Oh shit...

[DarkReign]

Placido Palanco just went down on an inning-ending play....hard.

This....is not good at all....

[NorCal510]

who da fuck

[DarkReign]

Seperated shoulder...more to come.

[DarkReign]

who da fuck

Shut the fuck up, fat man.

[jochhejaam]

Seperated shoulder...more to come.
Great catch, too bad about the shoulder. Rodriguez said in a post-game interview that he'd be out for the season (Ivan's not a Dr.)

Tigers called up Ramon Santiago and they have Infante who Rod Allen was just pimpin' yesterday. We'll be okay and hopefully he'll be back this season.

[Dunc]

Yeah, hoping to hear something conclusive about his timetable for return.

Fantastic catch though.

[MajorMike]

Pal is a nice, very servicable 2B that hits around 300 but has never scored more than 80 or batted in more than 60. He's a nice everyday player and a solid fielder, and I've never understood why he gets paid so much. That comes from a Card who wanted to get him back this off season, he's just not worth the cash IMO.

[DarkReign]

Pal is a nice, very servicable 2B that hits around 300 but has never scored more than 80 or batted in more than 60. He's a nice everyday player and a solid fielder, and I've never understood why he gets paid so much. That comes from a Card who wanted to get him back this off season, he's just not worth the cash IMO.

Uhhhhhhh......he makes $4.6 million, a career .991 fielding%, a career .300 hitter, last year would have won the batting title if he wasnt traded between leagues, solidifies the top of the order on any club, and signed a 4 (or 5) year deal at 4.6 per?

If the fans didnt vote, this guy would be an All Star. Just becauyse he doesnt hit for power, yet ranks 2nd in the AL in RISP%. Oh yeah, this guy makes waaaaay too much money at a mere 4.6.

Oh yeah, I see exactly how he isnt worth that much. :rolleyes

[MajorMike]

He hits the ball a bunch. He doesn't score a bunch or knock in a bunch of runs. Eckstein (yes a SS not 2B) scores far more runs on a NL team, has a comperable career ave (290) makes much less money (2,333,333 to 4,600,000) and IS an All Star, yet he is not someone the Cards couldn't do without if they had to. Again, I'm not knocking Pal, I wish we had him, I just don't think he's worth all that.

[Vizzini]

It was a shitty injury for sure, but a helluva catch. I think the Tigers will miss him a little, but they should be able to fight the good fight with him on the shelf. It was quite wierd last night seeing Pudge out there playing second for two innings. It was almost surreal.

[DarkReign]

He hits the ball a bunch. He doesn't score a bunch or knock in a bunch of runs. Eckstein (yes a SS not 2B) scores far more runs on a NL team, has a comperable career ave (290) makes much less money (2,333,333 to 4,600,000) and IS an All Star, yet he is not someone the Cards couldn't do without if they had to. Again, I'm not knocking Pal, I wish we had him, I just don't think he's worth all that.

Well, your buddy makes $4.5 million next year, his 8th in the Bigs (same as PP this year), the last year of his free agent contract he signed in 04 (3 year deal).

Your cheap SS, I have a feeling is going to get significantly more expensive in 08. So PP's contract is going to look real good, real fast.

Im not trying to come off rude, I am reading my post, and it sounds that way. I just meant that PP is a helluva deal, and completely disagree that he is paid too much in comparison to other players of his ilk.

[MajorMike]

Compare him to someone else. He's not an All Star, he's a nice everyday hitter/fielder, never be a game breaker.

Compare him to someone like that.
Grudzielanek, career .287, 36 y/o, $1,000,000 (Former All Star)
Belliard, .279, 31, $2,500,000 (Former All Star)
Biggio, .284, 40, $3,000,000 (7-time All Star)
Giles, .287, 28, $2,350,000 (2-time All Star)
Kennedy, .279, 30, $3,000,000 (Former All Star)
Roberts, .281, 28, $390,000 (Former All Star)
Utley, .292, 27, $345,000 (Former All Star)
Loretta, .301, 35, $2,750,000 (2-time All Star)

Pal makes $4,600,000 and has never been an All Star. That is next to only:
Kent $7,350,000 (5-time All Star; MVP)
Vidro $7,000,000 (3-time All Star)
Castillo $5,166,667 (3-time All Star)

He is overpaid. Period.

[sa_butta]

Not to be confused with the original Oh Shit thread.

[mike detroit]

Compare him to someone else. He's not an All Star, he's a nice everyday hitter/fielder, never be a game breaker.

Compare him to someone like that.
Grudzielanek, career .287, 36 y/o, $1,000,000 (Former All Star)
Belliard, .279, 31, $2,500,000 (Former All Star)
Biggio, .284, 40, $3,000,000 (7-time All Star)
Giles, .287, 28, $2,350,000 (2-time All Star)
Kennedy, .279, 30, $3,000,000 (Former All Star)
Roberts, .281, 28, $390,000 (Former All Star)
Utley, .292, 27, $345,000 (Former All Star)
Loretta, .301, 35, $2,750,000 (2-time All Star)

Pal makes $4,600,000 and has never been an All Star. That is next to only:
Kent $7,350,000 (5-time All Star; MVP)
Vidro $7,000,000 (3-time All Star)
Castillo $5,166,667 (3-time All Star)

He is overpaid. Period.

you might want to look at his numbers with runners in scoring position before you say that.

[MajorMike]

you might want to look at his numbers with runners in scoring position before you say that.

Man, you guys will find a stat that will let you spin out of any arguement. Facts are facts. If a guy is batting 100% with runners in scoring position and only averages 40 RBI a year for his career, it means that the suck 7,8,9 hitters are only in scoring position when he comes up 40 times a year. 40 RBIs is still 40 RBIs whether you hitting .999 or .111 with runners in scoring position.

Look at MLB.com's page on Pal. On every player's page, it gives you a fantasy comparison, showing the top 4 and then them.
Fantasy Comparison:
Alfonso Soriano 1926
Chase Utley 1512
Dan Uggla 1142
Brian Roberts 1136
Placido Polanco 627
Look at yahoo rankings. He is the 16th rated 2B man. My league of 10 has 12 players that can play 2B taken. Pal isn't one of them.

Overpaid. Stats don't lie. Prove me wrong.

[mike detroit]

sorry i can't argue with amazing logic like basing a player's salary on fantasy stats

[DarkReign]

He isnt asked to produce RBIs. He bats 2nd!!

Luis Castillo - $5.4 - 44 RBI
Ray Durham - $7 - 70 RBI

He just isnt overpaid. Looking over 2nd basemen in the league, yeah, I can see where you get that. There are only a couple that really standout, and his numbers do not.

But you fail to realize what he brings and what he brought to Detroit. Not only did he obviously lock up our infield, he added a bat to our lineup that hits consistently.

With Inge, Guillen and PP the infield is set defensively (Inge needs to grow as a hitter, PP and Guillen are fine) and they are all relatively young and cheap.

Detroit isnt a small market club. When this town gets behind a team, said team can spend as much as the league allows and the fans just keep coming.

Its obvious the Tigers had to overpay to keep PP. We sucked last year.

[MajorMike]

Interesting... you wont argue based on fantasy, but you will argue based on production, All Star appearances, and like players even when you have nothing to support your claims.

He's some more stats.
He is 8th among 2B in average.
18th in runs scored.
17th in RBIs.
20th in OBP.
24th in slugging.
24th OPS.

For the best team in baseball right now.
On his own team he is 6th in runs, 9th in RBIs and yet 5th in average and 2nd in hits. Seems to me he is less clutch than the rest of the team.

[mike detroit]

Interesting... you wont argue based on fantasy, but you will argue based on production, All Star appearances, and like players even when you have nothing to support your claims.

He's some more stats.
He is 8th among 2B in average.
18th in runs scored.
17th in RBIs.
20th in OBP.
24th in slugging.
24th OPS.

For the best team in baseball right now.
On his own team he is 6th in runs, 9th in RBIs and yet 5th in average and 2nd in hits. Seems to me he is less clutch than the rest of the team.


why does this even matter to you?

[jochhejaam]

Interesting... you wont argue based on fantasy, but you will argue based on production, All Star appearances, and like players even when you have nothing to support your claims.

He's some more stats.
He is 8th among 2B in average.
18th in runs scored.
17th in RBIs.
20th in OBP.
24th in slugging.
24th OPS.

For the best team in baseball right now.
On his own team he is 6th in runs, 9th in RBIs and yet 5th in average and 2nd in hits. Seems to me he is less clutch than the rest of the team.

He has struck out only 25 times in over 400 at bats, 38 fewer than the next lowest starter (Ivan with 63).

He's 2nd on the team in hits, 3 hits behind Ordonez who has played in 10 more games (Polanco is only the 9th highest paid player on the roster).

He has 7 fewer RBI's and has scored 3 more runs that Ivan who is making $10,000,000 this year.

He's paid well but not overpaid IMO.

[MajorMike]

You guys have some serious hero worship issues. I am making one point, backed up by numbers. He is paid as the #4 2B above many All Stars and he does not have #4 2B numbers and has never been an All Star.

Comparing his salary to Pudge shows your lack of knowledge. Pudge has been to the Series and come up big. Pudge is a perinneal All Star. Pudge is a rare combo of good hitter and great defenseman you don't get in a catcher these days. You can't take your run-of-the-mill catcher and compare him to Pudge's numbers, therefore his salary is somewhat justified. As I have already shown, there are a myriad of 2Bmen you could swap Pal out with and have same numbers, more accaades, and less money.

[Marklar MM]

Would Ortiz be as good as he has been without Manny Ramirez batting behind him?

[MajorMike]

**shakes head**

I don't know, would crocs eat humans if there weren't anyone around them?

[Marklar MM]

I guess the answer to both questions is NO.

[MajorMike]

And neither has anything to do with Pal being overpaid. Thanks for playing, tho.

[Marklar MM]

You are impossible.

[MajorMike]

But right.

[Burn531]

Polanco is money with men in scoring position. That is all.

[MajorMike]

Polanco is money with men in scoring position. That is all.

At 40-50 RBIs a year and the best team in baseball, you would think that the tiggers would get more poeple in scoring position.

[DarkReign]

At 40-50 RBIs a year and the best team in baseball, you would think that the tiggers would get more poeple in scoring position.

Jealousy and envy, of all my enemies.

Youve been exposed for being a hater.

Whose your team...no no no.....lemme guess.....the Cardinals...lol

[jochhejaam]

Picking up where we left off.

Today is Polanco's first game back since the injury Aug. 15th. His first at bat with the bases loaded in the 1st inning was a double, raising his batting average with RISP to .380. The Tigers were 70-33 with him in the lineup and 22-29 without him.
The team batting average with him in the line-up was .281, without him it is .257.
They score 5.2 runs with him and 4.5 without him.
They are winning in his first game back 15-0 in the 4th inning.



Definitely not overpaid.

[DarkReign]

^ Couldnt have said it better.

[MajorMike]

Picking up where we left off.

The team batting average with him in the line-up was .281, without him it is .257.

There is the cranial quote of the century. What's his BA?

[Marklar MM]

There is the cranial quote of the century. What's his BA?

.298

[DarkReign]

.298

.380 w/RISP

[DarkReign]

There is the cranial quote of the century. What's his BA?

I know you think he is overpaid and made a pretty good case that he may be.

But to the team he is worth every penny. Total coincidence that the slumping Tigers break out in a big way the moment PP comes back?

Maybe. Tiger fans know differently though. Seen it before.

[MajorMike]

I know you think he is overpaid and made a pretty good case that he may be.

But to the team he is worth every penny. Total coincidence that the slumping Tigers break out in a big way the moment PP comes back?

Maybe. Tiger fans know differently though. Seen it before.

They have won 4 in a row. Pal has only played in 2 of those games. He has batted 9th both times.

The 1st game, the Tigers batted around and scored 10 in the 1st.

They won the day before and day after without him, sweeping the lowly Royals, worst team in baseball. They have their last 3 at home against the same Royals. If you discount the Royals, the only series the Tigers have won since the 1st week of August have been 2 gainst the White Sox, and we all know how they tanked.

I think the resurgence can be more attributed to the schedule makers.

[DarkReign]

3 RBI's yesterday....in a 4-3 win against TO

[T Park]

I always liked Polanco when he was on the Cardinals.

Hes obviously not Scott Rolen, but I wish the Cards could've done something this offseason to get him to play him at second, cause his solid hitting at the top of the lineup, and good D, would've changed alot of things this season.

The Cardinals loss, is the huge gain of the future, IMO World Series champs of 2006.

[MajorMike]

3 RBI's yesterday....in a 4-3 win against TO
0-1 in a PH in a 8-6 loss.

[Marklar MM]

I wonder what it would be like if Polanco batted after players who don't strike out all the time.

[MajorMike]

I wonder what it would be like if Polanco batted after players who don't strike out all the time.

But... having him in the lineup makes everyone better, or at least that's what you told me.

...and he's (or was before he was hurt) your leadoff hitter...

[Marklar MM]

But... having him in the lineup makes everyone better, or at least that's what you told me.

...and he's (or was before he was hurt) your leadoff hitter...

He was our #2 hitter. Granderson was leadoff. So in effect, he is batting after a leadoff hitter who strikes out all the time, the 9 hitter who strikes out all the time, and the 8 hitter who strikes out all the time. Our leadoff hitter is 3rd in the league in strikeouts. Inge is 25th.

[jochhejaam]

0-1 in a PH in a 8-6 loss.
Thanks for pointing that out Capt. I now agree with you that he's not worth what he's getting paid. :rolleyes :lol

[MajorMike]

0-5 with 2 left on in a loss.

[Burn531]

Tigers win tonight and they win the Central title. :smokin

[Marklar MM]

I think we gon lose. 7-0 KC after the top of the 1st FUCKING inning.

[jochhejaam]

I think we gon lose. 7-0 KC after the top of the 1st FUCKING inning.
Coming back, 7-4 after 3.

[Burn531]

:madrun :pctoss :shootme :bang :cuss

Everything has to be done the hard way.

[MajorMike]

Good thing Pal came back; he's making the whole team better. Altho it is interesting his last 11 games played they are 3-8.

[jochhejaam]

Good thing Pal came back; he's making the whole team better. Altho it is interesting his last 11 games played they are 3-8.
The bigger picture Captain;

72-37 with Polanco

23-29 without Polanco

Tigers are averaging 7 runs per game in the 6 games he's played in since his return.
Opponents are averaging 6.6 since he's been back and the Tigers are 2-4 during those 6 games, but he really doesn't have anything with the pitching now, does he?

If you want to look at small pictures though, I'll give you a good one. Polanco's driven in 8 runs in the 6 games since coming back.
(Over the course of an entire season that would equate to 216 RBI's. :lol )

Snapshots are misleading, wouldn't you agree?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Go American League (except the Yankees).

[Burn531]

Tigers win tonight and they win the Central title. :smokin

Let's try that again. :fro

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What's the division-winning scenario?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Nevermind.



AL CENTRAL
Detroit and Minnesota are both in the postseason, but like the Dodgers and Padres, are awaiting the specifics.

If the Tigers and Twins stay tied after Sunday's games, a head-to-head record tie-breaker would give the Tigers the division title.

[MajorMike]

1-6 with no RBIs in a 12 inning loss. Pay him more.

[FromWayDowntown]

Polanco is 13-27 with an OPS of better than 1.000 and 4 RBI through 6+ playoff games.

pfft. Dude is seriously overpaid.

[T Park]

Wish the Cards would've pulled the trigger on that deal with Philly to bring back Polanco :depressed

[DarkReign]

I think if anyone has watched the playoffs, can now properly determine, he deserves every last cent of his contract.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think if anyone has watched the playoffs, can now properly determine, he deserves every last cent of his contract.

I agree.

I thought that reviving this thread was useful to demonstrating that fact to those who thought differently.

[T Park]

Ive always liked Polanco, one of the more underrated players in baseball.

[FromWayDowntown]

Funny how CaptMike has been so diligent in documenting Polanco's bad games, but hasn't posted anything since the postseason started.

[FreshPrince22]

who da fuck

You know who he is now?!? :devil I'd say he has officially owned the team you're sporting in your avatar.

[Burn531]

Tigers' red-hot Polanco (9-for-17) selected ALCS MVP

DETROIT -- Placido Polanco separated his left shoulder two months ago and was worried his season was over. He not only made it back, he helped put the Detroit Tigers in the World Series for the first time since 1984 and won the American League Championship Series MVP award.


Polanco had three hits, including a ninth-inning single two pitches ahead of Magglio Ordonez's pennant-winning homer that gave Detroit a 6-3 win over the Oakland Athletics on Saturday and a four-game sweep.

Polanco was selected MVP after hitting .529 (9-for-17) in the four games and extending his postseason hitting streak to nine games -- dating back to 2001 with St. Louis.

On a team full of free swingers, the contact-hitting Polanco was a perfect fit in his second season with the Tigers.

He hit .295 during the regular season, including .396 with runners in scoring position. His importance to the Tigers was magnified by his absence.

Polanco separated his left shoulder on Aug. 15 at Boston while making a tumbling catch in the outfield, and Detroit skidded down the stretch in his absence. He returned Sept. 22 -- shortly after saying he was out for the year -- and helped the Tigers finish well enough to secure a spot in the playoffs for the first time since 1987.

[Marklar MM]

CPTMike...is he still not worth the money.

[MajorMike]

Right up there with former LCS MVPs Craig Counsell, Eddie Perez, Sterling Hitchcock, Steve Avery, Marty Barrett, Burt Hooton, etc etc etc.

[T Park]

Ohc omeon Mike

The guy was a stud with the Cardinals.

Quit the petty BS.


BTW, congrats to the Mets for beating the shit out of the Cards tonight, hopefully the Cardinals can recover tommarow, err tuesday.

Game tommarow doesn't look like its gonna be played.

[Burn531]

Game tommarow doesn't look like its gonna be played.

A lot of rain coming?

[jochhejaam]

Right up there with former LCS MVPs Craig Counsell, Eddie Perez, Sterling Hitchcock, Steve Avery, Marty Barrett, Burt Hooton, etc etc etc.
Good point Mike. (ignorance is bliss)

[MajorMike]

Clap clap clap clap. Good work, Pal.

[jochhejaam]

Clap clap clap clap. Good work, Pal.

Reviving the Polanco thread for CaptMike.

Tigers and Braves are playing on ESPN and it was pointed out that Polanco is batting .355 with 2 strikes on him this year, best in the majors.


6th in AL Batting Average - .337

5th in AL Hits with 95 (218 hits pace)

1st in strikeouts per at bat ratio with only 14 in 282 at bats (no one's close to him).

:toast

[DarkReign]

He's my Tiger.

Nice revive.

[MajorMike]

Reviving the Polanco thread for CaptMike.

Tigers and Braves are playing on ESPN and it was pointed out that Polanco is batting .355 with 2 strikes on him this year, best in the majors.


6th in AL Batting Average - .337

5th in AL Hits with 95 (218 hits pace)

1st in strikeouts per at bat ratio with only 14 in 282 at bats (no one's close to him).

:toast


Sort of A Rod Lite? Awesome regular season stats, yet melts in the big series? I'm sure he's really enjoying that ALCS MVP. Sort of like Nowinski really enjoyed his MVP this year or WCF MVP last year.

[Marklar MM]

Ya...he sure melted away with an injured shoulder. He couldn't get around on the inside fastball, and that is all he got.

[DarkReign]

Sort of A Rod Lite? Awesome regular season stats, yet melts in the big series? I'm sure he's really enjoying that ALCS MVP. Sort of like Nowinski really enjoyed his MVP this year or WCF MVP last year.

All I got out of that was "I was wrong, and I will never admit it!"

[MajorMike]

No Gold Gloves. No Silver Sluggers. No Championship Rings. No All Stars. Yet he is making more than 9 2B'rs that have those. He doesn't come close to HOF. Anyone can get stats. Right now, Pal is just another Albert Belle or Troy Glaus or Edgar Renteria.

[BeerIsGood!]

To change the subject - what is that giant lump on the right side of his head from? Did he get beaned?

[Thunder Dan]

No Gold Gloves. No Silver Sluggers. No Championship Rings. No All Stars. Yet he is making more than 9 2B'rs that have those. He doesn't come close to HOF. Anyone can get stats. Right now, Pal is just another Albert Belle or Troy Glaus or Edgar Renteria.
except those 3 you named have all been all-stars and have won silver sluggers, so it kind of negates your whole theory.

Renteria 5X All-Star
Belle 5x All-Star, 5x Silver Slugger Team
Troy Glaus 4x All Star, and won the Silver Slugger 2x in 2000 and 2001

[jochhejaam]

No Gold Gloves. No Silver Sluggers. No Championship Rings. No All Stars . Yet he is making more than 9 2B'rs that have those. He doesn't come close to HOF. Anyone can get stats. Right now, Pal is just another Albert Belle or Troy Glaus or Edgar Renteria.

AL All-Star Voting
There is also a close contest at second base -- where Detroit's Placido Polanco... leads the New York Yankees' Robinson Cano 1,269,717 votes to 965,712





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2917221

[jochhejaam]

Interesting... you wont argue based on fantasy, but you will argue based on production, All Star appearances, and like players even when you have nothing to support your claims.

He's some more stats.
He is 8th among 2B in average.
18th in runs scored.
20th in OBP.


And here are this years stats for Polanco.

1st among 2B in average.
3rd in runs scored.
4th in OBP.

[Thunder Dan]

The all star voting is usually the Red Sox/Yanks roster with Ichiro playing in the outfield and pudge catching

[jochhejaam]

The all star voting is usually the Red Sox/Yanks roster with Ichiro playing in the outfield and pudge catching
Yeah, they usually dominate the All-Star team.
So far this year the Tigers have 3 that would be starters, Pudge, Polanco and Ordonez.

And with Leyland managing the team this year, and picking the reserves, you can probably count on Sheffield being there (his stats merit a spot anyways), and if he wants to be greedy (Leyland's not the type) he might even add Guillen.

Tiger Pitchers?
Verlander and possibly Bonderman.

[Thunder Dan]

Yeah, they usually dominate the All-Star team.
So far this year the Tigers have 3 that would be starters, Pudge, Polanco and Ordonez.

And with Leyland managing the team this year, and picking the reserves, you can probably count on Sheffield being there (his stats merit a spot anyways), and if he wants to be greedy (Leyland's not the type) he might even add Guillen.

Tiger Pitchers?
Verlander and possibly Bonderman.

Mags and Palonco I agree with, but I don't think Pudge deserves the All-Star team spot over Victor Martinez and Jorge Posada who are batting .313 and .339 respectively. Pudge will make it by fan votes, but should not be chosen by Leyland. But I'm sure it will be Victor Martinez left off the roster, but look at these stats:

V. Matrinez .313 16-doubles 14-HR 62-RBIs .377-OBP
I.Rodriquez .285 19-doubles 7-HR 42-rbi .298-OPS

I think Verlander will be on the team, but not Bonderman, only becuase there are so many pitchers having good years this year. Bonderman has the wins, but he has given up his fare share of runs in his last 3 outings. My pitchers (I think they choose 6-7 starters)

Haren
Beckett
Sabathia
Verlander
Lackey

and the final spot SHOULD go to one of these:
Bonderman 8-1 3.90 ERA
Carmona 8-3 3.21 ERA
Escobar 9-3 2.81 ERA

These 3 will have atleast 2 more starts to either better or kill themselves. But the final spot WILL go to one off these: (only becuase of a player votings)
-Diasuke
-Halladay
-Santana


Remember too that pitchers are usually thrown in from teams without All-Star everyday players like the Royals and Nationals.

[DarkReign]

I am actually a little embarassed that Pudge is starting over VMart.

I know CF in the AL is a logjam of talent, but Curtis Granderson deserved the nomination at least.

[K-State Spur]

AL All-Star Voting
There is also a close contest at second base -- where Detroit's Placido Polanco... leads the New York Yankees' Robinson Cano 1,269,717 votes to 965,712





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2917221


Which is pretty ridiculous. Brian Roberts is having a much better year than either of them.