At The Beginning Of The Off-Season......

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Did anyone honestly think that Elson and Butler would be our centers and for even that matter actually be an option for us? I know I didn't! I just hope that RC knows what he's doing. I thought it was gonna be Javtokas and Przybilla.

[Mr. Body]

At the beginning of the offseason, no one thought Rasho would be traded.

Lo, it happened.

Me, I fully expected Scola and/or Javtokas to be Spurs.

[strangeweather]

I figured they would find a way to move Rasho. I had no idea that either of these guys would suit up for us, and I definitely figured Javtokas would be on board. I thought we might sign or trade for a center a little further up the food chain -- Magloire, for example.

[Ocotillo]

I did not see this coming. I expected Nazr to walk and because of that, I thought Rasho was going to stay unless something earthshattering happened.

I bought into the Javotkos is coming thing but did not think Scola would be part of the plans for the upcoming season.

I thought Barry and someone else (maybe Scola's rights) would be shipped off for a younger small forward.

Did anyone nab Qyntel Woods yet? NY used up all the MLE to get Jeffries so could Woods be picked up on the cheap?

[El_Mago]

One of the two centers had to go..... we didn't think they would both end up leaving.

Scola was not going to get pursued very much, no real need for him at the moment, and especially at his asking price.

We expected Javtokas, but that didn't work out.

The additions of Butler and Elson will come in handy.....Elson can run the floor when we play small, and he's big enough to still be a presence. Butler can bang down low and do the things true big men do......both allow us versatile line ups.

We didn't specifically expect Vaughn, but we expected a veteran PG.

Eric Williams is an experienced veteran, and if he's still on board, we should expect him to be a valuable asset to the team, and be a leader in the locker room.

[furry_spurry]

Big Men: I tried to warn people for a couple of weeks that the Javtokas thing was not a done deal. I never, ever expected Scola. That is why I was down on the moves the Spurs were making because they traded Rasho--thinking that somehow with Rasho gone then Nazr would stay-- but that just wasn't going to happen. I actually thought the Spurs might trade Oberto instead of Rasho, and the original rumor about the Spurs wanting to trade Oberto for Bonner makes some sense-- but Toronto wanted Rasho- a traditional center for the Eastern Conference. The Spurs took a gamble here and it did not go as they had hoped. People kept holding out false hope that all of this was leading to something wonderful, but it wasn't. I am certain that Elson was not option A, B, C, or D. Butler was a nice pick-up, though.

PG: went as figured. Beno should get his chance and the Spurs signed a defensive-minded veteran for the minimum. It just remains to be seen if the Spurs exercise Beno's option.

Perimeter: I am positive the Spurs have looked at trading Barry, but to no avail. I would not be surprised to see them wait to attempt again at the trade deadline- like happened with Malik two years in a row. I was completely wrong in my thinking that the Spurs would somehow trade into the first round of the draft and pick a SF. I did not think Williams would ever wear a Spurs uniform but my thinking has completely changed there.

[ALVAREZ6]

This is a disappointing offseason.

[ducks]

yeah manu and filler did not happen

[Bruno]

the original rumor about the Spurs wanting to trade Oberto for Bonner makes some sense-- but Toronto wanted Rasho- a traditional center for the Eastern Conference.

:lol
furry_spurry re-writing what happened just to serve his Rasho love.

- Oberto for Bonner : somebody with some Raptor's insider sources has just make a mistake by reporting this trade the day the Rasho's trade was reported. As far as I know, this deal has never been discussed.

- Spurs wanting Oberto for Bonner and Raptors wanting Rasho is just speculation from your part and it's likely false. Rasho for Bonner + Williams was the deal on the table for one week before the Rasho's trade, Spurs and Raps were just waiting for Williams to pick his 06-07 player option.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I wasn't surprised that both of the centers left. Nazr had a big payday coming and Pop clearly wasn't too high on him at the tail end of things. Rasho had been on the block for the last year and a half and the Spurs were very motivated sellers this year. I wasn't surprised in the least that Elson wound up here (though there was some sticker shock on his contract), but I figured him as a second stringer behind Pryzbilla or Javtokas (for some reason my gut said we might get one or the other, but not both). Butler wasn't even on my radar. I saw the chatter here but I wrote him off from the start with Isiah's spending tendencies. Pleasant surprise.

[wildbill2u]

Did anyone honestly think that Elson and Butler would be our centers and for even that matter actually be an option for us? I know I didn't! I just hope that RC knows what he's doing. I thought it was gonna be Javtokas and Przybilla.

I figured NAZR was history because of his projected salary. I never thought they could trade Rasho so I thought he'd be here.

I expected Javotkas to be here for at least a trial. Now, considering his age and new contract, I don't know if he'll ever be here.

Scola hasn't wanted to pay out his contract so there was little or no chance he'd come. I don't think he'd be more than a way-back--up for Tim which means very little playing time. We ought to trade him next year when his contract is up and some team might need him more than we do.

[furry_spurry]

- Oberto for Bonner : somebody with some Raptor's insider sources has just make a mistake by reporting this trade the day the Rasho's trade was reported. As far as I know, this deal has never been discussed.
Actually, I heard the Oberto-Bonner trade rumor days before the Rasho trade happened. Later, I remember Timvp stating his belief that it was believable.

Either way-- I don't see how this is re-writing anything to serve anything. Toronto obviously wanted Rasho. People said forever on here that no team would take Rasho or that the Spurs would have to throw in some other player or some draft rights or draft picks, but Toronto wanted Rasho-- and Rasho alone. An NBA Executive of the Year traded 2 expiring contracts and a draft pick to get Rasho. The Spurs themselves said they were taking a risk on doing this when they did-- RC said so in SA and PJ said in a radio interview. In my view- their gamble back-fired. Not only did they end up with Elson, but it also messed up everything about bringing Javtokas in because they had to spend money on someone who could start IMMEDIATELY- since Rasho and Nazr were gone. Opposite of most of the people on here- who believed it opened up an opportunity for Robertas- I thought the day Rasho was traded than Javtokas' chances were lessened because I was sure Nazr would leave and then the team needed NBA experience at center-- with Oberto their remaining option. That turned out to be the option chosen by the Spurs.

[FromWayDowntown]

I was convinced during the playoffs that the Spurs would try to start over in the middle, realizing that neither Rasho nor Nazr is capable of playing the multiple styles that the NBA circa 2006 requires. They're quickly becoming dinosaurs and neither brings a dominating facet like Shaq or Yao that compels an opponent to matchup. Both Sacramento and Dallas figured that out; rather than worrying about whether they could matchup with the Spurs front line, they went with more athletic players and forced the Spurs to adjust with uncomfortable, small lineups.

Nazr's departure was a foregone conclusion, I think -- if not because Pop wanted him gone, because Nazr didn't want to be in SA anymore.

The Rasho deal was a surprise because it actually happened, but not surprising inasmuch as it had been clear for some time that the Spurs were actively shopping him and looking to get what they could for him. That they pulled off Bonner and Williams' expiring deal was a solid effort, I think.

[ChumpDumper]

I figured both centers were gonzo; Rasho because he cost too much and Nazr because he never learned anything. I called Rasho to Toronto for Williams/Araujo, not Bonner. I thought we would try to work out a sign and trade with Nazr, but neither party seemed interested. I thought we would offer Przybilla the full MLE since that would be the only way to get him. I knew the Spurs wouldn't offer Javtokas any more than the LLE. I didn't see Elson or Butler on the Spurs' radar at all.

Vaughn was a completely understandable signing I'm more or less glad we got out of the way quickly. Pop still has little faith in Beno, but Vaughn isn't so clearly superior as to steal the backup job in training camp. A guy like Pargo might have been able to.

As for the wings, I didn't expect much as long as Barry remained on the team. Only a guy like Qyntel might sign himself into this crowded lineup. That may be changing a bit as the available money has dried up considerably and a guy like Jumaine Jones is still out there. I am very glad that the Spurs at least attempted to find a small forward in summer league. I have my doubts that Melzer or Jamar could actually make it in the league as small forwards, but bringing them to camp is alot better than telling Britton Johnsen there's no room for him on day one.

[Bruno]

Actually, I heard the Oberto-Bonner trade rumor days before the Rasho trade happened. Later, I remember Timvp stating his belief that it was believable.

If you heard it ... :)
I've seen nowhere a Bonner/Oberto trade rumor.



Either way-- I don't see how this is re-writing anything to serve anything. Toronto obviously wanted Rasho.

re-read your post, you say that Spurs wanted to trade Oberto while Toronto wanted to get Rasho. The truth is that Spurs wanted to get ride of Rasho and his contract.



People said forever on here that no team would take Rasho or that the Spurs would have to throw in some other player or some draft rights or draft picks, but Toronto wanted Rasho-- and Rasho alone.

I've always said that Rasho was tradable but we get a better deal than what I thought, thanks Colangelo.



An NBA Executive of the Year traded 2 expiring contracts and a draft pick to get Rasho. The Spurs themselves said they were taking a risk on doing this when they did-- RC said so in SA and PJ said in a radio interview.

Being executive of the year argument doesn't change the fact that you can do mistakes like Q. Colangelo has make a poor offseason (Rasho's trade CV for Ford, Garbajosa ...) and hasn't get enough in the Rasho trade and even if Rasho plays great with raptors (I wish him the best), it won't change that he has make a bad trade.



In my view- their gamble back-fired.

It's your view but I disagree.



Not only did they end up with Elson, but it also messed up everything about bringing Javtokas in because they had to spend money on someone who could start IMMEDIATELY- since Rasho and Nazr were gone.

And they get Butler.
They haven't signed Javtokas because Butler is a better project. Not getting Javtokas isn't related with Elson or with Rasho. Spurs have chosen Elson (and his contract) over Rasho and Butler over Javtokas.

[Bruno]

At the start of the offseason, 3 points needed some work : Backup PG, long SF, Bigs.

I really like Vaughn + Udrih as backup PG, our bigs rotation can be enough even if it's not great but we really need to get a long SF. If we can fill that need in a trade (with Barry) we will be fine.

[furry_spurry]

They haven't signed Javtokas because Butler is a better project. Not getting Javtokas isn't related with Elson or with Rasho. Spurs have chosen Elson (and his contract) over Rasho and Butler over Javtokas.
They could have gotten Javtokas AND Butler (which I would have preferred)-- but they had to have someone who could start now- Elson. The reason for needing an immediate starter is the loss of Rasho and Nazr.

[furry_spurry]

re-read your post, you say that Spurs wanted to trade Oberto while Toronto wanted to get Rasho.
I am again basing that on the belief that the Oberto-Bonner trade discussions were a valid rumor. Spurs seem very happy about getting Bonner but not so thrilled about getting Williams. The Raptors even threw in a draft pick to get the deal done. Toronto is very happy about getting Rasho-- seems the Raptors got what they wanted- whether you agree with their choice or not.

[angel_luv]

If you heard it ... :)
I've seen nowhere a Bonner/Oberto trade rumor.



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44501&highlight=Oberto+Bonner


:angel

[Bruno]

They could have gotten Javtokas AND Butler (which I would have preferred)-- but they had to have someone who could start now- Elson.

So Rasho + Javtokas + Butler to play center while Duncan had to play center against teams like Mavs or Suns ? Unrealistic.
Spurs likely wanted one vet center to start and one project. And even if Spurs really wanted Javtokas and Butler, they could have given the LLE to Javtokas (it seemed that it was enough).
And for your theory about the Rasho trade hurting chances to get Javtokas : Spurs have sent a letter to javtokas' european agent saying that they will sign Javtokas just after they get the deal with Toronto.

[Bruno]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44501&highlight=Oberto+Bonner


:angel

I know, if you look I started this thread but it's from the day when Spurs do the Rasho deal.

[furry_spurry]

Spurs have sent a letter to javtokas' european agent saying that they will sign Javtokas just after they get the deal with Toronto.
Spurs denied that. Whether true or not-- I don't know.

[Bruno]

Spurs seem very happy about getting Bonner but not so thrilled about getting Williams. The Raptors even threw in a draft pick to get the deal done.

And Spurs throw $1M ($1M > 2009 second round pick). Spurs seem really happy to get ride of Rasho's contract.



Toronto is very happy about getting Rasho-- seems the Raptors got what they wanted- whether you agree with their choice or not.

i'm sure that Rasho will be quite good with Raptors but it doesn't change the fact that Colangelo could have done a better deal.

[Bruno]

Spurs denied that. Whether true or not-- I don't know.

Are you sure they denied ?
If I remember well they only say "no comment".

[furry_spurry]

And Spurs throw $1M ($1M > 2009 second round pick). Spurs seem really happy to get ride of Rasho's contract.


It was less than a $1M and was to make up for the salary difference this season. Rasho makes more than Bonner and Williams combined this season.

Yes, the Spurs are happy to get rid of Rasho's contract for financial reasons- but that won't help them win any games. On the other side, the Raptors are happy to have Rasho for basketball reasons. :)


Are you sure they denied ?
If I remember well they only say "no comment".
In July RC Buford specifically denied that the Spurs had had any contact with Javtokas.


i'm sure that Rasho will be quite good with Raptors but it doesn't change the fact that Colangelo could have done a better deal.
Rasho very specifically filled a role for the Raptors-
--they wanted a center with NBA experience so Bosh (who was up for his extension) wouldn't have to play center against the big boys of the East. Ironically, when the Spurs brought Rasho in, Duncan was signing his new deal and wanted a center to guard Shaq ... (with DRob's retirement) and the Spurs got Rasho who they thought was the best prospect available that summer.
-- they wanted someone who could defend and blocks shots
-- they did NOT want to have to give a FA a five-year deal
-- they wanted someone who could help mentor Bargnani in his transition from Europe to the NBA. Not only has Rasho done that, he even speaks Italian.
-- they wanted to dump Williams and his salary

Who do you think Troonto should have gotten- and be realistic.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs are quite happy with Bonner. Three-point shooting PFs help win games.

[BALLZ & MY WORD]

I was expecting us to get a little bit younger on the wing. Aside from that I'm actually optimistic about the front court. Getting rid of Rasho the SLOWvenian was a plus in my book. That contract was an albatross around the neck of our salary cap.