Do You Still Want Oberto Out?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I know he's not the best player on the bench or maybe even through the 8-12 spot but now that we are in dire need of a center we can't afford to lose anything, and I think including Oberto. He wasn't the starting center on the championship Argentina squad for nothing. He averaged 1 point and 2 rebounds this past season but he was the 11th or 12th man off the bench. But now that he may get a big role on the team, don't you think those numbers will get an automatic boost? Last year it was 1 ppg and 2 rpg while we didn't really need him, but this year that he gets a big part and maybe even a starting role those numbers have to go up. If he does get the starting center spot he will average at least 7 points and 8 rebounds. I know that that isn't a lot but when it comes from Oberto that's a major upgrade. And with the arrival of one of or maybe both Elson and Butler we might not even have a center problem after this season. Whatever comes from the Spurs FO about a bigger role for Oberto, I am 100% behind them. Call me crazy, but I am serious about my new sig.

[Quadzilla99]

One thing about him at least he plays hard. He definitely hustles and goes after loose balls. He might improve this year but he did gets some offensive rebounds and tap outs when he was in their in limited time.

[strangeweather]

I know he's not the best player on the bench or maybe even through the 8-12 spot but now that we are in dire need of a center we can't afford to lose anything, and I think including Oberto. He averaged 1 point and 2 rebounds this past season but he was the 11th or 12th man off the bench. But now that he may get a big role on the team, don't you think those numbers will get an automatic boost? Last year it was 1 ppg and 2 rpg while we didn't really need him, but this year that he gets a big part and maybe even a starting role those numbers have to go up. If he does get the starting center spot he will average at least 7 points and 8 rebounds. I know that that isn't a lot but when it comes from Oberto that's a major upgrade. And with the arrival of one of or maybe both Elson and Butler we might not even have a center problem after this season. Whatever comes from the Spurs FO about a bigger role for Oberto, I am 100% behind them. Call me crazy, but I am serious about my new sig.
My projection of the big man rotation, if we get Butler and Elson and make no other relevant moves:

Starting:
Duncan
Elson

Backups with regular minutes:
Butler
Bonner

Occasional minutes:
Horry

Inactive List:
Oberto

We aren't going to keep 6 big men active, and unless someone is worse than advertised Oberto is the weakest of the 6.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

C Oberto/Elson
PF Duncan/Horry/Bonner
SF Bowen/Finley
SG Manu/Barry
PG Tony/Beno/Vaughn
IR Sanders
IR2 Melzer
I think Butler will be matched despite the rumors.

[Solid D]

It's difficult to know just how much improvement he will show in his 2nd year in the system and the league. He has a nice feel for the game and he's a team-oriented player. Playing in the WCs this summer with his mates from Argentina might be really good for his confidence.

[jman3000]

He'll give you a lot of hustle rebounds that you might not have got otherwise, but the problem is, can he stay on the floor and out of foul trouble long enough to play a decent amount of minutes?

[Quadzilla99]

I'm still shocked Francisco Elson is the guy we're probably going to end up with. Jesus fucking Christ...

[strangeweather]

I think Butler will be matched despite the rumors.
It's certainly possible, but I think the moves the Spurs have made so far imply that they would go right back out there and look for another guy.

They wanted to keep Javtokas hanging in case he was needed as Plan B. That certainly doesn't sound like a team that is putting a lot of faith in Oberto.

I won't be surprised at all if Oberto is traded -- the only question is whether other teams will have any interest in him as part of a package.

[midgetonadonkey]

Oberto>>>>Elson

[Solid D]

Remember that Pop used Oberto at the 4 most of the time. He got more minutes when Horry went out. The more time Horry got, the less Oberto got.

[MI21]

There certainly room for Oberto as a 3rd string C or PF.

His game @ Miami was good :)

/positivespurspost

[spurster]

Oberto and Elson were similar in efficiency/minute (0.376 vs. 0.389). I think we'll see some improvement in Oberto. Hopefully, he has been working on getting off the ground this summer.

[ro_50]

One thing he does do is hustle and makes the little plays, i.e., setting screens, blocking out a would-be offensive rebounder, tapping the ball out to keep posession. Every team needs a player like that.

I dont mind if he got more playing time (if Spurs dont get Butler or Elson or neither) and play 10-15 mins a game.

[Tobias]

Guys, the Spurs reasoning is ultimately clear now. They were obviously makin room for Oberto the beast. :smokin

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Guys, the Spurs reasoning is ultimately clear now. They were obviously makin room for Oberto the beast. :smokin
Totally.

[Old School Chic]

Oberto>>>>Elson


:nope

[thispego]

Who ever wanted Oberto out? not me, thats for sure
Oberto is a talented player and with sufficient minutes he can shut all the casual spurs fans up who think he's not worth a damn

[spursmode]

I am thoroughly convinced that he can average 10 points and 5 rebounds per game if he stays with us next year.............................................. ......
that is of course as long as each game he plays in goes to triple overtime.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I am thoroughly convinced that he can average 10 points and 5 rebounds per game if he stays with us next year.............................................. ......
that is of course as long as each game he plays in goes to triple overtime.
Weak. And not true.

[Mr. Body]

Whether Oberto does well or not this summer, I see him bundled up with Elson in an 'expiring contracts' gift basket ('May or may not include Brent Barry!'). Elson is a one-year rental and Oberto is not terribly good in this league.

[40 inch vertical]

No, not now ... given that we don't have anything secured yet and that he might be better than what we are getting. Still, I would rather have had Jav (more power, better athleticism, better defensively, younger and bigger upside).

[strangeweather]

I just don't see many reasons for optimism, based on how Oberto performed this season. He had an astonishingly bad 0.250 shooting percentage on jumpers (worst on the team), and he can't dunk, so his points basically came from dump-off passes and offensive rebounds that led to close-in shots.

While his offensive rebounding was effective, his defensive rebounding was roughly on par to Rasho's, and Rasho wasn't exactly known for his work on the boards.

He's not a good blocker. He's undersized for a center, and doesn't move very well for a power forward. The team's net production while he was on the floor was the worst on the team last year, by a significant amount.

I don't have anything against the guy, but I don't see anything there to get excited about.

[Mr. Body]

He's like a less effective Najera hustle player.

[beirmeistr]

It's difficult to know just how much improvement he will show in his 2nd year in the system and the league. He has a nice feel for the game and he's a team-oriented player. Playing in the WCs this summer with his mates from Argentina might be really good for his confidence.
Good point. I think Oberto can be a plus for the Spurs off the bench. I just hope he gets a chance to improve with meaningful minutes and not just "garbage time" minutes.

[bigdog]

there is no way Oberto is better than Elson. i dont get why you guys keep bashing on Elson. I like Elson better then Jackie Butler, even though we havent seen much of Butler. I dont think we really need that many big men on the active list, so if Oberto is gonna stay on the team, i would want himt o be inactive. but I would even rather have Sean Marks instead of Fabricio Oberto.

[Mr. Body]

Oberto would have outperformed Elson playing for Denver last year. Elson's +/- numbers were negative.

[Bruno]

Oberto is a gonner to me, i don't see what use Spurs can do of him if they get Elson or/and Butler.

[dbestpro]

Don't be suprised if Oberto starts. Pop has a way of bringing players along. The true odd man out of the rotation acutally maybe Horry in a trade as his skills set matches Bonner. A trade at sometime in the future will occur with guys like Barry, Williams and Horry going for a swing PF-SF.

[bigdog]

I doubt the Spurs would trade Horry. he said that he is going to play at least one more year, and that he wants to retire as a Spur. and Oberto will NOT be a starter. if we get Elson and Butler, I'm sure Elson would be the starter. no offense to oberto, im sure hes a good player, but not on this team, or maybe even in this league.

[Mr. Body]

If Horry retires after this summer, that leaves one more year on his contract.

That means:

Horry ($3.6)
Oberto ($2.5)
Barry ($5.5)

... all have one more year contracts to shop. Unfortunately, it seems no one trades for expiring contracts alone, but it allows some flexibility.

[SAGambler]

I do admire Obertos hustle. And even though several times he may not have come up with a rebound, but he tapped it out to a teammate that did. I even wondered at times if maybe we would have been better off with him in there than Nazr. I would like to see the guy given the chance to play some minutes and see how he works out. He might surprise all of us.

[dbestpro]

At the beginning of last year Oberto was tagged with phantom foul calls every time he hit the floor. The refs for what ever reason would not let him play. As it neared playoff time he got a few more minutes and the refs again for what ever reason seemed to lighten up on him. During those minutes the Spurs usually surged as a team. He did this often with the reserve unit. With Oberto it is not the stats it is the general team play that makes the difference.

[strangeweather]

Oberto would have outperformed Elson playing for Denver last year. Elson's +/- numbers were negative.
According to 82games.com, Elson's net production was -4.0. Oberto's was a staggering -11.3.

Numbers like this aren't very transferrable, but I don't see how you can support that claim.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

there is no way Oberto is better than Elson. i dont get why you guys keep bashing on Elson. I like Elson better then Jackie Butler, even though we havent seen much of Butler. I dont think we really need that many big men on the active list, so if Oberto is gonna stay on the team, i would want himt o be inactive. but I would even rather have Sean Marks instead of Fabricio Oberto.

Oberto would be better than both of those guys if he got the same amount of minutes.

That's like saying you would rather have Redick than Morrison.

[ChumpDumper]

Marks gets injured rolling out of bed.

[dbestpro]

Oberto 8.3 mpg 1.7 ppg 2.1 rpg
Elson 21.9 mpg 4.9 ppg 4.7 rpg

Given Oberto the same amount of minutes translates to 4.5 ppg 5.5 rpg
All things considered they are pretty equal with Oberto being a slightly better rebounder for the minutes played.

[strangeweather]

All things considered they are pretty equal with Oberto being a slightly better rebounder for the minutes played.
But really only on the offensive boards, which is most of Oberto's offensive game at this point. They're pretty equal on the defensive boards -- Elson even has a slight edge.

And Elson's jumper is more useful to us than Oberto's garbage collection, because it opens up the paint a little more.

[dbestpro]

I think an open paint is why got out rebounded by the guards from Dallas. Shooting jump shots will limit offensive rebound production.

[timvp]

My hope for Oberto is that he'll take the same course as Ginobili and Nocioni. Both got much better from their rookie year to their sophomore year. I think it has something to do with them being able to out tough players in Europe but when they make it to the NBA, they have to learn other ways to be effective.

I still have hope that Oberto will be worth his contract next season.

[strangeweather]

I think an open paint is why got out rebounded by the guards from Dallas. Shooting jump shots will limit offensive rebound production.
Our top 3 players are most effective near the basket. Having Oberto standing around the basket means they settle for more midrange jumpers, because they run into more defenders in the paint.

If we get more high-percentage shots, we won't need as much offensive rebounding.

[furry_spurry]

Oberto will be starting on opening night.

[dbestpro]

Offensive rebounding is the most under rated stat. An offensive rebound is the equivilent to a defensive stop that requires the energy and skill of five players, but can be accomplished by one. It was actually the most valuable component of Nazr's game.

[waly.mg]

Oberto when he played for Argentina, the team don´t have problem with the inside game, palying with player like, Yao, Gasol, Duncan, Amare Stoudemire and J O´Neal, so why now, with Duncan in the field too, we must to have a problem?

[Bob Lanier]

Oberto isn't as Charmin-soft as Elson, which might be a deciding factor considering that neither contributes much to any major facet of the game.

[Obstructed_View]

Oberto gets boards and makes hustle plays while not using up shots. On a team with Parker, Ginobili and Duncan that's always a plus. With a year under his belt perhaps he can get to a pre-contract Malik level. That would be a big plus for the team.

[strangeweather]

Offensive rebounding is the most under rated stat. An offensive rebound is the equivilent to a defensive stop that requires the energy and skill of five players, but can be accomplished by one. It was actually the most valuable component of Nazr's game.
No doubt the ORBs were "the most valuable component of Nazr's game" -- it certainly wasn't the pump fakes.

But it's worth remembering that a lot of the reason that guys like Nazr and Oberto tend to get offensive rebounds is because they don't have a scoring game otherwise, so their defenders tend to leave them open to double team other players. Rebounding gets a lot easier if there's no one to box out.

Oberto's offensive rebound rate last year was 12.5%. Rasho's was 8.4%. That means that an additional one of every 25 shots gets offensively rebounded by having Oberto in the game instead of Rasho. If the team shoots 50% on the follow-up shots, having those ORBs is basically equivalent to increasing the team shooting percentage by 2%. However, when Rasho was on the court, the team had an effective field goal percentage of 51.9%, while the team only shot 48.5% when Oberto was in the game. (These aren't perfect comparisons, because they were sometimes on the court at the same time, but they should be close enough.) So even with all the extra ORBs, Oberto was costing them offense compared to Rasho.

Offensive rebounds also can equate to poor transition defense. If you stay under the basket trying to rebound missed shots, you're not getting back to stop the other team's fast break.

Don't get me wrong -- offensive rebounds are great. We could definitely have used more of them in the playoffs. But I don't think having a guy that's an offensive rebounder is better than having a guy with an actual offensive game.

[spursmode]

Weak. And not true.

We'll see. I don't think he is athletic enough. Spurs have had great success with athletic foreigners.

[TDMVPDPOY]

trade his ass

[velik_m]

I know he's not the best player on the bench or maybe even through the 8-12 spot but now that we are in dire need of a center we can't afford to lose anything, and I think including Oberto. He wasn't the starting center on the championship Argentina squad for nothing. He averaged 1 point and 2 rebounds this past season but he was the 11th or 12th man off the bench. But now that he may get a big role on the team, don't you think those numbers will get an automatic boost? Last year it was 1 ppg and 2 rpg while we didn't really need him, but this year that he gets a big part and maybe even a starting role those numbers have to go up. If he does get the starting center spot he will average at least 7 points and 8 rebounds. I know that that isn't a lot but when it comes from Oberto that's a major upgrade. And with the arrival of one of or maybe both Elson and Butler we might not even have a center problem after this season. Whatever comes from the Spurs FO about a bigger role for Oberto, I am 100% behind them. Call me crazy, but I am serious about my new sig.

you are crazy. The only improvement from Oberto in stats could come from increased playing time, but he'll foul out every other game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

banish him in exile

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bump. :smokin God I hope we keep him.

[Marcus Bryant]

My what a championship does for this forum's mood.

[timvp]

My hope for Oberto is that he'll take the same course as Ginobili and Nocioni. Both got much better from their rookie year to their sophomore year. I think it has something to do with them being able to out tough players in Europe but when they make it to the NBA, they have to learn other ways to be effective.

I still have hope that Oberto will be worth his contract next season.

I guess I hoped too much.

[Solid D]

:lol When you see that Brent Barry is set to make $5.5M this season, Horry $3.6M, Elson $3M and even Jackie Butler @ $2.37M...Oberto soldiering-up for $2.5M was a long-shot idea. Provided the Suns or some other team don't offer Fab >$4M, I think Fab will re-sign with the Spurs.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Elliotfan, you nailed it, well done. Same to the rest of you who saw it and said so in this thread.


My hope for Oberto is that he'll take the same course as Ginobili and Nocioni. Both got much better from their rookie year to their sophomore year. I think it has something to do with them being able to out tough players in Europe but when they make it to the NBA, they have to learn other ways to be effective.

I still have hope that Oberto will be worth his contract next season.

And wasn't timvp's comment strangely spot on. The way he played the postseason, he certainly earned his contract.

This year we'll see more of Butler if he has shown any aptitude for the system (ie. bball IQ), and I'm looking forward to that.

Oberto will stay, worry not. My reasoning is in the other Oberto thread.

[smeagol]

Oberto is a gonner to me, i don't see what use Spurs can do of him if they get Elson or/and Butler.


My hope for Oberto is that he'll take the same course as Ginobili and Nocioni. Both got much better from their rookie year to their sophomore year. I think it has something to do with them being able to out tough players in Europe but when they make it to the NBA, they have to learn other ways to be effective.

I still have hope that Oberto will be worth his contract next season.

The difference between the casual fan (and Bruno is not a casual fan but missed this one badly) and a knowledgeable one is basically a question of vision. Guys who know hoops can see through things that other fans can't.

Bumping these kinds of threads gives people the chance to see the differences between the people who know and the people who don't.

[smeagol]

:lol When you see that Brent Barry is set to make $5.5M this season, Horry $3.6M, Elson $3M and even Jackie Butler @ $2.37M...Oberto soldiering-up for $2.5M was a long-shot idea. Provided the Suns or some other team don't offer Fab >$4M, I think Fab will re-sign with the Spurs.


Agreed. People here complain because Oberto wants to make more money. As all rookies that contribute, Oberto is underpaid (certainly when compared to Elson, Butler or Barry).

But guys like chump say, well, the guy is already a millionare. WTF? Everybody wants to maximize their income. They guy who makes $25K a year would like to make $35K, the guy who makes $50K would like to make $75K, the guy who makes $125K woul like to make $175K and so on and so forth.

Even the guy who makes $1MM would like to make $1.5MM. There is nothing wrong with that.

[thousandth]

I don't know, if me be a casual fan or why :lol

But I hope we keep Oberto. I like him. Spurs needs a smart center to compliment with Tim.
Elson=athletic player but not smart player. Scola isn't a center, he played impressive like little fp and he can't help in defensive.

I still don't belive than Oberto leaves Spurs. :depressed

[Tippecanoe]

4.5 mil

thats the max i believe the spurs will pay to keep oberto. if any more, he's gone

[thousandth]

the big deal not how much money, the questions is if Spurs give him 2 or 3 years

[Manu Pacquiao]

I just don't see many reasons for optimism, based on how Oberto performed this season. He had an astonishingly bad 0.250 shooting percentage on jumpers (worst on the team), and he can't dunk, so his points basically came from dump-off passes and offensive rebounds that led to close-in shots.

While his offensive rebounding was effective, his defensive rebounding was roughly on par to Rasho's, and Rasho wasn't exactly known for his work on the boards.

He's not a good blocker. He's undersized for a center, and doesn't move very well for a power forward. The team's net production while he was on the floor was the worst on the team last year, by a significant amount.

I don't have anything against the guy, but I don't see anything there to get excited about.

About his poor jumpshooting-
He's not paid to be a jump shooter. He leaves that stuff to the experts, the main offensive guys in the team

He cant dunk-
Sure he can. But what all FIBA players mentality is is to shoot the assist pass given to you inside the paint as quickly, as efficiently, and with less energy wasted as you can. Dunk or Lay up = 2 points

Only makes point blank dump offs-
Thats perfect. You dont want him to dribble, go 1 on 1 and shake&bake. He's a cog in a well oiled machine. He only does limited stuff, but its important stuff nonetheless.

Rebounding = Rasho-
He's an adequate rebounder, with extra PT, his stats will go up. And he's tougher than Rasho.

Poor shot blocker-
Not everyone can be a great 1 on 1 shot blocker. He can leave the shotblocking to TD's weakside help defense. He just needs to clog the lanes, impede the progress of his man, and once his man takes off for a shot.. POINK! TD's blocks the shot as a sweeper.

Oberto's not as bad as you think he is. He boxes out, he gives great picks, he works hard and he seems to be a good teammate.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Spurs success is not dependant is whether Oberto stays. If he wants to much money, cut him.

[thousandth]

Spurs success is not dependant is whether Oberto stays. If he wants to much money, cut him.

Much money? He wants a contract with 2 or 3 years, money isn't a big deal

[Oh, Gee!!]

Much money? He wants a contract with 2 or 3 years, not money


you give him (or his agent) too much credit.

[thousandth]

you give him (or his agent) too much credit.

Maybe. :rolleyes

[Oh, Gee!!]

He's trying to S-Jax the Spurs

[phyzik]

He's trying to S-Jax the Spurs
:lol

I read that and had an image of Oberto 3 years down the road shooting up a strip club and getting into fights....

Made soda come out of my nose, it freaking burns! :lol

[bigbendbruisebrother]

There is a tempting comparison to be made between Malik Rose and Fabricio Oberto. I am sure RC and Pop won't make the same mistake twice. I'd like to see Fabricio back, but not with a Malik Rose contract. At some point, the Spurs are going to have to spend some money to keep our frontcourt from getting too old. I'd hate to see that sunk into another undersized, hustling forward.