.

One game:

21 points, 11 rebounds in 32 minutes.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

How-- he played 22 minutes per game in Denver with all their injuries. No way he plays that many minutes in SA.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

But those 22 minutes came due to injuries. Here he will be "the guy" from the start. Also, if he's the only center other than Jackie Butler...I wouldn't be surprised to see him log 30 minutes a night.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

so fuck the remainder of tim duncan's career let's worry about 2011.

No.

We can afford to sign the Elson's of the league right now and stil compete. Like we did with Rasho and Kevin Willis and Nazr and Massenburg. But put those players on a team without DUncan and just TOny Parker (5 years from now) and we're a .500 team.




I feel like I'm repeating myself.

[Buddy Holly]

:lol at the poor kid trying to act hard.

your life must suck.

I'm trying to act hard on an internet message board?

Ouch.

I think I'd kick my own ass if I ever tired that. :lol

Geeze, you are one paranoid bastard.

[violentkitten]

No.

We can afford to sign the Elson's of the league right now and stil compete. Like we did with Rasho and Kevin Willis and Nazr and Massenburg. But put those players on a team without DUncan and just TOny Parker (5 years from now) and we're a .500 team.




I feel like I'm repeating myself.

yeah, the spurs can still "compete" as long as they have duncan, manu, and parker. how about doing the best to win now? in 5 years it's not only duncan you are losing, you are losing manu as well. those two coming off the cap will more than give you the cap flexibility you need to rebuild post-duncan.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Let's see what Marcus Bryant looks like, Buddy. :D

[SA210]

:sigh:

[violentkitten]

I'm trying to act hard on an internet message board?

Ouch.

I think I'd kick my own ass if I ever tired that. :lol

Geeze, you are one paranoid bastard.


nah, i'm one laughing bastard right now.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

yeah, the spurs can still "compete" as long as they have duncan, manu, and parker. how about doing the best to win now? in 5 years it's not only duncan you are losing, you are losing manu as well. those two coming off the cap will more than give you the cap flexibility you need to rebuild post-duncan.

More flexibility...but you're stuck with the guys you gave long term deals while you still had Duncan.

There is a method to the Spurs madness. They don't want guys on the books long term...for good reason.

[Buddy Holly]

nah, i'm one laughing bastard right now.

Good to know.

Laughing so hard you were able to analyze one of my posts and come back with "trying to act hard."

Seriously, what grade was I in the last time I heard someone say that? 7th? Maybe the 8th but I can't be too sure.

[violentkitten]

More flexibility...but you're stuck with the guys you gave long term deals while you still had Duncan.

There is a method to the Spurs madness. They don't want guys on the books long term...for good reason.

in 5 years? how many guys given long term deals today would still be on those deals then?

fuck man who cares about 5 years from now?

[Buddy Holly]

Let's see what Marcus Bryant looks like, Buddy. :D

I dare not even try to picture it. Every time I do I begin to seizure.

I'll just say pretend the Toxic Avenger were a human boy but had a crack problem.

That's MB.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

fuck man who cares about 5 years from now?

Nice.

If I were you I wouldn't advertise that opinion.

[violentkitten]

Good to know.

Laughing so hard you were able to analyze one of my posts and come back with "trying to act hard."

Seriously, what grade was I in the last time I heard someone say that? 7th? Maybe the 8th but I can't be too sure.

whatever, man. go jackoff to census.gov

[violentkitten]

Nice.

If I were you I wouldn't advertise that opinion.


why not?

[Buddy Holly]

whatever, man. go jackoff to census.gov

I would but I just got done jerking off to actinghardontheaninternetmessageboard.net

[violentkitten]

I would but I just got done jerking off to actinghardontheaninternetmessageboard.net

no doubt another boy band fansite

[Buddy Holly]

no doubt another boy band fansite

Probably.

Damn... I need to get the shit under my name changed.

"Actin' Hard 4 Sho" is what it should be.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

What's the beef with Buddy's city fetish?

I read a thread of his on how some side of the city was about to explode with expansion and businessses being built there or something rather...what's wrong with that?

[Mr. Body]

No.

We can afford to sign the Elson's of the league right now and stil compete. Like we did with Rasho and Kevin Willis and Nazr and Massenburg. But put those players on a team without DUncan and just TOny Parker (5 years from now) and we're a .500 team.

I doubt it. Parker is not a leader and cannot win games by himself. Look at how he did with the French NT. Not that great.

[Buddy Holly]

What's the beef with Buddy's city fetish?

He looks in the mirror every day and then has to find a way to vent his fustration at God.

My hobby is his outlet.

It's all good. If it keeps him from killing himself, I guess it's not so bad.

[koopa]

in 5 years? how many guys given long term deals today would still be on those deals then?

fuck man who cares about 5 years from now?


mike jones does, he made a song called 5 years from now

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So is Javtokas still an option for the Spurs because it says in the article that he is giving the Spurs until Friday or he is going to sign with the Euro-team. So can he still be a Spur this season?

[SA210]

whatever, man. go jackoff to census.gov
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[violentkitten]

anyways, 5 years ago the spurs laid the foundation for the 2 championships in '03 and '05 by bringing in drafted talent that turned into star talent. that's the way you build a contender in san antonio. if you have a couple contracts that last past duncan, no big deal. you rebuild the team around parker via the draft.

[Buddy Holly]

mike jones does, he made a song called 5 years from now


In five years MB is going to look the same, talk the same, sound the same, behave the same, and probably be on another message board trying to be the leader of the "cool" group.

[SA210]

He looks in the mirror every day and then has to find a way to vent his fustration at God.

My hobby is his outlet.

It's all good. If it keeps him from killing himself, I guess it's not so bad.
:lol you guys are funny when you get into these all nighters. :lol

[violentkitten]

maybe in 5 years i'll have metro sa's 2011 population estimate in my sig.

[Buddy Holly]

maybe in 5 years i'll have metro sa's 2011 population estimate in my sig.

No, I will.

You'll be the radtag leader of a super cool but sightly cynical group of posters at DontActHard.com/forums or Dontmakefunofmypicture.org/forums

[violentkitten]

So is Javtokas still an option for the Spurs because it says in the article that he is giving the Spurs until Friday or he is going to sign with the Euro-team. So can he still be a Spur this season?

if javtokas will take the lle maybe he'll be a spur next season. of course, you still have the offers outstanding to butler and elson. not sure where the spurs re vis a vis the lux tax threshold but it would seem like they are bumping up on it. and that's a major no no.

[violentkitten]

No, I will.

You'll be the radtag leader of a super cool but sightly cynical group of posters at DontActHard.com/forums or Dontmakefunofmypicture.org/forums


unlikely, but if i ever was, i have no doubt you'd be following me around the forum whining about me being a 'leader' of the 'cool kids' or whatever. yikes, the boy has issues.

[furry_spurry]

Parker is not a leader and cannot win games by himself. Look at how he did with the French NT. Not that great.
Got totally dominated by the Slovenija National Team- and who's their captain- oh, yeah, Rasho. :lol

[ShoogarBear]

If Elson and Butler are retained by their respective teams and Javtokas heads to Greece, the Spurs could be left with their pens in their hands.

I got $100 that says that's not what Ludden originally typed.

[T Park]

Ricardos en manos? :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Si.

[timvp]

The Spurs are making me sick. I can't believe this crap.

They give Francisco Elson, probably the 11th best bigman still on the market, a bloated contract. It's as if they know he sucks but they just want a center. The only thing worse than being cheap is being cheap while you knowingly make the team worse.

This is beyond disgusting at this point. Nazr and Rasho are both worlds better than Elson. Elson would have to improve five fold to even entire their same realm.

Jackie Butler is the player they should have targeted but instead it looks like they are more than happy to just land Elson. Spurs are already pretty much giving up on Butler.

And Javtokas' Friday deadline will come and pass because the Spurs won't know until next Wednesday whether Butler and Elson will be on the Spurs or what.

This will forever go down as The Francisco Elson Offseason. I couldn't imagine this summer panning out much worse.

[violentkitten]

perhaps holt has decided that if pop wont play his centers then he might as well not pay them. still, this is definitely a step back. maybe the spurs can salvage this offseason with some kind of trade. the spurs' tradeable assets are primarily near term ending contracts so their reluctance to take on long-term deals may hamper that.

[polandprzem]

Why all the things fucked up so fast?

[Buddy Holly]

The only thing worse than being cheap is being cheap while you knowingly make the team worse.

So you want them to over pay and get worse?

[TDMVPDPOY]

we did the fuckn knicks a favor by doin their paperwork, or else they wouldve overpaid butler. if they match the offer, they get themselves a bargain.

[timvp]

So you want them to over pay and get worse?

Whatever happened to getting better?

[Buddy Holly]

Whatever happened to getting better?

What center realisitcly that is a free agent out there could come in and make the Spurs better?

Seriously.

[timvp]

What center realisitcly that is a free agent out there could come in and make the Spurs better?

Seriously.

Przybilla, Butler, Evans, Songaila, Ely ... need I go on?

[Buddy Holly]

Przybilla,

He resigned with Portland, nothing we could do about it.


Butler,

Well, if the Knicks don't match, he's ours, but even then seriously, this guy is gonna make us better? Come on.


Evans,

He's a center? So when we go up against Shaq and the Heat, he's the guy you want on Shaq?


Songaila,

Ok, now you're just being bitter.


Ely ... need I go on?

Melvin? Eh.

[T Park]

Przybilla you didnt want.

Ely is restricted and would be matched.

As will Butler.


Darius Songaila? :lol

[Buddy Holly]

Lj, you're fighting about who has the best dumpster and all the best shit within it with those names and the ones we signed.

[timvp]

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think Elson is the answer, just wait until the season and apologize then.

Thanks.

[polandprzem]

If Elson is the answer then we are waiting for a miracle

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.

I hate this paragraph in the article. It basically just says, "Hey they suck, but at least their cheap." I would have rather Ludden/Spurs tried to sell them more.

[Buddy Holly]

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think Elson is the answer, just wait until the season and apologize then.

Thanks.

No, Songaila the answer. :rolleyes

[Buddy Holly]

I hate this paragraph in the article. It basically just says, "Hey they suck, but at least their cheap." I would have rather Ludden/Spurs tried to sell them more.

You're ready way too much into that.

It says they might not give you the same production not that they won't.

That's the way the Spurs tend to be with new players, they have low expectations they don't hype up players.

But whats wrong with saying they signed them for cheap?

They did.

[Kori Ellis]

You're ready way too much into that.

It says they might not give you the same production not that they won't.

But whats wrong with saying they signed them for cheap?

They did.

It basically says the Spurs are okay with them being bad because the players came cheap. I'm not sure that's what fans want to hear. That's all I'm saying.

They could have tried to sell them more and at least try to fool people :lol

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think Elson is the answer, just wait until the season and apologize then.

Thanks.

So let's make a little wager on it.

[timvp]

So let's make a little wager on it.

Alright, name the stats you predict Elson to put up next year. I'll take the under.

$20?

[Mr. Body]

Ludden might have been underwhelmed by Elson as much as we were and simply wasn't hiding it as much.

[violentkitten]

Ludden might have been underwhelmed by Elson as much as we were and simply wasn't hiding it as much.

yeah, the spurs have f'd up this offseason so bad thatve pissed off their media lap dog.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Alright, name the stats you predict Elson to put up next year. I'll take the under.

$20?

8 points 6 boards.

Let's make that $50.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

8 points 6 boards.

Let's make that $50.

:elephant


Yes, no...maybe so?

[timvp]

8 points 6 boards.

Let's make that $50.

Deal. No way in hell Elson averages 8 and 6.

The bet is payable on the last day of the season.

Thanks.


:smokin

[Buddy Holly]

I'll take that action.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

$50...

That's about 30 hot n' spicy's and 10 fries with a few cokes. I'm golden for a few weeks. Thanks LJ!

[timvp]

I'll take that action.

Okay same bet with you.

Thanks.

[jcrod]

Butler, 6-10, isn't much of a defender but can be an effective low-post scorer. Elson stands 7feet, runs the floor well and is a capable shot blocker. He doesn't have good hands and can be slow to react, also problems with Mohammed.

Spurs officials acknowledge Elson and Butler might not provide the same level of production as Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic but are willing to take that risk because they would cost about half as much.





Damn, Everything we complaind about Rasho and Nazr, they have the same problems, but much worse since they're not in the same level.

This is disgusting, period! :depressed

[Buddy Holly]

Okay same bet with you.

Thanks.

No problem.

However, is the best still on if he has some kind of season ending injury?

[timvp]

No problem.

However, is the best still on if he has some kind of season ending injury?

At least 50 games played.

[Mr. Body]

The thing I love about Francisco Elson is his bad hands.

[Tek_XX]

One of the few times when you wonder if the Spurs know what they're doing.

[ShoogarBear]

Shit, LJ's been plucking chickens while the rest of us were sleeping.

[1Parker1]

Damnit LJ just made the quickest $100 bucks on the forum! :pctoss Why didn't I read this thread earlier...

[ShoogarBear]

The thing I love about Francisco Elson is his bad hands.

LOL, there should be a vBookie on when the first "We want Nazr" chant starts.

I'm definitely willing to give him a chance, though. It just doesn't look promising.

[leemajors]

maybe he can switch up his nickname from geico to USAA.

[boutons_]

Elson's 30, been in the NBA 3 years, has been invisible.

Career 2.4 PF per 17 MPG. Seems like a klutzy big man.

Useful as 4th or 5th big if we had decent bigs for big numbers 3,4,5.

It's gonna be embarrassing if he's in the top 8 in Spurs MPG next season.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why are these guys getting any multiyear deals? I thought we were gonna sign one center to go with Javtokas and then next year dump him for Mahinmi. Today is the last day we can sign Javtokas right?

[Mr. Body]

Why are these guys getting any multiyear deals? I thought we were gonna sign one center to go with Javtokas and then next year dump him for Mahinmi.

That was my thinking. RJ had the tools to become a decent starting big man... or so I thought.

You have to give multiyear deals. No one of any talent signs anything else.

We should forget about Mahinmi for the time being. He's nowhere near ready and, when he is, the FO will inexplicably keep him in Europe to sign the next generation of 3rd string center on the Denver Nuggets. (The board will explode with the right-minders despairing over the lack of 'touch' and those thrashing about vainly trying to defend this FO on past glories.)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

tomorrow is, isn't it ?
Either way we can still sign him, so why did we make TWO offers? And they are both MULTI-YEAR DEALS. What ever happened to the sign Mahinmi next year plan?

[Mr. Body]

What ever happened to the sign Mahinmi next year plan?

It was the plan on fan boards, never the front office.

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe he'll start reading this board, and get better ?

After all, it's been working that way for the rest of us . . .

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

That was my thinking. RJ had the tools to become a decent starting big man... or so I thought.

You have to give multiyear deals. No one of any talent signs anything else.

We should forget about Mahinmi for the time being. He's nowhere near ready and, when he is, the FO will inexplicably keep him in Europe to sign the next generation of 3rd string center on the Denver Nuggets. (The board will explode with the right-minders despairing over the lack of 'touch' and those thrashing about vainly trying to defend this FO on past glories.)
So can we still sign Javtokas or not?

[ducks]

ian did only sign a one year contract overseas though

[picnroll]

My prediction, Butler goes to the T Wolves in a S&T doubly screwing the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

So can we still sign Javtokas or not?

It's more than highly unlikely.


ian did only sign a one year contract overseas though

And he'll sign another one next summer... and then another one the summer after, most likely...