State of the Spurs - Fox

[MajorMike]

Taken from "10 things we learned this week in the NBA"

6. Item: With the signing of big men Jackie Butler and Francisco Elson, restricted free agents from the Knicks and Nuggets respectively whose offer sheets were not matched, the San Antonio Spurs now have completed the transformation of their frontcourt.

What this really means: Just like how so many went bananas over the failure of the Pistons to return to the NBA finals, the death of the Spurs was greatly overestimated. Unloading Rasho Nesterovic for Matt Bonner and Eric Williams, plus letting Mohammed go, gives the Spurs much more depth and versatility up front than what they had around Tim Duncan last season.

Besides, with Bruce Bowen's defensive proficiency on the wing — plus the backcourt of Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Michael Finley, Beno Udrih, Brent Barry and newly-signed point guard Jacque Vaughn — they have the deepest roster in the NBA. They can go very big or very small — with championship experience on the floor, the bench and the coaching staff. The only real questions would be the stamina of Parker and Ginobili.

[George Gervin's Afro]

hey mike i guess you haven't heard the mavs are younger and deeper this year..

[TDMVPDPOY]

In Matt Bonner We Trust

[Mr. Body]

"Deepest roster in the NBA"... what a crock of shit.

[furry_spurry]

Yeah- the Spurs have more depth in their big men because now they have 5 back-ups-- problem, they only have one starter- Tim. :lol

[Solid D]

Depth carries weight but lest we forget...

The Miami Heat carry "The Larry"

[ca®lo]

false hope anyone?

[Gino20]

Finley, Beno, Barry, Bonner, Horry are not bad backups if you ask me. I still believe we are one of the deepest teams in the league. Dallas is not much better if you ask me. I agree.

[LEONARD]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :drunk

[SpursChampsIII]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :drunk

Not worried about the Mavs...it's a simple equation:

Mavs + championships = 0

Two zeros added together equals one big zero.

[SpursChampsIII]

The Spurs will be a better team next year.

[SpursChampsIII]

Yeah- the Spurs have more depth in their big men because now they have 5 back-ups-- problem, they only have one starter- Tim. :lol

Good thing the Raptors took Rasho as their STARTER, or we might have 6 backups :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Lets compare.


Spurs:

Parker
Manu
Bowen
Duncan
Elson

Barry
Bonner
Butler
Finley
Horry
Oberto
Melvin
Beno
Vaughn
Eric W.


Dallas:

Harris
Terry
Howard
Dirk
Diop

Maurice Ager (who?)
Greg Buckner
Croshere
Dampier
Mbenga
Anthony-Johnson
Pavel Podkolzin
Stackhouse



++++

Our best and there best is a wash.

But when you get to the bench, and deeper parts of it. I don't think Ager, Croshere, Pavel, Mbenga match up with our bottom 4 guys...

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavs improved their roster. So did the Spurs. If the Spurs played the Mavs without their centers and without Beno again the Mavs might have a chance to win in seven games. I'm not worried.

[Buddy Holly]

The Spurs were one play here and there from returning to the finals and not choking against a bad Miami team.

Just like the Kings had their window and failed the Mavs had theirs and failed.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs were one play here and there from returning to the finals and not choking against a bad Miami team.

Just like the Kings had their window and failed the Mavs had theirs and failed.

Why do you think the Mavs window closed? They didn't lose any players. They aren't old.

[Obstructed_View]

Once again, Pop is the only one that can get the Mavericks over the hump against the Spurs.

[tmtcsc]

Fuck the Mavs. They had a shot and blew it. I guess they are thinking that getting back to the finals will be an annual thing. Right...........No need to worry about the Spurs. They showed us who the best in the west is....Right.......Keep drinking the Kool Aid, Mavs fans.

[Mavs_man_41]

Not worried about the Mavs...it's a simple equation:

Mavs + championships = 0

Two zeros added together equals one big zero.

The mavs past number of championships has nothing to do with whether or not they will win it this year, dumbass.

[Mavs_man_41]

Fuck the Mavs. They had a shot and blew it. I guess they are thinking that getting back to the finals will be an annual thing. Right...........No need to worry about the Spurs. They showed us who the best in the west is....Right.......Keep drinking the Kool Aid, Mavs fans.

Lmao the mavs are the best in the west, they are the western conference champions. Not only that but the mavs have gotten alot deeper this past offseason while the spurs have gotten older. I think its the spurs fans who need to keep drinking the kool aid.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

The mavs past number of championships has nothing to do with whether or not they will win it this year, dumbass.
I don't know about that. It may not be a huge factor, but championship experience counts for something in this league.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Lmao the mavs are the best in the west, they are the western conference champions. Not only that but the mavs have gotten alot deeper this past offseason while the spurs have gotten older. I think its the spurs fans who need to keep drinking the kool aid.


haven't the mavs gotten older also? if anything they are all a year older?
If Butler is 21 and Bonner 25.. isn't that getting younger? Your silly little repetetive argument is getting old.... nothing about skill or players..age?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

C
Butler<Dampier
Elson<Diop
Oberto>Podkolzin
PF
Tim>Dirk
Horry>Croshere
Bonner>Mbenga
SF
Bowen>Howard
Finley>Stackhouse
Williams<Buckner
SG
Manu>Terry
Barry<Ager
PG
Tony>Harris
Beno<Johnson
Vaughn

That says it all.

Spurs win by 3 people. So we are better. Case closed.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The mavs past number of championships has nothing to do with whether or not they will win it this year, dumbass.


well then the mavs winning last year means they are the best in the west this year? according to you now the spurs experience means nothing..so then the mavs experience or pst season success means nothing... do you realize your a hypocrite?...you my friend ain't to bright.. :lol

[AFBlue]

Being the "deepest" team, which we are NOT by the way, is extremely overrated. This is still a star-driven league where 20% of your players get 80% of your points and minutes. Whether it's a combo of Tim/Tony/Manu, Dirk/Terry/Howard, or Wade/O'Neal you're primary scoring options will spend the most time on the floor and dominate the ball.

After that, the focus shifts to "WHO" gets the ball secondarily, not "HOW MANY". You can have a smaller group of more talented reserves, go with an 8-man rotation and beat a team with a 10-man rotation of lesser total talent. I'm sure Maurice Ager is a better talent than Fabricio Oberto, but if they both avg 2 minutes a game, it really doesn't matter does it?

The only thing being "deep" gives you is more options to trot out on the court, but it doesn't necessarily make you better.

I'd take 20 minutes from Michael Finley over the combined 20 minutes that Maurice Ager, Greg Buckner, and Anthony Johnson will get any day.

So I'm willing to concede the "deepest" team to the Mavericks, Bulls, or whoever else anyone wants to tout and say that we still have the components to be the best team.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Being the "deepest" team, which we are NOT by the way, is extremely overrated. This is still a star-driven league where 20% of your players get 80% of your points and minutes. Whether it's a combo of Tim/Tony/Manu, Dirk/Terry/Howard, or Wade/O'Neal you're primary scoring options will spend the most time on the floor and dominate the ball.

After that, the focus shifts to "WHO" gets the ball secondarily, not "HOW MANY". You can have a smaller group of more talented reserves, go with an 8-man rotation and beat a team with a 10-man rotation of lesser total talent. I'm sure Maurice Ager is a better talent than Fabricio Oberto, but if they both avg 2 minutes a game, it really doesn't matter does it?

The only thing being "deep" gives you is more options to trot out on the court, but it doesn't necessarily make you better.

I'd take 20 minutes from Michael Finley over the combined 20 minutes that Maurice Ager, Greg Buckner, and Anthony Johnson will get any day.

So I'm willing to concede the "deepest" team to the Mavericks, Bulls, or whoever else anyone wants to tout and say that we still have the components to be the best team.
So we didn't need Horry just because we had our 3 in the 05 championship? Neither did the Lakers during their 3-year run? The Heat didn't need Alonzo and Glove? Hell, didn't the Bulls need Kukoc and Rodman? Paxson? If you want to win a championship, you NEED A DEEP BENCH.

[confined]

diop/dampier/ mbenga > elson/butler/oberto
dirk/croshere = duncan/bonner/horry
howard/stackhouse/george > bowen/fin/williams
terry/buckner/ager > manu/barry
harris/AJ < parker/vaughn/beno

someone said that the spurs hold the advantage at the 3... :rolleyes

no way...howard owns bowen....bowen my be the better defender but howard is the better scorer and rebounder

stack is a better scorer than finley on top of that

[ChumpDumper]

Yes!

The July internets matchup champions!

[AFBlue]

So we didn't need Horry just because we had our 3 in the 05 championship? Neither did the Lakers during their 3-year run? The Heat didn't need Alonzo and Glove? Hell, didn't the Bulls need Kukoc and Rodman? Paxson? If you want to win a championship, you NEED A DEEP BENCH.

Horry is a noted playoff performer and gave the spurs consistent minutes as a member of their REGULAR rotation. Gary Peyton was the first guard off the bench all year, Alonzo the first big off the bench. Same with the Bulls. You are naming players that were consistent contributors....name me 10 players on any championship team that gave consistent minutes throughout the season and playoffs. It just doesn't happen.

I'm not saying that people other than your superstars can't be contributors, all I'm saying is that superstars + regular contributors doesn't usually equal 10 players, let alone 12 or 15. The only exception I can think of is the Memphis Grizzlies regularly employing a 10 man rotation...and look where it's gotten them.

So I guess you should fully read posts, or you'll continue to misinterpret and make assanine remarks.

[leemajors]

bowen owns howard, he much less effective when being guarded by him. trouble is, if bowen guards dirk, howard goes off. if bowen guards howard, dirk goes off. that was our problem, the rest was a wash.

[AFBlue]

diop/dampier/ mbenga > elson/butler/oberto
dirk/croshere = duncan/bonner/horry
howard/stackhouse/george > bowen/fin/williams
terry/buckner/ager > manu/barry
harris/AJ < parker/vaughn/beno

someone said that the spurs hold the advantage at the 3... :rolleyes

no way...howard owns bowen....bowen my be the better defender but howard is the better scorer and rebounder

stack is a better scorer than finley on top of that

You just listed 13 players on the Mavs side...since when do 13 players even dress for a game, let alone set foot on the court...put the Mavs best 8 against the Spurs best 8 and that'll be a true test of who holds the advantage.

[Mr. Body]

terry/buckner/ager > manu/barry


That's ridiculous.

[AFBlue]

That's ridiculous.

Yeah I was too busy making the point they had too many players listed that I missed that one... A healthy Manu v. Terry is a good discussion, but how you compare Brent Barry to either Buckner (defensive spec) or Ager (green rookie) is beyond me.

I'll also contend that Tim/Big Shot is better than Dirk/Croshere because Duncan affects the game defensively as much or more than he does offensively...Dirk has yet to be a significant defensive presence

[furry_spurry]

Good thing the Raptors took Rasho as their STARTER, or we might have 6 backups.
Rasho- 482 NBA starts- PJ even told reporters after the trade that Rasho is
an NBA starting center.

As for depth, it mostly helps you get through the REGULAR season and handle injuries to players.

[AFBlue]

As for depth, it mostly helps you get through the REGULAR season and handle injuries to players.


Which is why I'm glad we have the expiring contract of eric williams (trade bait to cap-hungry teams)....someone goes down, we have the assets to make up for their injury.

Let's just hope it's not Tim, Tony or Manu...because I doubt we have the assets to make up for their long-term loss.

[2centsworth]

Not worried about the Mavs...it's a simple equation:

Mavs + championships = 0

Two zeros added together equals one big zero.
Mavs have one championship in their eyes. They beat the Spurs in '06. I don't think how much you realize how important that was for them.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

I believe the Spurs did what was neccessary to compete with other teams which was to get quicker and more versatile centers. I don't think the Spurs have to go small ball with a guy like Elson because he's so athletic where as Nazr and Rasho couldn't get on the floor against Dallas. Now that might have been a bad move by Pop but that's what he deemed neccessary and y'all still almost got back to the finals. Plus remember everybody looks better along side of TD. ;)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

diop/dampier/ mbenga > elson/butler/oberto
dirk/croshere = duncan/bonner/horry
howard/stackhouse/george > bowen/fin/williams
terry/buckner/ager > manu/barry
harris/AJ < parker/vaughn/beno

someone said that the spurs hold the advantage at the 3... :rolleyes

no way...howard owns bowen....bowen my be the better defender but howard is the better scorer and rebounder

stack is a better scorer than finley on top of that
No way Howard can score while Bowen is on him. He'll have to call an timeout that's not even there so he can get off him. Duncan is better than Dirk and Croshere is just like Bonner and then we also have Robert Horry. The small forwards should be equal because Fin and Stack are equal and George is better than Williams.And the shooting guard position just slightly edges the Mavericks just because of the Ager signing. I don't what you are trying to pull but it ain't gonna work. This year Duncan will be able to guard Dirk better because last year he said he was in the best shape of his career. Now that he hasn't lost his form and that his ankle will be healthy he will be faster with more stamina.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Lots of Spurs fan igorance in this thread. What's new?

Face it folks, we're still looking up at the Mavs, and barring another trade between now and next February we'll still be looking up at them in the standings and watching them in the Finals while Tim and Tony are working on their golf games next June.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

AHF has become the biggest pessimist in the forum (not counting sequofthecorn). Can't we just be happy that our center position is looking better? No way a natural scoring 20 year old center is a downgrade from Frankenstein and Iron Hands. All we need is to position ourselves for that mid season trade. And I still have not written off Eric Williams.

[violentkitten]

diop/dampier/ mbenga > elson/butler/oberto
dirk/croshere = duncan/bonner/horry
howard/stackhouse/george > bowen/fin/williams
terry/buckner/ager > manu/barry
harris/AJ < parker/vaughn/beno

someone said that the spurs hold the advantage at the 3... :rolleyes

no way...howard owns bowen....bowen my be the better defender but howard is the better scorer and rebounder

stack is a better scorer than finley on top of that

>>=><><<>>=

[confined]

Lots of Spurs fan igorance in this thread. What's new?

Face it folks, we're still looking up at the Mavs, and barring another trade between now and next February we'll still be looking up at them in the standings and watching them in the Finals while Tim and Tony are working on their golf games next June.


there is a God!

[violentkitten]

there is a God!

<><<========

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

AHF has become the biggest pessimist in the forum (not counting sequofthecorn). Can't we just be happy that our center position is looking better? No way a natural scoring 20 year old center is a downgrade from Frankenstein and Iron Hands. All we need is to position ourselves for that mid season trade. And I still have not written off Eric Williams.
Don't forget shaggy17!

[z0sa]

aggie hoopsfan sounds on the verge of suicide

[Kori Ellis]

aggie hoopsfan sounds on the verge of suicide

It's okay. He's permanently this way. Even when the Spurs were winning titles, he was bitching all the way.

If he starts being satisfied, then we probably need to do an intervention.

[SpursChampsIII]

The mavs past number of championships has nothing to do with whether or not they will win it this year, dumbass.

The fact that they can't get it done DOES have some bearing if they go into next season with pretty much the same team, f'n a$$clown.

[SpursChampsIII]

Mavs have one championship in their eyes. They beat the Spurs in '06. I don't think how much you realize how important that was for them.

Looking through their eyes, they see a big fkn ZERO. They had a chance and they pi$$ed it away. When they meet again, you will see a hungry Spurs team that will not let the Mavs win a series.

[2centsworth]

Aggie Hoopsfan is an Aggie. It's as simple as that.

[2centsworth]

Looking through their eyes, they see a big fkn ZERO. They had a chance and they pi$$ed it away. When they meet again, you will see a hungry Spurs team that will not let the Mavs win a series.
you're thinking logically. Mavs beating the Spurs is like Texas Tech beating UT, or the Clippers beating the Lakers, or the Eagles beating the Cowboys. Those wins are like championships to those teams.

[SpursChampsIII]

Lmao the mavs are the best in the west, they are the western conference champions. Not only that but the mavs have gotten alot deeper this past offseason while the spurs have gotten older. I think its the spurs fans who need to keep drinking the kool aid.

Western Conference Champs! Since your punk-a$$ team couldn't produce after the Spurs left the door open, I guess we'll have to kick your choke-city a$$es and show you how it's done. Don't come in here embarrassing yourself by flashing around a Western Conference title. We are impressed by championships here.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol Damn people. I'm just not drinking the silver and black Kool Aid these days. I just want to see the front office do something that shows me that they're serious about not being on the wrong end of another series with Dallas.

I'm thrilled with the Butler signing, but right now I look at the Spurs and see an organization lead by a coach who has embraced small ball but hasn't done anything to address the fact he doesn't have all the personnel necessary to run it.

LJ can start a five page thread on Mavs vs. the Spurs, but heavenforbid I break up the circle jerk on this thread.

And yeah, it all pisses me off. It'd piss you off too if you were stuck in the middle of basketball hell (aka Dallas) and had to work with all these dumbfucks up here every day talking shit about their team.

What's the point of signing a guy like Butler if push comes to shove next year against Dallas knowing Pop is going to go small ball with four guards and Tim anyway?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think small ball is the lock you do.

[Brutalis]

C
Butler<Dampier
Elson<Diop
Oberto>Podkolzin
PF
Tim>Dirk
Horry>Croshere
Bonner>Mbenga
SF
Bowen>Howard
Finley>Stackhouse
Williams<Buckner
SG
Manu>Terry
Barry<Ager
PG
Tony>Harris
Beno<Johnson
Vaughn

That says it all.

Spurs win by 3 people. So we are better. Case closed.


You must be from Mississippi. You can count to three.

[strangeweather]

And yeah, it all pisses me off. It'd piss you off too if you were stuck in the middle of basketball hell (aka Dallas) and had to work with all these dumbfucks up here every day talking shit about their team.
It's Cowboys training camp time. Haven't they all forgotten basketball exists again?

[ChumpDumper]

I can't wait to bust out my Toros > Arsenal list.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You must be from Mississippi. You can count to three.
I'm a Mex-Tex.

[LEONARD]

Mavs have one championship in their eyes. They beat the Spurs in '06. I don't think how much you realize how important that was for them.

Exactly!

Not to mention getting finals experience, regardless of how badly it went...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's Cowboys training camp time. Haven't they all forgotten basketball exists again?

Until I roll into work on casual day with a Spurs jersey on :lol