Spurs' Center Picture Getting Desperate

[crgassoc]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Do you agree about Pop playing mind games?


Spurs' Center Picture Getting Desperate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bill Ingram
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jul 15, 2006, 07:54


Rasho Nesterovic had to go. Nothing against Rasho, but for his own sake he needed to move on. His work ethic was such that Gregg Popovich rarely let him onto the court and it makes little sense to have a top dollar player who you never play. The trade to Toronto was a mercy move for Rasho, who will no doubt have a career year for the Raptors. The move made sense. At least it might have.

Nazr Mohammed was in a position to be the guaranteed starter for the Spurs had he chosen to accept the role. The only problem with that scenario was the fact that Popovich completely went away from Nazr late last season and so the man who started for the 2005 NBA Champs suddenly began to question how committed the Spurs were to him. Nazr decided to test the waters, and when the Detroit Pistons sat down and defined a clear role for him he took a walk.

The Spurs were left a little dumbfounded. Suddenly they were without a center on their roster. Popovich's mind games had come back to bite him in the hindquarters. With Tim Duncan being very vocal about not wanting to play center, the Spurs scrambled to find a list of free agent centers.

Their first choice was Portland free agent Joel Przybilla, but Przybilla liked what he had going in Portland. Choosing the low-expectations environment in Rip City over the intense and highly-demanding situation in San Antonio, Przybilla re-upped with the Blazers.

Next up was Jazz free agent Jarron Collins, but like Przybilla the Jazz center is expected to stay put. How sad is it that the Spurs were rejected by a player like Collins, who couldn't grab a rebound if you threw the ball at him? At least Przybilla can grab a board once in a while.

So - the A list is gone, the B list is gone, and the bottom of the barrel has officially become the resting place for the Spurs as they try desperately to fill their gaping hole in the middle.

At the bottom of the barrel is Jackie Butler, the New York Knicks' third-string center. Don't let his 6'11" 260lb. frame fool you - he's slow and clumsy. Even Isiah Thomas is scratching his head over this one, saying recently that he finds it difficult to justify matching a $7 million price tag for a guy who wouldn't play. You know it's bad when even Isiah Thomas ridicules your move.

The other guy the Spurs are trying to lure to Texas' River City is Denver free agent Francisco Elson. This powerhouse of the paint gave the Nuggets basically five and five last season before drastically falling off in the playoffs. Not that you can fall off drastically from a five and five season.

The Spurs absolute, last-ditch plan is to give 2005 draft pick Ian Mahinmi a shot. How solid is that plan? In the Spurs' win over the Dallas Mavericks in their first Rocky Mountain Revue game on Friday Mahinmi played 23 minutes and recorded four points, three rebounds . . .and seven fouls (you get 10).

I don't think the Mavericks will sweat the summer league loss to San Antonio when their chances of winning the Southwest Division get better by the day. If the Spurs can't do better than Elson or Butler their chances of being among the NBA's elite teams next season would seem to be between slim and none. They've got trouble in River City - with a capitol T and that rhymes with C and that stands for center - as in having none.

[SenorSpur]

All aboard the good ship PANIC

[ashbeeigh]

hoopsworld. next.

[SA210]

So the FO sucks. What's new?

[clambake]

Mavs have done fairly well while not having a center. Diop is ok, though.

[leemajors]

So the FO sucks. What's new?

yeah those 3 titles suck.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Do you agree about Pop playing mind games?


Spurs' Center Picture Getting Desperate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bill Ingram
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jul 15, 2006, 07:54


Rasho Nesterovic had to go. Nothing against Rasho, but for his own sake he needed to move on. His work ethic was such that Gregg Popovich rarely let him onto the court and it makes little sense to have a top dollar player who you never play. The trade to Toronto was a mercy move for Rasho, who will no doubt have a career year for the Raptors. The move made sense. At least it might have.

Nazr Mohammed was in a position to be the guaranteed starter for the Spurs had he chosen to accept the role. The only problem with that scenario was the fact that Popovich completely went away from Nazr late last season and so the man who started for the 2005 NBA Champs suddenly began to question how committed the Spurs were to him. Nazr decided to test the waters, and when the Detroit Pistons sat down and defined a clear role for him he took a walk.

The Spurs were left a little dumbfounded. Suddenly they were without a center on their roster. Popovich's mind games had come back to bite him in the hindquarters. With Tim Duncan being very vocal about not wanting to play center, the Spurs scrambled to find a list of free agent centers.

Their first choice was Portland free agent Joel Przybilla, but Przybilla liked what he had going in Portland. Choosing the low-expectations environment in Rip City over the intense and highly-demanding situation in San Antonio, Przybilla re-upped with the Blazers.

Next up was Jazz free agent Jarron Collins, but like Przybilla the Jazz center is expected to stay put. How sad is it that the Spurs were rejected by a player like Collins, who couldn't grab a rebound if you threw the ball at him? At least Przybilla can grab a board once in a while.

So - the A list is gone, the B list is gone, and the bottom of the barrel has officially become the resting place for the Spurs as they try desperately to fill their gaping hole in the middle.

At the bottom of the barrel is Jackie Butler, the New York Knicks' third-string center. Don't let his 6'11" 260lb. frame fool you - he's slow and clumsy. Even Isiah Thomas is scratching his head over this one, saying recently that he finds it difficult to justify matching a $7 million price tag for a guy who wouldn't play. You know it's bad when even Isiah Thomas ridicules your move.

The other guy the Spurs are trying to lure to Texas' River City is Denver free agent Francisco Elson. This powerhouse of the paint gave the Nuggets basically five and five last season before drastically falling off in the playoffs. Not that you can fall off drastically from a five and five season.

The Spurs absolute, last-ditch plan is to give 2005 draft pick Ian Mahinmi a shot. How solid is that plan? In the Spurs' win over the Dallas Mavericks in their first Rocky Mountain Revue game on Friday Mahinmi played 23 minutes and recorded four points, three rebounds . . .and seven fouls (you get 10).

I don't think the Mavericks will sweat the summer league loss to San Antonio when their chances of winning the Southwest Division get better by the day. If the Spurs can't do better than Elson or Butler their chances of being among the NBA's elite teams next season would seem to be between slim and none. They've got trouble in River City - with a capitol T and that rhymes with C and that stands for center - as in having none.


yawn..

sorry bill i give pop the benefit of the doubt on shaping the team. by the way does anyone think bill ingram has insight on tim duncan that pop doesn't?

[T Park]

:lol

Hey, let em get Butler and Mahinmi and bring em over.

Just discount the Spurs and keep it up.


Spurs don't mind getting discounted.

[ducks]

duncan has played center since dave retired

[wildbill2u]

I have a trade that might work: We trade Williams, Bonner, and Ginobelli for Rasho Nesterovich.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Getting rid of two players who couldn't get minutes in the playoffs = mind games?

And any attempt at credibility gets shot to hell when you try to convince the reader that it's a bad move because ISIAH THOMAS, PROBABLY THE WORST GM IN THE LEAGUE, says it's a bad move.

Not only that, but no mention of Javtokas, which I think might have been the biggest snub of any of the centers that the Spurs pursued, and if you really want to make the Spurs look bad that was the way to go. No one seems to know the details but you can spin it as either a) the Spurs tried to low ball a guy even when they had their backs to the wall and he walked away from the table or b) they made a reasonable offer and they are in such a bad situation that even a Euro center that they have such a long relationship with doesn't want to play for them.

[itzsoweezee]

well that was completely on point. would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[Ocotillo]

I must have missed Duncan being vocal about not wanting to play center. Maybe this is the case but I haven't heard it.

If just about any other team had drafted Duncan out of college, he would be playing center today. David Robinson made the move to power forward inevetiable.

Seecondly, I don't think Collins was the next choice after Pryzbella. Would they not have made an offer to him if he were. His agreeing to terms with the Jazz came after our offer to Elson and Butler.

the premise of the article is correct though in that we may be finding ourselves up a creek with nary a paddle in sight.

[pache100]

Do you agree about Pop playing mind games?

I don't agree with much I read on hoopsworld. I take everything there with a 5lb bag of salt.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The other guy the Spurs are trying to lure to Texas' River City is Denver free agent Francisco Elson. This powerhouse of the paint gave the Nuggets basically five and five last season before drastically falling off in the playoffs. Not that you can fall off drastically from a five and five season.




Interesting....if I just change a couple of words I get the following......

The other guy the Spurs cut loose from Texas' River City is Rasho Nesterovic. This powerhouse of the paint gave the Spurs basically five and five last season before drastically falling off in the playoffs. Not that you can fall off drastically from a five and five season.

[FromWayDowntown]

These sorts of criticisms tend to make me laugh more than anything else.

To read the column, one would think that the center spot was the driving force behind a 63 win season that very nearly saw the Spurs overcome a 1-3 deficit in the 2nd round and that the Spurs will never recover from losing two talents like Nazr and Rasho. It's a preposterous, Chicken Little-like argument.

Do the Spurs need a center? Sure. Is it imperative that the Spurs have 2 MLE-type players to man that spot? I don't think so. Can the Spurs find players who can provide numbers and do little things as well or better than the two who've left? I'm guessing that they can.

It took about 3 weeks of negotiating and signing time for Rasho and Nazr to go from useless stiffs to the lionized departed. It's ridiculous.

[ca®lo]

hoopsworld. we should stop reading right there.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

At the bottom of the barrel is Jackie Butler, the New York Knicks' third-string center. Don't let his 6'11" 260lb. frame fool you - he's slow and clumsy. Even Isiah Thomas is scratching his head over this one, saying recently that he finds it difficult to justify matching a $7 million price tag for a guy who wouldn't play. You know it's bad when even Isiah Thomas ridicules your move.

I think you'd know it's a bad move if Isiah is applauding it. That paragraph made me :lol

[waly.mg]

The Problem here is Tim Duncan

He say he´s not a center, but every center of the league think yes

If you are Center and you sign with the Spurs, you know then you are going to be the center backup behind Duncan

You Can be Starter, but you are the Second center

[infinite styles]

Did the Spurs actually go after Collins or was he just linked to them by attrition. And from all the scouting reports Butler is supposed to have great footwork and usually played over the more highly paid centers on the team. Anyways people love to kick great teams and players when they sense that they aren't doing what they believe they should be doing. I feel like if any mind games are being played by Pop, its letting people believe that the Spurs just can't do right this summer and discount them. And thats the place the Spurs usually like playing.

[weebo]

This Spurs team is built around three players. The Duncan-Robinson era is no more. Therefore, we don't really need a center. How about trading or searching for a forward who can block a shot and rebound a goddam ball every now and again?

[furry_spurry]

As for the original question- yes, Pop plays mind games. I thought everyone knew that.

[Louis]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Do you agree about Pop playing mind games?


Spurs' Center Picture Getting Desperate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bill Ingram
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jul 15, 2006, 07:54


Rasho Nesterovic had to go. Nothing against Rasho, but for his own sake he needed to move on. His work ethic was such that Gregg Popovich rarely let him onto the court and it makes little sense to have a top dollar player who you never play. The trade to Toronto was a mercy move for Rasho, who will no doubt have a career year for the Raptors. The move made sense. At least it might have.

Nazr Mohammed was in a position to be the guaranteed starter for the Spurs had he chosen to accept the role. The only problem with that scenario was the fact that Popovich completely went away from Nazr late last season and so the man who started for the 2005 NBA Champs suddenly began to question how committed the Spurs were to him. Nazr decided to test the waters, and when the Detroit Pistons sat down and defined a clear role for him he took a walk.

The Spurs were left a little dumbfounded. Suddenly they were without a center on their roster. Popovich's mind games had come back to bite him in the hindquarters. With Tim Duncan being very vocal about not wanting to play center, the Spurs scrambled to find a list of free agent centers.

Their first choice was Portland free agent Joel Przybilla, but Przybilla liked what he had going in Portland. Choosing the low-expectations environment in Rip City over the intense and highly-demanding situation in San Antonio, Przybilla re-upped with the Blazers.

Next up was Jazz free agent Jarron Collins, but like Przybilla the Jazz center is expected to stay put. How sad is it that the Spurs were rejected by a player like Collins, who couldn't grab a rebound if you threw the ball at him? At least Przybilla can grab a board once in a while.

So - the A list is gone, the B list is gone, and the bottom of the barrel has officially become the resting place for the Spurs as they try desperately to fill their gaping hole in the middle.

At the bottom of the barrel is Jackie Butler, the New York Knicks' third-string center. Don't let his 6'11" 260lb. frame fool you - he's slow and clumsy. Even Isiah Thomas is scratching his head over this one, saying recently that he finds it difficult to justify matching a $7 million price tag for a guy who wouldn't play. You know it's bad when even Isiah Thomas ridicules your move.

The other guy the Spurs are trying to lure to Texas' River City is Denver free agent Francisco Elson. This powerhouse of the paint gave the Nuggets basically five and five last season before drastically falling off in the playoffs. Not that you can fall off drastically from a five and five season.

The Spurs absolute, last-ditch plan is to give 2005 draft pick Ian Mahinmi a shot. How solid is that plan? In the Spurs' win over the Dallas Mavericks in their first Rocky Mountain Revue game on Friday Mahinmi played 23 minutes and recorded four points, three rebounds . . .and seven fouls (you get 10).

I don't think the Mavericks will sweat the summer league loss to San Antonio when their chances of winning the Southwest Division get better by the day. If the Spurs can't do better than Elson or Butler their chances of being among the NBA's elite teams next season would seem to be between slim and none. They've got trouble in River City - with a capitol T and that rhymes with C and that stands for center - as in having none.

I totally agree with this article...

BTW The Spurs ain't winning shit next season...

[mabber]

I totally agree with this article...

BTW The Spurs ain't winning shit next season...

They'll win more games and go farther in the playoffs (possibly the title) than the Rockets, that's for sure.

[Louis]

They'll win more games and go farther in the playoffs (possibly the title) than the Rockets, that's for sure.

Just pray that TMac and Yao are injured again..

[picnroll]

I totally agree with this article...

BTW The Spurs ain't winning shit next season...
The annual pre-lottery Rockets troll.

[FromWayDowntown]

Just pray that TMac and Yao are injured again..

I'd hate to waste a prayer on something that will likely be true without the need of prayer.

[Leetonidas]

I totally agree with this article...

BTW The Spurs ain't winning shit next season...

I wouldn't want the Spurs to win shit. The title of shit winning belongs to the Rockets.

[Mavs_man_41]

I wouldn't want the Spurs to win shit. The title of shit winning belongs to the Rockets.

Your both wrong........the mavs are taking home the trophy next year :fro

[Louis]

I wouldn't want the Spurs to win shit. The title of shit winning belongs to the Rockets.

Try winning back to back titles first... :blah :lol

[furry_spurry]

Spurs' Center Picture Getting Desperate ?

When people start threads about getting Wang Zhi Zhi :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

Try winning back to back titles first... :blah :lol

Ya he's got u there...........

Wait, you've both got me, the mavs havent won shit. :depressed

[Mr. Body]

I'm starting to think most of the league deals are hanging on these two RFA signings, including the 'blockbuster rumors' that were floating around. Not that San Antonio is a player, by any means, but that Denver and New York have to decide what they want to do before setting off the dominos. And they're both gonna take the full seven to do it.

In effect, everything's stalled out because of these offer sheets. Kind of funny.

And boring.

[Louis]

I'm starting to think most of the league deals are hanging on these two RFA signings, including the 'blockbuster rumors' that were floating around. Not that San Antonio is a player, by any means, but that Denver and New York have to decide what they want to do before setting off the dominos. And they're both gonna take the full seven to do it.

In effect, everything's stalled out because of these offer sheets. Kind of funny.

And boring.

Something very familiar with Spurs' Basketball....

[dbestpro]

Hoopsworld is written by folks who are fans just like us. They don't have or are privledged to any special information. Point in case is when he refers to Collins as being an A option. He actually was option C behind option B Javtokas. Collins did not want to wait to be option C, so he resigned. Butler at the age of 21 and the endorsement of L. Brown proves his work ethic and growth potential. Hell, I was at the game last year against the Knicks and this guy was the only one who hustled and ate Nazr's and Rasho's lunch. Who ever writes for hoops world needs to go back to message board 101 cause is obviously makes it up as he goes and is not worthy of quoting.

[clambake]

Tell you what, you give us tim duncan and you can have any 2 mavericks you want.

[Mavs_man_41]

Tell you what, you give us tim duncan and you can have any 2 mavericks you want.

Your crazy, no way.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

If Isiah thinks it's such a terrible move, don't match! For the love of God, don't match!

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho had a poor work ethic?

Yeah, this guy really does his homework.

I'm disappointed in furry.

[Supergirl]

This guy ignores several key points:
1. Jackie Butler is a lot better rated than he thinks, and Thomas handpicked him because he liked what he saw. He's certainly better than Collins, and I haven't seen a whole lot of evidence that Pop even wanted Collins all that much.
2. Rasho has a poor work ethic? I think not. That's the one thing you can't fault him on. He was moved because they overpaid him originally, because they had to in order to lure him here. But his contract crippled their ability to do anything else, when they don't really need a top notch C, not with TD on the team.
3. Mohammed isn't worth more than the Spurs offered, and he's not better than Butler or Elson, frankly. His poor hands and low basketball IQ are a serious liability. I'm not sorry he's gone, and I don't think Pop is either. I'm hoping Butler will come aboard, and be much more coachable.
4. Spurs will be a contender in the West as long as they have TD, and Manu and Parker behind him. If this writer thinks otherwise, he's a fool.

[mabber]

Tell you what, you give us tim duncan and you can have any 2 mavericks you want.

You'd give up Dirk & Howard for Duncan? I sure wouldn't. I'd consider it strongly if Duncan was 3-4 years younger.

[Que Gee]

As for the original question- yes, Pop plays mind games. I thought everyone knew that.

I think they do. But this is probably the first time I've seen anyone in Hoopsworld right anything correct. The little Mind Game BS that Pop pulls did bite him in the ass this time around. That goes for players going and coming.

[coachmac87]

You'd give up Dirk & Howard for Duncan? I sure wouldn't. I'd consider it strongly if Duncan was 3-4 years younger.


ur fucking crazy!!!j ud consider it 3-4 years ago....at that time he was the best player on the planet...back to back mvp...and shit if i were a mavs fan id do it now

[FromWayDowntown]

I think they do. But this is probably the first time I've seen anyone in Hoopsworld right anything correct. The little Mind Game BS that Pop pulls did bite him in the ass this time around. That goes for players going and coming.

Had the Spurs ended this summer with Rasho and Nazr as their centers, I suspect that most of this board would be in upheaval about that fact.

Now they've cleared out a bad deal and said sayonarra to a guy whose most consistent attribute was his inconsistency and to read these boards, you'd think they gave up on two all-star centers.

Pop's only "mind game" is one that's aimed at winning big prizes. Certain guys have shorter leashes than others and certain guys are more dispensable than others, but that strikes me as obscenely normal in the NBA. By contrast, to a man, the players on the 2005 title team talked about how much they respected Pop's honesty and candor with them, and how Pop is quite different than coaches in other organizations who make decisions and then don't bother to tell the players why the decisions were made.

If Pop is playing a mind game with his players, it must be the one where the rules are play well on a consistent basis or he will sit your ass.

[infinite styles]

Had the Spurs ended this summer with Rasho and Nazr as their centers, I suspect that most of this board would be in upheaval about that fact.

Now they've cleared out a bad deal and said sayonarra to a guy whose most consistent attribute was his inconsistency and to read these boards, you'd think they gave up on two all-star centers.

Pop's only "mind game" is one that's aimed at winning big prizes. Certain guys have shorter leashes than others and certain guys are more dispensable than others, but that strikes me as obscenely normal in the NBA. By contrast, to a man, the players on the 2005 title team talked about how much they respected Pop's honesty and candor with them, and how Pop is quite different than coaches in other organizations who make decisions and then don't bother to tell the players why the decisions were made.

If Pop is playing a mind game with his players, it must be the one where the rules are play well on a consistent basis or he will sit your ass.


I'm with you on this. I was really trying to figure what the writer was getting at with the "mind games" deal. We all know that Pop plays mind games with opponents but nothing that has happened this summer has anything to do with the mind games theory. To be honest everybody wanted these two guys gone after the season and deep down everybody knew that we weren't going to get much in return for them. My thinking is that if you can get talent that is equal to what just went out at half the cost then was the difference.

[DarrinS]

The article said Duncan was vocal about not wanting to play center?

Even though Tim is officially listed as a PF, doesn't he pretty much play center RIGHT NOW???


IMO, the Spurs only need a "big" to give Tim a rest and to bang against the likes of Shaq -- nothing more. I'd be more interested in getting another quality PF and someone to eventually fill Bowen's shoes.


Heck, didn't we win a title with Will Purdue at center?

[FromWayDowntown]

Heck, didn't we win a title with Will Purdue at center?

Well, the Spurs also happened to have that Robinson fellow just hanging around at that time.

He was pretty good.

It's not as if Will Perdue was playing significant minutes in that title run. It would be a bit like saying the Spurs won the 2003 championship with Steve Smith at shooting guard.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Well, the Spurs also happened to have that Robinson fellow just hanging around at that time.

He was pretty good.

It's not as if Will Perdue was playing significant minutes in that title run. It would be a bit like saying the Spurs won the 2003 championship with Steve Smith at shooting guard.


FWD, in Darrin's defense, it was pretty hard to tell who our primary center was that year, The Admiral or Big Willie.

[timvp]

Bill Ingram and the rest of hoopsworld is trash.

[E20]

I would have stuck with Rasho and Nazr, now that it seems we're getting garbage.

[Obstructed_View]

So when the Spurs win 60 games next year, someone from the team wins MVP because of the predictions of doom, right? Isn't that the formula for MVP now?

[furry_spurry]

Rasho had a poor work ethic?

Yeah, this guy really does his homework.

I'm disappointed in furry.
Because I didn't comment on that- I figured it wasn't worth the typing. A guy who works out twice a day during his summer vacation needs no one to defend him against a bozo from hoopsworld.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What a load of tosh. All we need from our centre is a bit of tough D, boardwork and the odd blocked shot, not major production.

The guy also obviously has no clue that Butler has some game, and certainly game that can be developed.

What I'd like to know is why we didn't go after Steven Hunter. Wouldn't he be better than Elson?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I think we've learned from overpaying Rasho/Malik.

[Kori Ellis]

What I'd like to know is why we didn't go after Steven Hunter. Wouldn't he be better than Elson?

He's not a free agent.

[Obstructed_View]

He's not a free agent.
And he sucks and is injury prone.

[exstatic]

This shit makes me fucking laugh. We haven't had an NBA quality starting center since 2003, and NOW it's desperate? :lol If we have to have shitty centers, I'm glad Pop is finally not going to overpay them!!!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

duncan has played center since dave retired
Which is why we were able to play our real lineup against Dallas, right? :rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

And he sucks and is injury prone.
I'd prefer him over Elson. But oh well.

[Knoxville Spur]

I think we've learned from overpaying Rasho/Malik.

Exactly. We will reap the benefits from unloading Rasho's contract, our cap situation looks a lot better next year and great in 2008.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He's not a free agent.

That would be why then! :lol

I must have seen him in a trade thread and thought he was an FA.

Two days to go and we'll know a lot more. Man I hope they don't match Butler. Elson, either way is fine.

[furry_spurry]

We will reap the benefits from unloading Rasho's contract, our cap situation looks a lot better next year and great in 2008.
No it doesn't. Spurs are over the cap next summer with or without Rasho's contract.

[GrandeDavid]

I want to save this piece and send it back to author, oh, around March 2007.