Spurs to lose opener!

[texlawman]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed

[ducks]

dude if you have been followering the last 10 games between them
they have split them
it is spurs turn to win

SPURS WILL OWN THE MAVS

[DFW Spurs]

:stfu

[FromWayDowntown]

It will be an interesting test. The last time the Spurs opened the season on the road, they beat the defending Western Conference champions (and NBA Champions) and went on to win their second championship.

Tim Duncan's teams have never lost a season opener.

[sa_butta]

Get a life dude. Even if we did lose, which I dont think we will; it is the first game of the season.

[NBAFAN001]

The question is: will Pop go small ball on the opener? :bang :lol

[angel_luv]

Is the full schedule out?

[sa_butta]

The question is: will Pop go small ball on the opener? :bang :lolHopefully we wont have to with the new guys, and maybe he will have learned his lesson.

[JGrice02]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed

Spurs 3
Mavs 0

[greywheel]

Hopefully we wont have to with the new guys, and maybe he will have learned his lesson.
But if Pop has a solution to the Mavs, he would not expose it in a season opener, would he?

[tlongII]

The Spurs have too much size to beat the Mavs.

[J.T.]

Predictions

Parker sets career high assists.
Jackie Butler owns Dampiop.
Avery gets tossed in the third for whining about something or other.
Dirk Fouls out when Tim Duncan steps on his foot with :43 to go in the 4th.
Josh Howard calls time out when the Mavs don't have any left.
Finley posterizes the entire Mavs team, including Cuban.
Matt Bonner hits a dagger three 3pt shot.
Ginobili hits game winner.
Spurs win the first of 65 games.

[50 cent]

Good, I will be able to go to the Spurs first game of the season. :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed
Great Thread! How about no?

[Obstructed_View]

And the Mavs cruise to another regular season championship against the Spurs. Wait a second. Um. Well, they won that one playoff series, and that's pretty good. :)

[confined]

Spurs 3
Mavs 0

WOW! good insult! im hurt!

:rolleyes dipshit

[flipcritic]

:lol Trash talk starting early I see. :lol

[theroc5]

WOW! good insult! im hurt!

:rolleyes dipshit
spurs-3
mavs-0

[AlamoSpursFan]

You mean the Spurs get to watch the Mavs get their Western Conference Championship rings?

:lmao

[Mr. Body]

Dirk Fouls out when Tim Duncan steps on his foot with :43 to go in the 4th.

This still pisses me off. :depressed

How do you call a foul on someone whose foot is stepped on?! :madrun

[George Gervin's Afro]

Will we get to witness the Western Conference banner being raised? Right next to that lonely Disvison banner.. :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

prediction: mavs by 10

[GrandeDavid]

What a waste of space. Dude, that game is on November 2nd. Hardly will be a sign of things to come. But, nonetheless, I don't necessarily agree with you.

ALL THAT MATTERS =

RING COUNT:
Spurs 3
Mavs 0

[Mavs_man_41]

What a waste of space. Dude, that game is on November 2nd. Hardly will be a sign of things to come. But, nonetheless, I don't necessarily agree with you.

ALL THAT MATTERS =

RING COUNT:
Spurs 3
Mavs 0

No all that matters is this year, and for now mavs>spurs untill they can prove otherwise.

[TMTTRIO]

I'd watch out for the Spurs. Manu's going to come in pissed off with what he did last season and how it ended. With him playing this offseason and gaining his rhythm and confidence again I can see him going crazy on the Mavs :).

[Winnipeg_Spur]

No all that matters is this year, and for now mavs>spurs untill they can prove otherwise.
:lol

So what you're saying, is all that matters is this year, and based on last year (which according to you doesn't matter at all) mavs>spurs.

Impeccable logic.

[ChumpDumper]

With the roster turnover and undoubtedly ridiculous rotation Pop will run the first two months of the season, a loss in game 1 is a near certainty. The opponent doesn't really matter.

[Leetonidas]

Did anyone else not see that coming? Miami will probably play Cleveland or something.

[GrandeDavid]

No all that matters is this year, and for now mavs>spurs untill they can prove otherwise.

:lol

The season hasn't even started yet, and you make that assertion! Are you kidding me!? I know its nice that your team won an extremely tight series that could've gone either way, but don't even try to bring that smack around here until MAYBE June of next year. Even at that, the Mavs cannot come close to touching the Spurs' storied history.

Again, 3 rings and counting. How many does your team have? Bring a good take, please.

[big3bigD]

:lol

So what you're saying, is all that matters is this year, and based on last year (which according to you doesn't matter at all) mavs>spurs.

Impeccable logic.


I could personally not care any less which team wins the first game of the season, BUT...

are you saying that last season was irrelevant and this upcomming season is pre determined because the Spurs won 3 rings in the past?

Following that "Impeccable" logic, I suppose that it will be a Lakers/Celtics Finals, unless those six time champion Bulls pull the upset over the Celtics? LMAO

[GrandeDavid]

Dallas fans, good luck. It should be a helluva game, helluva division and conference race. May the best, if not luckiest, team win!

[big3bigD]

Dallas fans, good luck. It should be a helluva game, helluva division and conference race. May the best, if not luckiest, team win!

I agree. This next season should be even more wide open than the last one. Both Conferences are completely up for grabs. I expect to see a great NBA season.

[GrandeDavid]

The conference will belong to either Dallas or San Antonio, and as of now I favor them to win the overall championship as well. Its great to have two league super heavyweights in the same division slugging it out. Every Dallas vs. San Antonio game should be nationally, if not internationally, televized.

[big3bigD]

I think that it will definately be one of those two to win it all this season. I still give the Suns a small chance, but don't consider them a real threat. The East could belong to one of a few different teams. The Heat, Bulls, Pistons, Cavs and Magic all have a chance. As you said though, I can't see any of those squads being strong enough to take out the SW div winner.

It will be very interesting to watch the Spurs new style of play. I expect Pop to go small more often this season than ever before, and why not? The rules have made the NBA that kind of game these days.

There's no doubt that all of those Mavs/Spurs games should be nationally televised. That is that easily best and most exciting matchup in the NBA right now. That West Semis series last season was one of the best that I'v ever seen.

[GrandeDavid]

There are a few unanswered questions regarding the Spurs' lineup next season, but its still kind of early and I like the Spurs' historical track record of getting guys on the same page.

[johngateswhiteley]

I agree. This next season should be even more wide open than the last one. Both Conferences are completely up for grabs. I expect to see a great NBA season.

...its not wide open. basketball never is. the Spurs, mavs, heat, and maybe detriot or bulls will win it all. that is all...

[big3bigD]

...its not wide open. basketball never is. the Spurs, mavs, heat, and maybe detriot or bulls will win it all. that is all...

I guess that we will have to disagree. The NBA that I've watched for 20 some odd years usually has two or three definate favorites. This season, you, nor anyone else knows who will win the East, and the West has at least three teams that could win it.

Nobody is entering the season as the heavy favorites to win anything and several teams have a very good chance. That's wide open to me.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

You mean the Spurs get to watch the Mavs get their Western Conference Championship rings?

:lmao

A true Kodak moment!!!!
:lmao

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I could personally not care any less which team wins the first game of the season, BUT...

are you saying that last season was irrelevant and this upcomming season is pre determined because the Spurs won 3 rings in the past?

Following that "Impeccable" logic, I suppose that it will be a Lakers/Celtics Finals, unless those six time champion Bulls pull the upset over the Celtics? LMAO
No I didn't say anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that if you're going to discount the Spurs success in previous seasons as completely irrelevant to this upcoming season then it's kind of silly to turn around and talk about the Mavs victory last season as if that's any sort of factor.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No I didn't say anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that if you're going to discount the Spurs success in previous seasons as completely irrelevant to this upcoming season then it's kind of silly to turn around and talk about the Mavs victory last season as if that's any sort of factor.


They don't get it.. and they never will.

[Jheum Jhang]

HAHA you all act like jou have.......flea up your ass. :devil hehehehehehehehe

[big3bigD]

They don't get it.. and they never will.

LOL. :rolleyes

We would have to become Spurs fans first, then we would get the secret NBA knowledge that Gervin's Afrro has... LMFAO

[big3bigD]

No I didn't say anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that if you're going to discount the Spurs success in previous seasons as completely irrelevant to this upcoming season then it's kind of silly to turn around and talk about the Mavs victory last season as if that's any sort of factor.

Oh, then excuse my comments. They were more directed toward the typical Spurs-3, Mavs-0 responses that I have seen so much of and of which I thought that you were a part.

What you just said is absolutely correct. Either both or neither of those has to be true. You can't look at one team's past without taking the other's into consideration. Neither has much to do with the outcome of the upcomming season though.....

[big3bigD]

There are a few unanswered questions regarding the Spurs' lineup next season, but its still kind of early and I like the Spurs' historical track record of getting guys on the same page.

I have no doubt that Pop will get everyone together and on the same page next season. I am just curious to watch the Spurs play that small style that they used in the playoffs. I remember a couple of seasons ago, TD got hurt and you guys started scoring something like 115 a game for a while. The Spurs can play some great up tempo ball, they jusy hardly have ever needed to do so.

[Man In Black]

You can't look at one team's past without taking the other's into consideration. Neither has much to do with the outcome of the upcomming season though.....

The titles the Spurs have won are relevant due to the fact that the dominant player who makes it possible is still playing at a consistently high level. Until his stats drops or the Spurs are forced to play a diiferent style, then we can reasonably assume that the Spurs will play well. Throughout the years, even with turnover, the Spurs have shown that they can integrate players into their system.
Since Avery is in year 2 of his tenure, there is no pattern yet established. Dallas fan can hope that he can integrate the new players. Spurs fan knows that Pop can integrate players on the fly. He has a history of doing so.

[degenerate_gambler]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed


lawman huh?

You outta arrest yourself for impersonating an intelligent poster.

[big3bigD]

The titles the Spurs have won are relevant due to the fact that the dominant player who makes it possible is still playing at a consistently high level. Until his stats drops or the Spurs are forced to play a diiferent style, then we can reasonably assume that the Spurs will play well. Throughout the years, even with turnover, the Spurs have shown that they can integrate players into their system.
Since Avery is in year 2 of his tenure, there is no pattern yet established. Dallas fan can hope that he can integrate the new players. Spurs fan knows that Pop can integrate players on the fly. He has a history of doing so.

That player is getting old and has a bad foot. You second best player throws himself around so much that he cannot stay healthy. The Spurs teams that won rings were all much younger and better balanced, with Duncan in his pime. Also none of the teams that the Spurs are competimg against are anything like the teams of a few years ago. The Spurs do have an established pattern now of being older and more injured and less talented. The playoffs last season and their current roster show that the Spurs are having to play a different style than before. Duncan was great for seven games against the Mavs, not so hot against the Kings.

I think that all of the factors combined make any mention of past rings irrelevant to the Spurs future.

[JGrice02]

WOW! good insult! im hurt!

:rolleyes dipshit

Insult? What inslut? That the Spurs have won three titles in three NBA Finals appearances and that the Mavs choked in their only appearance... that is not an insult; that is plain fact. You can live in denial all you want. Fact is we measure greatness by counting championships and the Spurs have 3 to the Mavs 0. When you run down the list of the greatests franchises in a sport you look at titles won, not second round playoff series won.

Last year, the Mavs beat the Spurs en route to losing in the Finals. Yeah! Congrats on getting second place! No one outside of Texas will ever remember that. All the Mavs proved last year was that they could beat last year's Spurs team. Does that mean they will do it again? Of course not. To assert otherwise is to reveal that you didn't even watch the series.

The Mavs did what teams have always done to the Spurs after a winning a title. Its not like they pulled off the impossible. The Colts managed to beat the Patriots too, but where did that get them? No where. Like every team that comes in second or worse, the Mavs have to prove themselves all over again just like the Spurs do.

Good luck in that endeavor. I find it hard to believe that such fortune will favor the Mavs again. Many things went their way that enabled them to reach the Finals. Unfortunately, they missed their chance and will be fortunate to get another one. It could happen, but with the strength out West in SA and Phoenix I think Dallas will have a tough time repeating as WC champs.

[texlawman]

I find that simple messages work best when I speak to spurs fans :spin

[G0D]

The Mavs did what teams have always done to the Spurs after a winning a title. Its not like they pulled off the impossible. The Colts managed to beat the Patriots too, but where did that get them? No where. Like every team that comes in second or worse, the Mavs have to prove themselves all over again just like the Spurs do.

Good luck in that endeavor. I find it hard to believe that such fortune will favor the Mavs again. Many things went their way that enabled them to reach the Finals. Unfortunately, they missed their chance and will be fortunate to get another one. It could happen, but with the strength out West in SA and Phoenix I think Dallas will have a tough time repeating as WC champs.

i find this appalling. this guy sounds like he's saying Mavs need to catch up to the Spurs. if you watched the series it was clear who was the better team. Spurs were behind and are falling further behind. when you keep losing to dallas your gonna have to come up with something better than "3 rings." when you compare the two teams it is a fact that Dallas is better than the SPurs are. thats all that matters now. unfortunately beating the Spurs last year still didnt convince some cocky fans. i guess it will have to take another year............

[confined]

^ amen

[SpursWoman]

Did anyone else not see that coming? Miami will probably play Cleveland or something.


Of course ... last season we'd played both or our games v. Detroit by December.

[FromWayDowntown]

i find this appalling. this guy sounds like he's saying Mavs need to catch up to the Spurs. if you watched the series it was clear who was the better team. Spurs were behind and are falling further behind. when you keep losing to dallas your gonna have to come up with something better than "3 rings." when you compare the two teams it is a fact that Dallas is better than the SPurs are. thats all that matters now. unfortunately beating the Spurs last year still didnt convince some cocky fans. i guess it will have to take another year............

I'm not sure that the Mavericks "advantage" is as decisive as you suggest it is. The Mavericks won the series and they deserve to be seen (for now at least) as the favorites. But they were perilously close to losing that series. They did what they needed to do to win, and deserve credit for that. But one could certainly argue that the Spurs were their own worst enemies throughout that series and that they certainly have reason to think they should have won it. Regardless, it's not as if there was some gigantic gap between the teams during that series and I don't personally see that anything that either team has done since that series has widened that gap one way or the other.

[mabber]

I'm not sure that the Mavericks "advantage" is as decisive as you suggest it is. The Mavericks won the series and they deserve to be seen (for now at least) as the favorites. But they were perilously close to losing that series. They did what they needed to do to win, and deserve credit for that. But one could certainly argue that the Spurs were their own worst enemies throughout that series and that they certainly have reason to think they should have won it. Regardless, it's not as if there was some gigantic gap between the teams during that series and I don't personally see that anything that either team has done since that series has widened that gap one way or the other.

I agree with this. But I would add that I think the Mavs additions this offseason would pay big dividends if there were significant injuries to the starters and I don't see where the Spurs have addressed that. Odds are that it won't come to that though.

[ShoogarBear]

Is the full schedule out?Nope, just the first day's.

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree with this. But I would add that I think the Mavs additions this offseason would pay big dividends if there were significant injuries to the starters and I don't see where the Spurs have addressed that. Odds are that it won't come to that though.

I'd think that would be true in most seasons, though. The Spurs have insurance for Manu, but only because of the one-time break of being able to lure Mike Finley after his amnesty release. Beyond that, it would be incomprehensibly difficult to find backups for guys like Duncan, Bowen, and Parker who can provide to the Spurs what those guys do. I personally don't think that the skills of the Mavs' starters other than Dirk are quite as difficult to replace: Howard can be reasonably imitated (though not replaced) by someone who can slash a bit and defend some; Dampier and Diop are largely interchangeable; there's nothing special about the defensive-minded guy the Mavs start (Griffin last year, Bucker (perhaps) this year); Harris brings great speed, but his absence can be mitigated by moving Terry to the point and finding another shooter who can provide a reasonable facsimile of what Terry does. I'm not, by any means, trying to dismiss the quality of the Mavs starters; I just think that what drives the Mavericks' success these days is a fairly even talent level and skill set from about 2-10 on that roster. But that's easier to accomplish when the guys who are 2-4 or 2-5 on the roster aren't guys who will garner all-star slots or all-league honors (either all-NBA or all-defense). To that extent, the Spurs are probably built more on a star system than the Mavericks are and it stands to reason that the Spurs will usually not have the ability to reasonably duplicate the things they get from their starters if those guys go down with an injury.

[G-Nob]

Winner take all!

[DarrinS]

Better to lose the opener than choke away a finals.



DOH!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

I do have to give Mavfan props for spelling "lose" correctly.

[shaggy17]

I think the Mavs will have a long season. Yes they will compete and all but the way they acted in the finals last year I truly feel made them a marked team for everyone in the west. The way they embarassed the Western Conference with their childish acting on and off the court will have everybody gunning for them HARD. Also they were exposed in the finals especially their all star Dirk who proved he can NOT handle physical play and is VERY unclutch when the refs arent bailing him out in the 4th. They needed so much BS just to get to the finals that it will all have to fall in place for them again just to be in position to return back. Back on topic first game of the season big whoopie. I would like to win it but I dont want us acting like it is a playoff game either. Also it isnt ring night for the mavs so it makes it much more bearable to watch the game.

[sanman53]

Will the game be broadcasted on national TV? Or has that not been released yet?

[NBAFAN001]

Will the game be broadcasted on national TV? Or has that not been released yet?
Yes, TNT.

[remingtonbo2001]

I could personally not care any less which team wins the first game of the season, BUT...

are you saying that last season was irrelevant and this upcomming season is pre determined because the Spurs won 3 rings in the past?

Following that "Impeccable" logic, I suppose that it will be a Lakers/Celtics Finals, unless those six time champion Bulls pull the upset over the Celtics? LMAO


Your statement is completely illogical, which obviously indicates either a lack of knowledge, or a lack of humility. I'll assume both. I'll put it in these terms. There are more SPURS with rings than MAVS. What significance does this provide? CONSISTANCY, something that the MAVS lack. No I'm not speaking of game to game, but season to season consistancy. Tim Duncan 3-time FINALS MVP...Dirk....Well, uhhhh...Tim Duncan 2-time MVP....Dirk...Well, uhhhh........Manu Ginoboli, Fabicio Oberto- Gold Medalist...Tim Duncan- Bronze Medalist......Dirk...Well, uhhh.....The San Antonio Spurs- 3-time NBA Champions.....Dirk...Well, uhhhh....SMOKE ON THAT :smokin

[DDS4]

3 rings don't mean a damn thing. Neither does Dallas' win over the Spurs last year.

It's a new year.

[Mavs_man_41]

I think the Mavs will have a long season. Yes they will compete and all but the way they acted in the finals last year I truly feel made them a marked team for everyone in the west. The way they embarassed the Western Conference with their childish acting on and off the court will have everybody gunning for them HARD. Also they were exposed in the finals especially their all star Dirk who proved he can NOT handle physical play and is VERY unclutch when the refs arent bailing him out in the 4th. They needed so much BS just to get to the finals that it will all have to fall in place for them again just to be in position to return back. Back on topic first game of the season big whoopie. I would like to win it but I dont want us acting like it is a playoff game either. Also it isnt ring night for the mavs so it makes it much more bearable to watch the game.

You're a complete dumbass. The mavs will be back in contention next season for sure. To say they will have to be lucky to get back is rediculous. They have just as good or better chance than anyone else.

[ChumpDumper]

Props to Mavfan for misspelling "ridiculous" and thus completing the circle.

[Spurologist]

That will be the game when we will learn that Dirk is Bonner's bitch.

It could get nasty out there and that's why this game is rated MB for Mavs Bitching

[confined]

Your statement is completely illogical, which obviously indicates either a lack of knowledge, or a lack of humility. I'll assume both. I'll put it in these terms. There are more SPURS with rings than MAVS. What significance does this provide? CONSISTANCY, something that the MAVS lack. No I'm not speaking of game to game, but season to season consistancy. Tim Duncan 3-time FINALS MVP...Dirk....Well, uhhhh...Tim Duncan 2-time MVP....Dirk...Well, uhhhh........Manu Ginoboli, Fabicio Oberto- Gold Medalist...Tim Duncan- Bronze Medalist......Dirk...Well, uhhh.....The San Antonio Spurs- 3-time NBA Champions.....Dirk...Well, uhhhh....SMOKE ON THAT :smokin


self-centered, biast, obbsesive looser much?

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, three in a row! And a rare two-in-one to boot!

[exstatic]

WOW! good insult! im hurt!

:rolleyes dipshit
Your O'Brien Trophy case:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2004/02/02-10-04tdc/02-10-04dnews-07s.jpg

[big3bigD]

Your statement is completely illogical, which obviously indicates either a lack of knowledge, or a lack of humility. I'll assume both. I'll put it in these terms. There are more SPURS with rings than MAVS. What significance does this provide? CONSISTANCY, something that the MAVS lack. No I'm not speaking of game to game, but season to season consistancy. Tim Duncan 3-time FINALS MVP...Dirk....Well, uhhhh...Tim Duncan 2-time MVP....Dirk...Well, uhhhh........Manu Ginoboli, Fabicio Oberto- Gold Medalist...Tim Duncan- Bronze Medalist......Dirk...Well, uhhh.....The San Antonio Spurs- 3-time NBA Champions.....Dirk...Well, uhhhh....SMOKE ON THAT :smokin

umm, OK? You are pretty much just regurgotating the same old tired mess. What exactly does all of that have to do with what the Spurs will do next season? NOTHING.

Also, I appreciate your trying to sound educated and all, but neither my knowlegde of BBall nor my level of humility has anything at all to do with this topic.

I think that your fellow Spurs fan summed it up best by stating that:

"3 rings don't mean shit next season and neither does the Mavs victory over the Spurs. It's a new year."

[clubalien]

I think we lose the game. Fire pop
IF for some reason we win the game, still fire pop.

[spurschick]

A new Mavs poster talking smack about the season opener. In August. Damn, this is going to be a long season.

[himat]

Maybe the preseason opener.

[RC's Boss]

:owned
Better to lose the opener than choke away a finals.

That Mavs fan needs to use the Heimlich maneuver on Dirk to get Shaq and Zo's nutz out his throat!!!!!!

DOH!!!!

[confined]

Wow, three in a row! And a rare two-in-one to boot!

wow three wonderful additions to this topic..props to u man

[spurschick]

3 rings don't mean shit next season

Uh, yeah they do. So do the 3 trophies and 3 championship banners hanging in our arena. You'll understand once you have one.

[Louie Vega]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed

I can't believe these mavs fans are still talking shit. After the way they were DISMISSED by the Heat on a world wide stage they still have the nerve to talk shit !!!!!!!??????????
Fucken emberrassing!!!!!!!!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Spurs WILL lose the first game of the season.

[himat]

Spurs WILL win the first game of the season.

All fixed.

[FromWayDowntown]

I've missed real basketball talk -- Pistons fans smacking down Mavericks fans in a Spurs forum!! I love this place!

[ChumpDumper]

wow three wonderful additions to this topic..props to u man

http://www.thegiantpeach.com/ProductImages/main/detailed/artists/jamesbrown/stay_in_school_150.jpg

[himat]

I've missed real basketball talk -- Pistons fans smacking down Mavericks fans in a Spurs forum!! I love this place!

Imagine what would happen if The Pistons took care of the Heat last season.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2006/shaqGP_600_060620.jpg
I would rather have a second round exit than a Finals CHOKE!

[ShoogarBear]

That will be the game when we will learn that Dirk is Bonner's bitch.Outstanding quote material.

[J.T.]

Spurs 98
Mavs 86

[confined]

http://www.thegiantpeach.com/ProductImages/main/detailed/artists/jamesbrown/stay_in_school_150.jpg

was that a joke?

[ChumpDumper]

A sincere hope.

[milkyway21]

They drew the Mavs. Sorry Spurs :depressed:huh :lmao :lmao :lmao

that's why I love this forum...

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Uh, yeah they do. So do the 3 trophies and 3 championship banners hanging in our arena. You'll understand once you have one.

Which ultimately means that they will NEVER understand!

[Louis]

Mavs 180
Spurs 86 (typical)

[lovespurs forever]

Spurs WILL lose the first game of the season.
:lol AND the MAVS lost the last game of the season this year ,ha ha ha

[lovespurs forever]

Mavs 180
Spurs 86 (typical)
AND yoru HR will go fishing anther one year.

[Dalhoop]

I think that the game will be a blow-out, I am leaning toward a Spurs blow-out but with an excited crowd I would not rule out a Mavs blow-out.

Tough call, I will say Spurs 94-80

[SpursWillOwn]

Duncan 41 points 15 boards 5 assists

[JGrice02]

i find this appalling. this guy sounds like he's saying Mavs need to catch up to the Spurs. if you watched the series it was clear who was the better team. Spurs were behind and are falling further behind. when you keep losing to dallas your gonna have to come up with something better than "3 rings." when you compare the two teams it is a fact that Dallas is better than the SPurs are. thats all that matters now. unfortunately beating the Spurs last year still didnt convince some cocky fans. i guess it will have to take another year............

When you keep losing to Dallas? Where have you been the past 15 years? You certianly haven't been watching the Mavs, much less the Spurs. The Mavs have beaten the Spurs in the playoffs once during their franchise's history. For someone who likes to point to last year (history) as evidence, you do a good job of ignoring the rest of history. That's fine with me because every year is different.

That is one thing I have learned as a Spurs fan, something you will experience this season if the Mavs do not live up to your high expectations. Each year is different; each year provides its own, unique challenges.

Sure, the Mavs have most of their players back and they will be a very good team. But people said the exact same thing about the Spurs after each of their championships. And for a team that didn't even with the championship it seems to me that getting back to that level, something which took a little fortune the first time, will be extremely difficult. I can say that because I have watched the Spurs try and fail after each of their titles. Last year was the third time history repeated itself for the Spurs. It was the first time for a lot of things to happen to the Mavs (first time to beat SA, first time in Finals, first time to lose Finals).

So while I can grant that the Mavs have a very good chance at winning another title, I mean a first title, I can appreciate how difficult it is to get back to the Finals because I have watched the Spurs fail to defend their titles. Given that the Mavs have only been to the Finals once and have never actually won a title, the same cannot be said for them.

Incidentally, there is something to be said for actually winning the title. It does matter that this team has 3 titles, because the common theme in each of those titles is Tim Duncan. Yes, Duncan is the reason that 3-0 matters. And Duncan is the reason history matters when you look at the Spurs. Like they said the other day on ESPN, there are only two players in the NBA that should never be booed by their home fans: Shaq and Duncan. As long as Duncan is on the Spurs and playing at a high level, 3-0 matters because it proves he can get it done. The Mavs have not proven that yet. Dirk is officially 0-1.

For the coming season the Mavs have bragging rights over what they did to the Spurs LAST year. That's all well and good, but it doesn't really impact what will happen THIS year except that the Mavs, not the Spurs, will have the target on their chest. The Mavs, not the Spurs, will be trying to repeat as WC Champs. And what does history say about that? It doesn't say anything, because this is a first for the Mavs.

Every Spurs team that has won a title experienced some good fortune along the way. The Mavs team last season was no different. By Cuban's own admission they got lucky along the way, most notably against the Spurs (according to Cuban). To their credit they took advantage of that opportunity. But lets not pretend that the Mavs can overcome fortune rolling another way. They haven't proven that they can overcome that, evident in their loss to Miami. And if fortune rests with the Suns? Or with the Spurs? The Mavs will be talking about a wasted opportunity. That being their chance, as the better team in the Finals last year, to win the title.

And that is one thing Mavs fans and Spurs fans can agree on: the best team doesn't always win. Unfortunately for Avery Johnson, last year was the second time it has happened to his team.

[Eric Dampier]

When you keep losing to Dallas? Where have you been the past 15 years? You certianly haven't been watching the Mavs, much less the Spurs. The Mavs have beaten the Spurs in the playoffs once during their franchise's history. For someone who likes to point to last year (history) as evidence, you do a good job of ignoring the rest of history. That's fine with me because every year is different.


yep this is just showing. i've seen it in every thread. you guys talk about HISTORY you guys know you arent the best in the West anymore, so you pull up "3 rings" every time which is long gone and dead. fact is PHX, LA, DAL are all better than you are, and once Duncan retires. hah you guys are really done for a long time. sorry but we'll be winning championships in the process

[sa_butta]

Spurs WILL lose the first game of the season.And the Mavs WILL lose the rest of their games.

[G0D]

When you keep losing to Dallas? Where have you been the past 15 years? You certianly haven't been watching the Mavs, much less the Spurs. The Mavs have beaten the Spurs in the playoffs once during their franchise's history. For someone who likes to point to last year (history) as evidence, you do a good job of ignoring the rest of history. That's fine with me because every year is different.

That is one thing I have learned as a Spurs fan, something you will experience this season if the Mavs do not live up to your high expectations. Each year is different; each year provides its own, unique challenges.

Sure, the Mavs have most of their players back and they will be a very good team. But people said the exact same thing about the Spurs after each of their championships. And for a team that didn't even with the championship it seems to me that getting back to that level, something which took a little fortune the first time, will be extremely difficult. I can say that because I have watched the Spurs try and fail after each of their titles. Last year was the third time history repeated itself for the Spurs. It was the first time for a lot of things to happen to the Mavs (first time to beat SA, first time in Finals, first time to lose Finals).

So while I can grant that the Mavs have a very good chance at winning another title, I mean a first title, I can appreciate how difficult it is to get back to the Finals because I have watched the Spurs fail to defend their titles. Given that the Mavs have only been to the Finals once and have never actually won a title, the same cannot be said for them.

Incidentally, there is something to be said for actually winning the title. It does matter that this team has 3 titles, because the common theme in each of those titles is Tim Duncan. Yes, Duncan is the reason that 3-0 matters. And Duncan is the reason history matters when you look at the Spurs. Like they said the other day on ESPN, there are only two players in the NBA that should never be booed by their home fans: Shaq and Duncan. As long as Duncan is on the Spurs and playing at a high level, 3-0 matters because it proves he can get it done. The Mavs have not proven that yet. Dirk is officially 0-1.

For the coming season the Mavs have bragging rights over what they did to the Spurs LAST year. That's all well and good, but it doesn't really impact what will happen THIS year except that the Mavs, not the Spurs, will have the target on their chest. The Mavs, not the Spurs, will be trying to repeat as WC Champs. And what does history say about that? It doesn't say anything, because this is a first for the Mavs.

Every Spurs team that has won a title experienced some good fortune along the way. The Mavs team last season was no different. By Cuban's own admission they got lucky along the way, most notably against the Spurs (according to Cuban). To their credit they took advantage of that opportunity. But lets not pretend that the Mavs can overcome fortune rolling another way. They haven't proven that they can overcome that, evident in their loss to Miami. And if fortune rests with the Suns? Or with the Spurs? The Mavs will be talking about a wasted opportunity. That being their chance, as the better team in the Finals last year, to win the title.

And that is one thing Mavs fans and Spurs fans can agree on: the best team doesn't always win. Unfortunately for Avery Johnson, last year was the second time it has happened to his team.

those are good points. but the fact is, Duncan is older and not as good. i'll go as far as to say Nowitzki = Duncan right now. plus that was Dirks first finals, and he didnt have as good of a supporting cast as Duncan did.

some fans will bring up the "3 rings" statement just to show that Spurs history is better than the MAvs which means nothing.

but your point makes sense. you say they've won 3 rings with Duncan which means Duncan can win championships. i agree he can, but i think he is getting older and worse. he is getting injured a lot.

[JGrice02]

those are good points. but the fact is, Duncan is older and not as good. i'll go as far as to say Nowitzki = Duncan right now. plus that was Dirks first finals, and he didnt have as good of a supporting cast as Duncan did.

some fans will bring up the "3 rings" statement just to show that Spurs history is better than the MAvs which means nothing.

but your point makes sense. you say they've won 3 rings with Duncan which means Duncan can win championships. i agree he can, but i think he is getting older and worse. he is getting injured a lot.


I agree that his health was a concern. But that is somewhat my point. Health is one of those things that fortune brings you. And if you don't have health you must overcome it somehow. The Spurs did that against Detroit two years ago but couldn't do it again.

What if health becomes a concern for Dirk next season? What if health isn't a concern for Duncan or Parker or Manu? What if Amare Stoudamire has a full recovery? What if Phoenix doesn't have to play back-to-back, 7-game series before facing the Mavs? Circumstances change; circumstances that are outside the control of the Mavs. When the competition is this close -- the Mavs, Spurs and Suns should be very, very close -- fortune may be the separator. Maybe things will set up nicely for the Mavs again. I'm not saying it won't happen. But it has never happened for the Spurs. It is really difficult.

Dallas just did what San Antonio normally does, playing deep into the playoffs and wearing down their bodies. And isn't Dirk playing the World Championships too? There are reasons the Spurs are banged up come playoff time. Most of their team plays basketball year-round. I think you will see that Duncan's health will be at a high compared to the last two seasons. He is sitting at home, resting. He hasn't done that in a few years. I'd be more worried about the health of the Mavs and Spurs participating in the World Championships.

And I think Dirk's supporting cast was just fine. Dirk needs to play better against Udonis Haslem, plain and simple. Duncan was never shut down in the Finals. That's when he played his best. The Mavs were better than the Heat at nearly every position. Dirk played his best basketball in the second round; he dissapointed in the Finals.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

That player is getting old and has a bad foot. You second best player throws himself around so much that he cannot stay healthy. The Spurs teams that won rings were all much younger and better balanced, with Duncan in his pime. Also none of the teams that the Spurs are competimg against are anything like the teams of a few years ago. The Spurs do have an established pattern now of being older and more injured and less talented. The playoffs last season and their current roster show that the Spurs are having to play a different style than before. Duncan was great for seven games against the Mavs, not so hot against the Kings.

I think that all of the factors combined make any mention of past rings irrelevant to the Spurs future.
FYI, Duncan was puttin up 30's with a bad foot and now it's all healthy you should be scared. :fro

[dougp]

those are good points. but the fact is, Duncan is older and not as good. i'll go as far as to say Nowitzki = Duncan right now. plus that was Dirks first finals, and he didnt have as good of a supporting cast as Duncan did.

some fans will bring up the "3 rings" statement just to show that Spurs history is better than the MAvs which means nothing.

but your point makes sense. you say they've won 3 rings with Duncan which means Duncan can win championships. i agree he can, but i think he is getting older and worse. he is getting injured a lot.
You obviously missed the WCF this year then ...

Dirk
DATE OPP RESULT MIN FG 3P FT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
5/7 @Sas L 87-85 42 8-20 0-1 4-6 2 0 2 2 4 10 14 0 20
5/9 @Sas W 113-91 38 7-11 0-2 7-7 3 0 3 4 0 9 9 1 21
5/13 Sas W 104-103 43 3-9 0-0 21-24 1 1 3 2 4 11 15 3 27
5/15 Sas W 123-118 47 7-12 0-1 14-15 0 1 6 4 0 9 9 3 28
5/17 @Sas L 98-97 44 13-22 1-2 4-4 2 0 4 4 1 9 10 4 31
5/19 Sas L 91-86 46 9-16 0-1 8-8 1 0 3 1 2 19 21 5 26
5/22 @Sas W 119-111 50 11-20 0-1 15-16 1 1 0 3 2 13 15 3 37

Timmy
DATE OPP RESULT MIN FG 3P FT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
5/7 Dal W 87-85 41 12-24 0-0 7-12 1 2 4 3 5 8 13 4 31
5/9 Dal L 113-91 35 8-10 0-0 12-14 1 4 4 4 2 7 9 3 28
5/13 @Dal L 104-103 41 15-23 0-1 5-8 1 2 1 6 3 9 12 2 35
5/15 @Dal L 123-118 47 12-23 0-0 7-8 1 3 3 4 2 11 13 6 31
5/17 Dal W 98-97 44 13-19 0-0 10-15 1 3 3 2 4 8 12 4 36
5/19 @Dal W 91-86 33 8-21 0-0 8-10 1 1 3 5 2 6 8 1 24
5/22 Dal L 119-111 50 12-24 0-1 17-23 1 3 3 4 6 9 15 6 41

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan 41 points 15 boards 5 assists
9 blocks

[JGrice02]

yep this is just showing. i've seen it in every thread. you guys talk about HISTORY you guys know you arent the best in the West anymore, so you pull up "3 rings" every time which is long gone and dead. fact is PHX, LA, DAL are all better than you are, and once Duncan retires. hah you guys are really done for a long time. sorry but we'll be winning championships in the process

You obviously struggle with the definition of the word FACT. Whatever makes you feel better...

:lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think that the game will be a blow-out, I am leaning toward a Spurs blow-out but with an excited crowd I would not rule out a Mavs blow-out.

Tough call, I will say Spurs 94-80
Now this guy gots balls! Even if he is a Mav fan he is admitting that they have a bad chance at winning. Although I don't expect anybody else to pick the Spurs too, but at least he didn't add an insult. Biggie Props!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Your O'Brien Trophy case:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2004/02/02-10-04tdc/02-10-04dnews-07s.jpg
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

COLD!
Uh, yeah they do. So do the 3 trophies and 3 championship banners hanging in our arena. You'll understand once you have one.

[shaggy17]

You're a complete dumbass. The mavs will be back in contention next season for sure. To say they will have to be lucky to get back is rediculous. They have just as good or better chance than anyone else.

:blah Reread my post. I did say they would stay in contention but in a very brief way. :rolleyes . And why is it insane to say they will be lucky to get back? You cant beat a healthy suns team and you nearly went 7 games against a depleted suns team. You better pray teams dont foul Dirk hard on his ass or you guys will be screwed. The pretty boy all star cant handle physical contact. Also like I said alot of bullshit will have to fall in place for you guys to have a great chance to go back (bs questionable fouls late in games and injuries).

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

:blah Reread my post. I did say they would stay in contention but in a very brief way. :rolleyes . And why is it insane to say they will be lucky to get back? You cant beat a healthy suns team and you nearly went 7 games against a depleted suns team. You better pray teams dont foul Dirk hard on his ass or you guys will be screwed. The pretty boy all star cant handle physical contact. Also like I said alot of bullshit will have to fall in place for you guys to have a great chance to go back (bs questionable fouls late in games and injuries).

two things to say:

1. "a depleted suns team" i dont think so. they lost Amare. is that depleted? maybe, but when he tried to come back for 3 games they were a lot worse. so depleted is not a good word.

2. "Dirk cant handle physical contact" he does flop a lot but thats just to get the calls (like in soccer). he never gets injured and plays plenty of minutes, so its not like he's avoiding it.

later

[shaggy17]

two things to say:

1. "a depleted suns team" i dont think so. they lost Amare. is that depleted? maybe, but when he tried to come back for 3 games they were a lot worse. so depleted is not a good word.

2. "Dirk cant handle physical contact" he does flop a lot but thats just to get the calls (like in soccer). he never gets injured and plays plenty of minutes, so its not like he's avoiding it.

later

1.) Amare wasnt the only Sun out. Kurt Thomas was out the ENTIRE playoffs and Raja Bell was basically on 1 leg that entire series with that strained hamstring. They were depelted on size pretty much the entire season. They had to use Diaw at Center and go really really small.

2.)Rewatch the finals when Zo,Shaq,Haslem etc put him on his ass hard. It really messed up his game and put fear in him. The way to handle Dirk is the Riley ball method. Since they are calling anything a foul, knock the crap out of him or any maverick hard on their ass to at least make something of it.

[LEONARD]

dude if you have been followering the last 10 games between them
they have split them
it is spurs turn to win

SPURS WILL OWN THE MAVS

I've only been a Mavs fan for the past 11 games, and it's 6-5 Mavs...

http://www.bobanddan.com/contact/apr20/pbp-scoreboard.mp3

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

2.)Rewatch the finals when Zo,Shaq,Haslem etc put him on his ass hard. It really messed up his game and put fear in him. The way to handle Dirk is the Riley ball method. Since they are calling anything a foul, knock the crap out of him or any maverick hard on their ass to at least make something of it.

actually to be honest i didnt see any of the Finals :lol i was on vacation overseas so you got me there.

i was going by what i saw since he became a Maverick

[FromWayDowntown]

I've only been a Mavs fan for the past 11 games . . . .

which puts you among the longest-tenured Mavs fans.

[confined]

:blah Reread my post. I did say they would stay in contention but in a very brief way. :rolleyes . And why is it insane to say they will be lucky to get back? You cant beat a healthy suns team and you nearly went 7 games against a depleted suns team. You better pray teams dont foul Dirk hard on his ass or you guys will be screwed. The pretty boy all star cant handle physical contact. Also like I said alot of bullshit will have to fall in place for you guys to have a great chance to go back (bs questionable fouls late in games and injuries).

so i guess what ur sayin is that the spurs have a better chance?...ummmm how bout no?...ur team couldnt beat us last year and no uve gotten WORSE?!
and we've gotten BETTER...be real man...u can only hope that duncan will be back to form...

o and about the pretty boy shit....yeah ok at least dirk doesnt go to the refs after every call against him and act like he did nothing...duncan and his whinny little voice is as annoying as fuck...dont give me this shit

[Mavs_man_41]

:blah Reread my post. I did say they would stay in contention but in a very brief way. :rolleyes . And why is it insane to say they will be lucky to get back? You cant beat a healthy suns team and you nearly went 7 games against a depleted suns team. You better pray teams dont foul Dirk hard on his ass or you guys will be screwed. The pretty boy all star cant handle physical contact. Also like I said alot of bullshit will have to fall in place for you guys to have a great chance to go back (bs questionable fouls late in games and injuries).

Sorry but i have to disagree. The mavericks have proved that they are legit contenders even though they didnt win it all. They probably have the deepest bench in the league right now and should be even better next season. "Alot of bullshit" wont have to happen for them to get back next year. All they have to do is play to their potential and they will be right back in contention next year come playoff time.

[ShoogarBear]

which puts you among the longest-tenured Mavs fans.Too easy, Drill Sergeant, too easy!

[dbestpro]

It should be quite exciting for Dallas. The fans will be going crazy. The music and lights will be kicking. Then slowly and under great fanfair the Mav's will host their Western Conference Championship Banner.

The Spurs players will all look on in amazement. Bruce will lean over to Tim and say, "What is that?" Tim will reply, "You know, we got those too. You just can't see them cause they're hidden behind all of our champioship banners."

[ShoogarBear]

:lol

And can you imagine the looks of envy as the Spurs are forced to stand there and watch Deputy Comissioner Adam Silver hand out the Western Conference Championship rings to the Mavs.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

so i guess what ur sayin is that the spurs have a better chance?...ummmm how bout no?...ur team couldnt beat us last year and no uve gotten WORSE?!
and we've gotten BETTER...be real man...u can only hope that duncan will be back to form...

o and about the pretty boy shit....yeah ok at least dirk doesnt go to the refs after every call against him and act like he did nothing...duncan and his whinny little voice is as annoying as fuck...dont give me this shit
The only good thing that happened that was good was that you got Anthony Johnson. You got the bad end of the Daniels/Croshere trade. The Butler/Elson combo will be better than the Rasho/Nazr combo. And Duncan will be better because he will be cured from his plantar facseaitis. When he had it he was putting 30 points on y'all and now that he is healthy? You better be scared!
Before: 30 ppg 13 rpg
After: 40ppg 20rpg? I don't know, but those numbers WILL be higher.

And now that he is better he will be faster and just might be able to guard Nowitzki. And while Duncan is reducing Nowitzki's numbers, Bowen will put the clamp on Terry or Howard while Manu guards the other. So then you will be able to go to then? Dampier? Give me a break! Tell me. How exactly did y'all get better while we got worse?

Mavs:
Out:
Van Horn-A PF/SF Who occasionally knocks down some 3's
Armstrong-A solid PG for his age
Powell-A young PF who has potential
Marshall A young G/F who has a some potential.
In:
Johnson-In his 30's but can score somewhat 5-10 ppg
Croshere-Just like Van Horn
You practically got the same people. A little improvement

Spurs:
Out:
Van Exel-An old PG who declined a lot while in the Spurs.
Nazr-A solid center who can put up 5 ppg 5 rpg but can't catch or pass.
Rasho-A center with a jumpshot but is one of the softest.
Marks-A solid player for someone who is on the IR.
In:
Bonner-Like Van Horn
Butler-A young center with a lot of potential who can score, pass, and catch. But has to work a little more on defense.
Elson-Just like Nazr.
Williams-A good SF that plays defense and can occasionally score double figures. Will most liekly back up Bowen.
Vaughn-The age of Van Exel but better numbers.
That's not a lot of improvement but that is sure more than the Mavs.
So take that to the bank!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

OMFG! shaggy17 isn't a pessimist anymore! Big Props Shaggy!

[Mavs_man_41]

The only good thing that happened that was good was that you got Anthony Johnson.

That's where you're wrong. Lol where were you when the mavs drafted maurice ager? Are you a moron that cant see how bad van horn sucks? Anyone is an upgrade over van horn. Greg Buckner? was that supposedly not a good thing? Oh ya and Devean George.....spurs fans should know alot about him. He probably wont do much during the regular season, but come playoff time you will regret it when he buries big shot after big shot on your asses.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

That's where you're wrong. Lol where were you when the mavs drafted maurice ager? Are you a moron that cant see how bad van horn sucks? Anyone is an upgrade over van horn. Greg Buckner? was that supposedly not a good thing? Oh ya and Devean George.....spurs fans should know alot about him. He probably wont do much during the regular season, but come playoff time you will regret it when he buries big shot after big shot on your asses.
That's why we got this guy!

http://www.hhweb.com/nba2005champs/Horry2_small.jpg

[J.T.]

Mavfan, you understand the paradox of having Devean George and "burying big shot after big shot" in the same sentence, yes?

[johngateswhiteley]

which puts you among the longest-tenured Mavs fans.

outstanding work.

[Mavs_man_41]

Mavfan, you understand the paradox of having Devean George and "burying big shot after big shot" in the same sentence, yes?

Deavean George has always been known to make big shots against the spurs, it doesnt matter what he does during the regular season because he won't be heavily relied on.

[Dalhoop]

Now this guy gots balls! Even if he is a Mav fan he is admitting that they have a bad chance at winning. Although I don't expect anybody else to pick the Spurs too, but at least he didn't add an insult. Biggie Props!

I think that the Spurs have a better chance In this game, not later in the season. The Spurs will be far more "hungry" for revenge then the Mavs will be on day one of the new season.

The winning team in last years series in not a "keyed-up" to prove the result was a fluke, the losing team will be (there, thats the best that I do in insults :) )

[Stahlkugeln]

That's where you're wrong. Lol where were you when the mavs drafted maurice ager? Are you a moron that cant see how bad van horn sucks? Anyone is an upgrade over van horn. Greg Buckner? was that supposedly not a good thing? Oh ya and Devean George.....spurs fans should know alot about him. He probably wont do much during the regular season, but come playoff time you will regret it when he buries big shot after big shot on your asses.

Ja wohl! Devean George über alles!

Geh Mavs Geh!

[LEONARD]

The only good thing that happened that was good was that you got Anthony Johnson. You got the bad end of the Daniels/Croshere trade. The Butler/Elson combo will be better than the Rasho/Nazr combo. And Duncan will be better because he will be cured from his plantar facseaitis. When he had it he was putting 30 points on y'all and now that he is healthy? You better be scared!
Before: 30 ppg 13 rpg
After: 40ppg 20rpg? I don't know, but those numbers WILL be higher.

And now that he is better he will be faster and just might be able to guard Nowitzki. And while Duncan is reducing Nowitzki's numbers, Bowen will put the clamp on Terry or Howard while Manu guards the other. So then you will be able to go to then? Dampier? Give me a break! Tell me. How exactly did y'all get better while we got worse?

Mavs:
Out:
Van Horn-A PF/SF Who occasionally knocks down some 3's
Armstrong-A solid PG for his age
Powell-A young PF who has potential
Marshall A young G/F who has a some potential.
In:
Johnson-In his 30's but can score somewhat 5-10 ppg
Croshere-Just like Van Horn
You practically got the same people. A little improvement

Spurs:
Out:
Van Exel-An old PG who declined a lot while in the Spurs.
Nazr-A solid center who can put up 5 ppg 5 rpg but can't catch or pass.
Rasho-A center with a jumpshot but is one of the softest.
Marks-A solid player for someone who is on the IR.
In:
Bonner-Like Van Horn
Butler-A young center with a lot of potential who can score, pass, and catch. But has to work a little more on defense.
Elson-Just like Nazr.
Williams-A good SF that plays defense and can occasionally score double figures. Will most liekly back up Bowen.
Vaughn-The age of Van Exel but better numbers.
That's not a lot of improvement but that is sure more than the Mavs.
So take that to the bank!

LOL... :lol

and you forgot Ager, Buckner, George?

and I'm sorry, but Duncan wasn't hurt in the playoffs...saying that he'll put up bigger #'s and give Dirk more problems is a stretch. He can't cover Dirk even when he's 100%...sorry...

[LEONARD]

which puts you among the longest-tenured Mavs fans.


Too easy, Drill Sergeant, too easy!


outstanding work.

Pouncing on BS is easy...you guys believe anything... :lol :lol :lol

[ShoogarBear]

I hate this waiting-around shit. How many more days till the season starts? :pctoss

[LEONARD]

I hate this waiting-around shit. How many more days till the season starts? :pctoss

It's called "1 Horse Town Syndrome"...only 3 more months...you can do it! :fro

[MarkCuban]

Sorry guys, but i was really angry after Stern backstabbed me in the Finals. he promised me i'd win but he turned his back on me. thats a slap in the face to my manhood. anyway, i brought in two teachers from my son's school to ref the game, they're gettin 50 grand each to make sure we get the calls and that we win this first game. i cant trust Stern anymore.

[JGrice02]

Deavean George has always been known to make big shots against the spurs, it doesnt matter what he does during the regular season because he won't be heavily relied on.

There is not a player in the NBA that scares me less than George. The Mavs did NOT bring him in to make shots. I repeat, the Mavs did NOT bring this guy in to make shots. Indeed, that is his biggest WEAKNESS! You obviously know nothing about the player. He is a good defender and a decent rebounder. That is why they signed him. Heck, he even admitted to as much in his interview after the signing.

He hits big shots? Let's hope so, because he misses EVERYTHING else. George is a career 39% FG shooter and a career 34% 3-pt shooter. What is most troubling is that most of his career has been with Shaq! He isn't just a bad shooter; he is horrific. He is the definition of unreliable on offense.

He can defend and he can rebound. Anyone who is counting on George to do anything beyond that is completely lost.

[MarkCuban]

There is not a player in the NBA that scares me less than George. The Mavs did NOT bring him in to make shots. I repeat, the Mavs did NOT bring this guy in to make shots. Indeed, that is his biggest WEAKNESS! You obviously know nothing about the player. He is a good defender and a decent rebounder. That is why they signed him. Heck, he even admitted to as much in his interview after the signing.

He hits big shots? Let's hope so, because he misses EVERYTHING else. George is a career 39% FG shooter and a career 34% 3-pt shooter. What is most troubling is that most of his career has been with Shaq! He isn't just a bad shooter; he is horrific. He is the definition of unreliable on offense.

He can defend and he can rebound. Anyone who is counting on George to do anything beyond that is completely lost.

shut up you stupid imbecile. Devean George is tall and black. i wanted to offer him the max but AJ said we shouldnt do it because all the taller ones had been taken.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

shut up you stupid imbecile. Devean George is tall and black. i wanted to offer him the max but AJ said we shouldnt do it because all the taller ones had been taken.
Great Comeback! :tu

[MarkCuban]

Great Comeback! :tu

shut up kid, before i crash my private jet into your house

[shaggy17]

Sorry but i have to disagree. The mavericks have proved that they are legit contenders even though they didnt win it all. They probably have the deepest bench in the league right now and should be even better next season. "Alot of bullshit" wont have to happen for them to get back next year. All they have to do is play to their potential and they will be right back in contention next year come playoff time.

Well you also said that Duncan doesnt deserve to be in the class of all time greats so what the hell do you know. :rolleyes Deepest bench in the league didnt win you a title against miami and confidence wise I dont see you guys getting better. Teams in the west wll be gunning for the Mavs much more then ever and Dirk will be put on his ass ALOT. You were exposed and those weaknesses IMO havent improved. Dirk isnt clutch when the refs dont bail him out and he is still a softie and cant handle physical contact. Playing up to their potiental and making it back will require Amare not being anywhere on the court and the refs making bogus calls late in games against the Spurs. Not to mention teams will have to go easy on Dirk which I dont see happening. You will contend in the West and be a factor but you wont be better. In fact confidence wise you still wont recover from the miami series and it will show next years playoffs.

[confined]

Well you also said that Duncan doesnt deserve to be in the class of all time greats so what the hell do you know. :rolleyes Deepest bench in the league didnt win you a title against miami and confidence wise I dont see you guys getting better. Teams in the west wll be gunning for the Mavs much more then ever and Dirk will be put on his ass ALOT. You were exposed and those weaknesses IMO havent improved. Dirk isnt clutch when the refs dont bail him out and he is still a softie and cant handle physical contact. Playing up to their potiental and making it back will require Amare not being anywhere on the court and the refs making bogus calls late in games against the Spurs. Not to mention teams will have to go easy on Dirk which I dont see happening. You will contend in the West and be a factor but you wont be better. In fact confidence wise you still wont recover from the miami series and it will show next years playoffs.

haha ur a tool

ur weaknesses have been exposed as well spursfans....
double duncan and let the spus "awesome" shooters beat u ...i.e parker, ginobli...haha cuz those guys can really shoot the lights out :rolleyes

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

shut up kid, before i crash my private jet into your house
You gonna try to rig that too? Or can you handle it yourself?

[ChumpDumper]

haha ur a tool

ur weaknesses have been exposed as well spursfans....
double duncan and let the spus "awesome" shooters beat u ...i.e parker, ginobli...haha cuz those guys can really shoot the lights out :rolleyesNo Mav guard shot better than Manu in that series, so your guys must really suck.

[RC's Boss]

Deavean George has always been known to make big shots against the spurs, it doesnt matter what he does during the regular season because he won't be heavily relied on.
He only hit big shots when he had a "big" man in the middle! Your big man plays on the perimeter and drives like a G or SF until someone knocks him on his ass, then he's back to Dirk circa '01

[RC's Boss]

LOL... :lol

and you forgot Ager, Buckner, George?

and I'm sorry, but Duncan wasn't hurt in the playoffs...saying that he'll put up bigger #'s and give Dirk more problems is a stretch. He can't cover Dirk even when he's 100%...sorry...
and Dirk can't cover Tim when Tim's 75% and Dirk's 100%!

[confined]

No Mav guard shot better than Manu in that series, so your guys must really suck.

thats why we beat u right? cuz we suck so much :rolleyes
haha ive heard some really bad come backs but that one takes the cake :lol

[confined]

and Dirk can't cover Tim when Tim's 75% and Dirk's 100%!
newsflash man...dirk didnt guard duncan in that series...da da der

[RC's Boss]

and yes he was hurt, but it was the playoffs, where "stars are born." Guess he could handle the pain a lot better than the Big Choker he had his feelings hurt cuz those mean Heat guys knocked him on his little wittle buttocks! "Big Choker" someone tell Shaq to use that shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RC's Boss]

:lol
newsflash man...dirk didnt guard duncan in that series...da da der
Because neither his coach, GM, nor agent wants his ass to get embarrassed!

[ChumpDumper]

thats why we beat u right? cuz we suck so much :rolleyes
haha ive heard some really bad come backs but that one takes the cake :lolHey you're the guy who said Manu was a bad shooter. You guards didn't shoot any better, therefore, your guards suck according to YOU. Dirk is a great free throw shooter. That's what won the series. Congratulations.

[confined]

and yes he was hurt, but it was the playoffs, where "stars are born." Guess he could handle the pain a lot better than the Big Choker he had his feelings hurt cuz those mean Heat guys knocked him on his little wittle buttocks! "Big Choker" someone tell Shaq to use that shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dirk roled his ankle in the 4th quarter of game 3 of the spurs i series i believe, and STILL made the play to win them the game, so dirk wasnt 100% either...and what was duncan doing?...sitting on the bench with 6 fouls cuz he COULDNT GUARD DIRK...but i guess u wouldnt kno that cuz uve just started watching basketball a week ago...

owned

[RC's Boss]

dirk roled his ankle in the 4th quarter of game 3 of the spurs i series i believe, and STILL made the play to win them the game, so dirk wasnt 100% either...and what was duncan doing?...sitting on the bench with 6 fouls cuz he COULDNT GUARD DIRK...but i guess u wouldnt kno that cuz uve just started watching basketball a week ago...

owned
Own deez nutz beyotch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let Dirk guard Tim and see how long his Nordic ass stays in the game

[confined]

Hey you're the guy who said Manu was a bad shooter. You guards didn't shoot any better, therefore, your guards suck according to YOU. Dirk is a great free throw shooter. That's what won the series. Congratulations.

yes free throws...something duncan is afraid of

[ChumpDumper]

newsflash man...dirk didnt guard duncan in that series...da da derAnd he never will.

[ChumpDumper]

yes free throws...something duncan is afraid ofNah, he just sucks at them.

[RC's Boss]

And he never will.
Exactly! He would be "shatted" upon all day.

[confined]

Own deez nutz beyotch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let Dirk guard Tim and see how long his Nordic ass stays in the game

sorry i dont speak retard

[RC's Boss]

sorry i dont speak retard
BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Understand now?????????????

[confined]

Nah, he just sucks at them.

i guess ur right

[confined]

BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Understand now?????????????

looks like someone's PMSing :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like you are both 11.

It'll be nice when school starts.

[L.I.T]

I've gotten dumber because of this thread. Thanks.

[RC's Boss]

:drunk Glad I could help....
I've gotten dumber because of this thread. Thanks.

[Mavs_man_41]

Well you also said that Duncan doesnt deserve to be in the class of all time greats so what the hell do you know. :rolleyes Deepest bench in the league didnt win you a title against miami and confidence wise I dont see you guys getting better. Teams in the west wll be gunning for the Mavs much more then ever and Dirk will be put on his ass ALOT. You were exposed and those weaknesses IMO havent improved. Dirk isnt clutch when the refs dont bail him out and he is still a softie and cant handle physical contact. Playing up to their potiental and making it back will require Amare not being anywhere on the court and the refs making bogus calls late in games against the Spurs. Not to mention teams will have to go easy on Dirk which I dont see happening. You will contend in the West and be a factor but you wont be better. In fact confidence wise you still wont recover from the miami series and it will show next years playoffs.

First of all i never said duncan wasnt a great player. I said that in my opinion he is not as great as magic johnson. Second of all dirk sure wasnt clutch in the finals but no one was saying shit when he responded to tim thomas and scored 50. One bad series doesnt define whether or not he is clutch. If thats the case then look at the suns series. Like it or not the mavericks have a better chance of getting back to the finals than the spurs.

[RC's Boss]

First of all i never said duncan wasnt a great player. I said that in my opinion he is not as great as magic johnson. Second of all dirk sure wasnt clutch in the finals but no one was saying shit when he responded to tim thomas and scored 50. One bad series doesnt define whether or not he is clutch. If thats the case then look at the suns series. Like it or not the mavericks have a better chance of getting back to the finals than the spurs.
Tim Thomas??? Uhhhh?!?!?! It was more than a "series", it was the finals. Tim has a big fat goose egg for finals losses. And that last sentence you should save b/c you will eat those words! Good Night, try not to choke in your sleep! :lol

[THE SIXTH MAN]

One thing Ive learned from this thread is that some mav fans have good takes. But Mavs man 41 is a fucking delusional retard.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

sorry i dont speak retard

Really?
It's obvious you're quite fluent in it.
You've been consistantly proving it since your very first post.

[Mavs_man_41]

One thing Ive learned from this thread is that some mav fans have good takes. But Mavs man 41 is a fucking delusional retard.

OK smart guy how bout you explain how i am a "fucking dulusional retard."

First of all, the mavs won the last series between the two teams.
Second of all, the mavericks young athletic guards are what killed the spurs and they have done nothing but get older. This will hurt them even more next season. Third of all, The mavericks added several veterans that make our bench probably the deepest in the league. Now why the fuck am i a delusional retard for thinking the mavs have a great shot at beating you guys this season? :smokin

[Mavs_man_41]

If you knew anything about the NBA you would know that you cant count out any powerhouse in the west. Calling someone a fucking delusional retard for thinking the mavs can beat the spurs next season only proves that you are delusional. You act like its not even a possibility, like it hasnt already happened before. Face it, the mavs will be a big thorn in the side of spurs championship hopes for years to come.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

First of all i never said duncan wasnt a great player. I said that in my opinion he is not as great as magic johnson. Second of all dirk sure wasnt clutch in the finals but no one was saying shit when he responded to tim thomas and scored 50. One bad series doesnt define whether or not he is clutch. If thats the case then look at the suns series. Like it or not the mavericks have a better chance of getting back to the finals than the spurs.
What a fucking retard to compare Duncan to magic they don't even play the same position. Second who gives a shit if he put up 50 against a mid season pick up. Thomas wasn't even the best player for the suns. One bad series doesn't define if a players clutch or not but the FINALS isn't just another series. That's why the superstars get payed the big bucks to perform not to choke(Dwayne Wade= what a superstar should do for their team). Usually GREAT players set their place in history with great finals performances.

[Mavs_man_41]

What a fucking retard to compare Duncan to magic they don't even play the same position. Second who gives a shit if he put up 50 against a mid season pick up. Thomas wasn't even the best player for the suns. One bad series doesn't define if a players clutch or not but the FINALS isn't just another series. That's why the superstars get payed the big bucks to perform not to choke(Dwayne Wade= what a superstar should do for their team). Usually GREAT players set their place in history with great finals performances.

LOL so i am a "fucking delusional retard," because i think magic johnson was a greater player than Tim Duncan? :rolleyes LOL alot of people outside the homers in san antonio would agree with my opinion. And your criticism of dirk does nothing to prove how i am a so called fucking delusional retard.

[Mavs_man_41]

SixthMan, you go right on ahead and keep living in your fairy dream world where tim duncan is the greatest basketball player ever and the spurs win the championship every year. And everyone who disagrees is a "fucking delusional retard" LMAO

[ponky]

Get a life dude. Even if we did lose, which I dont think we will; it is the first game of the season.

That's why there are five pages devoted to this thread...man, tell it to your peers, not the Mavs fan who started this thread.



Spurs 3
Mavs 0

Ah yes, at the end of the day this makes up for everything that might or might not happen in the future.

Your plans for the 06-07 season:

1. Cancel those Spurs season tix
2. Order the commemorative edition of the Spurs "Road to the Championship"
3. Sit pretty in your Robinson throwback reminiscing about the old days watching the commemorative dvd over and over and over and over....
4. Cancel NBA League Pass, no need to continue watching NBA ball when you already have three rings.

[ponky]

I'd watch out for the Spurs. Manu's going to come in pissed off with what he did last season and how it ended. With him playing this offseason and gaining his rhythm and confidence again I can see him going crazy on the Mavs :).


That's kind of what you guys said when he gave the ball to the Kings on that last possession in Game whatever...he stayed in his room sulking and watching movies or whatever and lit it up for the Spurs...oh wait, no he didn't. Maybe he did it in the Mavs series...nah, I don't think so. Seriously? I don't think playing during the summer benefits Manu, he's not the most conditioned guy out there and he's injury-prone.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

If you knew anything about the NBA you would know that you cant count out any powerhouse in the west. Calling someone a fucking delusional retard for thinking the mavs can beat the spurs next season only proves that you are delusional. You act like its not even a possibility, like it hasnt already happened before. Face it, the mavs will be a big thorn in the side of spurs championship hopes for years to come.
If you knew anything about the NBA you'd know that the top dogs of each conference have a big ass target on their backs. Yes I said it the Dallas mavericks are the current top dogs of the west. But like I said the mavs have a big ass target on them. Every team in the western conference is going to give you their best games day in day out.


You didn't say anything about counting out "power house teams". Your original reply was that the mavs have better shot than the spurs of making it to the finals next season. WTF kind of logic is that, every body had Detroit as a lock to win it all this year but did that happen? This is why we play the games injuries, lack of chemistry or anything else are a part of the game.


And as far as the mavs being a "thorn in the spurs side for championship hopes". :lol Dont count your eggs before they hatch son! The way I see it is no team has a definite edge over the other. That's why our games a great to watch a bounce here a call there and the series can go either way.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

LOL so i am a "fucking delusional retard," because i think magic johnson was a greater player than Tim Duncan? :rolleyes LOL alot of people outside the homers in san antonio would agree with my opinion. And your criticism of dirk does nothing to prove how i am a so called fucking delusional retard.
:smokin Tim Duncan is a top ten player of all time, that's not being a homer its a fact. Besides Barkley and Malone name me 5 other power forwards that are better then TD. And I didn't say Duncan was better than Magic. I'm saying they play different positions they are both great at the positions they play. The 2 spot involves different skill than the four.


Your a fucking retard for giving any team the edge over the other. Like I said both teams are identical a bounce here a call there....

....you know the rest.

[Mavs_man_41]

:smokin Tim Duncan is a top ten player of all time, that's not being a homer its a fact. Besides Barkley and Malone name me 5 other power forwards that are better then TD. And I didn't say Duncan was better than Magic. I'm saying they play different positions they are both great at the positions they play. The 2 spot involves different skill than the four.


Your a fucking retard for giving any team the edge over the other. Like I said both teams are identical a bounce here a call there....

....you know the rest.

No tim duncan is not a top 10 player try top 20. Secondly it is my opinion that the mavs can beat u guys next year and thats all part of competition, that doenst make me a "delusional retard," as u call it. You call me a fucking delusional retard and 3 posts later you still havent said anything to back up your little diss. Im done arguing with you just go ahead and think what you want im not going to argue with you, you are the delusional one.

[L.I.T]

Im done arguing with you just go ahead and think what you want im not going to argue with you, you are the delusional one.


Would you like a baby bottle?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

No tim duncan is not a top 10 player try top 20. Secondly it is my opinion that the mavs can beat u guys next year and thats all part of competition, that doenst make me a "delusional retard," as u call it. You call me a fucking delusional retard and 3 posts later you still havent said anything to back up your little diss. Im done arguing with you just go ahead and think what you want im not going to argue with you, you are the delusional one.
Do you know how to read you dumb bitch? I said your a retard for giving either team the edge over the other. Your even dumber for saying Tim is not top ten. You still didn't answer my question. Name me 5 other power forwards that are better than TD?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao "all part of competition" is the excuse for your lack of being able to have a discussion of basketball? You accuse me of being a homer when I'm telling you that the mavs are the top dogs of the west WTF? Why dont you back up your "opinion" then?

[Mavs_man_41]

I said your a retard for giving either team the edge over the other.

Your even dumber for saying Tim is not top ten.

these are both your opinions, doesnt make anyone dumb for having a different opinion.

Why dont you back up your "opinion" then?

I'll back up my opinion on why i think the mavs will beat the spurs, assuming they meet in the playoffs next year. First of all, a major problem the spurs had against the mavs was their small ball line-up of young, quick, athletic guards. The spurs had a hard time keeping up with them with bowen having to spend much time on nowitzki. Pop made it even worse on himself by switching to small ball and still couldnt match up with the mavs backcourt. Now what have the spurs done this offseason to address this problem? Absolutely nothing. They will have the exact same matchup problems they had last year. The spurs havent gotten any younger. Who is gonna guard Dirk? Can't be the 36 (i believe) year old robert horry. Bowen? Then who is going to guard Howard? Harris? Terry? Instead of aquiring players to address these needs, the spurs go and trade away their dependable centers for 2 guys who are an absolute gamble. Sure, it may pay off, but you never know. All you guys talk about is needing a long 3. Where is he? The mavs, on the other hand, have made several offseason aquisitions which make their already deep bench that much deeper. Maurice Ager is a promising young rookie that will probably get 15-20 minutes per game next season. Greg Buckner is an improvement on Adrian Griffin offensively. Austin Croshere is an improvement over Van Horn defensively. Anthony Johnson is a nice addition as back-up point guard. Devean George adds depth and finals experience. So while the mavs were already the better team last year, they have improved this offseason while the spurs have yet to do a damn thing. That's why the mavs will have that much more of an advantage this season.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Ah yes, at the end of the day this makes up for everything that might or might not happen in the future.

Your plans for the 06-07 season:

1. Cancel those Spurs season tix
2. Order the commemorative edition of the Spurs "Road to the Championship"
3. Sit pretty in your Robinson throwback reminiscing about the old days watching the commemorative dvd over and over and over and over....
4. Cancel NBA League Pass, no need to continue watching NBA ball when you already have three rings.

:lol

[JGrice02]

Now what have the spurs done this offseason to address this problem?

Take the blinders off, guy. What in the world are you talking about? Every move the Spurs made this off season will improve their chances agaisnt the Mavs. Maybe they don't help against other teams, but they definitely help against the Mavs.

The Spurs acquired a PF that plays away from the basket (Bonner), a center that is quicker and more athletic than either of his predecessors (Elson), a backup PG that, unlike the ancient Van Exel, might actually stay in front of Jason Terry (Vaughn), and a long SF who can play good defense in spurts (Williams). And I didn't even mention of the promising young C prospect (Butler) because I render his services moot against the Mavs except as a sub for Duncan.

Are these additions All-World? No, they are role players. Role players are never All-World. But the roles they are capable of filling do address some glaring weaknesses the Spurs had against the Mavs.

Are any of these players going to slow down Dirk? Of course not, just like no one of the Mavs came remotely close to slowing down Duncan. What the Spurs needed to do was give themselves more flexibility. They needed someone that can chase Terry and Harris around screens and at least attempt to keep them out of the lane. They needed someone that can block out Dirk, or at least body him up. They needed someone that can easily switch on screens - a versatile SF that can defend several positions if needed. And they needed someone that can be a bull under the basket when Duncan is resting. Would they have preferred that more of these players be young? Sure, but the market was terrible this offseason so they got what was available. And in the end there is only one question that matters: Did they improve their roster for when the face a team like Dallas? Absolutely!

Does that mean they are better than Dallas? Does that mean they will beat Dallas? Of course not. But its not like they were far removed from displacing Dallas last season. We all witnessed the Dallas collapse in the second half of game seven. And the saving grace for the Mavs in that game? A boneheaded play by a Spur, Ginobili. Try to remember that before you convince yourself that the Mavs have a greater advantage against the Spurs next season.



The mavs, on the other hand, have made several offseason aquisitions which make their already deep bench that much deeper. Maurice Ager is a promising young rookie that will probably get 15-20 minutes per game next season. Greg Buckner is an improvement on Adrian Griffin offensively. Austin Croshere is an improvement over Van Horn defensively. Anthony Johnson is a nice addition as back-up point guard. Devean George adds depth and finals experience. So while the mavs were already the better team last year, they have improved this offseason while the spurs have yet to do a damn thing. That's why the mavs will have that much more of an advantage this season.

Again, you couldn't be wearing thicker blinders. When someone finds the silver lining of signing a Devean George you know they are dilusional. This is very simple. The Mavs improved their bench in one area, and one area only: backup PG. I think that is really important for the Mavs and they did a great job acquiring Johnson. But stop trying to blow sunshine up our butts with regards to their other acquisitions. The Mavs did not upgrade at any position on their bench outside of backup PG.

Is Johnson a better backup than Armstrong? Absolutely, great pickup for the Mavs. Is Buckner better on offense than Griffin? Slightly. But is he better on defense? Unfortunately, no. Is Croshere better on defense than Van Horn? Maybe. Is he better on offense? Hardly. And what about George and Ager? Are either of them as talented and productive as Daniels? Maybe Ager, 2-3 years from now... but not today. Personally, I think any team that signs George is immediately worse, but I just have a very low opinion of the player. I'm sure he will bring someone on the defensive end. Just don't let him shoot!

We don't live in a world where simply saying something makes it so. Simply because you say Croshere is better than Van Horn doesn't make it so, especially when there is no statistical support for your argument. Like I said earlier, the Mavs made one upgrade, period. You can argue that other acquisitions are better in certain areas, but when you break it down its a wash. And that is okay. We are talking about players 9-13 here, not starters.

For the most part, both the Spurs and the Mavs stood still. The Mavs helped their cause by acquiring a backup PG and the Spurs gave themselves more flexiblity for when they play teams like the Mavs. So where does that leave us for next season? Well, I'm pretty sure Ginobili won't make the same mistake twice. And if all other things are equall, which they appear to be, then I like the Spurs chances very much. They might win. They might lose. The only certainty is that neither team did anything to separate themselves this offseason.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

yes free throws...something duncan is afraid of
yes free throws..... something dirk and josh can't hit when it counts but duncan, manu AND tony can

[Jheum Jhang]

yes free throws..... something dirk and josh can't hit when it counts but duncan, manu AND tony can

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!X1000 :lol

[shaggy17]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their bitching and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

[Mavs_man_41]

JGrice, if you are counting on vaughn or eric williams for defense then you guys are in big trouble. And as far as the mavs not improving their bench, that is laughable. At least you admit anthony johnson is an improvement. :smokin

[confined]

yes free throws..... something dirk and josh can't hit when it counts but duncan, manu AND tony can
what game were u watchin?!

[sa_butta]

what game were u watchin?!:lmao

[confined]

Tim Thomas??? Uhhhh?!?!?! It was more than a "series", it was the finals. Tim has a big fat goose egg for finals losses. And that last sentence you should save b/c you will eat those words! Good Night, try not to choke in your sleep! :lol

dude u are really annoying

[Phil Jackson]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their bitching and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

nah, wouldnt go that far. they were, barring a rare monumental collapse, away from a 3-0 lead. they choked it away and got timid in game 6.

[RC's Boss]

:rolleyes Uhh, I'm not on a mavs forum. Look at the top of your browser and read the address.... it says http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1143155!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to a mavs forum. Gaurentee you won't see me there and thus you will no longer be annoyed!
dude u are really annoying

[RC's Boss]

Spurstalk not mavstalk. I think the mavs forum can be reached by placing both hands around your neck and squeeze as tightly as possible. Give it a try!

[Mavs_man_41]

Spurstalk not mavstalk. I think the mavs forum can be reached by placing both hands around your neck and squeeze as tightly as possible. Give it a try!

No actually its called the nba forum. If you dont want to deal with mav fans then stay in the spurs forum. Kori made this section for fans of all teams and if you dont like it you dont have to stay.

[RC's Boss]

No actually its called the nba forum. If you dont want to deal with mav fans then stay in the spurs forum. Kori made this section for fans of all teams and if you dont like it you dont have to stay.
THIS IS THE SPURS FORUM.... LAY OFF THE ROCKS CRACKBOY!

[Mavs_man_41]

HAHA im sorry man ur probably right about laying off the rocks :smokin

[Mavs_man_41]

I coulda swore i was in the nba forum now i feel like a dumbass :drunk

[confined]

Spurstalk not mavstalk. I think the mavs forum can be reached by placing both hands around your neck and squeeze as tightly as possible. Give it a try!

AHAHAAHAHAHAH! ur annoying and a complete idiot!

[Man In Black]

JGrice, if you are counting on vaughn or eric williams for defense then you guys are in big trouble. And as far as the mavs not improving their bench, that is laughable. At least you admit anthony johnson is an improvement. :smokin

He gives you an actual basketball take, with creditable reasons as to why both teams are improved in some areas, and weaker in others and all you have is the above quote?

Counting on Vaugh or Williams? Please, what Vaugh can do better than Van Exel is not be a turnstile. Williams is 6 hard east coast fouls for Dirk and the rest of the "Proven as soft-Reverse sweep Mavweaks".

Yeah say that you won in a 7 game series against the then defending champs in San Antonio, I'll prefer to say that you survived. From what I recall, the NBA admitted they made a key mistake from which your team gained advantage.

link provided in case you forgot:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2006/05/28/nowitzki_was_driving_force/?page=3

Harm, but no foul
Fresh from the Too Little, Too Late Dept. comes word that the NBA rescinded the technical foul against San Antonio's Michael Finley in the second quarter of Game 4 in Dallas. Finley was called for a technical with 4:44 remaining in the half, and it appeared to be borderline at best. ``You can imagine what I wanted to say when I heard that," said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, who found out about the decision Thursday. ``Does that mean we win the game by 1 point?" Game 4, which was played May 15, went into overtime, and the Mavericks prevailed, 123-118, so the technical was huge. (Dirk Nowitzki made the free throw.) For Finley, it means he won't have to fork over $1,000 to the league. For the Spurs, it means yet another tough break in a series they just as easily could have won.

I'd rather beat a team outright than whine publicly about how basketball, a contact sport I add, is being played too physically by a team known for valuing defense.

[JGrice02]

JGrice, if you are counting on vaughn or eric williams for defense then you guys are in big trouble. And as far as the mavs not improving their bench, that is laughable. At least you admit anthony johnson is an improvement. :smokin

Is this really all you have? Did you even read my last paragraph. Just because you say something is doesn't make it so. You actually have to argue your points. Of course, you have no ground to stand on so I completely understand why you choose not to argue the insane.

Oh wait, I get it. This is your concession speech. You recognize that everything I said was correct and you have no recourse. I hereby recognize your acceptance of defeat and permit you to bow out of this conversation with a shred of dignity.

Be gone, minion.

Next.

[Barry Bonds]

He gives you an actual basketball take, with creditable reasons as to why both teams are improved in some areas, and weaker in others and all you have is the above quote?

Counting on Vaugh or Williams? Please, what Vaugh can do better than Van Exel is not be a turnstile. Williams is 6 hard east coast fouls for Dirk and the rest of the "Proven as soft-Reverse sweep Mavweaks".

Yeah say that you won in a 7 game series against the then defending champs in San Antonio, I'll prefer to say that you survived. From what I recall, the NBA admitted they made a key mistake from which your team gained advantage.

link provided in case you forgot:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2006/05/28/nowitzki_was_driving_force/?page=3


I'd rather beat a team outright than whine publicly about how basketball, a contact sport I add, is being played too physically by a team known for valuing defense.

:lol

basketball and contact sport do not deserve to be mentioned in the same saliva. its the softest sport out there. your not allowed to touch somebody on the waste. its a joke. why do you guys argue who's tougher? :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

For the most part, both the Spurs and the Mavs stood still. The Mavs helped their cause by acquiring a backup PG and the Spurs gave themselves more flexiblity for when they play teams like the Mavs. So where does that leave us for next season? Well, I'm pretty sure Ginobili won't make the same mistake twice. And if all other things are equall, which they appear to be, then I like the Spurs chances very much. They might win. They might lose. The only certainty is that neither team did anything to separate themselves this offseason.

I'd say the additions of Ager, Buckner, George, Johnson, and Croshere > the spurs additions of Butler, Elson, Bonner, Williams, and Vaughn by a long shot. For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver. The mavs have done alot to seperate themselves from the spurs this offseason.

[Chicken Is Good]

Id just say that the spurs fucking blow.. thats all u can say.. they have ducan... LMAO hes worst player in the fucking game...

[Chicken Is Good]

Lol making a point to mavs man that the spurs dominate the fucking mavs

[Mavs_man_41]

Damn, JGrice02 has been viewing this thread for about 30 minutes trying to think up an intelligent response, and i dont have all day to sit and argue. I am about to be leaving so if you want to think the mavs did nothing this offseason and the spurs improved so much then go right ahead. Ill be back later tonight to argue this with you.

[JGrice02]

Damn, JGrice02 has been viewing this thread for about 30 minutes trying to think up an intelligent response, and i dont have all day to sit and argue. I am about to be leaving so if you want to think the mavs did nothing this offseason and the spurs improved so much then go right ahead. Ill be back later tonight to argue this with you.

There is no need for a response when you have done absolutely nothing to further your argument. Simply repeating what you already said is not an argument. Redundant? Yes. But not an argument. You haven't given an argument; only an ignorantly conceived assertion that the Mavs upgraded whereas the Spurs did not.

There was one upgrade on the Mavs roster, I have already explained that to you. You cannot support any of your other assertions. And there is a reason for that -- there are no facts to support your assertions. You simply appeal to yourself as some sort of authority who assumes that whatever you say is true, regardless of what stats or common sense tell us.

No, you aren't arguing. You are just being anoying. Heck, I welcome an argument from you. But I highly doubt you can string together two cogent sentences. Prove me wrong. And, please, don't repeat the same nonsense that I showed to be just that -- nonsense. You want to argue? Start by thinking before you type...

[NBA Junkie]

For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver.

Hardly. In 72 games, Elson played an average of 22 minutes per game.

Not bad for a supposed 12th man, eh?

[NBA Junkie]

There's no doubt that all of those Mavs/Spurs games should be nationally televised. That is that easily best and most exciting matchup in the NBA right now. That West Semis series last season was one of the best that I'v ever seen.

Yes. All 4 meetings are nationally televised. Nov 2 is on TNT. Nov 24 and Jan 5 are on ESPN, and the final meeting is on ABC on Apr 15.

[ShoogarBear]

I'd say the additions of Ager, Buckner, George, Johnson, and Croshere > the spurs additions of Butler, Elson, Bonner, Williams, and Vaughn by a long shot. For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver. The mavs have done alot to seperate themselves from the spurs this offseason.
The Mavs have had more talent than the Spurs every year from 2001 onward. Big whoop if they still do.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd say the additions of Ager, Buckner, George, Johnson, and Croshere > the spurs additions of Butler, Elson, Bonner, Williams, and Vaughn by a long shot. For gods sake elson was the 12th man for Denver. The mavs have done alot to seperate themselves from the spurs this offseason.

You're talking about the additional of overall talent. The NBA isn't much about who has the most overall talent. It has much, much more to do with how teams matchup with each other, which has less to do with talent than it does with how a team is constructed.

I'd say that the difference between the teams in the playoffs wasn't terribly substantial. It's not proveable, but the difference between the teams was so small that it strikes me as reasonable to think that if the Spurs had gotten 2 ppg and 5 rpg from their center and something other than a foul-fest from a point who couldn't defend anymore the result of that series might have been different.

Jacque Vaughn might not be the most talented back-up PG in the league, for example, but if he can play defense for 10-12 minutes per night and contribute a bucket or a assist or two, the Spurs are a better team in a playoff situation than they were last year. If Francisco Elson or Jackie Butler can give the Spurs 10-15 minutes per night and some rebounding, the Spurs will be better because Mike Finley won't have to start games at the 4 and the Spurs bench will be longer. They're not super-talented, but the Spurs need guys to fill roles, not guys to dominate play.

Shoog is right -- there's nothing unusual about the Mavericks being the more talented team on paper in this comparison; but the more talented team didn't win in 2001 or 2003 and the more talented team squeeked by in 2006. The Spurs moves this summer aren't as flashy as those the Mavs made, but they might be enough to push the Spurs back over the top, which is all that matters.

[ShoogarBear]

squeeked
I hate these hicks who make the rest of us Spur fans look ignorant.

[confined]

Shoog is right -- there's nothing unusual about the Mavericks being the more talented team on paper in this comparison; but the more talented team didn't win in 2001 or 2003 and the more talented team squeeked by in 2006. The Spurs moves this summer aren't as flashy as those the Mavs made, but they might be enough to push the Spurs back over the top, which is all that matters.[/QUOTE]

probably not

[A Man of Few Words]

I hate these hicks who make the rest of us Spur fans look ignorant.

[confined]

cant we all just get along? :angel

[Dalhoop]

I think that the Spurs are thinking that they will not run into the Mavs this next year in the play-offs. The changes that they have made are not conducive to doing better against the way that the Mavs play the Spurs, while the Mavs have reinforced with their roster moves that they intend to play this way all the time.

This isn't a knock on either team, just an observation.

The Mavs moves show that they intend to play Harris and Terry together most of the time and to keep Diop or Dampier in the game. The Mavs didn't play "small ball" to win vs the Spurs, they always had a center in the game guarding Duncan (fouling him, to be more precise :) ), the Spurs had to play "small ball" to keep up. The additions that they have made does not change the fundimental match-ups of the game.

Unless either Bonner, Butler, Elson or Duncan guards Nowitzki the Spurs will be forced into another "small ball" situation. Now I will be honest, I cannot remember how well Bonner, Butler or Elson have done in the past against Dirk, I do know that the Spurs avoid putting Duncan on him to keep him from foul trouble (With Dirk playing closer to the rim, this problem has increased from years past when he would be out on the three point arc)

I feel that a game between the two team will come down to that match-up more then any other. If the Spurs put Bowen on Dirk, they will have to go small and the Mavs will prevail again in a seven game series.

[Amarelooms]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their bitching and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

What bullshit lol. So sad Spurs fans.

[Mavs_man_41]

There is no need for a response when you have done absolutely nothing to further your argument. Simply repeating what you already said is not an argument. Redundant? Yes. But not an argument. You haven't given an argument; only an ignorantly conceived assertion that the Mavs upgraded whereas the Spurs did not.

There was one upgrade on the Mavs roster, I have already explained that to you. You cannot support any of your other assertions. And there is a reason for that -- there are no facts to support your assertions. You simply appeal to yourself as some sort of authority who assumes that whatever you say is true, regardless of what stats or common sense tell us.

No, you aren't arguing. You are just being anoying. Heck, I welcome an argument from you. But I highly doubt you can string together two cogent sentences. Prove me wrong. And, please, don't repeat the same nonsense that I showed to be just that -- nonsense. You want to argue? Start by thinking before you type...

The reason i have to keep repeating myself is because you keep repeating that the mavs havent upgraded their roster this offseason, which i thought was obvious that they did. I dont have the time or the patience to back this up with numbers. Im not going to waste my time posting a stat by stat comparison of Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner just to please you and "prove" that its an upgrade. I think its pretty obvious that they are similar players whose strongpoints are both defense, although Buckner is the much better shooter. The same can be said of all the other positions the mavs upgraded on this past offseason. And just for the record, go look up the stats on nba.com on your own time. Even though Griffin was a starter all through the regular season, Buckner is still better statwise while coming off the bench. I dont care to look up any of the other mavs aquisitions but feel free do it yourself and try to "prove me wrong."

[Haiku]

this thread is a waste
too many long paragraphs
and nobody wins

[Mavs_man_41]

As long as we put Dirk on his ass he will slow down dramatically and wear down in the 4th. Elson and Butler I can see give that softie all star some hard ass fouls. The heat didnt exactly have quick guards either. They had GP and J-will and wade was their only fast guy. They had Posey and Haslem guard Dirk and had Antoine Walker start at the 3. Miami wasnt exactly young and they beat the Mavs in 6 games. The Heat PUNISHED the Mavs on the defensive end by playing Riley ball. The Mavs cant handle physical 48 minute games which sadly the Finals was their first series handling a beating like that. That is one key factor the Mavs lack no matter who they sign or what they say they cant handle teams being physical with them and Mav fans know it. Dirk, who is a so called "superstar", didnt play like he did the previous 3 rounds due to Shaq,ZO,Haslem,Posey putting him on his ass hard. When you get physical with the Mavs it totally throws them off and puts them out of sync. Next year wont be the case and I hope mav fans know this. They disgraced the western conference last year with their bitching and crying to the press and they have a huge target on their back. Teams will not only be gunning for the Mavs but gunning for them HARD. Mavs will have problems handling teams being physical with them for 48 minutes.

This is a load of bullshit, you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.

[Haiku]

This is a load of bullshit, you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.


this guy might be right.
rugby or swimming. you just
cant compare the two

[JGrice02]

The reason i have to keep repeating myself is because you keep repeating that the mavs havent upgraded their roster this offseason, which i thought was obvious that they did. I dont have the time or the patience to back this up with numbers. Im not going to waste my time posting a stat by stat comparison of Adrian Griffin and Greg Buckner just to please you and "prove" that its an upgrade. I think its pretty obvious that they are similar players whose strongpoints are both defense, although Buckner is the much better shooter. The same can be said of all the other positions the mavs upgraded on this past offseason. And just for the record, go look up the stats on nba.com on your own time. Even though Griffin was a starter all through the regular season, Buckner is still better statwise while coming off the bench. I dont care to look up any of the other mavs aquisitions but feel free do it yourself and try to "prove me wrong."

Actually, I looked up stats on the Mavs acquisitions before I even posted on this thread. That's what thinking people do who think before they post. And I haven't repeated anything since my original thread other than my main point - the Mavs clearly upgraded in one area, backup PG. Aside from that you can hope for an upgrade but one is certainly not apparent.

Now, you can't really argue against that because I'm right. So I see why you chose not too. That's fine with me. The only problem I have is that your pride is preventing you from raising the white flag. I can understand why your Mavs bias may lead you to believe that they made some upgrades, but when the situation is looked at objectively you simply cannot aruge that point with confidence. Yet you are adamant about arguing from an unsubstantiated position.

It is your fan bias, not reality, that makes you think the Mavs have truly updgraded. It is your blind support, not facts, that makes you think the Mavs have oibviously separated themselves from the Spurs. I can understand that, because fans do it all the time. But it was you who called me out for a response; and at the same time it was you who never even responded to my original post. You simply repeated the same, company line, regardless of what holes were poked in your "argument". So you see, I have no reason to further a successful argument. And your silence with regards to my original argumet is telling that you have no recourse.

Yeild.

[mabber]

Actually, I looked up stats on the Mavs acquisitions before I even posted on this thread. That's what thinking people do who think before they post. And I haven't repeated anything since my original thread other than my main point - the Mavs clearly upgraded in one area, backup PG. Aside from that you can hope for an upgrade but one is certainly not apparent.

Now, you can't really argue against that because I'm right. So I see why you chose not too. That's fine with me. The only problem I have is that your pride is preventing you from raising the white flag. I can understand why your Mavs bias may lead you to believe that they made some upgrades, but when the situation is looked at objectively you simply cannot aruge that point with confidence. Yet you are adamant about arguing from an unsubstantiated position.

It is your fan bias, not reality, that makes you think the Mavs have truly updgraded. It is your blind support, not facts, that makes you think the Mavs have oibviously separated themselves from the Spurs. I can understand that, because fans do it all the time. But it was you who called me out for a response; and at the same time it was you who never even responded to my original post. You simply repeated the same, company line, regardless of what holes were poked in your "argument". So you see, I have no reason to further a successful argument. And your silence with regards to my original argumet is telling that you have no recourse.

Yeild.

A Mav writer's perspective for what it's worth...

Wow Factor
Mavs' Roster Seems Loaded For '06

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
To some degree, we wrote it, typed it, edited it and published it almost by rote. The Mavs' roster/depth chart as we see it today:

C - Diop, Dampier, Mbenga
PF - Nowitzki, Croshere, Pops
SF - Howard, George
SG - Buckner, Stackhouse, Ager
PG - Terry, Harris, Johnson



We might oughta take one more glance at it.
Glancing, glancing, glancing. ...
Wow.
A franchise long starved for one proven NBA center now has two, with a third just now emerging from the womb. Nowitzki is a superstar, his running mate at forward Josh Howard is a budding star, each soon to be under long-term contractual lock, with a both-position backup in the affordable Devean George, plus a shooter in Croshere, plus an exciting prospect in Pops acquired at no cost. The 2 is loaded with a trio of two-way players. The point-guard position features a trio of guys who all had starting and starring moments in last year's playoffs.
The quality and depth of the roster is matched only by that of the front office. I wouldn't trade the Trinity River Trinity of owner, GM and coach for any in the NBA. Mavs management now possesses a slow hand when it comes to the development of the club (Avery's calming influence on the franchise's once-frenzied approach to talent acquisition) but at the same time possesses a quick trigger finger when it comes to executing must-do's (when Mike James falls through, the club wastes no time finding a James-a-like in Anthony Johnson). That approach has fueled apparent upgrades to the supporting cast: Griff is out but Buck is in; Van Horn is out but Croshere is in; Armstrong is out but Johnson is in; Marquis is out but Ager is in. Dallas got to the NBA Finals on the strength of essentially an eight-man rotation, and that rotation comes back familiar, experienced and just as strong. As for the rest of the new, seemingly well-fitting bodies? They help win 60 on the way to the postseason. The arena is majestic, the fans are supportive, the franchise is muscular and their NBA Finals runners-up status would figure to make them hungry. Oh, and Las Vegas loves 'em.
The only thing lacking in this team and this franchise right now (unless you're among the fuds who want Cuban to change seats or whine about Nash's departure) is a line at the Mavs' complaint window and a space in the police blotter.
Wow.

10:00 am Aug 5 06

[JGrice02]

That approach has fueled apparent upgrades to the supporting cast: Griff is out but Buck is in; Van Horn is out but Croshere is in; Armstrong is out but Johnson is in; Marquis is out but Ager is in. Dallas got to the NBA Finals on the strength of essentially an eight-man rotation, and that rotation comes back familiar, experienced and just as strong. As for the rest of the new, seemingly well-fitting bodies? They help win 60 on the way to the postseason.
10:00 am Aug 5 06

I'm not surprised by any of this as I expect most Mavs fans and writers to enhance the good. I think it is noteworthy that the writer recognized his own bias and qualified his opinion on their off-season moves with the words "apparent upgrades". That is because, at best, they are "apparent" upgrades. Realistically, they are equal exchanges that made fiscal sense.

Only Johnson is a significant upgrade that I think the Mavs will be please with. The other replacement parts appear to be equal exchanges with little-to-no differentiation. One can easily argue that Ager, in the short-term, will be a downgrade from Daniels. That's why I like to combine George & Ager into a player that the Mavs hope can replace and improve on Daniels contributions. But unlike Johnsons, Croshere, and Buckner, the Mavs don't really know what they have in Ager yet and I'm not sure they will like what George brings.

Thus the Mavs have a sure upgrade in Johnson and some nice replacement parts at an affordable price. Are players 9-12 really upgrades? I suppose if you squint your eyes you can see a silver lining. But to argue that they separate the Mavs from the Spurs when their role in a series will be minimal? When the same core of players return from a series that was all but wrapped up by the Spurs before a mistake by Manu gifted the Mavs a chance at redemption? That's where I take exception to the opinion that the Mav's moves have given them significant separation from the Spurs.

I would argue that the opposite is true, that the Spurs actually improved their roster with regards to how they will matchup against Dallas and Phoenix, but I have my own bias that would need to qualify that argument. In any event, I think we have given enough time to players 9-12 on the Mavs roster.

[Dalhoop]

Croshere is an improvement over KVH.

Last year Croshere shot better %'s on both 2's and 3's and FT's, he also almost doubled KVH's rebound numbers. Although last year both players missed games (about 30 each) Croshere has been healthy, KVH has not been. His is an improvement.

Pop's is an improvemnt over PPod

PPod came into the league at a time that prevented him from going to the D-League, the only time he could get on the floor was in games (not going to happen). Pop's can go to the D-League and get regular playing time to furture improve his game. Because of this, he is an upgrade.

George is an improvement over .... well nobody.

Last year Stackhouse covered both the SG and SF posistions because the Mavs didn't have anyone to fill that spot (AJ didn't give Daniels minutes). By the very act of getting on the floor he becomes an upgrade over Daniels as even if he does nothing, he gives a player a chance to rest.

[Mavs_man_41]

Lmao JGrice, you cant base whether or not some people are improvements just because of stats. Intangibles dont show up in stats. Some people got more minutes because they were in a better position than others. You say i have done nothing to further my argument, and i told you that while i dont have the patience to post meaningless stats for every mavs aquisition, i did go to nba.com and check the stats for Greg Buckner, who you say isnt an upgrade. By the way, Buckner put up better numbers from a bench role than Griffin did as a starter. So shut the fuck up and quit telling me i am conceding to you, how about you further your argument on how Buckner "isn't an upgrade" over Griffin. You say the mavs havent improved their roster so we will take it one position at a time, starting with SG.

[Mavs_man_41]

I'm not surprised by any of this as I expect most Mavs fans and writers to enhance the good.

Lol i think that most sport writers know alot more about mavs aquisitions then your casual, head up his ass spurs fan. You know that your team lost to the mavs last year and you are insecure about their chances this year after what the mavs have done this offseason.

[JGrice02]

You say the mavs havent improved their roster so we will take it one position at a time, starting with SG.

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a title. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a title next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another title, oops, I mean, a first title.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first title.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.

[shaggy17]

This is a load of bullshit, you trying to portray dirk as some kind of pussy just because of one series. I dont know why u think this, maybe his style of play doesnt suit you well. If a guy has a great shot then why would he always try to get to the rim when thats not his strength, although hes proven he can get to the rim when needed. Dirk grew up playing rugby and handball in Germany which are 2 of the roughest sports out there. If anyone is "soft" its cry baby, look at me, ive never committed a foul in my life i swear Tim Duncan.

:blah :blah :lol Ahhh typical yet comedy that you defend Dirk being able to handle physical play. Also that one series was the NBA Finals! You know the biggest stage of them all??? Sorry but proving you can ball in the first 3 rounds and turning extra soft in the title round defines who you are as a player when everything is on the line. The truth hurts :fro

[confined]

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a title. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a title next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another title, oops, I mean, a first title.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first title.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.


^JGrice02....ur my idol man... i could never have the patience to type all that ....i salute u

[mabber]

^JGrice02....ur my idol man... i could never have the patience to type all that ....i salute u

He's my idol now too...the dude just wrote 11 long paragraphs about the Mavericks :lol I think somebody got to him :lol

[confined]

He's my idol now too...the dude just wrote 11 long paragraphs about the Mavericks :lol I think somebody got to him :lol

i didnt have the patience to read it either

[Mavs_man_41]

i didnt have the patience to read it either

Yea me either.

[Mavs_man_41]

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a title. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a title next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another title, oops, I mean, a first title.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first title.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.

Hey why dont you cut out all the bullshit, that way it should only be a sentence or two and i might actually take the time to read it.

[phyzik]

Hey why dont you cut out all the bullshit, that way it should only be a sentence or two and i might actually take the time to read it.


ahh.. the old "make fun of post because you just got owned" arguement.. :madrun

just calling it like I see it.

[JGrice02]

He's my idol now too...the dude just wrote 11 long paragraphs about the Mavericks :lol I think somebody got to him :lol

What can I say? I'm a writer. It's what I love to do...

[JGrice02]

Hey why dont you cut out all the bullshit, that way it should only be a sentence or two and i might actually take the time to read it.

A concession speech if I have ever seen one. You are making a habit of that on this thread. I have to admit though, this one was much more convincing. You actually have me feeling sorry for you.

[veronicamae]

Am I the only one that's nauseated by all this stupid Mavs-Spurs rivalry? Can we just let it rest for the next 2 months before it starts up again? UGH!

[Mavs_man_41]

A concession speech if I have ever seen one. You are making a habit of that on this thread. I have to admit though, this one was much more convincing. You actually have me feeling sorry for you.

Lmao i am not giving a concession speech, i dont feel like wasting the time arguing with you about something i know is true. And plus every one of your responses are just a big essay of bullshit. I would much rather have a discussion than an essay writing contest. Please, keep it under 2 paragraphs if you expect me to take the time to read.

[Doug Collins]

Lmao i am not giving a concession speech, i dont feel like wasting the time arguing with you about something i know is true. And plus every one of your responses are just a big essay of bullshit. I would much rather have a discussion than an essay writing contest. Please, keep it under 2 paragraphs if you expect me to take the time to read.


I can barely read multiple sentence posts let alone something in excess of 700 words. Good god. This is a message board not a thesis review panel.

[mavsfan1000]

Once again you show the inability not only to argue but to comprehend the English language. I have said repeatedly the Mavs upgraded at backup PG and I even said their other moves are upgrades from a fiscal stand point. It was you who argued that the Mavs made significant upgrades furthering the distance between them and a team they were lucky to beat last season.

The Spurs and Mavs were so closely matched that in the fortune was the difference in that series. Every game was close. Every game was exciting. But you act as though the Mavs swept the Spurs on the way to a title. Wake up. The Mavs were fortunate to beat the Spurs and choked against the Heat. Who is insecure?

I have no insecurities about what the Spurs did this offseason because they will only improve our chances against teams like the Mavs and Suns. I have said that from the beginning, even though you refuse to acknolwedge or comprehend how it might be possible. You laugh because I disagree with some Mavs.com reporter who did nothing but say, in passing, that the role players you hang your hopes on for next season are "apparent" upgrades.

Apparent isn't a convincing word, esp when you are talking about players 9-12 that include the following: a talented yet unproven rookie; an underachieving and overpaid KVH PArt II; Devean George, haha; and a reserrve defender that can't play much offense. And who did they replace? The only player not cloned in the offseason was Marquis Daniels. Yet here you are, ranting on the greatness of Greg Buckner. Buckner? That is where your hopes lie? Let's take a closer look.

In 24 minutes a game, Buckner put a couple more points on the board than Griffin. But at what cost? Griffin shot a much higher % from the floor. Which would aver prefer? Efficiency or sheer points? Speaking of efficienct, NBA.com's efficiency ratings [ ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G) ] reveal Griffin has an +8.77 Eff and Buckner has an +8.68 Eff. Yes, one of the more comprehensive measuring sticks from NBA.com says these players are all but identical, with Griffing having a slight edge. And you want to say the stats support Buckner being the better player? I shake my head at such nonsense.

One thing I would agree with concerning what you said is that stats don't tell everything. I'm not saying you can look at every player's efficiency rating and know if they are better than another. Buckner might be a better fit on the Mavs roster than Griffin even though they are similar players. George might be a great fit; as might Croshere and Ager. What I'm saying is that only Johnson is a significant upgrade. That comes from what I have seen of the players, both their numbers and their leadership skills. These players are nice additions, you might even convince another Mavs fan they are upgrades. But to the non-bias and somewhat educated sports fan these are little more than replacement parts.

Incidentally, I find it ludicrous that you tie the Mavs hopes of winning a title next season to what they did this offseason. Do you really think players 9-12 will be the difference for the Mavs next season? I follow the Mavs fairly closely so let me tell you what to look for next season if the Mavs are to win another title, oops, I mean, a first title.

First, Dirk needs to stay healthy and develop his low-post game. Second, Devan Harris needs to develop into a consistent starter. Third, Josh Howard needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble and on the floor. Fourth, Diop needs grow and take over as the primary C for the Mavs. Terry's is in the prime of his career, I see no major area of concern for him. But if those four things happen I think the Mavs have a great chance (emphasis on chance) to win their first title.

Along the way their role players will do the same thing they did last year. During the regular season it will really help to have George and Croshere and Ager, but I can only see Johnson making a significant impact in the playoffs.

Depth was a strength of the Mavs in the playoffs against the Spurs. But that had more to do with the Spurs lack of depth when they rendered their two centers useless. The Mavs only played 7-8 guys while the Spurs played 6-7. What the Spurs did this offseason was give themselves 1-2 players that can be used against the Mavs. And that is all they needed. When you feel like you should have won the series in the first place there is no reason to make huge changes.

It would have been nice for the Mavs to acquire Mike James. It would have been nice for the Spurs to acquire Joel Pryzbilla or Alonzo Mourning. Neither happened, but teams went to backup plans. Those backup plans were not significant upgrades, they were subtle changes that may or may not pay dividends when the WCF roll around next year. And that is why we are done talking about players 9-12 on the Mave roster. Because unless something miraculous happens, these players will have no impact on the outcome of what should be another great series between the Mavs and Spurs next season.

Yeah if you look at the stats these players aren't upgrades. What they do better is defense. Anyways Ager I think you are underrating. He has already proven he can hit outside shots which is an upgrade over Daniels since Daniels couldn't make one to save his life. I think Devean George along with Buckner will see some minutes. Dallas would be able to backup Harris with Johnson if they decide to start Harris again against San Antonio. You can negate all these acquisitions all you want but in the end of the day Dallas is much better off with having their players rested during the season and being fresh for the playoffs.

[JGrice02]

Lmao i am not giving a concession speech, i dont feel like wasting the time arguing with you about something i know is true. And plus every one of your responses are just a big essay of bullshit. I would much rather have a discussion than an essay writing contest. Please, keep it under 2 paragraphs if you expect me to take the time to read.

Wow. Talk about high-maintenance. If you don't want to read that's fine with me, but don't pretend to be interested in intellectual conversation when you obviously have no such interest. I find it intriguing that your idea of a conversation is limited to elevator talk. I am supposed to dumb things down for you because you don't have the mental capacity to read 11 paragraphs? What if I broke the exact same post up into 6 separate posts? Woluld that meet your criteria for a "conversation"? Or what if I abandoned the practice of separating my paragraphs? What if I combined the entire post into one run-on sentence? Would you respond to it then?

For some reason I suspect you would find another reason to duck my argument. And for good reason. Every time you try to make a point I squash it. And given that you cannot refute my post in the least I have no doubt you will find another reason to retreat. Hiding behind your own laziness will only work so long. Since you have trouble focusing for more than a minute, I suggest this:

<WARNING: Third paragraph follows. Read at your own risk.>

Start reading the post but stop after 1 minute. When that minute is up go play with your Legos. When you are able, come back to the computer and start reading for another minute. After a couple of hours you will have finished reading the post and building that Doll House out of Legos you always wanted. Then, maybe, you can abandon the world of the gallactically immature and participate in an adult conversation.

[JGrice02]

I can barely read multiple sentence posts let alone something in excess of 700 words. Good god. This is a message board not a thesis review panel.

Thesis are usually in excess of 25,000 words. 700 words is nothing.

[JGrice02]

Yeah if you look at the stats these players aren't upgrades. What they do better is defense. Anyways Ager I think you are underrating. He has already proven he can hit outside shots which is an upgrade over Daniels since Daniels couldn't make one to save his life. I think Devean George along with Buckner will see some minutes. Dallas would be able to backup Harris with Johnson if they decide to start Harris again against San Antonio. You can negate all these acquisitions all you want but in the end of the day Dallas is much better off with having their players rested during the season and being fresh for the playoffs.

When did I negate their acquisitions? I said from the beginning they did a great job of acquiring Johnsons and replacing other role players with cost-efficient players. They maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. That is a great offseason, especially considering how weak the FA market was this year. My contention was to counter the argument that their moves, recreating the depth of players 9-12 in the rotation, gave them significant separation over the Spurs. Aside from Johnson, I don't see upgrades at any position.

I agree that if Ager can hit outside shots that portion of his game would be an upgrade over Daniels. But let's not forget about Daniels inside game which is remarkable. Remember, you are comparing Daniels to a rookie with no NBA experience. Ager has a lot to prove before anyone can argue he is a upgrade over Daniels. He starts out a downgrade with the potential to be better.

And I completely agree with your assessment of Dallas' bench helping their core players stay fresh for the playoffs. In fact, I thought I said as much earlier. But how is that an improvement over last year? Wasn't that their strength a year ago when they had so many injuries? It was their depth that kept them in the hunt for the Midwest Division. They have always had great depth.

I like the moves Dallas made. They got replacement parts at a much cheaper price. I like the addition of Ager because they have enough depth to let him grow slowly. He could really pay off in a few years. But I think the only significant upgrade is Johnson at backup PG. He is a much better backup than Armstrong. The other acquisitions are replacing identical parts.

[mabber]

When did I negate their acquisitions? I said from the beginning they did a great job of acquiring Johnsons and replacing other role players with cost-efficient players. They maintained a deep bench at a cheaper price. That is a great offseason, especially considering how weak the FA market was this year. My contention was to counter the argument that their moves, recreating the depth of players 9-12 in the rotation, gave them significant separation over the Spurs. Aside from Johnson, I don't see upgrades at any position.

I agree that if Ager can hit outside shots that portion of his game would be an upgrade over Daniels. But let's not forget about Daniels inside game which is remarkable. Remember, you are comparing Daniels to a rookie with no NBA experience. Ager has a lot to prove before anyone can argue he is a upgrade over Daniels. He starts out a downgrade with the potential to be better.

And I completely agree with your assessment of Dallas' bench helping their core players stay fresh for the playoffs. In fact, I thought I said as much earlier. But how is that an improvement over last year? Wasn't that their strength a year ago when they had so many injuries? It was their depth that kept them in the hunt for the Midwest Division. They have always had great depth.

I like the moves Dallas made. They got replacement parts at a much cheaper price. I like the addition of Ager because they have enough depth to let him grow slowly. He could really pay off in a few years. But I think the only significant upgrade is Johnson at backup PG. He is a much better backup than Armstrong. The other acquisitions are replacing identical parts.

I agree with this for the most part. Although calling Daniel's inside game remarkable is a bit much IMO. The following is another perspective from a Mavs writer (in today's paper).

No big changes as Mavs pick up pieces

Coming off Finals trip, team hopes additions upgrade three positions


01:48 AM CDT on Monday, August 7, 2006

By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News

The Mavericks left the really big moves to others this summer.

A team that had a 2 3/4-game lead in the NBA Finals decided it liked a lot of what it already had. Much will look the same for 2006-07, from Dirk Nowitzki to re-signed free agent Jason Terry, from Josh Howard to the revolving, evolving center rotation.

But the changes the Mavericks made could be the difference between another Finals trip and a second-round exit. With 14 roster spots filled, the Mavericks have indicated most of the summer work is completed.

"We haven't quote, unquote arrived," said president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson, citing two vintage '80s dynasties. "We don't see ourselves as the Lakers with Magic, Kareem and Worthy or the Celtics with Bird, McHale and Parish that had perennial runs for eight years and contended for championships every season.

Mavericks / NBA

Mavericks roster
"The field is a lot more even, and the competition is stronger now. We can't afford to rest on our laurels."

The off-season plan was to upgrade at three positions, if possible.

The Mavericks sought to improve depth at point guard. They wanted two swingmen who could bring defense, athleticism and playoff experience. They hoped to acquire a power forward to back up Dirk Nowitzki who could shoot and help them spread the floor. Adding an athletic big man project was part of the equation, too.

Not everything came together like the Mavericks planned.

Top free-agent target Mike James spurned similar offers from the Mavericks and Houston to go to Minnesota.

But Anthony Johnson, brought to Dallas in a three-for-one trade with Indiana, is a tough-minded complementary point guard with enough talent to score 40 points in a playoff game last season.

Free agents Greg Buckner, once the Mavericks' defensive conscience, and Devean George, who has been to four Finals, were acquired under the $5.2 million mid-level exception. As a bonus, first-round pick Maurice Ager showed he has an NBA future in the Las Vegas summer league.

Backup power forward Austin Croshere, obtained for enigmatic Marquis Daniels, could be at least as productive as Keith Van Horn. Undrafted rookie Pops Mensah-Bonsu is a 6-9 athlete who will be given time to develop.

The lingering question: Do the Mavericks believe the team they have now is better than the team that finished the playoffs?

"I do," owner Mark Cuban wrote in an e-mail. "We have more depth and athleticism, and we have a lot more flexibility. I think our free-agent signings were the steal of the summer. We never expected we could get both Buck and Devean with our mid-level. We thought both were at least full mid-level, if not higher, players."

If this seems like tinkering around the edges, a little can mean a lot for elite teams.

What if the Mavericks had found some body (or somebody) to at least slow Dwyane Wade in the NBA Finals? Or what if San Antonio's Manu Ginobili doesn't foul Nowitzki at the end of regulation in Game 7 last season?

For now, the Mavericks believe they've answered enough what-ifs.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah if you look at the stats these players aren't upgrades. What they do better is defense.

I don't know that Anthony Johnson or Austin Croshere will ever be considered anything more than a pedestrian defender. Johnson is a good scoring PG, but he's never been a particularly good distributor or defender. He's steady enough, though, and you're right in thinking he may provide some improvement to the Mavs overall complexion. Croshere is tougher than Van Horn (he's a much, much better rebounder) and plays the game with far more intelligence, I think, but he's not as prolific a shooter and certainly not as consistent from behind the arc as Van Horn is. That strikes me as a wash.


Anyways Ager I think you are underrating. He has already proven he can hit outside shots which is an upgrade over Daniels since Daniels couldn't make one to save his life.

When has Ager proven that he can hit outside shots? In college? I don't know that I'd rely on that as an indicator of performance in the NBA -- Trajan Langdon was a wonderful perimeter shooter in college, but it never really translated to the NBA. I'd agree that Daniels is weak from distance and that Ager is likely to be an upgrade, but whether he'll actually get it done in the NBA is another question. This wasn't a particularly good draft and Ager was still around at the end of Round 1, which suggests to me that NBA teams have some questions about how well his game will translate. Teams have certainly been wrong before with guys like Josh Howard, Tony Parker, and Rashard Lewis, but Ager has some proving to do before he becomes a guy like one of those players. For his sake, I hope Ager proves you right, but I don't know that you can say that he's proven anything yet.


I think Devean George along with Buckner will see some minutes.

Sure, but at whose expense. We saw that when Dallas played the most formidable teams it faced last year, AJ had some decisions to make about how to use his various luxuries -- he canned Griffin during the San Antonio series, for example, because he needed to get minutes for Harris and Stackhouse. If they're going to play Buckner and George as regular rotation players at playoff time, they're going to be cutting into the minutes that could be used for someone else, and I can't see AJ doing that against San Antonio.


Dallas would be able to backup Harris with Johnson if they decide to start Harris again against San Antonio. You can negate all these acquisitions all you want but in the end of the day Dallas is much better off with having their players rested during the season and being fresh for the playoffs.

That's all fine and dandy, but you were leading the charge last season telling us how deep the Mavericks were and what a difference that would make. The Spurs went 10 deep most nights during the 2005-06 regular season, couldn't win back-to-backs to save their lives, and still had the best record in the West, despite the fact that Mavs fan was convinced all year that Dallas had the deeper team.

The Mavs are deeper, on paper. But the moves they've made have also made them older than they were last year -- Johnson, Croshere, George, and Buckner are all generally older than the guys they're replacing, and all of them are injury-prone to some degree -- all 4 missed at least 10 games last season with injury; by my count, none has played an entire 82 game season in recent memory.

Here's a tidbit: on most nights next season, the Spurs will have 3 guys on their bench who will be 26 years old or younger on opening night (Udrih, Bonner, and Butler); the Mavericks, when at their optimum, are likely to have only one such player (Ager).

[FromWayDowntown]

A Mav writer's perspective for what it's worth...

Wow Factor
Mavs' Roster Seems Loaded For '06

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com


Mike Fisher is a total Mavs homer and a complete hack.

[mabber]

I don't know that Anthony Johnson or Austin Croshere will ever be considered anything more than a pedestrian defender. Johnson is a good scoring PG, but he's never been a particularly good distributor or defender. He's steady enough, though, and you're right in thinking he may provide some improvement to the Mavs overall complexion. Croshere is tougher than Van Horn (he's a much, much better rebounder) and plays the game with far more intelligence, I think, but he's not as prolific a shooter and certainly not as consistent from behind the arc as Van Horn is. That strikes me as a wash.



When has Ager proven that he can hit outside shots? In college? I don't know that I'd rely on that as an indicator of performance in the NBA -- Trajan Langdon was a wonderful perimeter shooter in college, but it never really translated to the NBA. I'd agree that Daniels is weak from distance and that Ager is likely to be an upgrade, but whether he'll actually get it done in the NBA is another question. This wasn't a particularly good draft and Ager was still around at the end of Round 1, which suggests to me that NBA teams have some questions about how well his game will translate. Teams have certainly been wrong before with guys like Josh Howard, Tony Parker, and Rashard Lewis, but Ager has some proving to do before he becomes a guy like one of those players. For his sake, I hope Ager proves you right, but I don't know that you can say that he's proven anything yet.



Sure, but at whose expense. We saw that when Dallas played the most formidable teams it faced last year, AJ had some decisions to make about how to use his various luxuries -- he canned Griffin during the San Antonio series, for example, because he needed to get minutes for Harris and Stackhouse. If they're going to play Buckner and George as regular rotation players at playoff time, they're going to be cutting into the minutes that could be used for someone else, and I can't see AJ doing that against San Antonio.



That's all fine and dandy, but you were leading the charge last season telling us how deep the Mavericks were and what a difference that would make. The Spurs went 10 deep most nights during the 2005-06 regular season, couldn't win back-to-backs to save their lives, and still had the best record in the West, despite the fact that Mavs fan was convinced all year that Dallas had the deeper team.

The Mavs are deeper, on paper. But the moves they've made have also made them older than they were last year -- Johnson, Croshere, George, and Buckner are all generally older than the guys they're replacing, and all of them are injury-prone to some degree -- all 4 missed at least 10 games last season with injury; by my count, none has played an entire 82 game season in recent memory.

Here's a tidbit: on most nights next season, the Spurs will have 3 guys on their bench who will be 26 years old or younger on opening night (Udrih, Bonner, and Butler); the Mavericks, when at their optimum, are likely to have only one such player (Ager).

Johnson (31) is much younger than Armstrong (38), Croshere (31) is same age as Van Horn (31), Buckner (29) is younger than Griffin (32) and Ager (22) is younger than Daniels (25). George is only player we picked up that's older than who he's replacing (Powell or Marshall) and George is only 28 years old.

Buckner is the only one of the new guys that I would consider slightly injury prone and his games played has been much better over the last 2-3 years.

[Solid D]

I'll bet if Kori, timvp or a mod changed the title of this thread to something else like, "Spurs to win opener" or "lame arguments thread", it wouldn't keep ending up (or bumping up) at the top of Page 1. :rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

Johnson (31) is much younger than Armstrong (38), Croshere (31) is same age as Van Horn (31), Buckner (29) is younger than Griffin (32) and Ager (22) is younger than Daniels (25). George is only player we picked up that's older than who he's replacing (Powell or Marshall) and George is only 28 years old.

Johnson will be 32 on opening night and in a real sense, the guy he's replacing on the Mavericks' bench is Harris, not Armstrong. Buckner will be 30 on opening night, too. Many of your Mav fan colleauges are insistent that Tim Duncan is "old" because he's 30. I'm just noting that the same applies to the guys the Mavs have picked up this summer.

You're right about the Croshere/Van Horn combo -- for some reason, I had thought Croshere had been in the league a bit longer. Bad research on my part.

I'll also admit that I went too fast on saying that Buckner and Johnson missed more than 10 games last year -- Buckner missed 8 and Johnson missed 6.

[mabber]

Johnson will be 32 on opening night and in a real sense, the guy he's replacing on the Mavericks' bench is Harris, not Armstrong. Buckner will be 30 on opening night, too. Many of your Mav fan colleauges are insistent that Tim Duncan is "old" because he's 30. I'm just noting that the same applies to the guys the Mavs have picked up this summer.

You're right about the Croshere/Van Horn combo -- for some reason, I had thought Croshere had been in the league a bit longer. Bad research on my part.

I'll also admit that I went too fast on saying that Buckner and Johnson missed more than 10 games last year -- Buckner missed 8 and Johnson missed 6.

I hope he's not replacing Harris. I really don't know how that's gonna play out yet but either way Armstrong is being replaced by Johnson or Harris and both are much younger.

I think this is a ridiculous argument anyone as the only thing upgrading our depth is going to do is help in case of injuries and/or maybe rest players more in the regular season. I've just been making comments to certain posts for the hell of it anyway.

You know the Mavs pretty well for not following them as closely as I do but some of your fellow Spur posters are fairly clueless in regards to the Mavs. I generally stay away from talking about the Spurs in detail cuz I just don't know them as well as a lot of your Spur fans do.

[Mavs_man_41]

Wow. Talk about high-maintenance. If you don't want to read that's fine with me, but don't pretend to be interested in intellectual conversation when you obviously have no such interest. I find it intriguing that your idea of a conversation is limited to elevator talk. I am supposed to dumb things down for you because you don't have the mental capacity to read 11 paragraphs? What if I broke the exact same post up into 6 separate posts? Woluld that meet your criteria for a "conversation"? Or what if I abandoned the practice of separating my paragraphs? What if I combined the entire post into one run-on sentence? Would you respond to it then?

For some reason I suspect you would find another reason to duck my argument. And for good reason. Every time you try to make a point I squash it. And given that you cannot refute my post in the least I have no doubt you will find another reason to retreat. Hiding behind your own laziness will only work so long. Since you have trouble focusing for more than a minute, I suggest this:

<WARNING: Third paragraph follows. Read at your own risk.>

Start reading the post but stop after 1 minute. When that minute is up go play with your Legos. When you are able, come back to the computer and start reading for another minute. After a couple of hours you will have finished reading the post and building that Doll House out of Legos you always wanted. Then, maybe, you can abandon the world of the gallactically immature and participate in an adult conversation.

Is that supposed to be funny? I just dont feel like wasting 10 minutes replying to one of your essays. Just keep it short and to the point im not reading something 700 words long.

[Mavs_man_41]

The Mavs are deeper, on paper.

That's the point I have been trying to get across to JGrice throughout this entire thread. It would appear the mavs are a little deeper, but on paper doesnt always translate to on the court by any means. We will just have to wait and see if it holds up once the season gets going.

[confined]

I don't know that Anthony Johnson or Austin Croshere will ever be considered anything more than a pedestrian defender. Johnson is a good scoring PG, but he's never been a particularly good distributor or defender. He's steady enough, though, and you're right in thinking he may provide some improvement to the Mavs overall complexion. Croshere is tougher than Van Horn (he's a much, much better rebounder) and plays the game with far more intelligence, I think, but he's not as prolific a shooter and certainly not as consistent from behind the arc as Van Horn is. That strikes me as a wash.



When has Ager proven that he can hit outside shots? In college? I don't know that I'd rely on that as an indicator of performance in the NBA -- Trajan Langdon was a wonderful perimeter shooter in college, but it never really translated to the NBA. I'd agree that Daniels is weak from distance and that Ager is likely to be an upgrade, but whether he'll actually get it done in the NBA is another question. This wasn't a particularly good draft and Ager was still around at the end of Round 1, which suggests to me that NBA teams have some questions about how well his game will translate. Teams have certainly been wrong before with guys like Josh Howard, Tony Parker, and Rashard Lewis, but Ager has some proving to do before he becomes a guy like one of those players. For his sake, I hope Ager proves you right, but I don't know that you can say that he's proven anything yet.



Sure, but at whose expense. We saw that when Dallas played the most formidable teams it faced last year, AJ had some decisions to make about how to use his various luxuries -- he canned Griffin during the San Antonio series, for example, because he needed to get minutes for Harris and Stackhouse. If they're going to play Buckner and George as regular rotation players at playoff time, they're going to be cutting into the minutes that could be used for someone else, and I can't see AJ doing that against San Antonio.



That's all fine and dandy, but you were leading the charge last season telling us how deep the Mavericks were and what a difference that would make. The Spurs went 10 deep most nights during the 2005-06 regular season, couldn't win back-to-backs to save their lives, and still had the best record in the West, despite the fact that Mavs fan was convinced all year that Dallas had the deeper team.

The Mavs are deeper, on paper. But the moves they've made have also made them older than they were last year -- Johnson, Croshere, George, and Buckner are all generally older than the guys they're replacing, and all of them are injury-prone to some degree -- all 4 missed at least 10 games last season with injury; by my count, none has played an entire 82 game season in recent memory.

Here's a tidbit: on most nights next season, the Spurs will have 3 guys on their bench who will be 26 years old or younger on opening night (Udrih, Bonner, and Butler); the Mavericks, when at their optimum, are likely to have only one such player (Ager).

blah blah blah thats all i hear....cant ya just get ur point across in a nutshell? :spin

[FromWayDowntown]

I hope he's not replacing Harris. I really don't know how that's gonna play out yet but either way Armstrong is being replaced by Johnson or Harris and both are much younger.

Functionally, Johnson replaces Harris. Harris becomes the starter (presumably) and the spot that Harris once occupied on the bench will be assumed by Johnson, making Johnson the Harris replacement and not an Armstrong replacement. If the Mavs sign someone to be a 3rd point, that guy will be the Armstrong replacement in my mind.


I think this is a ridiculous argument anyone as the only thing upgrading our depth is going to do is help in case of injuries and/or maybe rest players more in the regular season.

I don't dispute the truth of any of that. It's like the ridiculous argument that matches up position by position to weigh the strengths of the players and claim that one team is better than another.

In the end, there's a monumental difference between the functional depth of a roster during the regular season and its depth in a playoff setting -- and I think playoff depth becomes largely a matter of flexibility and matchups.

The Spurs were deep enough to win 63 games last regular season, despite their issues with back-to-backs and limiting injuries to Duncan and Ginobili. Parker was a huge part of that, but the Spurs' bench was deep enough to make that happen on most nights. When they got into playoff situations, though, Sacramento and Dallas were able to exploit the weaknesses in the Spurs roster (lack of athleticism without going small and an inability of the small lineup to rebound well) and that doomed the Spurs because they didn't have the flexibility to adjust well to different styles of play.

I think the Spurs are far, far more flexible heading into 2006-07 than they proved to be in 2005-06. I think the Mavs are probably more talented from 1-12, but I think the Spurs are at least as talented as the Mavs from about 1-7 or 1-8 and I think the Spurs are far better situated to deal with the Mavs personnel than they were last year. (I also think the Spurs will still make another move to ensure that is true.)