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View Full Version : Buck Harvey: Spurs' hope of the summer — if Jackie becomes Jack



Solid D
07-26-2006, 11:38 PM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA072706.1C.COL.BKNharvey.spurs.32a5c57.html

Web Posted: 07/26/2006 10:29 PM CDT

San Antonio Express-News

Peter Holt likes what his team has done this summer. The Dallas Mavericks do, too.
Holt's Spurs dumped Rasho Nesterovic's salary, passed when Nazr Mohammed got a better offer and generally yawned at What Was Out There. The Spurs upgraded their payroll far better than they did their talent.

That's the management theme under Holt, whose current payroll is about $30 million less than Mark Cuban's. So what the Spurs need now, to beat Cuban, is the continuation of another theme.

They need to get lucky on another bargain. They need an overlooked kid to become a power off the bench. They need a 6-foot-10 manchild named Jackie Butler to be this season's find.

They need for Butler to be the next Stephen Jackson — another McDonald's All-American who didn't play in college and needed the company of adults.

The Spurs haven't been illogical this summer. They weighed dollars vs. productivity, and more teams should try it.

An ESPN.com article recently said as much. Over the past two years, 34 different players have signed free-agent deals worth at least $35 million, and the writer estimated that 20 of those have been mistakes.

The Spurs haven't often overpaid, and they saw Mohammed's demands as similarly inflated. But as prudent as they have been, they also didn't get better the past month, especially compared with what the Mavericks did.

Dallas signed its free agents, then packaged a few unneeded pieces for a backup point guard (Anthony Johnson) who scored 40 points in a playoff game last spring. Among those who tried to slow Johnson that night was a new Spur, Jacque Vaughn.

The Mavericks used their first-round pick on a promising guard (Maurice Ager), and they managed to dump their own bloated contract. In place of Marquis Daniels, Dallas got an experienced version of Matt Bonner (Austin Croshere).

Meanwhile, the Spurs carved out financial flexibility for the future, which is smart but doesn't do much toward countering Dirk Nowitzki. Besides, should the Spurs be worrying about the future or the present? Tim Duncan is 30 years old.

The former Nugget, Francisco Elson, will help Duncan. Mohammed and Nesterovic are better, but not for two or three times the money.

Duncan's hope, however, is his opposite. Butler. Whereas Duncan stayed at Wake Forest against the advice of those who knew he would be the No. 1 choice overall, Butler went pro out of high school against the advice of those who knew better.

Butler wasn't drafted, and this career decision fits his demeanor. Those in New York say he's hard to understand because he mumbles, and they say he has a few social issues.

And when he played well at times last season? Even that was hard to measure, because the Knicks were so chaotic and awful.

But Larry Brown saw it all, and he saw how hard the guy tried and how quickly he improved. "I love the kid," Brown said this week from Long Island. "He can just play."

Brown can get carried away. When coaching the Spurs, Brown would say "I love the kid," then cut his love the next week.

But Brown knows everything about his players, and he sees nothing in Butler that a more mature locker room wouldn't cure. Put Butler next to Duncan and Bruce Bowen and Michael Finley, and Brown says, "In that environment, he will be phenomenal."

Jackson needed the same. He had already endured the CBA, as Butler did, and had received some NBA experience in the New York market, as Butler did.

Jackson left the Nets with some bitterness, and the attitude would fester later. Jackson lost half a season after going into the stands to defend Ron Artest.

But in San Antonio, calmed by those around him, Jackson closed out playoff series after playoff series in 2003 on the way to a title. Would the Spurs have won that championship without him?

Butler can score, too, and his post game could be handy when Duncan sits. Brown says Butler isn't afraid, just as Jackson wasn't, and he comes with gifts that can't be taught, just as Jackson did.

Brown's assessment: good hands, good passing touch and "great instincts" for the game.

Only 20 years old last season, Butler shot 55 percent from the floor and averaged almost 16 points per 40 minutes. Duncan will notice, too, that Butler is a 75 percent free-throw shooter.

Butler won't be the solution to Nowitzki, and he's not known as a shot-blocker. He won't help the Spurs go small, and he likely won't play in many fourth quarters, either.

But given what else has happened this summer? Given what Dallas has done?

Another Jackson is as much as the Spurs can hope for.
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MannyIsGod
07-27-2006, 01:20 AM
Under what name does this guy post on this board? Cause man, LJ posts something and then Harvey writes about it like clockwork.

Please_dont_ban_me
07-27-2006, 01:44 AM
But as prudent as they have been, they also didn't get better the past month, especially compared with what the Mavericks did.

How do you measure "getting better" against what moves the Mavs have made?

Please_dont_ban_me
07-27-2006, 01:48 AM
Long-winded way to say "lets hope the kid is a pleasant surprise like Jax was".

T Park
07-27-2006, 01:54 AM
Id love to know who was the "Dirk stopper" that was available.

Obstructed_View
07-27-2006, 01:55 AM
Why don't I trust anything Larry Brown says?

T Park
07-27-2006, 01:57 AM
I don't know why.

Hes seen quite a bit of talent come through his teams.


If he says someone is a good player, Id take notice.

dbestpro
07-27-2006, 01:57 AM
I've got a funny feeling that Dallas will not be able to handle the pressure of being top dog. They wilted in the finals when it got physical. Dallas will whine a ton and probably will have a right too as they can expect teams to lay plenty of hard fouls because they saw what Miami did and how well it worked. Because of how they handled the finals they may find very few sympathetic ears from the refs and league office. Even with all of the so called improvements for Dallas, I think and I am the first to say so that it could very well be a long season for Dallas.

ChumpDumper
07-27-2006, 02:42 AM
Goddam mouthpiece.

All the media's base are belong to Pop.

J.T.
07-27-2006, 02:53 AM
Under what name does this guy post on this board? Cause man, LJ posts something and then Harvey writes about it like clockwork.

Ain't it the truth.

ChumpDumper
07-27-2006, 02:54 AM
There is no mention of tractors in that article.

T Park
07-27-2006, 03:18 AM
Im now convinced Buck Harvey is "Mr. Body"

ChumpDumper
07-27-2006, 03:22 AM
Where is the quote from Bruce Bowen, goddammit?

timvp
07-27-2006, 04:30 AM
Under what name does this guy post on this board? Cause man, LJ posts something and then Harvey writes about it like clockwork.

Good question. It's getting annoying.

At least credit timvp as a source or something.

GhostofAlfrederickHughes
07-27-2006, 07:11 AM
Butler wasn't drafted, and this career decision fits his demeanor. Those in New York say he's hard to understand because he mumbles, and they say he has a few social issues.

We have our very own Shaq!!!!

:elephant

TheTruth
07-27-2006, 07:34 AM
Ain't it the truth.
That is a gotdamn lie.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-27-2006, 07:38 AM
Jackie blocked about 1.6shots/40mins last season, a little worse than Rasho. I think with his athleticism in our system that could improve. :tu

Other than that, decent article but for the blatant rip-off of timvp. :nope

picnroll
07-27-2006, 08:17 AM
Good thing Spurs signed Butler. Otherwise we'd have to be talking about Beno stepping it up thisa year as the difference maker. I don't think even T Park could buy into that one. :lol

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-27-2006, 08:26 AM
The Spurs haven't often overpaid, and they saw Mohammed's demands as similarly inflated. But as prudent as they have been, they also didn't get better the past month, especially compared with what the Mavericks did.

This guy is so negative, all he ever does is complain. He's been complaining since the beginning, whether we win or lose. :rolleyes

furry_spurry
07-27-2006, 08:33 AM
People do recall that "Jack" didn't do Jack his first season with the Spurs except gripe that he wasn't getting to play. I hope fans get more from Jackie than that.

timvp
07-27-2006, 05:11 PM
People do recall that "Jack" didn't do Jack his first season with the Spurs except gripe that he wasn't getting to play. I hope fans get more from Jackie than that.

Also remember that Nazr and Rasho's were best right off the bat. Both got worse as time went on.

furry_spurry
07-27-2006, 05:34 PM
Also remember that Nazr and Rasho's were best right off the bat. Both got worse as time went on.
And when next season they both go back to playing like they did the last season before they got here and the first one they were here, what will that mean-- that playing alongside Tim Duncan is not so good for other big men after all-- that the Spurs did not know how to use them properly-- that the more the Spurs tried to change their games to fit in with their roles in SA, the worse it got-- that the mind games were not only not effective with either of them but also "detrimental."

El_Mago
07-27-2006, 06:19 PM
:smokin

timvp
07-27-2006, 06:34 PM
And when next season they both go back to playing like they did the last season before they got here and the first one they were here, what will that mean-- that playing alongside Tim Duncan is not so good for other big men after all-- that the Spurs did not know how to use them properly-- that the more the Spurs tried to change their games to fit in with their roles in SA, the worse it got-- that the mind games were not only not effective with either of them but also "detrimental."

What mind games did Pop play with Rasho? Rasho was coddled by Pop more than any Spur in team history.

Please_dont_ban_me
07-27-2006, 06:39 PM
What mind games did Pop play with Rasho? Rasho was coddled by Pop more than any Spur in team history.

This is true.

I've never seen Pop go out of his way so much to make somebody seem like he's doing such a good job as he did with Rasho. Everytime he opened his mouth we'd hear "he's always in the right place on defense".

RuffnReadyOzStyle
07-27-2006, 06:46 PM
And when next season they both go back to playing like they did the last season before they got here and the first one they were here, what will that mean-- that playing alongside Tim Duncan is not so good for other big men after all-- that the Spurs did not know how to use them properly-- that the more the Spurs tried to change their games to fit in with their roles in SA, the worse it got-- that the mind games were not only not effective with either of them but also "detrimental."

Yeah, we only won a championship and came within .4sec/stupid foul of a 3-peat. We sure didn't know how to use those guys! :rolleyes

Ocotillo
07-27-2006, 07:42 PM
What mind games did Pop play with Rasho? Rasho was coddled by Pop more than any Spur in team history.

*cough* Hedo *cough*

But Rasho did get plenty of love from Pop.

furry_spurry
07-27-2006, 08:37 PM
Rasho was coddled by Pop more than any Spur in team history.
Not true.

True, everyone knows how Pop felt about Rasho as a person-- even saying once he was in love with Rasho-- but that isn't the same thing as being coddled as a player. The public comments about Rasho being in the right place on defense not only came in response to repeated questions about Rasho- but were also true. Pop was just as hard and sometimes even harder on Rasho than other players. He got no hand holding or special treatment or minutes he did not earn. Pop yelled at him plenty, like he does everyone. If anything, Pop would get even more pissed because he believed that Rasho could do more if he would just be more aggressive, and Pop had thought that he would be the one to bring that out in him.

wildbill2u
07-27-2006, 09:12 PM
Id love to know who was the "Dirk stopper" that was available.

Ditto. There isn't one in the league, now that Avery's taught him to use his height and go to the hoop instead of staying on the perimeter.

no matter how well Bowen has played him on occasion, Dirk is going to get his points in most games. You play the Mavs like you play the Lakers and Kobe--concede the superstar a good game and make the other guys beat you.

If Parker and Manu and Duncan and whoever our Big is can't defend and generally outplay the rest of the Mavs, then we'll lose.

Please_dont_ban_me
07-27-2006, 10:59 PM
Jared Jeffries is the closest to a Dirk stopper who was available in my opinion.

But he cost too much...so got the Melzer kid, and Eric Williams. Between the two of them hopefully somebody steps up and bothers Dirk a little like Posey and Haslem did for the Heat.

AFBlue
07-28-2006, 08:26 AM
Jared Jeffries is the closest to a Dirk stopper who was available in my opinion.

But he cost too much...so got the Melzer kid, and Eric Williams. Between the two of them hopefully somebody steps up and bothers Dirk a little like Posey and Haslem did for the Heat.

Why stop Dirk? He's got a great offensive game. Put someone small on him and he backs you down or shoots over you, put someone big on him and he blows right by you. The thing about the Mavs is they have other ways to beat you: namely Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and Jerry Stackhouse. I suggest the Spurs focus on JET, Howard, and Stack to limit their production and stop commiting so much effort to guarding Dirk. I know I'll probably catch hell for stating this, but it does have presedence.

Two years ago whenever we played the Suns, we knew that Amare Stoudamire was their most prolific scorer, BUT he wasn't their most productive player because he didn't get others involved; that'd be Steve Nash. So we focused on stopping Steve Nash, limiting the fast-break, and guarding the perimeter. The result was a 40 point game by Amare, but a loss by the Suns.

I'm not saying we totally slack off of the guy and let him score at will, but I'll say that he's got the size/speed combo to pretty much score at will anyways. So I don't think we need ANOTHER Dirk stopper, because the one we have right now is pretty good, and we should focus defensively on limiting the production of others while not killing ourselves offensively by playing essentially a 4-man offensive team w/ a defensive specialist on the court at all times.

So, say NO to Eric Williams on the Active Roster and NO to Melzer as the 15th man!

ObiwanGinobili
07-28-2006, 08:32 AM
Buck Harvey = Kill Joy.

even if he;s praising the Spurs he has to get in a minimum of 4 jabs.

ObiwanGinobili
07-28-2006, 08:34 AM
anyone else not happy to hear this kids got attitude problems???

how much differnece do you think being around Timmy, Manu, Bowen, & Oberto will have on him? (I list those 4 specifically as some of our most stadn up humble guys)

Aggie Hoopsfan
07-28-2006, 08:52 AM
Ditto. There isn't one in the league, now that Avery's taught him to use his height and go to the hoop instead of staying on the perimeter.

no matter how well Bowen has played him on occasion, Dirk is going to get his points in most games. You play the Mavs like you play the Lakers and Kobe--concede the superstar a good game and make the other guys beat you.

If Parker and Manu and Duncan and whoever our Big is can't defend and generally outplay the rest of the Mavs, then we'll lose.

The problem is for whatever idiotic reason Pop thinks he needs to change his whole game plan and substitution pattern to try to stop Dirk.

Why? It's one of the great mysteries of the 05-06 Spurs, especially considering Pop did exactly what you mentioned about Kobe - shut down the rest and let him get his. We also did it to Amare and the Suns last year.

But hey, AJ is a great guy and I'm happy for him [/Pop]

spurs_fan_in_exile
07-28-2006, 09:23 AM
anyone else not happy to hear this kids got attitude problems???

how much differnece do you think being around Timmy, Manu, Bowen, & Oberto will have on him? (I list those 4 specifically as some of our most stadn up humble guys)

The attitude problems don't worry me much. He's still young and impressionable and simply getting out of the shit storm in NY would be enough to improve anyone's attitude. Getting a guy into a winning situation can work wonders. Rasheed Wallace, while still far from a model NBA citizen, vastly improved his attitude with a change of scenery. If he can do it anyone can.

Mr. Body
07-28-2006, 09:57 AM
What attitude problems? By all accounts he was the hardest worker on a team of slackers and was the most coachable out of a team too enamored of Marbury-style dribble-n-chuck.