Name 5 MLB's Better....I dare you..

[TheTruth]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/01/09/1136850337_0645.jpg


http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/185559.jpg


http://www.fanmonster.com/ravens/images/season/2003/2003_10_26_Broncos/6994345.jpg

[TheTruth]

Name a better starting Linebacking Corp......Please....


http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/probowl_wilson_051221.jpg

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/broncos/2004/2004dj.jpg

http://www.chieftain.com/archive/2005/oct/11/sptREDSKINS-BRONCOS.jpg

[Solid D]

Al Wilson is excellent, no doubt. 72 total tackles and 3 sacks with 1 fumble recovery. If you combine "mike" LBs with "will" and "sam" ILBs in the 3-4, then Wilson's got some pretty decent competition.

Here are 5 excellent ones:

Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher
Jonathan Vilma
Zach Thomas
London Fletcher


Here are some "no slouches"
Keith Brooking
Mike Vrabel
Donnie Edwards
Mike Peterson

[scott]

With Hall of Famers at every position (apparently), it's amazing the Broncos haven't won 15 straight Superbowls.

[TheTruth]

With Hall of Famers at every position (apparently), it's amazing the Broncos haven't won 15 straight Superbowls.
Oh yes, cause a top 5 linebacker in any given season is automatically a hall of famer. Why don't you just name 5 better middle linebackers and shut me up?

[TheTruth]

Al Wilson is excellent, no doubt. 72 total tackles and 3 sacks with 1 fumble recovery. If you combine "mike" LBs with "will" and "sam" ILBs in the 3-4, then Wilson's got some pretty decent competition.

Here are 5 excellent ones:

Ray Lewis - Yes, if healthy
Brian Urlacher - Maybe, if he were more consistent from year to year.Jonathan Vilma - Probably after this year.
Zach Thomas - 2 years ago.
London Fletcher - Naw

Here are some "no slouches"
Keith Brooking - No
Mike Vrabel - In the playoffs
Donnie Edwards - No
Mike Peterson - Close

[Jheum Jhang]

Shawn Merriman
lavar arrington
jeremiah trotter
zach thomas
ray lewis
brian urlacher
dat nguyen...(he from homeland like me......hehehehehe :hat )

[degenerate_gambler]

You shore got a purdy mouth..


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/dgnerate_gamblr/581146-sm.jpg

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5834838


When evaluating linebackers, you must remember one important fact: You can't trust tackle statistics.
Linebackers make lots of tackles, often more than 100 in a season. But some of those tackles come close to the line, while others occur after 15-yard gains. A linebacker who makes 50 tackles after six-yard gains isn't helping his team nearly as much as one who makes 30 tackles after two-yard gains.

What's more, linebackers on bad teams register more tackles than those on good teams. Bad teams allow opponents to hold the ball longer, which means more plays, which means more chances to hit someone. The league leader in tackles is often a good defender on a lousy team, not a great defender on a great team. Case in point: Jonathan Vilma.

At Football Outsiders, we differentiate between types of tackles. Stops are plays that prevent significant yardage; stops can be tackles, passes defensed, interceptions, or forced fumbles. (To qualify as a "Stop," a play must keep the offense from gaining 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent on second down, or 100 percent on third down.) Stop Rate is the percentage of a defender's tackles that are actually Stops. Defeats are tackles for a loss, turnovers, or plays that prevent a conversion on third or fourth down. We break Stops and Defeats down by run and pass plays, so we can see who is getting burned in coverage or leaving the field on passing downs.

Of course, even advanced tackle statistics have their limits. Despite fewer tackle opportunities, life is a lot easier for Dan Morgan, playing behind the Panthers' line, than it is for Vilma in New York. Linebackers have different roles in different systems and unique responsibilities in the middle (Mike), on the strong side (Sam), on the weak side (Will), or in a 3-4 scheme. When the statistics break down, we use the information gleaned from the Football Outsiders Game Charting Project, which analyzed tape from every single game from Weeks 1-16 of the 2005 season.

And while it was hard separating the 12th best linebacking corps from the 20th, picking the leader was a steel breeze.


1. Steelers
Bill Cowher has been developing excellent linebacking corps since the Gregg Lloyd/Kevin Greene days. Every year the Steelers lose a starter, but they just plug someone else in and keep going. Last season, they lost Kendrell Bell. Did you miss him? The Steelers didn't.

Joey Porter is almost as good as he says he is, and that's pretty darn good. He had 13.5 sacks if you count the postseason, and he is also effective in coverage. James Farrior put up MVP numbers in 2004 but was content to let other players get the glory last season. Larry Foote is so underrated that he's overrated, but he's great in zone coverage and pursuit. Clark Haggans is a good penetrator and big hitter who would have produced double-digit sacks if he didn't miss three games last year.

The Steelers' depth is excellent: James Harrison has been a productive part-timer for two seasons, while Clint Kriewaldt is a solid interior run defender.


2. Bears
Brian Urlacher has exceptional range, uncanny instincts, and great timing when he blitzes. He's not the best linebacker in the league at stacking inside running plays, but he's solid in pass coverage and a sure tackler. Lance Briggs led the league in Pass Stops last year (42) and had more total Stops (86) than Urlacher (80). Briggs is currently in Lovie Smith's doghouse for skipping a voluntary minicamp in a contract dispute, but he'll be back in the lineup when the games matter.

The rest of the Bears linebackers are nothing special, but there is depth here. Hunter Hillenmeyer is a good run defender who doesn't make many mistakes. Rookie Jamar Williams may be the top backup this season.


3. Chargers
The team spent the off-season trying to trade Donnie Edwards, who led all linebackers in pass tackles (72) and finished second in the NFL in Stops (94). Edwards is apparently too big for his britches, or something. He and fellow old-timer Randall Godfrey stay at home in the Chargers' 3-4 scheme, allowing Shawne Merriman and Shaun Phillips to rush the passer. Merriman is a star in the making, an exceptional athlete with multiple moves when blitzing and the ability to disrupt running plays. Philips is a situational pass rusher with a good mix of speed and pop. If Edwards gets traded or Godfrey can no longer cut it, Steve Foley and Matt Wilhelm are capable replacements.

4. Seahawks

Free agent Julian Peterson is the quintessential team player. When the 49ers ran out of healthy defensive backs last season, Peterson moved from linebacker to strong safety, and he played well. In Seattle, Peterson will get more support from his teammates and will have more opportunities to blitz. Lofa Tatupu played like a six-year veteran in his rookie season. He has great instincts and a knack for big plays. Fellow rookie sensation LeRoy Hill may move to the left side and replace D.D. Lewis. Hill can blitz or drop into coverage, while Lewis is more of a two-down run plugger. The Seahawks have great depth: Lewis, Kevin Bentley, Niko Koutouvides and Isaiah Kacyvenski all have starting experience.


5. Buccaneers
Linebacker is a thinking-man's position, particularly in a Cover-2 system, and Derrick Brooks and Shelton Quarles are two of the smartest defenders in the league. The savvy vets finished fifth and sixth in the NFL in total Stops (Quarles 89, Brooks 87). Time hasn't caught up with them yet. Ryan Nece, the youngster of the bunch, is fast but makes mistakes in coverage. The Bucs have several insurance policies if Brooks or Quarles starts to slip: Barrett Ruud, Marques Cooper, and free agent Jamie Winborn all have starting potential.


6. Giants
A late-season rash of injuries forced Tim Lewis to grab guys off the waiver wire and stick them in the lineup. This season, depth shouldn't be an issue.

Antonio Pierce, the Giants' best linebacker, recorded 99 tackles in 13 games; and 72 percent of them were Stops, giving him the highest Stop Rate among linebackers in the league. Free agent LaVar Arrington is a limited player who is at his best when attacking the line of scrimmage, but he could be a deadly weapon on a team that has two great pass rushing ends. Brandon Short, a former Giant coming off a two-year stint in Carolina, will likely battle aging Carlos Emmons in the Sam slot. Reggie Torbor and Alonzo Jackson looked OK in their 2005 December call-ups and will keep Lewis from having to put helmets on mannequins if the injury bug strikes again.


7. Bengals
The Bengals ranked first in the league in pass defense against opposing running backs, and their linebackers deserve much of the credit. Odell Thurman, Brian Simmons, and Landon Johnson are great fits in Marv Lewis' zone-coverage system, and Thurman is developing into one of the league's best middle linebackers.

Unfortunately, pass defense is just half of a linebacker's job, and the Bengals did a lousy job of stopping the run last year. Their front four shoulders much of the blame, but the Bengals lack a big thumper who can fill the hole. David Pollack replaced Johnson at the end of last season but is more of a situational blitzer than a full-time starter. With Thurman suspended for four games, Pollack will start on the strong side while Simmons moves to the middle. Rookie Ahmad Brooks may play a role right away.


8. Broncos
Ian Gold, Al Wilson, and D.J. Williams don't produce eye-popping tackle or sack totals because they are constantly dropping into coverage in Larry Coyer's defense. But all three are top athletes who excel at what they are asked to do. Gold and Wilson can cover most running backs and tight ends, and both are quick off the edge when they do blitz. D.J. Williams is the best athlete of the trio but is still learning. Veteran reserves Nate Webster and Keith Burns can start if they are called upon. Undrafted rookie Cameron Vaughn, a three-year starter at LSU, was a surprise in minicamps.


9. Dolphins
They used to say that Zach Thomas was a "system" player who succeeded because of Jimmy Johnson's defense. Last year the Dolphins' system changed radically, but Thomas was better than ever, finishing second in the NFL in rushing Stops (78). Thomas has lost a half-step, but rookie Channing Crowder was fast enough to pick up some of the slack. Donnie Spragan is an over-the-tight end run plugger who leaves the field on passing downs. Sedrick Hodge, Derrick Pope, and Mike Labinjo are nothing special off the bench.


10. Bills
Takeo Spikes tore his Achilles' tendon early in the year but should be back this season. Spikes is a Pro-Bowl caliber performer when healthy, and he's one of those motivator/tone setter guys (he yells a lot). London Fletcher is a ball hawk who can force turnovers and harass quarterbacks when he's free to roam the field. Unfortunately, Buffalo's tissue-paper defensive line doesn't offer him much protection. Angelo Crowell played well in Spikes' place last year and does a good job in pass coverage. He's expected to wrest a starting job from Jeff Posey. Backups Mario Haggan and Josh Stamer are career special teamers.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Merriman will be the next Seau.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wilson made about 5 solo tackles per game last year and about 6 total stops per game last year. Those are fairly pedestrian numbers for a middle linebacker in the NFL, where making stops are the name of the game.

By sheer numbers, Johnathan Vilma, Brian Urlacher, Zach Thomas, Donnie Edwards, Andra Davis, Shelton Quarles, Gary Brackett, Jeremiah Trotter, Keith Brooking, Mike Peterson, Nick Barnett, Lofa Tatupu, and James Farrior were all better. Numbers never tell the whole story -- guys who play on bad teams build up good tackle numbers sometimes because they're being beaten to death with between the tackles runs in 4th quarters; guys who play on good teams tend to not be on the field as much and frequently are playing with a lead, which means that opponents are more frequently throwing the ball to catch up. Still, you'd expect that to be an elite MLB in the NFL, one would have to compile more than 5 solo stops per game over the course of a season.

For now, if I was taking the overall picture into account, I'd take at least Vilma, Urlacher, Trotter, Tatupu, Zach Thomas, Mike Peterson, James Farrior, and Ray Lewis in front of Al Wilson. Probably just me, though.

[Obstructed_View]

Off the top of my head, Singletary, Butkus, Urlacher, Seau and Lambert.

[degenerate_gambler]

Off the top of my head, Singletary, Butkus, Urlacher, Seau and Lambert.


Damn.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I hope to God he was just talking present LB's and not comparing Wilson to some of those bad ass dudes.

[Solid D]

Shawne Merriman plays on the outside in a 3-4. As mentioned in my list, Donnie Edwards plays ILB.

Zach Thomas was excellent last year, with better production than Al Wilson, last season, as well as 2 seasons ago.

[cecil collins]

When evaluating linebackers, you must remember one important fact: You can't trust tackle statistics.
Linebackers make lots of tackles, often more than 100 in a season. But some of those tackles come close to the line, while others occur after 15-yard gains. A linebacker who makes 50 tackles after six-yard gains isn't helping his team nearly as much as one who makes 30 tackles after two-yard gains.
Yeah, London Fletcher has gotten a ton of tackles in the past, but I never considered him a top LB because he doesn't seem like a game changer. I don't consider Al Wilson top 5, but I guess I'm not a Bronco fan.

With Hall of Famers at every position (apparently), it's amazing the Broncos haven't won 15 straight Superbowls.
:lol There have been a lot of Bronco threads. Best team ever, watch. Seriously, I think they'll make the playoffs this year, but you never know with the damn west.

[Nacho Libre]

Damn.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I hope to God he was just talking present LB's and not comparing Wilson to some of those bad ass dudes.
just talking present day...

[Nacho Libre]

oops, forgot to log outta my troll

[Nacho Libre]

Mr. Al Wilson has possibly the 2 fastest outside linebackers in the game playing next to him as well as some pretty pedestrian defensive tackles playing in front of him.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Name a better starting Linebacking Corp......Please....

Named. No rebuttal.

[tlongII]

Lofa Tatupu. The Seahawks have the best linebackers in the NFL.

[stretch]

Ray Lewis
Derrick Brooks
Zach Thomas
Joey Porter
Donnie Edwards
Brian Urlacher
Takeo Spikes
Lavar Arrington
Jonathan Vilma
Jeremiah Trotter
Tedy Bruschi
Julian Peterson

[TheSanityAnnex]

Lofa Tatupu. The Seahawks have the best linebackers in the NFL.They have the fourth best in the league, sorry. And Lofa<<<<<Merriman. Who won the award again?

[Solid D]

Hey stretch, Joey Porter isn't inside.

[tlongII]

They have the fourth best in the league, sorry. And Lofa<<<<<Merriman. Who won the award again?

Seahawks>>>>>>>>>Chargers

[TheSanityAnnex]

Seahawks>>>>>>>>>ChargersIndeed. But last year is over and you have no trophy. Merriman still has his DROY.

[TheTruth]

Merriman will be the next Seau.
Too bad, like Seau, Merriman plays on the edge and isn't a part of this discussion.

[TheTruth]

Named. No rebuttal.
You talking about that article that you pulled from another site, and didn't come up with yourself? I didn't know I was supposed to rebut a person that scouts the NFL for a living. BUT, I'll try.

[TheTruth]

Shawn Merriman
lavar arrington - outside backer
jeremiah trotter - outside backer
zach thomas - great career. but getting pretty old.
ray lewis - injured all last year. Is better.
brian urlacher - last year he was, the two before that no.
dat nguyen...(he from homeland like me......hehehehehe :hat )

[TheSanityAnnex]

Too bad, like Seau, Merriman plays on the edge and isn't a part of this discussion.You said name a better LB core. I'm obviously a Charger fan so I simply used that article to show you. And the rankings that came along with it were nice.

[NorCal510]

raiders d is better than da broncos d period.

[TheTruth]

You said name a better LB core. I'm obviously a Charger fan so I simply used that article to show you. And the rankings that came along with it were nice.
Obviously the Charger are gonna put up more numbers, Being there are four of their linebackers in the 3 - 4 defense. And I can't deny the fact that the Chargers had the best run defense in the league last year, but you also can't deny that the Chargers have a MUCH better defensive line than the Broncos (who finished 2nd in Run defense).

Edwards is old and the chargers are one 4th round pick from giving him away. Godfrey is average at best, and totally replaceable. Merriman is a nice player playing the perfect scheme for him. Shaun Phillips had a nice year, but all he can really do is rush the passer.

[TheTruth]

raiders d is better than da broncos d period.
No denying it. Sapp is what puts them over the top. :smokin

[NorCal510]

No denying it. Sapp is what puts them over the top. :smokin
damn straight ninja. real talk.

[scott]

Anyway... Al Wilson may very well be a top 5 MLB (probably more like top 10), and the Broncos do have an elite LB squad.

I was just wondering why we needed like 40 Broncos threads.

[stretch]

Hey stretch, Joey Porter isn't inside.
ah, my apologies. i misread that it was for MLB, not just any linebackers.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

raiders d is better than da broncos d period.

oh really? Raiders D was dead last hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol :lol

[stretch]

oh really? Raiders D was dead last hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol :lol
while im not going to say the Raiders D is better than the Broncos, i think it has lots of potential. they will have a very good defense in a year or two. they just have so much youth, it will take time for them to develop. but they have a very young but talented secondary, and the addition of Michael Huff this year makes it even better. their linebacker core is also young, but talented, with Tyler Brayton and Kirk Morrison. Derrick Burgess had a great year last year at DE, and Warren Sapp is still a solid force, and Tommy Kelly is another young up and coming talent. i think this year, how far they go depends on how well Brooks plays with Moss. if he learns to just throw it deep to Moss, like Culpepper used to, they will be a dangerous team.

[tlongII]

Lofa is a MLB. He is a stud.

[Solid D]

Lofa is a MLB. He is a stud.

True.

[Brutalis]

Explain why they got owned in Miami last year...

[mardigan]

Raiders d is horrible, and Sapp is old and useless as well as them not having a secondary. At least the Broncos have Champ Bailey and a decent defense, their problem is their d line. I think that the combination of Bradie James, Akin Adoyele, Demarcus Ware , and either Singelton or Carpenter will be a formidable Linebacker crew. ANd no one even mentioned Mike Peterson, he is definately a top 5 middle linebacker.

[Solid D]

ANd no one even mentioned Mike Peterson, he is definately a top 5 middle linebacker.



Al Wilson is excellent, no doubt. 72 total tackles and 3 sacks with 1 fumble recovery. If you combine "mike" LBs with "will" and "sam" ILBs in the 3-4, then Wilson's got some pretty decent competition.

Here are 5 excellent ones:

Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher
Jonathan Vilma
Zach Thomas
London Fletcher


Here are some "no slouches"
Keith Brooking
Mike Vrabel
Donnie Edwards
Mike Peterson