Psssstt...Study Shows Public Schools Preform As Well As Private Schools..pass it on!

[Nbadan]

WASHINGTON – The federal Education Department reported yesterday that, in reading and math, children attending public schools generally do as well as or better than comparable children in private schools...

The study, carrying the imprimatur of the National Center for Education Statistics, part of the Education Department, was released without a news conference or comment from Education Secretary Margaret Spellings.

Sign On San Diego (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060715/news_1n15schools.html)

What? No fanfare by the WH? I wonder why?

[jochhejaam]

Students in private schools typically score higher than those in public schools, a finding confirmed in the study
:spin This excerpt should have been the lead title in the article as it's more representative of the truth :spin

[TDMVPDPOY]

it doesnt matter if you go private or public school, its all up to the student if they wanna pay attention and learn, do homework. Then you look at the schools programs offered, and the infrastructure there.

[xrayzebra]

IMO students who go to private schools have parents who want them to learn
and achieve, hence will pay for education. They make sure the dear little ones
pay attention and do homework. Also that teachers do their job, no union to
protect or make excuses for them. Mom and Dad are forking over money for their,
the teachers, performance.

The latter statement could be made for public schools. But people do not
perceive they are paying big money for their child's education, along with all the
neighbors. And the public school system protects itself. It really doesn't have
any accountability to anyone. When attacked it just says we need more money.
And it has always worked.

One more point, public schools in their defense, have been made to accept and
retain all students. Regardless of their abilitity to learn or of the social behavior
of the student. They have been required to feed breakfast to students, who
should be fed at home and act as babysitters for the disabled that parents do
not want to care for at home.

[boutons_]

I'm amazed the Repugs didn't kill this report/study, since it's surely is not what their charter-school base wants to hear. But of course, the charter school base is not interested in educational fundamentals, but in pushing their agenda, programming, into their children.

[Sec24Row7]

All i take from this is...

So no child left behind is working?

Yeah... didn't want to see that spin on things did you?

[Phenomanul]

Ummm where would home-schooled children rank???

[DarkReign]

Ummm where would home-schooled children rank???

Right below zealot :lol

[Phenomanul]

Right below zealot :lol


That's an irrelevant term with regards to academic aptitudes...


But I get your point..... despite the fact I disagree with it. :fro

[DarkReign]

That's an irrelevant term with regards to academic aptitudes...


But I get your point..... despite the fact I disagree with it. :fro

I know, I was just kidding.

Homeschooled kids probably score lower on average. Total speculation on my part (no data whatsoever to back it up).

The reason is, most homeschooled kids are just products of lazy parents. They are kept home for a reason and it isnt an education. I know that isnt the rule, I am sure there are 1 million different examples of homeschooled kids absolutely destroying relevant educational tests.

I just think homeschooling is very popular in the south for working purposes which would drag the average down.

[scott]

Actually, from what I understand, homeschoolers score higher on average. They are typically void of any social skills though.

[Nbadan]

Any kid can do better in school if they get adaquate and proper attention from an educated parent. That's what people don't understand. Teachers in Texas can have up to 21 kids in the classroom and each on of them can be in their own stage of development. Private school and public school kids are the same, some are better at writing, some at math, and some are more creative or street saive, but just because your kid goes to public school doesn't mean that you as a parent should not be actively involved in their education process.

[Nbadan]

Maybe now we know why the administration is keeping this report quiet

Republicans unveil school voucher plan
BEN FELLER
Associated Press


WASHINGTON - Congressional Republicans on Tuesday proposed a $100 million plan to let poor children leave struggling schools and attend private schools at public expense.

The voucher idea is one in a series of social conservative issues meant to energize the Republican base as midterm elections approach. In announcing their bills, House and Senate sponsors acknowledged that Congress likely won't even vote on the legislation this year.

Still, the move signals a significant education fight to come. GOP lawmakers plan to try to work their voucher plan into the No Child Left Behind law when it is updated in 2007.

<snip>

The Bush administration requested the school-choice plan, but Tuesday's media event caused some awkwardness for the Education Department. The agency just released a study that raises questions about whether private schools offer any advantage over public ones.
<snip>

MERCURY NEWS (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/15066856.htm)

[boutons_]

To show how complex and politicized this issue is, another take:

============================

July 18, 2006
Op-Ed Columnist

Spinning a Bad Report Card

By JOHN TIERNEY

Thanks to a new federal report comparing public and private schools, there’s no doubt that public schools have one huge advantage: the leaders of their unions are unrivaled masters of spin.

They didn’t merely celebrate the report’s release on Friday, they complained that the Bush administration tried to bury it by releasing it for the weekend. They spun so well that the report was treated as a public-school triumph that “casts doubt on the value of voucher programs,” as The Wall Street Journal described it.

But if anything, the report from the Education Department did just the opposite. It concluded, after compensating for socioeconomic differences and other factors, that public-school students score slightly better on tests in fourth grade, while private-school students score slightly better in eighth grade. Given a choice, would you rather be ahead in the fourth inning or later in the game?

But even if you ignore that trend, even if you focus on the overall similarity of the scores in both types of school, that’s still bad news for public schools. Their students ought to be scoring higher if you believe in the unions’ favorite prescription for improving education: more money.

Most private schools are not places like Exeter or Dalton. They’re Catholic parochial schools and others on lean budgets. According to federal surveys, the typical private school’s tuition is only about half what a public school spends per pupil.

The public schools are spending more even if you exclude their expenses for special education, buses, lunch programs and central administration, as William Howell and Paul Peterson found in a study of New York elementary schools. The political scientists calculated that the public schools were still spending twice as much per pupil as were the Catholic schools in New York.

General Motors would not celebrate the news that its $40,000 Cadillac performed almost as well as a $20,000 Honda. It would not have its dealers put up signs reading: “Why Pay Less? Our Cars Are Nearly As Good.” But that’s the logic of the teachers’ union leaders who want to prevent students from getting vouchers and taxpayers from saving money.

For fans of public schools, about the only bright spot in this new study is that it’s not as damning as previous comparisons, but that’s because it’s a much less rigorous study. Its authors caution that it’s of “modest utility,” and other scholars think that’s too kind. Some critics fault its methodology and say it understates the advantages of private schools, and some don’t think this kind of comparison can prove anything.

The best way to compare schools is not to simply look at test scores one year, because it’s impossible to account for the students’ intrinsic advantages and disadvantages, and their varying motivations for choosing one type of school over another. Researchers can try to control for factors like family income and ethnicity or race, but these are crude measures.

Why, for instance, do some poor parents switch to a private school while their equally poor next-door neighbors are content with public school? Are the private-school parents more motivated because they put more value on education? Or are they just more desperate for a change because their children were doing much worse in public school than the children next door?

The most scientific way to compare schools is with the kind of randomized experiment that has been conducted in New York, Dayton and Washington. In these cities, students from low-income families were given a chance to apply for school vouchers. After the vouchers were awarded by lottery, researchers tracked the voucher students in private schools and compared them with a control group: the losers of the lottery who remained in public school.

After three years, the white and Hispanic voucher students were doing as well as their counterparts in public school, and the African-American voucher students were testing a full grade level higher than the blacks in the control group. The parents of all the voucher students — white, Hispanic and African-American — reported that there was much less fighting, cheating, vandalism and absenteeism in their schools than did the public-school parents.

Even though the private schools spent less money per pupil than the public schools, the parents were much more satisfied with them. Happier parents, better students, lower costs — those are the clear advantages of private schools and voucher programs. No wonder the teachers’ unions are so busy spinning.

[Nbadan]

According to federal surveys, the typical private school’s tuition is only about half what a public school spends per pupil.

Let's test this survey with real world examples. Student spending on average in Texas is about $5,500 per pupil according to the latest studies. Tuition at private Catholic schools like Providence or Central Catholic might be comparable, or a little more per year, but the church makes up the difference to expose kids to religion. The Carver Academy is a private school and their tuition might be lower than $5,500 per year, but it gets a huge endowment from the Robinson family to keep it going. Kids at finer private schools in SA like Keystone pay upwards of $10,000+ per kid/per year, so all this talk about market forces driving prices lower and teaching getting better with more privatization is just a bunch of hot air.

[boutons_]

CCHS's is about $7500/year. Nearly half the students are on full/partial financial assistance.

I don't think charter schools have to take kids with "special needs" like public schools do. Special needs students consume huge amounts of public school money, vastly surpassing the $$/head for non-special students.

I know a special ed lady in NEISD who spent nearly all her time with NEISD lawyers vs lawyers + parents of special ed students, another fantastic sink for $$$.

Public schools can't be selective, have to take in all the crap students, while private/charter schools can be selective, taking only the better students, who probably have more schooling-involved parents.

I expected that charter school students would score much better on average than public school kids. Doesn't seem to be anywhere near the case.

[Nbadan]

There is a way for Texas schools to do a better job teaching, and spend less money in the process. Eliminate Middle Schools. The kids would go preKind-8th grade and then 9-12. This would eliminate the peer pressure on kids to be 'cool' in those 'inadaquate years' and states with no Middle Schools on average do better on testing than those kids with Middle Schools.

[Trainwreck2100]

As someone who went to both public schools<<<<<<<<private schools. It's way to easy to get lost in the public school system, and since you're parents are paying it makes them more involved.

[scott]

The tuition for the Catholic HS I went to was only $3200/yr

[Trainwreck2100]

The tuition for the Catholic HS I went to was only $3200/yr

How long ago was that?

[Phenomanul]

There is a way for Texas schools to do a better job teaching, and spend less money in the process. Eliminate Middle Schools. The kids would go preKind-8th grade and then 9-12. This would eliminate the peer pressure on kids to be 'cool' in those 'inadaquate years' and states with no Middle Schools on average do better on testing than those kids with Middle Schools.


Interesting philosophy... which states harbor this method?

[scott]

How long ago was that?

I graduated in 1998.

[Nbadan]

read it and weep..


The initial difference between Lutheran schools and all public schools was substantially larger (19.5 points) than was the case for all private schools. The average difference in adjusted mean mathematics scores between the two types of schools was 4.9 points and significantly different from zero. On the other hand, the initial difference between Conservative Christian schools and all public schools was substantially smaller (5.1 points) and not significant. The average difference in adjusted school means between Conservative Christian schools and all public schools was -7.6 points (i.e., a higher average school mean for public schools) and was significantly different from zero.

National Center for Education statistics (http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard//pubs/studies/2006461.asp)

[Nbadan]

Summary


In grades 4 and 8 for both reading and mathematics, students in private schools achieved at higher levels than students in public schools. The average difference in school means ranged from almost 8 points for grade 4 mathematics, to about 18 points for grade 8 reading. The average differences were all statistically significant. Adjusting the comparisons for student characteristics resulted in reductions in all four average differences of approximately 11 to 14 points. Based on adjusted school means, the average for public schools was significantly higher than the average for private schools for grade 4 mathematics, while the average for private schools was significantly higher than the average for public schools for grade 8 reading. The average differences in adjusted school means for both grade 4 reading and grade 8 mathematics were not significantly different from zero.

Comparisons were also carried out with subsets of private schools categorized by sectarian affiliation. After adjusting for student characteristics, raw score average differences were reduced by about 11 to 15 points. In grade 4, Catholic and Lutheran schools were each compared to public schools. For both reading and mathematics, the results were generally similar to those based on all private schools. In grade 8, Catholic, Lutheran, and Conservative Christian schools were each compared to public schools. For Catholic and Lutheran schools for both reading and mathematics, the results were again similar to those based on all private schools. For Conservative Christian schools, the average adjusted school mean in reading was not significantly different from that of public schools. In mathematics, the average adjusted school mean for Conservative Christian schools was significantly lower than that of public schools.

So the kids can read better in private school, and are better at Math in public schools through grade 4, but there is no statistical difference in Math by the time kids are tested in grade 8.

[Nbadan]

Interesting philosophy... which states harbor this method?

New Jersey, Baltimore, Cleveland and Philadelphia to name a few...


Experience on the classroom level has been bolstered by several recent studies, including those conducted by the Rand Corporation, a research organization, and the Philadelphia Education Fund, a nonprofit group that aids public schools, which said the K-8 model deserved consideration because in many cases students fared better than in middle schools.

A 2002 study by the Philadelphia Education Fund, in conjunction with Johns Hopkins University and the University of Pennsylvania, looked at 3,000 Philadelphia students in "high poverty" - in which at least 80 percent of them came from low-income families. The study found that typically - though not in all cases - a "high-poverty K-8 school outperforms the typical high-poverty middle school." And this year the Rand Corporation suggested that middle schools in the United States needed improvement and questioned their wisdom at a time when students are going through such vast changes.

Studies by prestigious research organizations and universities notwithstanding, an article in the March issue of Education Week with the headline "Report Questions Wisdom of Separate Middle Schools" evoked such a reaction from administrators in Cherry Hill that Tammy Murphy, an assistant superintendent, along with three middle school principals, responded with a three-page defense of middle school.

It is a position shared by Dr. Richard Brodow, superintendent of the Millburn Township schools.

For his part, Dr. Brodow said he would not consider changing to a K-8 model because the middle school "works well for us."

But Dr. Brodow, who started in the New York City schools, said he understood that what works in one district might not be successful in another. And he said he did not necessarily subscribe to the theory that one school for kindergarten through eighth grade was a city versus suburbs issue.

"It depends on the district," he said. "Every situation is unique. There are no cookie-cutter answers, whether it's urban or suburban. There's no magic bullet."

That said, the issue does seem to cut across those lines.

"We made our decision based on research and on the unique situation of Trenton," said Dr. James Lytle, the superintendent in Trenton, who was an administrator in Philadelphia public schools until 1998.

The Trenton school district, which has 14,000 students, will not build any more middle schools and is in the process of converting some schools to kindergarten through the eighth grade and building new ones specifically for that configuration.

Referring to the Philadelphia Education Fund study, Dr. Lytle said, "On almost any criteria, kids in K-8 schools in the upper grades did better than those in middle schools, and Philadelphia makes a perfect test in terms of the debate."

Small Schools Workshop (http://www.smallschoolsworkshop.org/nyt091204dnussabum.htm)