The new roster

[usckk]

After the signing of Elson, the Spurs currently have 14 players with guarenteed contracts. However, there can only be 12 players on the active roster. Which two will sit out?

One will definently be Eric Williams, but who will be the other?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Why is Erik Williams a definite?

[Leetonidas]

Rich Melzer is on the list or no?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I say Oberto and Sanders...and Melzer if he makes the team.

[Leetonidas]

Nah, if Melzer makes the team, Sanders probably won't. So I think it'll be Eric Williams, Oberto, Jacque Vaughn.

[El_Mago]

PG: Parker/Udrih
SG: Ginobili/Barry
SF: Bowen/Finley
PF: Duncan/Bonner/Horry
C: Elson/Butler/Oberto

IR:Williams, Vaughn, Melzer

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

So, it pretty much looks like this:

Parker/Udrih/Vaughn

Manu/Finley/Barry

Bowen/Williams/Melzer(?)

Duncan/Bonner/Horry

Elson/Butler/Oberto

Offensively we have:
2 true low post players in Timmy and Butler,
2 bigs who can shoot the 3 in Bonner and Horry,
1 big who can run the floor in Elson,
1 big who is a scrub and gets a chance to prove us all wrong in Oberto.

4 smalls who can shoot the three in Manu, Finley, Barry, Bowen,
2 smalls who can slash in Parker and Manu,
3 pure shooters in Finley, Barry and Udrih,
3 defensive maniacs (one one ball, one lock-up, one gambler) in Vaughn, Bowen, Manu,
1 super hustle guy in Williams.

Defensively we have:
a lot of work to do!

I don't think this team is a massive downgradae from last year, in fact I think it's about on par;
Udrih or Vaughn>NVE
Butler+Elson=Rasho+Nazr
Bonner and Williams will surprise...
but we have to hope at least one of the new bigs (Elson, Butler or Bonner) really takes to our defensive system... that is most likely to be Butler, although fingers crossed that Elson will adjust well to it.

We also managed to dump yet another nasty contract in preparation for more future flexibility.

Overall, I give the FO a B- as we still need our Bowen apprentice.

What do people think?

[koopa]

i'm not to worried about the defensive part, cause it seems it will be outlawed soon

[El_Mago]

Beno Udrih really needs to define his role on this ball club, and get over that petty confidence bullshit. This is his third year with the club.

We really lack some youth at the SG/SF....even if one of the guys from Summer League makes the roster....we still lack that youth because none of those guys will really see the floor....Melzer or Smith.

With the exception of Tony and Manu, we have no one who can create their own shot off the drible.

Defensively, Elson or Butler is going to have to come along real quick or else this team won't be seeing a championship. I'm not saying DPOY, but we need them to contest shots and bring down the hammer on players.....both players don't seem to mind throwing around the beef, so thats good.

I really like the addition of Bonner. He can spread the floor for the team, and can cause some serious matchup problems if he finds his stroke here in SA.

[ChumpDumper]

We almost have to make a trade before training camp.

[T Park]

Eric Williams will NOT be on the IR.

Melzer wont make the team.

Oberto and whoever else.

Thats it.

Vaughn and Williams will be active.

[SenorSpur]

PG: Parker/Udrih
SG: Ginobili/Barry
SF: Bowen/Finley
PF: Duncan/Bonner/Horry
C: Elson/Butler/Oberto

IR:Williams, Vaughn, Melzer


Maybe it's me, but I still don't like the look of this roster. I cannot see Oberto giving the Spurs "big minutes" at the five spot.

[J.T.]

Maybe it's me, but I still don't like the look of this roster. I cannot see Oberto giving the Spurs "big minutes" at the five spot.

I expect Duncan plays at least 10 minutes at 5 each game with Horry and Bonner holding down the 4, while the other three centers divide the rest of the minutes that Duncan doesn't play depending on who's doing better that game.

Our center situation isn't as bad as it looks.

[Nbadan]

We almost have to make a trade before training camp.

I don't see how the Spurs can be comfortable with the Vaghn/Udrih combination at back-up PG., neither has shown that they can adaquately fill in for Parker, at least for awhile. Kinda takes Barry out of the trade equation because he can play point. Udrin-Oberto-Horry-(the rights to Scola) are still my top trade possibilities, but Williams may also go.

[Kori Ellis]

I have a feeling Williams won't ever even come to San Antonio.

So I'm guessing that Barry/Williams get traded by the end of the summer.

Then the 12 active would be:

Butler
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Elson
Horry
Bonner
Oberto
Finley
Beno
Some new guy

2-3 Inactive

Vaughn
Melzer/Sanders/Whoever

Then if they find that Oberto isn't getting any time, they might move him to inactive and activate one of the young guys.

[sabar]

I'd have to agree that Barry being able to play at PG will be important, at least I think. Let Finley/Barry back up the SG spot with Vaghn/Udrih/Barry at PG. It'd be ugly to trade Barry and find out that Vaghn nor Udrih can adequately backup Parker. And we know Parker isn't pulling 40+mpg, plus the fact that he needs help if he's in a slump come playoff time.

[Dalhoop]

Going into the offseason, finding two centers was not what the team needed, those needs were created by the team. The idea that they covered for their mistake by signing two men that have yet to earn a starting spot does not make up for the loss (and wont until one of them proves that they SHOULD be starting in this league)

Replacing two centers with a combined three rings with two without starters experiance in not and "Equal" (=) It is a step back (until one shos that he can play)

Whether you guys think Rasho and Nazr can play or not does not change the fact that both will be starting on teams next year and getting 30 mintutes each. the one thing that those two have (experiance) is the one thing that the two new ones don't.

The long athletic three has not been filled.

The (Long term) back-up PG has not been filled, again either Udrih is the guy or not, if not then he is taking the seat of whoever wants to try for the role and he should be booted, if he is then put is butt on the floor.

The Back-up PF position has been filled (Bonner)

And this is a "B-"?

You fill one need out of three and had to scramble to cover the center situation that collapsed.

I would give them a "B" for covering the center position (The crop was a little thin this FA season).

An "F" on the Athletic SF

A "C-" on th back-up PG (this puts the problem on the back burner till next year, doesn't "solve it")

And a "C-" on the back-up PF. The reason for such a low grade here is because Bonner is not a low-post PF. He will not be getting the rebounds or blocks that you would expect from the PF position, he is an outside player, not an inside player. The team needed improved rebounding, Bonner is not that guy. I know, you'll are going to say "We have centers to rebound", but that is also the job of the PF ... Like it or not.


I really like the addition of Bonner. He can spread the floor for the team, and can cause some serious matchup problems if he finds his stroke here in SA.

I agree with this, but he will not be seeing much time playing behind Duncan. He will spread the floor for the second team, not first and only for as long as it takes Timmy to catch his breath.

[Bruno]

... Clueless BS ...


:rollin You re-post the same crap full of mistakes.
Last you have been badly owned with same arguments and you re-post the same thing, either you're really slow to understand or you're a troll.

[FromWayDowntown]

Replacing two centers with a combined three rings with two without starters experiance in not and "Equal" (=) It is a step back (until one shos that he can play)

Whether you guys think Rasho and Nazr can play or not does not change the fact that both will be starting on teams next year and getting 30 mintutes each. the one thing that those two have (experiance) is the one thing that the two new ones don't.

Experience can be overrated. Look at your precious Mavs -- the response to signing Butler and Elson is about as lukewarm to the response the Mavs got last season for signing Diop. Did Diop have experience in his 5 NBA starts in the 4 seasons preceding his first in Dallas? Were the Mavericks harmed by the fact that Diop had no experience?

Players play, regardless of their experience levels. The success or failure of this team is not built in any meaningful way on the ability of its centers. The Spurs needed a couple of big bodies that are servicebale and who can stay on the floor in a playoff setting against an athletic opponent. Rather than just settle for that -- they've managed an apparent coup in Butler. I'd say that they've done exceedingly well at the center spot by dropping two overpaid and marginally-productive players for 2 guys who will make half as much as Nazr will pull down in Detroit, but will probably offer at least as much production (and maybe even a shred of consistency).


The long athletic three has not been filled.

Yet. Little noticed in these moves is the fact that the Spurs now have some ability to make other moves by virtue of finally having a significant expiring contract to package with something of greater value in the hope of filling a need like the long 3 outside of free agency -- where the pickings are likely to be much, much better. The long athletic 3 is an incomplete.


The (Long term) back-up PG has not been filled, again either Udrih is the guy or not, if not then he is taking the seat of whoever wants to try for the role and he should be booted, if he is then put is butt on the floor.

* * * *

A "C-" on th back-up PG (this puts the problem on the back burner till next year, doesn't "solve it")


I don't know that there's ever been a need for a long-term back up PG. The point is to have a player in that spot who can produce, whether he's going to be here for 1 year or 10. Very few teams devote long contracts and significant money to locking up backup points, so this strikes me as a contrived "need." If the Spurs can get net positive production from Vaughn or Udrih in a playoff situation (average a bucket a night; don't cause the 2nd unit to lose leads; share the ball to create shots; defend without fouling excessively) they're already better than they were last year at the back-up point spot.


I agree with this, but he will not be seeing much time playing behind Duncan. He will spread the floor for the second team, not first and only for as long as it takes Timmy to catch his breath.

I think you're thought processes here are a bit too linear. Bonner will actually see minutes in stretches alongside Timmy, particularly if he demonstrates that he can shoot the 3 consistently in a Spurs uniform. That's the point -- to have another guy who can spread the floor. I think one thing that Pop took from the Dallas series as a positive for his team was the recollection that if Tim has more room to operate, he's still unstoppable. The Spurs have some guys who can shoot the 3, but other than Horry, they didn't have a player with length who could step outside and do anything. You couldn't lift Rasho or Nazr above the arc and expect their defenders to step out with them. If you play Timmy with Bonner or Horry, though, long defenders who are likely to double have a pretty significant decision to make about whether they double Duncan and leave 3 point shooters alone. That sort of spacing should create more opportunities for Timmy to operate against single coverage, creates great pass-out opportunities when he is doubled, and likely takes a long defender out of the lane to create more space for Parker and Ginobili to operate and get to the rim.

We'll see come November.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

That's the point -- to have another guy who can spread the floor. I think one thing that Pop took from the Dallas series as a positive for his team was the recollection that if Tim has more room to operate, he's still unstoppable. The Spurs have some guys who can shoot the 3, but other than Horry, they didn't have a player with length who could step outside and do anything. You couldn't lift Rasho or Nazr above the arc and expect their defenders to step out with them. If you play Timmy with Bonner or Horry, though, long defenders who are likely to double have a pretty significant decision to make about whether they double Duncan and leave 3 point shooters alone. That sort of spacing should create more opportunities for Timmy to operate against single coverage, creates great pass-out opportunities when he is doubled, and likely takes a long defender out of the lane to create more space for Parker and Ginobili to operate and get to the rim.

GREAT analysis....at least a few people on the forum still pay attention to the actual game of basketball :)

[ALVAREZ6]

Since NVE is no longer a Spur, the team has done anything but downgraded.

[spurster]

The Spurs have some guys who can shoot the 3, but other than Horry, they didn't have a player with length who could step outside and do anything. You couldn't lift Rasho or Nazr above the arc and expect their defenders to step out with them. If you play Timmy with Bonner or Horry, though, long defenders who are likely to double have a pretty significant decision to make about whether they double Duncan and leave 3 point shooters alone. That sort of spacing should create more opportunities for Timmy to operate against single coverage, creates great pass-out opportunities when he is doubled, and likely takes a long defender out of the lane to create more space for Parker and Ginobili to operate and get to the rim.
Also hopefully, Butler and Elson will be able to 1) hit some midrange shots and 2) match up with the Mavs and Suns ever so slightly better. Or is it that the Spurs will use Butler/Elson against most teams and turn to Horry/Bonner to counter small ball?

[callo1]

I have a feeling Williams won't ever even come to San Antonio.

So I'm guessing that Barry/Williams get traded by the end of the summer.

Then the 12 active would be:

Butler
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Elson
Horry
Bonner
Oberto
Finley
Beno
Some new guy

2-3 Inactive

Vaughn
Melzer/Sanders/Whoever

Then if they find that Oberto isn't getting any time, they might move him to inactive and activate one of the young guys.


yup.

[spursmode]

I have a feeling Williams won't ever even come to San Antonio.

So I'm guessing that Barry/Williams get traded by the end of the summer.

Then the 12 active would be:

Butler
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Elson
Horry
Bonner
Oberto
Finley
Beno
Some new guy

2-3 Inactive

Vaughn
Melzer/Sanders/Whoever

Then if they find that Oberto isn't getting any time, they might move him to inactive and activate one of the young guys.

[spursmode]

I have a feeling Williams won't ever even come to San Antonio.

So I'm guessing that Barry/Williams get traded by the end of the summer.

Then the 12 active would be:

Butler
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Elson
Horry
Bonner
Oberto
Finley
Beno
Some new guy

2-3 Inactive

Vaughn
Melzer/Sanders/Whoever

Then if they find that Oberto isn't getting any time, they might move him to inactive and activate one of the young guys.

oops sorry about the last post.

I agree though for this reason. I can't see the spurs being all that happy with someone earning $2,500,000 or more sitting on IR for the season.

[spurster]

It's no longer "Injured Reserve", but simply reserves. The Spurs can switch players on and off their reserves each game, so I think we'll see Pop try all sorts of things.

[Mr. Body]

If Oberto is on the team starting the season (probably), then he has to play. They have to see what he can offer, to see if he's a rotation guy or has any trade value. They can't eat his salary without giving him another shot.

[furry_spurry]

Butler+Elson=Rasho+Nazr

Even the Spurs front office isn't claiming this. :lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Which three will be on the IR.?

[conqueso]

Butler+Elson=Rasho+Nazr

Even the Spurs front office isn't claiming this. :lol

Yeah, I hear what Dalhoop is saying. I think a lot of Spurs fans are just so happy right now to actually have any centers on their roster after having to sweat out the last few weeks with none. Based on what we know so far, Butler + Elson <<< Rasho + Nazr.

But, FWD brings up the good points that Butler and Elson have bigger upsides, especially long term in Butler's case, than Nazr and Rasho. Furthermore, having these two guys split the MLE and getting Rasho's bloated contract off the books is going to help the Spurs' prospects of signing other FAs at some point in time.

I like what we've done with the center position: Rasho and Nazr, while they may be overall better than their replacements, were done in San Antonio. Pop didn't want to play them, and they didn't want to play for Pop. New blood is exactly what we needed, and considering the dearth of available centers, we did a good job.

We also did a good job of managing salaries this summer, although packaging Barry's contract off somewhere is the FOs current wet dream. Fiscally, Spurs are in good shape.

We did not address the need for a long 3, and I agree with Dalhoop; after the center position, that is the number 1 priority. We have nothing so far in that category, but still have time before Bruce breaks downs...but not too much time.

The backup PG got better by subtraction. My blind, three-legged, incontinent dog would be a better backup PG than NVE. Fuck that douche. The very fact that Pop cannot possibly give him any minutes (unless he comes out of retirement...perish the thought) is a big improvement. Spurs could definitely benefit from a stud at backup PG...but it's by no means a necessity.

Overal, Spurs get a "B" in my book for the offseason so far. Maybe I'm rose-tinted on Butler and Elson, but at least I'm excited.

[conqueso]

yeah, here's what I disagreed about in dalhoops post:


Going into the offseason, finding two centers was not what the team needed, those needs were created by the team.

They did need two centers, at least two centers who Pop had any confidence in playing at all in the playoffs. The Spurs didn't "create" the need for an athletic center who can run and catch entry passes; Rasho and Nazr's ineptitude created it.

[SequSpur]

After the signing of Elson, the Spurs currently have 14 players with guarenteed contracts. However, there can only be 12 players on the active roster. Which two will sit out?

One will definently be Eric Williams, but who will be the other?

Man, you're smart...

[furry_spurry]

But, FWD brings up the good points that Butler and Elson have bigger upsides, especially long term in Butler's case, than Nazr and Rasho.
Butler- yes. Elson- no way. He's older than both Rasho and Nazr.

[FromWayDowntown]

Butler- yes. Elson- no way. He's older than both Rasho and Nazr.

My point about upside has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with the ability to provide this team with flexibility that it lacked during the 2005-06 playoffs. The Spurs have a younger big body and a far more athletic long center than they had at this point last year.

Butler is clearly a project who the Spurs are taking a bargain-priced flier on in the hope that he might morph into a long-term solution in the middle. Elson, however, is clearly not intended to be a long-term solution at the center spot; he is intended to provide the athleticism that the Spurs sorely lacked there. Elson only needs to be marginally productive in a numbers sense to be useful. From the sound of things, he might actually bring some tenacity as much as anything else. At that, he brings all of that on the cheap.

Like I say, the upside at the center spot is mostly in terms of cost effectiveness. If Elson and Butler provide the Spurs with 8 and 8 most nights (Rasho and Nazr averaged 10.7 and 9.1 last season) and can add at least 20-25 minutes between them in playoff games, they will be more than adequate replacements for Rasho and Nazr.

In that sense, Elson and Butler would seem to have more upside as a tandem than Rasho and Nazr did.

[Bruno]

I think that Vaughn will be on the active list.
IL : Williams + Oberto/Butler.

[Mr. Body]

I'd see Bonner on the list before Oberto and definitely before Butler. Bonner doesn't fill a role on this team, so long as Horry is there.

[strangeweather]

I'd see Bonner on the list before Oberto and definitely before Butler. Bonner doesn't fill a role on this team, so long as Horry is there.
Horry looked really old last year, especially in the playoffs. I think he'll be an 11th or 12th man next year. I think Bonner will be the one who gets the backup PF minutes game in and game out.

Having said that, having a playoff-tested sharpshooter like Horry as your 12th man is a luxury beyond imagining (see also: Kerr, Steve).

[Mr. Body]

Horry looked really old last year, especially in the playoffs. I think he'll be an 11th or 12th man next year. I think Bonner will be the one who gets the backup PF minutes game in and game out.

Having said that, having a playoff-tested sharpshooter like Horry as your 12th man is a luxury beyond imagining (see also: Kerr, Steve).

I agree. Horry will spend time on the IR. Bonner will play early to get acclimated, test him out, see if he has trade value, etc.

[Dalhoop]

First of let me say that was a fine post FromWayDowntown, you made good points on the PG and SF issues but I think that comparing Diop's situation last year with Mavs is a little different then the two centers for the Spurs.

At the time the Mavs had a starting center in Dampier and were looking for a young "project" to develop behind him, the Spurs had NOBODY .... And for those of you that would bring up that Diop quickly beat out Dampier .... Its not exactly like that .... The Mavs found that Dampier more times then not picks up two quick fouls early in games when he should save them till late in the game (They think he is just "over excited" and gets fouls called), the answer to this is to have Diop start the game and then come back a few minutes into the game with Dampier (normally at the 8 minute time-out).... Dampier is our center and gets more minutes.

I think having Bonner on the floor with Duncan will be more effective in a smaller line-up situation then having either a Nazr or Rasho, but ... at least with the Mavs ... "Going small" does not mean pulling out center out of the game, it means going with a Terry - Harris backcourt, during the series with the Mavs we always had either Diop or Dampier on Duncan ... we never went "small"

Other team will try the small thing with the Spurs this year though and Bonner will help with that.

[TheAffricanFan]

I think that Horry will be on IR for 3/4 of the regular season and Oberto will be active to show if he deserves a place on our roster...

[FromWayDowntown]

At the time the Mavs had a starting center in Dampier and were looking for a young "project" to develop behind him, the Spurs had NOBODY .... And for those of you that would bring up that Diop quickly beat out Dampier .... Its not exactly like that .... The Mavs found that Dampier more times then not picks up two quick fouls early in games when he should save them till late in the game (They think he is just "over excited" and gets fouls called), the answer to this is to have Diop start the game and then come back a few minutes into the game with Dampier (normally at the 8 minute time-out).... Dampier is our center and gets more minutes.

I didn't try to compare the Spurs' situation to the Diop signing directly. I was simply pointing out that a team can sign a relatively-inexperienced center and still play at a high level. That's particularly true where the team signing the center doesn't rely in any significant fashion on the statistical contributions of that player. Here, my point is that the Butler/Elson signings won't make many waves and likely don't instill fear into any of the Spurs' chief rivals -- yet as Diop did for Dallas, we may find that one or both of those guys is useful enough to keep the Spurs atop the division and conference for another year.


I think having Bonner on the floor with Duncan will be more effective in a smaller line-up situation then having either a Nazr or Rasho, but ... at least with the Mavs ... "Going small" does not mean pulling out center out of the game, it means going with a Terry - Harris backcourt, during the series with the Mavs we always had either Diop or Dampier on Duncan ... we never went "small"

Sure. The point is, however, that the Spurs did -- other than Duncan, they didn't have a guy taller than 6'6" on the floor for most of the minutes they played against the Mavericks. I'm not trying to say that Bonner is the solution to all of the Spurs ills, but now the Spurs' roster has a number of guys who are taller than 6'6" who are athletic enough to give a few minutes here and there in a playoff series against great athletic lineups. Enough to give Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili a few minutes of rest at various stages in the game without the Spurs suffering a huge backslide. If any of those guys can play alongside the usual front four for stretches, the Spurs will again have good length on the floor and should be able to mitigate the rebounding disparities that killed them in the 2006 playoffs. And if a guy like Bonner can hit some 3's in playoff games -- or if he plays enough during the regular season to spell Horry and keep him fresher for a playoff run so that Horry can be the Robert Horry who played in the 2005 playoffs -- the Spurs are better.

[T Park]

Versatility.


That was the key word going into the offseason, and the SPurs got that, with Bonner, Williams, Elson and Butler.

[FromWayDowntown]

Versatility.


That was the key word going into the offseason, and the SPurs got that, with Bonner, Williams, Elson and Butler.

In theory. We won't know until next April or May if this group is more versatile or if its completely useless. I think there's plenty of reason for optimism and remain convinced that the 2005-06 Spurs were a hairsbreadth away from going back-to-back. IMO, they've adequately addressed need areas this summer and have created roster versatility for on-court situations while also creating roster flexibility that should allow them to make a deal to address another pressing need without completely remaking their roster. Two different sorts of versatility, both rather important to their success in the coming year.

Make no mistake, though: if Elson and Butler are flops and Bonner turns into a red-headed Hedo Turkoglu (without the rebounding), things could get bad pretty quickly. At worst, I still think the Spurs are a 2nd Round team -- Tim Duncan's presence alone pretty much assures them of that. At best, if some of these calculated gambles pay off and they can get a season of relative health from Duncan and Ginobili, they're going to be awfully difficult to beat.

[Obstructed_View]

I have a feeling Williams won't ever even come to San Antonio.

So I'm guessing that Barry/Williams get traded by the end of the summer.


Insert Brady Bunch joke here.

[Obstructed_View]

Versatility.


That was the key word going into the offseason, and the SPurs got that, with Bonner, Williams, Elson and Butler.
The two keywords that are more concerning to me are "trust" and "doghouse". I hope this roster has more of the former and none of the latter.

[picnroll]

Elson with greater defensive mobility and Butler who can punish Dirk in the low post have a better chance of staying on the floor against the Mavs than Nesterovic or Mohammed.

Spurs need to jettison Barry. He's been with them for two years and hasn't established himself, spotty at best. Time to move on.

[waly.mg]

The First Month Roster must to include the Players of the last Year

2005/2006 (8 Players)
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Horry
Oberto
Finley
Beno

News on Roster:
Bonner-Butler-Elson and 1 more

Inactives (1 Active):Vaughn-Williams

The First Choice of Pop always is if the player know the system

[AFBlue]

Eric Williams will NOT be on the IR.

Melzer wont make the team.

Oberto and whoever else.

Thats it.

Vaughn and Williams will be active.

Why would Eric Williams be a lock for the 12-man Roster? He didn't make the 12-man roster on one of the worst teams in the league, Toronto Raptors. We already have a defensive specialist with limited offensive potential. IMO, he's on the Inactive List.

The other IL victim will be Oberto or Vaughn, depending on how much confidence Pop has in Beno.

[AFBlue]

The First Month Roster must to include the Players of the last Year

2005/2006 (8 Players)
Duncan
Bowen
Manu
Tim
Horry
Oberto
Finley
Beno

News on Roster:
Bonner-Butler-Elson and 1 more

Inactives (1 Active):Vaughn-Williams

The First Choice of Pop always is if the player know the system


Sorry, but you forgot Brent Barry and you said "Tim" when I think you meant "Tony". Both are definite locks for the 12-man rotation, leaving one more of the players listed out of the loop. Which one will it be?

[Leetonidas]

To me, this is what the roster, without additions and only subtractions, will look like next year:

Starting:

SF - Bruce Bowen
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Francisco Elson (I believe eventually Butler will take this spot)
SG - Manu Ginobili
PG - Tony Parker

Bench:

1. Michael Finley (SF-SG)
2. Jackie Butler (C)
3. Matt Bonner (PF)
4. Beno Udrih (PG)
5. Fabricio Oberto (PF-C)
6. Robert Horry
7. Jaque Vaughn
8. Rich Melzer

Now, I realize that that leaves off Brent Barry and Eric Williams. Like Kori said, Williams and Barry will most likely be traded before training camp starts. To who? I don't know. Maybe Pop wants to go after Darius Miles, who knows. I can't tell you what the Spurs will do with Barry and Williams, but I have a feeling they'll be traded.

Now, that would leave the Spurs with new players, not that I know who they would be.

If this scenario did happen, the Spurs might be inclined to play Melzer and try to develop him. He is a long SF if I remember correctly. Duncan will move to center when Horry or Bonner are in the game. I think this season, Popovich will put his trust in Beno and Beno will produce fine. Beno was a pretty damn backup in his rookie year minus the playoffs. It hurt his development being played behind Van Exel last year.

The IR list to me will consist of:

Jaque Vaughn
Fabricio Oberto
(And if the Spurs don't make anymore moves...) Melzer or Williams

[Ocotillo]

Isn't Oberto kind of expensive to be sitting on IR. If he ends up on IR, that is a clear admission his signing was a mistake.

[bigdog]

I have no clue why the FO signed Oberto to such a big contract anyways....I say that E-Will makes the 12 man roster, because obviously RC thinks he can produce, he has even said it publically. Williams didnt make the 12 man roster in Toronto because he had a very bad relationship with coach Sam Mitchell and a player(forgot who it was), so he wanted to be traded during the season so he can get more minutes.