T-Mac Says Finals was Rigged

[mavsfan1000]

http://www.sportsradio610.com/Article.asp?id=93926
Go to the 6 minute mark on this recording. :lol

[J.T.]

"You just got fined." :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

great to see that im not the only one that saw something out of the ordinary.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

"You just got fined." :lol

"i don't care" :lol

[J.T.]

I saw karma biting the Mavs in the ass. What did you see?

[Mavs_man_41]

I saw karma biting the Mavs in the ass. What did you see?

Why the fuck do u follow me around to every thread and say shit about my posts. Get off my ass and quit stalking me weirdo.

[NBA Junkie]

"i don't care" :lol

I bet his wife-to-be does.

[J.T.]

Why the fuck do u follow me around to every thread and say shit about my posts. Get off my ass and quit stalking me weirdo.

Lol two threads is following you around?

[johngateswhiteley]

http://www.sportsradio610.com/Article.asp?id=93926
Go to the 6 minute mark on this recording. :lol

...yeah, i agree with Tracy. not necessarily that it was rigged, but Dallas was jobbed. however, i don't give a damn....***newsflash*** dallas is a bunch of bitches and your city sucks donkey cock.

[Brad Wilkerson]

...yeah, i agree with Tracy. not necessarily that it was rigged, but Dallas was jobbed. however, i don't give a damn....***newsflash*** dallas is a bunch of bitches and your city sucks donkey cock.

eeeeh, me finds that offensive. because i eat chopped dongey balls for........deenner. hehehehehe :devil

[Jheum Jhang]

eeeeh, me finds that offensive. because i eat chopped dongey balls for........deenner. hehehehehe :devil

hey quit dryin do be me, no? u wouldnt eat no dongey ballz if zur life depended on it. hehehehehe :devil

[monosylab1k]

I saw karma biting the Mavs in the ass. What did you see?

it's pretty fucked up that "karma" is a deciding factor in the NBA Finals...not "may the best team win".

[monosylab1k]

newsflash*** dallas is a bunch of bitches and your city sucks donkey cock.

how is that a newsflash? even people who live in dallas hate the city of dallas (see myself).

but if dallas sucks donkey cock, what in the hell does houston do to it? one can only imagine...

[MrChug]

how is that a newsflash? even people who live in dallas hate the city of dallas (see myself).

but if dallas sucks donkey cock, what in the hell does houston do to it? one can only imagine...

I wouldn't compare Dallas to Houston. Houston has hung championship banners...all Dallas has hung is their head in defeat after the worst choke job in NBA Finals history.

[FromWayDowntown]

McGrady's statement is ridiculous. It's funny how in Mavsland, the curious calls and the wide FTA disparities in their favor in Round 2 were just part of the game and the sort of thing that the great teams overcome, while the same calls and margins in Round 4 were evidence of a wide-ranging conspiracy to fix the Finals to promote DWade and slap down Mark Cuban.

It's one or the other, but not both.

[CubanMustGo]

McGrady's statement is ridiculous. It's funny how in Mavsland, the curious calls and the wide FTA disparities in their favor in Round 2 were just part of the game and the sort of thing that the great teams overcome, while the same calls and margins in Round 4 were evidence of a wide-ranging conspiracy to fix the Finals to promote DWade and slap down Mark Cuban.

It's one or the other, but not both.

DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! LOGIC APPROACHING! DANGER!

[monosylab1k]

It's funny how in Mavsland, the curious calls and the wide FTA disparities in their favor in Round 2 were just part of the game

okay, do you want me to go ahead and post the FTA stats from the round 2 series, or do you want to do it and prove yourself wrong? i'll let you do the honorable thing and fall on your own sword, if you like.

[monosylab1k]

I wouldn't compare Dallas to Houston. Houston has hung championship banners...all Dallas has hung is their head in defeat after the worst choke job in NBA Finals history.

good point. but i was just talking about the actual cities in general, not just the sports teams.

and if we're talking sports franchises, Dallas has a little team called the Cowboys that scoreboards any other Texas sports franchise. Peace.

[Jheum Jhang]

okay, do you want me to go ahead and post the FTA stats from the round 2 series, or do you want to do it and prove yourself wrong? i'll let you do the honorable thing and fall on your own sword, if you like.

yeah Duncan made for FTs then the whole Mavericks team attempted. that doesnt make sense

[ChumpDumper]

Why are people still following the NBA when they insist it's rigged?

[FromWayDowntown]

okay, do you want me to go ahead and post the FTA stats from the round 2 series, or do you want to do it and prove yourself wrong? i'll let you do the honorable thing and fall on your own sword, if you like.

Look, I agree that the margins are overrated. But that's certainly among the complaints that fuel the Mavsfan conspiracy train; when the Mavs most needed that FTA attempt disparity to be in their favor -- the 4th Quarter of Game 3 against SA -- they outshot the Spurs 22-8 (and 50-32 for the game). The Spurs had significant margins in Games 5 and 6, but nothing as broad as what the Mavs got in Game 3. If the Heat's margin in Game 5 of the Finals was evidence of a conspiracy, was the Mavs' margin in Game 3 just evidence of a well-officiated game?

Ultimately, the calls in the Finals that still have Mavsfans in a tizzy are the same sorts of calls that went in the Mavs favor in the WCSF. Again, if the calls in Round 2 were just part of the game, I don't see how you can be intellectually honest and argue that the calls in the Finals evidenced some conpiracy.

I will grant you that I can see how you might be a sore loser and do that, but not intellectually honest.

[monosylab1k]

Look, I agree that the margins are overrated.

overrated? the grand total for the series was Spurs - 235, Mavs - 223. Duncan shot 90, Dirk shot 80. The Spurs attempted more free throws in 4 games, one game was even, and two games were in the Mavs favor. To say that there was ANY free throw disparity in that series is a TOTAL FABRICATION!!!


The Spurs had significant margins in Games 5 and 6, but nothing as broad as what the Mavs got in Game 3. If the Heat's margin in Game 5 of the Finals was evidence of a conspiracy, was the Mavs' margin in Game 3 just evidence of a well-officiated game?

Maybe not in that individual game, but over the course of the entire series, the Spurs got their fair share of calls. they had 2 games in which they attempted 10+ more free throws than Dallas. like i already said, they shot more free throws over the entire series, and their star player got more free throws than Dallas' star player did.

Meanwhile in the Finals, the Heat shot more free throws than the Mavs in 5 out of 6 games, one game by a margin of 24. Over the course of the series, the Heat averaged 34.5 FTA per game while the Mavs got 25.8 FTA per game. That's almost 9 more free throws a game! There's no fabrication there.

and of course Wade shot an average of 16 FT's a game. Dirk averaged 9.


if the calls in Round 2 were just part of the game, I don't see how you can be intellectually honest and argue that the calls in the Finals evidenced some conpiracy.

the calls in round 2 were even for both sides (regardless of how butchered the officiating job was). the numbers even suggest that the SPURS had the advantage.

the calls in the Finals were ridiculously slanted in the Heat's favor. there's no statistic that can deny that.

and there is no conspiracy, but I do think that Mavs fans have a legitimate reason to bitch about the officiating in the Finals, while Spurs fans have zero reason whatsoever to bitch about lopsided officiating in Round 2.

[judaspriestess]

the question is: what is NOT rigged towards ratings, shoe sales, sex etc?

When the ratings fall per say in a sport, then the following year you see big changes. Its all about money......

[Jheum Jhang]

think team only spurs is Texas? dotn so think bitch!

dont see any much heard of the ROckets? thats what i thought...

[Crookshanks]

Hey mono! This has been argued sooooo many times - it's not the total number of FTA, it's when they occurred! Ticky-tack calls that fouled out Tim at the end of one game and Manu in the next game, the really lame call on Bruce Bowen that allowed Dirk to win the game at the freethrow line. I really didn't see much of that in the Finals. And oh yeah, Wade had more FTA than Dirk because he drove hard to the basket on almost every possession. Dirk became timid and scared and settled for jump shots! Can we finally lay this topic to rest? It's getting reallllllllllly old!

[dirk4mvp]

That shit was rigged

Mavs '07 champs :smokin

[Rip-Hamilton32]

it wasn't rigger t-mac is an idiot

[midgetonadonkey]

Tracy Mcgrady is a douche. He sucks, his team sucks and he is just pissed about it.

[sa_butta]

think team only spurs is Texas? dotn so think bitch!

dont see any much heard of the ROckets? thats what i thought...You sound like Yoda:lol

[dav4463]

Hey mono! This has been argued sooooo many times - it's not the total number of FTA, it's when they occurred! Ticky-tack calls that fouled out Tim at the end of one game and Manu in the next game, the really lame call on Bruce Bowen that allowed Dirk to win the game at the freethrow line. I really didn't see much of that in the Finals. And oh yeah, Wade had more FTA than Dirk because he drove hard to the basket on almost every possession. Dirk became timid and scared and settled for jump shots! Can we finally lay this topic to rest? It's getting reallllllllllly old!

well said......let's read it again. Not total FTA, it's WHEN they occurred and even in the finals.....DIRK had a chance in the final seconds to win a game on the line and he choked. Blame your owner for influencing the league to call it so damn tight.......he took credit for it on Letterman while he talked about how Dallas was going to party....

[Obstructed_View]

The only thing that sucks harder than the Mavericks is their crybaby fans.

[stretch]

Tracy Mcgrady is a douche. He sucks, his team sucks and he is just pissed about it.
if he was pissed, why would he be pissed at the heat and be rooting for the mavs? that makes no sense.

[ChumpDumper]

Because Wade just leapfrogged him in popularity.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Are Mav fans aware that even in Mark Cuban's NBA there's no rule that says both teams should shoot the same number of free throws? Free throw differentials prove nothing, especially when your best player's nuts shrivel up on the NBA's biggest stage. That had more to do with the free throws than any preferential treatment the Heat were supposedly getting.

[monosylab1k]

Ticky-tack calls that fouled out Tim at the end of one game and Manu in the next game!

Ah, kind of like a ticky-tack tap to Michael Finley's shorts that got Jason Terry suspended for a crucial game...that kind of ticky-tack?

By the way, only twice did a player foul out during the series for the Spurs...five Mavericks fouled out and one was suspended for a game.

And I'm not saying that this series was well officiated...far from it. But BS calls benefited both teams, not just one (like the Finals). Taking individual calls out of context is not seeing the forest for the trees. Your team had more free throw attempts, your star player got better star treatment, nobody on your team got suspended for a crucial game on a technicality, and you had three fewer instances of a player fouling out of a game.


the really lame call on Bruce Bowen that allowed Dirk to win the game at the freethrow line. I really didn't see much of that in the Finals.

LOL what do you call games 5 and 6 of the finals? and how about game 5 of Round 2 when terry calls timeout and they call jump ball instead? How about tony parker yanking on dirk's jersey as he's trying to tip it in at the last second? How about the fact that Tim Duncan commits a foul every time he posts up a player on offense? your team got away with plenty of calls as well. which is fine, as long as it's even. and EVERY STATISTIC IN THE BOOK shows that the Spurs-Mavs series was evenly (and very poorly) officiated.

stats don't say the same thing about the Finals.

[ChumpDumper]

Since when are foul calls supposed to be even for both teams?

I'd like a link to that rule.

[monosylab1k]

Blame your owner for influencing the league to call it so damn tight

funny how out of one side of their mouths, Spurs fans call Mark Cuban the biggest moron alive...and out of the other, suddenly he's genius enough to influence a league that was a multi-billion dollar business before he was around into running things his way, even to the detriment of his own team...

[Obstructed_View]

Since when are foul calls supposed to be even for both teams?
Well, since a punch in the balls is a "tap"...

[monosylab1k]

Since when are foul calls supposed to be even for both teams?

I'd like a link to that rule.

here you go, homey. http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_guides.html?nav=ArticleList

notable is..."If all officials possess the same conception there will be a guaranteed uniformity in the administration of all contests."

also note..."The restrictions placed upon the player by the rules are intended to create a balance of play, equal opportunity for the defense and the offense"

foul calls don't have to be even, but according to the rulebook, if an official is doing his job propery, everything will balance out in the end. have a nice day.

[ChumpDumper]

foul calls don't have to be evenThank you.

[monosylab1k]

Well, since a punch in the balls is a "tap"...

and if tony parker hit jerry stackhouse in the balls with the same minimal amount of force as terry hit finley, and he got suspended for game 6 of that series, you wouldn't be bitching about it?

[monosylab1k]

Thank you.

your welcome. although i've said that many times already. do you pick and choose what you decide to read?

[ChumpDumper]

and if tony parker hit jerry stackhouse in the balls with the same minimal amount of force as terry hit finley, and he got suspended for game 6 of that series, you wouldn't be bitching about it?No. Only a complete idiot would defend punching a guy in the nuts during a professional basketball game.

[ChumpDumper]

your welcome. although i've said that many times already. do you pick and choose what you decide to read?I read it all. Your argument is based upon the number of fouls. And upon that it failed miserably.

[monosylab1k]

No. Only a complete idiot would defend punching a guy in the nuts during a professional basketball game.

very true. i'm glad i'm not a complete idiot in this regard. unless you can show me anywhere where i've defended jason terry's actions...

[monosylab1k]

I read it all. Your argument is based upon the number of fouls. And upon that it failed miserably.

re-read it. you've missed quite a bit.

[ChumpDumper]

re-read it. you've missed quite a bit.Nah, it's garden variety Mavbitch.

[Jheum Jhang]

Thank you.

:lmao

this guys great

[monosylab1k]

Nah, it's garden variety Mavbitch.

possibly so. but if you actually read it all in the first place you'd know that number of fouls was never the focal point. the FTA "disparity" was brought into the subject by a picklefucking Spurs fan who wanted to bitch about "garden variety Mavbitch".

might i suggest this? http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/ have a great day.

[ChumpDumper]

possibly so.Obviously so.
but if you actually read it all in the first place you'd know that number of fouls was never the focal point.Actually you are bitching that the Mavs were jobbed and should have had fewer fouls than actually were called in the supposedly evenly called series.

Great.

Go tap yourself in the balls.

[dirk4mvp]

:lol

[cecil collins]

and if tony parker hit jerry stackhouse in the balls with the same minimal amount of force as terry hit finley, and he got suspended for game 6 of that series, you wouldn't be bitching about it?
This is a defense of Terry's punching Finley in the balls. Otherwise, there would be no point in attempting to spin it to our point of view. And yes, if the same incident happened, only with Parker punching someone, I would expect him to be suspended. I would be pissed off that he did it, especially if he were always blabbing about god being the reason his team wins.

[monosylab1k]

Actually you are bitching that the Mavs were jobbed and should have had fewer fouls than actually were called in the supposedly evenly called series.

wrong again, sir...

On page 1 of this thread, post number 15, a certain "FromWayDowntown" said the following "It's funny how in Mavsland, the curious calls and the wide FTA disparities in their favor in Round 2 were just part of the game". I refuted this claim of wide FTA disparities (something brought up by a SPURS fan) by posting the actual numbers from the Round 2 series. I compared these to the Finals series, showing that if FTA disparity were an indicator of a team getting "screwed" then by all accounts the Mavs have a legitimate reason to bitch, not the Spurs.

After this, on post #25, noted Spurs fan "Crookshanks" claimed that "it's not the total number of FTA, it's when they occurred!" adding an exclamation point for emphasis. He also said that, in regard to a player being able to win a playoff game at the free throw line "I really didn't see much of that in the Finals." I pointed out the number fouls that the Spurs got away with in crucial situations, and also pointed out how Dwyane Wade won Finals games at the free throw line which negates what that noted Spurs fan had to say. I didn't use any exclamation points for emphasis, but I did use all caps on a few occasions.

My whole point of argument being this: there's no reason to bitch about the officials, but if anyone had a right to, it's Mavs fans and not Spurs fans. Also, Spurs fans are the absolute whiniest fuckface retards I've ever seen, as not only do they bitch outright about officials, but they also do it under the guise of "Mavs fans need to stop their bitching!"

so in essense, Spurs fans enjoy bitching about the officials while simultaneously bitching about the Mavs fans who bitch about officials

and note who my favorite team is. Not the Mavs, mister ChumpDumper (btw what the fuck does that even mean? you into scat with dudes or something?)

can't be garden variety Mavbitch when i root for a team as shitty as the Atlanta Hawks.

[dirk4mvp]

There's no point in arguing with ChumpDumper. He's just gonna call you a assface or mavbitch or whatever.

[ChumpDumper]

there's no reason to bitch about the officials, but if anyone had a right to, it's Mavs fans and not Spurs fans.:lmao

There is no reason to bitch about the refs, but the Mavs had a reason to bitch about the refs.

:lmao
can't be garden variety Mavbitch when i root for a team as shitty as the Atlanta Hawks.There are plenty of folks who lie about their team.

[cecil collins]

the question is: what is NOT rigged towards ratings, shoe sales, sex etc?

When the ratings fall per say in a sport, then the following year you see big changes. Its all about money......
Yup, sports don't tend to pander to the real fans, they want money.

[monosylab1k]

There are plenty of folks who lie about their team.

like you?

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah. I'm also a Mavfan.

[dirk4mvp]

:lol

[monosylab1k]

Yeah. I'm also a Mavfan.

:tu good for you

[photoguy]

http://www.askmen.com/men/sports_60/pictures/tracy_mcgrady/tracy_mcgrady_150.jpg

[mardigan]

T Mac also said he could put a big hit on an NFL player, and would be a great reciever, and that he was getting hits off of Roger Clemens, so I dont think there is to much merrit to what he says

[monosylab1k]

T Mac also said he could put a big hit on an NFL player, and would be a great reciever, and that he was getting hits off of Roger Clemens, so I dont think there is to much merrit to what he says

good point.

[dirk4mvp]

:tu

[cheguevara]

No shit. Ask Tmac about the Mavs-Spurs series. that shit was rigged too

[dirk4mvp]

Spurs fans still mad they got their asses tore up.

And yes, it was rigged. Rigged for the Spurs to win. But they didn't. That's poor shit.

[cheguevara]

No. Mav fans still crying on a "Spurs Forum" is poor shit. :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

wrong again, sir...

On page 1 of this thread, post number 15, a certain "FromWayDowntown" said the following "It's funny how in Mavsland, the curious calls and the wide FTA disparities in their favor in Round 2 were just part of the game". I refuted this claim of wide FTA disparities (something brought up by a SPURS fan) by posting the actual numbers from the Round 2 series. I compared these to the Finals series, showing that if FTA disparity were an indicator of a team getting "screwed" then by all accounts the Mavs have a legitimate reason to bitch, not the Spurs.

My point was never to cite the entire series as evidence of even officiating. Mavfan bitches about the disparity the Heat enjoyed in Game 5 of the Finals as if no team in NBA history has ever had to deal with home cooking to that degree. My point was (and for the purposes of this thread has been) that just as the Heat enjoyed a significant advantage in that game and Mav fan feels screwed because of it, Spurs fans have reason to feel the same way about a rather pivotal Game 3 of the West Semis.

You're the one who's tried to inject notions of overall equity in FTA and things like that, presuming that my argument implicated any of that. It didn't.

My point all along was just as the Mavs feel that's there's evidence that they were on the wrong end of some conspiracy to bring a title to Miami, Spurs fans have rather similar evidence to support a similar inference. Mavs fans had no problem telling Spurs fans how they should deal with those facts; but faced with similar facts, some Mavs fans have run around screaming conspiracy and fix. It's patently ridiculous.


My whole point of argument being this: there's no reason to bitch about the officials, but if anyone had a right to, it's Mavs fans and not Spurs fans. Also, Spurs fans are the absolute whiniest fuckface retards I've ever seen, as not only do they bitch outright about officials, but they also do it under the guise of "Mavs fans need to stop their bitching!"

It's a fairly natural reaction to seeing Mavs fans faced with oddly similar facts but reaching very, very different conclusions from those facts.

When, after Game 3 of the WCSF, some Spurs fans were up-in-arms about the Mavericks' FTA disparity in that pivotal game and some curiously ticky-tack fouls called only on one end in the late stages of that game, most Mavs fans were telling Spurs fans to STFU.

Curiously, when, after Game 5 of the Finals, some Mavs fans were up-in-arms about the Heat's FTA disparity in that pivotal game and some curiously ticky-tack fould called only on one end in the late stages of that game, most Mavs fans felt justified in complaining and didn't see the coincidental change in perspective brought about by having their ox gored, as it were.

You choose to discount that difference by looking to the totality of each series, but those were the points at which the contentions from both Spurs fans and Mavs fans were at their greatest. In neither circumstance did the argument depend on the course of the series; in each case, it related solely to a particular game and, really, particular portions of that game. In each case, the game happened to be pivotal (the Spurs with a chance to regain HCA and momentum in Game 3; the Mavs with a chance to have a close-out opportunity in Game 6 or face elimination). In each case, the arguments were rooted in similar claims of impropriety. I don't see how one can honestly distinguish those events and reach different conclusions about them.

Frankly, I think complaints about officiating dictating outcomes are weak and utterly ridiculous. I think great teams do overcome even bad officiating and lopsided margins in categories like FTA and fouls called. That's why those teams are great. My only point in engaging in this discussion is to point out the utter, utter duplicity in accepting or making the complaints made by some Mavs fans about Game 5 of the Finals while characterizing the completely similar complaints of some Spurs fans after Game 3 of the WCSF as whining.

[dirk4mvp]

No. Mav fans still crying on a "Spurs Forum" is poor shit. :lol

Surely you're not reffering to me, good sir, for I have not bestowed upon thy defeat.

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs fans still mad they got their asses tore up.

And yes, it was rigged. Rigged for the Spurs to win. But they didn't. That's poor shit.
Typical Mavs bandwagon fan bullshit. When the Mavericks win, it's because they overcame, but when they lose, it's because everybody cheats. And oh by the way Mark Cuban did more for the Mavs than buy everybody a playstation. :lol

Maybe someone should just make a lunch menu list of the same old tired Mavs fan garbage and then the morons that come here can just post a number.

[dirk4mvp]

Sure.

So this is all Spurs bandwaggon bullshit also. "Oh the refs are why we lost to the mavs, not because the players kicked our asses" Talk about bullshit :rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

can't be garden variety Mavbitch when i root for a team as shitty as the Atlanta Hawks.


:lmaoThere are plenty of folks who lie about their team.

"I'm a Mavs fan . . . ." (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1050770&postcount=17)

:tu

[monosylab1k]

"I'm a Mavs fan . . . ." (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1050770&postcount=17)

:tu

Never said i wasn't a Mavs fan. I live in Dallas so I will root for the Mavs. I DID say that my favorite team is the Hawks, which they are. Also note in that thread you found that many times I said that the officials were not to blame for the Finals loss. Get it right before making assumptions, dumbfuck.

[FromWayDowntown]

Never said i wasn't a Mavs fan. I live in Dallas so I will root for the Mavs. I DID say that my favorite team is the Hawks, which they are. Also note in that thread you found that many times I said that the officials were not to blame for the Finals loss. Get it right before making assumptions, dumbfuck.

I made no assumptions. I simply noted your previous assertion, which came to me by happenstance.

Have a nice day.

[dirk4mvp]

:lol

[crgassoc]

:spin I'm enjoying this. :spin

[monosylab1k]

My point all along was just as the Mavs feel that's there's evidence that they were on the wrong end of some conspiracy to bring a title to Miami, Spurs fans have rather similar evidence to support a similar inference.

If it's all about ONE GAME, then sure, game 3 of round 2 and game 5 of the Finals are very similar. when referring to the ENTIRE SERIES, it's bullshit. the numbers would suggest that the Spurs and Mavs played a fairly even series while in the Finals, the Heat were the benefactor of very lopsided officiating.

If it happened the whole series (like the Finals) then maybe you'd have a reason to bitch about it, and to bitch about Mavs fans bitching. Seeing how it didn't (unlike the Finals) I don't see how you have any point whatsoever.

And since you're so good at digging up old posts of mine, why don't you find the one where I talk about just how fuckin' stupid most Mavs fans are?


You choose to discount that difference by looking to the totality of each seriesIn neither circumstance did the argument depend on the course of the series; in each case, it related solely to a particular game and, really, particular portions of that game. In each case, the game happened to be pivotal (the Spurs with a chance to regain HCA and momentum in Game 3; the Mavs with a chance to have a close-out opportunity in Game 6 or face elimination). In each case, the arguments were rooted in similar claims of impropriety. I don't see how one can honestly distinguish those events and reach different conclusions about them.

I don't see many Mavs fans bitching about that one game. They bitch about the Finals as a whole. If that one game was the only instance of lopsided officiating, it would be the same situation.


Frankly, I think complaints about officiating dictating outcomes are weak and utterly ridiculous.

Agreed 100%. But yet it still seems like you're bitching about Mavs fans while continuing to bring up game 3, in essence bitching about game 3. if it really doesn't matter, if you say you're not gonna bitch about it, then don't fuckin bring that shit up anymore. Cuz in the end, in every series (including the Finals), the team that deserved to win ended up winning. end of story. don't bring up another team's bitching when you're doing plenty of bitching yourself.

[monosylab1k]

I made no assumptions. I simply noted your previous assertion, which came to me by happenstance.

Have a nice day.

LOL. i enjoy your comedy, sir.

[Obstructed_View]

Mavs homer masquerading. Perhaps the Hawks weren't the best choice to increase one's street cred.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

i think everyone should just shut up and wait for next season to start its over give it up already nothing you say or do is gonna change the outcome..

[monosylab1k]

Mavs homer masquerading. Perhaps the Hawks weren't the best choice to increase one's street cred.

Not quite. just a Mavs fan cuz I live in Dallas, but a bigger Hawks fan. one thing I'll side with Mavs fans is that I fucking hate the Spurs. Not sure what street cred has to do with it, but if it does, the folks in Atlanta definitely got alot more of it than anybody in SA.

[FromWayDowntown]

If it's all about ONE GAME, then sure, game 3 of round 2 and game 5 of the Finals are very similar. when referring to the ENTIRE SERIES, it's bullshit. the numbers would suggest that the Spurs and Mavs played a fairly even series while in the Finals, the Heat were the benefactor of very lopsided officiating.

Sure. I never referred to the whole series with regard to the Spurs and Mavericks. And I don't recall Mavs fans doing much complaining about officiating -- other than the usual crap that ensues from the chorus on one side after a playoff loss -- until Game 5. The Mavs had only themselves to blame for losing Game 3 and they had a 7 point 4th Quarter (that was not impacted in any way by officiating) to blame for their Game 4 loss.


If it happened the whole series (like the Finals) then maybe you'd have a reason to bitch about it, and to bitch about Mavs fans bitching. Seeing how it didn't (unlike the Finals) I don't see how you have any point whatsoever.

But that's the point -- it didn't happen for the whole series in the Finals. Yes, the Heat shot more free throws over the course of 6 games. But in Games 1-4 of the Finals, there were 98 fouls called on the Mavericks and 97 on the Heat. The FTA disparity is largely a matter of circumstance, but if you wanted to look at a number as indicative of overbearing officiating, the personal fouls category strikes me as more persuasive. And there, until Game 5, there was no meaningful disparity.


And since you're so good at digging up old posts of mine, why don't you find the one where I talk about just how fuckin' stupid most Mavs fans are?

Feel free to post that. I'm not at all inclined to dig through your old posts. Like I say, I happened upon that particular post by coincidence and coincidence only.


I don't see many Mavs fans bitching about that one game. They bitch about the Finals as a whole. If that one game was the only instance of lopsided officiating, it would be the same situation.

I'm not sure how they could bitch about the Finals as a whole except in some fit of revisionist history. The Mavs had the FTA advantage in Game 1 and were called for fewer personal fouls. In Game 2, they were behind by only 4 in FTA and won the game -- I doubt there was much bitching about the officiating at that point. In Game 3, Dirk was on the line in the closing seconds with a chance to win the game for his team and choked; again, not really a matter of officiating, though I suppose one could argue that the Heat did shoot more free throws while being called for fewer fouls -- but in Game 3, those differentials were relatively small and not surprising for an NBA playoff game (Heat were +8 in FTA and Mavs were +6 in personal fouls). Game 4, again, had nothing do with officiating unless the officials were somehow keeping the Mavs shooters from finding the bottom of the net.

Jaded by the feeling that they were screwed in Game 5, Mavs fans who are so inclined have apparently decided that the conspiracy was afoot before the Finals even started, despite the facts to the contrary.


Agreed 100%. But yet it still seems like you're bitching about Mavs fans while continuing to bring up game 3, in essence bitching about game 3. if it really doesn't matter, if you say you're not gonna bitch about it, then don't fuckin bring that shit up anymore. Cuz in the end, in every series (including the Finals), the team that deserved to win ended up winning. end of story. don't bring up another team's bitching when you're doing plenty of bitching yourself.

I've never once bitched about Game 3. The Spurs had their chances to win and didn't. It happens.

My sole point, again, is that for every Mavs fan who is inclined to bitch about the 2 game officiating issue that existed in the Finals, there is a Spurs fan who can say the same things about the WCSF. Since the arguments are identical, it seems to me that one group can't be bitching if the other is lodging principled complaints. I disagree with both groups and think that anyone who thinks the Finals were rigged is a complete fool. I wish they'd all cut it out and move on. But I'm certainly inclined to stick up for my friends who choose to pursue that argument if some fan calls my friends duplicitous while seeing the reasoning behind the complaints of Mavs fans.

[mavsfan1000]

It is true the spurs got the short end of the calls against the mavs at certain times but the mavs could also complain about game 6 and 7 about the refs vs. the spurs. Luckily they won game 7 despite the horrendous calls that got the spurs back in the game. It got to the point in the mavs and heat series where you expect Wade to get all the calls and Dirk to get very few. The FT disparity became ridiculous from game 3 and on. I know 1 bad call here and there is expected but not consistent bad calls that happen to the mavs in 4 straight games.

[monosylab1k]

The FTA disparity is largely a matter of circumstance, but if you wanted to look at a number as indicative of overbearing officiating, the personal fouls category strikes me as more persuasive.

I would strongly disagree with this, but it's not worth wasting time over at this point. I'm sick of Mavs fans screaming conspiracy, and I'm sick of Spurs fans bitching about getting screwed, but mostly i'm sick of the Spurs fans because I hate the Spurs. And "coincidence" my ass, you know what you were trying to imply, but whatever. I freely admit that I hate the Spurs and like the Mavs. and the Hawks more than either of them.

[ChumpDumper]

don't bring up another team's bitching when you're doing plenty of bitching yourself.

[Beer is Good]

Why are people still following the NBA when they insist it's rigged?
Because it provides first class "WWE like" entertainment by guessing which team the commish is gonna wreak havoc on next. That little bastard!!

[monosylab1k]

...your point?

[monosylab1k]

Because it provides first class "WWE like" entertainment by guessing which team the commish is gonna wreak havoc on next. That little bastard!!

plus, rigged or not, it's also less boring than baseball, hockey, or soccer.

[sprrs]

here you go, homey. http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_guides.html?nav=ArticleList

notable is..."If all officials possess the same conception there will be a guaranteed uniformity in the administration of all contests."

also note..."The restrictions placed upon the player by the rules are intended to create a balance of play, equal opportunity for the defense and the offense"

foul calls don't have to be even, but according to the rulebook, if an official is doing his job propery, everything will balance out in the end. have a nice day.

OK so if one team is intentionally fouling the hell out of another team, and get called for it, the refs should call the same amount of fouls for a team that doesn't commit any, just to keep it even?

Smart.

[ChumpDumper]

Every game should end in a tie, apparently.

That would be uniform.

[mabber]

There's no way that the finals were rigged in any way, but it's amazing how that thought has taken on a life of it's own all around the country (much more so than even with some Mav fans). There are a lot of morons out there! Stern has a PR problem because of this even though it's total BS.

[mardigan]

This whole argument is stemming from a guy who cant finish a season. The Spurs lost, big fucking deal, the series wasnt rigged, we just lost. And if Mavs fans really think the finals were rigged, thats fine because they are just making excuses for their team with no heart, discipline, or maturity. And Cuban will never win a championship because his team has taken on his traits. Thank god for the Cowboys or Dallas would be 100% douchebag as apposed to 75-80. Oh, and congrats on Devean George, Austin Croshere, and Anthony Johnson, Mavs making moves since 2000

[monosylab1k]

OK so if one team is intentionally fouling the hell out of another team, and get called for it, the refs should call the same amount of fouls for a team that doesn't commit any, just to keep it even?

Smart.

And why exactly would one team intentionally foul the hell out of the other? Wherein lies the strategy to win the game? This is the same dipshit mentality that led people to say "well if the cowboys are undefeated when Emmitt Smith runs the ball over 20 times in a game, why don't they just run it the first 20 plays and they'll be guaranteed a win!" Dumbass.

And in the rare time when both teams are "intentionally fouling the hell out of each other", but only one team is getting called for the fouls, then obviously something fucked up is going on.

[ChumpDumper]

There are a lot of morons out there!Mavfan is wise.

[monosylab1k]

Every game should end in a tie, apparently.

That would be uniform.

every game should end with the best team winning, not the team that gets the majority of the calls.

[monosylab1k]

Thank god for the Cowboys or Dallas would be 100% douchebag as apposed to 75-80.

The Cowboys did go out and get T.O. however...does that affect the douchebag meter any?

[ChumpDumper]

every game should end with the best team winning, not the team that gets the majority of the calls.So the team that gets the minority of the calls should win!

Eureka!

[mardigan]

Not until he bitch slaps Bledsoe, I think Vanderjagt affects the meter even more though

[ChumpDumper]

The Cowboys did go out and get T.O. however...does that affect the douchebag meter any?That's the desperation meter.

[monosylab1k]

So the team that gets the minority of the calls should win!

Eureka!

LOL and how did you come to that conclusion?

[monosylab1k]

Not until he bitch slaps Bledsoe, I think Vanderjagt affects the meter even more though

good point. i forgot all about him.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL and how did you come to that conclusion?You did.

[Jheum Jhang]

ChumpDumper shitting on you face. hehehehehehe :hat

[monosylab1k]

You did.

where exactly did I say that? I recall saying that the best team should win. not the one that gets the majority of the calls, certainly not the one that gets the minority of the calls. Is this your third grade level reading comprehension kicking in again?

[ChumpDumper]

Aw, don't get angry Mavfan. It's a shame the Mavs won the Spurs series by 18 fouls and lost the Heat series by 18 fouls. A damn shame.

Turns out the Heat was the best team. Go figure.

[monosylab1k]

Aw, don't get angry Mavfan. It's a shame the Mavs won the Spurs series by 18 fouls and lost the Heat series by 18 fouls. A damn shame.

Turns out the Heat was the best team. Go figure.

Evidently so. At what point in my getting "angry" can I make a crude joke about your mother? I've got a good one. It involves your mom's bloodied vagina, the AIDS virus, Fidel Castro, and at least three violent uses of the word "fuck". Just let me know when.

[ChumpDumper]

She's dead.

[monosylab1k]

She's dead.

Even better. Now it's a necrophilia joke too. Please advise.

[ChumpDumper]

I understand that's all you have left.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

5 pages of garbage.

[monosylab1k]

I understand that's all you have left.

Thank you for your understanding, I appreciate it.

Here goes...

[sprrs]

And why exactly would one team intentionally foul the hell out of the other? Wherein lies the strategy to win the game? This is the same dipshit mentality that led people to say "well if the cowboys are undefeated when Emmitt Smith runs the ball over 20 times in a game, why don't they just run it the first 20 plays and they'll be guaranteed a win!" Dumbass.

And in the rare time when both teams are "intentionally fouling the hell out of each other", but only one team is getting called for the fouls, then obviously something fucked up is going on.

It's hypothetical, dumbass.

SUPPOSE one team commited twice as many fouls as another team, should the refs call just as many fouls to the team that didn't commit as many fouls to keep it even.

[monosylab1k]

It's hypothetical, dumbass.

SUPPOSE one team commited twice as many fouls as another team, should the refs call just as many fouls to the team that didn't commit as many fouls to keep it even.

well hypothetically doesn't mean shit. hypothetically, mark madsen could average 92 points a game next season and lead his team to an 82-0 record and a title.

show me a game where one team legitimately commited twice as many fouls. and by "show me" i mean find the game tape, mark where each foul for each team is committed, put it all on a chart, have it signed off by an NBA official and notary public, and get the evidence patented.

[ChumpDumper]

and by "show me" i mean find the game tape, mark where each foul for each team is committed, put it all on a chart, have it signed off by an NBA official and notary public, and get the evidence patented.Why don't you do that with the finals game and maybe I'll start to entertain your little conspiracy theories.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

well hypothetically doesn't mean shit. hypothetically, mark madsen could average 92 points a game next season and lead his team to an 82-0 record and a title.

show me a game where one team legitimately commited twice as many fouls. and by "show me" i mean find the game tape, mark where each foul for each team is committed, put it all on a chart, have it signed off by an NBA official and notary public, and get the evidence patented.
That's an extremely reasonable standard of proof you've got there! Why don't you "show me" a game where one team legitimately commited about as many fouls as the other team?

[sprrs]

well hypothetically doesn't mean shit. hypothetically, mark madsen could average 92 points a game next season and lead his team to an 82-0 record and a title.

show me a game where one team legitimately commited twice as many fouls. and by "show me" i mean find the game tape, mark where each foul for each team is committed, put it all on a chart, have it signed off by an NBA official and notary public, and get the evidence patented.

Answer the question.

[Hook Dem]

Enough of this shit!!!! FUCK THE MAVERICKS!

[monosylab1k]

Why don't you do that with the finals game and maybe I'll start to entertain your little conspiracy theories.

no conspiracy theories from me. but if i ever develop one, i'll get on it. i already know a notary public, so i'm one step ahead of the game.

[monosylab1k]

Answer the question.

Which one, the one where a team devises the brilliant strategy of "intentionally fouling the hell out of the other team" or the one where a team is so incompetent at basketball that they foul the other team twice as much?

[monosylab1k]

That's an extremely reasonable standard of proof you've got there!

haha i know.


Why don't you "show me" a game where one team legitimately commited about as many fouls as the other team?

i'm too lazy to do that. but stupid Mavs and even more stupid Spurs fans that bitch about the refs need to shut up, cuz every team is getting screwed by the refs.

[sprrs]

Nevermind, I've proven my point.

[monosylab1k]

Nevermind, I've proven my point.

your point being...? as far as i can see, your point is that ridiculous hypotheticals are fun to make up.

[sprrs]

sure, that was my point.

[waterbottle2000]

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/8659/128174252674li.gif

[baseline bum]

When Dallas lives by the refs, they die by them too. :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Mavs homer masquerading. Perhaps the Hawks weren't the best choice to increase one's street cred.Really. And back on MavJerkoff.com or whatever, he's bragging to his boys about how he's schooling us all.

[NBA Junkie]

T-Mac is jealous cuz' he's never gotten any of his teams past the 1st round of the playoffs.

At least KG was able to do it once. :rolleyes

[baseline bum]

Seriously, how can a Mavs fan blame anyone but their own team? They're up 2-0 with a 13 point lead with 6 minutes to go in game 3, and they blew it. That's straight up choking. No amount of homecooking can reverse a series like that. As soon as Wade overcame his flu, series over. Wade spotted you 2 7/8 games, and he still came out on top. It's pretty clear the best team won.

[waterbottle2000]

im somewhat of a mavs fan
and i blame dirk for not stepping it up when it counted
and avery for whatever the hell he was doing
and howard for being dumb
and van horn for being van horn

[ShoogarBear]

Seriously, how can a Mavs fan blame anyone but their own team? Conditioned response.

[Mavs_man_41]

Blah Blah Blah......shitty officiating......Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.......

[waterbottle2000]

it was van horns fault

[TDfan2007]

overrated? the grand total for the series was Spurs - 235, Mavs - 223. Duncan shot 90, Dirk shot 80. The Spurs attempted more free throws in 4 games, one game was even, and two games were in the Mavs favor. To say that there was ANY free throw disparity in that series is a TOTAL FABRICATION!!!



Maybe not in that individual game, but over the course of the entire series, the Spurs got their fair share of calls. they had 2 games in which they attempted 10+ more free throws than Dallas. like i already said, they shot more free throws over the entire series, and their star player got more free throws than Dallas' star player did.

Meanwhile in the Finals, the Heat shot more free throws than the Mavs in 5 out of 6 games, one game by a margin of 24. Over the course of the series, the Heat averaged 34.5 FTA per game while the Mavs got 25.8 FTA per game. That's almost 9 more free throws a game! There's no fabrication there.

and of course Wade shot an average of 16 FT's a game. Dirk averaged 9.



the calls in round 2 were even for both sides (regardless of how butchered the officiating job was). the numbers even suggest that the SPURS had the advantage.

the calls in the Finals were ridiculously slanted in the Heat's favor. there's no statistic that can deny that.

and there is no conspiracy, but I do think that Mavs fans have a legitimate reason to bitch about the officiating in the Finals, while Spurs fans have zero reason whatsoever to bitch about lopsided officiating in Round 2.


I would hope that Tim shoots more FT's than Dirk. Tim is a post up forward who attacks the basket, while Dirk is a jumpshooting forward who got a call seemingly every time he decided to attack.

As a whole the Mavs are a very jumpshot prone team while the Spurs and Heat are attacking teams which is why they get the calls.

Oh, and one more thing. There's a reason why the Heat shot more FT's than the Mavs... BECAUSE THE MAVS FOUL SHAQ ALMOST EVERY TIME HE TOUCHES THE BALL AND THE HEAT's STAR PLAYER ATTACKS THE BASKET LIKE A MADMAN!

[monosylab1k]

Really. And back on MavJerkoff.com or whatever, he's bragging to his boys about how he's schooling us all.

you're fuckin' right i am. and they're all laughing at you over the internets.

[monosylab1k]

I would hope that Tim shoots more FT's than Dirk. Tim is a post up forward who attacks the basket, while Dirk is a jumpshooting forward who got a call seemingly every time he decided to attack.

And your hopes were fulfilled, as Timmy "I've Never Commited A Foul & Never Missed A Shot In My Life Without Getting Fouled, And My Bug Eyes And Upturned Palms Prove It" Duncan did indeed shoot more free throws than the European pussy.

[Obstructed_View]

Is this a record for most times a Mavs homer got owned in a single thread? :lol

[LEONARD]

Any Mavs fan that blames the refs is a f'ing MORON... :rolleyes

It's funny that T-Mac said that and I'm curious to see if he gets fined, but who cares...

[monosylab1k]

Is this a record for most times a Mavs homer got owned in a single thread? :lol

someone got owned? where?

[jacobdrj]

Actualy, Mavs Fans can blame the refs... in the Finals. But before, yeah, Mavs got the benifit of the calls.

[TheSouthwest]

And your hopes were fulfilled, as Timmy "I've Never Commited A Foul & Never Missed A Shot In My Life Without Getting Fouled, And My Bug Eyes And Upturned Palms Prove It" Duncan did indeed shoot more free throws than the European pussy.


I've read alot of stuff you've written and agree that the Mavs-Spurs was equally shitty officated for both teams but The Finals was pretty lopsided.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Any Mavs fan that blames the refs is a f'ing MORON... :rolleyes

It's funny that T-Mac said that and I'm curious to see if he gets fined, but who cares...

ok, get over it. i've only seen one mav fan complain and his favorite team is the Hawks. the only Mav fans that are complaining are the ones that dont exist. Mavs had a 2-0 lead but the Heat kept fighting, and Mavs relaxed. its their fault.

later

[Slinkyman]

ok, get over it. i've only seen one mav fan complain and his favorite team is the Hawks. the only Mav fans that are complaining are the ones that dont exist. Mavs had a 2-0 lead but the Heat kept fighting, and Mavs choked. its their fault.

later

Fixed

[TDMVPDPOY]

that shit was rigged "spurs " '06 and '07 champs"

it was rigged when lakers 3peat, the year pistons won,

we should have at least fkn 7-8 championships by now!!

[East Coast Babe]

I would hope that Tim shoots more FT's than Dirk. Tim is a post up forward who attacks the basket, while Dirk is a jumpshooting forward who got a call seemingly every time he decided to attack.

As a whole the Mavs are a very jumpshot prone team while the Spurs and Heat are attacking teams which is why they get the calls.


If you are calling jumpshots out of the paint shots, actually Mavs are not a jumpshoot prone team anymore. I did some research for someone else and results were interesting! We are more jumpshoot prone than you(65.4% of the time). And, now get this... San Antonio is more jumpshoot prone than Dallas at 60.3% of the time. Dallas comes in with the least amount of jumpshots of the three teams at 58.5% of the time. Seattle is the most jumpshoot prone at about 70%! :spin


source:http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/stats/06/5/pts

[Mavs_man_41]

I've read alot of stuff you've written and agree that the Mavs-Spurs was equally shitty officated for both teams but The Finals was pretty lopsided.

Even a spurs fan realizes the officiating was lopsided. All you spurs fans have to say is, mavs suck, we have 3 rings. Do you morons not realize that it could easily be mavs 2 rings, spurs 2 rings? In 2003 i strongly believe the mavericks would have won that series and gone on to win it all had dirk not gone down to an ankle injury. And like this guy says the finals were pretty lopsided. Ya i know the mavericks could have done alot of things differently but all mistakes accounted for, they still would have won if it wasnt for shitty officiating in games 3,5, and 6.

[mavsfan1000]

Even a spurs fan realizes the officiating was lopsided. All you spurs fans have to say is, mavs suck, we have 3 rings. Do you morons not realize that it could easily be mavs 2 rings, spurs 2 rings? In 2003 i strongly believe the mavericks would have won that series and gone on to win it all had dirk not gone down to an ankle injury. And like this guy says the finals were pretty lopsided. Ya i know the mavericks could have done alot of things differently but all mistakes accounted for, they still would have won if it wasnt for shitty officiating in games 3,5, and 6.

Well I'm calling you out now. No way the mavs beat the spurs in 2003 even with Dirk. Malik Rose was a key player for the spurs that year against Dirk. Also Raef got embarrassed by Duncan or whoever guarded him.

[Mavs_man_41]

If you remember we were up 1-0 and when dirk got hurt things went all downhill from there. I think we had a great chance to win, mavs had a ton of confidence after beating sacramento who we always seemed to have trouble with.

[mavsfan1000]

Mavs were down 2-1 and down by like 5 points when Dirk went down. They were about to lose both games at home anyway. They would have to have a great comeback in game 4 and still the spurs had home court.

[Mavs_man_41]

Ya and even with dirk going down we still only lost that game by 7. We went on to win the next game even without dirk. Im pretty sure if we could win without him then we definately could have won with him.

[ShoogarBear]

While you're at it, why don't you talk about what if Roy Tarpley had never done coke?

[sabar]

If the mavs won this year's finals, that would have been so embarassing. No team that chokes on such epic proportions should EVER hold a title. No team that has star players with awesome stretches of 20% FG shooting in key moments should have a ring.

They choked. They choked big time and deserved to lose. If the Dallas Chokers won the 2006 championship, that would have been the biggest fluke ever. An asterick year.

[monosylab1k]

ok, get over it. i've only seen one mav fan complain and his favorite team is the Hawks. the only Mav fans that are complaining are the ones that dont exist. Mavs had a 2-0 lead but the Heat kept fighting, and Mavs relaxed. its their fault.

later

didn't complain once, sir. i just noted that spurs fans want to complain about mavs fans complaining, while noting how many calls the Mavs supposedly got over the Spurs in that series, and one person in particular noted a fictional "FTA disparity" and so i showed that it was not true, and that if there were any series in which the refs screwed one team over, it was the Finals with the Mavs. either way, the refs aren't to blame for anything.

[monosylab1k]

If the mavs won this year's finals, that would have been so embarassing. No team that chokes on such epic proportions should EVER hold a title. No team that has star players with awesome stretches of 20% FG shooting in key moments should have a ring.

They choked. They choked big time and deserved to lose. If the Dallas Chokers won the 2006 championship, that would have been the biggest fluke ever. An asterick year.

ah, an asterisk year...kinda like what 1999 should have been?

[monosylab1k]

Well I'm calling you out now. No way the mavs beat the spurs in 2003 even with Dirk. Malik Rose was a key player for the spurs that year against Dirk. Also Raef got embarrassed by Duncan or whoever guarded him.

Not to mention the Shawn Bradley effect. No team with Shawn Bradley could have ever won a title. Put him on the Jordan-era Bulls and they never win one. Heck, put him on IR and don't allow him in the building...if he's officially on a team's roster, that team will not win. The single greatest offseason move in Mavericks history was forcing Shawn Bradley into retirement.

[FromWayDowntown]

ah, an asterisk year...kinda like what 1999 should have been?

Ah! Now THERE'S a fresh take.

[MI21]

While you're at it, why don't you talk about what if Roy Tarpley had never done coke?


Who? [/mavfan]

[LB7]

If you are calling jumpshots out of the paint shots, actually Mavs are not a jumpshoot prone team anymore. I did some research for someone else and results were interesting! We are more jumpshoot prone than you(65.4% of the time). And, now get this... San Antonio is more jumpshoot prone than Dallas at 60.3% of the time. Dallas comes in with the least amount of jumpshots of the three teams at 58.5% of the time. Seattle is the most jumpshoot prone at about 70%! :spin


source:http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/stats/06/5/pts
Many Spurs fans need to read that. I was even surprised.

[monosylab1k]

Ah! Now THERE'S a fresh take.

well if someone was gonna mention asterisks, how can you not mention that half-championship?

[mabber]

If you are calling jumpshots out of the paint shots, actually Mavs are not a jumpshoot prone team anymore. I did some research for someone else and results were interesting! We are more jumpshoot prone than you(65.4% of the time). And, now get this... San Antonio is more jumpshoot prone than Dallas at 60.3% of the time. Dallas comes in with the least amount of jumpshots of the three teams at 58.5% of the time. Seattle is the most jumpshoot prone at about 70%! :spin
source:http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/stats/06/5/pts

Yeah, most Mav fans know this is the case now...but it takes awhile for the rest of the fans (that don't follow a team) to realize it. There's always a lag in perception of at least a year when a team changes up it's style a little bit. The coaches and players of other teams realize it though. I've never bothered wasting my time arguing this over here on the Spurs board just cuz I know most would refuse to believe it and it would turn into a dog-pile :lol

[East Coast Babe]

Well, as far as I am concerned, they can do what they want with the information. The source is printed they can see for themselves. If you watch the Mavs for very long (like in the Finals, especially) you can see that they are not primarily a jumpshoot team anymore. Lots of stuff going on in the middle in the paint that I don't remember before. Maybe I am wrong about that and you have always been doing that, but I remember the days when all I heard about was Nowitzki and his three-pointers. After the season, a friend and I really began to wonder about whether the Mavs were really a primarily jumpshooting team, like everyone said. A little research showed not so much as you might think! I was surprised too that we did the most jumpshooting among the three teams. You just don't know until you really look! :smokin

[freedom&justice]

the last few minutes of that mavs-heat game 3 was just bad officiating. Refs swallow the whistle on an obvious foul when Jason Terry was knocked down on a shot attempt but anyone who breathed on Wade was called for a foul. I stopped watching that dumb excuse for a finals series right then.
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but bad calls seem to have a habit of occuring whenever Wade and the heat are involved. Like games 2, 3 and 4 of the EC finals for example. I mean how the hell does your whole starting unit be in foul trouble at the same time?????

[mabber]

Well, as far as I am concerned, they can do what they want with the information. The source is printed they can see for themselves. If you watch the Mavs for very long (like in the Finals, especially) you can see that they are not primarily a jumpshoot team anymore. Lots of stuff going on in the middle in the paint that I don't remember before. Maybe I am wrong about that and you have always been doing that, but I remember the days when all I heard about was Nowitzki and his three-pointers. After the season, a friend and I really began to wonder about whether the Mavs were really a primarily jumpshooting team, like everyone said. A little research showed not so much as you might think! I was surprised too that we did the most jumpshooting among the three teams. You just don't know until you really look! :smokin

It's all Avery Johnson. He doesn't want them settling for jumpers like they always did in the past. In fact, during the regular season last year he would yank players when they settled for jumpers instead of being more aggressive and taking the ball to hoop (he yanked Dirk a few times for this). They still have a little ways to go but this coming season will only be their 2nd season under Avery so his system will continue to take hold.

[George Gervin's Afro]

the mavs have become a one on one basketball team. they ranked last or near the last in the NBA in assists. the spurs played to the mavs advantage and still almost beat dallas at their own game. miama proved that if you take away the drving lanes the mavs looked lost and confused..they reverted to loveable mavs of the past..a soft jump shooting team..

[mabber]

the mavs have become a one on one basketball team. they ranked last or near the last in the NBA in assists. the spurs played to the mavs advantage and still almost beat dallas at their own game. miama proved that if you take away the drving lanes the mavs looked lost and confused..they reverted to loveable mavs of the past..a soft jump shooting team..

[George Gervin's Afro]

i'm glad you accept your team is soft and choked..

[mabber]

i'm glad you accept your team is soft and choked..

I don't, but it's pointless to argue Spur's fans about it. I'm weak and will try to from time to time though :lol

I like this board cuz there's so much activity, but it's difficult to discuss hoops w/o the "hate for the Mavs and all things Dallas" overcoming any rational, intelligent talk about them. I understand though...it's not a Mav board, it's a Spurs board.

[Beer is Good]

I'm weak
I agree.

[Barry Bonds]

if your a Mavs fan, face it. u cant say anything good about your team, unless you mention Duncan is the best player in the league in the same sentence. just go to Mavtalk or join the trolls :lol

[waterbottle2000]

stephon marbury said the whole league was rigged
but does anyone even care?


the mavs lost, rigged or not
who cares.

[mavsfan1000]

Duncan is the best player in the league but the mavs are for real. The depth of their team is unbelievable.

[Haiku]

Kobe is better
even you Spurs fans must agree
its not even close

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe is better
even you Spurs fans must agree
its not even close
Kobe is overrated. I actually don't want him on that USA team in that I think he would hurt the chemistry. They would do better with Joe Johnson playing than Kobe Bryant. Ball hogs only hurt the USA team.

[Haiku]

Kobe has improved some
as far as passing may go.
he is a good deal

[Mavs_man_41]

Kobe is overrated. I actually don't want him on that USA team in that I think he would hurt the chemistry. They would do better with Joe Johnson playing than Kobe Bryant. Ball hogs only hurt the USA team.

I like Joe Johnson, hes underrated. If he wasn't on Atlanta he would become a Superstar instead of just a star.

[mavsfan1000]

Joe Johnson is a great role player. He is a Scottie Pippen type of player. A perfect compliment to a superstar. That's why I think he fits so well complimenting Wade and Lebron.

[Mavs_man_41]

Kobe has improved some
as far as passing may go.
he is a good deal

As much as i dislike kobe, i can't not see the truth. Kobe is the best player in the world. Spurs fans like to say that their own Tim Duncan is the world's best player, but its just not true. Tim Duncan is probably the second best player in the league in terms of offense and defense. The guy can play both sides of the ball and spurs fans should be proud to have him on their team as he is a class act on and off the court. There's nothing wrong with being the 2nd best in the entire world out of all the millions of people that play basketball in almost every country.

[Eric Dampier]

Joe Johnson is a great role player. He is a Scottie Pippen type of player. A perfect compliment to a superstar. That's why I think he fits so well complimenting Wade and Lebron.

your right but your also wrong. you are a Mavs fan on a Spurs board so you will always be wrong. Comparing Joe Johnson to Scottie Pippen when the Dallas Mavericks are your favorite team, is "idiot Mavsfan Bullshit" or "youve never won a championship, your team is a bunch of whiners so your wrong Mavbitch" or "go to hell :madrun "

[Mavs_man_41]

^ LMAO to some people that is so true. Some spurs fans arent stuck up and respect other peoples opinion no matter who they go for.

[East Coast Babe]

the mavs have become a one on one basketball team. they ranked last or near the last in the NBA in assists. the spurs played to the mavs advantage and still almost beat dallas at their own game. miama proved that if you take away the drving lanes the mavs looked lost and confused..they reverted to loveable mavs of the past..a soft jump shooting team..

Okay, looked it up. You are right about Mavs ranking last or near last on assists. But, you forgot that between Spurs and Mavs: Mavs score more points per game than Spurs, they have more steals per game, they have more blocks per game, they have fewer turnovers, more offensive rebounds, and free throws made and attempted, the percentage is higher. They are not your Grandma's Mavs anymore! While we are on it, there were a lot of the same areas we had you beat too. Sometimes not as good as Dallas, sometimes better. :spin

[mavsfan1000]

your right but your also wrong. you are a Mavs fan on a Spurs board so you will always be wrong. Comparing Joe Johnson to Scottie Pippen when the Dallas Mavericks are your favorite team, is "idiot Mavsfan Bullshit" or "youve never won a championship, your team is a bunch of whiners so your wrong Mavbitch" or "go to hell :madrun "
I'll put that in my sig. :lol

[Rip-Hamilton32]

As much as i dislike kobe, i can't not see the truth. Kobe is the best player in the world. Spurs fans like to say that their own Tim Duncan is the world's best player, but its just not true. Tim Duncan is probably the second best player in the league in terms of offense and defense. The guy can play both sides of the ball and spurs fans should be proud to have him on their team as he is a class act on and off the court. There's nothing wrong with being the 2nd best in the entire world out of all the millions of people that play basketball in almost every country.

2nd best of active players maybe second best all time? if so then just keep kissing spur ass
:elephant

[Mavs_man_41]

2nd best of active players maybe second best all time? if so then just keep kissing spur ass
:elephant

STFU no one is kissing spur ass, he is obviously one of the top players in the world. That's not kissing ass thats stating the facts.

[Ozzman]

STFU no one is kissing spur ass, he is obviously one of the top players in the world. That's not kissing ass thats stating the facts.


This entire thing of 'the finals were fixed' is kinda gay. it's a known fact that every time a team loses, it's the refs' fault. Not the team's. The Mavs got calls against them, but so did the spurs. the whole NBA is like that, and it starts with david Stern. Bad calls happen. The refs are only human, but then again, 50-32 free throws is slightly rediculous. Th finals were not fixed. Neither was the Sna Antonio series. both teams had thier chance to win, and they failed. Miami is a bit pompous and I am hoping a Texas Team (preferrably the Spurs) will knock them off thier one-legged high and mighty dunce stool and shut those bastards up. Shaq's fat ass doesn't need another title.

[Beer is Good]

your right but your also wrong. you are a Mavs fan on a Spurs board so you will always be wrong. Comparing Joe Johnson to Scottie Pippen when the Dallas Mavericks are your favorite team, is "idiot Mavsfan Bullshit" or "youve never won a championship, your team is a bunch of whiners so your wrong Mavbitch" or "go to hell :madrun "
HAHA, that was two mavs fans arguing over joe johnson.

[mabber]

This entire thing of 'the finals were fixed' is kinda gay. it's a known fact that every time a team loses, it's the refs' fault. Not the team's. The Mavs got calls against them, but so did the spurs. the whole NBA is like that, and it starts with david Stern. Bad calls happen. The refs are only human, but then again, 50-32 free throws is slightly rediculous. Th finals were not fixed. Neither was the Sna Antonio series. both teams had thier chance to win, and they failed. Miami is a bit pompous and I am hoping a Texas Team (preferrably the Spurs) will knock them off thier one-legged high and mighty dunce stool and shut those bastards up. Shaq's fat ass doesn't need another title.

Have you seen him recently? He's already put on 25-30 lbs since the end of June :lol Gaining a lot of weight in the offseason and trying to play his way back into shape during the regular season is gonna eventually catch up to him. This might be the year.

[Eric Dampier]

HAHA, that was two mavs fans arguing over joe johnson.

ahem, im not a fan..........

[Ozzman]

Have you seen him recently? He's already put on 25-30 lbs since the end of June :lol Gaining a lot of weight in the offseason and trying to play his way back into shape during the regular season is gonna eventually catch up to him. This might be the year.


Ya I kno! He's like a walrus, only fatter!

[mabber]

Ya I kno! He's like a walrus, only fatter!

Now that he's got a ring w/o Kobe, he might have a hard time caring anymore. I think he's got 3 more years on his contract though. Heat fans might be in for a long 3 years cuz Wade can't win title w/o Shaq drawing a lot of attention on D.

[shaggy17]

Duncan is the best player in the league but the mavs are for real. The depth of their team is unbelievable.

Yes Johnson who had 1 breakout series :rolleyes (not the first time a player has done that then go back to being below average),Buckner,George/Ager,Croshere,Dampier,Mbenga is just so damn fucking great. I would take Banks,Barbosa,James Jones,Kurt Thomas over that. Mavs bench is good but you and every other Mavs fan act like this bench is so damn amazing and overrate dramatically it's funny :lol

[JealousOnesNV]

Now that he's got a ring w/o Kobe, he might have a hard time caring anymore. I think he's got 3 more years on his contract though. Heat fans might be in for a long 3 years cuz Wade can't win title w/o Shaq drawing a lot of attention on D.
Put Shaq down on the block and he will draw attention. Its no different than what it was in LA. Shaq can score all day long, just shut down Kobe(ok limit Kobe). You have to shutdown Wade, Shaq gets the rock he's gonna score

[Mavs_man_41]

Yes Johnson who had 1 breakout series :rolleyes (not the first time a player has done that then go back to being below average),Buckner,George/Ager,Croshere,Dampier,Mbenga is just so damn fucking great. I would take Banks,Barbosa,James Jones,Kurt Thomas over that. Mavs bench is good but you and every other Mavs fan act like this bench is so damn amazing and overrate dramatically it's funny :lol

You act like you just listed the entire mavs bench. Those are just a few of the players the mavs added or resigned this offseason. You even forgot to mention Anthony Johnson. Not to mention one of the runners up for the 6th man award, jerry stackhouse. In my opinion, the mavs have the deepest bench in the league.

[shaggy17]

You act like you just listed the entire mavs bench. Those are just a few of the players the mavs added or resigned this offseason. You even forgot to mention Anthony Johnson. Not to mention one of the runners up for the 6th man award, jerry stackhouse. In my opinion, the mavs have the deepest bench in the league.
I did mention johnson reread what I said. Also outside of stack that bench is nothing special. Id take the suns bench over yours. Kurt thomas>any big the mavs have off the bench. Banks>most of the Mavs guards except Stack.

[mavsfan1000]

I did mention johnson reread what I said. Also outside of stack that bench is nothing special. Id take the suns bench over yours. Kurt thomas>any big the mavs have off the bench. Banks>most of the Mavs guards except Stack.
Harris>Banks, Stackhouse<Barbosa, George=Jones, Dampier>Kurt Thomas, and Anthony Johnson, Croshere, and Ager> Suns scrubs after that.

[shaggy17]

Harris>Banks, Stackhouse<Barbosa, George=Jones, Dampier>Kurt Thomas, and Anthony Johnson, Croshere, and Ager> Suns scrubs after that.

Kurt thomas gives your more O and more toughness inside for a cheaper price. Harris is starting so he doesnt count for the bench but if we are using starters Nash/Bell/Diaw/Marion/Amare>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Softie Harris, JET,Josh Howard, Softie Dirk, and Diop. James Jones can do a little more then Devon George. as for the AJ,Croshere Ager one I can agree with. Like I said this is a nice bench but its not that great. If we are gonna add in starters like I said earlier into the mix then we are talking entire ball clubs as a whole and if this is the case then Suns>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mavs :fro

[mavsfan1000]

Unfortunately for the suns their defense isn't good enough for their individual offensive talent. Obviously these teams are very evenly matched up but I think the mavs are a better all around team while the suns are all offense and no rebounding and defense.

[Mavs_man_41]

hey Shaggy, suns>mavs? I get criticized for saying the mavs have a deeper bench than the spurs but you are allowed to say bullshit such as suns>mavs? Aren't you a spurs fan anyways? Why is it any of your concern?

[shaggy17]

Unfortunately for the suns their defense isn't good enough for their individual offensive talent. Obviously these teams are very evenly matched up but I think the mavs are a better all around team while the suns are all offense and no rebounding and defense.

It took you 6 games to beat a Suns team with No Amare, No Kurt Thomas and a 1 legged Raja Bell. They came within a quarter of pushing you to a game 7 and you have yet to prove you can beat a healthy suns team. The Suns team who beat you 2 years ago is even better now and with Amare back along with all the other pieces, Suns>>>>>>>>>Mavs. They have added toughness and heart this past year and it showed. Add in the never give up mindset of the Suns with Amare and the Mavs are in deep shit. Amare and Kurt Thomas will help with the boards along with their defense. Also cant forget about what Raja Bell and Boris Diaw bring to the table on both sides of the ball along with Marcus Banks. The suns IMO are a much bigger threat then the Mavs as far as winning the west goes. Also the Mavs lack a superstar so if you wanna talk about weaknesses we can talk about that. Land a superstar (As I have said so many times Dirk is an all-star who cant handle physical play and needs the refs to bail him out in the clutch), a post up player, guys who arent big softies like Harris and Dirk when a team like Miami gets physical with them and knocks them on their asses hard, can beat the Spurs without bullshit help from the refs, tell your owner who admitted that the refs played a vital role in them actually making the finals to STFU, and somebody who actually knows how to take out an exercise bike and you might have yourselves a championship team :fro .

[shaggy17]

hey Shaggy, suns>mavs? I get criticized for saying the mavs have a deeper bench than the spurs but you are allowed to say bullshit such as suns>mavs? Aren't you a spurs fan anyways? Why is it any of your concern?

Also saying the Suns with amare are better then the Mavs isnt bullshit. Look what happened 2 years ago and look how much the Suns pushed you without their 2 bigs Kurt Thomas and Amare along with a hobbled Raja Bell. I am a spurs fan but I am telling you that not only will you not be better then the Spurs but you wont be better then the Suns(If healthy) either. If we dont go small ball and if bullshit doesnt happen we will beat you in a 7 game series.

[Mavs_man_41]

The Suns team who beat you 2 years ago is even better now and with Amare back along with all the other pieces

No, they have lost key players such as Joe Johnson and Q richardson, while the have picked up others.

Suns>>>>>>>>>Mavs.

You make this assumption before the season even begins? This further proves that you are a moron and a troll.

The suns IMO are a much bigger threat then the Mavs as far as winning the west goes.

There you go making predictions, Nostrodamus. How do you know this before the season even begins?

Also the Mavs lack a superstar so if you wanna talk about weaknesses we can talk about that. Land a superstar

Are you fucking kidding me? Anyone who claims Dirk is not a superstar should be banned for being such a fucking moron. LMAO thats funny shit there

[shaggy17]

The truth hurts. Superstars pick up their play to the highest level in the finals and dont rely on the refs to bail them out in the clutch. Superstars can handle physical play and are never afraid to take the big shots especially if a championship is on the line. And the Suns got nice pickups in dealing Q and Joe Johnson in Kurt thomas and Boris Diaw along with the Hawks future pick. A healthy Suns team will beat the Mavs in the playoffs but sadly we have to wait until May before that happens. Also how am I a troll? I am a spurs fan on a spurs board :angel .

[Mavs_man_41]

Also saying the Suns with amare are better then the Mavs isnt bullshit. Look what happened 2 years ago and look how much the Suns pushed you without their 2 bigs Kurt Thomas and Amare along with a hobbled Raja Bell. I am a spurs fan but I am telling you that not only will you not be better then the Spurs but you wont be better then the Suns(If healthy) either. If we dont go small ball and if bullshit doesnt happen we will beat you in a 7 game series.

First of all, 2 years ago is 2 years ago. That has no effects whatsoever on what happens this season. And if you want to talk about that series, it was a close series and could have easily gone to 7 games if not for a few mistakes on the mavs part. Do you think the suns will be that good again? Nash will be another year older. Sooner or later he won't be able to run and push the ball the same way that makes the suns so hard to beat. No one is guaranteing amare stoudamire to be the same after microfracture surgury, just ask penny hardaway. There is a reason why team usa sent amare back home. He is not back to 100% yet. No one knows if he will ever be 100% again. Plus, the suns lost players like Joe Johnson. You can't base this season on what happended 2 years ago, thats rediculous.

[shaggy17]

First of all, 2 years ago is 2 years ago. That has no effects whatsoever on what happens this season. And if you want to talk about that series, it was a close series and could have easily gone to 7 games if not for a few mistakes on the mavs part. Do you think the suns will be that good again? Nash will be another year older. Sooner or later he won't be able to run and push the ball the same way that makes the suns so hard to beat. No one is guaranteing amare stoudamire to be the same after microfracture surgury, just ask penny hardaway. There is a reason why team usa sent amare back home. He is not back to 100% yet. No one knows if he will ever be 100% again. Plus, the suns lost players like Joe Johnson. You can't base this season on what happended 2 years ago, thats rediculous.

Hey did you know that the Suns manage to beat you without Joe Johnson? If you are wanting to act like his loss was so huge then look at that series when he was out after game 1 with that busted up face. Exactly 2 years ago the Suns werent as good or as deep as they are now. Nash has a solid backup in Banks, They have Bell/diaw/Kurt Thomas to help with the defense, and Amare is returning to the team this season. I never said it was not going to take some time for Amare to get back to game shape but he has several months to do so before the playoffs even begin so he has lots of time to gear up.

[Mavs_man_41]

Also how am I a troll? I am a spurs fan on a spurs board :angel .

Lmao you showed that you are a bandwagon spurs fan with your loyalty to the suns. You obviously dont know anything about basketball or the spurs when you say rediculous things such as "Dirk is not a superstar" and "The suns and spurs will beat the mavs next season." You even make predictions about how good the suns will be with a healthy amare, anyone who knows sports will tell you that this is not a guarantee. Ask penny hardaway what its like to return from microfracture surgury. Amare sure wasnt the same player in team usa training camp, that's why he was sent home so he could recover physically and mentally.

[Mavs_man_41]

The truth hurts.

Yea it sure does suns fan. Yes I said suns fan, you have shown your true colors all throughout this thread. It hurts for a suns fan to know that amare stoudamire may never become the player he could have been. He may be the next penny hardaway. His career could be ruined.

[shaggy17]

Lmao you showed that you are a bandwagon spurs fan with your loyalty to the suns. You obviously dont know anything about basketball or the spurs when you say rediculous things such as "Dirk is not a superstar" and "The suns and spurs will beat the mavs next season." You even make predictions about how good the suns will be with a healthy amare, anyone who knows sports will tell you that this is not a guarantee. Ask penny hardaway what its like to return from microfracture surgury. Amare sure wasnt the same player in team usa training camp, that's why he was sent home so he could recover physically and mentally.

:blah :blah :blah I am being labled a Suns fan because I think a healthy Suns team would beat the Mavs? You have been a Mavs fan since when 2000? Fuck fans like Mav fans are the last ones who should even label others as bandwagoners. I dont know anything about basketball??? You fucking think Dirk isnt mostly a jumpshooter in the NBA as of right now and you label Kobe a ball hogger yet the fucker helped the lakers to 3 championships so you are obviously contradicting yourself :lol .

[shaggy17]

Yea it sure does suns fan. Yes I said suns fan, you have shown your true colors all throughout this thread. It hurts for a suns fan to know that amare stoudamire may never become the player he could have been. He may be the next penny hardaway. His career could be ruined.


I bet you hope Amare turns out to be the next Penny.

[shaggy17]

Also instead of throwing the front runner card at me why dont you try responding to the other shit I said about why Dirk isnt a superstar?? Nevermind dont because you know that I am right and you indirectly admitted it. :)

[Mavs_man_41]

:blah :blah :blah I am being labled a Suns fan because I think a healthy Suns team would beat the Mavs? You have been a Mavs fan since when 2000? Fuck fans like Mav fans are the last ones who should even label others as bandwagoners. I dont know anything about basketball??? You fucking think Dirk isnt mostly a jumpshooter in the NBA as of right now and you label Kobe a ball hogger yet the fucker helped the lakers to 3 championships so you are obviously contradicting yourself :lol .

True spurs fans don't go around riding the nuts of other teams. And to answer your question, I have been a mavs fan ever since they were one of the shittiest teams in the NBA. And no, you dont know a damn thing about basketball. You make predictions before preseason games start, you know nothing about sports injuries, claiming amare stoudamire's return is gonna put the suns over the top. Look at penny hardaway he went from superstar to nothing overnight, with one surgury. And you also claim that Kobe is a team player, which is the funniest shit of all. If he is a team player, then why did he run shaq out of town so it could be the kobe show? Yes he helped the lakers to 3 championships but it was also his own selfishness that ruined that dynasty. You put any superstar next to shaq in his prime and they will win championships. LMAO you sound like a 12-14 year old kid who has just started to play and watch basketball. Just STFU and stick to Disney channel.

[Mavs_man_41]

Also instead of throwing the front runner card at me why dont you try responding to the other shit I said about why Dirk isnt a superstar?? Nevermind dont because you know that I am right and you indirectly admitted it. :)

Lmao ok then, if Dirk isnt a superstar then why is he always at the top of the MVP balloting? Name one MVP that wasn't a superstar......o wait, you can't. STFU if someone is a top candidate for MVP then they are certainly a superstar.

[shaggy17]

True spurs fans don't go around riding the nuts of other teams. And to answer your question, I have been a mavs fan ever since they were one of the shittiest teams in the NBA. And no, you dont know a damn thing about basketball. You make predictions before preseason games start, you know nothing about sports injuries, claiming amare stoudamire's return is gonna put the suns over the top. Look at penny hardaway he went from superstar to nothing overnight, with one surgury. And you also claim that Kobe is a team player, which is the funniest shit of all. If he is a team player, then why did he run shaq out of town so it could be the kobe show? Yes he helped the lakers to 3 championships but it was also his own selfishness that ruined that dynasty. You put any superstar next to shaq in his prime and they will win championships. LMAO you sound like a 12-14 year old kid who has just started to play and watch basketball. Just STFU and stick to Disney channel.


:blah :blah :lol yet you claim the Mavs have such an amazing bench before the season starts and thats making a prediction in its own way as well. It wasnt just Kobe who ruined that dynasty it was also Shaqs ego so in all fairness both were at fault because both had big egos that couldnt last any longer with each other. Shaq does have a huge ego and jealousy is something that Shaq has had in the past. He left Orlando and LA due to issues with Penny and Kobe and said that Drob blew him off for an autograph :lol . Kobe refused to kiss shaqs ass 24/7 which didnt make things better. Wade does kiss shaqs ass 24/7 (brings up to the press alot that Shaq makes his game alot easier) and Shaq also realizes that he isnt what he used to be so both go hand in hand which bolds very well for their chemistry with each other. I know injuries are part of the game and I mention IF healthy, if chemistry bolds well, then this is what I expect to happen. You know an opinion of what you think could happen if things go in that order? Nothing is a lock in basketball because you have to play the games but no as you said I dont know shit about the game. Oh wow the disney channel insult I am so hurt by that :rolleyes :rolleyes.

[shaggy17]

Lmao ok then, if Dirk isnt a superstar then why is he always at the top of the MVP balloting? Name one MVP that wasn't a superstar......o wait, you can't. STFU if someone is a top candidate for MVP then they are certainly a superstar.

So your using the MVP balloting as your only proof?? What about the other shit about not needing the refs to bail you out and wanting to take the big shots when a title is on the line?? :lol I guess throw that shit out the window. PJ Brown finished in the top 7 or 8 in MVP voting so I take it he is a superstar as well??? :rolleyes

[Mavs_man_41]

I also pick the Suns to not only win the west this year but to win the whole damn thing

What kind of spurs fan says that shit?

[Mavs_man_41]

So your using the MVP balloting as your only proof?? What about the other shit about not needing the refs to bail you out and wanting to take the big shots when a title is on the line?? :lol I guess throw that shit out the window. PJ Brown finished in the top 7 or 8 in MVP voting so I take it he is a superstar as well??? :rolleyes

Im not sure where you are getting him not wanting to take big shots. Since he has been the leader of the team, he has taken the majority of the big shots. Apparently all you watch is the spurs and the finals. You didnt see Dirk respond to Tim Thomas taunting and score 50 on him. And lmao you will have to show me proof before i believe pj brown was at the top of the mvp voting.

[shaggy17]

What kind of spurs fan says that shit?


:rolleyes A Spurs fan who happens to have a gut feeling that this is the year that the Suns take over the west. I believe the Spurs can still get the job done but I am actually thinking outside the box and going with who I like to win it all without being a complete homer. This is the first time since 2002 I havent picked the Spurs to win it all but I guess that still makes me a damn suns fan. :rolleyes

[Mavs_man_41]

:rolleyes A Spurs fan who happens to have a gut feeling that this is the year that the Suns take over the west. I believe the Spurs can still get the job done but I am actually thinking outside the box and going with who I like to win it all without being a complete homer. This is the first time since 2002 I havent picked the Spurs to win it all but I guess that still makes me a damn suns fan. :rolleyes

Not only that statement but all the other suns nut riding makes me wonder if you arent a closet suns fan.

[shaggy17]

Im not sure where you are getting him not wanting to take big shots. Since he has been the leader of the team, he has taken the majority of the big shots. Apparently all you watch is the spurs and the finals. You didnt see Dirk respond to Tim Thomas taunting and score 50 on him. And lmao you will have to show me proof before i believe pj brown was at the top of the mvp voting.


The Finals....where legends are born!! I take it Mcnabb is a clutch QB then because of that amazing year the eagles had all the way up until they lost the Superbowl. Or how Rich Gannon is an amazingly clutch qb up until he lost the SB as well. If you cant take your game up to an even higher level in the finals, then it shows what kind of player you really are. What about Dirk responding to the heat roughing him up and knocking his soft ass to the floor hard?? Or how did Dirk respond when he didnt even take the last shot of game 6 let alone didnt shoot the previous possession when he passed it to fucking Erick Dampier!! SUPERSTARS thrive off those moments in any series and situation.

[Mavs_man_41]

I seem to remember calling you a dumbass for several of the things you said, such as kobe being a team player. And you ignore this aqusation and start talking down about Dirk. I think you are just a 12 year old kid who knows nothing about basketball and therefore you dont even try to defend yourself.

[shaggy17]

I seem to remember calling you a dumbass for several of the things you said, such as kobe being a team player. And you ignore this aqusation and start talking down about Dirk. I think you are just a 12 year old kid who knows nothing about basketball and therefore you dont even try to defend yourself.

Ummmm I did talk about Kobe being a team player. Yes I remember your name calling as a source of a comeback. Nice to know that I can strike a nerve with those remarks :angel. I gave you examples on why I said kobe was a team player and explained to you why he wasnt the only one at fault for the Lakers breakup. Go back and reread my posts :rolleyes

[shaggy17]

Not only that statement but all the other suns nut riding makes me wonder if you arent a closet suns fan.

I guess youll have to keep up with my posts throughout the entire NBA season to figure that one out I guess :fro

[Mavs_man_41]

Ummmm I did talk about Kobe being a team player. Yes I remember your name calling as a source of a comeback. Nice to know that I can strike a nerve with those remarks :angel. I gave you examples on why I said kobe was a team player and explained to you why he wasnt the only one at fault for the Lakers breakup. Go back and reread my posts :rolleyes

Lmao you never explained why you thought kobe is a team player or why the breakup wasnt his fault. The only thing you said was, look how much better Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom played at the end of the season. I dont see how any of this is relevant to kobe, kobe was there throughout the season, its not like he came in and his teammates suddenly got better. Kobe is selfish, calling him a team player is laughable. Ask the opinions of others on the board. They will tell you that kobe isnt considered a team player.

[mavsfan1000]

Amare at 100% gives the suns a good chance for the championship. Unfortunately he isn't going to be 100% and Nash is getting older and I don't see Banks being any better than Barbosa as a backup. The offense really can't get any better than it has been the last 2 years and yet they haven't won a championship.

[shaggy17]

:blah :blah :lol yet you claim the Mavs have such an amazing bench before the season starts and thats making a prediction in its own way as well. It wasnt just Kobe who ruined that dynasty it was also Shaqs ego so in all fairness both were at fault because both had big egos that couldnt last any longer with each other. Shaq does have a huge ego and jealousy is something that Shaq has had in the past. He left Orlando and LA due to issues with Penny and Kobe and said that Drob blew him off for an autograph :lol . Kobe refused to kiss shaqs ass 24/7 which didnt make things better. Wade does kiss shaqs ass 24/7 (brings up to the press alot that Shaq makes his game alot easier) and Shaq also realizes that he isnt what he used to be so both go hand in hand which bolds very well for their chemistry with each other. I know injuries are part of the game and I mention IF healthy, if chemistry bolds well, then this is what I expect to happen. You know an opinion of what you think could happen if things go in that order? Nothing is a lock in basketball because you have to play the games but no as you said I dont know shit about the game. Oh wow the disney channel insult I am so hurt by that :rolleyes :rolleyes.


Scroll up for futher proof of what I talked about :rolleyes. You didnt reread like I told you to which explains why you didnt see what I posted earier.

[mabber]

Amare at 100% gives the suns a good chance for the championship. Unfortunately he isn't going to be 100% and Nash is getting older and I don't see Banks being any better than Barbosa as a backup. The offense really can't get any better than it has been the last 2 years and yet they haven't won a championship.

Yeah, I'm not worried about anyone in the west but the Spurs this season. Amare & coaches have already said they don't expect him to be able to do any of the aggressive, attack-type moves (he did pre-injury) this season that made him so special and tough to contain in the past. On top of that, the Mavs now have a more athletic center in Diop to guard him anyway. Damp was too slow 2 years ago. Also, I'll be really surprised if Nash makes it thru the season w/o injury. His back is bad and if he goes into the playoffs injured like last season they won't be a factor. But bottom line...they still don't play defense and that's what it will take to take out Dallas or San Antonio.

[Amare_32]

I like the fact that Mavs fans easily forget all the calls that went thier way in Round 2 when they cry about the Finals being rigged. The Spurs could not even breath on Dirk without a foul being called. They tend to forget that Jaon Terry went 7 of 25 in Game 6 against the Heat. Josh Howard as well was awful shooting 5 of 16 for the game. The only one that kept the game close towards the end was Marquis Daniels. As far as Amare being 100 percent I expect to get better as the season goes on. I think he will surprise alot of the naysayers out there.
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[mabber]

I like the fact that Mavs fans easily forget all the calls that went thier way in Round 2 when they cry about the Finals being rigged. The Spurs could not even breath on Dirk without a foul being called. They tend to forget that Jaon Terry went 7 of 25 in Game 6 against the Heat. Josh Howard as well was awful shooting 5 of 16 for the game. The only one that kept the game close towards the end was Marquis Daniels. As far as Amare being 100 percent I expect to get better as the season goes on. I think he will surprise alot of the naysayers out there.

I don't recall many controversial calls either way in the WCF's. My memory can be bad so please enlighten me.

I'm just going by what all the "experts" are saying about Amare. The consensus is that IF he gets back close to what he was it won't be this season. I loved watching that guy play prior to his injury, so I'm definitely pulling for him but it just doesn't sound too promising to me. I hope the experts are wrong.

Also, you have to remember that Mav fans have seen the Suns (Mavs of 2002-2004) before. The Mavs played a very similar game when Nelson was the coach and Nash, Dirk & Finley were together. As Mav fans we know that style just doesn't get it done when it comes to competing for a title. It will be fun to watch and you can win a playoff series or two but that's it. Mavs figured it out and moved on.

[Mavs_man_41]

I like the fact that Mavs fans easily forget all the calls that went thier way in Round 2 when they cry about the Finals being rigged. The Spurs could not even breath on Dirk without a foul being called. They tend to forget that Jaon Terry went 7 of 25 in Game 6 against the Heat. Josh Howard as well was awful shooting 5 of 16 for the game. The only one that kept the game close towards the end was Marquis Daniels. As far as Amare being 100 percent I expect to get better as the season goes on. I think he will surprise alot of the naysayers out there.

Obviously you don't know very much about your team......Amare has personally said that he doesn't expect to be 100% this season. And as far as breathing on Dirk, Duncan got the same treatment so it evened out. They are superstars, therefore, they get more calls.

[shaggy17]

Obviously you don't know very much about your team......Amare has personally said that he doesn't expect to be 100% this season. And as far as breathing on Dirk, Duncan got the same treatment so it evened out. They are superstars, therefore, they get more calls.

:rolleyes With the exception that Dirk got the calls in his favor late in the 4th so spare me with the bullshit. Dirk steps on Duncans foot does a 360 flop and its a foul on Duncan and he fouls out. Then at the end of the 4th quarter in game 7 dirk hacks the shit out of Duncan but no call! Also you are right on Duncan being a superstar but Dirk is an all-star. All-stars fade when a title is on the line and all stars rely on the refs in the clutch to bail them out. Superstars take the big shots at any moment and dont rely on the refs to bail them out. They also can handle physical play. :fro

[Mavs_man_41]

:rolleyes With the exception that Dirk got the calls in his favor late in the 4th so spare me with the bullshit. Dirk steps on Duncans foot does a 360 flop and its a foul on Duncan and he fouls out. Then at the end of the 4th quarter in game 7 dirk hacks the shit out of Duncan but no call! Also you are right on Duncan being a superstar but Dirk is an all-star. All-stars fade when a title is on the line and all stars rely on the refs in the clutch to bail them out. Superstars take the big shots at any moment and dont rely on the refs to bail them out. They also can handle physical play. :fro

STFU, you always spew the same bullshit. Dirks not a superstar dirks not a superstar. Since you dont want to listen to me....lets take a poll:

WHO HERE THINKS DIRK NOWITZKI IS A SUPERSTAR?

shaggy we will see whether or not you are a dumbass.

[shaggy17]

STFU, you always spew the same bullshit. Dirks not a superstar dirks not a superstar. Since you dont want to listen to me....lets take a poll:

WHO HERE THINKS DIRK NOWITZKI IS A SUPERSTAR?

shaggy we will see whether or not you are a dumbass.



:blah :lmao :lmao God your comedy man this shit is so much fun. Your best defense weapon is name calling! :elephant :elephant! If you wanna start polls who here thinks Duncan will finish in the top 10 of all time when it is all said and done?? I guess that will prove if your a dumbass or not since were going to use polls on opinions! :blah :blah :blah I give my reasons for why Dirk isnt a superstar and I have disagreed with your views and came up with my reasons on why I dont agree with them! You just label the finals as "another series" but in reality it is the series that proves if you can take your game to a level higher then you have played all season!!The series where legends/superstars are born!! But go ahead and resort to name calling if that makes you feel like your winning the argument. I enjoy the fact that I am getting on your nerves and pissing you off :lol

[Mavs_man_41]

:blah :lmao :lmao God your comedy man this shit is so much fun. Your best defense weapon is name calling! :elephant :elephant! If you wanna start polls who here thinks Duncan will finish in the top 10 of all time when it is all said and done?? I guess that will prove if your a dumbass or not since were going to use polls on opinions! :blah :blah :blah I give my reasons for why Dirk isnt a superstar and I have disagreed with your views and came up with my reasons on why I dont agree with them! You just label the finals as "another series" but in reality it is the series that proves if you can take your game to a level higher then you have played all season!!The series where legends/superstars are born!! But go ahead and resort to name calling if that makes you feel like your winning the argument. I enjoy the fact that I am getting on your nerves and pissing you off :lol

You act like Duncan is a lock for top 10 of all time. That is just peoples opinion there is no actual top 10 ranking, either u make the hall of fame or you don't. Thinking duncan isnt top 10 is nowhere near as crazy as saying Dirk isn't a superstar. I dont even know why im defending dirk, hes one of my least favorite mavs and im still pissed at him. I guess I just can't stand your rediculous comments.

[shaggy17]

You act like Duncan is a lock for top 10 of all time. That is just peoples opinion there is no actual top 10 ranking, either u make the hall of fame or you don't. Thinking duncan isnt top 10 is nowhere near as crazy as saying Dirk isn't a superstar. I dont even know why im defending dirk, hes one of my least favorite mavs and im still pissed at him. I guess I just can't stand your rediculous comments.

You mean redirkalous :lol which was some pretty stupid shit. (Nowitzness is almost as bad). At least I can give you your dues for being critical of your own player.

[mabber]

You mean redirkalous :lol which was some pretty stupid shit. (Nowitzness is almost as bad). At least I can give you your dues for being critical of your own player.

Do you really like Barry? Why would you use such a spare as your avatar? Why not use Duncan or someone that can play if you must have a pic?

[Mavs_man_41]

^Probably Barry's shaggy hair and need of shaving goes with his name, shaggy17. I guess hes just another long haired hippy.

[z0sa]

They will tell you that kobe isnt considered a team player.

Kobe's play during the first round was exemplary team basketball - he would pass to the open man time and time again. It wasnt Kobe's fault they lost up 3-1 .. it was his teammates'. Also let us not forget that in 2005 Kobe averaged 6 assists per game. Coaching was he main reason they didn't make the playoffs that season.

[shaggy17]

:td :td Now Mav fans have to diss my avatar and username as a form of retaliation.

[shaggy17]

Kobe's play during the first round was exemplary team basketball - he would pass to the open man time and time again. It wasnt Kobe's fault they lost up 3-1 .. it was his teammates'. Also let us not forget that in 2005 Kobe averaged 6 assists per game. Coaching was he main reason they didn't make the playoffs that season.

You were just :owned Mavsfan!! :lol But if namecalling and disses non basketball related make you feel better then do what works for you :spin

[Mavs_man_41]

You were just :owned Mavsfan!! :lol But if namecalling and disses non basketball related make you feel better then do what works for you :spin

one person agrees with u, am i supposed to care? Kobe is not a team player. His 6 assists come from always having the ball in his hand.

[jacobdrj]

It happens to be that Marburry and Francis have always had excelent assist numbers. That is because they dominate the ball, and like padding their stats. But come crunch time, they are the most selfish people on the court period. Their assist numbers are PHONEY!

[Mavs_man_41]

It happens to be that Marburry and Francis have always had excelent assist numbers. That is because they dominate the ball, and like padding their stats. But come crunch time, they are the most selfish people on the court period. Their assist numbers are PHONEY!

Agreed 100%, assist can be decieving when the ball is in your hand every possesion. Your bound to make a couple good passes a game.

[Lee Corso]

True spurs fans don't go around riding the nuts of other teams. And to answer your question, I have been a mavs fan ever since they were one of the shittiest teams in the NBA. And no, you dont know a damn thing about basketball. You make predictions before preseason games start, you know nothing about sports injuries, claiming amare stoudamire's return is gonna put the suns over the top. Look at penny hardaway he went from superstar to nothing overnight, with one surgury. And you also claim that Kobe is a team player, which is the funniest shit of all. Dirk rarely if ever flops! If he is a team player, then why did he run shaq out of town so it could be the kobe show? Yes he helped the lakers to 3 championships but it was also his own selfishness that ruined that dynasty. You put any superstar next to shaq in his prime and they will win championships. LMAO you sound like a 12-14 year old kid who has just started to play and watch basketball. Just STFU and stick to Disney channel.

:wow

[Mavs_man_41]

^Sorry but i didn't write that, Dirk does flop sometimes. He's just not pro at it like manu.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

. But come crunch time, they are the most selfish people on the court period.

nah crawford is the guy they goto in crunch time..and hes pretty damn good at shooting big shots

[monosylab1k]

It happens to be that Marburry and Francis have always had excelent assist numbers. That is because they dominate the ball, and like padding their stats. But come crunch time, they are the most selfish people on the court period. Their assist numbers are PHONEY!

truer words have never been spoken.

[Amare_32]

Look if the NBA were trult rigged dont you think for example that in 04-05 instead of a Spurs/Pistons Finals Stern would have prefered a Heat/Suns Finals series? I mean I remember hearing Wilborn saying that marketers were salivating at the thought of that matchup.
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[jacobdrj]

Look if the NBA were trult rigged dont you think for example that in 04-05 instead of a Spurs/Pistons Finals Stern would have prefered a Heat/Suns Finals series? I mean I remember hearing Wilborn saying that marketers were salivating at the thought of that matchup.
Keep something in mind: The Spurs/Pistons are good buisness. They are just in the wrong cities. They are low budget. Thats good for the owners. Good for dividends. Bang for the buck. High ticket sales, low overhead. Models of how NBA franchises should be. They were given shots. TV raitings suffered. Rules were changed.

However, what do you think we GOT this year? No Spurs, no Pistons, not even the Pacers. We got the good version of the Pheonix Suns (the trinity of the 3 offensive teams of the 21st century, DAL, PHX, and SAC) and the most palateable team in the East.

I am not saying the finals were rigged. I am saying that the Mavs were given a LOT of slack in the WCPOs, but lost that edge in the Finals (which I did not watch, personally, too many classes, too many workouts). Heat were the best team in the East. Ironically, they were better last year, they just had less competition this year. Wade got calls, all stars do. Doesn't really bother me. I have almost nothing against the Heat. Just don't like Shaq, but it was nice of him to get a ring kobe-less. I like Kobe less.

[Louie Vega]

Why the fuck do u follow me around to every thread and say shit about my posts. Get off my ass and quit stalking me weirdo.

Why don't you get the fuck off of this board and take your ass to a mavs board!