What about the long 3? [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

SenorSpur

07-21-2006, 04:22 AM

One of the Spurs' offseason priorities has been and was to identify and acquire a long, athletic, wing player. A "Derrick Mckey-type player" of similar height and length, as Pop put it.

As we all saw in the Dallas series, Bowen simply CANNOT guard everyone. He very much needs additional perimeter help. The Spurs are fortunate that he's not yet worn down. Plus at his age, he also cannot continue playing the big minutes he plays. Especially next season when he'll be coming off a grueling schedule with the World Championship trials.

As it stands, this team is clearly NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Another young, athletic, wing player is just what they've needed the past two or three seasons., but they have yet to fill the void.

Now that they "think" they've filled their void at center, what happens now? How do the Spurs achieve this objective? Is acquiring such a player even a priority with the FO?

Dre_7

07-21-2006, 04:29 AM

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?

SenorSpur

07-21-2006, 04:31 AM

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?

IMO, they're not ready to start the season with this "as is" roster. It bothers me that Bowen still does not have an adequate backup.

J.T.

07-21-2006, 04:31 AM

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?

Ignore the kool aid drinking, cliff diving populace. Our team will be fine.

SenorSpur

07-21-2006, 04:34 AM

Ignore the kool aid drinking, cliff diving populace. Our team will be fine.

FYI, it was Pop who mentioned on Ticket760 just after the season, of his desire to acquire such a player.

Say what you want, but it's a valid concern. If you can't see it, then perhaps you've been drinking something stronger than Kool-Aid.

T Park

07-21-2006, 04:36 AM

Erik Williams?

6'7 LONG armed.

Can score....

A good defensive player....

J.T.

07-21-2006, 04:39 AM

Say what you want, but it's a valid concern. If you can't see it, then perhaps you've been drinking something stronger than Kool-Aid.

I know Pop has been looking for a long 3 but just because we don't have one right this F'ing second doesn't suddenly knock the Spurs out of the top elite teams in the NBA. I am just amazed because so many people think the team is doomed, and I'm more amazed at all the people that think we need to rebuild to beat the Dallas Mavericks as if they're the only team we'll ever play again.

Those are concerns that need to be addressed but that doesn't mean the Spurs will fall out of contention because there isn't a long 3. The Spurs have a lot of great players that can fill the gap until we sign a long 3, but one player isn't going to make or break the team.

timvp

07-21-2006, 04:40 AM

Sadly enough, it sounds like Richard Melzer is their answer to a long three.

Kori Ellis

07-21-2006, 04:40 AM

I think they'll use some stopgap 3's this season and have plans for Sanikidze for the future.

(Just guessing)

Nbadan

07-21-2006, 04:54 AM

Vaghn is no Speedy and unfortunately, Finley only resembles Stephen Jackson on D. Butler and Elson aren't even up to Nazr's low-inspirational level and Horry has lost a step or two. This team isn't even as good as the 01 team.

TDMVPDPOY

07-21-2006, 05:01 AM

im long, 1inch hangin from the ground

T Park

07-21-2006, 05:07 AM

Finley only resembles Stephen Jackson on D.
So his performance in the playoffs wasn't very good?

Guess not.......

Butler and Elson aren't even up to Nazr's low-inspirational level

puhlease....

sabar

07-21-2006, 05:11 AM

Butler > Butterfingers
Finley did good in the playoffs, but another year adds more wear and tear, plus playoff performance is usually a step above the regular season.

Nbadan

07-21-2006, 05:12 AM

So his performance in the playoffs wasn't very good?

Guess not.......

Not that it wasn't very good, just that it wasn't enough, and can Finley burn that way for another 82 games and a whole second season?

callo1

07-21-2006, 08:25 AM

Melzer will probably make the team.

DFW Spurs

07-21-2006, 08:33 AM

The Spurs will just dial-up 1-800-Smal-Fwd. Simple as that.

The reality is we are who we are. The Spurs are going to battle with what they have. As long as Tony, Manu, and Tim are on the team we'll be in the hunt.

spurster

07-21-2006, 08:39 AM

The Spurs need for a long 3 is really when other teams are playing small ball, i.e., their long 3 is really a skinny 4. In this situation, the Spurs have a variety of players to try: Horry (who will hopefully recover from whatever was slowing him down), Bonner, and Williams. I think the Spurs would like to lean (will have to depend) on Horry in the playoffs, so others will get more minutes during the regular season.

ShoogarBear

07-21-2006, 08:41 AM

READY FOR PRIME TIME
http://www.richardbelzer.com/belzer.jpg

Taking it to the Hole

07-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Sounds like some Spurs fans are greedy as hell and not content with anything. We addressed two of our three needs by signing another point guard and two RESTRICTED free agents at center. Damn, what does it take to make some of you happy. :madrun So we don't have a long 3? Boo-Hoo. I'm sure you'll be crying buckets when the Spurs make the playoffs again and compete for another title w/o the all-powerful "long 3".

picnroll

07-21-2006, 08:46 AM

Erik Williams?

6'7 LONG armed.

Can score....

A good defensive player....
Spurs have said zip, nada, nothing about Williams. When is the last time the Spurs brought a player in where they've said zilch about him or their mouthpiece Ludden has said zilch about him and that guy has been in their plans?

The long three is unsolved. Backup PG is on fumes. Hopefully the Spurs have another move in them.

genghisrex

07-21-2006, 08:51 AM

The off season's not over.

raspsa

07-21-2006, 09:15 AM

Melzer will probably make the team.

With a 7ft.2-inch wingspan, he can probably reach as high as Duncan.. that's pretty long. Did you get to see the picture of Elton Brand and Chris Kaman standing side by side with their arms raised? Identical reaches.

Mr. Body

07-21-2006, 09:25 AM

I'm interested in seeing what magic the Spurs can pull. The E-Williams non-appearance is fishy, but don't think they have anything planned. Best we can do, I suspect, is horn in on someone else's bigger trade in some way.

strangeweather

07-21-2006, 10:57 AM

The E-Williams non-appearance is fishy, but don't think they have anything planned.
They're trades -- nothing's really planned until you have a final agreement. The point is that they have a number of parts and pieces that could be shipped out for the right deal.

I'm sure the front office has some ideas about guys who might be available, but you never know whether both sides will be able to meet in the middle or not.

In any case, I think the roster will probably work as constituted, and we have until February to try to trade up.

Mr. Body

07-21-2006, 11:05 AM

They're trades -- nothing's really planned until you have a final agreement. The point is that they have a number of parts and pieces that could be shipped out for the right deal.

I'm sure the front office has some ideas about guys who might be available, but you never know whether both sides will be able to meet in the middle or not.

In any case, I think the roster will probably work as constituted, and we have until February to try to trade up.

The problem is locating any young SF out there. They're very hard to get. From what I see, there are the Darius Mileses (big No-No).

Then there are the Pietruses, who are cheap, young, athletic, good defenders, and can shoot reasonably well... but are being kept to make other, long-term expensive contracts more attractive. It'd be necessary to eat Troy Murphy's contract to get Pietrus. I know some here like Murphy a lot, but it's a bad idea.

The only teams who need expiring contracts are exactly like us - they have mature rosters, they don't have anything to trade and just want to drop down a few units of salary next year. That is, San Antonio seems like the end-destination for a guy like Williams. The teams with budding SFs are young in general and aren't facing luxury cap problems. Golden State needs to keep their Biedrins and Pietrus guys as sweeteners for salary dumps.

I just don't see anything eminent. Maybe something like Jumaine Jones for Williams' contract, but I'd rather hang on to Williams at that point.

I just don't see much.

Bruno

07-21-2006, 11:12 AM

Beer is Good

07-21-2006, 11:16 AM

THere isn't much out there this year. A weak draft and a relatively shallow pool of free agents made this off season not very lucrative. The Spurs are more than likely going to have to be patient and wait to see what the season brings. More than likely they can fill a void through trade once teams fall into place about midway through the season and some teams look to trade to move up (i.e. Sacramento last year). If somebody needs a shooter, or something else the Spurs can expend with we may get a nice player to fill a need. Not a Superstar, but a good, serviceable player.

Beer is Good

07-21-2006, 11:18 AM

As it stands, this team is clearly NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Prime Time doesn't start until April. We have time. Be patient.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 11:32 AM

Looks like it will be Melzer.

Williams is not the long 3 we are looking for, his ass would get burned trying to guard hybrid PF's like Dirk.

Sanikidze is the future. He is long enough, quick enough on his feet, he only needs to add the weight, but the Spurs already know what they have in him. He was here for such a long time....

Mr. Body

07-21-2006, 11:34 AM

Sanikidze isn't the future until another 3-4 years pass. The guy is even less ready than Mahinmi.

Melzer can't expected to be the answer. I'm sure a trade will happen, if it happens mid-season or now.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 11:43 AM

Actually, don't be surprised if Sanikidze comes along with Ian.

I believe he is also on a 1 year deal with his pro club in Europe....something I would take as in indication that the Spurs have told him they don't want anything signed long term....in hopes he can come soon, if need be.

Of course Melzer is not the answer. What he is, is an insurance policy.

Bruce Bowen is the answer on the defensive side. He did a great job on Dirk, and should still have enough left in the tank for at least two more seasons. The man is dedicated to taking care of his body, and has not suffered any injuries....he's this teams iron man.

On the offensive side, the long 3 could possibly be Bonner. He's long enough to create matchup problems with his size and shooting....especially if he get's hot. It enables the floor to be spread, which is a nightmare for defenders down low against Tim and of course the slashers in Manu and Tony would have a field day.

Extra Stout

07-21-2006, 11:48 AM

The Spurs don't need a stud at the 3, but they need somehow who can do a decent job defensively on Josh Howard, Dirk, and Boris Diaw.

Obviously, Eric Williams is not that guy. Bonner isn't either. I don't know if they can solve the problem this offseason. They may just have to take their lumps in those matchups against Dallas/Phoenix in the playoffs and try to outscore them.

Mr. Body

07-21-2006, 11:49 AM

I agree that we'll see Sanikidze sooner rather than later, probably with Ian, when the old vets vacate the bench. I just don't think he'll be productive until he's 22 or so, for size and strength reasons.

We're just in a tight spot right now. We need to start grooming a Bowen replacement now, but there's no help apparent on the near horizon. I don't think Bonner will be of much help here. He can't guard opposing 3s (much less 2s, like Bowen). He's more of a specialty player, a high-energy guy who happens to shoot very well.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 11:54 AM

I agree on the Bonner issue. I know he has no D. He can cause matchup problems on the offensive side though. I feel he will be a player similar to Ferry when he was here. Although, a tad bit better because we got Ferry on his last legs. Better defensively and probably a better shooter because we have those penetrating guards and of course an even better Tim Duncan.

I know the Spurs know their situation with the long 3. I don't believe they are not doing anything about it. Maybe they have their eye's set on someone they already have....Sanikidze.....he must already be on a weight program, he must have an idea of the way they practice/playbook, and of course the schemes.

But, you never know....

T Park

07-21-2006, 11:55 AM

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 12:09 PM

You're right....all Williams can do is defend.

However, I disagree with you that he is a VERY good defender. He is above average at best.

He defends players like Lamar Odom good because Odom does not have a deadly perimeter game, is not extremely quick for a player his size, and he can bang down low with his post game.

However, with players like Dirk, Diaw, etc....these hybrid PF's.....Williams will just get burned. He is not quick with his feet.....it could be because he once tore his ACL....or just lack of quickness with the feet.

The most important thing on being a perimeter defender (which we need....after Bruce) is being able to be quick enough to come off those screens or make sure to handle those players who are quick enough to create their own shots....Eric Williams is not that.

T Park

07-21-2006, 12:11 PM

However, with players like Dirk, Diaw, etc....these hybrid PF's

You think those guys are quicker than Lamar Odom?

Length.

Ability to keep up.

Those are things he can do.

Quit writing this guy off people.

strangeweather

07-21-2006, 12:13 PM

Id like for people to explain more why they think Erik Williams is not considered.

Use more than, "the spurs haven't talked about him".

Long 3, who guards VERY well, and can keep up with guards, and guards guys like Lamar Odom VERY well.
He's old and he looked done in Toronto. It could be that it was just a bad fit in Toronto, or it could be that he's really done.

Since I don't think any of us really knows for sure, it seems dicey to count on him for much. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised if he shows something.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 12:20 PM

You think those guys are quicker than Lamar Odom?

Length.

Ability to keep up.

Those are things he can do.

It's obvious that Diaw and Dirk are quicker than Lamar.

Length and ability to keep up? Yes, he can do that against players like Lamar Odom who can shoot a jump shot or bang down low with post moves. He can attempt to defend those players....

Like I said, he would get burned trying to guard perimeter players....he is not quick enough to come off screens, defend guys who can create their own shot, or just quick on thier feet........he does not have that athleticism.

It's not riding him off, it's just stating the truth.

waly.mg

07-21-2006, 02:10 PM

Long 3, Long Wingspan, Big Hands

What about Herrmann, who don´t sign yet with the Bobcats

6´8", 225 Pounds, 80% FT, 43% 3FG and 59% 2FG

Or 3 argentineans are too much?

ChumpDumper

07-21-2006, 02:16 PM

Did someone just say Dirk is quicker than Odom?

T Park

07-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Shhh, Bluto is rolling.

T Park

07-21-2006, 02:20 PM

Also,

look up Erik Williams stats with the Nets before the trade to Toronto.

Then tell me how horrible he is.

Hes not done, he got ZERO burn up in Toronto, and didn't get along AT ALL with Sam Mitchell.

That losing thing doesn't agree with him either I bet.

The atmosphere around the Spurs will be alot better and will help out.

picnroll

07-21-2006, 02:24 PM

Id like for people to explain more why they think Erik Williams is not considered.

Use more than, "the spurs haven't talked about him".

Long 3, who guards VERY well, and can keep up with guards, and guards guys like Lamar Odom VERY well.
Old. Beat up. Way past his prime. Any further question just watch tapes of Van Exel from last year and you'll get the picture.

T Park

07-21-2006, 02:26 PM

:lol

I gaurantee you.

Van Exel ran over picnroll's dog.

Thats the only reason a person who doesn't know personally another guy, witht hat much hatred.

Grow up.

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-21-2006, 02:28 PM

Can't Bonner play 3?

ChumpDumper

07-21-2006, 02:31 PM

I have a question -- how many minutes do you think a long SF is going to get this season with four existing swingmen and twenty power forwards?

We have to thin the herd before any of the really desirable long SF free agents even consider us. More than likely we'll have to get one in trade.

Otherwise we're looking at spot minutes for Eric Williams and/or Detective Munch.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 02:52 PM

Did someone just say Dirk is quicker than Odom?

Yeah, Dirk in my opinion is quicker than Odom on the perimeter. He can run the floor and shoot the three precisely with ease. He can dribble out with ease and release it quickly with ease. He can pump fake it, and dribble it into the lane with ease.

If you happen to disagree thats fine. Williams is still not quick enough to guard him, or even contest a shot, unless he's down on the low block...then maybe he would have a chance...other than that, he would get torched.

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 02:55 PM

I have a question -- how many minutes do you think a long SF is going to get this season with four existing swingmen and twenty power forwards?

Not many. Thats why I said were still fine with Bowen for another two years. The man is well conditioned, is a top perimeter defender, and he knows his role probably better than any other Spur with the exception of Duncan.

I agree though...if we swing a trade....for Barry, then Finley can switch to the SG behind Manu, and then that long SF....if it were to happen could play a decent amount of minutes behind Bruce, but that scenario is a long shot.

Beer is Good

07-21-2006, 02:59 PM

Yeah, Dirk in my opinion is quicker than Odom on the perimeter. He can run the floor and shoot the three precisely with ease. He can dribble out with ease and release it quickly with ease. He can pump fake it, and dribble it into the lane with ease.

If you happen to disagree thats fine. Williams is still not quick enough to guard him, or even contest a shot, unless he's down on the low block...then maybe he would have a chance...other than that, he would get torched.

Dirk is quicker than Rasho/Nazr, but not even CLOSE to Odom in that regard. Dirk is quick for a 7' guy, but not quick next to guys around 6'7" with athletic ability like Odom. I have no idea what Williams will bring, but if he can stay in front on Odom he can definitely stay in front of Dirk. But can he do either? I don't know.

T Park

07-21-2006, 03:03 PM

but if he can stay in front on Odom he can definitely stay in front of Dirk

Watching the 81 point game of Kobe.

Williams stayed in front of , and played fantastic defense on Lamar Odom.

Dirk is NOT faster than Odom, are you kidding me......

El_Mago

07-21-2006, 03:06 PM

If being nearly 7'1, great handles, amazing balance, speed, shoot the rock like there's no tomorrow, and can create his own shot, is not having atheltic mobility....I wouldn't know what is.

I'm not saying that Odom is not quick....he's quick within that 18ft foot range, can create his own shot as well, and quick on the post; however, I don't believe he's as quick as Dirk on that perimeter nor as skilled.....and thats what we need....a perimeter defender to give Bowen some relief, and Williams is not that.

T-Park had mentioned that Williams did a great job on Odom, but our main concern is Dirk, and Dirk is in another class than Odom. Williams doing a good job on Odom is good and all when we play the Lakers, but won't cut it when we play the Mavs in a playoff series, and thats what is going to matter.

Beer is Good

07-21-2006, 03:11 PM

T Park

07-21-2006, 03:18 PM

Williams doing a good job on Odom is good and all when we play the Lakers, but won't cut it when we play the Mavs in a playoff series, and thats what is going to matter.

Seeing as Dirk doesn't move as quick as Odom laterally, wich is important in perimiter D, than uh, he should be ok.

The Heat put James Posey on him, and WIlliams is that type.

strangeweather

07-21-2006, 04:38 PM

Also,

look up Erik Williams stats with the Nets before the trade to Toronto.

Then tell me how horrible he is.
I have. He could play in Jersey. But that was a season and a half ago, and the guy just turned 34. When you haven't shown what you can do for a year and a half at that age, there have to be a whole lot of question marks.

I didn't say I was sure the guy can't play -- I chose my words very carefully. The point is that we absolutely can't afford to assume that the guy can play, because he hasn't played at a high level over a sustained period since he went to Toronto.

td4mvp21

07-21-2006, 04:54 PM

We should go for Trevor Ariza, if Isaiah was stupid enough to give us Butler lets milk him for all he's worth!

ChumpDumper

07-21-2006, 04:57 PM

Zeke traded Ariza to Orlando last season.

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-21-2006, 04:59 PM

We should go for Trevor Ariza, if Isaiah was stupid enough to give us Butler lets milk him for all he's worth!
Wasn't he traded to the Magic in the Francis deal?

td4mvp21

07-21-2006, 09:39 PM

AH he was? Woops. How stupid is the Magic's GM? :spin

cherylsteele

07-21-2006, 09:55 PM

NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.
What do you think this is....SNL?

JUUOT

07-21-2006, 10:13 PM

Some names of long 3 that are good fit and can be available :
Joey Graham
Qyntel Woods
Viktor Khryapa
Jumaine Jones
Trevor Ariza
Jared Jeffries
Hakim Warrick
Justin Reed
Devean George
Jumaine Jones
Sergey monya

i guess that now we know who bruno is rooting for lol
personally i think we could have a big surprise and see the spurs go after an athletic SG by trading barry instead of SF and keep williams as a stopgap solution.