Vince Young signs $58 million deal

[T-Pain]

ESPN.com


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Tennessee Titans promised they wanted Vince Young, the third pick overall and the first quarterback taken in the draft, under contract before they opened training camp.



They avoided any lengthy holdouts Thursday, agreeing to terms with both Young and LenDale White a day before the first practice Friday afternoon.



Young, the No. 3 overall pick out of Texas, agreed to a five-year deal, with an option for a sixth, with $25.7 million guaranteed and an overall value that could reach $58 million with option and roster bonuses and salary.

The contract includes a $12.3 million option bonus due next March, a $2.365 roster bonus due this year and six years of guaranteed salary totalling $11.075 million, for guaranteed money totalling $25.74 million, ESPN.com's Michael Smith reports. There's a one-time bonus of $4.1 million Young can collect should he play in 35 percent of the Titans' snaps this year or 45 percent in any other year.


That would top the six-year, $54 million deal with $26.5 million guaranteed for the top draft pick, defensive end Mario Williams of Houston.



"It was a great deal for us," said Major Adams, the quarterback's agent.



Adams flew into Nashville a week ago and has been negotiating with Reese to have Young under contract before the Titans open training camp on Friday afternoon. The Titans also wanted Young in camp on time to speed his development for a team trying to rebound from a 4-12 record in 2005.



"We're pleased to finish up these rookie contracts in time for camp," general manager Floyd Reese said.



"Both sides had one goal, and that was to get him in on time," Adams said. "We accomplished that, and we worked diligently to get him in."



Adams said Young, who was in Nashville on Thursday, was very excited and will be in Clarksville on Friday.



Coach Jeff Fisher called the deals good news even though the deals still had to be finalized and signed, which could delay Young's first practice.



"This is an especially important year for both these players, in addition to all the other draft choices," Fisher said. "They're able to come in at the start of camp and put a full training camp under their belt before the season starts."



Reese has had all but two of his top draft picks under contract before training camp since the franchise relocated to Tennessee from Houston in 1997. Cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones, the sixth pick overall in 2005, missed 20 days of training camp before signing his own five-year deal.



"This ensures that all of our rookies can focus on football and improving each day in practice so they can be in a position to contribute to the team," Reese said in a statement.



Young won't come into training camp as the starter. That job, for now, belongs to six-year veteran Billy Volek.



But the Titans used their highest draft pick since taking Steve McNair in the same spot in 1995 looking for another franchise quarterback. They gambled on the athletic ability and promise shown by the 6-foot-4, 233-pound Young and drafted him over Matt Leinart of Southern California and Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt.



"Every practice is important," Fisher said. "Every session is important. Training camp goes beyond practice. It's meetings, walk-throughs, all those kinds of things. Every day is important, especially as it relates to a young quarterback."



Young led the Texas Longhorns to a 30-2 record in three seasons, including the national title last January in the Rose Bowl. Young completed 61.8 percent of his passes and also had 43 career runs of 20 yards or longer, including seven of 51 yards or longer.



He totaled 9,167 yards offense at Texas, a school record. He also was second in the Heisman Trophy voting last year and won the Davey O'Brien award as the top quarterback.



White, the former Southern California running back, lost that Rose Bowl to Young and also came out after his junior season. But it was a right hamstring injury that kept him from running for teams before the draft that dropped him from a possible top 15 pick to the second round where Tennessee took him with the 45th pick overall.



The 6-foot-1, 235-pound running back will find himself behind starter Chris Brown and veteran Travis Henry. But White has shown both power with 52 rushing touchdowns and dependability with only four fumbles in his last 541 carries.



He averaged 6.6 yards per carry and led the nation in scoring with 156 points in 2005.



The Titans also agreed to terms with fifth-round pick Terna Nande. The linebacker from Miami of Ohio agreed to terms on a three-year contract




Damn, looks like Reggies holdin out for sure!!! I doubt the saints can beat VY's contract...

[Mr Dio]

Titans got the best QB in this yr's draft.

[Beer is Good]

25 mil guanteed? If he's halfway smart with his money the man is set. Good deal Vince. Good Deal.

[Mr Dio]

I think it is close to or a lil over $29 mil.

[DeMarcus Bryant]

hell yeah, VY is the shit.

[Beer is Good]

ESPN.com


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Tennessee Titans promised they wanted Vince Young, the third pick overall and the first quarterback taken in the draft, under contract before they opened training camp.


Young, the No. 3 overall pick out of Texas, agreed to a five-year deal, with an option for a sixth, with $25.7 million guaranteed and an overall value that could reach $58 million with option and roster bonuses and salary.

The contract includes a $12.3 million option bonus due next March

That's where I took the 25 mil number from. 25.7 to quote exactly

[T-Pain]

well Vince is a rich man, thats for sure

[johngateswhiteley]

1. HUGE gamble and, imo, a waste of money
2. horrible news for the Saints who are now going to have to come up with $58 million + $1
3. the best QB in the draft is Leinart and after that....hmmm, maybe cutler....

...this is going to go down as one of the worst deals in the history of the NFL.

[koopa]

wtf??? cutler, dude you must be stuck on stupid with that remark. vince will be the better out of the top three, vince proved it in college and he'll prove it in the nfl. i'm glad he got signed, he doesn't need to be missing out on anything.

[Beer is Good]

1. HUGE gamble and, imo, a waste of money
2. horrible news for the Saints who are now going to have to come up with $58 million + $1
3. the best QB in the draft is Leinart and after that....hmmm, maybe cutler....

...this is going to go down as one of the worst deals in the history of the NFL.
Those SC goggles are fitted firmly upon the brow of our resident aggey-trojan. Double the hate, both teams HOOKED in '05 :spin

[Beer is Good]

2. horrible news for the Saints who are now going to have to come up with $58 million + $1

I do agree with that statement. That signing completely fucked the Saints and threw off the natural order of dollar amounts for contracts for players taken in the 1st round. Looks like Houston was smart after all.

[johngateswhiteley]

wtf??? cutler, dude you must be stuck on stupid with that remark. vince will be the better out of the top three, vince proved it in college and he'll prove it in the nfl. i'm glad he got signed, he doesn't need to be missing out on anything.

...i don't think Cutler is going to be that great in the nfl, probably an average qb. which, does say a lot about what i think of vy.....he will be a huge letdown.

and if you want to talk about who proved it in college....if you compare Leinart to vy in college, Leinart blows him out of the water. the stats, games, and championships!!!

[Extra Stout]

...i don't think Cutler is going to be that great in the nfl, probably an average qb. which, does say a lot about what i think of vy.....he will be a huge letdown.

and if you want to talk about who proved it in college....if you compare Leinart to vy in college, Leinart blows him out of the water. the stats, games, and championships!!!
Right, and David Robinson totally owns Hakeem Olajuwon too.

[Mr Dio]

wtf??? cutler, dude you must be stuck on stupid with that remark. vince will be the better out of the top three, vince proved it in college and he'll prove it in the nfl. i'm glad he got signed, he doesn't need to be missing out on anything.


:lol

Leinart will be a good but not great QB. As long as the wind doesn't blow too hard & his passes flutter & hang in the air like a nice little sick/dying duck.

Cutler could be the 2nd best QB in this yr's 1st round.
VY def #1.
Time will tell though.

[tlongII]

Vince Young is going to suck in the NFL.

[johngateswhiteley]

Vince Young is going to suck in the NFL.

agreed. you are a gentleman and a scholar.

[degenerate_gambler]

Vince Young is going to suck in the NFL.


That would be Reggie McNeal.


Oh wait...you'll have to actually have game minutes to suck.

[Brutalis]

Vince Young is going to suck in the NFL.
I tend to agree. You have to have brains, not just skill to win.

Makes me wonder how he managed to do well in school. There's really not a cure for stupid.

[tlongII]

head to head matchup: VY 1, Leinart 0
total ncaa championships won: VY 1, Leinart 1


why do some peopel say VY is stupid? because of the dunderlick or is it bc he's black you fascists

Because he is.

[NBA Junkie]

The Saints chances of signing Reggie Bush just got tougher.

[Mr Dio]

Well, Joey Suckington was an awwwwwwwwwwwesome QB & pretty typical of most PAC-10 QBs of late. :lol

Wonder what Joey's Wonderlic score was? :lol

[Mr Dio]

That would be Reggie McNeal.


Oh wait...you'll have to actually have game minutes to suck.


Who?
What round was he drafted?
Drafted to lead a team to a Super Bowl as a QB?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

1. HUGE gamble and, imo, a waste of money
2. horrible news for the Saints who are now going to have to come up with $58 million + $1
3. the best QB in the draft is Leinart and after that....hmmm, maybe cutler....

...this is going to go down as one of the worst deals in the history of the NFL.

Does your gay ass say ANYTHING that hasn't been said on espn.com a million times already? You're such a generic asshole.

Like when you bring up Bush being more of a sure thing than Young in a fucking Bush thread. You are worthless.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

...i don't think Cutler is going to be that great in the nfl, probably an average qb. which, does say a lot about what i think of vy.....he will be a huge letdown.

and if you want to talk about who proved it in college....if you compare Leinart to vy in college, Leinart blows him out of the water. the stats, games, and championships!!!

Jesus Christ

[Mr Dio]

Does your gay ass say ANYTHING that hasn't been said on espn.com a million times already? You're such a generic asshole.

Like when you bring up Bush being more of a sure thing than Young in a fucking Bush thread. You are worthless.


:lol

:owned

[Mr Dio]

I'm still trying to find what (2) BCS National Championship games that Leinart won.

The BCS Nat'l Championship game does pit the #1 & #2 rated BCS teams vs each other to play & determine a champion. Which (2) of these games did USC win again?

[johngateswhiteley]

Does your gay ass say ANYTHING that hasn't been said on espn.com a million times already? You're such a generic asshole.

Like when you bring up Bush being more of a sure thing than Young in a fucking Bush thread. You are worthless.


...i don't know, i don't watch espn that much cocksmoke....you tell me. i am just spitting logic at you, and from the espn stuff i have seen, most seem to like vy and many think he will do well. so i have no idea what you are referring to.

Dio-
...your schtick is old man. Leinart won two national championships....go look at the record books and what goes down in history that EVERYONE else will remember. maybe not some people in Texas, but i don't give a fuck about that and i am sure neither does Leinart....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Saying he won two championships is legit, however, only one of those championships was undisputed, while the first one was divided, in the dictionary sense of the word.

[scott]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.

[johngateswhiteley]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.


:lol ...now thats what i am talking about. how come nobody else can see this?

[young_prosecutor]

Vince is innocent in my book :worthy: :bike: :bike: :cell

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.


Possibly. What I don't get is why we haven't heard any talk of him possibly being a combo player. Would he be the first to do this? He could run plays from the QB position, or put him at receiver, or put him at running back. I wonder if that's ever been done by any nfl player before.

[Mr Dio]

Dio-
...your schtick is old man. Leinart won two national championships....go look at the record books and what goes down in history that EVERYONE else will remember. maybe not some people in Texas, but i don't give a fuck about that and i am sure neither does Leinart....


Translation---
Dio, I don't have any comeback as to how many BCS National Championships Matt won & I can't dispute it with logic.

[Mr Dio]

:lol ...now thats what i am talking about. how come nobody else can see this?


Well, let's see.....

#1---We have our eyesight.
#2---We saw the Rose Bowl(s)
#3---We aren't still pissed about the Condoms taking it up the ass from UT.
#4---We loved seeing (2) HTrophy winners NOT measuring up to a runner-up.
#5---Hatred of VY is so old & shows one's immaturity.

[Beer is Good]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.

[Holmes_Fans]

Vince Young is gonna suck in the nfl because his wonderlic score was the same or high as

Randall Cunningham, quarterback — 15
# Jim Kelly, quarterback — 15
# Dan Marino, quarterback — 15
# Terry Bradshaw, quarterback — 15
# Neil O'Donnell, quarterback — 13
# Donovan McNabb, quarterback — 12

and within 5 of
# Michael Vick, quarterback — 20
# Vinny Testaverde, quarterback — 17
# Antwaan Randle El, wide receiver (former college quarterback) — 17
# Aaron Brooks, quarterback — 16


Yep vince is an idiot because he got a higher score than some of the greatest QB's ever.

[scott]

Possibly. What I don't get is why we haven't heard any talk of him possibly being a combo player. Would he be the first to do this? He could run plays from the QB position, or put him at receiver, or put him at running back. I wonder if that's ever been done by any nfl player before.

Cordell is the only guy I can think of off the top of my head. I don't think Vince could get it done at RB. He's too big and not fast enough to break through the tiny holes that open up for NFL RBs for fractions of a second at a time. Vince is an effective scrambler in wide open space with DBs and LBs dropped back in coverage. You hand the ball off to him for any kind of dive, off tackle, or pitch play and the dude would get killed in the backfield.

At WR, however, he'll be able to use his natural talent and size to his advantage - and his speed (which isn't all that great in terms of WRs) won't be an issue.

[scott]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.

Vince's arm isn't the strongest I've seen either, and he has a fraction of Leinart's accuracy. I don't think VYwill be a bad NFL QB because he's "dumb". I think he'll be a bad NFL QB because I've never seen him make a series of NFL caliber throws and he has shown problems will making the right reads.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't think so. That doesn't mean Leinart will be a good pro either. I think he has an advantage over Vince because of what he has to work with in Arizona... but put VY in Arizona and Leinart in Tennessee and I'd give VY the advantage.

I think this will turn out to be a huge BUST QB class.

[Mr Dio]

What were the %'s of Matt's & VY's completed passes these past 2 yrs?

[Mr Dio]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.


We have someone with intelligence!
Very nice post sir.

If only more posters had your sense of realism. Seriously, just because a player went to a certain school doesn't mean squat. I wish you could teach a couple of other people how to post with prudent realism. Not fantasy world crush on a player-ism. :lol

[Mr Dio]

For the 2005 season
===============
VY----- 65.2%
Matt--- 65.7%

Yeah, I can see where some might think that VY isn't accurate.
Maybe they should open their eyes now.

[Holmes_Fans]

VY led the nation in passing effenciency at the end of the regular season aswell.

[johngateswhiteley]

vy may be dumb, but that has nothing to do with my argument...much as Scotts. vy was a wonderful college football player and belongs on any list of some of the best football qb's of all time, i have nothing against him as an nfl prospect. i just don't think he'll amount to anything for the following reasons:

1. vy is slower than vick, no way he is going to outrun players in the nfl and he is not as quick
2. vy arm is no more accurate than vick's from what i can see and and his arm strength is probably comparable
3. vy has no nfl qualities that i saw in his college play

...and vick sucks. but vy is a winner, i'll give him that, but without the necessary tools he will not be able to get it done. i don't care if he is smart or not.

as for Leinart, his arm strength is fine and he is accurate as hell...he'll be fine.

[Mr Dio]

#1---Matt's arm strength is seriously lacking.

#2---Matt gets rattled easily & can't keep his head in a tough game ala 2006 Rose Bowl. His own coach didn't trust his decision making with the biggest game in the past decade on the line.

#3---When Matt plays on the road with a slight gusty wind that VY would be able to handle Matt will throw up a wounded duck.

#4---TEN, NYJ, OAK & DET all saw the obvious, that after VY there wasn't a top 10 QB.

#5---AZ will always be AZ & that was evident when they wasted a pick that high on Matt who is an awesome value in the 20-32 range. Top 10?, hardly.

#6---Head-to-Head VY carried his team & succeeded. Matt flopped like many of his passes in a 3MPH wind.

#7---Vick is very fast & is knocked down with a 5MPH wind. VY isn't, shredded the USC D like it was nada. Try apples to apples next time.

#8---VY finshed less than 1% behind Matt in completions.

#9---VY had more TOTAL O than Matt.

#10---VY had more TDs than Matt...38 to 34.

#11---VY had a BTTER Yds/Attmpt than Matt in Passing AND Rushing. (That's gotta sting!)

#12---VY 6'5" 230 BEFORE any NFL strength training. Vick 6' 215 AFTER apprx 5 seasons. Try apples to apples. A very basic concept it is.

[Holmes_Fans]

Vick = Athlete who happens to play QB
Young = Quarterback who is also an athlete

Young threw twice the passes his final year than Vick did and had a higher completion %

Vick was always run first, throw later
Young was pass then run if neccasary. I know most of you have only seen highlights of VY running, but most of his runs were designed and he rarely scrambled except for the RB game.


Scott, how is VY not any good at making reads? There entire offense is based on a shotgun read play. He was obviously good enough to hand it off at the right time for 4 RB's to have 5+ ypc. Would of had atleast 1 other 1,000 yard rusher if the runs weren't split between 3 people.

[Beer is Good]

vy may be dumb, but that has nothing to do with my argument...much as Scotts. vy was a wonderful college football player and belongs on any list of some of the best football qb's of all time, i have nothing against him as an nfl prospect. i just don't think he'll amount to anything for the following reasons:

1. vy is slower than vick, no way he is going to outrun players in the nfl and he is not as quick
2. vy arm is no more accurate than vick's from what i can see and and his arm strength is probably comparable
3. vy has no nfl qualities that i saw in his college play

...and vick sucks. but vy is a winner, i'll give him that, but without the necessary tools he will not be able to get it done. i don't care if he is smart or not.

as for Leinart, his arm strength is fine and he is accurate as hell...he'll be fine.

Comparing VY to Vick is weak. Surely you have watched enough football to know that they are two completely different types of QBs. You are just reaching now. Vick never showed the accuracy (through comp. %), poise, or ability to lead a team to a National Championship. And Vick never played against a stacked team with 2 Heisman winners - a team that many of the analysts were calling the best ever. VY did and triumphed. Is he ready to be a Pro Bowl QB now? Of course not. But with Chow and Fisher leading the way he'll soon develop into a great QB. Just look at how much he improved at Texas in just 2 years (from the end of his freshman year to the end of the Rose Bowl 2006).The guy learns fast and is a BIG guy who can stand the physicality better than a QB like Vick.

Leinart throws ducks. You can't do that in the NFL and get away with it. Pure and simple. He has a lot to improve on - not to say that he can't or won't, but he isn't anywhere near ready to play at this level.

Apples to Apples: VY has the bigger upside at this point.

[scott]

Scott, how is VY not any good at making reads? There entire offense is based on a shotgun read play. He was obviously good enough to hand it off at the right time for 4 RB's to have 5+ ypc. Would of had atleast 1 other 1,000 yard rusher if the runs weren't split between 3 people.

Making a read between "handoff" and "pass to #1 option" is not an NFL read. Sorry.

Dio, there is a big difference between being an efficient and accurate passer in college and in the NFL - and you know that. Vince has a very respectable completion % his senior year, but he was very inconsistent from game to game.

LA-Lafeyette: 76.5%
Ohio State - 62.1%
Rice - 57.1%
Missouri - 68.2%
OU - 51.9%
Colorado - 86.2%
Texas Tech - 54.5%
Oklahoma State - 50%
Baylor - 59.3%
Kansas - 70.4%
TAMU - 54.2%
Colorado - 82.4%
USC - 75%

It looks good for the whole year, but that kind of inconsistency won't cut it in the NFL.

Leinart was inconsistent at times as well, but not to the degree Young was.

Hawaii - 75%
Arkansas - 75%
Oregon - 59%
Arizona State - 59%
Arizona - 65%
Notre Dame - 53.1%
Washington - 76.9%
Washington State - 70.6%
Stanford - 78.6%
California - 62.5%
Fresno State - 66.7%
UCLA - 52.5%
Texas - 72.5%

Like I said, I only give Leinart the edge over Vince right now because of the team he went to. Young has a stronger arm, but I still think it is on the weak side. He has never shown the ability to throw the 15 yard out. But then again, neither can Drew Brees. Leinart has more touch and accuracy on his ball, and has better QB smarts.

Neither are likely to ever be pro-bowlers, IMO.

And I can see this because:

Well, let's see.....

#1---I have my eyesight.
#2---I saw a lot of games from both QBs
#3---I don't care about UT or USC.
#4---I don't have an opinion one way or another seeing (2) HTrophy winners NOT measuring up to a runner-up.
#5---Blind love of VY or Leinart is so old & shows one's immaturity.

[Obstructed_View]

Vince is a good enough athlete to play in the NFL, I just don't know if he'll be doing it at QB in three years.

[Sportcamper]

Titans got the best QB in this yr's draft.

LenDale White was a steal @ #45....Titans may also have gotten the best "NFL running back" in this years draft..... :smokin

[johngateswhiteley]

#1---Matt's arm strength is seriously lacking.

#2---Matt gets rattled easily & can't keep his head in a tough game ala 2006 Rose Bowl. His own coach didn't trust his decision making with the biggest game in the past decade on the line.

#3---When Matt plays on the road with a slight gusty wind that VY would be able to handle Matt will throw up a wounded duck.

#4---TEN, NYJ, OAK & DET all saw the obvious, that after VY there wasn't a top 10 QB.

#5---AZ will always be AZ & that was evident when they wasted a pick that high on Matt who is an awesome value in the 20-32 range. Top 10?, hardly.

#6---Head-to-Head VY carried his team & succeeded. Matt flopped like many of his passes in a 3MPH wind.

#7---Vick is very fast & is knocked down with a 5MPH wind. VY isn't, shredded the USC D like it was nada. Try apples to apples next time.

#8---VY finshed less than 1% behind Matt in completions.

#9---VY had more TOTAL O than Matt.

#10---VY had more TDs than Matt...38 to 34.

#11---VY had a BTTER Yds/Attmpt than Matt in Passing AND Rushing. (That's gotta sting!)

#12---VY 6'5" 230 BEFORE any NFL strength training. Vick 6' 215 AFTER apprx 5 seasons. Try apples to apples. A very basic concept it is.


1. leinart's arm strength is not lacking, he may not be able to throw it 80 yards, but he can make every throw on the field. if you watched USC at all, you would know that...
2. i don't know what rose bowl you watched, but not only does one game mean absolutely nothing (he was great in pretty much every game before that), you're flat out wrong. leinart was insane in the second half, when it mattered most, leading the trojans to four straight td's and putting on a fucking clinic. thats just a stupid point
3. stupid and false
4. actually norm chow wanted Leinart and NOT vy, but the owner wanted vy and thats all that matters with bud adams. get your facts straight
5. stupid
6. did not know two straight national titles and one of the best streaks of all time was flopping...not to mention making the most clutch pass i have ever seen in the notre dame game last year
7. young is a run first qb, i don't care what any 'longhorn' fan thinks. you can spin it however you want...young always looked to run
8. so what...completely different offenses
9. so what...
10. so what...ever heard of tommy frazier...it does not always translate to the nfl, and NO he did not get drafted just b/c of the blood clot
11. irrelevant
12. it does not matter, nfl is all speed and quickness. vy will never get a corner against nfl defenses

....can't have it both ways guys. can't say Leinart was a flopper and not that good, or this and that....and then moments later say USC has lost too much leadership with Leinart gone this year. sorry, but Leinart is the BEST CFB QB of all time. Kirk Herbstreit is/was right...

Beer is God-
...comparing the two QBs is not weak. it is a perfect example of great college QBs whose skills will not transfer to the NFL. and you want to know the kicker? vy could not dream of being as good as vick has in the nfl....and vick is very very average, if not below. sorry....

[cecil collins]

I think Matt was good at conducting an overwhelming array of weapons. He threw accurate, short passes. I think he has no poise in the pocket, but was rarely pressured enough to make this evident. In the NFL, he will have no such luxuries. He will have command of some damn good weapons, but his line won't be the same. This year at USC there will be a new QB, with obviously weaker RB's and if you don't think losing Bush and White will hurt Booty, you are fooling yourself. I think uSC will win 9 or 10 games, but NC is unrealistic.

[johngateswhiteley]

I think Matt was good at conducting an overwhelming array of weapons. He threw accurate, short passes. I think he has no poise in the pocket, but was rarely pressured enough to make this evident. In the NFL, he will have no such luxuries. He will have command of some damn good weapons, but his line won't be the same. This year at USC there will be a new QB, with obviously weaker RB's and if you don't think losing Bush and White will hurt Booty, you are fooling yourself. I think uSC will win 9 or 10 games, but NC is unrealistic.

1. of course losing Bush and White will hurt, but there are not any teams as good as t.u. and USC where last year, so it won't matter as much. plus the WRs will be better and the o-line has the potential to be better...though i am not saying it will be
2. i think Matt has good poise, so we will agree to disagree on that. but i don't think vy has good poise in the pocket...and guess what, when he wants to then run, "uh OH"....meet my friend Ray Lewis. Ha ha ha ha....

[cecil collins]

VY was under far more pressure in college than Leinart. Young threw the ball with 2 guys hanging on him from time to time. Leinart threw off his back foot with a scared look on his face from time to time. I think Leinart will be decent in the right situation. I think Young will be great in the right situation. Both could be complete busts in the wrong situation.

And, he's not afraid of Ray Lewis.

[johngateswhiteley]

VY was under far more pressure in college than Leinart. Young threw the ball with 2 guys hanging on him from time to time. Leinart threw off his back foot with a scared look on his face from time to time. I think Leinart will be decent in the right situation. I think Young will be great in the right situation. Both could be complete busts in the wrong situation.

And, he's not afraid of Ray Lewis.


sidenote: why do people always bring up fear? many times it is so irrelevant....and it does not matter if young is scared of him or not. Lewis would eat him....it only matters what will happen.

[Mr Dio]

Yeah, I guess Ray Lewis will only tackle VY & not Matt. :rolleyes
Matt won't ever be sacked. :rolleyes
Matt won't play vs any team that has a MLB. :rolleyes

[johngateswhiteley]

Yeah, I guess Ray Lewis will only tackle VY & not Matt. :rolleyes
Matt won't ever be sacked. :rolleyes
Matt won't play vs any team that has a MLB. :rolleyes


...thanks for missing the point entirely. question: does Leinart depend on his legs?

[scott]

In 3 years when Matt is a mediocre at best NFL QB and Vince is calling Matt Jones for pointers on his transition to WR, you will all see how pointless this debate is.

[Holmes_Fans]

And reggie mcneal will be calling me to see what's up for people not playing in the NFl.

[scott]

In three years, Reggie will have been through the NFL and wondering what's up for people who can't even make it in the CFL. I suggest he give Quincy Carter a call.

[Mr Dio]

...thanks for missing the point entirely. question: does Leinart depend on his legs?


Actually, you missed my point.
Matt DOESN'T have his SC line to protect him.
Matty pooh will be much like his passes....a duck. Not wounded, at 1st....a sitting duck.

Don't get huffy but, maybe you should read up on the AZ Pro Bowl O-line that isn't. Just my opinion but Matt might need a set wheels for once in AZ this yr.

[cecil collins]

sidenote: why do people always bring up fear? many times it is so irrelevant....and it does not matter if young is scared of him or not. Lewis would eat him....it only matters what will happen.
I think fear has a lot to do with how Leinart plays. Fear is a bigger factor than you think. Sure, Young can be unafraid of Ray Lewis, and get tackled by him. He can also make Ray fall on his face and feabley grasp for his ankle as he runs by.

[johngateswhiteley]

In 3 years when Matt is a mediocre at best NFL QB and Vince is calling Matt Jones for pointers on his transition to WR, you will all see how pointless this debate is.

...i would agree with this more than anything else these morons are posting. i just don't see any way vy will be a good qb and although i think Leinart will be good, he may turn out to just be average.

[cecil collins]

...i would agree with this more than anything else these morons are posting. i just don't see any way vy will be a good qb and although i think Leinart will be good, he may turn out to just be average.
Oh my, I don't agree with you.

[johngateswhiteley]

Oh my, I don't agree with you.

:lol

[Beer is Good]

If Warner couldn't get it done in AZ, Leinart definitely won't. Warner has a better arm, quicker release, and is just as slow as Leinart. Leinart was a system QB that doesn't have the tools to perform at the NFL level. That's why he went 10th to a team that drafts horribly. If not for the ignorance of the Cardinals he may still be on the board...

[johngateswhiteley]

If Warner couldn't get it done in AZ, Leinart definitely won't. Warner has a better arm, quicker release, and is just as slow as Leinart. Leinart was a system QB that doesn't have the tools to perform at the NFL level. That's why he went 10th to a team that drafts horribly. If not for the ignorance of the Cardinals he may still be on the board...

... :rolleyes , he would have gone 3 to the titans. but i am happy he did not b/c the titans sucks ass. he'll do well in AZ.

[cecil collins]

If Warner couldn't get it done in AZ, Leinart definitely won't. Warner has a better arm, quicker release, and is just as slow as Leinart. Leinart was a system QB that doesn't have the tools to perform at the NFL level. That's why he went 10th to a team that drafts horribly. If not for the ignorance of the Cardinals he may still be on the board...
Now I think you are getting carried away. Kurt Warner sucks, and Leinart will start by week 4 or 5. He could do well, it just depends on the line. He has some weapons.

[Mr Dio]

... :rolleyes , he would have gone 3 to the titans (IF he had been worth a shit!). but i am happy he did not b/c the titans sucks ass. he'll do well in AZ.


Now speaking of moronic posts! :lol

[johngateswhiteley]

Now speaking of moronic posts! :lol

...norm chow and other coaches wanted him, do your homework.

[j-6]

...norm chow and other coaches wanted him, do your homework.
From Peter King (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/08/02/postcard.titans/1.html)


Until today, I'd been delinquent in not meeting offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who came from the USC coordinator job to Nashville last year. Walking the 300 yards from the practice field to the gym with him, I wanted to know the real truth about the Matt Leinart-Vince Young story. Did Chow ever walk into GM Floyd Reese's office, pound his fist on the table and scream, "I want Leinart! Trust me on this -- I coached him for three years, and I know everything about him, and he's going to be a great NFL player!"

No, Chow said, and he smiled. "Of course I like Matt,'' he said. 'How could you you not like him? But we had to look at all three quarterbacks and judge them as an organization -- Matt, Vince and Jay Cutler. We went on the road and spent time with all of them. I think Matt's going to be a great pro. I love him. But we felt great about Vince and the things he can do on the football field. I love working with him. It's been great."

I could tell from his tone that he meant it. If the pick was Leinart, he'd have been thrilled. But he's happy to have Young because of his enormous physical gifts. Chow told him after the draft that no, he never demanded that Tennessee pick Leinart.

"What I've told him is, 'Hey, I don't want you to be an athlete who plays quarterback. I want you to be a quarterback with athleticism.' He's picking up things well. What he hasn't figured out yet is that all the bells and whistles the defense throws at you, all the smoke and mirrors, is mostly unimportant. That's the thing we're working on now."

[johngateswhiteley]

From Peter King (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/08/02/postcard.titans/1.html)


Until today, I'd been delinquent in not meeting offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who came from the USC coordinator job to Nashville last year. Walking the 300 yards from the practice field to the gym with him, I wanted to know the real truth about the Matt Leinart-Vince Young story. Did Chow ever walk into GM Floyd Reese's office, pound his fist on the table and scream, "I want Leinart! Trust me on this -- I coached him for three years, and I know everything about him, and he's going to be a great NFL player!"

No, Chow said, and he smiled. "Of course I like Matt,'' he said. 'How could you you not like him? But we had to look at all three quarterbacks and judge them as an organization -- Matt, Vince and Jay Cutler. We went on the road and spent time with all of them. I think Matt's going to be a great pro. I love him. But we felt great about Vince and the things he can do on the football field. I love working with him. It's been great."

I could tell from his tone that he meant it. If the pick was Leinart, he'd have been thrilled. But he's happy to have Young because of his enormous physical gifts. Chow told him after the draft that no, he never demanded that Tennessee pick Leinart.

"What I've told him is, 'Hey, I don't want you to be an athlete who plays quarterback. I want you to be a quarterback with athleticism.' He's picking up things well. What he hasn't figured out yet is that all the bells and whistles the defense throws at you, all the smoke and mirrors, is mostly unimportant. That's the thing we're working on now."


two things:

1. i don't think Chow demanded Leinart, i think he wanted him....and he did along with others

2. there is no way in hell Chow would tell people after they got vy that he wanted Leinart...are you serious?

[j-6]

two things:

1. i don't think Chow demanded Leinart, i think he wanted him....and he did along with others

2. there is no way in hell Chow would tell people after they got vy that he wanted Leinart...are you serious?

I'm sort of in the minority here when I believe that all three of the top QB's wound up in good situations. Warner is going to pull a Kitna to Leinart's Palmer. VY will benefit from having Chow's expertise and a coach in Fisher that allowed another versatile athlete (McNair) to develop and thrive into a Pro-Bowl QB. Cutler gets to go play for an AFC finalist and a offensive guru like Shanahan that doesn't have a hell of a lot of patience with his starting QB. Jake Plummer doesn't have the luxury to be mediocre with a talent like Jay holding a clipboard.

[Holmes_Fans]

Those don't do justice. Need to watch a VY highlight video to see plays like when he was spun around then with a guy hanging on him he threw a perfect pass.

[Mr Dio]

...norm chow and other coaches wanted him, do your homework.


Yeah, wanted him sooooooo much they picked a better QB in VY. :lol

Maybe someone needs to brush up on the reason(s) a player is drafted by a team.
Hmmmmmm, let me guess..... Because they WANT that player over another player???? Looks like I got the "A" in homework.
Don't embarrass anymore yourself son, this is getting too fun! :lol

[Mr Dio]

two things:

1. i don't think Chow demanded Leinart, i think he wanted him....and he did along with others

2. there is no way in hell Chow would tell people after they got vy that he wanted Leinart...are you serious?


That's just your opinion, do your homework. Get the facts. :lol

[johngateswhiteley]

Yeah, wanted him sooooooo much they picked a better QB in VY. :lol

Maybe someone needs to brush up on the reason(s) a player is drafted by a team.
Hmmmmmm, let me guess..... Because they WANT that player over another player???? Looks like I got the "A" in homework.
Don't embarrass anymore yourself son, this is getting too fun! :lol

wrong. bud adams wanted vy....stop wasting my time.

[leemajors]

wrong. bud adams wanted vy....stop wasting my time.

it's entirely possible that chow is delighted to have vy. he has coached leinart, and tennesse doesn't have the talent and personnel USC had surrounded leinart with. they'll have to rely on the qb more to create (and run like hell), and vy is definitely better at that than leinart.

[Mr Dio]

wrong. bud adams wanted vy....stop wasting my time.


You're WRONG yet AGAIN! :lol
Well, at least you tried.

[Mr Dio]

wrong. bud adams wanted vy....stop wasting my time.


More than Bud Adams wanted VY.
Chow did as well.

[Beer is Good]

Now I think you are getting carried away. Kurt Warner sucks, and Leinart will start by week 4 or 5. He could do well, it just depends on the line. He has some weapons.
Sucks to the tune of a Super Bowl Championship, two MVP awards, etc... that is the dumbest thing you've said yet. Warner sucks now because he doesn't have the O Line and weapons that he had. After the Super Bowl years St Louis lost a lot on the O line and a lot of depth that helped Warner be great. Arizona has a vastly underachieving O line and with the exception of Fitz. not much of a receiving corps that performs well. Bolden is o.k., but not as good as his rookie year indicated. But really, that doesn't matter because with that O Line and Leinarts ducks and lack of mobility you could put 3 TOs and 3 Steve Smiths on that team and they still couldn't get it done.

[Beer is Good]

AND... with a defense that isn't all too great - Matt better get damn used to being behind and having to throw against defenses that know what's coming. He's gonna have a bulls-eye on his chest in that pocket, and someone's gonna earhole him.

[degenerate_gambler]

AND... with a defense that isn't all too great - Matt better get damn used to being behind and having to throw against defenses that know what's coming. He's gonna have a bulls-eye on his chest in that pocket, and someone's gonna earhole him.


Updated: Aug. 1, 2006
Leinart holdout hitting Cards where they hurt


By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

The Cardinals are concerned about not having quarterback Matt Leinart in camp because of a holdout. Although they are willing to give him a contract well above the value of a No. 10 pick, Leinart is trying to secure a deal equal to the value of a potential franchise quarterback. Leinart doesn't want to be slotted slightly above Denver's Jay Cutler, who was one pick behind him.
Naturally, Leinart would like to recoup some of the money he potentially lost by staying at USC for his senior year. Had he come out as a junior, Leinart might have been the first pick in the draft. Mario Williams got the best money in this draft, securing a six-year, $54 million deal that could max out at $62.1 million if he hits all his incentives and escalators.
Settling for a contract in the $20 million to $30 million range that maxes out in the area of $40 million might not work for Leinart. There is no doubt the Cardinals need him in camp. Navarre is still a work in progress. Rohan Davey is nothing special as a backup. Leinart is the backup of this team and the future starter. It hurts having him out of camp, and the longer he is, the more it hurts.

[Beer is Good]

Updated: Aug. 1, 2006
Leinart holdout hitting Cards where they hurt


By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

The Cardinals are concerned about not having quarterback Matt Leinart in camp because of a holdout. Although they are willing to give him a contract well above the value of a No. 10 pick, Leinart is trying to secure a deal equal to the value of a potential franchise quarterback. Leinart doesn't want to be slotted slightly above Denver's Jay Cutler, who was one pick behind him.
Naturally, Leinart would like to recoup some of the money he potentially lost by staying at USC for his senior year. Had he come out as a junior, Leinart might have been the first pick in the draft. Mario Williams got the best money in this draft, securing a six-year, $54 million deal that could max out at $62.1 million if he hits all his incentives and escalators.
Settling for a contract in the $20 million to $30 million range that maxes out in the area of $40 million might not work for Leinart. There is no doubt the Cardinals need him in camp. Navarre is still a work in progress. Rohan Davey is nothing special as a backup. Leinart is the backup of this team and the future starter. It hurts having him out of camp, and the longer he is, the more it hurts.

Somebody tell him that you have to prove yourself first. The Cardinals may be dumb, but even they had to have seen the ducks that boy throws. No Fresno States in the NFL.

[Mr Dio]

Somebody tell him that you have to prove yourself first. The Cardinals may be dumb, but even they had to have seen the ducks that boy throws. No Fresno States in the NFL.


:lol

[Mr Dio]

Updated: Aug. 1, 2006
Leinart holdout hitting Cards where they hurt


By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

The Cardinals are concerned about not having quarterback Matt Leinart in camp because of a holdout. Although they are willing to give him a contract well above the value of a No. 10 pick, Leinart is trying to secure a deal equal to the value of a potential franchise quarterback. Leinart doesn't want to be slotted slightly above Denver's Jay Cutler, who was one pick behind him.
Naturally, Leinart would like to recoup some of the money he potentially lost by staying at USC for his senior year. Had he come out as a junior, Leinart might have been the first pick in the draft. Mario Williams got the best money in this draft, securing a six-year, $54 million deal that could max out at $62.1 million if he hits all his incentives and escalators.
Settling for a contract in the $20 million to $30 million range that maxes out in the area of $40 million might not work for Leinart. There is no doubt the Cardinals need him in camp. Navarre is still a work in progress. Rohan Davey is nothing special as a backup. Leinart is the backup of this team and the future starter. It hurts having him out of camp, and the longer he is, the more it hurts.


VY bested Matt on & off the field! :lol

[degenerate_gambler]

VY bested Matt on & off the field! :lol


Draft day was hilarious when they kept cutting away to a shot of Leinart sitting there in the green room after Vince went 3 and then waiting and waiting...4..5..6..7..8...9...........finally....1 0!!!!!

[cecil collins]

Sucks to the tune of a Super Bowl Championship, two MVP awards, etc... that is the dumbest thing you've said yet. Warner sucks now because he doesn't have the O Line and weapons that he had. After the Super Bowl years St Louis lost a lot on the O line and a lot of depth that helped Warner be great. Arizona has a vastly underachieving O line and with the exception of Fitz. not much of a receiving corps that performs well. Bolden is o.k., but not as good as his rookie year indicated. But really, that doesn't matter because with that O Line and Leinarts ducks and lack of mobility you could put 3 TOs and 3 Steve Smiths on that team and they still couldn't get it done.
I guess Marc Bulger is one of the top QB's ever as well huh. It's the rams system. They were unstoppable for a while, and it wouldn't have mattered if Ryan Leaf were the QB.

[Beer is Good]

I guess Marc Bulger is one of the top QB's ever as well huh. It's the rams system. They were unstoppable for a while, and it wouldn't have mattered if Ryan Leaf were the QB.
Funny, but I don't remember Bulger winning two MVP awards and a Super Bowl. I love the NFL and watch every season, but somehow I just don't remember that. Thank you for making my point for me. It's not just the system. You have to have the weapons, O line, and talent at QB. Warner had an accurate arm, decent deep ball, and quick release. All better than Leinart. Since they both are statues in the pocket, if he can't get the ball out in AZ I don't expect Leinart to either.

[Beer is Good]

One thing I'll give you Cecil is that the addition of Edge with definitely help Leinart or whoever sits behind center for AZ. The only problem there is that Indy's O Line exponentially better than AZ's, and I don't see Edge being able to produce as much behind that O line. Especially if the QB doesn't have the time to get the ball to his receivers - defenses will be able to contain Edge with no problem.

[cecil collins]

Go on thinking that Warner deserved his fucking MVP for all I care. It's pretty easy to agree with all the fox sportscasters. But if you look at the whole situation, and what happened when teams starting figuring out the system, and how warner did in 04(I think) when he had a touchdown, 200 fumbles, and 13 interceptions, before he got hurt. Then with the Giants, he looks like an absolute moron in the pocket because big daddy Pace is no longer there to hold his hand. The guy is a joke, and shouldn't have ever gotten to leave bagging groceries.

[Mr Dio]

...Thank you for making my point for me. It's not just the system. You have to have the weapons, O line, and talent at QB. Warner had an accurate arm, decent deep ball, and quick release. All better than Leinart. Since they both are statues in the pocket, if he can't get the ball out in AZ I don't expect Leinart to either.


I'm glad someone is thinking with their head & realizes that the o-line is very freakin' important.

[gtownspur]

This is a stupid conversation.

I think both Qb's start on a blank slate. Matt leinart is a pro style Qb, and VY is an athletic specimen who has the arm for the NFL. Matt leinart needs to refine his short passing game, and vince young needs to study his plays well. Athleticism only is not a security in the NFL. Everyone is oversized and athletic and you are playing with the best of the best.

Leinart never relied on his athletic abiltiy, and many of you fucks fail to realize that he dismantled OU's stellar defense in 05.

Matt Leinart also picked and slapped UT's secondary, too bad UT had a VY who just flat out overpowered SC's defenders.

Now, what does this have to do with the NFL?

Matt leinart is not a choker like Whorns fans would have you to believe, he's been to the national game 3 times. He's no chris simms. He will do fine if his learning curve is all cracked up to be.

Vy will be decent his first years and has a shot to develop a smart game while he relies on his athleticism.

The fact that VY can be utilized on the feild even if he has a horrible passing day means that he will grow with experience.

[johngateswhiteley]

This is a stupid conversation.

I think both Qb's start on a blank slate. Matt leinart is a pro style Qb, and VY is an athletic specimen who has the arm for the NFL. Matt leinart needs to refine his short passing game, and vince young needs to study his plays well. Athleticism only is not a security in the NFL. Everyone is oversized and athletic and you are playing with the best of the best.

Leinart never relied on his athletic abiltiy, and many of you fucks fail to realize that he dismantled OU's stellar defense in 05.

Matt Leinart also picked and slapped UT's secondary, too bad UT had a VY who just flat out overpowered SC's defenders.

Now, what does this have to do with the NFL?

Matt leinart is not a choker like Whorns fans would have you to believe, he's been to the national game 3 times. He's no chris simms. He will do fine if his learning curve is all cracked up to be.

Vy will be decent his first years and has a shot to develop a smart game while he relies on his athleticism.

The fact that VY can be utilized on the feild even if he has a horrible passing day means that he will grow with experience.


...it is stupid, you're right. however, we only disagree on one thing....vy is going to suck, at least at QB.

[gtownspur]

i hope you're not dismissing VY for the same reason Whorns fans are dismissing Matt.

I think the sky is the limit with VY.

i'll say this, VY is not hanging with the right crowd, so i wouldnt be surprised if he comes out a bust.

[gtownspur]

I think USC's 2004 and 2005 indicate that Matt leinhart is no Chris SImms.

Deep down in the heart of burnt orange, they wouldn't mind a Matt leinhart about this time.

Plus he wouldn't ghetto fabulous bs about loyalty to the program while already dropping his name in the race for the NFL draft.

Face it Whorns, Matt Leihnart has 2 championships and is more loyal to his school than Rags to Riches 50 cent with a good pass ratio. You would love to have a Matt Leinhart in your program, so quit the ovulating and give him his props.

[scott]

This is a stupid conversation.

I think both Qb's start on a blank slate. Matt leinart is a pro style Qb, and VY is an athletic specimen who has the arm for the NFL. Matt leinart needs to refine his short passing game, and vince young needs to study his plays well. Athleticism only is not a security in the NFL. Everyone is oversized and athletic and you are playing with the best of the best.

Leinart never relied on his athletic abiltiy, and many of you fucks fail to realize that he dismantled OU's stellar defense in 05.

Matt Leinart also picked and slapped UT's secondary, too bad UT had a VY who just flat out overpowered SC's defenders.

Now, what does this have to do with the NFL?

Matt leinart is not a choker like Whorns fans would have you to believe, he's been to the national game 3 times. He's no chris simms. He will do fine if his learning curve is all cracked up to be.

Vy will be decent his first years and has a shot to develop a smart game while he relies on his athleticism.

The fact that VY can be utilized on the feild even if he has a horrible passing day means that he will grow with experience.

Nice take - I agree with most of it, but think Matt will only manage to be a middle of the road QB because he lacks top notch arm strength. I'd say he could have a Drew Brees like career. Brees has put up good numbers the last few years, but I think he's a middle of the road QB.

Vince I think will struggle greatly in his transition from dominating physical specimen to having to make numerous reads against complex pro defenses and his accuracy. Everyone keeps pointing to his comp % the last year, but it's very misleading. First (as I've already posted), he was very inconsistent from game to game, and a lot of his throws are off target. Those throws may result in a catch in college after he's bought time for his guys to get wide open - but I doubt it will in the NFL where D-linemen and LBs won't miss tackles and CBs can stay with their guys longer.

[Mr Dio]

OK, so some Butt Fucked Buff fans are still hurt over the VY-analizing recieved in Dec of '05. Get the fuck over it.

Any dumbass that thinks UT would want a Matty over a VY right now is MORONIC. :lol
UT fans would like a seasoned QB, but would rather have VY over Matty or some Rockie Mtn pansie right now or in the future.

Sounds like some idiots are already dismissing UT's QBs as not good enough to win. I wish they'd post that & stop doing a FAIRY dance so I can bump this thread later in the season.

[T-Pain]

Looks like VY has a logo...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/vincerodriguez23/bilde.jpg

CLARKSVILLE — Titans rookie quarterback Vince Young hasn't taken his first NFL snap, but there's one symbol that he's already arrived.

Like Tiger Woods, Young has his own logo. If fans attending training camp look closely at Young's light blue wristband, they can see it for themselves.

"I noticed it,'' running back Chris Brown said with a smile. "Hey, that's big-time. But when you're a high-profile guy like he is, that's what you expect.''

Even Young's not sure he expected a logo so soon. Not long after he signed with Reebok, however, discussions began about designing one exclusively for Young's merchandise. The third overall pick in the NFL Draft, Young signed a $58 million contract with the Titans last week.

Young had input on the look of the sleek logo — inside what looks like a shield is a small V and a big Y.

For now he's showing it off on his wristband, but soon fans will be able to buy shirts, hats and just about everything else imaginable with the VY logo on it.

"It's going to be some nice exclusive stuff, so stay tuned,'' Young said.

And, of course, shoes are in the works. Reebok is coming out with a VY cross trainer shoe.

"Hopefully they'll be the second-most famous shoes in Tennessee, behind Elvis' blue suede shoes,'' said Eddie White, vice president of team properties for Reebok.

White said he hopes VY merchandise will be in stores by the fall.

Young, 23, said he's thrilled with the situation. Teammates who've seen his wristband seem pretty excited, too. Young said he has a shipment of some VY merchandise in the works for teammates who've asked about it.

"It is a dream really. Just looking at Deion Sanders, Junior Seau, guys like that who've had their own thing — Michael Jordan has his own symbol. That is why I worked hard and that is why I have to keep a good image so I can get to the point to have the same thing as those guys," Young said.

"A lot of people look up to them and are inspired by guys like that and I want to be the same. Maybe kids out here can look at me and say, 'Hey I'd like to get my own (logo) one day like that,' and they'll work harder.''

Young is already one of Reebok's most marketable players and his jersey is a hot item nationally, White said.

The rookie is featured in a Reebok ad with Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, and more promotions are in the works.

In addition to Manning and Young, Reebok also counts Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Johnson and Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb as clients.

"But there aren't many players in the entire league that have their own logo,'' White said. "Really, I think Vince is the future of Reebok football. And the faster he develops and plays the better it is for us.

"We are like the Titans. We can't wait to see the future come now. Trust me, we're as excited as Jeff Fisher is about Vince.''

Young is currently No. 2 on the depth chart at quarterback, behind veteran Billy Volek, "but "if Vince starts playing early, there will be great demand, and not only in Tennessee,'' White said. "The guy is certainly a cult figure in Texas.''

Young won't be wearing his logo during games, however. NFL players can wear whatever they want during practices, but on game days they're subject to strict regulations that keep uniforms, well, uniform.

So Young won't be able to wear his shoes during a game. If he wants to wear his VY wristband, he'll have to wear it inside out so the logo doesn't show.

Linebacker Keith Bulluck said he was unaware Young had a logo, but smiled when asked about it.

"It might just be smart business,'' he said. "So many people come after us athletes in so many different ways and at times take advantage. I guess now he has his own little trademark, he's got that staple. Yeah, I guess you could say that's his arrival to the big leagues.''

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...TS01/608020419

[Holmes_Fans]

Matt Leinart also picked and slapped UT's secondary, too bad UT had a VY who just flat out overpowered SC's defenders.



Matt leinart is not a choker like Whorns fans would have you to believe, he's been to the national game 3 times. He's no chris simms. He will do fine if his learning curve is all cracked up to be.
Pretty sure VY slapped around USC's secondary to the tune of 30-40-0 and Matt had only 1 less completion but also had an interception and another interception that was ruled incomplete

[Beer is Good]

Nice take - I agree with most of it, but think Matt will only manage to be a middle of the road QB because he lacks top notch arm strength. I'd say he could have a Drew Brees like career. Brees has put up good numbers the last few years, but I think he's a middle of the road QB.

Vince I think will struggle greatly in his transition from dominating physical specimen to having to make numerous reads against complex pro defenses and his accuracy. Everyone keeps pointing to his comp % the last year, but it's very misleading. First (as I've already posted), he was very inconsistent from game to game, and a lot of his throws are off target. Those throws may result in a catch in college after he's bought time for his guys to get wide open - but I doubt it will in the NFL where D-linemen and LBs won't miss tackles and CBs can stay with their guys longer.

Exactly, Leinart will struggle due to lack of arm strength. I am not dismissing him because he is from USC, I just think that his arm lacks strength and his passes tend to flutter greatly. Without the tight spiral he will not be able to overcome the difference from college to NFL. If he develops a tight spiral, he will have a much better chance.

Regarding both VY and Leinart - they both have a lot of work to do to be ready to even think about starting in the NFL. No question about that. My point is that it is far easier and more realistic to expect a QB to learn NFL defenses and learn how to make passes in coverage, make reads, etc. (what VY needs most) than it is to have a QB increase arm strength and form a tight spiral on his throws. That is almost impossible to teach a QB, and Leinart will have to do both to be successful. Couple that with the AZ O Line and I don't see him succeeding in AZ anytime soon.

[Beer is Good]

I think USC's 2004 and 2005 indicate that Matt leinhart is no Chris SImms.

Deep down in the heart of burnt orange, they wouldn't mind a Matt leinhart about this time.

Plus he wouldn't ghetto fabulous bs about loyalty to the program while already dropping his name in the race for the NFL draft.

Face it Whorns, Matt Leihnart has 2 championships and is more loyal to his school than Rags to Riches 50 cent with a good pass ratio. You would love to have a Matt Leinhart in your program, so quit the ovulating and give him his props.
If you are giving USC half of LSU's Championship when LSU won the BCS title game, then you have to give Auburn half of USC's when USC won the BCS title game. It's either all LSU one year and all USC the next which equals 1, or 1/2 of LSU's and 1/2 split with Auburn which equals 1. Either way, I see 1 Championship - which is still very good.

[Beer is Good]

Go on thinking that Warner deserved his fucking MVP for all I care. It's pretty easy to agree with all the fox sportscasters. But if you look at the whole situation, and what happened when teams starting figuring out the system, and how warner did in 04(I think) when he had a touchdown, 200 fumbles, and 13 interceptions, before he got hurt. Then with the Giants, he looks like an absolute moron in the pocket because big daddy Pace is no longer there to hold his hand. The guy is a joke, and shouldn't have ever gotten to leave bagging groceries.
Did you not watch those two seasons? The guy put up monster numbers and you're trying to dismiss him because he struggled when his weapons and o line diminished? That is my point. A statue QB like Warner and Leinart has to have all sorts of time and protection, and when Warner didn't have that anymore he began rushing his reads and throws and all the pics ensued. It's that way with every immobile QB. Troy Aikman would have been the same way, but the Cowboys were smart enough to keep a very talented line (as well as Emmit blocking from the backfield) to protect him. Now he's in the Hall of Fame.

[cecil collins]

Kurt Warner will be in the Hall of Skanks.

[Mr Dio]

Pretty sure VY slapped around USC's secondary to the tune of 30-40-0 and Matt had only 1 less completion but also had an interception and another interception that was ruled incomplete

:lol

Oops!, someone overlooked that huh? :lol

[Mr Dio]

If you are giving USC half of LSU's Championship when LSU won the BCS title game, then you have to give Auburn half of USC's when USC won the BCS title game. It's either all LSU one year and all USC the next which equals 1, or 1/2 of LSU's and 1/2 split with Auburn which equals 1. Either way, I see 1 Championship - which is still very good.


:lol
Oops!, someone overlooked that too! :lol

[johngateswhiteley]

i hope you're not dismissing VY for the same reason Whorns fans are dismissing Matt.

I think the sky is the limit with VY.

i'll say this, VY is not hanging with the right crowd, so i wouldnt be surprised if he comes out a bust.


...you're the only guy in this thread with some sense, besides scott.

VY
1. vy's athleticism will be nullified in the nfl
2. vy's arm is not accurate (easy to hit open receivers when everyone is worried about you running)
3. vy is going to struggle reading defenses

ML
1. Matt can read defenses
2. Matt is very accurate passer
3. Matt is a pocket passer (translates easier to nfl) and takes snaps under center
4. Matt's arm strength is not lacking, did anybody even watch him play at USC, cause i watched every game of all his years...and he can make every throw on the field

....i won't be rooting for vy to fail, probably contrary to what most think here, i just don't think he'll do well.

[Mr Dio]

I hope Matt does well. He has the Carson Palmer complex to live up to. I don't think he will though.

-----> VY was smart enough to come out & get PAID to the max while Matt stayed & LOST MILLIONS. Sometimes common sense is an accurate a gauge.

-----> VY is in camp with a brilliant mind like Chow while someone is trying to make up for a very stupid mistake & only digging a deeper hole.

[Holmes_Fans]

Not helping himself by holding out either.

[gtownspur]

OK, so some Butt Fucked Buff fans are still hurt over the VY-analizing recieved in Dec of '05. Get the fuck over it.

Any dumbass that thinks UT would want a Matty over a VY right now is MORONIC. :lol
UT fans would like a seasoned QB, but would rather have VY over Matty or some Rockie Mtn pansie right now or in the future.

Sounds like some idiots are already dismissing UT's QBs as not good enough to win. I wish they'd post that & stop doing a FAIRY dance so I can bump this thread later in the season.


as a buff, i knew we were tostada after losing to Iowa state and Nebraska. The buffs did not show up to that game feeling like they accomplished anything. They were the North champs out of luck.

I don't know what else to say other than,...You stupid fat fuck, I gave Vince Mad Props retard! Don't fault me because you couldnt get into UT becuase of your horrible reading comprehension, and now you have an inferiority complex to Ut which makes you want to sac ride them, fuck off and go to the Club forum!

but now that i said that.

VY is awesome, no buttfuck here, just respect for his game.

And btw, i said Ut fans wouldnt mind a Matt type who would stick around till graduation to help out the football program. But that just comes to show how idiotic you really are.


But go on. I expect a "your momma joke" and a reference to your bodily fluids.
And while the rest of this board might find your jokes funny, the real joke as everyone knows is your comprehension and lack of reasoning.

[gtownspur]

Pretty sure VY slapped around USC's secondary to the tune of 30-40-0 and Matt had only 1 less completion but also had an interception and another interception that was ruled incomplete


Are you moron number 2?

How does praising Matt's passing skills denigrate VY's where did you read that?

Thanks for proving my thesis that Longhorn fans feel butthurt for any praise to Leinhart as taking it as a sacreligous statement against VY.

I said both QB's are great. Go back to The VY shrine and utter strange tongues you obsessive VY zealot perv.

[gtownspur]

...you're the only guy in this thread with some sense, besides scott.

VY
1. vy's athleticism will be nullified in the nfl
2. vy's arm is not accurate (easy to hit open receivers when everyone is worried about you running)
3. vy is going to struggle reading defenses

ML
1. Matt can read defenses
2. Matt is very accurate passer
3. Matt is a pocket passer (translates easier to nfl) and takes snaps under center
4. Matt's arm strength is not lacking, did anybody even watch him play at USC, cause i watched every game of all his years...and he can make every throw on the field

....i won't be rooting for vy to fail, probably contrary to what most think here, i just don't think he'll do well.


Heres the crux of the argument.

The reason Vy can throw those zippy passes is simply because he's mostly outside the pocket with the reciever at a 10 to 2 o clock angle from the front of his body 6-15 yards away. I mean even Mr. Dio could zip a ball accurately to his buddy if his buddy was right across from him. It doesn't take any skill since you are using the majority of your arm and back muscles to throw some heat into that ball.

The real challenge is staying inside the pocket while you have to throw the ball at high speeds at weird angles in locations with having 2-3 defenders near the path of delivery. And that what makes Matt's passing different and extraordinary from VY.

VY can run out of the pocket and position himself better to where he's passing all while drawing defenders away from his reciever and thus being credited for having mad passing skills.

When Vy is in the Nfl, he will not have the same time to position himself in front of the passers, and the secondary will not respect his running game like the college ones will.

The key to containing VY in the nfl will to make him stay inside the pocket by having a man to man pass rush, and forcing him to make split decisions. Let him run all he wants. He wont last long if he does.

[Mr Dio]

as a (Buttfucked)buff, i knew we were tostada after losing to .....

I don't know what else to say other than,...You stupid fat fuck, I gave Vince Mad Props retard! Don't fault me because you couldnt get into UT becuase of your horrible reading comprehension, and now you have an inferiority complex to Ut which makes you want to sac ride them, fuck off and go to the Club forum!

:lmao
So tell me how you really feel?
Call me the dentist my little puta, since I obviously hit a nerve. :lol



But go on. I expect a "your momma joke" and a reference to your bodily fluids.
And while the rest of this board might find your jokes funny, the real joke as everyone knows is your comprehension and lack of reasoning.

Nah, the rest of the board is just laughing @ how you try to come-off as a real know-it-all but you can't spell BECAUSE.
I am willing to bet that being the dumbass 'tard that you are you try to play it off as a typo.
Wow, That Buff Ed comes in handy huh? :lol
Becuz, becuas, beekuuz.... :lol

[Mr Dio]

Hurry up & reply Gaytown, I gaught sum tings two doo. :lol

[gtownspur]

That's right, go back to your night shift at your temp agency job you dolt.

Go spill all the Yo moma jokes to your boss, maybe he'll hire you permanently and you can call your miserable life a success.

Adios puta.

[johngateswhiteley]

That's right, go back to your night shift at your temp agency job you dolt.

Go spill all the Yo moma jokes to your boss, maybe he'll hire you permanently and you can call your miserable life a success.

Adios puta.

...whew, ouch. nicely played. anyway, how come nobody else can see that vy will suck in the nfl but you and i? its strange.

[Beer is Good]

Heres the crux of the argument.

The reason Vy can throw those zippy passes is simply because he's mostly outside the pocket with the reciever at a 10 to 2 o clock angle from the front of his body 6-15 yards away. I mean even Mr. Dio could zip a ball accurately to his buddy if his buddy was right across from him. It doesn't take any skill since you are using the majority of your arm and back muscles to throw some heat into that ball.

The real challenge is staying inside the pocket while you have to throw the ball at high speeds at weird angles in locations with having 2-3 defenders near the path of delivery. And that what makes Matt's passing different and extraordinary from VY.

VY can run out of the pocket and position himself better to where he's passing all while drawing defenders away from his reciever and thus being credited for having mad passing skills.

When Vy is in the Nfl, he will not have the same time to position himself in front of the passers, and the secondary will not respect his running game like the college ones will.

The key to containing VY in the nfl will to make him stay inside the pocket by having a man to man pass rush, and forcing him to make split decisions. Let him run all he wants. He wont last long if he does.


I saw VY make plenty of accurate throws from the pocket in college. He and Leinart can throw from the pocket, but both are not ready to read defenses and make plays at the NFL level. They both have to learn how to do that, and I think both of them will. But I think VY has the stronger arm and with more work will prove to be better.

[johngateswhiteley]

I saw VY make plenty of accurate throws from the pocket in college. He and Leinart can throw from the pocket, but both are not ready to read defenses and make plays at the NFL level. They both have to learn how to do that, and I think both of them will. But I think VY has the stronger arm and with more work will prove to be better.

:nope

[Mr Dio]

...whew, ouch. nicely played. anyway, how come nobody else can see that vy will suck in the nfl but you and i? its strange.


Gay Lovers have a way of seeing things the exact same way in order to stay together.
Nice way to suck a dick JonGayPimpley. :lol

[Mr Dio]

I saw VY make plenty of accurate throws from the pocket in college. He and Leinart can throw from the pocket, but both are not ready to read defenses and make plays at the NFL level. They both have to learn how to do that, and I think both of them will. But I think VY has the stronger arm and with more work will prove to be better.


Some common sense amidst the 2 Gay Boys (GayTown & JonGayWhitey) & I.

[Mr Dio]

That's right, go back to your night shift at your temp agency job you dolt.

Go spill all the Yo moma jokes to your boss, maybe he'll hire you permanently and you can call your miserable life a success.

Adios puta.


Your Mom is my temp job.
But as big & hairy as her ass is I may have to go full time on her. :lol
They think the Amazon rain forest is thick & hard to manage, they should see your mom's pubic region. After she got her dick cut off the stump grew back with tree bark. :lol

[gtownspur]

Your Mom is my temp job.
But as big & hairy as her ass is I may have to go full time on her. :lol
They think the Amazon rain forest is thick & hard to manage, they should see your mom's pubic region. After she got her dick cut off the stump grew back with tree bark. :lol


:lol , this is too funny. So in your story you claim to know my mom and fuck her, allwhile she is endowed with a big tree bark dick to go along with it.

I guess the real question that doesn't need to be asked, whose the man in that relationship?:lmao, we all know it's not you.:rollin

my you have a vivid imagination, i doubt you came up with that material. You probably heard it from your temp agency boss dude who you were sucking near the fax room.


Look you gay fat Vince Young concubine, have a nice day and have your rectum enjoy your burnt orange life sized Vince Young dildo.

adios puta.

Oh and btw, tell your dad i'll bring his dentures over to his house tonight, and he owes me a blowjob. THe last time, he vomited my load and saved it for your mom's facial lotion.

[Mr Dio]

So you do like men!
I knew I could easily coax it from you...As easy as your hairy cunt of a mom was to coax out of her leather panties. :lol

[Mr Dio]

:lol , this is too funny.


my you have a vivid imagination, i doubt you came up with that material.
Actually, it rolls off the cuff like your whore of a mom rolls down the street..very easily. :lol :spin :lol

Look you gay fat Vince Young concubine, have a nice day and have your rectum enjoy your burnt orange life sized Vince Young dildo.
Did I hit a nerve Gaytown? :lol

[gtownspur]

So you do like men!
I knew I could easily coax it from you...As easy as your hairy cunt of a mom's
dick was to coax out of her leather panties. :lol


That's funny, why is it in all your sodomy stories about other peoples mom's do they all happen to have penis's.

That little freudian slip up just proves how much of a closet fairy you are.


Step out of the closet thou Gayest man the fairest prancing around like a Tinker bell, Thy Vince Youngs dick beckons you. :lol

[gtownspur]

That's hillarious,

Yo mama jokes are as old as dirt, but i never met anyone like Mr dio who douses his jokes about other peoples mommas having male genitalia, alwhile claiming to sleep with them.

It's empirical, Mr Dio is a closet homo. Let's all respect his preferences. "Coming out" must be a hard thing to do.

[Mr Dio]

Oh, I came alright. You think your dad's face had Oil of Olay on it? :lol I don't know who sucks dick better, your mom, dad or you?
Who do you think?

[Mr Dio]

That's funny, why is it in all your sodomy stories about other peoples mom's do they all happen to have penis's.
Becasue of your family's genes, you're blaming me for you having hermaphrodite parents? :lol


That little freudian slip up just proves how much of a closet fairy you are.
Hey, you take it in the ass, I only pitch. :lol
Don't tell me you're going to deny it! Talk about closet case.

[gtownspur]

I guess we can go back and forth on the gay daddy buttfuck joke fest all day, but i have more important things to do.

It seems like once i tell you off, you can't stop with the lame jokes. I guess it was i who hit the nerve.

[Beer is Good]

:nope
I watched every game VY played at UT. I played football all of my life, dad coaches football, and I can dissect a game piece by piece. I know what I saw, and I saw VY make very nice throws from the pocket under pressure situations. The TD pass to Limas Sweed that canned OSU was from the pocket and was a difficult touch pass down the left sideline. Perfect timing required. You do not know what you are talking about as evidenced by your statements on this forum.