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lebomb
08-21-2006, 09:53 AM
Is there anyone who is close to this guy in golf???? :worthy:

tlongII
08-21-2006, 10:29 AM
No. He is the greatest golfer of ALL TIME. He might just be the greatest athlete of all time as well.

degenerate_gambler
08-21-2006, 10:40 AM
No. He is the greatest golfer of ALL TIME. He might just be the greatest athlete of all time as well.


You can certainly make a case for greatest golfer of all time even right now. And at the rate he's going he will go down as just that. But until he reaches 19 majors, Jack is still The Man.

And dude, your last sentence...c'mon. He deserves his props but dont get carried away.

tlongII
08-21-2006, 10:54 AM
You can certainly make a case for greatest golfer of all time even right now. And at the rate he's going he will go down as just that. But until he reaches 19 majors, Jack is still The Man.

And dude, your last sentence...c'mon. He deserves his props but dont get carried away.

Tiger is better than Jack. That cannot be debated. He owns the scoring record in relation to par in all 4 majors! He has won 4 of the last 8 majors. He just absolutely dominates the game.

He is arguably the greatest athlete of all time as well. I don't think any other athlete dominates his competition the way Tiger does.

leemajors
08-21-2006, 11:21 AM
Tiger is better than Jack. That cannot be debated. He owns the scoring record in relation to par in all 4 majors! He has won 4 of the last 8 majors. He just absolutely dominates the game.

He is arguably the greatest athlete of all time as well. I don't think any other athlete dominates his competition the way Tiger does.

even tiger says he is still looking up at jack. i think that leaves plenty of room for debate. scoring records are completely relative for golf, modern equipment has made consistently lower scoring more feasible.

tlongII
08-21-2006, 11:33 AM
even tiger says he is still looking up at jack. i think that leaves plenty of room for debate. scoring records are completely relative for golf, modern equipment has made consistently lower scoring more feasible.

You're right, it can be debated. There is no question in my mind though. Modern equipment is better, but they have also made the golf courses much tougher.

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 12:39 PM
Tiger is better than Jack. That cannot be debated. He owns the scoring record in relation to par in all 4 majors! He has won 4 of the last 8 majors. He just absolutely dominates the game.

He is arguably the greatest athlete of all time as well. I don't think any other athlete dominates his competition the way Tiger does.


Athleticism required for golf??? since when?

Tiger has mad skill. He's an amazing golfer. But athlete? Maybe our definitions of an athlete are radically different.

Lance Armstrong an athlete --- yes
Michael Vick an athlete --- yes
Lebron James an athlete --- yes
Ronaldinho an athlete --- yes
Tiger Woods an athlete --- yes, but even some of the least athletic players from other sports are more athletic than him.

leemajors
08-21-2006, 12:46 PM
Athleticism required for golf??? since when?

Tiger has mad skill. He's an amazing golfer. But athlete? Maybe our definitions of an athlete are radically different.

Lance Armstrong an athlete --- yes
Michael Vick an athlete --- yes
Lebron James an athlete --- yes
Ronaldinho an athlete --- yes
Tiger Woods an athlete --- yes, but even some of the least athletic players from other sports are more athletic than him.

walk 18 carrying your own clubs in 100 degree weather and then think about it more. golf requires incredible hand eye coordination and strength to be played at a high level, as well as a considerable amount of mental toughness. i remember the first tournament i played in as a varsity team member in high school, and even with 20 people watching it was incredibly nerve wracking.

leemajors
08-21-2006, 12:48 PM
You're right, it can be debated. There is no question in my mind though. Modern equipment is better, but they have also made the golf courses much tougher.

i have also come to the conclusion that tiger could well win 30 majors if he never pulled the driver out of the bag. don't know what happened there, it used to be so reliable for him. possibly bad equipment? (i remember you work for nike btw)

LEONARD
08-21-2006, 12:49 PM
Thru 40 majors...

Jack - 30 over
Tiger - 120 UNDER

tlongII
08-21-2006, 01:30 PM
i have also come to the conclusion that tiger could well win 30 majors if he never pulled the driver out of the bag. don't know what happened there, it used to be so reliable for him. possibly bad equipment? (i remember you work for nike btw)

Hey! The equipment is great! LOL! Actually he hit his driver very well at the PGA. He just didn't use it much on Sunday since he got the lead on #1.

MaNuMaNiAc
08-21-2006, 01:48 PM
walk 18 carrying your own clubs in 100 degree weather and then think about it more. golf requires incredible hand eye coordination and strength to be played at a high level, as well as a considerable amount of mental toughness. i remember the first tournament i played in as a varsity team member in high school, and even with 20 people watching it was incredibly nerve wracking.
I've done it and you're incredibly overreacting. The nerve wracking part I don't doubt, but a lot of things are nerve wracking and not athletic. Golf is not an athletic sport man, and to say Tiger is the best athlete there ever was is doing a disservice to a lot of other REAL athletes that actually qualify for that title.

MaNuMaNiAc
08-21-2006, 01:52 PM
Best golfer I don't doubt, the man is insane! but greatest athlete?? no, I don't think so

tlongII
08-21-2006, 03:33 PM
Best golfer I don't doubt, the man is insane! but greatest athlete?? no, I don't think so

Sorry, but I think he definitely qualifies to be in the conversation of greatest athlete. Just because his sport does not typically contain the best athletes is no reason to denigrate him. I doubt you'll find an athlete in any other sport that is in better condition than Tiger. He is a work-out freak!

leemajors
08-21-2006, 04:49 PM
I've done it and you're incredibly overreacting. The nerve wracking part I don't doubt, but a lot of things are nerve wracking and not athletic. Golf is not an athletic sport man, and to say Tiger is the best athlete there ever was is doing a disservice to a lot of other REAL athletes that actually qualify for that title.

ok, well i can kinda understand that. i think it's ridiculous to basically say golf takes no more effort than, say, poker which a lot of people consider a sport. there is a considerable amount of conditioning involved to not only play 18 holes of golf, but also to spend hours hitting range balls every day. hell even nick faldo back in the 80/90s was tested and was in better shape physically than greg lemond at the same time. i am not saying tiger is the best athlete ever, i am just refuting the fact that people think it takes little physical acumen to play it. there's a huge difference between walking the nearly 5 miles total most golf courses are than riding a cart around.

TheSanityAnnex
08-21-2006, 05:19 PM
Its tough to argue about golf with the average viewer/non player.


Golfers these days all do strength and flexibility training, the same as every other sport. Some golfers, such as Tiger, are most definitely athletes. That can't be argued. Anyone ever seen Camillo Viegas? The dude is fucking ripped. He weighs 150 pounds, is pure muscle, and is one of the longest hitting players on tour, and you are telling me he is not an athlete?

Bruno
08-21-2006, 05:20 PM
Tiger is the best actual golfer by far, when he plays at 100%, nobody can beat him.

Youu can't say if he is the best golfer of all time or if he is the best athlete is difficult to say : you can't compare apples with oranges.

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 06:11 PM
walk 18 carrying your own clubs in 100 degree weather and then think about it more. golf requires incredible hand eye coordination and strength to be played at a high level, as well as a considerable amount of mental toughness. i remember the first tournament i played in as a varsity team member in high school, and even with 20 people watching it was incredibly nerve wracking.


Read the list again....

I said Tiger is an athlete. But to claim he is the world's greatest athlete would be dead wrong. All the other people on that short list are more athletic than Tiger.

The confusion may lie with the definition. But understand that I am in no way 'dissing Tiger. Again, the man has mad skill.

BTW Poker isn't a sport. It's a game.

BTW2 When was the last time Tiger carried his equipment for a full 18? Doesn't he have a caddy conjoined to his hip?

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 06:12 PM
Its tough to argue about golf with the average viewer/non player.


Golfers these days all do strength and flexibility training, the same as every other sport. Some golfers, such as Tiger, are most definitely athletes. That can't be argued. Anyone ever seen Camillo Viegas? The dude is fucking ripped. He weighs 150 pounds, is pure muscle, and is one of the longest hitting players on tour, and you are telling me he is not an athlete?

But we are not talking about Camillo Viegas. We are talking about Tiger Woods.

tlongII
08-21-2006, 06:29 PM
Read the list again....

I said Tiger is an athlete. But to claim he is the world's greatest athlete would be dead wrong. All the other people on that short list are more athletic than Tiger.

The confusion may lie with the definition. But understand that I am in no way 'dissing Tiger. Again, the man has mad skill.

BTW Poker isn't a sport. It's a game.

BTW2 When was the last time Tiger carried his equipment for a full 18? Doesn't he have a caddy conjoined to his hip?

Why do you say the other people on that short list are more athletic than Tiger? What is the basis for your conclusion?

Spurologist
08-21-2006, 07:16 PM
Golf Is Not A Sport. It Is A Skill

TheSanityAnnex
08-21-2006, 07:24 PM
But we are not talking about Camillo Viegas. We are talking about Tiger Woods.

I was using him as an example of another athletic golfer.





Main Entry: ath·lete
Pronunciation: 'ath-"lEt, ÷'a-th&-"lEt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin athleta, from Greek athlEtEs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina


Hmmm....................Tiger seems to be skilled and trained in his sport, yet he's not considered and athlete by some?

TheSanityAnnex
08-21-2006, 07:24 PM
Golf Is Not A Sport. It Is A Skill
What is your definition of sport?

leemajors
08-21-2006, 07:59 PM
Golf Is Not A Sport. It Is A Skill

having a good short game is a skill. could you be any more wrong?

1Parker1
08-21-2006, 09:03 PM
Tiger is a sick dude...he's just on a role right now. Also, he doesn't seem to have as much competition, most of the other players around him don't even come close to him in talent.

As for the greatest athlete...I think he probably deserves to be in the Top 5, not sure who #1 would be. However, for those of you who argue that golf does not require "athleticism," ya'll need to try playing it once....and I don't mean miniture golfing either. Golf requires a TON of strength, stamina, and mental toughness....just because the athletism isn't displayed like with football, basketball, etc. doesn't mean it isn't there.

Oh, and by the way...I'd put Lance Armstrong ahead of Tiger in the greatest athlete of all time...7 Tour wins....talk about a grueling sport/competition.

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 09:54 PM
Golf fails one requisite in that definition... stamina.

I just don't see the grueling endurance... where is it? Especially when it's the caddy doing all the heavy lifting...

Try playing 90+ minutes of soccer...
or 48+ minutes of basketball...
or running at full sprint and making a dive to catch a fly ball...
or scrambling around while taking punishing hits to make a 40-yd throw...
or volleyball
or boxing
or cycling
or swimming or diving for that matter.... or gymnastics.

Those are all sports that take their toll on the body.... requiring elements of agility, strength, finesse, endurance-stamina as well as skill. Shoot, even ultimate frisbee has more athletic requirements than golf.

The only physical strain golf produces results from improper technique (or if someone hits you with a ball, or the club :lol )... but pro-golfers have their swings stuck on muscle memory. True, they require extensive and very specific flexibility in order to play... but that is a different premise altogether. The game of golf is a game of skill (a facet that encompasses concentration and perfected repeatability of motion) but it is not a game of athleticism...

Having said that though.... Tiger is the Man!!!

TheSanityAnnex
08-21-2006, 10:46 PM
Golf fails one requisite in that definition... stamina.

I just don't see the grueling endurance... where is it? Especially when it's the caddy doing all the heavy lifting...

Try playing 90+ minutes of soccer...
or 48+ minutes of basketball...
or running at full sprint and making a dive to catch a fly ball...
or scrambling around while taking punishing hits to make a 40-yd throw...
or volleyball
or boxing
or cycling
or swimming or diving for that matter.... or gymnastics.

Those are all sports that take their toll on the body.... requiring elements of agility, strength, finesse, endurance-stamina as well as skill. Shoot, even ultimate frisbee has more athletic requirements than golf.

The only physical strain golf produces results from improper technique (or if someone hits you with a ball, or the club :lol )... but pro-golfers have their swings stuck on muscle memory. True, they require extensive and very specific flexibility in order to play... but that is a different premise altogether. The game of golf is a game of skill (a facet that encompasses concentration and perfected repeatability of motion) but it is not a game of athleticism...

Having said that though.... Tiger is the Man!!!I played 2 years of college golf. Try walking 36 holes (roughly 10 miles) carrying your own bag in 105 degree weather. Tell me that doesn't take stamina.

ducks
08-21-2006, 10:50 PM
has anyone actually played golf without drinking beer when playing?

try walking one of the courses tiger plays most would die

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 11:40 PM
I played 2 years of college golf. Try walking 36 holes (roughly 10 miles) carrying your own bag in 105 degree weather. Tell me that doesn't take stamina.

When was the last time Tiger had to endure those troubles to earn 'the world's best athlete title'.

Again, he has a caddy.

I'm not dissing the game. I love playing golf.

TheSanityAnnex
08-21-2006, 11:46 PM
When was the last time Tiger had to endure those troubles to earn 'the world's best athlete title'.

Again, he has a caddy.

I'm not dissing the game. I love playing golf.Tiger could do it easily. Thats not even up for debate. Point being, golf at higher levels requires more athleticism and stamina.

You nor I have called him the world's best athlete. Do you at least agree his is a phenomenal athlete?

Phenomanul
08-21-2006, 11:51 PM
Tiger could do it easily. Thats not even up for debate. Point being, golf at higher levels requires more athleticism and stamina.

You nor I have called him the world's best athlete. Do you at least agree his is a phenomenal athlete?


He is an athlete period. Phenomenal athlete would be someone like Lance Armstrong or Shawn Marion.

romsho
08-22-2006, 07:30 AM
Golf is a sport. Tiger is an athlete. Best athlete ever? Hardly- and golf certainly is not the sport where the world's best athlete will ever be found at any point in time. I think it is safe to say, however, that Tiger is the most dominant athlete in any sport now and perhaps of all time. The level of success he has achieved against his fellow competition now and throughout his career is unprecedented. No one owns their respective sports the way Tiger owns golf.

Phenomanul
08-22-2006, 07:51 AM
Golf is a sport. Tiger is an athlete. Best athlete ever? Hardly- and golf certainly is not the sport where the world's best athlete will ever be found at any point in time. I think it is safe to say, however, that Tiger is the most dominant athlete in any sport now and perhaps of all time. The level of success he has achieved against his fellow competition now and throughout his career is unprecedented. No one owns their respective sports the way Tiger owns golf.


This is a fairer assessment. Though I would probably add Lance Armstrong to that distinction.

1Parker1
08-22-2006, 10:20 AM
He is an athlete period. Phenomenal athlete would be someone like Lance Armstrong or Shawn Marion.

:lmao Did he just put Shawn Marion in the same category as Lance Armstrong?? You seriously couldn't think of another athlete?

Phenomanul
08-22-2006, 10:29 AM
:lmao Did he just put Shawn Marion in the same category as Lance Armstrong?? You seriously couldn't think of another athlete?


They don't call him 'The Matrix' for nothing you know.

He's not on the same dominating plane as Tiger or Lance (with reference to sports domination), but he is a super-athlete nonetheless.

leemajors
08-22-2006, 10:43 AM
When was the last time Tiger had to endure those troubles to earn 'the world's best athlete title'.

Again, he has a caddy.

I'm not dissing the game. I love playing golf.

personally, i think they should take the PGA back to what it used to be. 18 on friday and saturday, 36 hole finale on sunday - all match play. hogan never played in it after a while because his leg couldn't hold up to that after his accident. he probably would have won more than the triple crown in '53 i think it was. one of the few times he went to the british open and took it easily. if that dude had never been hurt he would have put up some ridiculous career nums. perfect swing.

2centsworth
08-22-2006, 11:12 AM
As soon as tiger does a 360 jam or runs the 100 in under 10 seconds I'll call him one of the greatest athletes. However, the guy is a freak of nature on the golf course.

tlongII
08-22-2006, 11:21 AM
As soon as tiger does a 360 jam or runs the 100 in under 10 seconds I'll call him one of the greatest athletes. However, the guy is a freak of nature on the golf course.


Those guys that do 360 jams or run the 100 in under 10 seconds can't drive the golf ball 350 yards! Tiger is an unbelievable athlete! I think he's more dominant than Lance Armstrong. I have not heard of Lance winning any events besides the Tour de France.

MaNuMaNiAc
08-22-2006, 11:22 AM
Those guys that do 360 jams or run the 100 in under 10 seconds can't drive the golf ball 350 yards! Tiger is an unbelievable athlete! I think he's more dominant than Lance Armstrong. I have not heard of Lance winning any events besides the Tour de France.
thats because they don't have the technique, not because of athletism

tlongII
08-22-2006, 12:28 PM
thats because they don't have the technique, not because of athletism


Running the 100 in under 10 seconds and doing 360 jams require technique as well as athleticism. Just like hitting a golf ball 350 yards down the middle of a fairway.

MaNuMaNiAc
08-22-2006, 12:45 PM
Running the 100 in under 10 seconds and doing 360 jams require technique as well as athleticism. Just like hitting a golf ball 350 yards down the middle of a fairway.
you're going to tell me it takes the same amount of athletism to hit a glof ball as does running the 100 in under 10 seconds??

Phenomanul
08-22-2006, 12:55 PM
Those guys that do 360 jams or run the 100 in under 10 seconds can't drive the golf ball 350 yards! Tiger is an unbelievable athlete! I think he's more dominant than Lance Armstrong. I have not heard of Lance winning any events besides the Tour de France.


In the world of cylcling that is the 'big one'. --- The Championship.


BTW I can't drive a ball 250 yards consistently, much less 350.... but I know a few 12 year olds that can (250). Having said that, I don't believe any of them could play back-to-back soccer games in 90+ degree heat without collapsing - something I can do.

Nor are they more athletic simply because they can drive a ball further. Most of that is in the technique and in the perfected motion that allows them to hit the ball with the club's sweet-spot. I can do that on a fluke. You can't 'obtain' endurance on a fluke.

tlongII
08-22-2006, 03:24 PM
you're going to tell me it takes the same amount of athletism to hit a glof ball as does running the 100 in under 10 seconds??

I'm going to tell you that Tiger has as much athleticism as anybody that runs the 100 in under 10 seconds. No question about it.

tlongII
08-22-2006, 03:26 PM
In the world of cylcling that is the 'big one'. --- The Championship.


BTW I can't drive a ball 250 yards consistently, much less 350.... but I know a few 12 year olds that can (250). Having said that, I don't believe any of them could play back-to-back soccer games in 90+ degree heat without collapsing - something I can do.

Nor are they more athletic simply because they can drive a ball further. Most of that is in the technique and in the perfected motion that allows them to hit the ball with the club's sweet-spot. I can do that on a fluke. You can't 'obtain' endurance on a fluke.


The reason Tiger is so good when leading in the 4th round of Majors can be attributed to his supreme endurance. He just doesn't tire like most other golfers because of his superior conditioning. He is a great athlete.

MaNuMaNiAc
08-22-2006, 03:36 PM
I'm going to tell you that Tiger has as much athleticism as anybody that runs the 100 in under 10 seconds. No question about it.
... we'll I guess we'll have to disagree on that one

tlongII
08-22-2006, 04:05 PM
... we'll I guess we'll have to disagree on that one

I remember Earl Woods once said that Tiger could have been a great Track and Field athlete had he chose that to be his primary sport.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz
08-22-2006, 09:06 PM
I remember Earl Woods once said that Tiger could have been a great Track and Field athlete had he chose that to be his primary sport.
Tiger has the mind and work ethic to excel in many sports if he had chosen a different path.

Tiger is a work-out freak as well.

Also not only is it Tiger's endurance that helps him as a finisher, but he's pretty up there in clutchness, if not THE Most clutch. He's so far 100 percent while holding the lead going into the last round.

As a competitive "athlete", he's the best no question. Greatest Athleticism, which is what you guys are arguing, is a whole other story. I bet the most athletic person is some lesser known. Go to the track stars if you want to argue that.

2centsworth
08-22-2006, 11:28 PM
I'm going to tell you that Tiger has as much athleticism as anybody that runs the 100 in under 10 seconds. No question about it.
I guy like Herschal Walker could run, dunk, and hit a golf ball 350 with training.

Billy Cobham
08-27-2006, 07:13 PM
Tiger with another display of why he is perhaps the most dominant athlete in any sport of our time.