NPR: Grief and Anger Follow Deadly Qana Bombing listen up!!

[ShackO]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5593622

[Yonivore]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5593622

Why were the vast majority of those killed women and children? Could it be that the menfolk were outside firing rockets into Israel trying to kill Israeli women and children?

Why is there a discrepancy between the time of the bombing and the time of the building collapse? It is trickling out of Qana (no thanks to the media) that there were several hours -- and a secondary explosion (probably of Hezbollah ordnance) -- between the initial bombing by the IAF and the collapse of the building. Plenty of time in which to evacuate those who were later buried in the rubble of the collapse.

I don't get the anger and outrage at Israel. Why not be pissed at the Hezbollah who have been firing rockets from this position in Qana since pretty much the beginning of hostilities?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why were the vast majority of those killed women and children? Could it be that the menfolk were outside firing rockets into Israel trying to kill Israeli women and children?

Why is there a discrepancy between the time of the bombing and the time of the building collapse? It is trickling out of Qana (no thanks to the media) that there were several hours -- and a secondary explosion (probably of Hezbollah ordnance) -- between the initial bombing by the IAF and the collapse of the building. Plenty of time in which to evacuate those who were later buried in the rubble of the collapse.

I don't get the anger and outrage at Israel. Why not be pissed at the Hezbollah who have been firing rockets from this position in Qana since pretty much the beginning of hostilities?


There should be outrage at both sides. Hezbollah bears some responsibility for these deaths as well as Israel should for bombing the building and not the actual site where the rockets were fired from.

[Yonivore]

There should be outrage at both sides. Hezbollah bears some responsibility...
Hezbollah bears full responsibility for the deaths according to previously understood international concepts of armed conflict.


...for these deaths as well as Israel should for bombing the building and not the actual site where the rockets were fired from.
The delayed collapse and secondary explosion -- as well as intelligence -- indicated there was a large weapons cache in that building. How as Israel to know that Hezbollah had stashed over 50 civilians in the basement?

Especially since Israel had over the previous days dropped leaflets begging civilians to flee North of the Litani River because they were going to bomb the crap out of Hezbollah South of the Litani.

What no one seems to get is the Hezbollah doesn't give a shit whose civilians get killed. All civilian deaths work to their favor.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hezbollah bears full responsibility for the deaths according to previously understood international concepts of armed conflict.


The delayed collapse and secondary explosion -- as well as intelligence -- indicated there was a large weapons cache in that building. How as Israel to know that Hezbollah had stashed over 50 civilians in the basement?

Especially since Israel had over the previous days dropped leaflets begging civilians to flee North of the Litani River because they were going to bomb the crap out of Hezbollah South of the Litani.

What no one seems to get is the Hezbollah doesn't give a shit whose civilians get killed. All civilian deaths work to their favor.



Well then you nor anyone on your side should not be surpised at those folks who were sitting this fight out now choose to join it. I find it confusing when I hear the argument that these people were warned and they needed to get out. If they had no cars or gas and had children where were they supposed to go? How ere they supposed to get there? I have a 3yr old and if I was told to get out of my neighborhhod should Im just pick and walk to no where with my 3 yr old in tow? Without water? food?

[Yonivore]

Well then you nor anyone on your side should not be surpised at those folks who were sitting this fight out now choose to join it.
Yeah, I guess we'll find out who's with the terrorists alright.


I find it confusing when I hear the argument that these people were warned and they needed to get out. If they had no cars or gas and had children where were they supposed to go? How ere they supposed to get there? I have a 3yr old and if I was told to get out of my neighborhhod should Im just pick and walk to no where with my 3 yr old in tow? Without water? food?
I admit, it's a quandry. However, I'm not sure the Hezbollah would have allowed the IDF to go door to door evacuating innocent civilians.

Besides, it is being speculated (and, you're right, I don't know for sure -- and may never know) that those killed in the building were related to Hezbollah terrorists who were manning rocket launchers in the vicinity. And, you can't tell me the Hezbollah don't have ways of evacuating their families if they choose to.

[ShackO]

Why were the vast majority of those killed women and children? Could it be that the menfolk were outside firing rockets into Israel trying to kill Israeli women and children? That is ridiculous and you know it…… It is real simple… You can believe what you want or what the rest of the entire world is saying…….. Hell even Israel acknowledges the deaths of those innocent children why can’t you?????



Why is there a discrepancy between the time of the bombing and the time of the building collapse? It is trickling out of Qana (no thanks to the media) that there were several hours -- and a secondary explosion (probably of Hezbollah ordnance) -- between the initial bombing by the IAF and the collapse of the building. Plenty of time in which to evacuate those who were later buried in the rubble of the collapse.WTF???? Israel bombs the place and you are grasping for straws to justify it..Was the bombing by Israel a good thing for Lebanon or Israel?? If pissbalah went in and strangled some of the children themselves would that justify the initial bombing in your mind??? You seem like a fairly reasonable person so I assume you would understand that two wrongs don’t make a right and what may have transpired after the initial attack on the innocent ppl there can not be justified by something “someone else (MAY) have done”…

I don't get the anger and outrage at Israel. Why not be pissed at the Hezbollah who have been firing rockets from this position in Qana since pretty much the beginning of hostilities?

Personally I am….. I would be as happy as any Israeli if everyone of pizzbalahs fighters gets martyred today……

But my conscience can not turn a blind eye to the group punishment of innocent ppl that have nothing to do with the conflict and are helpless to stop it….

Killing innocent civilians in Israel is a tragedy……. Killing 10 times more in Lebanon then is 10 times as tragic…………….. :bang

[Yonivore]

That is ridiculous and you know it…… It is real simple… You can believe what you want or what the rest of the entire world is saying…….. Hell even Israel acknowledges the deaths of those innocent children why can’t you?????
When did I say the women and children weren't innocent? I merely suggested their presence there wasn't necessarily and undesirable consequence for Hezbollah.


WTF???? Israel bombs the place and you are grasping for straws to justify it..Was the bombing by Israel a good thing for Lebanon or Israel?? If pissbalah went in and strangled some of the children themselves would that justify the initial bombing in your mind??? You seem like a fairly reasonable person so I assume you would understand that two wrongs don’t make a right and what may have transpired after the initial attack on the innocent ppl there can not be justified by something “someone else (MAY) have done”…
Did Israel know there were women and children in the building? No. But, they did know there were terrorists and weapons in and around the building. What if they hadn't bombed it and one of the rockets later fired from there were to have hit an Israeli shelter and killed 56 women and children? Would the world have been similarly outraged? I doubt it.


Personally I am….. I would be as happy as any Israeli if everyone of pizzbalahs fighters gets martyred today……

But my conscience can not turn a blind eye to the group punishment of innocent ppl that have nothing to do with the conflict and are helpless to stop it….

Killing innocent civilians in Israel is a tragedy……. Killing 10 times more in Lebanon then is 10 times as tragic…………….. :bang
Israel is targeting military targets. Hezbollah is lobbing rockets, indiscriminately, into Israel with the hopes of killing a Jew and, on top of that, they don't care if the civilians around them get killed either. In fact, it helps their cause -- as people like you are proving.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

When did I say the women and children weren't innocent? I merely suggested their presence there wasn't necessarily and undesirable consequence for Hezbollah.


Did Israel know there were women and children in the building? No. But, they did know there were terrorists and weapons in and around the building. What if they hadn't bombed it and one of the rockets later fired from there were to have hit an Israeli shelter and killed 56 women and children? Would the world have been similarly outraged? I doubt it.


Israel is targeting military targets. Hezbollah is lobbing rockets, indiscriminately, into Israel with the hopes of killing a Jew and, on top of that, they don't care if the civilians around them get killed either. In fact, it helps their cause -- as people like you are proving.
explain to me how you know they didn't know? because they certainly did know about the UN bunker and yet fired in its vecinity anyway because there were enemy targets close. Right now, its looking like Israel just doesn't give a fuck. I don't see good on either side. Hezbollah should be eliminated yes, but at what cost? certainly not the cost Israel is willing to pay. I definately think Israel should be held as accountable for the 37 children dead as Hezbollah for all the Israeli innocent who have died. Israel is NOT beyond reproach.

[Yonivore]

explain to me how you know they didn't know? because they certainly did know about the UN bunker and yet fired in its vecinity anyway because there were enemy targets close. Right now, its looking like Israel just doesn't give a fuck. I don't see good on either side. Hezbollah should be eliminated yes, but at what cost? certainly not the cost Israel is willing to pay. I definately think Israel should be held as accountable for the 37 children dead as Hezbollah for all the Israeli innocent who have died. Israel is NOT beyond reproach.
If Hezbollah is co-locating with civilians, they're responsible. Period. Over 150 rockets have been lauched from Qana since hostilities began, that building was an ordnance depot and a launch site, therefore, a legitimate military target.

How was Israel to know they had stuffed the basement with civilians? Sure, it could be guessed because, well, this is the despicable Hezbollah...but, seriously, were they just to let them continue launching rockets from that site until maybe one found an Israel bunker with a similar number of civilians and, then, it would have been okay to obliterate it?

[ShackO]

When did I say the women and children weren't innocent? I merely suggested their presence there wasn't necessarily and undesirable consequence for Hezbollah.


Did Israel know there were women and children in the building? No. But, they did know there were terrorists and weapons in and around the building. What if they hadn't bombed it and one of the rockets later fired from there were to have hit an Israeli shelter and killed 56 women and children? Would the world have been similarly outraged? I doubt it.


Israel is targeting military targets. Hezbollah is lobbing rockets, indiscriminately, into Israel with the hopes of killing a Jew and, on top of that, they don't care if the civilians around them get killed either. In fact, it helps their cause -- as people like you are proving.

Well thanks for all the credit but I think the actions of olmert’s Israel has provided their enemies with all the ammo they will need to paint them as barbarians and unscrupulous murders of Arab women and children………

Neither you or I know what Israel knew @ the time….. And as of yet it has not been proven that there were weapons in the place they “assumed” was vacant……

Good intentions and bad assumptions seem to be adding up to lots of dead and innocent ppl…:shootme

[ShackO]

If Hezbollah is co-locating with civilians, they're responsible. SO ISRAEL KILLS THEM AND IT IS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT... Period. Over 150 rockets have been lauched from Qana since hostilities began, that building was an ordnance depot and a launch site, therefore, a legitimate military target. :nope How do you know??? The investigation by many sides has just begun........

How was Israel to know they had stuffed the basement with civilians? Sure, it could be guessed I guess you answered you own question...because, well, this is the despicable Hezbollah...but, seriously, were they just to let them continue launching rockets from that site until maybe one found an Israel bunker with a similar number of civilians and, then, it would have been okay to obliterate it?

[Yonivore]

The investigation has just begun yet you are prepared to blame Israel for the deaths. Got it.

Hezbollah situated themselves with civilians. By all international conventions, that makes them responsible for the deaths.

[ShackO]

And you have already made 15 excuses why it is the fault of the victim.. Lets see they believed this, they thought this, they intended that, blah blah blah. Got it.

Hezbollah situated themselves with civilians. By all international conventions, that makes them responsible for the deaths.

As I, not you, previously said…. The investigations have yet to answer the questions….

If it is proven that there were not missiles or whatever there, will it still be the fault of the victims???

[Yonivore]

As I, not you, previously said…. The investigations have yet to answer the questions….

If it is proven that there were not missiles or whatever there, will it still be the fault of the victims???
Again, who's blaming the victims? And, yes, it will still be Hezbollah's fault. They're the ones operating from the Qana village. There have been hundreds of rockets launched from Qana.

At worst, this is a tragic consequence of war.

[ShackO]

So then Israel has cart blanche in your mind and can do no wrong...... They can kill and terrorize who ever they want........

That is your choice.........

I am not the kind of person that is "my country right or wrong"....... So I will certainly not be believing some other country right or wrong............

I find it quite sad that there are people that are so callus and myopic that they can actually over look the killing of 800 civilians and counting as long as they are not theirs..

Enjoy the killing I am sure their will be a lot more innocent blood spilt……..

[Yonivore]

So then Israel has cart blanche in your mind and can do no wrong...... They can kill and terrorize who ever they want........

That is your choice.........
No, but you've shown no evidence that Israel has targeted anything but legitimate strategic Hezbollah targets.


I am not the kind of person that is "my country right or wrong"....... So I will certainly not be believing some other country right or wrong............
Same here, but the facts seem to be on Israel's side. They were at peace with Lebanon. Hezbollah crossed the border and killed 8 soldiers while kidnapping two. An obvious act of unprovoked war. Israel went to secure the return of their kidnapped soldiers and Hezbollah escalated by launching rockets. The rest is ongoing history in the making.

If Hezbollah had not crossed the border and commited an act of war against Israel the Qana 56 and all the other dead civilians would not now be dead.


I find it quite sad that there are people that are so callus and myopic that they can actually over look the killing of 800 civilians and counting as long as they are not theirs..
It is indeed a tragedy and I'm not overlooking it. But, I don't see that Israel had any alternatives...other than allowing Hezbollah to continue showering their country with rockets while being resupplied by Iran and Syria until there weren't any Jews left.

That seemed to be the other choice.


Enjoy the killing I am sure their will be a lot more innocent blood spilt……..

I hope it is not in vain and that Hezbollah will not be a continuing threat against Israel or Lebanon after this.

Nobody rejoices in the death of innocent people but, you need to place the blame on the proper party.

[Extra Stout]

So then Israel has cart blanche in your mind and can do no wrong...... They can kill and terrorize who ever they want........

That is your choice.........

I am not the kind of person that is "my country right or wrong"....... So I will certainly not be believing some other country right or wrong............

I find it quite sad that there are people that are so callus and myopic that they can actually over look the killing of 800 civilians and counting as long as they are not theirs..

Enjoy the killing I am sure their will be a lot more innocent blood spilt……..

What exactly would you have Israel do? And don't throw some utopian BS back like "kill only Hezbollah" that ignores the real-world reality that in wars civilians die as collateral damage.

Should they:

A) Refrain from attacking Hezbollah positions at all because innocent civilians might be killed?

With Hezbollah then still able to fire rockets at Israeli cities, Israeli innocent civilians would die.

B) Make a few token attacks on Hezbollah in a way that endangers few or no civilians?

Hezbollah still would be killing innocent Israelis.

Is it better to sit back and let others kill your own citizens in order that you don't have to kill innocent people yourself? Is that your argument?

[Guru of Nothing]

Hezbollah should be eliminated yes, but at what cost?

Let's refine the argument.

SHOULD Hezbollah be eliminated, or MUST Hezbollah be eliminated?

[Yonivore]

Let's refine the argument.

SHOULD Hezbollah be eliminated, or MUST Hezbollah be eliminated?
They should and must be eliminated.