Dirk or KG?

[thepeopleslawyer]

who is better? who would you rather have on your team? I used to have them pretty even, and considered both very good players, but perinial losers. now that at least Dirk has reached the finals (though he had a better supporting cast) I wanted to ask who most people would prefer.

[mavsfan1000]

Dirk is the better player since he can take over a game. KG can't do as much with a ball as Dirk. He relies more on garbage points and doesn't have the range as Dirk has either. KG relied on Cassell to do a lot of the scoring.

[cheguevara]

None. We already have Duncan.

KG probably still has bigger trade value so I'd get him and trade his ass for 2 solid stars next to Duncan.

[stretch]

KG has the more well rounded overall game, but Dirk is much more dangerous and gifted, and his abilities causes more problems for opposing defenses than KG can.

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk is a better offensive player, KG is better overall. KG is underrated because of the fact that he is a perennial loser.......which is mostly not his fault. The only thing i don't like about KG is that he sometimes disappears in crunch time.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Sorry I vote for KG... he can dominate a game in every way possible..Dirk can go off for 50 but he could also give up 50 in the same night..

[Bruno]

Easily KG, he is way better defender and rebounder, Dirk's offense is slighty better but it's not enough to offset the rest.

[Fillmoe]

i hate germans.... KG ALL DAM DAY!

[v2freak]

KG. Although they're both whiners, I'd say KG is a little more versatile and a better defensive player.

[atxrocker]

kg. dirk has zero heart. i dig kg's passion and intensity.

[Amarelooms]

Dirk has zero heart? lol ok homer. KG is a loser...dude has never won and never will. Dirk did lead his team to the finals something KG will never accomplish.

[shaggy17]

Dirk>>>>KG. Dirk has been out of round 1 many times even reached the finals. Even though this is not saying much Dirk is a clutcher player then KG is and keeps on leading his team to the playoffs while KG keeps hitting the Lottery.

[gtownspur]

Dirk has zero heart? lol ok homer. KG is a loser...dude has never won and never will. Dirk did lead his team to the finals something KG will never accomplish.

Well. Dirk has never won, and never will.

[atxrocker]

Dirk has zero heart? lol ok homer. KG is a loser...dude has never won and never will. Dirk did lead his team to the finals something KG will never accomplish.


lmfao...how the fuck you figure i'm a homer if i'm a kings fan? it's not like i said i would take miller over them (though i would take a healthy webber over them anyday) kg hasn't had a stellar cast around him since cassell and spree left. dirk had j.ho, terry and stackhouse to help get them to the finals. and yeah, dirk does have zero heart. you're the fucking homer if you don't see it, dude is a perinnial loser and choker. i doubt dallas sees the finals again and the one shot they had their "superstar" dirk watched slip away while having a 2-0 lead in a favored series. he just don't have what it takes to take the final leap, and i would not be surprised if he never gets past the western conference finals again.

[atxrocker]

Dirk>>>>KG. Dirk has been out of round 1 many times even reached the finals. Even though this is not saying much Dirk is a clutcher player then KG is and keeps on leading his team to the playoffs while KG keeps hitting the Lottery.


you're right, dirk has reached the finals. it should be noted that they got there by going through an amare-less suns in the process. regardless, its no secret that dirk had better teammates while kg had a buncha scrubs. and i disagree about dirk being more clutch, i recall more than a fair share of situations where dirk had no answer in clutch time.

[Amarelooms]

Ok dude keep talking nonsense and making excuses. Dirk was clutch through most of the playoffs. We'll have to see how the all mighty KG does this year...I;ve got money on another season missing the playoffs and disappearing in the clutch like normal. Btw there's no bigger group of chokers than Webber, Bibby en company. No wonder Shaq calls em the Sacramento Queens lol.

[atxrocker]

^^yeah, good point. i didn't hear much about us being called queens last season when we had artest and bonzi. but, it doesn't matter. the past is the past, so i'm moving forward. dirk is a very good player, but I would prefer KG over him anyday.

[dirk4mvp]

you're right, dirk has reached the finals. it should be noted that they got there by going through an amare-less suns in the process. regardless, its no secret that dirk had better teammates while kg had a buncha scrubs. and i disagree about dirk being more clutch, i recall more than a fair share of situations where dirk had no answer in clutch time.

Yet the Mavs beat a spur team the Kings failed to beat. And Dirk did kinda hit the series ending shot against the Grizzlies in Game 3 (I was at that game :elephant )

[atxrocker]

Yet the Mavs beat a spur team the Kings failed to beat. And Dirk did kinda hit the series ending shot against the Grizzlies (I was at that game :elephant )


lol...you're talking about the same grizz winnless in the playoffs? thats hardly a clutch time situation. it was that sweep that allowed them to have a strong showing against the spurs, who were tired from playing the kings. that "winning shot" doesn't make dirk clutch.

[dirk4mvp]

lol...you're talking about the same grizz winnless in the playoffs? thats hardly a clutch time situation. it was that sweep that allowed them to have a strong showing against the spurs, who were tired from playing the kings. that "winning shot" doesn't make dirk clutch.

The grizz this last year and the grizz the 2 earlier years are two fucking different teams. It's not their fault they ran into the wrong team. :elephant

And how come it doesn't make it a clutch shot? Was he supposed to do a windmill from the freethrow line for the game winning shot?

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk>>>>KG. Dirk has been out of round 1 many times even reached the finals. Even though this is not saying much Dirk is a clutcher player then KG is and keeps on leading his team to the playoffs while KG keeps hitting the Lottery.

Clutcher? :wtf

[mavs>spurs2]

lmfao...how the fuck you figure i'm a homer if i'm a kings fan? it's not like i said i would take miller over them (though i would take a healthy webber over them anyday) kg hasn't had a stellar cast around him since cassell and spree left. dirk had j.ho, terry and stackhouse to help get them to the finals. and yeah, dirk does have zero heart. you're the fucking homer if you don't see it, dude is a perinnial loser and choker. i doubt dallas sees the finals again and the one shot they had their "superstar" dirk watched slip away while having a 2-0 lead in a favored series. he just don't have what it takes to take the final leap, and i would not be surprised if he never gets past the western conference finals again.

Let's not get too carried away. I'll agree that Dirk isn't the most clutch player in the league. But to say Dirk is a perinnial loser and that the mavs will never see the finals again? The mavs are a deep, talented team and let's not forget Dirk has had his games where he hit big shots and led his team to victory. The mavs have just as good a chance as anyone to be back in the finals next season. Not to take anything away from kingfan, the Kings with Artest will also be a team to watch out for next year.

[atxrocker]

Let's not get too carried away. I'll agree that Dirk isn't the most clutch player in the league. But to say Dirk is a perinnial loser and that the mavs will never see the finals again? The mavs are a deep, talented team and let's not forget Dirk has had his games where he hit big shots and led his team to victory. The mavs have just as good a chance as anyone to be back in the finals next season. Not to take anything away from kingfan, the Kings with Artest will also be a team to watch out for next year.


nice post. i agree that i may have over emphasized my position on dirk being a choker. and i can certainly admit that the mavs are still a very dangerous team (even moreso with the coming development of harris, imo) and it should be interesting to see how things turn out. no doubt they are deep, indeed.

[baseline bum]

KG in a landslide.

[dirk4mvp]

:td

[George Gervin's Afro]

Dirk has zero heart? lol ok homer. KG is a loser...dude has never won and never will. Dirk did lead his team to the finals something KG will never accomplish.


right? so now the definition of success what your 'team' does and not you as an individual? so i guess KG now is responsible for putting his team together ?this is just stupid.

[Nikos]

I give KG the edge because of his defense.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I give KG the edge because of his defense.


Kg could guard all 5 positions on the floor if he had to ... this man is a freak of nature.

now dirk is a dynamite player to say the least but he is not better than KG.

[LEONARD]

Dirk

[monosylab1k]

who is better? who would you rather have on your team? I used to have them pretty even, and considered both very good players, but perinial losers. now that at least Dirk has reached the finals (though he had a better supporting cast) I wanted to ask who most people would prefer.

Give me Dirk. At least he attempts to be a leader and at least he is willing to take the final shot. He may have wilted under pressure before, but at least he realizes that he's got to at least step up and take the shot when his team needs him to.

KG doesn't wilt under pressure because he is never available in a pressure situation to begin with - he would just disappear and let Szcerbiak or Sprewell try to win the game.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Give me Dirk. At least he attempts to be a leader and at least he is willing to take the final shot. He may have wilted under pressure before, but at least he realizes that he's got to at least step up and take the shot when his team needs him to.

KG doesn't wilt under pressure because he is never available in a pressure situation to begin with - he would just disappear and let Szcerbiak or Sprewell try to win the game.


so to use your logic if Tim Duncan defers to parker or Ginobilli at the end of a game or pressure situation then he's not a leader? so if KG is doubled and tripled teamed at the end of a game then he should just jack up a contested shot rather than finding the open guy? Sorry if Timmy D is triple teamed I hope finds an open guy to take the shot..

[monosylab1k]

so to use your logic if Tim Duncan defers to parker or Ginobilli at the end of a game or pressure situation then he's not a leader? so if KG is doubled and tripled teamed at the end of a game then he should just jack up a contested shot rather than finding the open guy? Sorry if Timmy D is triple teamed I hope finds an open guy to take the shot..

not talking about a single isolated, end of the game scenario here...i'm talking about big games and big moments throughout a career.

Duncan has deferred to Parker, Ginobili, Elliot, etc. many times in his career. BUT he's also taken the big shot many times as well. and no matter who's having the big game, there's no doubt as to who the leader is out there when the Spurs are playing.

Dirk has deferred to Terry, Nash, Finley, ect. many times, but he also has taken the big shot and been the leader on the floor.

Seems like every time the T-wolves needed a big play or leadership from Garnett, he disappeared and they were left with Wally Sczerbiak trying to lead them on.

[mabber]

It would be a tough choice for me. I would think that if KG had the same talent around him that Dirk does he'd have gone just as far or farther most years. At the same time, Dirk has improved his game each year and it appears that KG has peaked. I expect Dirk to continue to improve for another couple of years. Going forward...I'd probably take Dirk.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It would be a tough choice for me. I would think that if KG had the same talent around him that Dirk does he'd have gone just as far or farther most years. At the same time, Dirk has improved his game each year and it appears that KG has peaked. I expect Dirk to continue to improve for another couple of years. Going forward...I'd probably take Dirk.


fair assessment.

[exstatic]

The plain fact is, Dirk is a one way player almost to the extent Nash is. Offensively, it's pretty close, but defensively, it's a fucking landslide.

[Leetonidas]

KG by a mile. Dirk is a better offensive player, but KG is much better in every other category. He plays with a ton of intensity and desperately wants to win, has an MVP award, and he plays good defense and rebounds well. Neither of them are clutch so it's a wash, but I'd rather have KG.

[pussyface]

The plain fact is, Dirk is a one way player almost to the extent Nash is. Offensively, it's pretty close, but defensively, it's a fucking landslide.

right...he is a one way player because you said that it is "the plain fact." forget the fact that he is one of the top rebounders in the league, thats not relevent because you have established a "plain fact."

you are an idiot. you dont watch mavericks basketball, except when they play the spurs. you are one of those conventional wisdom regurgitators who kills this board. kill yourself you fucking dork.

also, lets straighten something else out. people call both these guys "losers" and leave it at that. forget what happenened this year with the mavs in the finals, fine. but realize that Dirk has reached the second round of the playoffs or better every year except for one ever since he first led our franchise to the playoffs 6-7 years ago. he has led a 50 win team for the past 6 years; i think san antonio is the only other team to acheive this winning consistincy.

kg, meanwhile, struggles to ever get out of a first round. maybe he is the better player of the two, but Dirk is by far the more accomplished player, and a proven winner who has played with distinguished skill in every playoff with one exception (last yr vs. houston/phx). Based on this one year and in spite of about 5 others, this landed him a "playoff bust" tag in conventional wisdom that had a tenative relationship to reality.

[pussyface]

as a for instance, when dirks team met kg's in the playoffs, kg was swept.

since mavs didnt ultimately win it all that year, revisionist history says: their equal...both didnt win...both losers. the totality of the information is worth considering, however.

[pussyface]

kg gets swept and people still talk about his passion and bla bla bla like thats his edge over guys like dirk. dirk never got swept...that shit is embarassing.

[Fillmoe]

mavs fans sucking that dirk dick as usuall and calling other people homers..... :lol

[PAWW]

Where's the "other" option?

[pussyface]

mavs fans sucking that dirk dick as usuall and calling other people homers..... :lol

unfortunately, there is plenty of cause to rip dirk due to his entirely unjordan/bird/wade like finals performance. that was dissapointing. it was not befitting of a player of dirk's stature. but to suggest his track winning for winning is on par with kg's as has been assumed throughout this thread, is totally false. its not supported by the facts, thats all.

[pussyface]

Where's the "other" option?

great point man... who the fuck wants to have one of the two best power forwards of this or any other generation on their team? great point man. fuck it, give me Gary Trent back. Hopefully the Mavs will just roll with Pops MensahBonsu here in the future. Keep the basketball points coming.

[jacobdrj]

Ask yourself this, and TRY to answer honestly...

Put KG on the Mavs last year... what happens?

Put Dirk on the Wolves last year... what happens?

I THINK, Dallas would have done no worse, and perhaps better.

I THINK, Mini would have been worse.

[monosylab1k]

Ask yourself this, and TRY to answer honestly...

Put KG on the Mavs last year... what happens?

Put Dirk on the Wolves last year... what happens?

I THINK, Dallas would have done no worse, and perhaps better.

I THINK, Mini would have been worse.

Dallas would have lost to San Antonio in the playoffs with KG.

[Amarelooms]

Ask yourself this, and TRY to answer honestly...

Put KG on the Mavs last year... what happens?

Put Dirk on the Wolves last year... what happens?

I THINK, Dallas would have done no worse, and perhaps better.

I THINK, Mini would have been worse.


Dumbest comment ever. Mavs would have lost to the Spurs and the Twolves would have probably been then 8th seed. KG gets stats but never when his team needs it....dude will never win.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Dumbest comment ever. Mavs would have lost to the Spurs and the Twolves would have probably been then 8th seed. KG gets stats but never when his team needs it....dude will never win.


T-wolves would have been an 8th seed? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ..they would have been lucky to reach 500. with that team and dirk.. look smart guy if the dirk was on the t-wolves he would get the KG treatment.. take the ball out of his hands and make the rest of the horrible Wolves beat you.. so you have the same problem.. KG is a better defender than dirk..so how in the hell would dirk make the wolves better?

[monosylab1k]

T-wolves would have been an 8th seed? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ..they would have been lucky to reach 500. with that team and dirk.. look smart guy if the dirk was on the t-wolves he would get the KG treatment.. take the ball out of his hands and make the rest of the horrible Wolves beat you.. so you have the same problem.. KG is a better defender than dirk..so how in the hell would dirk make the wolves better?

Maybe it has less to do with the talent surrounding these guys, and more to do with the effect they have on the talent around them.

KG has never made his teammates better, that's pretty much been proven through his entire career.

I'm not going to say that Dirk elevates the game of his teammates...but it does seem like the guys around Dirk play better with him on the court. You can say that Dirk has had more talent around him, but also, maybe Dirk works with the talent around him better than KG does...just a thought...

[monosylab1k]

T-wolves would have been an 8th seed? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ..they would have been lucky to reach 500.

btw, the Wolves didn't even come close to sniffing .500 with KG...hmmm "lucky to reach .500" with Dirk or "not even a prayer of reaching .500" with KG?

[mabber]

Dirk makes his teammates better just because he creates such a matchup problem. Spurs fans should realize that more than anyone. Dirk's teammates get the benefit of having someone on them (example...Duncan trying to guard Josh) because the Spurs have to put Bowen on Dirk. KG is a damn good player but he doesn't create the matchup problems that Dirk does...hence he doesn't make his teammates better by default. The Spurs would have beaten the Mavs w/KG (instead of Dirk) for that very reason alone.

[stretch]

Dirk makes his teammates better just because he creates such a matchup problem. Spurs fans should realize that more than anyone. Dirk's teammates get the benefit of having someone on them (example...Duncan trying to guard Josh) because the Spurs have to put Bowen on Dirk. KG is a damn good player but he doesn't create the matchup problems that Dirk does...hence he doesn't make his teammates better by default. The Spurs would have beaten the Mavs w/KG (instead of Dirk) for that very reason alone.
agreed. several coaches in the league have said that Dirk is one of, if not the most toughest guy to make a defensive game plan for, because of his versatility. he makes his teammates better much the same way Tim Duncan makes his teammates better. opposing defenses are so focused on stopping Duncan, that it allows for easy and open opportunities for guys like Parker and Ginobili.

[mavs>spurs2]

T-wolves would have been an 8th seed? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ..they would have been lucky to reach 500. with that team and dirk.. look smart guy if the dirk was on the t-wolves he would get the KG treatment.. take the ball out of his hands and make the rest of the horrible Wolves beat you.. so you have the same problem.. KG is a better defender than dirk..so how in the hell would dirk make the wolves better?



btw, the Wolves didn't even come close to sniffing .500 with KG...hmmm "lucky to reach .500" with Dirk or "not even a prayer of reaching .500" with KG?

:lmao LMAO i just noticed the hypocrisy of that statement.

[cheguevara]

Dirk makes his teammates better just because he creates such a matchup problem. Spurs fans should realize that more than anyone. Dirk's teammates get the benefit of having someone on them (example...Duncan trying to guard Josh) because the Spurs have to put Bowen on Dirk. KG is a damn good player but he doesn't create the matchup problems that Dirk does...hence he doesn't make his teammates better by default. The Spurs would have beaten the Mavs w/KG (instead of Dirk) for that very reason alone.

Now how in the hell does creating matchup problems make the teammates better????

that does not make sense. Put Dirk in the Wolvies instead of KG, and they would suck more than the knicks

[mavs>spurs2]

Now how in the hell does creating matchup problems make the teammates better????

that does not make sense. Put Dirk in the Wolvies instead of KG, and they would suck more than the knicks

Creating matchup problems causes teams to focus more on Dirk which opens things up for everyone else. Dirk does make his teammates better when he's on the court, but he's not the best at this. The perfect example would be Steve Nash.

[stretch]

Now how in the hell does creating matchup problems make the teammates better????

that does not make sense. Put Dirk in the Wolvies instead of KG, and they would suck more than the knicks

are you always this ignorant?

its the same way that matchup problems allowed Jordan to make his teammates better. he constantly drew double and triple teams and was able to find players open for easy shots and opportunities, like Steve Kerr and John Paxson. without him drawing those double and triple teams, those guys dont hit game winners in the finals. granted, Dirk is nowhere near Jordan's level, but he does draw a lot more than usual attention from opposing defense, which opens up the offense and allows for open lanes and shots for guys like Jason Terry and Josh Howard.

[exstatic]

If Dirk is such a matchup problem, why does KG own a career mark of 4.5 apg to Dirk's 2.5? If Dirk is such a premier rebounder, why is his career average 8.5 and KG's is 11.2? KG had three season where he averged more DEFENSIVE rebounds than Dirk did total boards.

Dirk's edges: FT%*, 3G%*
KG's edges: reb*, ast*, FG%, defense*

* dominant edge

[jacobdrj]

Well, you may dissagree, but "dumbest comment ever" status? Its comments like that that make colloquialisms meaningless...

Mini might have made it to the 8th seed, but I think Dallas would have had the 1st seed in the West, and San Anton wouldn't have even been an issue.

[mavs>spurs2]

I'll admit KG is better all-around, but I don't think he'd be a better fit in Dallas than Dirk. Then we wouldn't have a go to guy in crunch time, at least Dirk attempts to step up and make the big shot. The mavs would still be worse with KG instead of Dirk.

[Leetonidas]

I dunno about the Mavs losing to the Spurs if they had KG. KG and Tim can guard each other very well, and Tim was the one going into beast mode the whole series.

[stretch]

If Dirk is such a matchup problem, why does KG own a career mark of 4.5 apg to Dirk's 2.5? If Dirk is such a premier rebounder, why is his career average 8.5 and KG's is 11.2? KG had three season where he averged more DEFENSIVE rebounds than Dirk did total boards.

Dirk's edges: FT%*, 3G%*
KG's edges: reb*, ast*, FG%, defense*

* dominant edge
im not sure what assists and rebounds have to do with matchup problems. and im not sure who you are referring, but i never said anything about Dirk being a premier rebounder. although, when he wants to, he can be a very good rebounder. througout the playoffs, he was constantly crashing the boards, getting lots of key rebounds.

[Pistons < Spurs]

In my mind, it's not even close. I like Dirk and his game alot ... but there's no way I'd ever put him above KG.

[freedom&justice]

Dirk is a very good, very skilled player, but KG's the better player overall.

[monosylab1k]

As far as individual athleticism and talent, I don't think there's any question KG is better than Dirk, with the exception of shooting.

But i'd still rather have Dirk on my TEAM.

[Amarelooms]

http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc554/th_62798_dirk_365_060824_122_554lo.jpg (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=62798_dirk_365_060824_122_554lo.jpg)

[dirk4mvp]

Dude dropped a 47 piece last night. :fro

[Amarelooms]

Whenever Germany was in doubt against Angola, Dirk Nowitzki of the Dallas Mavericks seemed to have all the answers.
Nowitzki scored 47 points and grabbed 16 rebounds to lead Germany to a thrilling 108-103 triple-overtime triumph over Angola in Group B at the World Championship.

After its lone loss to Spain on Monday, Germany (4-1) defeated Panama on Wednesday before outlasting Angola (3-2) in the first triple-overtime contest in tournament history. The Germans clinched second place in Group B and Angola placed third.

This was the third contest this year where the teams combined for a tournament-high 211 points, matching United States' victories over Puerto Rico (111-100) and China (121-90).

Nowitzki buried a 3-pointer late in the first overtime and made two free throws to tie the game, 95-95, after the second. He dominated the third extra session, scoring 11 of Germany's 13 points.

"Everything that happens in a game like this is fun," Nowitzki said. "In a long tournament like this, you always need games that push the team. Hopefully, this is one of them."

Nowitzki made 13-of-29 shots from the floor and hit all 17 free throws. His 47 points is the fifth-highest single-game total in tournament history. Jae Hur of Korea scored 62 in 1990.

"What am I going to say that you didn't see out there?" German coach Dirk Bauermann said. "That's competitive greatness. He gives you your best when you need it most."

With 25 seconds left in the fourth quarter, Nowitzki found Mithat Demirel for a wide open 3-pointer to tie the game, 69-69.

Angola tried to win it in regulation but Milton Barros was called for charging with three seconds left.

Nowitzki took the game into his hands late in the first extra session, burying a 3-pointer from the left wing over Joaquim Gomes with one second remaining to tie the contest, 83-83.

Angola jumped to a 93-89 lead in the second overtime before Nowitzki made a dunk and Demirel hit a pair of free throws with 5.1 seconds left to tie the score. Barros missed a 3-pointer at the buzzer, prolonging the contest.

Nowitzki opened the third OT with a basket from the arc and three free throws with 2:52 left for a 101-95 edge. Olimpio Cipriano and Mingas made two foul shots apiece and Mingas nailed a jumper to trim the deficit to 103-101 with one minute remaining.

However, Nowitzki sealed the win with another 3-pointer and a pair of free throws in the final with 39 seconds


Yeah you homers are right...Dirk is so unclutch....

[dirk4mvp]

:tu

[dirk4mvp]

Yeah you homers are right...Dirk is so unclutch....

:lmao

[mavs>spurs2]

Good job Dirk......

[Bob Lanier]

I'd take Nowitzki. Garnett is a very low-impact player for the numbers he puts up.

[jacobdrj]

I just don't understand how you can view KG as non impact: the 1 time he had decent players around him in his whole career (04) he made scrubbs look like all stars. They were the next comming of the Big Three... the only reasons they didn't advance was because they were comming up against the greatest assembled foursome of all time (argueably) in Laker Uniforms, and Sam-I-Am (one of the 2 decent Timberwolves) was injured (because he is old).

Dirk proved himself as the real deal this past year's playoffs, but his complete lack of D is glaring, and he needs specific players around him to suceed, people to cover his flaws... KG just needs talent around him... plain and simple talent, which McHale has robbed him of his whole career (that and maybe having a half decent coach).

[confined]

ill take both please

[NBA Junkie]

Dirk is the more aggressive offensive player. Garnett is the better all-around player.

To say Garnett is not clutch is utter nonsense. Was nobody watching game 7 of the Wolves-Sacramento series a few years back? KG was dominant in the 4th quarter of that game and was the reason the Wolves advanced. He also won game 3 of that series with a clutch bucket that put them up 3 with under 10 seconds left.

KG has hit buzzer beating and GW shots in the past. In fact, his clutch shooting % is actually higher than Kobe Bryant's. The biggest reason he's not hitting clutch shots now is that everyone and their mother knows the ball is going to Garnett in those situations since there is no other player on that team who is capable of taking it. That, and coach Dwane Casey, did an extremely poor job of diagramming final possession plays for the Wolves in '06. The biggest reason why the Wolves fared so poorly in close games.

However, it has been alarming that he has disappeared in the 4th quarter of several games this past season. I attribute that to the fact that he is much easier to double-triple team which forces him out to the perimeter more than he would like. When Cassell was there in '04, defenses were forced to play a more honest defensive game which left KG with better % shots in the low post.

Simply put, Dirk has always had the better supporting cast. KG hasn't. It's too bad because had Stephon Marbury stayed in Minny, he and KG would have been the next Stockton and Malone. Then, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

[monosylab1k]

the only reasons they didn't advance was because they were comming up against the greatest assembled foursome of all time (argueably) in Laker Uniforms

the great foursome that bickered and fought and ripped the team apart from the inside and promptly got their asses kicked by a far less talented detroit team? that great foursome?

the Wolves should have murdered the Lakers that year. KG was awful in that series as well.

[monosylab1k]

It's too bad because had Stephon Marbury stayed in Minny, he and KG would have been the next Stockton and Malone. Then, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

you're joking, right?

stephon marbury?

KG could have been malone...stephon marbury has neither the intelligence nor the selflessness to be even remotely close to halfway as great as john stockton. Garnett had a far superior point guard to work with when he had Sam Cassell.

the greatest thing to happen to KG was getting rid of the most overrated, most cancerous player in the NBA today.

[mabber]

Dirk is the more aggressive offensive player. Garnett is the better all-around player.

To say Garnett is not clutch is utter nonsense. Was nobody watching game 7 of the Wolves-Sacramento series a few years back? KG was dominant in the 4th quarter of that game and was the reason the Wolves advanced. He also won game 3 of that series with a clutch bucket that put them up 3 with under 10 seconds left.

KG has hit buzzer beating and GW shots in the past. In fact, his clutch shooting % is actually higher than Kobe Bryant's. The biggest reason he's not hitting clutch shots now is that everyone and their mother knows the ball is going to Garnett in those situations since there is no other player on that team who is capable of taking it. That, and coach Dwane Casey, did an extremely poor job of diagramming final possession plays for the Wolves in '06. The biggest reason why the Wolves fared so poorly in close games.

However, it has been alarming that he has disappeared in the 4th quarter of several games this past season. I attribute that to the fact that he is much easier to double-triple team which forces him out to the perimeter more than he would like. When Cassell was there in '04, defenses were forced to play a more honest defensive game which left KG with better % shots in the low post.

Simply put, Dirk has always had the better supporting cast. KG hasn't. It's too bad because had Stephon Marbury stayed in Minny, he and KG would have been the next Stockton and Malone. Then, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

I agree, both KG & Dirk have been very clutch throughout their careers. But you can't be clutch and not have won a ring per most of the Spur posters. You just have to live with that if you're going to post on this board. Dirk had the most clutch play of the playoffs in game 7 vs. the Spurs and he's still not clutch to most of these Spur posters. Dirk had 3-4 game winning shots (including one in the playoffs) this season alone. Most of the Spur posters just hate Dallas and everything about it and can't think straight when it comes to analyzing a Mav player or anyone that hasn't won a ring.

Yep, Dirk has always had the better supporting cast. That was the only reason the Mavs beat the T-wolves in consecutive playoff series a few years back cuz both Dirk & KG were both equally good in those series. Nash & Finley were just better than Billups & Wally.

[Drachen]

After seeing him shoot, what was it, 98% for the series against us, and coupling that with his year, I have to go with Dirk on this one. Plus he's german, and I could talk to him. Oh, and I dont think there is as much "being a cancer" coming from dirks end as KG's.

[sickdsm]

Whenever Germany was in doubt against Angola, Dirk Nowitzki of the Dallas Mavericks seemed to have all the answers.
Nowitzki scored 47 points and grabbed 16 rebounds to lead Germany to a thrilling 108-103 triple-overtime triumph over Angola in Group B at the World Championship.

After its lone loss to Spain on Monday, Germany (4-1) defeated Panama on Wednesday before outlasting Angola (3-2) in the first triple-overtime contest in tournament history. The Germans clinched second place in Group B and Angola placed third.

This was the third contest this year where the teams combined for a tournament-high 211 points, matching United States' victories over Puerto Rico (111-100) and China (121-90).

Nowitzki buried a 3-pointer late in the first overtime and made two free throws to tie the game, 95-95, after the second. He dominated the third extra session, scoring 11 of Germany's 13 points.

"Everything that happens in a game like this is fun," Nowitzki said. "In a long tournament like this, you always need games that push the team. Hopefully, this is one of them."

Nowitzki made 13-of-29 shots from the floor and hit all 17 free throws. His 47 points is the fifth-highest single-game total in tournament history. Jae Hur of Korea scored 62 in 1990.

"What am I going to say that you didn't see out there?" German coach Dirk Bauermann said. "That's competitive greatness. He gives you your best when you need it most."

With 25 seconds left in the fourth quarter, Nowitzki found Mithat Demirel for a wide open 3-pointer to tie the game, 69-69.

Angola tried to win it in regulation but Milton Barros was called for charging with three seconds left.

Nowitzki took the game into his hands late in the first extra session, burying a 3-pointer from the left wing over Joaquim Gomes with one second remaining to tie the contest, 83-83.

Angola jumped to a 93-89 lead in the second overtime before Nowitzki made a dunk and Demirel hit a pair of free throws with 5.1 seconds left to tie the score. Barros missed a 3-pointer at the buzzer, prolonging the contest.

Nowitzki opened the third OT with a basket from the arc and three free throws with 2:52 left for a 101-95 edge. Olimpio Cipriano and Mingas made two foul shots apiece and Mingas nailed a jumper to trim the deficit to 103-101 with one minute remaining.

However, Nowitzki sealed the win with another 3-pointer and a pair of free throws in the final with 39 seconds


Yeah you homers are right...Dirk is so unclutch....


I didn't know Angola was a country, i thought it was a virus.


Do they have a flag and boundries and all that such?


I'm glad someone gave them a basketball to play with.




:lol

[dirk4mvp]

I didn't know Angola was a country, i thought it was a virus.


Do they have a flag and boundries and all that such?


I'm glad someone gave them a basketball to play with.




:lol

Is that your comeback? :td

[sickdsm]

the great foursome that bickered and fought and ripped the team apart from the inside and promptly got their asses kicked by a far less talented detroit team? that great foursome?

the Wolves should have murdered the Lakers that year. KG was awful in that series as well.


Let me remind you that the wolves took it to six games with their second leading scorer and no NBA quality pgs available.

[sickdsm]

you're joking, right?

stephon marbury?

KG could have been malone...stephon marbury has neither the intelligence nor the selflessness to be even remotely close to halfway as great as john stockton. Garnett had a far superior point guard to work with when he had Sam Cassell.

the greatest thing to happen to KG was getting rid of the most overrated, most cancerous player in the NBA today.


Steph can score and cares about it and has an ego.


KG can score but doesn't care about scoring, nor does he have an ego.


Great tandem.

[sickdsm]

Is that your comeback? :td


I scored the last 15 points in a game of 21 against my 14 yr old nephew.



Does that mean that i'm more clutch than Dirk?


Hell, even TMac's Spur game or Uncle Regg's Knick/Spike Lee choke job doesn't compare to that.



SickDSM>Reggie>Kobe>Tmac>Dirk.



I'll care when Angola is known more internationally as a power in basketball than a third world Jamacian Bobsled story.

[dirk4mvp]

I scored the last 15 points in a game of 21 against my 14 yr old nephew.



Does that mean that i'm more clutch than Dirk?


Hell, even TMac's Spur game or Uncle Regg's Knick/Spike Lee choke job doesn't compare to that.



SickDSM>Reggie>Kobe>Tmac>Dirk.



I'll care when Angola is known more internationally as a power in basketball than a third world Jamacian Bobsled story.

You can come 3rd in MVP voting 2 years in a row? You can lead a team to a Western Conf. Championship? Good job.

[sickdsm]

No. I'd probably win his league's MVP award up until i'm 50 yrs old, then its debateable.

If they had Western Conference's i'd lead them to the championship.


After all, you come in here with garbage about Angola, why isn' t his league the same thing?


Competition means nothing right?


You're just another Cosmo Kramer whooping 12 year old ass in Karate when it comes to clutch performances against Ebola.

[NBA Junkie]

you're joking, right?

stephon marbury?

KG could have been malone...stephon marbury has neither the intelligence nor the selflessness to be even remotely close to halfway as great as john stockton. Garnett had a far superior point guard to work with when he had Sam Cassell.

the greatest thing to happen to KG was getting rid of the most overrated, most cancerous player in the NBA today.

Were you even watching NBA basketball ten years ago? These two guys were showing lots of potential as a tandem. The Wolves compiled a 97-85 regular season record during the 2.5 seasons Marbury was there. Sure, the record doesn't look overly impressive. Keep in mind that these were two players who were barely out of their teens who were going through the growing pains of winning in the NBA. Had they continued playing together for several more years, the sky would have been the limit.

But, I understand your argument since you're basing your opinion of Marbury primarily on hindsight due to his recent woes with other teams. Marbury and Garnett had great on court chemistry. Something you wouldn't understand unless you followed the Wolves closely like I did during those years. Garnett never had that second star a team needs to get to the next level and neither did Marbury. Marbury was in the best situation of his career in Minnesota. Unfortunately, it was his jealousy of Garnett that got him out of Minnesota as he forced management to trade him or lose him to free agency with no compensation gained in return.

You have to be joking when you imply that losing Marbury was the best thing that happened to Garnett, correct? I mean, how does losing in the 1st round for seven straight years be the best thing that happened to Garnett?

[NBA Junkie]

After seeing him shoot, what was it, 98% for the series against us, and coupling that with his year, I have to go with Dirk on this one. Plus he's german, and I could talk to him. Oh, and I dont think there is as much "being a cancer" coming from dirks end as KG's.

KG is a cancer? really? when?

Let's get the record straight here. Garnett is unhappy with the direction the team is headed and rightfully so. Never once, has he gone to the media and publicly demanded a trade. All he stated in a recent interview, when asked about a trade, is that it may be in his best interest if the team doesn't improve over the final three years of his contract. He answered a pointed question honestly. It wasn't information he volunteered.

Garnett loves playing in Minnesota and wouldn't mind being a Timberwolve his whole career. Given the current state of the team, I don't see how he can realistically win an NBA title here. And, that, is where his frustration lies.

[Amarelooms]

KG will never win a title as long as he is the "go to man" on the team. His only chance is to join a team that has a player than can actually lead with him playing the supporting role. Hell he can't even make the playoffs...forget about title. Sad but true.

[NBA Junkie]

KG will never win a title as long as he is the "go to man" on the team. His only chance is to join a team that has a player than can actually lead with him playing the supporting role. Hell he can't even make the playoffs...forget about title. Sad but true.

That's just the style that Garnett plays. His biggest problem is that he's unselfish to a fault at times.

What you're saying has some truth to it. except your last sentence. When the Wolves had Cassell as a good second option in '04, Garnett did post career highs in PPG and REB/GM. But, it was Cassell who took and made the big shots in several of their close victories that year.

And, that's why I think Marbury would have made a big impact with the Wolves as he had the tendency to take over ballgames with his ability to hit the clutch shots and his ability to make teammates better with his passing. The problem with Marbury is that he can't decide from one game to the next if he want's to be a 2-guard or a true point guard. It's his biggest weakness, IMO. He's definitely proven that he can do both.

[freedom&justice]

KG is a cancer? really? when?

Let's get the record straight here. Garnett is unhappy with the direction the team is headed and rightfully so. Never once, has he gone to the media and publicly demanded a trade. All he stated in a recent interview, when asked about a trade, is that it may be in his best interest if the team doesn't improve over the final three years of his contract. He answered a pointed question honestly. It wasn't information he volunteered.

Garnett loves playing in Minnesota and wouldn't mind being a Timberwolve his whole career. Given the current state of the team, I don't see how he can realistically win an NBA title here. And, that, is where his frustration lies.

Well said. KG has gotta be one of the most loyal superstars out there today. It's nice to see that; team loyalty has become too damn rare.

[Obstructed_View]

Garnett is a role player. Dirk is a superstar.

[NBA Junkie]

The greatest role player to ever win league MVP!

[Obstructed_View]

The greatest role player to ever win league MVP!
It's the only thing he's won.

[NBA Junkie]

It's the only thing he's won.

Poor Dirk is still pitching a shutout! :lol

[dirk4mvp]

Poor Dirk is still pitching a shutout! :lol

WCC? Kg doesn't have one. Never will either. And Dirk has a 3-point trophy :elephant

[mavs>spurs2]

KG's career is a waste of talent. Never had anyone around him to help. Really this argument is pointless.

[Obstructed_View]

Poor Dirk is still pitching a shutout! :lol
There's something to hang your hat on!

[dirk4mvp]

The hat stand broke.

[Zunni]

WCC? Kg doesn't have one. Never will either. And Dirk has a 3-point trophy :elephant
Second place is first loser. :drunk

[mavs>spurs2]

Second place is first loser. :drunk
:depressed

[dirk4mvp]

Second place is first loser. :drunk

So what are the Spurs?










*awaits history lesson*

[monosylab1k]

Were you even watching NBA basketball ten years ago? These two guys were showing lots of potential as a tandem. The Wolves compiled a 97-85 regular season record during the 2.5 seasons Marbury was there. Sure, the record doesn't look overly impressive. Keep in mind that these were two players who were barely out of their teens who were going through the growing pains of winning in the NBA. Had they continued playing together for several more years, the sky would have been the limit.

But, I understand your argument since you're basing your opinion of Marbury primarily on hindsight due to his recent woes with other teams. Marbury and Garnett had great on court chemistry. Something you wouldn't understand unless you followed the Wolves closely like I did during those years. Garnett never had that second star a team needs to get to the next level and neither did Marbury. Marbury was in the best situation of his career in Minnesota. Unfortunately, it was his jealousy of Garnett that got him out of Minnesota as he forced management to trade him or lose him to free agency with no compensation gained in return.

You have to be joking when you imply that losing Marbury was the best thing that happened to Garnett, correct? I mean, how does losing in the 1st round for seven straight years be the best thing that happened to Garnett?

Which is why the year after Marbury leaves Minnesota, the Wolves went on to win a then franchise high amount of wins. With a young Chauncey Billups and Terrell Brandon running point for them.

Not to mention how the Nets went to the Finals the year after Marbury, and the Suns made it to the WCF the year after (both teams being miserably bad the year before with the great Stephon). The dude needs to go play for And 1, because as talented as he is, he has no clue what team basketball is about.

If Marbury stuck around Minnesota, they wouldn't have lost in the first round seven years straight, because there's no way in hell a guy like Stephon Marbury can be a significant member of an NBA team that makes the playoffs seven years straight.

[Zunni]

So what are the Spurs?










*awaits history lesson*
Only '99 can really be considered "history", since key components from both '03 and '05 remain. Then again, it's better to have "history" than to have none...

[dirk4mvp]

Only '99 can really be considered "history", since key components from both '03 and '05 remain. Then again, it's better to have "history" than to have none...


And how long did it take you to come up with that?

[BUMP]

So what are the Spurs?










*awaits history lesson*

:lol

[Brad Sham]

And how long did it take you to come up with that?

dirk4mvp avoids the pressure, steps up, throws..............

touchdown cowboys.

[dirk4mvp]

Never cared for Brad.

[Brad Sham]

Never cared for Brad.

........and thats just too easy

[dirk4mvp]

:td

[dirk4mvp]

Brad Sham=Zunni

[Brad Sham]

Brad Sham=Zunni
.........and a mental blunder by Newman will cost the Cowboys good field position. this wont sit well with Parcells

[dirk4mvp]

*throws challenge flag*

[Zunni]

And how long did it take you to come up with that?
About 30 seconds. It's not like I'm up against Artistotle here....

[JealousOnesNV]

KG
PPG 21.8
RPG 12.7
APG 4.1
SPG 1.37
BPG 1.41
FG% .526
FT% .810
3P% .267
MPG 38.9
Dirk
PPG 26.6
RPG 9.0
APG 2.8
SPG .72
BPG 1.02
FG% .480
FT% .901
3P% .406
MPG 38.1
Its a close call....Really depends on what type of player you like. Personally I would take KG. IMO KG is the better passer, rebounder and defender. Dirk has always had a much better supporting cast(top 5 point guard and role players who would be number one options on most teams) Sam doesnt get hurt in 04 the Wolves woulda beat LA and may have beat the Pistons.

[jacobdrj]

the great foursome that bickered and fought and ripped the team apart from the inside and promptly got their asses kicked by a far less talented detroit team? that great foursome?

the Wolves should have murdered the Lakers that year. KG was awful in that series as well.
Pistons overall were infinately more deep, and younger, which made for less injurries. Not to mention that all the pieces fit perfectly.

[freedom&justice]

Pistons overall were infinately more deep, and younger, which made for less injurries. Not to mention that all the pieces fit perfectly.

Not to mention they were hungrier and they had huge chips on their shoulders because everyone but their own fans were saying they were gonna get swept.

[Brad Sham]

Not to mention they were hungrier and they had huge chips on their shoulders because everyone but their own fans were saying they were gonna get swept.

.........and the redskins have come out with a chip on their shoulder. the Cowboys simply need to pick it up or they will simply go home

[George Gervin's Afro]

About 30 seconds. It's not like I'm up against Artistotle here....



:lol

[NBA Junkie]

Damn, I haven't checked in for nearly 14 hours, and a Cowboys-Redskins game has broken out.

[dirk4mvp]

About 30 seconds. It's not like I'm up against Artistotle here....

Mavs>Spurs :fro

[Brad Sham]

Damn, I haven't checked in for nearly 14 hours, and a Cowboys-Redskins game has broken out.

hahaha im not a great lip reader but i can tell Coach parcells is clearly frustrated. that is the seventh sack given up by the Dallas offensive line today. they need to do better.

[NBA Junkie]

Which is why the year after Marbury leaves Minnesota, the Wolves went on to win a then franchise high amount of wins. With a young Chauncey Billups and Terrell Brandon running point for them.

Not to mention how the Nets went to the Finals the year after Marbury, and the Suns made it to the WCF the year after (both teams being miserably bad the year before with the great Stephon). The dude needs to go play for And 1, because as talented as he is, he has no clue what team basketball is about.

If Marbury stuck around Minnesota, they wouldn't have lost in the first round seven years straight, because there's no way in hell a guy like Stephon Marbury can be a significant member of an NBA team that makes the playoffs seven years straight.

Then we disagree. The one year Garnett had a pure point guard with a scorers mentality, the Wolves reached the Western Conference Finals.

There's is no way in hell the Wolves are eliminated seven consecutive years if Marbs sticks around. I don't care how many games the Wolves won the year after Marbury left with Terrell Brandon. Brandon, while a decent shooter, was not a cold blooded competitor like Marbury is in close ballgames. Shit, the dude never got 3 NBA teams past the 1st round of the playoffs in his entire career. Correction, once in his rookie year, but only because he was backing up Mark Price in Cleveland.

You're basically being ignorant only because you're basing all of your opinions of Marbury on 20/20 hindsight. But, what should I expect from a Mavericks fan who's masquerading as an Atlanta Hawks fan. Nobody's buying it, BTW.

[NBA Junkie]

hahaha im not a great lip reader but i can tell Coach parcells is clearly frustrated. that is the seventh sack given up by the Dallas offensive line today. they need to do better.

I haven't seen any of the game as of yet. How's TO faring? Better yet, has Parcells managed not to strangle him?

[Brad Sham]

I haven't seen any of the game as of yet. How's TO faring? Better yet, has Parcells managed not to strangle him?

Bledsoe has had a hard time standing up back there today. not a great day for the dallas O-line. these guys are gonna be in Parcell's doghouse tommorow. lets just say that Monday is not gonna be fun for them

[Brad Sham]

.........but they have managed to hit open spots in the flats. that seems to be a plus

[NBA Junkie]

Bledsoe has had a hard time standing up back there today. not a great day for the dallas O-line. these guys are gonna be in Parcell's doghouse tommorow. lets just say that Monday is not gonna be fun for them

Yeah, it's gotta be that early start time. Most NFL games don't kick off until 1 P.M EST on Sundays.

[Eminem]

Lions this year. :fro

[Zunni]

Mavs>Spurs :fro
Spurs > Kings. BFD. No one will remember either in 5 years. The public only remembers the NBA champion.

[MarkCuban]

Spurs > Kings. BFD. No one will remember either in 5 years. The public only remembers the winner.

and that was Dallas :elephant

[monosylab1k]

There's is no way in hell the Wolves are eliminated seven consecutive years if Marbs sticks around.

Exactly. They'd never make the playoffs seven consecutive years.


I don't care how many games the Wolves won the year after Marbury left with Terrell Brandon. Brandon, while a decent shooter, was not a cold blooded competitor like Marbury is in close ballgames.

Never said he was that great...but he was able to win more games than Marbury ever could with the Wolves. May not mean much, but it's gotta mean something.


Shit, the dude never got 3 NBA teams past the 1st round of the playoffs in his entire career. Correction, once in his rookie year, but only because he was backing up Mark Price in Cleveland.

And exactly how many times has Marbury advanced a team past round one? Fuck, how many times has he gotten a team into the playoffs period?


You're basically being ignorant only because you're basing all of your opinions of Marbury on 20/20 hindsight.

How totally ignorant of me...i base my opinions on those little bastards known as FACTS...fuck....

Not to mention the fact that I've never liked the guy's game to begin with. He's a short Antoine Walker...puts up numbers that appear to mean something, but when you watch him play an actual game, you see just how empty all his points and assists actually are...maybe one day when he gets humbled and realizes he isn't the star player that he thinks he is, he could possibly be a decent role player on a good team.

Oh hey how's his current gig in New York going? Hindsight?


But, what should I expect from a Mavericks fan who's masquerading as an Atlanta Hawks fan. Nobody's buying it, BTW.

Better than being a dumbshit masquerading as a guy with a clue about the NBA. Nobody's buying you either, BTW.

P.S. Looks like the Wolves are interested in getting "Antoine Walker minus 6 inches" back. I'm sure you're masturbating gleefully over the thought. I'd bet my life that the Wolves suck complete ass if they get him back....but then again, how would that be any different than what they currently are doing?

[mavs>spurs2]

Exactly. They'd never make the playoffs seven consecutive years.



Never said he was that great...but he was able to win more games than Marbury ever could with the Wolves. May not mean much, but it's gotta mean something.



And exactly how many times has Marbury advanced a team past round one? Fuck, how many times has he gotten a team into the playoffs period?



How totally ignorant of me...i base my opinions on those little bastards known as FACTS...fuck....

Not to mention the fact that I've never liked the guy's game to begin with. He's a short Antoine Walker...puts up numbers that appear to mean something, but when you watch him play an actual game, you see just how empty all his points and assists actually are...maybe one day when he gets humbled and realizes he isn't the star player that he thinks he is, he could possibly be a decent role player on a good team.

Oh hey how's his current gig in New York going? Hindsight?



Better than being a dumbshit masquerading as a guy with a clue about the NBA. Nobody's buying you either, BTW.

P.S. Looks like the Wolves are interested in getting "Antoine Walker minus 6 inches" back. I'm sure you're masturbating gleefully over the thought. I'd bet my life that the Wolves suck complete ass if they get him back....but then again, how would that be any different than what they currently are doing?

Everything he said is true. I would die if I saw Stephon Marbury in a Mavericks uniform. He is a team killer.

[sickdsm]

Then we disagree. The one year Garnett had a pure point guard with a scorers mentality, the Wolves reached the Western Conference Finals.

There's is no way in hell the Wolves are eliminated seven consecutive years if Marbs sticks around. I don't care how many games the Wolves won the year after Marbury left with Terrell Brandon. Brandon, while a decent shooter, was not a cold blooded competitor like Marbury is in close ballgames. Shit, the dude never got 3 NBA teams past the 1st round of the playoffs in his entire career. Correction, once in his rookie year, but only because he was backing up Mark Price in Cleveland.

You're basically being ignorant only because you're basing all of your opinions of Marbury on 20/20 hindsight. But, what should I expect from a Mavericks fan who's masquerading as an Atlanta Hawks fan. Nobody's buying it, BTW.


Pure point guard with a shooter's mentality?


Isn't that a combo guard? Farthest thing you can get away from a true point guard?

[Texas_Ranger]

In last two years Dirk was better in my opinion, but if we look the carrer stats then I will say KG.

[dirk4mvp]

In last two years Dirk was better in my opinion, but if we look the carrer stats they I will say KG.


:tu

[NBA Junkie]

Exactly. They'd never make the playoffs seven consecutive years.

They did make the playoffs the two full seasons that Marbury played in Minnesota. They nearly upset the heavily favored Sonics in the 1st round before bowing out in five games.




Never said he was that great...but he was able to win more games than Marbury ever could with the Wolves. May not mean much, but it's gotta mean something.

Winning seasons are fine and the Wolves were solid, but I don't believe anyone associated with the NBA took the Wolves seriously as contenders for an NBA title during Brandon's reign in Minny.




And exactly how many times has Marbury advanced a team past round one? Fuck, how many times has he gotten a team into the playoffs period?

While I can't argue this point you have made, I do have a legit question to pose for you. How many of those teams that Marbury went to after Minny had an all-star like Kevin Garnett playing beside him? Now you see, in Minnesota, he had that second player in Garnett. The reason you didn't see immediate success in Minnesota is that both players were barely out of their teens when they broke into the league together. How many young tandems like that are going to achieve immediate success right off the bat? Even Jordan and Pippen as well as Kobe and Shaq had to undergo the growing pains of playing together before reaching championship status. Perhaps it's silly of me to make these comparisons, but NBA championship teams are usually built around two star players, and the Wolves certainly had the building blocks in place for them to potentially get there.




How totally ignorant of me...i base my opinions on those little bastards known as FACTS...fuck....

Not to mention the fact that I've never liked the guy's game to begin with. He's a short Antoine Walker...puts up numbers that appear to mean something, but when you watch him play an actual game, you see just how empty all his points and assists actually are...maybe one day when he gets humbled and realizes he isn't the star player that he thinks he is, he could possibly be a decent role player on a good team.

Oh hey how's his current gig in New York going? Hindsight?

You present a good argument here when you suggest that his points and assists are hollow. But, you have to realize that he is doing it in these venues with the misguided belief that he can be the #1 star on these teams. It's exactly the reason he wanted out of Minnesota in the first place-he did not want to play second fiddle to Kevin Garnett. He also wanted out because the new collective bargaining agreement wouldn't allow for him to make Garnett like money. In short, it was his overblown ego that ultimately led to his trade out of Minnesota. That being said, the Wolves had him playing as a true point guard, but it was something he did reluctantly due to the fact that he didn't want to be a second fiddle on the team. Look at his PPG per game while in Minny. During the 2.5 seasons he spent up north, his highest PPG average was 17.7, but the assists were well over 8.5 a game. He wasn't even the leading scorer on those Wolves teams during those years he spent in Minnesota. Tom Gugliotta and Kevin Garnett were. I honestly think that if Marbury could've accepted his role as second fiddle in Minnesota, him and Garnett could've achieved deep playoff success. I'm not saying championship success since the West was strong with great teams during that time, but definitely the potential was there where the Wolves weren't routinely knocked out in the 1st round due to the inferior talent they had during the post-Marbury years. Now I was a season ticket holder during that era and there were many games that stood out that convinced me that Marbury and Garnett could click at a high level. These 4 games were the ones that stand out the most as they were played versus solid teams from 1998-1999 before the trade:

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1997&b=19980407&tm=MIN

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1997&b=19980411&tm=MIN

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1998&b=19990217&tm=MIN

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1998&b=19990221&tm=MIN

Notice that in these games, that not only was Marbury getting his points, but he is actually tallying high assist totals, while a few other players (mainly Garnett) chipped in with high point totals of their own. There are many other games I didn't illustrate where he had high assist totals , but didn't even score over double digits in a few of those games by taking lesser shots. That's what I meant when I stated that the Wolves were trying to groom him as a true point guard, but at the same time having the capability to take over games with his scoring as well.




Better than being a dumbshit masquerading as a guy with a clue about the NBA. Nobody's buying you either, BTW.

Fine by me. I don't claim to be an expert of the NBA, but I'd like to think that I have enough knowledge of the game to be able to contribute to threads. I don't expect anyone to agree with everything I say. What would be the fun in participating in a forum if everything was agreed upon? If calling me names makes you feel better, feel free. I've got a thick enough skin to take it.


P.S. Looks like the Wolves are interested in getting "Antoine Walker minus 6 inches" back. I'm sure you're masturbating gleefully over the thought. I'd bet my life that the Wolves suck complete ass if they get him back....but then again, how would that be any different than what they currently are doing?

Frankly, I wouldn't want Marbury back at this point. He burned too many bridges on his way out of Minnesota for me to accept him as a Timberwolve again. Now, all I was really intimating was an opinion based on what I saw from Garnett and Marbury as teammates in Minnesota. I honestly believed that Minnesota was Marbury's perfect opportunity for success as he would've had the second star to take pressure off of him and vice versa for KG. Frankly, it was his trade from Minnesota that caused his downward spiral as he had the belief that he should be a teams main star instead of a solid role playing star like he was in Minny. I think if he would have had his head screwed on straight and saw that, he and KG would've been a dynamic 1-2 punch that Wolves fans could've gotten excited about. I, along with many other Wolves fans can't help but wonder what might've been.

I apologize if this got lengthy, but I just needed to get my side of the story out. I don't even expect agreement from you over my opinions, I just needed to air them out.

Thanks for the debate!

[monosylab1k]

I apologize if this got lengthy, but I just needed to get my side of the story out. I don't even expect agreement from you over my opinions, I just needed to air them out.

Thanks for the debate!

No problem. I just really never liked Marbury and still don't. He's a guy with all sorts of talent that pisses it all away with his selfish mentality, in my opinion. If Marbury was indeed a team player then I would readily agree with you that he and Garnett could have been an incredibly successful duo. But he's not at all a team player, and that was my whole point. And I don't mean to get into insulting people, but I perceived you taking a shot at me rather than debating about Marbury, etc., so I took a shot back at you. This is an internet forum so I figure it's all in fun and nothing is taken too seriously, which it wasn't, so it's all good. I'll look forward to a future debate. good times.

[sandeepgm]

For the guy who said dirk will never make it to the finals or win again, i am pretty convinced you are going to be wrong.

That said i am still disappointed with dirk. Dirk has been no timmy for us. This year he was pretty good. I mean he can go for 50's quite a few times but i honestly wonder how much control he has over the game when he is not shooting so well. Atleast so far he has been a rhythm player.

He can rebound fairly well but not like ben wallace or a few others. He has improved his passing but since dallas has so many isolation plays assists as a statistic doesnt show a lot. Still he is not the best passer out there too.

he has improved his defense tries to contest but he is not physically as skilled as garnett there.

In comparison with KG, i would take KG over dirk if the team had a manu or even ray allen. KG was so hyped when he came into the league and his stats have backed the hype. However he is not been a natural leader and been very defferential. If his team mates are so piss poor what is KG doing racking up all these assist numbers?

I believe part of kg's problem was he never could be eased into a leader, there was no david or any senior guy to show him the ropes, to ease him into the limelight. As a result we are stuck with a powder blowing, tongue dropping, hand clapping man-child superstar. he works hard, plays defense, pads all the stats and usually puts up 23/12/5 and there will be a line saying--garnett scored his first 20 points in the 1st 3 quarters and he was 1/5 in the fourth as his teammates couldnt find him. Sportswriters are always kind to the people they hype up a lot cause they dont want to appear wrong do they?

No matter what lebron does, they will never diss him cause they hyped him. For his perceived worth dirk has overacheived and KG underachieved. I am sure dirk is improving and i want him to see him becoming a better floor leader, making his team mates better and a better defender.

[sandeepgm]

For the guy who said dirk will never make it to the finals or win again, i am pretty convinced you are going to be wrong.

That said i am still disappointed with dirk. Dirk has been no timmy for us. This year he was pretty good. I mean he can go for 50's quite a few times but i honestly wonder how much control he has over the game when he is not shooting so well. Atleast so far he has been a rhythm player.

He can rebound fairly well but not like ben wallace or a few others. He has improved his passing but since dallas has so many isolation plays assists as a statistic doesnt show a lot. Still he is not the best passer out there too.

he has improved his defense tries to contest but he is not physically as skilled as garnett there.

In comparison with KG, i would take KG over dirk if the team had a manu or even ray allen. KG was so hyped when he came into the league and his stats have backed the hype. However he is not been a natural leader and been very defferential. If his team mates are so piss poor what is KG doing passing the ball a lot and racking up all these assist numbers?

I believe part of kg's problem was he never could be eased into a leader, there was no david or any senior guy to show him the ropes, to ease him into the limelight. As a result we are stuck with a powder blowing, tongue dropping, hand clapping man-child superstar. he works hard, plays defense, pads all the stats and usually puts up 23/12/5 and there will be a line saying--garnett scored his first 20 points in the 1st 3 quarters and he was 1/5 in the fourth as his teammates couldnt find him. Sportswriters are always kind to the people they hype up a lot cause they dont want to appear wrong do they?

No matter what lebron does, they will never diss him cause they hyped him. For his perceived worth dirk has overacheived and KG underachieved. I am sure dirk is improving and i want him to see him becoming a better floor leader, making his team mates better and a better defender.

[dirk4mvp]

For the guy who said dirk will never make it to the finals or win again, i am pretty convinced you are going to be wrong.

That said i am still disappointed with dirk. Dirk has been no timmy for us. This year he was pretty good. I mean he can go for 50's quite a few times but i honestly wonder how much control he has over the game when he is not shooting so well. Atleast so far he has been a rhythm player.

He can rebound fairly well but not like ben wallace or a few others. He has improved his passing but since dallas has so many isolation plays assists as a statistic doesnt show a lot. Still he is not the best passer out there too.

he has improved his defense tries to contest but he is not physically as skilled as garnett there.

In comparison with KG, i would take KG over dirk if the team had a manu or even ray allen. KG was so hyped when he came into the league and his stats have backed the hype. However he is not been a natural leader and been very defferential. If his team mates are so piss poor what is KG doing racking up all these assist numbers?

I believe part of kg's problem was he never could be eased into a leader, there was no david or any senior guy to show him the ropes, to ease him into the limelight. As a result we are stuck with a powder blowing, tongue dropping, hand clapping man-child superstar. he works hard, plays defense, pads all the stats and usually puts up 23/12/5 and there will be a line saying--garnett scored his first 20 points in the 1st 3 quarters and he was 1/5 in the fourth as his teammates couldnt find him. Sportswriters are always kind to the people they hype up a lot cause they dont want to appear wrong do they?

No matter what lebron does, they will never diss him cause they hyped him. For his perceived worth dirk has overacheived and KG underachieved. I am sure dirk is improving and i want him to see him becoming a better floor leader, making his team mates better and a better defender.