IT's LEGAL but is it right.

[BIG IRISH]

If your not familiar with Joe Arpaio He is the Maricopa County Arizona Sheriff
and keeps getting elected again and again

WHY??
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona ) who created the "tent city jail": Due to overcrowding

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked! up the cable TV again only letting in the Disney, and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. :lol :lol :lol

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:

About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic.

He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates:
"It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

Maybe if all County Jails were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

[whottt]

This guy kicks ass...

When he running for President? He's got my vote already.



He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

Now that's cruel and unusual punishment *snicker*

Newt is just about most obnoxious thing in the known universe...

[Mavs_man_41]

Hell yea its right. It's hardly the price to pay for a murderer or rapist. If you cant do the time, dont commit the crime.

[Nbadan]

Yeah, this is real stand-up guy! :rolleyes

The Scott Norberg case

One major controversy includes the 1996 death of inmate Scott Norberg while he was in custody. Norberg was arrested for chasing two young girls in Mesa, Arizona. Reportedly high on methamphetamines, Norberg was accused of attacking the jail detention officers who were trying to restrain him. In the subsequent struggle and restraint, he died. According to an investigation by Amnesty International, Norberg was already handcuffed and face down when officers dragged him from his cell and placed him in a restraint chair with a towel covering his face. His death, according to the Maricopa County medical examiner, was due to "positional asphyxia". County detention officers were acquitted of wrongdoing.

Norberg’s parents filed a lawsuit against Joe Arpaio and his office. The lawsuit was settled for $8.25 million (USD). Arpaio has consistently defended his officers' actions and the jail procedures and neither the Justice Department nor the FBI, which investigated the allegations, filed charges.
[edit]

The Brian Crenshaw case

Brian Crenshaw was a blind inmate allegedly beaten to death by guards working under Arpaio. Crenshaw suffered injuries that included a perforated intestine and a broken neck. When asked about the incident, Arpaio insisted, "The man fell off a bunk."
[edit]

The Fountain Hills prank calls case

During April, 2004, Arpaio became involved in more controversy when he accused the West Bridgewater, Massachusetts Police Department of being unprofessional over their handling of surveillance tapes from an AT&T store that showed a suspect making prank calls to several restaurants. The calls instructed restaurant managers to strip-search female customers — minors included. Several managers were arrested as a result. Arpaio believed that the suspect in the tapes from West Bridgewater might be connected to a similar case in Fountain Hills, Arizona. In response to Arpaio's comments, West Bridgewater Sheriff Raymund S. Rogers was quoted as saying "I think he's mad that our detectives just happen to be better than his detectives".

The West Bridgewater Police Department has refused to share the tapes showing the suspect prank-caller with Arizona law enforcement for the Fountain Hills investigation.
[edit]

James Saville

James Saville was arrested in 1999 for attempting to murder Joe Arpaio. A jury decided that officers from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department had entrapped Saville and found him not guilty [2].
[edit]

Torture

Arpaio has been accused of allowing the torture of inmates at his jails in a documentary from Channel 4 in Britain Channel 4.
[edit]

Illegal Aliens

Recently, Joe Arpaio has stated on FOX News as well as radio stations that he is deporting illegal aliens back to Mexico if they have committed felonies. He has deported over one hundred to date, and has gained largely public support for doing so. Arpaio uses for enforcement a controversial ruling by his county's attorney, which constructs undocumented workers as felon co-conspirators in human smuggling. Punishment could be up to two years in jail, and the county attorney's legal opinion is being challenged in court.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio)

[Spurminator]

Wait...



There's a FEDERAL ORDER for Cable TV in prisons??

[whottt]

Yeah, this is real stand-up guy! :rolleyes

The Scott Norberg case

One major controversy includes the 1996 death of inmate Scott Norberg while he was in custody. Norberg was arrested for chasing two young girls in Mesa, Arizona. Reportedly high on methamphetamines, Norberg was accused of attacking the jail detention officers who were trying to restrain him. In the subsequent struggle and restraint, he died. According to an investigation by Amnesty International, Norberg was already handcuffed and face down when officers dragged him from his cell and placed him in a restraint chair with a towel covering his face. His death, according to the Maricopa County medical examiner, was due to "positional asphyxia". County detention officers were acquitted of wrongdoing.

Norberg’s parents filed a lawsuit against Joe Arpaio and his office. The lawsuit was settled for $8.25 million (USD). Arpaio has consistently defended his officers' actions and the jail procedures and neither the Justice Department nor the FBI, which investigated the allegations, filed charges.
[edit]

The Brian Crenshaw case

Brian Crenshaw was a blind inmate allegedly beaten to death by guards working under Arpaio. Crenshaw suffered injuries that included a perforated intestine and a broken neck. When asked about the incident, Arpaio insisted, "The man fell off a bunk."
[edit]

The Fountain Hills prank calls case

During April, 2004, Arpaio became involved in more controversy when he accused the West Bridgewater, Massachusetts Police Department of being unprofessional over their handling of surveillance tapes from an AT&T store that showed a suspect making prank calls to several restaurants. The calls instructed restaurant managers to strip-search female customers — minors included. Several managers were arrested as a result. Arpaio believed that the suspect in the tapes from West Bridgewater might be connected to a similar case in Fountain Hills, Arizona. In response to Arpaio's comments, West Bridgewater Sheriff Raymund S. Rogers was quoted as saying "I think he's mad that our detectives just happen to be better than his detectives".

The West Bridgewater Police Department has refused to share the tapes showing the suspect prank-caller with Arizona law enforcement for the Fountain Hills investigation.
[edit]

James Saville

James Saville was arrested in 1999 for attempting to murder Joe Arpaio. A jury decided that officers from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department had entrapped Saville and found him not guilty [2].
[edit]

Torture

Arpaio has been accused of allowing the torture of inmates at his jails in a documentary from Channel 4 in Britain Channel 4.
[edit]

Illegal Aliens

Recently, Joe Arpaio has stated on FOX News as well as radio stations that he is deporting illegal aliens back to Mexico if they have committed felonies. He has deported over one hundred to date, and has gained largely public support for doing so. Arpaio uses for enforcement a controversial ruling by his county's attorney, which constructs undocumented workers as felon co-conspirators in human smuggling. Punishment could be up to two years in jail, and the county attorney's legal opinion is being challenged in court.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio)




My advice would be to not get thrown in Arpaio's jail...or do stuff like commit crimes and chase young women while you are deranged on speed.

[whottt]

Arpaio has also instituted what he calls "Hard Knocks High", the only accredited high school in an American jail.
That, along with an anti-drug program, says Arpaio, has resulted in a high percentage of his inmates leaving jail without their addictions and few of them returning.

[whottt]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arizona criminals find jail too in-'tents'

Arpaio has dramatically cut prison costs since becoming sheriff seven years ago



July 27, 1999
Web posted at: 2:00 p.m. EDT (1800 GMT)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this story:

Pink underwear and bedtime stories

RELATED STORIES, SITES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MARICOPA COUNTY, Arizona (CNN) -- The tent city looks like a military camp in the desert, with thick canvas sleeping quarters spreading out in a remote area of Arizona.

The inhabitants, however, are not soldiers, but residents of an unusual, some say brutal, prison run by legendary lawman Joe Arpaio, called the toughest sheriff in the West.

For the Maricopa County sheriff, who opened the nation's largest tent prison in 1993, saving taxpayer pennies matters more than comforting convicted felons.

"We took away coffee, that saved $150,000 a year. Why do you need coffee in jail?" says Arpaio, patrolling the dusty, barren grounds. "Switched to bologna sandwiches, that saved half a million dollars a year."

Arpaio makes inmates pay for their meals, which some say are worse than those for the guard dogs. Canines eat $1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. "I'm very proud of that too."

Critics rail against harsh conditions in the prison, where temperatures can top 100 degrees.

"We still have rights, but they act like we're scum," one inmate complains.

Adds Eleanor Eisenberg of the ACLU: "Sheriff Arpaio has conditions in his jail that are inhumane, and he's proud of it."

Arpaio boasts of his chain gangs for men and women, which "contribute thousands of dollars of free labor to taxpayers each month," according to his Web site.


Sheriff Arpaio requires inmates to wear striped uniforms and pink underwear

Pink underwear and bedtime stories

Inmates follow strict fashion and lifestyle guidelines. They are forced to wear old-fashioned prison stripes and pink underwear. Prohibited items include cigarettes, adult magazines, hot lunches and television -- except for his bedtime story reading, a self-styled literacy program broadcast nightly to the inmates.

The sheriff, who spent more than 25 years in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, including a stint as a special agent in Turkey, has taken justice to rare extremes in other areas as well.

He has the nation's largest group of volunteer law enforcers, according to his Web site. More than 2,500 people are in his "posse," who go after prostitutes, graffiti artists and criminals at shopping malls.

Although Arpaio has lowered the prison budget, his unorthodox prison management style has led to some high legal expenses. The country has been hit with hundreds of inmate-related lawsuits, and ordered to pay millions in legal damages. Recent cases include:

In January, the county settled a wrongful-death suit filed by the family of Scott Norberg for $8.5 million. He died, reportedly of asphyxiation, as he struggled with prison guards in 1996.


The inmates live in tents in a sparse environment without air conditioning
In April, a jury awarded $1.5 million to an inmate denied medical treatment for a perforated ulcer. Tim Griffin, arrested for driving with a suspended license, required several surgeries for the perforated ulcer.

Another former inmate suing Arpaio, Richard Post, a paraplegic, claims guards treated him brutally and caused spinal cord damage.

Arpaio, who has also settled a civil suit with the U.S. Department of Justice over jail conditions, brushes off charges of brutality.

"That's garbage. Look at my officers. We run the safest jail system in the U.S.," he said.

Arpaio is among the state's most popular office-holders. He enjoys an 85 percent approval rating among voters in the county, which at 9,200 square miles is larger than some states, and includes the city of Phoenix.

Even some inmates treat him like a celebrity. As the sheriff stands in a group of female prisoners, one presents a legal pad.

"You want an autograph? What you got here? What's your name?" he asks.

On another occasion, a male prisoner, a look of anger on his face, tries to talk to the sheriff, who quickly interrupts:

"You have been convicted. You're doing your time. Do your time and shut your mouth and do what you have to do."

[whottt]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/jail.jpg

:lol



Canines eat $1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. "I'm very proud of that too."

:lol



"We still have rights, but they act like we're scum," one inmate complains.

LMAO...you are scum...what an idiot. :lol. Stay out of his jail if you don't like it.

This guy rules....too bad he's 75 years old.


And...


He enjoys an 85 percent approval rating among voters in the county, which at 9,200 square miles is larger than some states, and includes the city of Phoenix.

His people are happy with the job he does.

[whottt]

I bet that 120 degree heat results in a very passive group of criminals as well.

[DarkReign]

Fuck criminals. Could give a rats-ass if some get beat to death or God forbid, heat stroke.

They forfeited their rights upon conviction. You now have one freedom...the freedom to live.

[turambar85]

Dark, I don't know that I entirely believe what this man is doing is wrong...but I do not believe that it is said anywhere in the constitution or any other set of laws that criminals lose all rights save the one to life.

Now, even if I am mistaken, and that is wrong, if prisoners die in the hands of the prison, then they are losing that right as well....

[DarkReign]

Dark, I don't know that I entirely believe what this man is doing is wrong...but I do not believe that it is said anywhere in the constitution or any other set of laws that criminals lose all rights save the one to life.

Oh, I know that. I was just opining.


Now, even if I am mistaken, and that is wrong, if prisoners die in the hands of the prison, then they are losing that right as well....

I am exaggerating to prove a point. Dont be so literal. :smokin

[turambar85]

lol, I wouldnt be so literal....but that is the outlook that many people actually do have, and they must have that view to give him such overwhelming support.

There is a happy medium in everything, and if found, is often the best place to operate. He can make his prison hell without making it downright torture.

I mean, ignoring the people who deserve to be there, but some people are wrongly inprisoned, and others, I am sure, may not have committed crimes bad enough to warrant that kind of punishment.

No prison should actually have prisoners die due to the conditions, not in a civilized society.

[Spurminator]

Seriously... Cable?

[whottt]

I mean, ignoring the people who deserve to be there, but some people are wrongly inprisoned, and others,

That would most likely be the failure of the judicial system...

It's not his job to determine guilt or innocence, it's his job to house those found guilty.



I am sure, may not have committed crimes bad enough to warrant that kind of punishment.

What kind of punishment?

Like the man said...the guys fighting in Iraq aren't criminals....why should criminals have it better?



No prison should actually have prisoners die due to the conditions, not in a civilized society.

It's criminals that keep a society from being civilized...

[Doc Jerome]

I like this guy!

[Mavs_man_41]

I like what he is doing but can't help but feel bad for the guy who was denied medical treatment just for driving with a suspended license. I could care less what happens to the murderers and rapists.

[ShackO]

I heard about this guy a while back but never paid him much mind figuring he would be gone soon………..

No tacos and cable………. Certainly inhumane.....lol

What is the recidivism in the county?? I goggled around and found many conflicting numbers???

[ChumpDumper]

I wonder how much the crime rate has gone down in that county.

[Mavs_man_41]

I wonder how much the crime rate has gone down in that county.

probably a considerable amount, i would guess around 25%.

[ChumpDumper]

We shouldn't have to guess with this guy's media coverage.

[Mavs_man_41]

http://www.arpaio.com/

lmao a site dedicated to getting rid of him

[ShackO]

I saw that but I am not sure if their info is correct......... I was looking for something "official"........ You run accross any???

[Mavs_man_41]

Sorry thats what i was looking for......keep checking maybe someone will post something.

[scott]

I wonder how much the crime rate has gone down in that county.

For kicks... I looked up Phoenix...

http://phoenix.gov/haht-bin/hsrun/payf/CRIMGRIDP/CrimeGrid.htx;start=HS_selectAnalysis


1996:

205 Homicides
759 Sexual Assualts
10966 Violent Crime Total
123205 Total Crimes

1997:

125 Homicides
802 Sexual Assualts
11263 Violent Crime Total
129969 Total Crimes

1998:

226 Homicides
778 Sexual Assualts
11007 Violent Crime Total
122207 Total Crimes

1999:

250 Homicides
803 Sexual Assualts
10388 Violent Crime Total
110407 Total Crimes

2000:

169 Homicides
678 Sexual Assualts
9755 Violent Crime Total
110258 Total Crimes

2001:

247 Homicides
665 Sexual Assualts
10721 Violent Crime Total
116021 Total Crimes

2002:

240 Homicides
612 Sexual Assualts
9605 Violent Crime Total
121474 Total Crimes

2003:

254 Homicides
757 Sexual Assualts
9816 Violent Crime Total
122047 Total Crimes

2004:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10503 Violent Crime Total
131052 Total Crimes

2005:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10782 Violent Crime Total
12136 Total Crimes

First Half 2006:

127 Homicides
695 Sexual Assaults
5836 Violent Crime Total
58240 Total Crimes

-----------

There appears to be no significant or discernable trend over the last 10 years... and any trends would need to controlled for national and regional trends, population growth, etc. So, please don't draw any conclusions other than you can say there has been no major drop off in the number of crimes in Phoenix in the last 10 years.

[kris]

That's inhumane. Prisoners should be given something to live for/keep entertained. I disagree with much of his policies, but the idea generating revenue from inmates is a good idea.

[ShackO]

WTF happened in 97????

Not good numbers but not the recidivism rate either........ How many of those murders and sex offenders were repeaters???


It wouldn't appear to be much of a deterent.......... Most criminals don't plan on getting caught..........

[exstatic]

It's not his job to determine guilt or innocence, it's his job to house those found guilty.
Actually, it's the county stir, not a penitentiary. There are people there who are simply awaiting trial, and will be acquited. Medical treatment should also never be withheld.

[Kori Ellis]

Actually, it's the county stir, not a penitentiary. There are people there who are simply awaiting trial, and will be acquited.

Is that actually the case? I understood only convicts were in the tent city and that the people awaiting trial are in a regular jail.

[exstatic]

Is that actually the case? I understood only convicts were in the tent city and that the people awaiting trial are in a regular jail.
You're right, Kori. The net effect, however, is that Joe gets his sadistic rocks off, and the moron voters of Maricopa county, plus idjits like whottt, get entertained. Doesn't look like it does a damn thing about crime...

[whottt]

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. :lol :lol :lol

[whottt]

For kicks... I looked up Phoenix...

http://phoenix.gov/haht-bin/hsrun/payf/CRIMGRIDP/CrimeGrid.htx;start=HS_selectAnalysis


1996:

205 Homicides
759 Sexual Assualts
10966 Violent Crime Total
123205 Total Crimes

1997:

12 Homicides
802 Sexual Assualts
11263 Violent Crime Total
129969 Total Crimes

1998:

226 Homicides
778 Sexual Assualts
11007 Violent Crime Total
122207 Total Crimes

1999:

250 Homicides
803 Sexual Assualts
10388 Violent Crime Total
110407 Total Crimes

2000:

169 Homicides
678 Sexual Assualts
9755 Violent Crime Total
110258 Total Crimes

2001:

247 Homicides
665 Sexual Assualts
10721 Violent Crime Total
116021 Total Crimes

2002:

240 Homicides
612 Sexual Assualts
9605 Violent Crime Total
121474 Total Crimes

2003:

254 Homicides
757 Sexual Assualts
9816 Violent Crime Total
122047 Total Crimes

2004:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10503 Violent Crime Total
131052 Total Crimes

2005:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10782 Violent Crime Total
12136 Total Crimes

First Half 2006:

127 Homicides
695 Sexual Assaults
5836 Violent Crime Total
58240 Total Crimes

-----------

There appears to be no significant or discernable trend over the last 10 years... and any trends would need to controlled for national and regional trends, population growth, etc. So, please don't draw any conclusions other than you can say there has been no major drop off in the number of crimes in Phoenix in the last 10 years.



Doesn't Phoenix have a police department? And wouldn't the city of Phoenix be their responsiblity?


Plus this guy was elected in 1992...not 96.

[whottt]

I wonder how much the crime rate has gone down in that county.


I wonder how many repeat offenders they have and what the recidivism rate is.

I also wonder what the crime rate by the inmates within that jail is...Drugs, sexual abuse etc....compared to other jails.


I'd be willing to bet both are extremely low.

And finally I wonder that their success rate is in solving crimes and aprehending criminals.

[whottt]

WTF happened in 97????

Not good numbers but not the recidivism rate either........ How many of those murders and sex offenders were repeaters???


It wouldn't appear to be much of a deterent.......... Most criminals don't plan on getting caught..........


Most criminals don't count on getting caught...but it's when they do that what he does will have an impact IMO.

The pleasantness of your jail stay can be a life changing experience for a lot of guys.

I bet even the most hardened of criminals leave that place swearing to go back to jail...in fact I'd be willing to bet that everyone that spends anytime in that tent jail leaves vowing never to be stupid enough to return.


I'd rather be homeless than be in that jail....that's not true of a lot of jails.

[scott]

Doesn't Phoenix have a police department? And wouldn't the city of Phoenix be their responsiblity?


Plus this guy was elected in 1992...not 96.

I went back to 1996, because that's all it let me.

I'm having trouble deciphering what your first two sentences where supposed to mean... but I'll give it a try.

Yes, Phoenix has a police department. No, it is not the police department's responsibility to deter crime. The job of a police department is to apprehend criminals when a crime is committed.

Is it the job of the legislature to establish laws that deter crime, the judicial system to enforce those laws that deter crime, and the penitentiary system to efficiently run a system that deters crime.

The judicial and penitentiary systems don't simply exist to exact revenge upon those who have committed crimes - they exist to do their part in detering future crimes. Making prisoner's suffer does nothing to reverse the damage that has been done to those who have been victimized by crime. The main benefit from an effective judiciary and jail system is the people who are saved from being victimized in the future. A system that does nothing to deter crime isn't worth the time, effort or money.

[scott]

PS:... should read 125 murders in 1997... has been corrected.

[whottt]

I went back to 1996, because that's all it let me.

I'm having trouble deciphering what your first two sentences where supposed to mean... but I'll give it a try.

Yes, Phoenix has a police department. No, it is not the police department's responsibility to deter crime. The job of a police department is to apprehend criminals when a crime is committed.

.


:wtf


Anyway...my point was, well it's going to be lost since you don't think peace officers are supposed to deter crime...

I can't say for sure how Phoenix and this county work...

But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.

So the Phoenix crime stats don't have a whole lot of bearing on how well the Sherriff's department is doing it's job.

I could be wrong...the county might have jurisdiction over the PD anywhere in the county, but it wouldn't be the norm.

But if it's like Austin then a substantial number of criminals convicted of crimes in Phoenix will serve time at the country jail....

And I do think a jail being miserable rather than comfortable is a deterrent...at least to first time offenders.

[Kori Ellis]

But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.

That's correct for Phoenix/Maricopa County. I have a lot of Phoenix police officers in my family.

[ShackO]

Still no info on the recidivism rate ........????

How many of those murders and sex offenders were repeaters is really what it is all about!!!!!!!

[whottt]

I found a blog site that claimed the recidivism rate is 15% compared to the national rate of 85%...but I don't put much stock in those numbers since they weren't linked to an official site....and 85% seems just a tad high for the national recidivism rate.

[ShackO]

Is it odd not to find that info anywhere???

You would think it would be deep in ink........... :bang

[scott]

:wtf


Anyway...my point was, well it's going to be lost since you don't think peace officers are supposed to deter crime...

I can't say for sure how Phoenix and this county work...

But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.

So the Phoenix crime stats don't have a whole lot of bearing on how well the Sherriff's department is doing it's job.

I could be wrong...the county might have jurisdiction over the PD anywhere in the county, but it wouldn't be the norm.

But if it's like Austin then a substantial number of criminals convicted of crimes in Phoenix will serve time at the country jail....

And I do think a jail being miserable rather than comfortable is a deterrent...at least to first time offenders.

Tell me then how a police department goes about deterring crime. If your point was to say that the jail system for crimes committed in the city of Phoenix is not the county jail system - then that's a good point. I don't know the answer to that. But if Phoenix criminals end up in this county jail, then Phoenix crime trends are very much an indicator of how this jail system is working (not the same as "how the Sheriff's dept is doing it's job").

I agree that a jail being miserable is probably a deterrent. I know I sure wouldn't want to be in one. Whether or not it has actually served as an effective deterrent, is another matter - and would make an interesting statistical survey (for which I have neither the time or particular interest in this instance). One would think the death penalty would be an effective deterrent, but it has shown not to be.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Maybe if all County Jails were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

I think you'd have to fix society before you'd see "a lot less crime." Just a hunch, but I figure most felons probably didn't have the best childhood.

[sabar]

Did a lot of research on this a while ago, pretty interesting.

There is no reduced rate in repeat offenders from tent-city or any significant detterance effect. It is, however, cheap to run. By cutting out luxuries and eliminating the need to construct a large prison, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to house the inmates.

I like the idea soley based on the fact of putting less of the budget into the prisons system. Most states can't even finance new prisons and face massive overcrowding problems.

The inmates are forced to wear pink undergarments and the prisoners also pay for their own meals. Just some tidbits. Laters. Maybe I can find my book and give hard numbers on stuff.

Oh yeah, and don't bother quoting Wikipedia. That article is slanted to be anti-tent city. Find some cold hard numbers and facts.

[sabar]

Aside: Punishment is not an effective deterrant to crime. Even things like having more police officers on the beat has no effect of detering crime. A study in Kansas City where additional police officers were placed on patrols showed no change in crime rate. The only change in reported crime happened when there were zero officers on patrol. Jail time and capital punishment have also been shown to have no effect on preventing crime.

Murders will go to any end to get their task accomplished. Fear of the death penalty or 100 years in prison. Same thing essentially. Hardened criminals and people that commit violent crimes will do so to any end.

I'd bet if the penalty for speeding was death, most people would still try and get away with it.

[Big P]

For kicks... I looked up Phoenix...

http://phoenix.gov/haht-bin/hsrun/payf/CRIMGRIDP/CrimeGrid.htx;start=HS_selectAnalysis


1996:

205 Homicides
759 Sexual Assualts
10966 Violent Crime Total
123205 Total Crimes

1997:

125 Homicides
802 Sexual Assualts
11263 Violent Crime Total
129969 Total Crimes

1998:

226 Homicides
778 Sexual Assualts
11007 Violent Crime Total
122207 Total Crimes

1999:

250 Homicides
803 Sexual Assualts
10388 Violent Crime Total
110407 Total Crimes

2000:

169 Homicides
678 Sexual Assualts
9755 Violent Crime Total
110258 Total Crimes

2001:

247 Homicides
665 Sexual Assualts
10721 Violent Crime Total
116021 Total Crimes

2002:

240 Homicides
612 Sexual Assualts
9605 Violent Crime Total
121474 Total Crimes

2003:

254 Homicides
757 Sexual Assualts
9816 Violent Crime Total
122047 Total Crimes

2004:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10503 Violent Crime Total
131052 Total Crimes

2005:

238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10782 Violent Crime Total
12136 Total Crimes

First Half 2006:

127 Homicides
695 Sexual Assaults
5836 Violent Crime Total
58240 Total Crimes

-----------

There appears to be no significant or discernable trend over the last 10 years... and any trends would need to controlled for national and regional trends, population growth, etc. So, please don't draw any conclusions other than you can say there has been no major drop off in the number of crimes in Phoenix in the last 10 years.

I would also guess that the population has grown over the past 10 years.

[scott]

I would also guess that the population has grown over the past 10 years.

I would also guess that I already mentioned that.

[2centsworth]

I would also guess that I already mentioned that.
the population has almost doubled in that time.