Expectations of Jackie Butler

[Spurologist]

People might be thinking that is a good fit for him. He should be able to come in and post up double doubles time and time again. That might be great but too unrealistic. Butler has to get adjusted to a new environment, understand the coachs game plan and most of all get in tune with his teammates.

Handling passes in the lane should be an upgrade. His gerth inside can create a lot of space away from his defenders and he seems to have massive hands to be able to corral hard, low, high, and tricky (behind the back etc) passes. Just for this, tp's assist average will probably be at 7 consistently throughout the season. God knows how many great passes Nazr fumbled.

His shooting is bit of a concern for me. The few games I saw him play, he hardly took any outside shots. So his shot is either shaky or he'd rather not step outside. I've read he has a decent shot so I look for him step out on occasion to space the floor. Timmay will be clogging that lane the entire season.

He's also very agile for his size. Hopefully that agility will get him some rebounds and shot blocks.

So my expectations are for him to have a presence on the court. He needs to settle in and find a way to help the team whether its hustle, points, blocks, REBOUNDS, whatever.

My numbers:

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/jackie_butler.jpg

8.1 pts
7.8 Rebounds
1.1 blks

Thoughts??

[JamStone]

Rasho averaged 4.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 bpg last season in 18.9 mpg.
Nazr averaged 6.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg, .61 bpg last season in 17.4 mpg.


I suspect Jackie Butler will split time with Elson, Horry, and Bonner. I don't think Oberto will play much. Butler might play 18-24 mpg.

In those minutes, I think he'll be solid if he averages:

6.5 ppg
5.0 rpg
.75 bpg

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think Butler will even play 10mpg in the first half of the season (unless he goes nuts in camp/preseason).

By the end of the season, I'd expect he's playing 15-18 mpg and averaging 6 and 5, while playing good D.

In future years, hopefully he'll average 12 and 8.

[exstatic]

8p/5r

[Solid D]

15' and in. He's not a shooter. He's a scorer.

It's going to be difficult to project but I suspect he might have Malik-type numbers, Malik's first couple of years as a Spur. Probably not more than 6 ppg and 4 rpg.

He'll have his moments against certain teams where he can get off with a 15-18 point night.

[Spurologist]

I was hoping he would get somewhere around 20-25 mins a game. Without that time, my expectations are unrealistic.

I even remember Rasho playing really well when he came to the spurs.

[ZStomp]

5/4... maybe....

[dav4463]

a player who comes into his own as a solid contributor on a championship team.

[violentkitten]

don't suck.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

His shooting is bit of a concern for me. The few games I saw him play, he hardly took any outside shots. So his shot is either shaky or he'd rather not step outside. I've read he has a decent shot so I look for him step out on occasion to space the floor. Timmay will be clogging that lane the entire season.

I hope so.

But I haven't read that anywhere, that would be a pleasant surprised though. A little Elton Brand'esque jumper.

[ro_50]

I am thinking 4 and 4 in the first year because it's going to take him some time to acclimate to the offense.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

4 and 4?


I'd go with 8 and 6. Same as Elson. If between them we get 16 points and 12 boards I'd be happy.

[Guru of Nothing]

6 pts and 9 rbs

[ChumpDumper]

If he gets five and four I'll buy furry spurry a Jackie Butler jersey.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I want him to be better than Nasho

[Please_dont_ban_me]

If he gets five and four I'll buy furry spurry a Jackie Butler jersey.

Are you kidding me?

Give me those odds, I'll rub your nuts for a week if he doesn't get 5 and 4.

[ducks]

who would not

[ducks]

I want him to be better than Nasho
who would not :lol

[furry_spurry]

I was hoping he would get somewhere around 20-25 mins a game. Without that time, my expectations are unrealistic.

I even remember Rasho playing really well when he came to the spurs.
But Rasho was a 27 year old player coming off two full seasons starting every game and used to playing 30 minutes a night. Butler is a 21 year old guy who has never started a single NBA game in his life and only played in 58 of them- averaging 13 minutes per game.


If he gets five and four I'll buy furry spurry a Jackie Butler jersey.
I actually like Butler as a project, but I think the Spurs also need someone for this season- and could have gone a little over the luxury tax- spent a couple more million in payroll for someone better than Elson.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Summofabitch

Who deleted my post? That was funny dammit!

[Rynospursfan]

I don't think Butler will even play 10mpg in the first half of the season (unless he goes nuts in camp/preseason).

By the end of the season, I'd expect he's playing 15-18 mpg and averaging 6 and 5, while playing good D.

In future years, hopefully he'll average 12 and 8.


I agree I am much more excited about his potential than what he will do for us next year. I just basically want him to put up the numbers he did last year, only in like 80+ games.

[timvp]

If Butler averages 7 and 5 next year, it'll be a successful season.

[2centsworth]

Since I'm a Spurs homer, easily 10 and 6.

[dbestpro]

7 and 4

[picnroll]

If it works out he should be one of the offensive center pieces when Duncan is off the floor so if Butler averages as low as some of you project Spurs are pretty well screwed.

[Obstructed_View]

If Butler averages 7 and 5 next year, it'll be a successful season.
If Butler averages 7 and 5, his signing will be the steal of the year, and Isiah will be fired.

[picnroll]

If Butler averages 7 and 5, his signing will be the steal of the year, and Isiah will be fired.
Compared to last year if Butler shows no improvement in play whatsoever but simply gets 20 minutes of floor time instead of 13.5 minutes he'll average 7 and 5 based on last years numbers.

[AFBlue]

Compared to last year if Butler shows no improvement in play whatsoever but simply gets 20 minutes of floor time instead of 13.5 minutes he'll average 7 and 5 based on last years numbers.


Actually he'll get almost 8 (7.8) and 5 (4.9). Which wouldn't be bad at all. But my guess is that the Spurs harp more on his defense and rebounding, so he could average 8 and 6 IF he plays 20 min. That's the problem.

Not even Rasho or Nazr played 20 minutes last season. My guess is he averages somewhere around 17 minutes b/c that's what Nazr averaged and he was a reserve for most of the year. At 17 minutes, his numbers last year translate to 6.7 and 4.2. Compensating for the emphasis on defense and rebounding I'll say 6 1/2 ppg avg, and 5 rpg avg. Dunno about the blocks.

Oh and while I suspect that Bonner will take a couple minutes away from the two centers, my guess is he takes most of his minutes from Big Shot...to keep him fresh throughout the season.

[AFBlue]

18/11

Guess you think Renaldo Balkman will avg about the same? And maybe 8 assists?

[AFBlue]

I am Renaldo Balkman.

I will Average 16/12/3/4


If you're Renaldo Balkman, why isn't your "team" the New York Knicks?

16 games, 12 minutes, 3 fouls, and 4 times introduced as Rolando Blackman.

No man, seriously I like "your" hustle and defense, but think that Isaiah Thomas will play his "contracts" not his hard workers, in an effort to get the most out of them and/or build them up for trade fodder.

[Rick Von Braun]

He doesn't play much the first year. Probably around 10-12 minutes at best.

He gets 4pts 3rbs in limited minutes.

[AFBlue]

He doesn't play much the first year. Probably around 10-12 minutes at best.

He gets 4pts 3rbs in limited minutes.


Who gets his minutes if he only plays 10? Does Francisco get 30? The two "equal" centers in the past have split even pretty close to 20 mpg each.

[AFBlue]

Not Funny, Its 16 points 12 boards 3 assists and 4 steals per game. Did you see me during Summer League, Me and Nate dawg were lighting up on fire.
My hustle work is going to get me major playing time.

Rooting for "you", because there's nothing I like better than seeing an over-inflated "contract" sit the bench while real players run the floor. Having said that, it RARELY ever happens. So we'll see....

[picnroll]

Rebounding-wise last year the per minute defensive rebounding production of the Spurs' bigs:

Nazr- .299
Duncan - .233
Horry - .143
Oberto - .133
Rasho - .126

The additons per minute defensive rebounding are:

Butler - .244
Elson - .215

Rebounding isn't everything but from a rebounding standpoint the more time Butler and Elson spend on the floor and the less time Horry and Oberto spend on the floor that part of the Spurs' defense will improve.

[Solid D]

Watch and Learn.

With your FT shooting, you should be a Spur. What do you shoot, like .250 from the line? Dude you shoot like Marcus Bryant.

[Extra Stout]

Anything less than Third-Team All-NBA and Butler is a bust.

[AFBlue]

Dont play pity game on me, little man.

Over-inflated contract? Have you ever seen me play? your just like the rest of them, Just because you didnt hear of me, does not mean I am not an All-star. In South Carolina, I dominated the game, I dominated the NIT. Boy, go watch some tapes of me, before you start underestimating me.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S8M5TCUHxNA&mode=related&search=Renaldo%20Balkman

Watch and Learn.

A "contract" is a player who doesn't deserve a name becaus he's defined by his contract and he doesn't live up to it. Steve Francis is a "contract", like most of the other players on "your" team.

Secondly, don't call me "boy" or "little man"....you don't know me. And I'll continue to underestimate "you", like every other person outside of the Knicks FO until "you" prove me wrong. And if "you" do live up the numbers you suggest, I'll not only personally apologize to this name on this forum...I'll drive to Carolina in the off-season and congratulate you. Fair enough?

[El_Mago]

Wow....people on here are really arguing like this kid really is Renaldo.

Props to Renaldo though....making people believe it's really him.

Sad.

[AFBlue]

Wow....people on here are really arguing like this kid really is Renaldo.

Props to Renaldo though....making people believe it's really him.

Sad.

Actually I don't think it's him, notice how I said "you" in quotes. It's sarcastic, fecitious.

And if he averaged those numbers this year, I would seriously drive to Carolina (not that far from me), congratulate him, and probably start the Ronaldo Balkman fan club....that's how much I don't believe it's him, and don't believe he'll put up those numbers.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

His end of the year averages will be around 5 and 5, but towards the end of the season he'll start finding his stride and will average 8 and 7 for the last month or two.

[AFBlue]

His end of the year averages will be around 5 and 5, but towards the end of the season he'll start finding his stride and will average 8 and 7 for the last month or two.


Yeah back to the Jackie Butler thing, I think you're right on track, but I'd hope for just a little bit better production from both stats. Your #'s are pretty realistic though.

[Mr. Body]

I'd say 8 points, 5.5 rebounds, and 1 block in 20 minutes a game.

[Solid D]

Wow....people on here are really arguing like this kid really is Renaldo.

Props to Renaldo though....making people believe it's really him.

Sad.

I think PHAT TONY was probably just playing along...don't you think?

[Solid D]

Actually I don't think it's him, notice how I said "you" in quotes. It's sarcastic, fecitious.

And if he averaged those numbers this year, I would seriously drive to Carolina (not that far from me), congratulate him, and probably start the Ronaldo Balkman fan club....that's how much I don't believe it's him, and don't believe he'll put up those numbers.

Oops, sorry I didn't see your response PT.

[thispego]

06-07 NBA's Most Improved Player

[freemeat]

I don't think his average for the season will be indicitive of his performance in either the first half nor the second. Of course he will take some time to get used to the system (and Pop will probably bench him for entire games occassionally), btu he should get into the type of form we need to be ready for the the playoffs...which means his numbers should gradually increase with time. I'm more interested in hearing what people think his playoff averages will be. I'm guessing overall season around 5 and 6 and playoffs, if he becomes the starter, around 8 and 9...He's young and should be able to go the distance (82 game season and 4 rounds).

[wildbill2u]

I Hope that Larry Brown's assessment of Butler will prove out and he'll really develop into a good player for us. Brown's never been known as a booster of young players or rookies. He let this kid play more in one game than Darko Milicik in a whole season.

Maybe that tells us something.

[Spurologist]

I Hope that Larry Brown's assessment of Butler will prove out and he'll really develop into a good player for us. Brown's never been known as a booster of young players or rookies. He let this kid play more in one game than Darko Milicik in a whole season.

Maybe that tells us something.

Where's the link to where Brown actually provided a supposedly good assessment of Butler or is it because you think Brown probably talked him over with his buddy pop.



In Detroit Brown had his lineup set, which meant Milicic was stuck to the bench and relegated to the human victory cigar. In NY, he was just playing the lottery with his starting lineup. :lol

This guy would have got prime time minutes under LB last year

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-08/08/xinsrc_b3f3ba42c9a511d7b21c000103134420_bateer.jpg

[wildbill2u]

Where's the link to where Brown actually provided a supposedly good assessment of Butler or is it because you think Brown probably talked him over with his buddy pop.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/434949p-366467c.html

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA071506.1C.BKNspurs.butler.1b6a669.html

"Nothing is going to surprise me what they do," Glass said. "It's a very weird situation. At least, on some type of list, Jackie is behind Eddy and Jerome. But he also was playing ahead of them, at times, last season."

Former Knicks coach Larry Brown, who is represented by Glass' father, Joe, favored Butler over Curry and James by the end of last season, often playing him in the fourth quarter.

"Everybody said Jackie was Larry's guy, but (Knicks president and coach) Isiah (Thomas) is the one who signed him out of the CBA," Glass said. "He gave (Butler) a chance, and we're grateful for that."

Since LB and Pop are so close, and LB is now not on the Knicks staff, I'd be
very surprised if LB didn't give Pop a complete advisory on his estimation of Butler's talent, would you?

[Mavs<Spurs]

By the end of the season, per 40 minutes, I expect a near double double.

:lol :lol :lol


If we get that, then


:elephant :elephant :elephant

[Obstructed_View]

Much like the centers we had this year, I expect him to be in EVERY FUCKING PLAYOFF GAME.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i wonder if his better than diop?

[AFBlue]

i wonder if his better than diop?

If he sheds all his fatty pounds like Diop did before the start of the season, I think he could be a much bigger offensive impact than Diop. Defensively, I'm not sure because that's kind of Diop's thing.

[ChumpDumper]

He's already better than Diop will ever be on offense. He'll have to learn defense - fortunately, that seems to be easier to do as a Spur.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i expect him to post up what wilcox was padding after being traded to sonics.

[fatlever]

Jackie Butler averaged 9.3 pts, and 5.5 rbs in 21 mpg during the month of March on a team that was in complete chaos. In the Spurs system, where he'll have a more well defined role he should average 12 and 7 in about 28 minutes per game if Pop likes his attitude and game. The nicest thing about Jackie is that it should allow you guys to rest Duncan and still have a low post threat. Jackie and Elson were a nice combination to have especially against the Mavs. Elson brings a different set of skills being a mobile utility big that can run and guard bigs on the outside. Remember how much he harassed KG in the playoffs a few years back?

[Texas_Ranger]

he will be so good as K-Will in 02/03 season.

[fatlever]

Kevin Willis was geriatric and averaged 3 point and 2 rebounds that season.....shows that someone can post 776 times and still be clueless

[spurster]

I hope Butler/Elson/Bonner will be at least as good as Rasho/Nazr. Otherwise, this bboard will be very snippy.

[Obstructed_View]

Compared to last year if Butler shows no improvement in play whatsoever but simply gets 20 minutes of floor time instead of 13.5 minutes he'll average 7 and 5 based on last years numbers.
If he produces like that and only plays 20 minutes a game, either Elson is going to the all-star game or Pop should be fired.

[wildbill2u]

Not very many people on this board were thrilled with our two centers last year--regardless of how much they played or how well or how poorly.

This was not a good year for FAs at ANY position.

Given the lack of talent at the center position that was out there this year, I'd say we did OK from the git-go-- and maybe did better than that if either guy works into something better than Rashslow or NO-Hands.

If we wind up with about the same talent at a discount price, we're a lot better off for the future--or if Pop can come up with some miracle trade later.